This is a hard subject and is probably a minefield and I know it's going to involve privacy issues and even legal matters so if people can just stick to the facts and the law then I'd sincerely appreciate it.

The problem is that a friend of mine has died today, he lived a quiet life in reality, however he has a hidden side to him which I suspected but never pried into. All the details of this private life are in his diaries on his computer. In addition to that there are private emails on his ISP waiting for him to collect and he has a number of friends on instant messaging programs which need to be told of his passing.

My friend trusted me with his passwords and login details - he wasn't very technologically minded and I often helped him. Without thinking and with good intentions I logged on as him to start informing his friends of his passing and also (probably stupidly I know) looked at his emails to see if anyone had been trying to contact him through that. Obviously I have come across friends and information which I am 100% sure his family and friends do not know of and probably don't want to know.

What I may or may not have read I will not tell anyone and I intend to do nothing but good, but I feel I have his memory to protect. So what do I do or what can I do (within the law) to organise his online affairs and ensure that the impact of this 'double life' does not have a detrimental effect on his memory?

Can't the solicitors deal with it?? It would be a big burden for you to carry..:confused:

My deepest sympathies too on the loss of your friend.

if you do not want his family to find out would it not be best ti inform his friends after the funeral so as they cannot turn up and possibly upset the family... if not i would do what shiesh suggests and get the solicitors to deal with it.

my thoughts are with you for your loss.

Perhaps it should be the solictors who deal with it - but do they have a duty to the family or to the person who has died? I'm probably jumping the gun with this but at times like this thinking clearly doesn't happen.

I'd be tempted to go with what Shiesh has suggested - give the details to the solicitors who are dealing with probate and let them handle it.

If this isn't appropriate, then maybe you just maintain the firewalls he set up in his life; you just tell people what's happened, no more, no less, and that's that. You don't tell anyone of the existence of anyone else on e-mail or messenger, so that the different aspects of this person's life are still isolated from each other.

The one area I would be VERY careful with is deleting anything. You've not said anything about the nature of your friend's 'dual life' but if it's anything that might be construed as legally challenging, so to say (and no disrespect meant here) then if you deleted things that were later required for evidence in a legal proceeding then you could be up before the beak.

His PC is part of his estate, which means that someone - probably a relative - will be able to get it. If there are things on there that might cause embarrassment then again take care - if the data is legally dodgy even taking a copy and deleting it from the PC might be construed as legally compromising.

If it is iffy, you DEFINITELY need to get legal advice.

Also, it's possible that other people are aware of his 'alternative life' if you are.

Sorry this is sort of wooly - it's a messy area.

Joe

Originally posted by savbaby
if you do not want his family to find out would it not be best ti inform his friends after the funeral so as they cannot turn up and possibly upset the family...

His friends are not going to turn up - they are from all over the world and some I assume are only aquiantences he met online - it's just out of courtesy that I'm informing them.

In your position I would sleep on it. What you have to bear in mind is that whatever happens you will almost certainly offend someone here, however I would say your duty here is to your friends memory. Do what you think is for the best and what you think your friend would have wanted. If it does turn out that you feel the best thing would be tell the family all then remember that they may not be in the best frame of mind to recieve 'bad' news straigt away and you may be better off leaving things till after the initial shock and numbness has worn off.

I lost a friend in a motorcycle accident several years ago now so I know how awfull it can be and my deepest sympathies to you and the friends family...

Originally posted by JoePritchard
if it's anything that might be construed as legally challenging, so to say (and no disrespect meant here) then if you deleted things that were later required for evidence in a legal proceeding then you could be up before the beak.

His PC is part of his estate, which means that someone - probably a relative - will be able to get it. If there are things on there that might cause embarrassment then again take care - if the data is legally dodgy even taking a copy and deleting it from the PC might be construed as legally compromising.



As far as I am aware it's just to do with his relationships and friendships if there was of course anything legally questionable I'm not going to touch it without legal advice. However that said, good point and thanks - I'm actually going to hold doing anything now I think!

As for his PC - yes it's part of his Estate but what about the data on it - does the family have the right to view it? I've a feeling that the PC may be left to me in the will... but can the family have the right to the data?

Originally posted by torin8
His friends are not going to turn up - they are from all over the world and some I assume are only aquiantences he met online - it's just out of courtesy that I'm informing them. let his family bury him,what is the point of informing people who are not going to turn up, what ever secrets he had should be allowed to go to the grave with him,at the end of the day if you were such a good friend you wouldnt have to come to a forum to ask??? whats the best thing to do.
:(

Put it this way ...a family member of mine is missing...no-one knows where he went, where he is etc etc...he has now been missing for over 10 years..no body nothing, no contact nothing!!

His parents and close family members have suffered the turmoil all these years of not knowing...and maybe not ever knowing what happened to him....

I am sorry if this sounds blunt but at least his family knows what became of their loved one even if some contacts on the internet don't!!!

As regards his 'dual' life status...there is always a bit of 'scandel' in every family...whether it's on the surface or you have to dig a bit deeper in the past for it...it will be there!!

Don't be too hard on yourself eh!!

Just forget what you know for now... and answer any questions honestly from what knowledge you had PRIOR to his death...then you cannot be held responsible if anything comes to light at a later date!!

Good Luck

:)

Originally posted by JoePritchard

If this isn't appropriate, then maybe you just maintain the firewalls he set up in his life; you just tell people what's happened, no more, no less, and that's that. You don't tell anyone of the existence of anyone else on e-mail or messenger, so that the different aspects of this person's life are still isolated from each other.

Joe

Sleep on it agreed, but this advice would be an advisable course of action.

For consistancy of integrity of the departed.

I get the impression that you are worried as of a professional/work capacity.

If so, I imagine data protection holds you legally to secracy.

If not, please ignore my last 2 comments.

Problems can solve themselves with no action also ;)

I'm very sorry to read that you've lost a good friend. But at least you know what has happened to him. Online friends can just vanish. And they often do. For those who were their chat buddies it can be very puzzling and hurtful.

People may say "well, it's not like a "real" friend vanishing". But it is... i think his online friends will be very grateful that you're taking the time and trouble to let them know what's happened. You will have solved a mystery that may have been nagging at them.

Other than that, if you can make sure that no-one else can get into the private files at least for the time being, I think you should. Immediately after a bereavement is not the time to be finding out unknown things about someone you love.

Once things have settled down and the estate is settled you'll have time to consider the next steps. But think long and hard before you do anything at all. You've lost a friend too, you may not be thinking quite straight at this time either. Take care of yourself too. Don't delete anything but equally there is no onus on you to tell anything you've found out clandestinely either. "wise heads keep a still tongue" as someone or other said!!

Take care and good luck.

Torin8, this is very sad, my sympathy is with you. This must feel quite a burden for you and I can see why you have asked for help and advice.

Don't feel you have to rush into making a decision. Take time to grieve for your friend.

Once you have told someone something, you can't take it back.

Speak to a legal expert - you don't have to mention any names - and then you may be clearer about how to proceed.

If I had a friend I trusted with a 'secret' part of my life, then I would hope they would respect that confidentiality long after I was gone.

Originally posted by roughy101
let his family bury him,what is the point of informing people who are not going to turn up, what ever secrets he had should be allowed to go to the grave with him,at the end of the day if you were such a good friend you wouldnt have to come to a forum to ask??? whats the best thing to do.
:(

What kind of a friend would YOU be if you wouldn't inform other friends if someone died!!! Yes they might not turn up to his funeral, but its still polite to let people know, even if they are just online friends they may still care about him just as much. :rant:
I believe Torin was not asking whether or not to reveal the secrets this person had, but how much could he do within the law to let people know of his passing!

Originally posted by roughy101
let his family bury him,what is the point of informing people who are not going to turn up, what ever secrets he had should be allowed to go to the grave with him,at the end of the day if you were such a good friend you wouldnt have to come to a forum to ask??? whats the best thing to do.
:(

I hope you don't have to deal with a similar situation, not informing someones online friends would be a perverse decision IMO.

Torin - if the PC is left to you, then the data on it becomes yours as well. It's up to you then what if any data you pass on to his family. But if there's no need for them to know and it would only cause distress then I'd say don't pass it on.

i just wanted to add this. A friend of mine and a close friend of my SO was killed in a car accident a while ago now. She was an active member of an online community and everyone was upset to hear that she had died, not explaining why she had stopped posting was and couldn't have been considered. In fact there were more people at her funeral from that community than anyone else, and her parents and brother posted on the site to thank everyone for the memories of good times that they had posted in the rememberance thread

page 6 of the remembrance thread (http://www.planetjitsu.com/viewtopic.php?t=11719&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90) if anyone is interested.
[/edit]

Why did your friend trust you with the password? Wasn't it also just in case of his sudden passing - so that you could contact his cyber-buddies, and inform them he is dead.

My advice would be to do exactly that. Then log off permanently. Immediate family do not need to be informed - this was a private part of his life, and does not need sharing with surviving relatives.

My condolances on the loss of your friend.

Thanks to everyone who has read and also to those commented and offered advice. There are certainly some great people on here who do offer some valuable wisdom which I will of course be adhering to.

For the moment with regard to his online friends I aim to try and inform as many as I can (if I was in their position I would want to know). The rest (including his emails) I have left with the ISP until I get further advice. For the moment (until I can contact his solictors / executors) I do not have access to his machine so unfortunately I can't secure it, others may know the password and have access but that is not in my hands to control so what will be will be there I guess.

If people do have more valid advice then please still contribute, I've had a little look around the internet and there isn't much about on this and I guess others may be in a similar situation if not today then perhaps in the future.

there was a case recently where a soldier killed in iraq had not left his password for his hotmail account with anyone.
His parents took them to court in order to get access to the account as they would not give them the password, they won.

Originally posted by Cyclone
His parents took them to court in order to get access to the account as they would not give them the password, they won.

I woudln't want my parents getting access to my E-mail account, if I wanted them to access it I would give them the passowrd.
Why do parents always assume they have to right to anything associated with their children, like the right to decide if they die or not, the right to decide if organs are taken, the right to get access to personal information, the right to choose who gets what of the estate ?
It's like you can't be an independant person, no matter what you want they can overrule you and the courts help them.

Originally posted by nick2
I woudln't want my parents getting access to my E-mail account, if I wanted them to access it I would give them the passowrd.
Why do parents always assume they have to right to anything associated with their children, like the right to decide if they die or not, the right to decide if organs are taken, the right to get access to personal information, the right to choose who gets what of the estate ?
It's like you can't be an independant person, no matter what you want they can overrule you and the courts help them.

this was after he was dead. I don't think he could object, and he'd never left any specific instructions regarding it.

It's normal for the next of kin to have rights over things like that, if they didn't who would? Of course if someone is married then the next of kin becomes their spouse, but if not then it's their parents.
If they want it to be some other way they should write a will and a 'living will', to make it clear.

Originally posted by roughy101
let his family bury him,what is the point of informing people who are not going to turn up, what ever secrets he had should be allowed to go to the grave with him,at the end of the day if you were such a good friend you wouldnt have to come to a forum to ask??? whats the best thing to do.
:( roughy is right,if no one knows then keep it that way, delete it change servers and addresses so his friends cant try to get in touch at a later date when some one else has the pc

Originally posted by Cyclone
this was after he was dead. I don't think he could object, and he'd never left any specific instructions regarding it.

It's normal for the next of kin to have rights over things like that, if they didn't who would? Of course if someone is married then the next of kin becomes their spouse, but if not then it's their parents.
If they want it to be some other way they should write a will and a 'living will', to make it clear.
but why did they need access to his email account? wether he was dead or not its none of thier business... i can understand everything else like stuff in the house and things but his own "personal" email account should be kept secret,

Originally posted by savbaby
but why did they need access to his email account? wether he was dead or not its none of thier business... i can understand everything else like stuff in the house and things but his own "personal" email account should be kept secret,

exactly, what if they got access and then found out he was taking drugs, or having an affair, or gay or something, that would realy upset them, people have to have some privacy even from their loving relatives.

Originally posted by nick2
exactly, what if they got access and then found out he was taking drugs, or having an affair, or gay or something, that would realy upset them, people have to have some privacy even from their loving relatives.

I don't think you have many rights as a dead person to be honest.

Whoever gets your estate inherits everything, it might include things that upset them, it might include your diary that you never intended anyone else to read. But your dead, it's not going to bother you, and it might bring them a bit of comfort to feel that they can relive what you've been doing and see that you were happy or sad or whatever in your last few weeks of life.

secret surely applies to something that 'someone' knows. If someone is dead, and the only record is locked away, it's not a 'secret' it's just not known. I see no reason why the inheritors of the estate shouldn't have access.

Mod. Note

At the request of the original poster I've closed this thread now, but will leave it up for viewing.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

Joe