Fossil fuels, should we just make them cleaner and carry on or drop them immediately. Opting for alternatives like wind, solar or nuclear technologies.

Long term we have to lower consumption, alternative fuels could never satisfy our current appetite for power.

Nuclear has the potential to drastically reduce our greenhouse emissions, only problem is that one cock up is all it needs and those emissions are replaced with something a lot worse!

Windmills struggle to replace the fossil energy expended during their manufacture.

Short of a technological breakthrough like cheap as chips fusion we just have to use less!

Or just carry on, in which case I think we’re shagged.

B

Alternatively....

We start saving more.

Rather than increasing capacity by 10% in a year, what about making all efforts to reduce consumption?

I know it's hard but it is something we really have to consider.

Joe

I'll be going for solar pannels in a bit !

Not because I'm nature concious, just to avoid paying electricity bills.

Problem is... what to use as an alternative to gas for cooking ? I'm not about to use electricity for sure, so the problem remains.
But for TV, Microwave, PC etc, solar electricity would both care for the environment and my walled (although It's get stingy to pay for the actual pannels and install).

If communal electricity is the way forward, then Nuclear is the best bet. Safe installation, very low emissions. Naturally, not employing 5 year olds to maintain the facility would be a good option to avoid such unattractive accidents :D
It ain't pretty, but ONE plant defacing the countryside will power countless homes...

On the other hand, wind farms can kiss my **** ... It ain't eco friendly, it's noisy and defaces the countryside... One mill is enough to power my TV in standby mode so you need a lot !

Has anyone considered solar heating panels.

When used in conjunction with underfloor heating they can make big savings.

Also for preheating the cold water that comes into the house before going through the main boiler.

Water that comes into the home is usually 15 degrees ish, if you can heat it up to 40 by solar then you only have to top it up with conventional gas or electric heating systems.

You can make solar heating panels yourself, Heelly City farm run a course a couple of times a year. They are probably quite good for other alternative energy information.

Did you know that you can get a grant to insulate your cavity wall. For most it is around £125, if you are on certain benefits you get it for free. You can get grants for loft insulation too.
This applies to home owners too not just council tenants.

It can save you about 30% of your heating bill.

A good company that covers the sheffield area is
Global Insulations Ltd of dinnington, sheffield.
(01909) 550850 or freephone 0800 040 7034

There are now grants available for solar hot water systems and PV solar panel installation.

The link below tells you about the scheme and installers.

http://www.clear-skies.org/

you could have put all that in one post!

I saw something about mini wind turbines being trialled, you mount a 5 metre turbing above your chimney and link it directly into your mains ring. It won't provide everything you need, but a good portion of it. it's being trialled somewhere (scotland i think) and the installation cost is £1500. Combine it with solar panels and you might be virtually self sufficient. And of course research into better panels is ongoing, they are at best about 15% efficient at the moment. The two go well together as the wind/sun are often out of phase, and you still get wind at night. You could also have a great whopping capacitor and store the energy generated overnight (or sell it back to the grid...)

Not sure about the great big whopping capacitor thingy. Think there is far too much leakage for that to be viable. Too much loss from a capacitor.

Read about a material that transfers heat directly into electricity, not sure if this could be integrated onto a PV panel so that you get power from the light and the heat.

Article was in new scientist a few months ago.

Apparently the technology isnt new just the materials are.

Keep the ideas coming.

I have loads of them, just no money to carry them out. Also not sure if landlord would be too pleased at be butchering his house.

lol

capacitors are commonly used for short and long term power storage, so I doubt there's a problem with leakage. The main reason for a capacitor over a battery is that they have higher energy density.

Solar panels are a good idea but as a way to save money they are not so good. "They" say it takes about 10-15 years for them to pay for themselves. It's not very often you could comit to staying in one place for that long. Assuming it costs a fortune to move them to a different house.

Personally I prefer the Solar heated water systems, seems more efficient to heat water directly than to create electricity to heat water.

Solar panels are ok in remote systems where connecting to the grid is a problem.

PV are great if you want electric.
Solar heat systems are great if you want hot water/air.

Too many problems with effciency with heat changes on solar panels. Also batteries are a problem for storage with temperature and cycle and memory effect issues.

Think its very much a case of picking the correct system for your requirements.

Combined systems are probably the way forward, small solar (PV) system to charge low voltage equipment,

Mobile phones
Laptop
Cordless DECT phones
Burglar alarm
a small invert for 240/110 low wattage devices.


And a solar heating system for hot water and underfloor heating.

Underfloor heating is a great idea, why heat water to such ridiculous temperatures like a combi boiler does when you can just pump water at 20+ degrees through the floor.

Cyclone thanks for the comments on capacitor storage, just looked it up and you are deffo right. Looks like there have been many advances since I did my qualifications in Electronics many moons ago.

Any ideas on costing and size of capacitor storage systems?

no idea i'm afraid.

I'd rather stick with gas for a few more years so I can make my fortune and then retire thank you. I've just got into this trade and would rather it wasn't made redundant just yet. ;)

Go with gas until it runs out. :)

Originally posted by Pauly
I'd rather stick with gas for a few more years so I can make my fortune and then retire thank you. I've just got into this trade and would rather it wasn't made redundant just yet. ;)

Go with gas until it runs out. :)

For f*cks sake man why have such an irresponsible, selfish attitude?

Unfortunately , idiots (generally motorists) are so up their own and selfish that they couldn't care less about anyone but themselves and driving their nice cars.

Up my own and selfish eh? Nice. :) Mine was a light hearted comment more than anything but I guess some people have NO sense of humour at all. :roll:

I'm not saying that alternative energy wouldn't be a good thing because it'd be a great deal better for the environment but surely you can see how ironic it'd be for me to have just got into a trade that relies on the use of fossil fuel only to have it taken away leaving me having to find yet another new career.

Hey ho.

I think power wise hydro electricity is being looked past

that power plant in north wales creates so much power...

and in 15 minutes it runs at full capacity

it was expensive to build, yes, but hydro electricity works pretty damn well

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
I think power wise hydro electricity is being looked past

that power plant in north wales creates so much power...

and in 15 minutes it runs at full capacity

it was expensive to build, yes, but hydro electricity works pretty damn well

unfortunatley it produces just as much greenhouse gas as burning fossil fuels, but at least it won't run out.

robbie - put your nose back into joint and get on with marketing that hydrogen car, make it fast, cheap and good looking, you can then single handedly claim to have made all those idiots greener.
People use petrol driven cars because there are no viable alternatives, and that's down to big business.

Originally posted by Cyclone
unfortunatley it produces just as much greenhouse gas as burning fossil fuels, but at least it won't run out.

robbie - put your nose back into joint and get on with marketing that hydrogen car, make it fast, cheap and good looking, you can then single handedly claim to have made all those idiots greener.
People use petrol driven cars because there are no viable alternatives, and that's down to big business.

how does a hydro plant create co2 emissions?

solar flues are a possibility for effective alternative energy
http://www.visionengineer.com/env/solar_flue.shtml

a global energy grid would be a start too.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
how does a hydro plant create co2 emissions?

solar flues are a possibility for effective alternative energy
http://www.visionengineer.com/env/solar_flue.shtml

a global energy grid would be a start too.

removal of plant life and ebbing and waning of the level causing death and rotting of more plant life. There was a study done of the largest hydro damn in the world (in china i believe).

that's if you dam a gigantic wooded ravine at the Three Gorges on the Yangtse ( I think - checking) - a hydro project that has drawn worldwide condemnation from an environmental perspective.

The more enlightened hydro plants create huge pump storage chambers inside mountains and use them to soak up excess production that can be fed back into the grid at 10 minutes notice.

This (c02 emissions) is not a feature of hydro power, but a side effect of siting decisions.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
that's if you dam a gigantic wooded ravine at the Three Gorges on the Yangtse ( I think - checking) - a hydro project that has drawn worldwide condemnation from an environmental perspective.

The more enlightened hydro plants create huge pump storage chambers inside mountains and use them to soak up excess production that can be fed back into the grid at 10 minutes notice.

This (c02 emissions) is not a feature of hydro power, but a side effect of siting decisions.

fair enough, so in some cases it might have other environmental impact, but not if you have good planning and an appropriate site in the first place.

Originally posted by Cyclone
fair enough, so in some cases it might have other environmental impact, but not if you have good planning and an appropriate site in the first place.

Damming any river will have an enormous local impact.

Hollowing out mountains is also an energy expensive business, but these pump storage facilities are an excellent way of making use of periodic energy sources such as solar, wind, tidal, etc. By soaking up excess production and using the energy to pump water uphill, the pump storage facility makes a good job of storing the energy in a readily converted (and refilled) form.

Even with traditional energy production they act to reduce emissions and waste by soaking up variations in supply and demand and allowing a much lower overall level of production.

Of course, these projects are few and far between, because you need solid mountains to bore large holes into, but this approach is key to stablising or reducing production without affecting supply.

YES!

I think that bio-diesel may be the most immediate answer for transportation. This could be a real winner with plug in hybrid vehicles.

In current form, PV panels are very expensive. There has been some research with printed panels, which may bring down the cost in the future.

Solar heat panels are not bad. I would be interested to know if anyone has used them in conjunction with a heat pump during winter months?

I have been following a company that produces an insulation product called aero-gel. It has very high R-values and could revolutionize the insulation industry if manufacturing costs can be brought down.

The use of smart plug technology could help improve power distribution methods and reduce consumption. Compressor-less air conditioning and refrigeration could also help. OLED bulbs could also reduce power consumption.

Composting toilets with bacteria additives could provide cooking gas. (Add perfume at your discretion)

Originally posted by noseyrosie
For f*cks sake man why have such an irresponsible, selfish attitude?

I'll bet you use gas/eleccy, which are/generated from fossil fuels, thats not to mention transport, but no doubt you're a responsible citizen!!

there's nothing wrong with extracting gas/oil, it pays ok!!

Many years ago when we lived in Cornwall I remember an experimental scheme near Cambourne for using the heat deep underground for generating steam. Basically water is pumped down to a level where the temperature is hot enough to turn it to steam which is tapped off to drive turbines/generators as in a conventional power station.

Don't know what became of this, but when you consider how deep they drill for oil and natural gas, and how deep they will have to drill for oceanic methane hydrates it's surprising more hasn't been done to tap the natural heat of the earth's crust. There are certainly hot spots in the UK that could be exploited in this way.

Wind farms are just a waste of time and money being rushed into to meet govt. targets for the reduction of CO2 emmissions, and being exploited by energy companies to make a quick profit from over-generous govt. grants. Long term and more satisfactory solutions like wave-power and tidal generation schemes are being avoided because of the high capital cost (relative to wind farms) and possible opposition to their environmental impact.

I feel pretty sure the present govt. will go for nuclear power as a short term solution, but when you look at the cost of processing and safely storing the nuclear waste already in the country it really doesn't make any kind of economic sense.

i was under the impression that fission made lots of economic sense, the problem is public opinion (which is mostly based on tabloid press and hollywood movies).

I wonder why goethermal isn't more popular, I suspect it'd down to engineering difficulties and scaling issues.

Wave and tidal energy generation is still a field where much research is going on, I know someone in Edinburgh who spends all her time researching wave power stuff.

Did you know that there are over 60million mobile phones in use in the UK.

The average phone charger uses 1.31 watts to charge a mobile phone. Assuming each phone takes an hour to charge.

60,000,000 x 1.3135 Watts is 78.81 Mega Watts a year

That is over £2.3 Million in electricity costs a year assuming electricity is 8p a unit.

Just think what CO2 emmisions could be reduced by if we charged our phones by a wind up charger, exercise bike or alternative energy like solar.

CO2 emmisions are 2lb (908grams)/Kilowatt

= 78810 KW x .908 Kilo
= 71.56 Tonnes of CO2

Anyone else want to give me other things to work out, see what we can get people thinking about.

[I think power wise hydro electricity is being looked past that power plant in north wales creates so much power...
and in 15 minutes it runs at full capacity
it was expensive to build, yes, but hydro electricity works pretty damn well [/B]

it takes electricity in quite times to pump the water up from the lower llyns up to the ones at the top of the moutains in the two hydroelectic power plants that i know of in snowdonia. the power they produce is used during peak times only
to build a power plant like this would required millions of tons of rock to be removed and transported away using lorries which use oil, the fumes of which pollute the environment. the cost of one hydroelectic plant like Dinorwic at Llanberis would cost 100's of millions of £'s which would build 1000's of wind turbines which are less polluting to construct. the only problem with them is they have to be situated in a suitable area, one that does not destoy the environment that they are supposed to protect

What about wind farms? I live at the top of a hill and I can tellyou its windy enough. We have lots of hillside around so why not use it? I know people say they look ugly but on a Hillside around Sheffield you are hardly going to be annoying residents.

We have to change, or we are all living with a time bomb. The planet is sha**ed by what we use and we owe it to our children and theirs to do something about it!

I think wind farms have generally been discredited. It's just the government that is pushing them now.
Wave and tidal power is better, although individual wind turbines stuck on your chimney are being trialled in scotland.

If anyone fancies building a wind turbine in my back garden our family would gladly welcome it :)

I realise wind turbines aren't as efficient as other sources of clean power but we live in Sheffield surrounded by hills. Surrounded by many sparsely or unpopulated hills as well.

Watching my washing out on the line and wondering if its likely to go walkies down the valley I know there are more efficient types of power but we get it very windy up here most of the year.