What is funny with Lenny Henry, likewise Billy Connaly (cant even spell his name) Jack Dee, Lee Evans etc.etc.

Bring Back Norman Wisdom I say.

For me Lee Evans get me with his natural physcial comedy, he is a genuine nutter in his physcial capability and he takes the micheal out of normal human conditions such as nervousness with the opposite sex.
Lenny Henry can often be the same, physical comedy mixed with observational humour like the cat flap sketch and the Jamaiican buying quality dried cabbage instead of cannabis. it's often things we think of, stretched a little and with humour added.
Billy Connelly is definitely more about observational comedy but I don't like the prolific swearing much.
Jack Dee.... Just a little too dry for me.

I suppose it's a matter of taste. I can't see the appeal of Lenny Henry myself, but two of my favourite comedians are Lee Evans and Billy Connolly - Norman Wisdom cracks me up as well. I can't stand Bob Monkhouse - I find him utterly fake, dull and smarmy.

Originally posted by Ant
I can't stand Bob Monkhouse - I find him utterly fake, dull and smarmy.

Still, being smarmy is quite a good effort for someone who's been dead over a year :hihi:

Oops! :blush:

I just thought he'd gone out of fashion.

I don't find Lenny Henry very amusing, and many of his sketches tend to go on far too long. Millions would disagree, of course, and the Afro-Caribbean community are extremely proud of him.

I am with Ant re the wonderful Billy Connolly. I think he is the finest stand-up in the world bar none. At his very best, his presence [always a slight hint of menace], delivery and timing are peerless.

I agree with Zebra re Jack Dee. Dee has always struck me as 'fake', in the sense that his world-weary act does not come across. He tends to rely a lot upon schooldays humour, which suggests to me that he does not have anywhere near the broad range of experience to draw upon that is open to Billy Connolly. The man is not quite as mature and seasoned as one would expect in a 40-something. He has never even made a flicker of a smile play about my lips.

I have laughed heartily at Eddie Izzard, but the laughter is always tempered with sadness. I don't like to pathologise him, but his whole act and persona appear to be a working-out of the grief he feels for a mother who died when he was a very small boy. Izzard frequently refers to the tragedy in interviews, and I can imagine the pain must be considerable. 'She died so long ago, it is as if she had never been', he once said. How very sad. It is difficult to laugh long at such a transparently tragic, and emotionally turbulent performer.

I share Ant's dislike of the late Bob Monkhouses's comedy. Again, there was something tragic and achingly-unfunny about Monkhouse. The whole act seemed one long, tremulous whine, 'love me, love me'. He was celebrated as being 'quick'. So are many things- the Ebola virus is rather speedy but that in itself does not win my approval. He was 'quick' with unfunny punchlines, and the smarmy persona [ based, possibly, on American stars of the fifties] made people distrust him. I think a comedian has to be trusted. After all, he/she is asking us to suspend disbelief for a while.

Of the latest crop [Little Britain, League of Gentlemen, Peter Kay, Ricky Gervais etc], I think League of Gentlemen are the most talented people in comedy for decades. They are really a forensic Monty Python. I dearly wish I had an ounce of their talent.

I saw Lenny Henry live many many years ago with David Copperfield. I didn't think he was too bad then but I think he is rubbish these days.

Lenny henry doesn't quite do it for me for whatever reason. The most funny man of all time is BILL BAILEY. He is a genius. Anyone who sings the hokey cokey in german deserves an award.

Man stecht der linke Arm ein,
Man bringt der linke Arm aus,
Ein, Aus, Ein, Aus und schuttelt es ganz herum.
Man macht der Hokey Cokey und man dreht sich 'rum,
Und das ist der ganze Sache!

Oh! Hokey Cokey Cokey....etc

Lenny Henry is very much like his wife Dawn French.
Very unfunny and very annoying.

I do love Billy Connolly and Lee Evans is now starting to grow on me a little, hopefully a lot more before we go to see him Live at the Arena this year.

But my fave's are Dave Allen and Bill Hicks.
Now there are 2 spot on blokes- right there.

RIP Dave & Bill also.

It's obviously a matter of personal taste. Lenny Henry is nice and safe for BBC pre-watershed TV. I laugh at one or two of his sketches, but I'm probably doing so more out of sympathy. He's a nice guy and some of us have, I suppose, grown up with him. We don't get any satisfaction out of seeing him make a bit of a plonker of himself.

Jack Dee I've occasionally found funny, likewise, Eddie Izzard. The question must be though, Timo, how many of these comics are hiding some form of pain or loss inside? I'd imagine a large proportion of these guys and gals are quite miserable in their personal life, feeling that every time they are in public they have to be funny and switch into comic-mode at the drop of a hat.

My own favourites range from Eric Morecambe and Ronnie Barker to more recent stand-ups like Jo Brand and Ben Elton. I share too with many who rate Billy Connolly; the guy is a class act. I also admit to liking the late Bob Monkhouse:

'I was never scared of water and learning to swim. My father threw me in the local lake - when it was frozen over'.

Ousetunes,
Monkhouse [whom I personally found cringeworthy] enjoyed something of a revival on the student scene, shortly before his death. I am told that his material was nothing like the predictable, limp fare he engaged in on television. Apparently, in his later 'live' performances, the unctious, oozing false sincerity was replaced by a sardonic air and near-the-knuckle material. Certainly, I have met many students who were firm fans.

The thing is, students often latch on to 'old' comedians/entertainers [Rolf Harris, Nicholas Parsons spring to mind], giving their careers a fresh lease of life. It happened in the early 80s [I think] with Max Wall. When asked about his 'revitalised' career, Wall replied, ' Why am I suddenly so funny? I wasn't funny last year.'


Angelus,
I have to agree here. What is it about Lenny Henry and Dawn French that is so deeply irritating? I am with Bernard Manning when he quipped [re Comic Relief], that the 'last thing those starving Africans want to see is Lenny Henry and his big, fat ******* wife'. Brutal, but true. They affect an irreverant image, but in reality are shameless 'luvvies'.

I have been to see Lenny Henry live at the crucible some years ago. He was hilarious first rate stand up one of the best I have ever seen.

Soupy,
Is his act 'live' much better than his tv appearances?

Originally posted by timo
Soupy,
Is his act 'live' much better than his tv appearances?

Yes, I saw him in Leeds a few years ago and he was very funny, his TV show isn't.

Perhaps this is the case with a lot of comedians. Their television appearances may be safer and blander than their 'live' material. I can believe that of Lenny Henry.

As I said before, Lenny Henry does not make me laugh. One of his faults is a tendency to 'borrow' material from other comedians. I am not saying that this is not the case with other entertainers, but he is a particularly bad culprit. I have seen him lift Eddie Murphy and Robin Williams' lines on more than a few occasions. He must think we only watch him.

To be honest, I've always had a bit of a grudge against the so-called 80s generation of 'alternative' types, such as Lenny Henry, Alexei Sayle, Ben Elton, French and Saunders, Rick Mayall. I thought the previous generation of Monty Python, Peter Cook etc were far more funny and inventive. I cannot stand any kind of comedy [or any art form] where the intentions are too obvious, or where there is some, patronising political agenda. Looking back, the 80s crowd [now, in some cases, part of the 'establishment'] were responsible for some very self-righteous, 'right-on' dreariness. Fair enough, The Young Ones and Blackadder emerged from this period, but I think many , especially Elton, served to create a 'pc' environment which constrained a lot of free expression. The next wave, from Reeves and Mortimer, to the wonderful talents of Steve Coogan, Paul Whitehouse, Bill Bailey, Little Britain, League of Gents, Gervais etc are infinitely 'healthier', less patronising and funnier. The likes of Peter Kay have more in common with Les Dawson and Ronnie Barker than anything to do with the 'alternative' 80s crowd, and they are better for it.

Timo,

Peter Cook - in my opinion the best of all. I remember last year on TV they had a programme to find the best humourist of all time. I think they asked other comics to vote on it. I was pleased that Cook was voted the greatest (although the words comic or comedian don't really describe what he was) - he was just the sharpest, wittiest, most innovative exponent of the comedic arts, and also in his own way one of the most influential. Co founder/owner of (and contributor to) Private Eye; writer and performer of Not Only But Also and also of Derek and Clive etc. I suppose his one limitation was that his humour didn't travel very well - there was something peculiarly British (English?) about it. Unlike Dudley moore, he never made it big in the US, which was there loss.

I think Lenny Henry is decent, nothing special, but not the best of comedians. I do like watching his shows though.

I prefer people like Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence etc. very funny.

Some good points, Timo.

Whilst I admit to loving, nay, let's not overstretch ourselves, seriously enjoying the so-called 'alternative' comedians of the mid- to late-eighties (Saturday Night Live was my favourite entertainment programme) it is surprising how mainstream (or part of the establishment as you put it) many of them have become.

Jo Brand has had her own programme and pops up on numerous others programmes as a studio guest. She was on BBC Radio 2 just the other evening. Ben Elton is so mainstream one or two 'younger viewers' ought to be shown a video of his hosting Saturday Night Live to see IMO how funny and sharp he was. (He has also more or less stated that a lot of his anti-Thatcher rants weren't as personal as they sounded at the time. Well, he would say that NOW, wouldn't he?)

Julian Clary - cf Jo Brand - appears on any entertainment/interview type programme (Paul O'Grady the other day) and does voice-overs for numerous adverts, most noticeably Bloo bog disinfectant!! Not so cutting edge, eh?!

I could go on, you know the score. What is funny to me, is that I was never on the left of the policital spectrum yet enjoyed the lefty, Thatcher bashing stance of SNL and other alternative comics. Indeed, it couldn't have worked without it, could it? (Stavros, with his 'That Missus Lady Thatch, she only gone and put a tax on kebabs' became another product of 1980s Thatcherism: Loadsamoney).

It seems a bit watered-down now to discover that, years on, these once cutting-edge, satirical and 'angry' comedians are now probably middle England millionaires more likely to read The Daily Mail and Hello than The Guardian and The Big Issue.

Whadayathink, Timo?

Originally posted by timo
I have laughed heartily at Eddie Izzard, but the laughter is always tempered with sadness. I don't like to pathologise him, but his whole act and persona appear to be a working-out of the grief he feels for a mother who died when he was a very small boy. Izzard frequently refers to the tragedy in interviews, and I can imagine the pain must be considerable. 'She died so long ago, it is as if she had never been', he once said. How very sad. It is difficult to laugh long at such a transparently tragic, and emotionally turbulent performer.


I have never really understood the appeal of Izzard. His whole act is based on a very controlled, safe and regimented take on surrealism, which usually involves the word "jam" (oh the hilarity).

His material is pretty weak and forced if truth be told, and I've no doubt he would never have got to where he is if it weren't for the liberal application of lipstick and rouge.

The best young comedian on these shores rarely appears on the box, though admittedly he has turned up briefly in Phoenix Nights as Spencer, the inept barman. If you ever get the chance to go and see Daniel Kitson live, you'll see why everyone who has raves about the lad.

He's quite local too - from Denby Dale I believe, the town famous for making 12-ton pies.

I don't want to take over Bruce's thread here, but a few points were directed to me.

Greenback,
I tend to agree re your points concerning Eddie Izzard. Mind you, the remains of the Python crew seem to view him as their 'natural successor'. In my view, as stated previously, League of Gents are a kind of darker, forensic Monty Python. I've always thought that Izzard is, aside from being rather tragic, a case of style over content. He has made me laugh, which is the most important thing, but his mock-laid back, wandering delivery is perhaps funnier than his material.

Lord Chaverly,
Yes, Cook is God Almighty in my comedy world. Whoever destroyed all those Not Only But Also tapes at the BBC should be tarred and feathered. Now, we have only a fragment of those great shows. Whenever, Cook and Moore are featured on television it is the same old 'Greta Garbo' and 'Art Gallery' sketches. They did much funnier material. Sadly, much is now consigned to oblivion, as I suspect are many of Spike Milligan's Q series. Some of the Derek and Clive material, especially the 'Cancer' material still causes immense pleasure. There was an air of great cruelty about Cook [as there was with the late journalist, Auberon Waugh], and nothing is funnier. I have little time for 'gentle' comedy.

Ousetunes,
If you like the 80s 'alternative' crowd, do not be afraid to admit it. Millions did, and still do. I just thought their goody-goody intentions got in the way of the comedy. Alexei Sayle, as well as Ben Elton, always struck me as tedious. A posturing, oh-so-political, 'radical marxist comedian', Sayle was sometime boorish and self-righteous. It is possible to dissent from his embittered opinions and not be a Fascist. Sayle seemed to regard anyone who dared to as such, and [allegedly] bullied other not-so political comedians. I was always puzzled why Elton, Sayle etc bothered with comedy in the first place. They should have gone into politics. I agree that it is amusing to see photo -spreads in Hello of the families of some of the 'radical' 80s crowd. Then again, people can change, mature and move on from youthful posturing.

Well to lower the tone a little.

Nathan Barley is my favourite latest comedy, brilliant.

(big up Chris Morris)

Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks keep running through my empty head.

My current flavour is that 9/11 was an act of external terrorism.

Did anybody ever see Lennie Bruce live?

I saw him on the tarmac boarding a plane in 1963 when he was deported. He was to appear at The Establishment in Greek Street, London, now THAT really was a comedy club.

BoppinBruce,
I'll bet that there are very few on the forum who could claim that. I was 2 in 1963, so Lenny Bruce was a little before my time. I have heard recordings of his performances and it isn't really my thing. I acknowledge that millions consider him to be a very, very significant 'political' comedian.

I would have, in truth, liked to have been part of the generation before mine. Then, I could have gone to see people like Cook, Moore, Alan Bennett and Jonathan Miller when they were starting out. Also, and this is a long way from Lenny Henry, I could have experienced the 60s 'underground' of early Pink Floyd etc. To experience that period as a 'young adult', rather than as a child, would have been wonderful. I envy you, Bruce.

The comedy was of its time and, in particular, Lennie Bruce does not travel well. It was of course Peter Cook that later became owner of the Establishment, the comedy club that gave us of David Frost and all the TW3 gang. Ned Sherrin being their mentor.

But as you so rightly say, its a long way from my original thread.

Nowadays Lenny Henry's TV appearances are about as funny as cutting your toenails with a chainsaw.

He was kinda funny in the 80's with the Delbert Wilkins stuff - but he has just stayed in the 80's and never moved on. Someone should tell him it's time to pack those bags with those unfashionable red nose day suits and retire.

Originally posted by venger
Well to lower the tone a little.

Nathan Barley is my favourite latest comedy, brilliant.

(big up Chris Morris)

Lenny Bruce and Bill Hicks keep running through my empty head.

My current flavour is that 9/11 was an act of external terrorism.

The funniest thing about Nathan Barley is how the media won't touch it or mention it because its about them! Previously they all loved Chris Morris because he was excoriating television almost exclusively.

Lestat,
Yes, that is true. Lenny Henry is stuck in the 80s. Actually, I think there was a time, shortly after winning New Faces tv talent show, that Lenny Henry made a perfect ass of himself by telling dreadful 'Coloured' jokes, along the lines of Charlie Williams, Kenny Lynch and the 'Chalkie' jokes of Jim 'Not Funny' Davidson. I've always thought that he was really more of a club act than tv material. I suspect that, were it not for Dawn French and the Comic Strip crew's influence, Lenny Henry would never have become as famous as he is.

What timo? No Smith's Square Crisps ads with cuddly Lenny Henry appearing to walk on water?

Circa 1981 IIRC. Don't tarnish such golden childhood memories!

(That last comment was a joke btw.)

sometimes - hes kind of hit and miss cos he panders so much to his family audience. hes more of a 'loveable safe' comedian than cutting edge thats for sure.

Ousetunes,
Yes, dear heart, I know it was a joke. One is reasonably attuned to the subtleties of your multi-layered irony...

I feel I have to speak out for Bob Monkhouse. He may not have been to everyone's taste, and had a "smarmy" act (on this I will agree) - but by all accounts, he was liked by everyone in the industry and certainly knew the "art" of comedy better than anyone. He apparantely had every video & book of comedy spanning back from the silent era - right up to modern times - he could appreciate a good comedian, knew the processes behind being funny, and even knew and accepted that him time had been and gone, that fashions change.

I really believe that the smarminess was an act and that he was a nice fella.

Oooh, and Venger - I LOVE LOVE LOVE Chris Morris, although I couldn't totally get into Nathan Barley. I'll try again next time round.

Anyone love Nighty Night as much as I do?

It all comes down to taste, i dont like lenny, but think lee evans is brill i fall about laughing when i watch "BOTTOM" ADE EDMUNDSON & RIK, but some people think they are just foul mouthed. Everyone to themself i say!:D

Lenny Henry's rise to fame in the 80s was largely due to his use of racial stereotype. all his characters seem to be based around well known stereotypes like the old jamaican, young micheal jackson lookalike, barry white -esque loverman. SO: the middle class white liberals loved him for decreasing their guilt, and the black community loved him for 'reclaiming the stereotypes', Not to mention he was one of the first Black comedians who were taken seriously in the west, this was hugely significant at the time, there were so few black people on the telly then, and it's not exactly accurate in terms of proportional representation now, is it? Lenny Henry's jokes are samey and predictable but sometimes that's both amusing and comforting, but certainly not skillful in comeadic terms, not in the way the billy connolly can be, Henry's comedy may be observational, but not anymore than the average joe bloggs, people watching in the town centre on a saturday. but he fought the good fight , so respect where it's due.

:clap:

Ohvienna :) Love your name!! I played that song to death as a kid!!

Originally posted by BoroughGal
I feel I have to speak out for Bob Monkhouse. He may not have been to everyone's taste, and had a "smarmy" act (on this I will agree) - but by all accounts, he was liked by everyone in the industry and certainly knew the "art" of comedy better than anyone. He apparantely had every video & book of comedy spanning back from the silent era - right up to modern times - he could appreciate a good comedian, knew the processes behind being funny, and even knew and accepted that him time had been and gone, that fashions change.

I really believe that the smarminess was an act and that he was a nice fella.

Oooh, and Venger - I LOVE LOVE LOVE Chris Morris, although I couldn't totally get into Nathan Barley. I'll try again next time round.

Anyone love Nighty Night as much as I do?


Boroughgal, I agree with all of the above.

Monkhouse was a very intelligent, sharp witted and accomplished comedian. He also wrote his own material, and also wrote for others too. Apparently his live act was superb. He was also an accomplished game show host.

Nathan Barley was good in parts and deserves a second series

I loved Nighty Night - this also deserves a second series.

Lenny henry isnt that funny at all these days..I think he's had his day back in the 80's

It is very rare that I ever disagree with Boroughgal or Lord C, but I always saw Monkhouse as predictable and corny. Yes, he was a great historian of comedy, and yes, he was highly intelligent and had a quick delivery. For me, the problem was that the punchlines never made me laugh. Mind you, I never saw him 'live', and as I say a while back, I have heard reports which do not contradict what Lord C says. There is the possibility that I have missed something with Monkhouse [I am , notoriously, the only one in a group of friends who doesn't like the music of Van Morrison], that others can see clearly.

Ohvienna provides an interesting, and reasonably argued, case for Lenny Henry. There are some good points there about assuaging 'white, liberal guilt'.

Hi Timo,

It is indeed rare for our opinions and judgements to differ on this forum. I agree with you about Van Morrison - I have never understood his appeal. Perhaps i can put another good word in for Monkouse. He was a great fan and collector of archival material about Laurel and Hardy - in my opinion the greateest of all comedy double acts, certainly on film.

Speaking of Laurel and Hardy, am I right in thinking that their appeal is largely gender specific? In other words, the people who like them are very largely male?

Speaking of double acts, I think I must be the only person in the UK who never liked Morcambe and Wise. I found their material predictable and corny, even at the time. I know they have almost iconic status now, but their 'magic' never worked for me.

Originally posted by timo
It is very rare that I ever disagree with Boroughgal or Lord C, but I always saw Monkhouse as predictable and corny.

Hiya Timo...

You're still not disagreeing with me now, funnily enough! I can't claim to personally like Bob Monkhouse's comedy, far from it, the only points I make are the same as yours - that I believe his "act" was smarmier than he is in real life, and that he knew the art and history of comedy better than most.

I think he was a far nicer bloke than his persona came across - that's all. But a predictable and corny act - yep, I agree.

:D

Hi Boroughgal, yes, you may well be right re Monkhouse; he was certainly well liked.

Lord C, I agree re Laurel and Hardy. My favourites are Blotto, Paron Us and Chickens Come Home. They are probably the most purely funny act of all time, and I think you are correct re the 'gendered' appeal.