Well as this was your original statement "Smoking IS a habit I agree, but it only affects the person doing it" I will answer your question.

Don't you have a family? Don't they have to endure the smoke in your house? Do you pop outside everytime you need a fag or do you share the smoke with others.

Yes I do go outside for a fag and have never smoked in front of who I live with....

Of course the impact of smoking has far more effects than that. A smoker spends a large amount of money on fags that could be spent on something useful. It is a smokers choice of course but it dose impact on a family's finances. Total cigarette sales increased by 4.4% in value this year to £9.75bn but the volume of sales fell by 2% as people smoked fewer cigarettes.

It is up to me what I spend MY money on and not anyone else, especially YOU...

Even selling a car is affected by whether it has been owned by a smoker.

Buy new then, with all the money you have saved from not smoking..

Then of course there is the impact on our streets. Where do you think all those fag ends come from? Everyone has to pay the price to clear up the litter. They have to employ people to sweep up fag alley at the Hallamshire Hospital.

Do we not pay for cleaning the roads with our taxes?

Toxic chemicals leach out of cigarette butts & can kill small animals
Fires (destroys habitats for animals, homes; Economic costs of fires)
Ingestion by children and small animals which mistake butts for food
Cost of cleaning up litter & lost revenue from visitors

This is a stupid point as it should also cover ANY form of litter, and this is attributed to mindless people who disgard rubbish without thinking...and not just smokers, and especially not EVERY smoker...

Ever seen a fire on the moors? What do you think starts those. Usually it is a fag end chucked out of a car window.
In 1999, a lorry driver in France threw a butt from the cab window. The smoldering cigarette ignited a fire inside the Mont Blanc tunnel that killed 39 people

Again this is down to inconsiderate people and not smokers in general..this is why I said originally that this is a very extreme post..

Most fires in the home are also caused by discarded fags. How many people were burned to death last year because of smokers?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/7528293.stm
Smoking materials are the biggest cause of fire related deaths in the home. An average of 120 people a year died in the UK between 2000 and 2005 in accidental home fires caused by smoking materials

And how many home fires were started by people cooking? Your 120 doesnt seem a lot to me when you look at the amount of people who die in house fires on a daily basis, but having said that, I cannot argue with your figures,if they are right and 10 people die every month because of smokers then so be it...

That's why I think your claim "Smoking IS a habit I agree, but it only affects the person doing it" is daft.

Now if I can also say that some if someone is outside and they are affected by a smoker in their vacinity then why is it that the smoker should always be the one to move, why cant the non smoker be the one to stand somewhere else?

Now if you can tell me what subject nearly all my posts are on?
Or do you want to sideskirt that question?

But you will have heard of air quality and you know that busy roads have vey bad air quality. - which is getting worse.
You passively smoke the stuff in the air, like heavy metals, carbon monoxide etc etc.

And so we're back around to your strawman argument that we shouldn't do anything about smoking because other things are bad as well.

We are already addressing vehicle emissions, and we don't allow you to burn petrol in a pub. The two things are not related.

Please do. Go on be a man, stand up for your principles.

My principle is to let each one do what they want and not to try and dictate to people what I think they should or shouldnt do

Now if I can also say that some if someone is outside and they are affected by a smoker in their vacinity then why is it that the smoker should always be the one to move, why cant the non smoker be the one to stand somewhere else?



If someone is already smoking outdoors I wouldn't expect them to move, I'd just not go and stand near them.
If I'm there first, I'd hope that they wouldn't walk up to me and then start smoking.

If it's a bus stop or train station, then it's pretty much a communal area, so smokers should try to respect the other people there.

My principle is to let each one do what they want and not to try and dictate to people what I think they should or shouldnt do

Great. Mine too. With the proviso that the actions of one shouldn't impact on another, that's where the freedom to do what you like and hit people fails (affects someone else) and the same with smoking in public places.

Please do. Go on be a man, stand up for your principles.

spilling those beans would be capitulation, and giving in to your principles

[And how many home fires were started by people cooking? Your 120 doesnt seem a lot to me when you look at the amount of people who die in house fires on a daily basis, but having said that, I cannot argue with your figures,if they are right and 2 people die every month because of smokers then so be it...



Your maths seem about as good as your logic. When I went to school 120 per year would be 10 per month.

If someone is already smoking outdoors I wouldn't expect them to move, I'd just not go and stand near them.
If I'm there first, I'd hope that they wouldn't walk up to me and then start smoking.

If it's a bus stop or train station, then it's pretty much a communal area, so smokers should try to respect the other people there.

If the area is not covered by the smoking ban in this great dictatorship we live in then why shouldnt they smoke?

Your maths seem about as good as your logic. When I went to school 120 per year would be 10 per month.

sorry beer, it wasnt my maths it was my ignorance, not reading the post right, I thought it said 120 for the five year period
I will go and amend that now

If the area is not covered by the smoking ban in this great dictatorship we live in then why shouldnt they smoke?

You can. I've never said you shouldn't. Although if a non smoker is there first it would be polite to find your own space.

You can. I've never said you shouldn't. Although if a non smoker is there first it would be polite to find your own space.

Any particular distance away?

You can. I've never said you shouldn't. Although if a non smoker is there first it would be polite to find your own space.

But great fun blowing it in their face :D

sorry beer, it wasnt my maths it was my ignorance, not reading the post right, I thought it said 120 for the five year period
I will go and amend that now

Ah thats Ok.

I know smoke gets in your eyes.:thumbsup:

Just off for a beer.

[COLOR="green"]Don't you have a family? Don't they have to endure the smoke in your house? Do you pop outside everytime you need a fag or do you share the smoke with others.

Yes I do go outside for a fag and have never smoked in front of who I live with....COLOR]

What an interesting attitude. Why won't you smoke infront of your own family? Do you not want to damage their health but are agrieved that you can't go to the pub and damage the health of strangers?.

What an interesting attitude. Why won't you smoke infront of your own family? Do you not want to damage their health but are agrieved that you can't go to the pub and damage the health of strangers?.

Why do you think that I want to damage anyones health?

I dont see why there couldnt be a smoking ROOM set aside in a pub or other place that the smoking ban covers

Why do you think that I want to damage anyones health?

I dont see why there couldnt be a smoking ROOM set aside in a pub or other place that the smoking ban covers

Presumably the health of those who serve in that particular bar is of no concern to you?

Presumably the health of those who serve in that particular bar is of no concern to you?

presumption is the mother of all f ups :hihi:

does it not occur to you that they might smoke also?

dont you think that anyone working in a place where people continue to smoke would only have to pick up the phone to get it stopped?

and also there are many countries where the smoking ban hant been implimented yet

there are also bars in Ireland that still have smokers in after the ban being in place for the past 5 years

why do you think they still do it and no-one has reported them?

Why do you think that I want to damage anyones health?

I dont see why there couldnt be a smoking ROOM set aside in a pub or other place that the smoking ban covers

As a smoker i was concerned that non smoking members of staff may have been coerced into having to work in a smoking area.

My lifestyle choice should not be imposed upon anyone else.

I'm a smoker, and I think the ban's great.

Even better, of course, would be a total ban on all alcohol and tobacco products - but I suppose consistency in public health policy would be far too much to ask for...

As a smoker i was concerned that non smoking members of staff may have been coerced into having to work in a smoking area.

My lifestyle choice should not be imposed upon anyone else.

I can understand that but surely with legislation set in place no-one would have to go in there if they didnt want to

presumption is the mother of all f ups :hihi:

does it not occur to you that they might smoke also?

dont you think that anyone working in a place where people continue to smoke would only have to pick up the phone to get it stopped?

and also there are many countries where the smoking ban hant been implimented yet

there are also bars in Ireland that still have smokers in after the ban being in place for the past 5 years

why do you think they still do it and no-one has reported them?

Well of course that is the nub of the problem. That would require a job that only smokers could apply for. A job where quitting smoking would lead to instant dismissal. It ain't going to happen any more than a ban on smoking in public places is going to be overturned.

If you find smoking so important to yourself you should perhaps consider emigrating to one of the countries that you quote as not implimenting a smoking ban. One thing is for sure such countries are getting fewer and fewer. You are welcome to take yourseff to any of them.

It is of course odd that you don't (or say you don't) smoke in your own home. You therefore consider your own family at risk from your habit. I would suggest they would be far more at risk in any of these "enlightened" places where smoking is still acceptable in indoor public places

I can understand that but surely with legislation set in place no-one would have to go in there if they didnt want to

They don't have to. There is a ban on smoking in public places specifically to protect them from your smoke. Try getting used to it.

I can understand that but surely with legislation set in place no-one would have to go in there if they didnt want to

I think I said 'coerce'................

[QUOTE=jongo;4162010Yes I do go outside for a fag and have never smoked in front of who I live with....
[/QUOTE]

Hey Jongo

Why do you think you need to smoke outside at your own home but object to going outside to smoke at a pub?

You obviosly don't want your family to suffer health problems as a result of your smoking but seem perfectly happy to impose your smoke on other people. Please explain.

They don't have to. There is a ban on smoking in public places specifically to protect them from your smoke. Try getting used to it.

I have been used to it for the past five years :huh:

Smoke affects my eyes badly. So, yeah, I've enjoyed going out more often since the introduction of the smoking ban.

Hey Jongo

Why do you think you need to smoke outside at your own home but object to going outside to smoke at a pub?

You obviosly don't want your family to suffer health problems as a result of your smoking but seem perfectly happy to impose your smoke on other people. Please explain.

EXPLAIN?????

when did I say anything about needing to smoke outside, I said I do smoke outside, but never said I needed to, I do it because I wouldnt smoke anywhere there is a non smoker, I may be a smoker but that doesnt make me ignorant, only to non smoking fascists who cant stop having a go at smokers even after the smoking ban has come into place

I DO believe the smoking ban is a good thing for the clean air atmosphere in pubs, but a bad thing for the fun atmosphere in pubs

I dont have a problem with not smoking in front of non smokers, I have a problem with the goverment making smoking in public places illegal but havnt got the balls to ban smoking full stop and also....

I MIGHT ADD, IT IS STILL OK TO SMOKE IN THE BAR IN THE COMMONS
and
in prison

if they have a problem with smoking why didnt they ban it completely?

Well of course that is the nub of the problem. That would require a job that only smokers could apply for. A job where quitting smoking would lead to instant dismissal. It ain't going to happen any more than a ban on smoking in public places is going to be overturned.

If you find smoking so important to yourself you should perhaps consider emigrating to one of the countries that you quote as not implimenting a smoking ban. One thing is for sure such countries are getting fewer and fewer. You are welcome to take yourseff to any of them.

It is of course odd that you don't (or say you don't) smoke in your own home. You therefore consider your own family at risk from your habit. I would suggest they would be far more at risk in any of these "enlightened" places where smoking is still acceptable in indoor public places

theres that presumption word again

did I ever say where I live?

I love the smoking ban, big thumbs up for the Gov on this one :) :thumbsup:

Jongo
What did you do before you found this Forum in April

I can understand that but surely with legislation set in place no-one would have to go in there if they didnt want to

Except the staff. You can't hire people only if they are prepared to risk their health.

theres that presumption word again

did I ever say where I live?

Have you ever thought of reading a posting before replying to it?

There is no presumption word in my post. And no you never said where you live, but there again I never asked before. Is it Rampton?

EXPLAIN?????

when did I say anything about needing to smoke outside, I said I do smoke outside, but never said I needed to, I do it because I wouldnt smoke anywhere there is a non smoker, I may be a smoker but that doesnt make me ignorant, only to non smoking fascists who cant stop having a go at smokers even after the smoking ban has come into place
I can quote your first post on this thread again, the one where you rant about not being able to smoke where you want. It never mentioned outside, nor did it mention fascist anti smokers

I DO believe the smoking ban is a good thing for the clean air atmosphere in pubs, but a bad thing for the fun atmosphere in pubs
Can't say that I ever found smoke to be fun.

I dont have a problem with not smoking in front of non smokers, I have a problem with the goverment making smoking in public places illegal but havnt got the balls to ban smoking full stop and also....
I don't think they should ban it full stop. Do what you want to your body in privacy, take drugs, swill rat poison, bungee jump, chop your arm off. So long as it's not hurting anyone else it's your body to do what you like with.


I MIGHT ADD, IT IS STILL OK TO SMOKE IN THE BAR IN THE COMMONS
and
in prison

if they have a problem with smoking why didnt they ban it completely?

The commons is extremely hypocritical I agree.

But great fun blowing it in their face :D

Makes it pretty easy to identify the scum doesn't it.

Does it count as assault now if someone blokes smoke in your face, or is it only assault when you shove the cigarette down their throat?

EXPLAIN?????

when did I say anything about needing to smoke outside, I said I do smoke outside, but never said I needed to, I do it because I wouldnt smoke anywhere there is a non smoker, I may be a smoker but that doesnt make me ignorant, only to non smoking fascists who cant stop having a go at smokers even after the smoking ban has come into place




You said you don't smoke infront of your family. WHY IS THAT? Is it a concern for their health perhaps?

Now you say you wouldn't smoke anywhere where there is a non smoker. What utter crap. Do you ask everyone around befiore you light up. No of course not.

If you are happy not to smoke when non smokers are around, then you agree with the smoking ban. 70% of people don't smoke, so anywhere public that you ligt up is likely to be where non smokers will be affected. That is certainly the case in a pub. The Government obviously agree with you as they brought in legislation which eforces exactly what you suggest.

Glad to hear we are all happy:thumbsup:

You said you don't smoke infront of your family. WHY IS THAT? Is it a concern for their health perhaps?

Now you say you wouldn't smoke anywhere where there is a non smoker. What utter crap. Do you ask everyone around befiore you light up. No of course not.

If you are happy not to smoke when non smokers are around, then you agree with the smoking ban. 70% of people don't smoke, so anywhere public that you ligt up is likely to be where non smokers will be affected. That is certainly the case in a pub. The Government obviously agree with you as they brought in legislation which eforces exactly what you suggest.

Glad to hear we are all happy:thumbsup:

WTF.......

do you know me? ...NO!!!

So dont tell me what I do and what I dont do!!!!!

why is it that *smokers* are generalised as one, are they not individuals who all do different things apart from have the odd fag

Have you ever thought of reading a posting before replying to it?

There is no presumption word in my post. And no you never said where you live, but there again I never asked before. Is it Rampton?

I did read the post and I know you didnt say it but you seem to be doing an awful lot of it

Jongo
What did you do before you found this Forum in April

And the relevance is?

Can't say that I ever found smoke to be fun.


I wonder if you have ever found anything at all to be fun? :hihi::hihi:

I wonder if you have ever found anything at all to be fun? :hihi::hihi:

And I wonder the same about smokers and their anti social addiction.
But it takes all sorts, including those in denial.

I did read the post and I know you didnt say it but you seem to be doing an awful lot of it

That is a truly brilliant statement. I think your nicotine patch needs changing.:loopy:

I wonder if you have ever found anything at all to be fun? :hihi::hihi:

On a really cold wet day it is quite fun to sit inside a really nice warm pub, having a nice drink; probably a light bar meal, all in the company of friends. It is really enjoyable now that we don't go home smelling like a smoked kipper.

WTF.......

do you know me? ...NO!!!

So dont tell me what I do and what I dont do!!!!!



Oh boy! Don't burst a blood vessel old chap.

No I don't know you. Neither do I want to know you. However telling you what you do and don't do was merely quoting your own words from your own postings.
QUOTE" Yes I do go outside for a fag and have never smoked in front of who I live with...." (post 151 on this very thread)


I had taken your words as the truth. Are we now to assume you were speaking out of one of the orifices that didn't have a fag stuck in it?

A simple question then to clarify your position. Do you smoke in your own home and subject your family to the dangers of your smoke?

Makes it pretty easy to identify the scum doesn't it.

Does it count as assault now if someone blokes smoke in your face, or is it only assault when you shove the cigarette down their throat?

Cigar smokes best :hihi:

Oh boy! Don't burst a blood vessel old chap.

No I don't know you. Neither do I want to know you. However telling you what you do and don't do was merely quoting your own words from your own postings.
QUOTE" Yes I do go outside for a fag and have never smoked in front of who I live with...." (post 151 on this very thread)


I had taken your words as the truth. Are we now to assume you were speaking out of one of the orifices that didn't have a fag stuck in it?

A simple question then to clarify your position. Do you smoke in your own home and subject your family to the dangers of your smoke?

Nowhere in my postings does it say that I have a family living with me!
So you wasnt quoting me at all just assuming things, we do seem to have an awful lot of assumptions among the non-smokers on here
And as for the orifice statement, are you really that ignorant that you have to resort to personal attacks and abuse
And I have already answered your last sentence earlier in the thread about smoking in my home, not that it is any of your business

On a really cold wet day it is quite fun to sit inside a really nice warm pub, having a nice drink; probably a light bar meal, all in the company of friends. It is really enjoyable now that we don't go home smelling like a smoked kipper.

I can agree with that...:)

That is a truly brilliant statement. I think your nicotine patch needs changing.:loopy:

WOW!!!
you are now presuming I need nicotine patches

am I really that interesting that you cant help wondering and presuming that I do this and do that?

try e-bay, I hear you can get a life on there for a few quid>>>

And I wonder the same about smokers and their anti social addiction.
But it takes all sorts, including those in denial.

You know Cyclone.....

After these past few days on here, I think I might stop smoking :hihi::hihi:

Thanx..x

jongo - do you disagree with the ban in pubs? I think you've said you don't, although I could be wrong.

If you do agree with it, then what are you arguing about, I've not seen anyone here say that they want to ban smoking outside.

jongo - do you disagree with the ban in pubs? I think you've said you don't, although I could be wrong.

If you do agree with it, then what are you arguing about, I've not seen anyone here say that they want to ban smoking outside.

I am sorry but I really cant be bothered answering, I have already answered my thoughts on your points cyclone.....:)

WOW!!!
you are now presuming I need nicotine patches

am I really that interesting that you cant help wondering and presuming that I do this and do that?

try e-bay, I hear you can get a life on there for a few quid>>>


Obviously pathos is wasted.

No more presumptions. I think you have told us everything. You live alone and have nothing better to do than sit in front of a computer, smoking and trying to pick arguements.

Good night old chap. I am off to meet my mates at the pub where will enjoy a few pints in a smoke free atmosphere.

I am sorry but I really cant be bothered answering, I have already answered my thoughts on your points cyclone.....:)

In the time it took to post that you couldn't be bothered you could have answered.

I think you have only answered the first point though, you haven't explained who or what you're arguing about here.

In the time it took to post that you couldn't be bothered you could have answered.

I think you have only answered the first point though, you haven't explained who or what you're arguing about here.

I think you have it covered. We are dealing with a very sad chap here.

In the time it took to post that you couldn't be bothered you could have answered.

I think you have only answered the first point though, you haven't explained who or what you're arguing about here.

I posted on this thread, which asks are we enjoying the smoking ban..
I posted that I wasnt
and then just added a short statement about the climate and polution
Then I was accused of strawmanning and avoiding the argument

Well I didnt know I was in an argument, it was just a post answering the op with my thoughts, isnt that what the forum is for?

Are we not allowed to post our thoughts if they differ from your own?

I think you have it covered. We are dealing with a very sad chap here.

Ha hahaha

This coming from someone who hasnt posted one comment that is not trying for an arguement over the last 81 posts


I do feel sooooo sorry for you
Is life really that bad

Obviously pathos is wasted.

No more presumptions. I think you have told us everything. You live alone and have nothing better to do than sit in front of a computer, smoking and trying to pick arguements.

Good night old chap. I am off to meet my mates at the pub where will enjoy a few pints in a smoke free atmosphere.

Oh my dear,
you just cant help yourself can you?
you must have a presumption addiction............

SHYTOT, SHY TED

are you the same person, or are you both just joined at where the brain should be?

funnily enough, I was thinking the same thing on the bus home from town. I really like going to pubs etc now as there is no smoking

Yes. Instead of nightclubs smelling of smoke, they now smell of sweat and flatulence.

Nice trade off.

I posted on this thread, which asks are we enjoying the smoking ban..
I posted that I wasnt
and then just added a short statement about the climate and polution
Then I was accused of strawmanning and avoiding the argument

Well I didnt know I was in an argument, it was just a post answering the op with my thoughts, isnt that what the forum is for?

Are we not allowed to post our thoughts if they differ from your own?

Of course, and if someone doesn't like them or thinks they are straw manning then they can respond.

Yes. Instead of nightclubs smelling of smoke, they now smell of sweat and flatulence.

Nice trade off.

I don't believe that BO can cause cancer?

I don't believe that BO can cause cancer?

I don't believe it can either. This was in the context of places apparently smelling nicer without smoke.

Okay, it's only one benefit. Sticking with BO then, you don't wake up the next morning and find that your clothes and hair stink of BO from the night before.
And to be honest I think you're massively over exaggerating, there have always been non smoking places, and I never heard of any complaining before that any enclosed place without smoking smelled of BO.
Maybe you're just frequenting places where smelly people go?

Yes. Instead of nightclubs smelling of smoke, they now smell of sweat and flatulence.

Nice trade off.

The point is these nightclubs would have smelt of BO and flatulence before the smoking ban was imposed. It is just that the clubbers didn't notice it.

The advantage now is that you can pick clubs that don't stink of BO and flatulence. The owners of the clubs also know if their club stinks and will now do something about it. A bit like health clubs really

All positive as far as I'm concerned.

1 Clubs don't have health damaging cigarette smoke in the atmosphere.

2 Clubs that stink will have to clean up their act to stay in business. They will no longer be able to rely on masking the smell with smoke.

3 Being a girl around town I can now spot a bloke with personal hygene problems long before the journey home.:thumbsup:

I don't believe it can either. This was in the context of places apparently smelling nicer without smoke.
They do smell nicer or at least not as bad, the smells stale smoke was masking are obviously much weaker than that of smoke and unlike smoke don't permeate your clothes and skin.

Surely its only a matter of time before clubs start installing much better aircon to take the smell of BO away.

Surely its only a matter of time before clubs start installing much better aircon to take the smell of BO away.


My point entirely. A positive result all round.:thumbsup:

I'm enjoying it.
I can actually go into a club and not feel like my lungs are being burned.

For those who think the natural smell of places is better go and have a drink in Lava lounge on west street. You will be welcomed by the smell of **** in the main bar. If you go to the toilet which is a must, then you will be overcome with a more pungent smell of ****, yet with a slightly different taste. Enjoy!

For those who think the natural smell of places is better go and have a drink in Lava lounge on west street. You will be welcomed by the smell of **** in the main bar. If you go to the toilet which is a must, then you will be overcome with a more pungent smell of ****, yet with a slightly different taste. Enjoy!

Thanks for the warning. I will find a more hygenic spot to give my trade.

That is the great thing about the smoking ban. You can now smell out the places with appaling hygene and avoid them.

I agree the natural smell of places is better than that same smell being covered over by smoke. If I think a place stinks I will go elsewhere. It just shows that fag smoke wasn't all we were being forced to breathe.

For those who think the natural smell of places is better go and have a drink in Lava lounge on west street. You will be welcomed by the smell of **** in the main bar. If you go to the toilet which is a must, then you will be overcome with a more pungent smell of ****, yet with a slightly different taste. Enjoy!

Yes, and of course it smelt of the same things before, its just that you didn't realise you were breathing them.:gag:
Now you know what the place smells like you can complain to the owners or simply move to a better standard of establishment.

... for now. :twisted:

Yeah! The miserable **d* 'all soon stop us enjoying that freedom too!! :rant:

:banana::banana::banana::banana:

What a terrible time drinkers must be having in Sheffield------imagine having to tour round bars until one finds a place that doesn't smell of stale body odour, X, Y and Z !

I've worked and been on holiday to a lot of different places all round the world and most places smell of a nice combination of wine, smoke, food and coffee, with no one smell dominating the others. Also, I've yet to witness any foreigners keeling over in their thousands due to a whiff of tobacco .[ Maybe they're tougher than we are ? ].. Have a lot of English people stopped washing ? Did they, perhaps never, ever wash, in the first place ? Does the consumtion of tons of fast food lead to an increase in uncontrollable gas expulsion ? Are little brats being sick all over ' family ' pubs ? Do English people simply smell a bit ' off ' to other English people ? I think we should be told !

Yes I'm enjoying the smoking ban no end. Even more so when I see those idiots stood outside offices, hospitals, pubs, restaurants, etc looking miserable in the rain getting their latest fix from their cancer sticks. Makes me positively glow with health!

What a terrible time drinkers must be having in Sheffield------imagine having to tour round bars until one finds a place that doesn't smell of stale body odour, X, Y and Z !

!

you are out of touch me old love, we have deoderants here in England now even in the north.

Well, Sid, what you say is very true. However, from the evidence of many people on S.F. , as regards the current state of bars and pubs in Sheffield [ and elsewhere ? ], it sounds as if a lot of people in the North of England either a] Have never yet heard of deoderants b] Can't afford to buy them or c] Don't know how to use them.

In fact, I'm surprised that Local Councils haven't run courses on ' Deoderant Operating & Its History ', supported, of course, by Health & Safety. What price banning smoking, after all, if people are squirting Air-Freshener or Body Mist in their eyes and wasting our N.H.S. time and money ?

Well, Sid, what you say is very true. However, from the evidence of many people on S.F. , as regards the current state of bars and pubs in Sheffield [ and elsewhere ? ], it sounds as if a lot of people in the North of England either a] Have never yet heard of deoderants b] Can't afford to buy them or c] Don't know how to use them.

In fact, I'm surprised that Local Councils haven't run courses on ' Deoderant Operating & Its History ', supported, of course, by Health & Safety. What price banning smoking, after all, if people are squirting Air-Freshener or Body Mist in their eyes and wasting our N.H.S. time and money ?

I think what you get from the comments of some SF users is that they resent the smoking ban, particularly in pubs. They then post on the forum all sorts of stories about how pubs are closing down, how they now smell because they don't stink of stale tobacco anymore. They post anything they like to try to make out that the ban is somehow unpopular. It isn't.

There are very few disgusting places that stunk to high heaven before the ban and stink to high heaven after it. Most pubs, restaurants, cafes and other buildings where smoking is no longer allowed are far better for the ban. This is the case across the UK, much of Europe, and the developed world, where it is becoming the norm.

I am sure that some died in the wool smokers will continue to moan. They will make posting claiming their absence from the pub will mean the end of the world. It won't. There are plenty of customers in the decent pubs, and because some are spending less on tobacco they can spend more on beer and food.

Pubs were closing at the rate of 2500/year in the UK before the ban and are closing at a similar rate now. This is because tiny street corner boozers are being replaced by converted banks, swimming pools and factories that hold hundreds of people rather than 20.

My understanding is that sales have fallen by around 7% since the smoking ban. Bearing in mind that this was pretty much what was happening up to 2006 (when there was a sudden boost by late night opening) it is not cignificant.

Crap pubs close because they do not compete. It is therefore pretty obvious that the smelly and antisocial pubs are the ones that go. Most are closed by magistrates and police for antisocial activity, violence and drug dealing. It leaves the 97% of respectable pubs to get on with being what they are. The envy of the world.:thumbsup:

Well, ' beer ', I never realised what fibbers some S.F. posters are ! There have been a good few telling us not only about the ' revealed ' pongs, once tobacco pong has gone, but lots of others saying that some pub gardens are full of smokers and the inside rooms empty !

I do realise that lots of pubs were closing before the ban. However, one possibility to consider is that the closures might have slowed down a bit [ for the usual reasons ] had it not been for the smoking ban. If I ever have the misfortune to have to return to ' Brown's Little Eden ', I'll have to see for myself, I suppose, if there are any left open.

You are correct that British pubs are probably admired all over the world but people all over the world were saying that before the smoking ban as well. From what I can gather, from living and working abroad, for many years, most foreigners have a mental image of the British pub as a little, quiet, cosy place, with a real fire where civilised people gather to exchange intelligent views about life in general. Again, according to many S.F. posters, this doesn't sound like many pubs in Sheffield these days, especially in the city centre ? Could they be fibbing about that too ?

Well, ' beer ', I never realised what fibbers some S.F. posters are ! There have been a good few telling us not only about the ' revealed ' pongs, once tobacco pong has gone, but lots of others saying that some pub gardens are full of smokers and the inside rooms empty !
Bitterness and addiction drives people to all manner of strange actions, if lying on a forum was the worst of them the world would be a much nicer place.

Well, ' beer ', I never realised what fibbers some S.F. posters are ! There have been a good few telling us not only about the ' revealed ' pongs, once tobacco pong has gone, but lots of others saying that some pub gardens are full of smokers and the inside rooms empty !

I do realise that lots of pubs were closing before the ban. However, one possibility to consider is that the closures might have slowed down a bit [ for the usual reasons ] had it not been for the smoking ban. If I ever have the misfortune to have to return to ' Brown's Little Eden ', I'll have to see for myself, I suppose, if there are any left open.

You are correct that British pubs are probably admired all over the world but people all over the world were saying that before the smoking ban as well. From what I can gather, from living and working abroad, for many years, most foreigners have a mental image of the British pub as a little, quiet, cosy place, with a real fire where civilised people gather to exchange intelligent views about life in general. Again, according to many S.F. posters, this doesn't sound like many pubs in Sheffield these days, especially in the city centre ? Could they be fibbing about that too ?

Very true. If it were true you would expect that all non smokers houses, offices, shops etc would smell similarly. They don't. That is because a bar of soap costs less than a packet of fags.

The town centre pubs are by and large not the classic English pubs that we talk about. Most are young folks circuit pubs selling overpriced beer. Sheffield has some real classic pubs that are packed night after night with REAL customers.

The English pub is alive and well. It has not suffered from the smoking ban to any degree. This is not necessarily the case with the disco bars, "Irish" pubs and theme bars that need a new gimic every 6 months. They don't have loyal regulars and have always been here today gone tomorrow.

The smoking ban has harmed the british pub and contributed to it's decline , according to chancellor alistair darling .
you would think with all the trouble the anti smoking briggade went to , to ban smoking in pubs , pubs would be full of them now .

Yeah it does seem that more and more pubs are closing. Especially ones that don't have the space outdoors to even accommodate smokers.

Chancellor Darling = FAIL.

OK a few Pubs shut due to the ban, but IMO the Pub going experience has IMPROVED thanks to it, no longer do I come out of the Pub smelling like an ashtray, I can now take my time thrashing Dad at Pool rather than wanting to hurry up and get the heck out of the tap room because passive smoking's killing my eyes and lungs.

The smoking ban has harmed the british pub and contributed to it's decline , according to chancellor alistair darling .
you would think with all the trouble the anti smoking briggade went to , to ban smoking in pubs , pubs would be full of them now .

Quite, why aren't they packed to the rafters with all the anti smoking people who said they avoided pubs because of the smoky atmosphere and smell? Methinks they weren't pubgoers at all.

Quite, why aren't they packed to the rafters with all the anti smoking people who said they avoided pubs because of the smoky atmosphere and smell? Methinks they weren't pubgoers at all.

You seem to class non smokers as the anti smoking people.
The Government imposed the smoking ban, not people who are sensible enough not to smoke. The Government did it in response to reports by the NHS and other health care bodies, pointing to dangers to public health. They did not impose the smoking ban as a result of any demands from non smokers.

Regarding any pubs closures. Whether they can be attributed to boycotts by smokers or not is debateable. However it is also irrelevant. If fewer people are going to the pub and a few close, so what. Fewer people need less pubs anyhow so there are just enough to go round.

This has already been debated to death on the Forum. I expect that a thread merge will happen any time now.

Mod: Threads merged, as suggested.

You seem to class non smokers as the anti smoking people.
The Government imposed the smoking ban, not people who are sensible enough not to smoke. The Government did it in response to reports by the NHS and other health care bodies, pointing to dangers to public health. They did not impose the smoking ban as a result of any demands from non smokers.

Regarding any pubs closures. Whether they can be attributed to boycotts by smokers or not is debateable. However it is also irrelevant. If fewer people are going to the pub and a few close, so what. Fewer people need less pubs anyhow so there are just enough to go round.

This has already been debated to death on the Forum. I expect that a thread merge will happen any time now.

Why should I do that, I'm a non-smoker myself. I just recall endless interviews with people in the run-up to the ban who enthused about what a good idea it was and how they'd certainly return to the pub if they were made non-smoking. Personally speaking I do prefer a non smoking atmosphere, however Alex3659's OP was in regard to why the pubs aren't full of people enjoying the smoke free atmosphere they campaigned for.

I'm a non-smoker, have never picked up a fag in my life, and never will. I'm also VERY anti-smoking, having seen Dad lose 2 of his 3 sisters from smoking related illnesses, and strongly dissapproved of my Cousin smoking while pregnant with both Ellie and Jack, her 2 young kids.

Maybe some of you have heard about the recession. Lots of businesses are closing, not just pubs.

Why should I do that, I'm a non-smoker myself. I just recall endless interviews with people in the run-up to the ban who enthused about what a good idea it was and how they'd certainly return to the pub if they were made non-smoking. Personally speaking I do prefer a non smoking atmosphere, however Alex3659's OP was in regard to why the pubs aren't full of people enjoying the smoke free atmosphere they campaigned for.

Was there a campaign? I must have missed it.

I've done my part, I continue to go to the pub, but I enjoy it more now.

Yes I'm enjoying the smoking ban no end. Even more so when I see those idiots stood outside offices, hospitals, pubs, restaurants, etc looking miserable in the rain getting their latest fix from their cancer sticks. Makes me positively glow with health!

Don't worry, there'll be a smug ban soon, that'll sort it!

I'm a non-smoker, have never picked up a fag in my life, and never will. I'm also VERY anti-smoking, having seen Dad lose 2 of his 3 sisters from smoking related illnesses, and strongly dissapproved of my Cousin smoking while pregnant with both Ellie and Jack, her 2 young kids.

What, her two young kids were smoking too? Outrageous!

Don't worry, there'll be a smug ban soon, that'll sort it!

http://www.hybridcars.com/files/imagecache/article_lead_image/files/graphics/south-park-smug-313.gif

Don't worry, there'll be a smug ban soon, that'll sort it!

Is smug a health hazzard then?

I love the smoking ban. It was not actually imposed as a smoking ban on our pubs, but on all enclosed working environments. This just happened to include pubs.

Still if a few smokers choose to drink at home and poison their kids with fag smoke that is up to them. If the pubs are a little less crowded I have a better chance of finding a seat, less time to queue at the bar, find it easier to park in the car park; all with the bonus of not having to fumigate my clothes when I get home. All possitive as far as I can see.

Is there a smug in the smilies?

Is smug a health hazzard then?

I love the smoking ban. It was not actually imposed as a smoking ban on our pubs, but on all enclosed working environments. This just happened to include pubs.

Still if a few smokers choose to drink at home and poison their kids with fag smoke that is up to them. If the pubs are a little less crowded I have a better chance of finding a seat, less time to queue at the bar, find it easier to park in the car park; all with the bonus of not having to fumigate my clothes when I get home. All possitive as far as I can see.

Is there a smug in the smilies?

Well, smug people make me feel sick, if that's what you mean :)

Well, smug people make me feel sick, if that's what you mean :)

Are you sure it isn't just the fags?

Are you sure it isn't just the fags?

No. They make me cough. Smug makes me sick

No. They make me cough. Smug makes me sick

You appear to have a lot of problems. Don't go to the pub tonight or you might be adding frostbite.

You appear to have a lot of problems. Don't go to the pub tonight or you might be adding frostbite.

Two = a lot? W00t! I'm suddenly rich!!

Quite, why aren't they packed to the rafters with all the anti smoking people who said they avoided pubs because of the smoky atmosphere and smell? Methinks they weren't pubgoers at all.

You underestimate the impact of the ban. Not only are pubs closing because smokers are no longer drinking in them, but the banks have hit the skids because pub takings are down.
Woolworths have called in the receivers because pubs aren't buying extractor fans.
Car manufacturers around the world are laying off thousands of men because smokers aren't driving to the pubs anymore. For the same reason world oil prices have collapsed and the world economy has plunged into recession.

That'll teach those smug politicians to impose a smoking ban :thumbsup:.

I am just about to set off for my favourite pub/restaurant. I am going early because every table is booked ALL EVENING. I managed to persuade them to squeeze in a table for 2 as long as I go early.
The place is booked to capacity despite tonight's football match being cancelled. (The ground is behind the pub).
Good job all those smokers are staying away or I would have been resorting to thr microwave.

What, her two young kids were smoking too? Outrageous!

No, daft begger! She smoked during pregnancy! :loopy:

I just returned from a lovely evening at my favourite pub/restaurant, which was packed.
The food was lovely. Not spoiled by fag smoke. The Jaipur was a delight. Not spoiled by fag smoke.
Sadly there was no one sitting outside the windows to "gloat" at. Not that I have ever felt the need to gloat, but the smoke free experience was a delight.:thumbsup:

I just returned from a lovely evening at my favourite pub/restaurant, which was packed.
The food was lovely. Not spoiled by fag smoke. The Jaipur was a delight. Not spoiled by fag smoke.
Sadly there was no one sitting outside the windows to "gloat" at. Not that I have ever felt the need to gloat, but the smoke free experience was a delight.:thumbsup:

You're back a bit early aren't you? :P

You're back a bit early aren't you? :P

Out early, back early. Not everyone needs to spend 4 hours getting hammered. The place was fully booked. I took the 7.30 slot. Back home about 9.30ish.

Good meal in good company. Are you trying to make a point here?:huh:

Out early, back early. Not everyone needs to spend 4 hours getting hammered. The place was fully booked. I took the 7.30 slot. Back home about 9.30ish.

Good meal in good company. Are you trying to make a point here?:huh:

No, hence the smilie

No, hence the smilie

Point taken. A couple of halves of Jaipur can affect one's etes.:hihi::thumbsup: