Who were the greatest heavyweight boxers in your opinion? I think Ali would've beaten them all. And Jack Dempsey was the hardest pound for pound heavyweight puncher, as far as single blows are concerned.

Who were the greatest heavyweight boxers in your opinion? I think Ali would've beaten them all. And Jack Dempsey was the hardest pound for pound heavyweight puncher, as far as single blows are concerned.

He didn't beat all the heavyweights he did fight, record 56-5-0 (37). Although you could argue that he wasn't at his best for the losses I suppose. But IMO he's probably still the greatest. :D

You cant get better than unbeaten...Rocky Marciano..Granted they have been better Boxers but as a fighter.. nobody to touch him.

You cant get better than unbeaten...Rocky Marciano..Granted they have been better Boxers but as a fighter.. nobody to touch him.

What about Rocky Balboa?:hihi:

Greatest for me has to be Mike Tyson.

Fair enough he's a down and out looser these days but you cant deny him what he was in his hay-day imho.

Greatest for me has to be Mike Tyson.

Fair enough he's a down and out looser these days but you cant deny him what he was in his hay-day imho.

I don't think Mike Tyson can qualify as really being one of the greatest.

Sure he was a vicious puncher, but not so effective as a boxer.

More guys stood up to Mike Tyson than generally is remembered.

James Tillis

Mitch Green

Tony Tucker

Razor Rudock

all gave Tyson their fair share of problems in their fights, and Tyson was unable to blow these guys away like he did with other opponents, and these were supposedly in Tyson's prime period.

James Bone Crusher Smith rarely troubled Tyson except for the dying seconds of the last round in their encounter, however Tyson didn't look too impressive in his points win against him.

And then of course you have Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield who both beat Tyson, perhaps not at his best, but he wasn't that far off his game to use that as an excuse as to why he lost.
He lost those fights simply because he came up against better men on the night.

Many will argue that Tyson had all these other problems outside the ring to deal with, and that's why he lost.
However, many fighters will go through personal problems out of the ring, no better example of this was Muhammed Ali.
However unlike Tyson, Ali managed to overcome all his problems and still produce the goods in the ring.
The very fact that Tyson could not surmount his problems in my opinion is reason enough to cross Tyson off the list.

In my opinion a peak Ali would have been too quick and clever for Tyson to beat.

I also think that even a peak Tyson would have been beaten by a peak Liston and a peak Foreman, both of whom Ali beat, but were very vicious punchers themselves, and we know Tyson hated getting hit hard on his chin.

A peak Tyson Vs a peak Frazier would have been very close to call.
If Tyson connected early he might have stopped Frazier, but if Frazier found his footing and began to smoke, Frazier's vicious and constant body and head punching over 15 rounds may have been too much for Tyson to bear.

Tyson may possibly be the hardest-hitting heavyweight we've ever seen - if you discount the guy who had his gloves dipped in plaster of paris before his title bout. :hihi:

But no, I would not count him as one of the greatest boxers of all time. I think any of the 50s/60s greats would have had far too much nous for him. It doesn't much matter how hard your punches are if you can't land any...

Tyson may possibly be the hardest-hitting heavyweight we've ever seen - if you discount the guy who had his gloves dipped in plaster of paris before his title bout. :hihi:

But no, I would not count him as one of the greatest boxers of all time. I think any of the 50s/60s greats would have had far too much nous for him. It doesn't much matter how hard your punches are if you can't land any...
I think Susie Q may have had something to say about that statement

I think Susie Q may have had something to say about that statement

Apparently Marciano's punching power was measured on a dynameter at more than 1000 pounds in each hand :shocked:. That was when he weighed 190lbs.

Not sure about how Tyson, Dempsey, Foreman etc compare power-wise, or whether there are any official stats on the subject. :suspect:

Who were the greatest heavyweight boxers in your opinion?

The question isn't who was the greatest heavyweight of all time. Alex asked for an opinion and i gave mine. For some reason others decided to turn my opinion in to a comparison between two greats of the sport.

I never jumped on the Ali bandwagon because i haven't seen a huge amount of his fights so therefore he has not exited me that much. Tyson did.... More than any other boxer and that is what i gave my opinion on.

The question isn't who was the greatest heavyweight of all time. Alex asked for an opinion and i gave mine. For some reason others decided to turn my opinion in to a comparison between two greats of the sport.

I never jumped on the Ali bandwagon because i haven't seen a huge amount of his fights so therefore he has not exited me that much. Tyson did.... More than any other boxer and that is what i gave my opinion on.

Fair comment, although I think it unfair to suggest that those who rate Ali are merely jumping on the "Ali bandwagon".

I rate Ali because of his lightening speed and his ability to absorb punishment and the hardest of punches.

As far as Tyson is concerened his skills were found somewhat wanting when he was put in with a strong fast boxer.

Let's put it this way, when Tyson knocks out his opponent he does look good, but when he can't put the guy away and goes the distance, Tyson doesn't exactly impress with his ring savy or ringmanship, in other words he doesn't adapt his fighting style to suit the situation.
When Tyson lost he looked well beaten.

If you look at Ali, whilst he never had the same power of Tyson, and wasn't expected to knock out his opponents,he always seem to think during his fights, so if plan A wasn't working, he'd switch to plan B.
To a certain extent I saw the same clever boxing brain in Evander Holyfield.
Aside from the last few fights, When Ali got beaten he never got knocked spark out, or was well beaten by any opponent.

Ali fully deserves to be mentioned amongst the greatest, Tyson was exciting in his time, but no great all the same.

The question isn't who was the greatest heavyweight of all time.

You didn't spot his mentioning Ali and Jack Dempsey, then? Or hadn't you ever heard of them, so it didn't register what he was really asking?

I think this is an excellent article on how to evalute heavyweight boxers from different eras, well worth the read!;)

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/boxchart1.html

Ali and Joe Louis coming out top in the final analysis.

I think this is an excellent article on how to evalute heavyweight boxers from different eras, well worth the read!;)

http://coxscorner.tripod.com/boxchart1.html

Ali and Joe Loius coming out top in the final analysis.
Analysis charts like that always look good,but a true reflection?I doubt it,Its nice to see Larry Holmes up there though,very under rated IMO as was Sonny Liston I still say when Clay won the championship Liston threw the fight for some reason,thats not taking anything away from Clay I still believe he would have probably pointed it for what its worth heres my all time top 5
1.....Marciano
2.....Tunney
3.....Ali
4.....Louis
5.....Dempsey.
Being in the older bracket I tend to favour the past fighters and the Boxing politics over the last 20 yrs or so has made the Championships a bit of a joke

Analysis charts like that always look good,but a true reflection?I doubt it,Its nice to see Larry Holmes up there though,very under rated IMO as was Sonny Liston I still say when Clay won the championship Liston threw the fight for some reason,thats not taking anything away from Clay I still believe he would have probably pointed it for what its worth heres my all time top 5


No I agree the analysis isn't perfect, but it does make valid points about certain boxers, that perhaps the casual boxing observer that might cite that "Tyson was the best boxer that ever lived" might over look.

As for the Liston fight, well I guess we'll never find out the real truth, although It was clear that Liston couldn't cope with Ali's superior speed.
We all know about the infamous "fantom punch" but I have seen footage from a different angle than the one that was widely broadcast at the time.
The punch itself indeed did connect to Liston's temple, whilst it may not have been in the same league as Foreman or Tyson punch, it still look quick and stiff enough to stun most boxers.
Just like the punch that decked Foreman, I think it's a fair bet that whilst the Liston punch didn't completely turn out the lights it was good enough to persuade Liston that he couldn't beat Ali's speed no mater how hard he tried.
Liston was the Tyson of his day, and that's why I firmly believe that Tyson wouldn't have been able to cope with Ali neither.

You didn't spot his mentioning Ali and Jack Dempsey, then? Or hadn't you ever heard of them, so it didn't register what he was really asking?


Who were the greatest heavyweight boxers in your opinion?

Erm... Yes. I think I read it right the first time and I gave my opinion. I am not a boxing historian and i have never delved in to a time before I was born. That doesn't mean my opinion is invalid.

I am not a boxing historian and i have never delved in to a time before I was born. That doesn't mean my opinion is invalid.

That is true, however If your knowledge about boxing only goes back to Tyson's era then your opinion would be somewhat limited, especially when the 70's is generally considered as a much better era for quality boxers than anything that has proceeded it.

Go back beyond the 70's and you can't escape the greatness of undefeated Rocky Marciano, or Joe Louis who held the heavyweight title for an incredible 11 years with 25 successful defences, a feat noone has yet bettered.

So how far are you going to go back exactly Kingmaker? Did boxing not exist before the 60's and 70's?
I am sure that if we had more established people than yourself commenting on this thread they could bring a whole host of names to the table you have never heard of.

Saying my opinion is limited due to me being younger than you is a tad unfair.

I haven't said Ali wasn't the greatest boxer of all time. I haven't said Foreman never had the hardest punch of all time. What i have done is refrain from talking about them because i simply do not know about them well enough to bring them to the table.

Mike Tyson appeared on the scene at an age when I was interested. He obliterated everyone who stood in front of him for a long time and I watched in awe. For that reason I decided Tyson is the greatest heavyweight for me.

So how far are you going to go back exactly Kingmaker? Did boxing not exist before the 60's and 70's?
I am sure that if we had more established people than yourself commenting on this thread they could bring a whole host of names to the table you have never heard of.

Saying my opinion is limited due to me being younger than you is a tad unfair.

I haven't said Ali wasn't the greatest boxer of all time. I haven't said Foreman never had the hardest punch of all time. What i have done is refrain from talking about them because i simply do not know about them well enough to bring them to the table.

Mike Tyson appeared on the scene at an age when I was interested. He obliterated everyone who stood in front of him for a long time and I watched in awe. For that reason I decided Tyson is the greatest heavyweight for me.

Chill...its all down to personal opinion and unless there was some way of ever getting them all together its a question that could never truly be anxwered.Take my personal favourite,Marciano,on paper boxers such as Holyfield and Lewis should really beat him every day with their ringcraft,but anybody who knew Marciano would just answer..."the man didnt know the meaning of defeat",he just kept coming back at you,these days he would have probably been stopped with some of the damage he took,then they let them carry on and for Marcino to have been ko'd he would have had to have been literally unconcious.
As I said its all down to personal opinion I happen to think that Calzaghe is the best pound for pound fighter ever there again I like to see duck eggs in a fighters records that is my reason for having Tunney at number 2 in the list, if you aint been beat there's nobody better,I give Marciano the edge simply because Tunney lost once as an amateur

So how far are you going to go back exactly Kingmaker? Did boxing not exist before the 60's and 70's?
I am sure that if we had more established people than yourself commenting on this thread they could bring a whole host of names to the table you have never heard of.

Saying my opinion is limited due to me being younger than you is a tad unfair.


Errr I think I mentioned Rocky Marciano and Joe Loius, both fought before the 60's!

My knowledge of boxing goes back to the early 20th century, whilst you are right, the further you go back the harder it is to evaluate, because film footage didn't always exist in the early 20s.
That said however I do know of, and am aware of other top fighters.

If you read my post again, I think you'll find that I made no mention of you being younger.
What I said was, that if you only rate who was the greatest from the Tyson era onward, then naturally your choices are going to be somewhat limited.

If I suggested that Wladimir Klitschko was the greatest boxer ,and I only based my judgement on Klitschko and whoever comes after him ,then it's clear that my choice would be somewhat skewed off base.
Whilst Klitschko might be the greatest within his era, I can't call him great because the era isn't a great one.

That's why I mentioned the 70s era, it was much greater for boxing than the 80s, not necesssarily because my boxing knowledge stops at the 70s.

Errr I think I mentioned Rocky Marciano and Joe Loius, both fought beyond the 60's!

My knowledge of boxing goes back to the early 20th century, whilst you are right, the further you go back the harder it is to evaluate because film footage didn't always exist in the early 20s.
That said however I do know of and am aware of other top fighters.

If you read my post again I think you'll find that I made no mention of you being young.
What I said was that if you only rate who was the greatest from the Tyson era onward then naturally your choices are going to be somewhat limited.

If I suggested that Wladimir Klitschko was the greatest boxer and I only based my judgement on Klitschko and whoever comes after him then it's clear that my choice would be somewhat skewed off base.
Whilst Klitschko might be the greatest within his era, I can't call him great because the era isn't a great one.

That's why I mentioned the 70s era, it was much greater for boxing than the 80s, not necesssarily because my boxing knowledge stops at the 70s.
Whoops...Louis retired in 1951,Marciano retired in 1956

Ali v Marciano...as it happened

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Fight

Whoops...Louis retired in 1951,Marciano retired in 1956

Very funny!;)

In relation to Vidster's comment, when I mentioned "beyond" I meant going back further than the 60's, and that is the context I used the word "beyond."

But to clear up any possible confusion Joe Loius and Rock Marciano fought before the 60's!;)

Very funny!;)

In relation to Vidsters comment, when I mentioned "beyond" I meant going back further than the 60's, and that is the context I used the word "beyond."

But to clear up any possible confusion Joe Loius and Rock Marciano fought before the 60's!;)
Apologies ..misunderstood

Apologies ..misunderstood

No worries, I can see how it could easily be misconstrued.;)

Very interesting thread but its a question that can't be answered.

Very interesting thread but its a question that can't be answered.

Yes, a very difficult question to be answered but a good one nevertheless. With the advancement in training, diet etc over the years, it's difficult to say. In today's era, we have more weight divisions (which I don't like to be honest) and more 'world' titles (which I cannot stand).

One thing that has come to mind - If Rocky Marciano was boxing today, he would be a Cruiserweight. But I suppost that goes for many boxers of yesteryear who would be fighting in different weight categories today.

My personal favourite Heavyweight is Larry Holmes.

My personal favourite Heavyweight is Larry Holmes.

He was a talented boxer but I couldn't stand Holmes as a person.

He direspected Marciano saying he wasn't fit to hold his jockstrap, or words to that effect.
I watch a relatively recent interview(about 5 years old) on ESPN where even long into retirement he was still bitterly critising George Foreman, even the interviewers seem baffled why Holmes was so serious, in what was supposed to be friendy boxing banter of days past.

He really seems to be a grumpy old man for some reason.

He was a talented boxer but I couldn't stand Holmes as a person.

He direspected Marciano saying he wasn't fit to hold his jockstrap, or words to that effect.
I watch a relatively recent interview(about 5 years old) on ESPN where even long into retirement he was still bitterly critising George Foreman, even the interviewers seem baffled why Holmes was so serious, in what was supposed to be friendy boxing banter of days past.

He really seems to be a grumpy old man for some reason.

Yep, I know exactly what interview your referring to :-). I do agree with you. For all his talents as a boxer, he was no where near the same as a person so it seemed. You would have thought in retirement that he would have mellowed out somewhat.

In that interview, he was definitely out of order with the way he carried on. I was only about a year old when Ali and Holmes fought. And years later I remember my dad saying he wanted Ali to do him in but knew he wouldn't. In the 70s, Ali boxed most of that decade as a shadow of his former self.

Yep, I know exactly what interview your referring to :-). I do agree with you. For all his talents as a boxer, he was no where near the same as a person so it seemed. You would have thought in retirement that he would have mellowed out somewhat.

In that interview, he was definitely out of order with the way he carried on. I was only about a year old when Ali and Holmes fought. And years later I remember my dad saying he wanted Ali to do him in but knew he wouldn't. In the 70s, Ali boxed most of that decade as a shadow of his former self.

I'm not sure what Holmes was actually gripping about, it was like he was begrudging Foreman's successful comeback.
But it is Foreman who is the man that gets the interviews, the TV shows (American inventor) and asked to guest commentate on fights not Holmes.
I guess it's part of Holmes personality, but given all his success and wealth in the ring he's still a miserable guy with some sort of chip on his shoulder.

I'm not sure what Holmes was actually gripping about, it was like he was begrudging Foreman's successful comeback.
But it is Foreman who is the man that gets the interviews, the TV shows (American inventor) and asked to guest commentate on fights not Holmes.
I guess it's part of Holmes personality, but given all his success and wealth in the ring he's still a miserable guy with some sort of chip on his shoulder.
Possibly because Holmes wasnt around when we were blessed with the great heavyweights of the seventies and he may be upset because people keep reminding him of that fact and tend to deride his status.

Possibly because Holmes wasnt around when we were blessed with the great heavyweights of the seventies and he may be upset because people keep reminding him of that fact and tend to deride his status.

Maybe so, but nobody was deriding his achievements in the interview described above.

I had high hopes for Ike Ibeabuchi. But whether he would've turned into a great in today's era of Heavyweights is questionable. That fight with David Tua (in '99 I think) is one of my favourites.

I think Ike is locked up now.

I had high hopes for Ike Ibeabuchi. But whether he would've turned into a great in today's era of Heavyweights is questionable. That fight with David Tua (in '99 I think) is one of my favourites.

I think Ike is locked up now.

Yep, Ike Ibeabuchi was someone that would have made an impact on the World scene had he not been imprisoned.
Beating Chris Bryd (KO 5th round) in his prime was no mean feat either.

Yes, a very difficult question to be answered but a good one nevertheless. With the advancement in training, diet etc over the years, it's difficult to say. In today's era, we have more weight divisions (which I don't like to be honest) and more 'world' titles (which I cannot stand).

One thing that has come to mind - If Rocky Marciano was boxing today, he would be a Cruiserweight. But I suppost that goes for many boxers of yesteryear who would be fighting in different weight categories today.

My personal favourite Heavyweight is Larry Holmes.
agree with that,really an under rated fighter,he was unfortunate that he followed on from ali,ruling the division for years,until he was "robbed" ,not once,but twice,when closing in on marciano,s record number of unbeaten defences, however,if larry had known when to get out,i think he would have been remembered more fondly....in my opinion,he is a bit of a "forgotten man"

My candidates

Ali - No real explanation required. Talent beyond measure.

Frasier - Beat the above man fair and square and had unbreakable strength and intensity.

Lewis - Cannot deny the man that post Rahman he mopped up a strong heavyweight division but he can be accused of shirking Klitschko.

Tyson - Personal favourite. Like Lewis fought in a strong heavyweight division and I think his late 80's/early 90's boxing career is overshadowed by his mental demise.

An impossible task to categorically chose one and ultimately boils down to personal favourites. I would go with Frasier. Even though not in my lifetime, but I admire him for the fights I have seen of his.

My candidates

Ali - No real explanation required. Talent beyond measure.

Frasier - Beat the above man fair and square and had unbreakable strength and intensity.

Lewis - Cannot deny the man that post Rahman he mopped up a strong heavyweight division but he can be accused of shirking Klitschko.

Tyson - Personal favourite. Like Lewis fought in a strong heavyweight division and I think his late 80's/early 90's boxing career is overshadowed by his mental demise.

An impossible task to categorically chose one and ultimately boils down to personal favourites. I would go with Frasier. Even though not in my lifetime, but I admire him for the fights I have seen of his.

There is no doubt that Frazier was a formidable fighter that threw one of the most awesome punches I have ever seen when he decked Ali in their first encounter.
Although Tyson was a ferocious puncher, I haven't seen any single Tyson punch that was awesome as the Frazier punch that I alluded to previously.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ3aUmSBSbY

But that just goes to show how awesome and seemingly invincible Foreman was when he bounced Frazier up and down on the canvas like a yo yo in both their encounters.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UI8EQTa1cbM&feature=related
Foreman destroyed the incredible physique of man in Norton in 2 rounds, whom Foreman described as Norton's physique as one of the greatest human specimens that he had ever seen.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=StBOteBNmEU