Does anyone else think Hillsborough Corner or Chav Central as my mates call it looks a right mess?

The building that curves around the corner that looks like all the frontage has been blown off is just awful!

It's been like this for well over a year now, the whole of Hillsborough corner is just so rundown and depressing to look at.

When is the council going to get their acts together and do something about it :confused:

Hillsborough is a complete **** tip.

Hillsborough corner is, as you say, a right mess. Its hard to see how the shop fronts get so smashed up.

Dont know why it is 'chav central' to be honest. Wouldnt have said Hilsborough is a very chav area so far as the housing goes - but the shopping centre itself, from Coop to Morrissons, is just horrible. It only seems to be able to support crap shops and lots of pubs.

Pubs which seem to attract people from elsewhere, who turn up on a Friday/Saturday/Monday/Thursday night, get drunk on cheap beer, fight, vomit, shag, smash the place up, then get buses and taxis back to where they live.

It is such a dump, i lived most of my life in hillsboro and my parents still live there. Every time i drive through i comment on the state of the corner (whether any one else is in the car or not). It looks like a really poor rundown and crime ridden area when it isnt. Ironic that supertram is ten years old and the emtpty shops are growing in number. I think the council got it wrong, the area should have been pedestrianised with trams and buses diverted via penistone road or langsett road. The number of pubs and takeaways concentrated in that area also doesnt help.

Originally posted by Herbert
I think the council got it wrong, the area should have been pedestrianised with trams and buses diverted via penistone road or langsett road. The number of pubs and takeaways concentrated in that area also doesnt help.

Absolutely! I remember the 'artists impressions' of Hillsborough corner when the tram was being built, all nice shops, very busy, pleasant in most respects. Very different from the stark reality.

I'm not sure what it is about the shops on the corner of Holme Lane. It seems that nobody can keep a business open there for more than 5 minutes. It's a favourite venue for fly-by-nights like firework shops, christmas decorations, etc.

I try and avoid the area for the most part these days. I used to go down there all the time about 10-12 years ago.

Once again, the council cannot do anything about it. The properties on Holme Lane are privately owned and the council have no authority to do anything but "encourage" the owner in question to sort them out. You can write to the local MP to raise the issue whereupon he/she will urge the council to take some action whereupon they will inform him/her that they are doing all that they legally can. Until sufficient legislation is put in place the council have no powers to act and are as frustrated as the rest of us at the lack of progress there.

It does proper look a dump and poor area when in reality Hillsborough isn't judging by the houseprices, my nextdoor neighbour just sold their house for £180k and it isn't anything special!

I don't think the tram can be blamed for the closure of businesses on Hillsborough Corner and Holme Lane.

When friends and family come to visit me I do my best to direct them another way like via Rivelin valley rather than through Hillsborough Corner, lol!

No chavs in Hillsborough?! Come on the place is crawling with them at the weekends!

I have not been to Hillsboro corner for a few weeks but the derelict buiding was going to be a sandwich shop.....Harboro or some such name........they were to buy next to The Hungry Wolf in Infirmary Road, another derelict site........anyone got an update please?

And who owns Edwin Starrs chippy in

I have not been to Hillsboro corner for a few weeks but the derelict buiding was going to be a sandwich shop.....Harboro or some such name........they were to buy next to The Hungry Wolf in Infirmary Road, another derelict site........anyone got an update please?

And who owns Edwin Starrs chippy in Holme lane now?

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
I don't think the tram can be blamed for the closure of businesses on Hillsborough Corner and Holme Lane.


The tram isn't to blame for shop closures at all. The point is that the idea of putting the tram through there was to get people to visit Hillsborough, and get more shops to open. It just hasn't happened, that's all.

If anything, the tram has made it so bloody difficult to drive through Hillsborough that nobody bothers.

One of the local shop owners once said that Langsett Road had become something along the lines of "the longest cul-de-sac in the world" and blamed it for the closure of his business.

Well that's Hillsborough for you ...

Not worth the bother, unless you bored and want to burn stuff ...

I live at hillsborough corner. The tram is to blame for all the ****.... it makes life so difficult getting into hillsborough unless you catch it.

Not many chavs live in hillsborough, cant afford the house prices... trams provide them with a perfect means to get here.

It looks like chav central due to the excessive amounts of kosovan takeaways and cheap booze, in pubs like the ball.

Oh the Ball is the dingiest little hole i have ever been in


EWWWWWWW

The Ball is just full of kids, i hate going into it, and the so called "Harios" on hillsborough corner which has been "Opening Soon" for the past year, well i aint seen no builders or anybody doing it up, have you?

OK, so the corner looks a mess at the moment but the area is still generally good, House prices are still strong and the vast majority of people who live in the area are friendly and good spirited. The new collage should help the shopping area with more people frequenting the place on a regular basis.
10 mins in to town on the tram and 10 mins walk to the rivelin valley, Sorry but I like the place :clap:

No argument here. HB corner is a complete tip. However it always seems to be very busy during the day in my experiance.

BoppinBruce: I'd like to know what's happening with the shop on the corner. According to the sign outside it's been bought by Harios, who own a place on Middlewood Road but it's been derelict for months. Anyone know?

The derelict 'opening soon' Harios used to be the Hillsborough Hotel. I have seen pictures of it and it looked like a fabulous building.

It is a dump though, .. co-op/charity shop/pork sarnie shop/charity shop/pork sarnie shop/charity shop...

anyone see a theme here?

Yeah HC is a complete dump and just makes me want to top myself... Try to only go once a year...Good if you're into Chav spotting thou (one must try to be positive).

Originally posted by MissGobby
the so called "Harios" on hillsborough corner which has been "Opening Soon" for the past year, well i aint seen no builders or anybody doing it up, have you?

I reckon that whoever bought the site at HB corner is just sitting there waiting to sell it for a profit, and has no intention of doing anything. Yes the area's a dump, and yes a lot of it's been indirectly caused by the tram. The Council were confidently predicting an upsurge in business due to the tram, but the trade from car drivers has gone downhill cos they can't get near the place. Well done council, another roaring success. Now where can you spoil things next?

There was a lot of building work going on in the empty building on Hills Corner last year. I thought that at last, something was being done but it's never been finished. Having lived in Hillsborough most of my life I do love it. However, I am ashamed by the state of the corner. It has so much potential with two decent sized shops vacant .... Greenwoods and Harios/Oxfam. I do think that lackof accessibilty and bad traffic management has a lot to do with it. Ok, so the tram runs straight into Hillsborough, but not everyone wants to use the tram. It's a nightmare for cars and residents alike.

I just feel it's such a shame that as Hillsborough is seen as a fairly affluent area, it misses out on potential regeneration money that maybe could helpsort some of the problems.

what they've done to the traffic flow through the corner should be illegal. It's incredibly difficult to actually get to anywhere.

I live on walkley lane, so if I want to get towards the corner I have the option of an illegal right turn at the bottom of walkley lane (as the police and pretty much everyone else does), which then means I can't turn right towards the jet garage.
Or I can go the approved way down past the medical centre and behind the weir, but then it's a left turn only onto holme lane. From which point I can either do a U turn, make an illegal right turn, or drive through the housing estate to come out up by the co-op.
If you come from the co-op end you can turn neither right nor left at the main junction, but you can cut through the corner of the housing estate to go right onto holme lane, no way to go left to the jet garage though.
And if you come from holme lane towards that elusive jet garage, you can't turn right onto langsett road without going through the tram gate, so the only option is to procede to the next roundabout and double back on yourself.

It truly is the worse single junction i've ever had the misfortune to navigate.

For anyone who hasn't seen it in a while -

http://www.thetrams.co.uk/supertram/middlewood/hillsboroughj.jpg

Not sure how old this picture is but it looked the same last time I was there. It really does look a mess.

As a fairly frequent visitor to Hillsborough I have to agree that the tram seems to be the main cause of the blight in the shopping area. The road and pavements from the 'Corner' up to the junction with Dykes Hall road are just too narrow for pedestrian comfort and the positioning of the outbound bus stop outside the greengrocers is ridiculous.

We're lucky that we can approach Hillsboro' via Worral and Dykes Hall Road and have easy access to the Co-Op car park, but it's understandable if people from Stannington and Walkley give it a miss altogether.

Can't imagine what kind of retail activity would be viable on Hillsboro' Corner given the volume of traffic on Holme Lane/Bradfield Road, - perhaps these units might be better developed as offices ?

So what's the solution to the infamous Hillsbro Corner traffic problem then? It's clear nobody really understands it (even people that live there) or they just ignore the rules altogether. It's holding back development of the Corner and the whole of central Hillsbro. Visitors are continually getting lost and it's very difficult to direct them. I know, I've tried - but I can see their eyes glazing over when I say you can't go straight on there you've got to go left up there, right there, turn there, stand on your head, whistle 'Dixie' and then go straight on.

How about if we just let the cars go where they want, for the sake of simplicity, for a trial period of 6 months. Would the trams really get held up so badly? Could we make it 20mph around the crossroads and no HGVs except deliveries allowed. Discourage traffic but don't make it impossible. Would that help or make it worse? What other options are there? The signage is still terrible and the pedestrian bit across Holme Lane is so confusing it's dangerous.

how about putting in a roundabout for cars and a tunnel for the tram?

oh and maybe a bridge like thing for pedestrians.

Originally posted by Bilge
How about if we just let the cars go where they want, for the sake of simplicity, for a trial period of 6 months. Would the trams really get held up so badly? Could we make it 20mph around the crossroads and no HGVs except deliveries allowed. Discourage traffic but don't make it impossible. Would that help or make it worse? What other options are there? The signage is still terrible and the pedestrian bit across Holme Lane is so confusing it's dangerous.


What are you suggesting? That the motorist (who contributes £42 billion per annum through various 'road taxes') be allowed to go where he or she wants? To use the very roads he or she has paid for? Not to have to wait for another half-empty tram passes through? Even to SHARE with the hallowed Supertram?

Don't make you address known, or Sheffield City Council will be round to take you away before you can say "Well, where you want to go is two minutes away but seems as you're in a car....,"

Depite living here, I'm not going to particularly defend Hillsborough, it does look a tip at the moment - scruffy shops, nasty signage, bad traffic problems etc, but I have to say that the corner shop on Hillsborough Corner is (IMO) architecturally very nice. While I wish he'd hurry up and do something with it, at least it *is* in the process of being renovated, and at least it's no longer the scruffy old Oxfam shop.

Under the roundabout we could have shops, a public space and an aquarium.

Actually, Hillsborough Corner is testament to this council's ill-conceived public transport policies and the ridiculous priorities afforded to the likes of Supertram, totally at the behest of the businesses and residents of - in this instance - Hillsborough.

For that reason alone, it is a reminder of how important Supertram is to this council, possibly by way of an attempt to justify its massive costs whilst the rest of us go into a sub-bracket entitled 'other road (ab)users'.

It's a daily reminder at the gross incompetence of our city chiefs. It speaks of businesses going bust; of there being nobody else interested in setting up a business where customers cannot get to and cannot park outside when they finally find their way round.

It resembles a Toy-Town that's been trashed. Which it has, by the people supposedly elected to represent the very people of suburbs like Hillsborough.

Simple question: Would you set up a business on Hillsborough Corner?

Precisely.

Let's not start tram-bashing too much. The tram is fantastic - I just wish it was part of a proper region-wide system, but it's only half-hearted and doesn't go to most places you'd want. The same goes for Manchester and Nottm. Cities in Europe have proper tram systems that work - we can do the same here. So we should try and work with the tram not moan about it all the time. Someone mentioned house prices in Hills - well, the tram has influenced that , making it a place where people want to live more and more because of a reliable, pleasant, easy commute to work/college and for leisure.

Yes, I would set up a business on Hillsbro Corner because there are a lot of people walking past every day, and some of them even have money to spend on things. At the moment, at 'Hillsbro Interchange' for example, you can't even buy a newspaper or a Mars bar anywhere nearby. Not every business is geared to car drivers, not yet anyway.

It's not sustainable for every single person to have a car, drive it where they want all the time, and expect to park right outside wherever they're going. Particularly in cities like Sheff where many streets were only built for horses and carts. Surely there is a solultion for the Hillsbro Cnr traffic problem that is an improvement on what is there at present? Allowing car drivers just a little bit more freedom (but not too much) might help, I don't know.

It's true, if you get peckish around Hillsborough Interchange, you're stuffed ...

I live in Hillsborough, and moved here because I rely on public transport. The tram is great, but even I can't see how it would get too bothered by cars not going straight through...well, they do, really, don't they??? If you come down Middlewood Rd, from the Park side, is it just me, or do you get to a point where you actually *can't* stay on the right side of the law?? I think you're then not allowed to go left, right, or straight on, so if you missed turning right towards Hillsborough Place, you've had it. Is that right? Must go out for a wander and check...

The council must be having a major rethink about how the tram interacts with traffic after the terrible accident this week. Hope they come up with some good ideas because we really need them.

Originally posted by Bilge
Under the roundabout we could have shops, a public space and an aquarium.

Like it:hihi:

as well as fragrant public conveniences, and quaint street traders selling quality sports socks (3 for a £), lighters, wrapping paper and the like. It would be great.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
It resembles a Toy-Town that's been trashed. Which it has, by the people supposedly elected to represent the very people of suburbs like Hillsborough.

Back in 2001 I and the other five LibDem councillors representing Hillsborough Corner were trying to get it changed. The People obviously didn't want it changing because The People voted in the Labour councillors who had been arguing for no change. One of the first things the Labour council did was abandon any propsals to look at Hillsborough Corner.

--
JGH

So what were your plans jgh?

Probably along the lines of what Lib Dems have done to York.

Too much to comment on here, but a regular look at www.thisisyork.co.uk (http://www.thisisyork.co.uk)

and the Readers' Letters page inparticular, will bring home some of their wonderful plans - all aimed at The Motorist which have sent loads of long-established businesses packing.

Originally posted by march
For anyone who hasn't seen it in a while -

http://www.thetrams.co.uk/supertram/middlewood/hillsboroughj.jpg

Not sure how old this picture is but it looked the same last time I was there. It really does look a mess.

OH NO! looks like my favorite second hand shops been boarded up, got some lovely buys there over the years, never drove around HB corner but it you take your life in your hands crossing that corner to the bus stops.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
What are you suggesting? That the motorist (who contributes £42 billion per annum through various 'road taxes') be allowed to go where he or she wants? To use the very roads he or she has paid for? Not to have to wait for another half-empty tram passes through? Even to SHARE with the hallowed Supertram?


Well the tram does share the road to Malin Bridge and Middlewood, all the way from St Phillips, - except for the 'hallowed' ground at Hillsboro' Corner. The traffic planners need to take a fresh look at the arrangements here and come up with something different

Originally posted by sparrow0114
It's true, if you get peckish around Hillsborough Interchange, you're stuffed ...

I live in Hillsborough, and moved here because I rely on public transport. The tram is great, but even I can't see how it would get too bothered by cars not going straight through...well, they do, really, don't they??? If you come down Middlewood Rd, from the Park side, is it just me, or do you get to a point where you actually *can't* stay on the right side of the law?? I think you're then not allowed to go left, right, or straight on, so if you missed turning right towards Hillsborough Place, you've had it. Is that right? Must go out for a wander and check...

Yep it's true. They put up a new sign recently which forbids through traffic. Unfortunately when you reach that sign short of reversing back up the main road there is no where to go... Smart planning, I was very impressed the first time I spotted that sign (and had forgotten about it when detailing where I couldn't drive in my ealier post).

So to get from middlewood rd to langsett road you must be prescient and turn right before seeing the no through road sign. Then turn left and left onto holme lane. Straight through the lights, to the roundabout, around the roundabout, back to the traffic lights and then turn left.

Wow - I wish i'd thought up that genius scheme for reducing congestion!

Originally posted by Cyclone
Yep it's true. They put up a new sign recently which forbids through traffic. Unfortunately when you reach that sign short of reversing back up the main road there is no where to go... Smart planning, I was very impressed the first time I spotted that sign (and had forgotten about it when detailing where I couldn't drive in my ealier post).

So to get from middlewood rd to langsett road you must be prescient and turn right before seeing the no through road sign. Then turn left and left onto holme lane. Straight through the lights, to the roundabout, around the roundabout, back to the traffic lights and then turn left.

Wow - I wish i'd thought up that genius scheme for reducing congestion!

YEAH HOW SUCK ASS IS THAT!!!!!

I have lived in the boro all my life (:loopy:) and the tram has kinda spoilt it. traffic is a nightmare and the signs confuse me...

......................

Originally posted by Bilge
So what were your plans jgh?

Peak hours restrictions between Ripley Street and Hillsborough Corner.

ADEQUATE SIGNAGE!!!! at Middlewood and Shalesmoor so that traffic that wasn't going TO Hillsborough didn't find its way funnelled into Hillsborough.

Labour candidates/councillors in the area campaigned for 24-hour restrictions. I have the leaftlets somewhere.

--
JGH

Sounds good, hope the council does summat similar.

What about the rest of Hillsbro Corner? Would you build us a nice shop/kiosk near the bus station selling newspapers and mars bars?

Deleted by me!

Hillsborough corner and centre seems to have more chavs than I've ever seen anywhere else. I feel out of place as I don't where a baseball cap or spit.

The area is an absolute tip. It is embarrasing.

What the city needs is an UNDERGROUND tram system which would avoid these problems but that costs money which we don't have

I wrote to Angela Smith, the new Hillsborough MP, about the state of Hillsborough corner and received this reply...

"Thank your for correspondence regarding the Shop on Hillsborough corner. I have spoken to the owner this afternoon (17-05-05) who assures me building work is going at the present time.

Apparently the owner was having difficulties with a neighboring property, this has now been resolved. A new shop front is waiting delivery which will improve this part Hillsborough once installed.

The actual building will be new eating restaurant with seating upstairs. The owner is hoping to have the whole project finished and open by the summer.

I hope this answers your enquiry.

I will keep an eye on the progress of the work on this building to make sure it does get finished and improve the facilities in Hillsborough and the appearance of Hillsborough corner."

So fingers crossed?...

the whole hillsbro corner tram gate wants scrapping. If i get the 0805 tram fram middlewood it is usually anything upto 15 minutes later by the time it reaches hillsbro corner.Simply because cars in front are stopping to turn right into taplin rd to avoid going throught the tram gate! Defeating the object!!!

Hillsbro corner should be opened up traffic should be able to come down middlewood road straight up langsett rd with No right or left turns into bradfield road or holme lane

*Pubs which seem to attract people from elsewhere, who turn up on a Friday/Saturday/Monday/Thursday night, get drunk on cheap beer, fight, vomit, shag, smash the place up, then get buses and taxis back to where they live.*


Yeah, what is it about the pubs of Hillsborough that attract these sorts? It was the same 20yrs ago and probably long before that. Deep End's not bad but the only decent pub (that I know of) in the vicinity is New Barrack Tavern.

And what is it with pork sandwich shops? I'm probably inviting sarky comments from Blades fans here but it seems like every few feet theres one.

Originally posted by gularscute
*Pubs which seem to attract people from elsewhere, who turn up on a Friday/Saturday/Monday/Thursday night, get drunk on cheap beer, fight, vomit, shag, smash the place up, then get buses and taxis back to where they live.*


Yeah, what is it about the pubs of Hillsborough that attract these sorts? It was the same 20yrs ago and probably long before that. Deep End's not bad but the only decent pub (that I know of) in the vicinity is New Barrack Tavern.

And what is it with pork sandwich shops? I'm probably inviting sarky comments from Blades fans here but it seems like every few feet theres one. What part of Hillsborough is Hilsborough corner? I've forgotten! Don't say the corner of Hillsborough or the angular bit!

Don't know it - but you'd have to go some to beat Woodhouse centre (all the shops boarded up)!

Well wife and I have had enough and we're moving out. When we moved in a good few years back it was great to be near a good shopping centre that we could walk or drive to. But it's gone downhill and will continue to go down hill. We can't drive there easily, can't drive through it at all, and at night you'd hardly go there for a nice drink, unless you're practicing for the world vomit / pi**ing championships. So we're off, never thought we'd move away but then we never thought we'd want to.

Originally posted by pitsmoorlad
Well wife and I have had enough and we're moving out. When we moved in a good few years back it was great to be near a good shopping centre that we could walk or drive to. But it's gone downhill and will continue to go down hill. We can't drive there easily, can't drive through it at all, and at night you'd hardly go there for a nice drink, unless you're practicing for the world vomit / pi**ing championships. So we're off, never thought we'd move away but then we never thought we'd want to.
Way to infate your house price - talk about how bad the area youre trying to move from is on a public, sheffield based forum!

What is it with you people?? Do something about it if it bothers you so much, take the corner back from the chavs! Glad to see at least a few of you doing something like complaining to MP's etc - the more people do that type of thing, the more chance there is of something getting done.

If you feel up to it challenge these people puking or ******* in the street - theyre likely to be wasted so wont put up much of a fight. If I catch someone ******* in the street, I like to push them over then berate them as they pee all over themselves. I like to think it will make them think twice the next time. Not something everyone can do, but I saw a petite woman laying into two young guys for ******* up against a wall not too long ago and they just stood there like naughty schoolkids!
There will be light around the corner if the whole community does something.

Originally posted by semerpus
the whole hillsbro corner tram gate wants scrapping. If i get the 0805 tram fram middlewood it is usually anything upto 15 minutes later by the time it reaches hillsbro corner.Simply because cars in front are stopping to turn right into taplin rd to avoid going throught the tram gate! Defeating the object!!!

Hillsbro corner should be opened up traffic should be able to come down middlewood road straight up langsett rd with No right or left turns into bradfield road or holme lane

With the effect of all the traffic from Stocksbridge, Oughtibridge, Deepcar, Middlewood etc will use it as a way of avoiding Penistone Road into town. Which is probably a good idea. If they then forced the traffic off Infirmary Road and down onto Penistone Road at the traffic lights where the Lexus garage is, it would solve the problems of the queue of traffic at Hillsborough Park in a morning and everyone, including buses and trams would get to their destinations quicker. Once you pass the Lexus garage the lack of traffic lights to Hillfoot Bridge means that the traffic through this stetch does flow more freely.

But of course, this is the car loving Sheffield City Council we are talking about. Their answer to the problem (as per Stir last night)? A Bus Lane on Penistone Road.

Originally posted by floyd77
Way to infate your house price - talk about how bad the area youre trying to move from is on a public, sheffield based forum!



Don't be silly, I agree with everything the esate agents brochure says, "close to local amenities and shops, ideal for Supertram etc. ..much sought after location" And the house is sold anyway. As for Hillsborough corner, smelly, chav infested, vomit magnet, good riddance. Until the authorities / law makers / bleeding heart goody goodies / anti discipline idiots decide that wrong-doers should be punished, and not sent to swim with the dolphins, it won't get better.

Whats silly about it?
If you were thinking of moving to hillsborough, dont you think you might have a wee gander at the only popular sheffield based forum to see if anyones talking about hillsborough?

Then when they see x-residents calling it a 'smelly, chav infested, vomit magnet' it may put them off somewhat, enough people get put off the longer houses stay on the market, and the lower the prices get.

Seems perfectly sensible to me.


Sooooo......everyone stop bitching about it, and start doing something!

**BACK ON TOPIC**

I've seen an old bloke up a ladder at the building on Hillsborough Corner today - being supervised by the owner "Nico"...

Progress perhaps??

I love Hilsboro' corner. If you want clinically clean and traffic free I suggest you go to meadowhell.

As 'Barnygumble' says, it's not all bad. There are few, if any other places in Sheff' with as wide a range of shops and services.

The people are indeed friendly and kind. Real 'old' shefielders. And as for the traffic, there are plenty of pelicans, and though it is a bottleneck, I don't find it any more congested than most places at rush hours.

I think you'll find that most of the businesses in the area are doing very nicely thank you v much. There is always a natural 'life span' for certain businesses. Leases end, owners move area, die, etc etc etc.

So why not give it time to settle? Ten years isn't that long in terms of the re-growth of an area.

As for chavs , what are they but young trendy people many of whom live in the area and have every right to be there. AND COME ON, DON'T LETS START MAKING OUT THAT ******* IN THE STREET OFFENDS US SO MUCH . The few who do it are nobs , no doubt but big deal. Maybe re-opening the public toilets that were next to the baths might be a start.

Love the 'corner', it's a dying breed of socially essential areas.

Lest 'Meadowhells' should flourish. AAAAAARGH!

Deleted by me!

Originally posted by SUPERTYKE
I love Hilsboro' corner. If you want clinically clean and traffic free I suggest you go to meadowhell.

As 'Barnygumble' says, it's not all bad. There are few, if any other places in Sheff' with as wide a range of shops and services.

The people are indeed friendly and kind. Real 'old' shefielders. And as for the traffic, there are plenty of pelicans, and though it is a bottleneck, I don't find it any more congested than most places at rush hours.

I think you'll find that most of the businesses in the area are doing very nicely thank you v much. There is always a natural 'life span' for certain businesses. Leases end, owners move area, die, etc etc etc.

So why not give it time to settle? Ten years isn't that long in terms of the re-growth of an area.

As for chavs , what are they but young trendy people many of whom live in the area and have every right to be there. AND COME ON, DON'T LETS START MAKING OUT THAT ******* IN THE STREET OFFENDS US SO MUCH . The few who do it are nobs , no doubt but big deal. Maybe re-opening the public toilets that were next to the baths might be a start.

Love the 'corner', it's a dying breed of socially essential areas.

Lest 'Meadowhells' should flourish. AAAAAARGH!

i've never heard chavs described as "young trendy people" before.

As I said, I think you'll find that MOST businesses in the area are doing very well indeed.

Before you start to write Hillsboro' off as a shopping centre I suggest that you do your very own little survey of the area.

All you have to do is count the businesses in the area, and then see what % the four businesses that closed which you mentioned makes of the total.

I think that you will find that it is a minute %age.

I refer the honourable gentleman back to the question I answered earlier; ie businesses come and go through natural wastage.
--------------------------------

I couldn't give a poo poo how you or anyone else refer to 'chavs'. CLEARLY YOU ARE VERY YOUNG AND VERY TRENDY.


If you dislike the area so much, why not hop the Super T to Meadowhell. We wont miss you, honest.

Unfortunately I am not very young. Nor am I overly trendy.
There are plenty of sites that will explain what a chav is, trendy is not a common word in that description.
I don't shop in Hillsborough, despite living just up the road, I get in my car and go to meadowhall, or use the bullring when I stay in birmingham.

its the surrounding area that feed hillsbourgh that the problem
i remember growing up in parson cross and one family shoped at hillsborough, they where seen as posh for that and if you lived there you have made it in there eyes.

I'm so surprised that you're not young and trendy cyclone!

Was your comment on my definition of 'chavs' (adding nothing whatsoever to the subject) an attempt to undermine my credibility? Why else bother going to the trouble of even mentioning it?

You clearly have a need to categorise, compartmentalise and possibly stereotype people. Does it make you feel less threatened, more comfortable, when you're out and about?

How cosmopolitan, you get to use the Bullring, how I envy you.
You must have so much money.

I refer the honourable 'windy one' to the question I answered earlier, i.e, ' I don't give a poo how the word is defined,' and I certainly wouldn't bother going to web sites to try to enrich my understanding of the word.

Shall we return to the thread?

Cyclone, what area are you looking to move to, out of interest?

you were making a point that chavs were not a problem. At least that's what I understood by this comment;

As for chavs , what are they but young trendy people many of whom live in the area and have every right to be there.

I was simply replying that you have clearly misunderstood what the earlier comments in the thread about chavs meant as you do not know the meaning of the word.
Without agreeing on common definitions of every word we use, we may as well be speaking a different language.

I don't have a need to do categorise people, but without speaking to every one of them it's normal and convenient to group people into some bracket for the purpose of a discussion.
Other people have complained about the behaviour of certain groups in the corner, particularly once they've started drinking, you seem to think that it's acceptable.

So - I say that the chavscum who inhabit the corner are a problem and one of the reasons that many people no longer like going there, how do you reply to that oh honourable super one?

BoroughGal - not sure, but somewhere like Aston, Treeton, Barlborough or somewhere similar.

Its all the boy racers in the Morrisons car-park that have started to wreck it! :mad:

it is not just hillsborough that is an eyesore. most of the north of sheffield is truly awful. parson cross, southey green, SHIRECLIFFE and firth park are just a few examples of how run down that side of the city is.

what a contrast to the decent areas such as dore, totley, fulwood and ranmoor etc.

Originally posted by trainwalker
it is not just hillsborough that is an eyesore. most of the north of sheffield is truly awful. parson cross, southey green, SHIRECLIFFE and firth park are just a few examples of how run down that side of the city is.

what a contrast to the decent areas such as dore, totley, fulwood and ranmoor etc.

Yeah, and the house prices reflect it. Unfortunately we can't all afford Dore, Totley, Fulwood and Ranmoor, some of us just have to "put up" with Hillsborough and the North side of Sheffield. But I'm sorry that we at chavsville offend you so much.

Originally posted by BoroughGal
Yeah, and the house prices reflect it. Unfortunately we can't all afford Dore, Totley, Fulwood and Ranmoor, some of us just have to "put up" with Hillsborough and the North side of Sheffield. But I'm sorry that we at chavsville offend you so much.

im a north sheffielder. not that im proud to admit that i live in a district that is run down and depressing. there is not much wrong with the north side of sheffield its just some of the horrible people that cause vandalism and crime and graffiti that make it such a bad area to live in.

it is quite vibrant round there. There is always a lively atmosphere and some good shops. I think the indoor precinct is going to the dogs.

the problem is that :

a. it looks a mess.

b. a lot of the people who are around the area don't give a stuff about keeping it clean

Originally posted by trainwalker
it is not just hillsborough that is an eyesore. most of the north of sheffield is truly awful. parson cross, southey green, SHIRECLIFFE and firth park are just a few examples of how run down that side of the city is.

what a contrast to the decent areas such as dore, totley, fulwood and ranmoor etc.

Nowt wrong wi' Shirecliffe pal!!!

At least in the North of the city you're not surrounded by posh ***** who wouldn't give you the time of day never mind calling you "love".

Gimme real life, down to earth people any day.

I think that hillsborough just reflects the general run down appearance of the city as a whole, the council is still paying off debts from the student games,the canal basin, the failed market fiasco,the supertram etc etc... so while other cities are now benefiting from a country wide bouyant economy, Sheffield is still trying to pay off old debts.
theres nowhere to park because the car parks are full most days,so anyone who has the means goes to meadowhall.
The buses are crap (im a 4 a day person) as for hillsbro which i go through/shop in all the time, it is a real shame to see it like this as most people do like it including myself. more parking is needed, hard to do i know.
would it really be so terrible to open up all the roads, get rid of the restrictions that are everywhere yellow lines etc,were all hemmed in and claustrophobic, wrapped up in cotton wool. most drivers arent stupid, the supertram would take/make its place on the roads just like the rest of us. I'd like a 6 month trial to see how bad/good it'd be.
its very sad to see how some threads turn into personal slanging matches i wish that we could stop judging each other and come up with some solutions to the stuff we talk about on here that might get seen by someone in authority.

See this link dated 02/10/2003

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=668583

What has this guy done exactly? I presume he was getting paid. I want his job.

Adam

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyclone
[B]you were making a point that chavs were not a problem. At least that's what I understood by this comment;
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems that you understand what you wish to understand and very little of the truth or reality.

Definitions for the perusal of the 'Windy One'--;

YOUNG--; Not far advanced in years;
TRENDY--; General direction or tendency, especially in fashion;

I hope you agree now that my definition of 'Chav' was not so spectacularly inaccurate, however loose or general it was. At least, I wasn't being unfair or basing opinions on class or 'type'.

To blame your, 'Chavscum', (as you so quaintly refer to them), for the general state of an area is tantamount to racism, and is at best an hysterical and misguided attack on a vast spectrum of people, based in fear and ignorance.
(And from one so enlightened in the enigmatic affairs of our fine and diverse young people.)

I would remind you that Hitlers' Germany fed upon, and was created by, the prejudice and mis-trust of a frightened people.

I think that you will find that not all of the young people around 'The Corner' are walking around ******* on everything and offering to remove your tonsils along with the contents of your wallet.
There were 'Teds', 'Greasers', 'Punks', 'Skins' &c &c all of whom were demonised and feared to a far greater degree than your Chavs and I would say with far greater justification, allowing of course, for the many exceptions to these 'rules'.

Hillsboro is more complex. And your blaming of a minority for the majority of problems says more about biggotry and the perpetuation of an underclass, than it does about the need to improve ourselves before we can improve an area.

I will try not to offend your acronymic sensibilities in future, Cyclone, as long as you try not to mis-quote me, or twist my words.

I seem to recall you attacking my comments in a previous posting on quite another subject some time ago. Hmmm.

You might take some guidance from 'Suzyoo', she refuses to tangle with the personal or the trivial and makes a lot of sence.


'The truth?' You couldn't handle the truth'.

well i'm glad you've cleared that up.

So what is your opinion about the chavs in the area. Other people have suggested that they are a problem, do you agree or not.

Funnily enough, I do know what young and trendy mean.

just so that you know, this is the commonly understood meaning of chav;
Chav is a derogatory slang term currently in popular usage throughout England. It refers to a subculture negatively-stereotyped as being uneducated, uncultured and prone to antisocial or immoral behavior. The label is typically (although not exclusively) applied to teenagers and young adults of white working class or lower-middle class origin. A male chav is sometimes referred to as a chavster and a female as a chavette, although chav is typically used to refer to both sexes.


Racism - only if that can really be applied to ones own race as i'm also caucasian, and even then, not really as it defines a sub group, not a stereotype to apply to the entire race.

Anyway, if you bother to read the thread, you'll see that i blamed it mainly on the problems that bad traffic management have created. Other people suggested chav's, I was just puzzled by your defence of them and apparent misunderstanding of the word.

How is that I misquoted you, it was a straight copy and paste from your post... Maybe you can explain.
As for chavs , what are they but young trendy people

Originally posted by Cyclone
well i'm glad you've cleared that up.

So what is your opinion about the chavs in the area. Other people have suggested that they are a problem, do you agree or not.

Funnily enough, I do know what young and trendy mean.

just so that you know, this is the commonly understood meaning of chav;


Racism - only if that can really be applied to ones own race as i'm also caucasian, and even then, not really as it defines a sub group, not a stereotype to apply to the entire race.

Anyway, if you bother to read the thread, you'll see that i blamed it mainly on the problems that bad traffic management have created. Other people suggested chav's, I was just puzzled by your defence of them and apparent misunderstanding of the word.

How is that I misquoted you, it was a straight copy and paste from your post... Maybe you can explain.
============================================


My opinion about Chavs is the same as my opinion about any other group of people, i.e some are good others not so.

But once again, you refuse to acknowledge my point . I wont dignify your hysterical rantings with any further replies, so, for the last time;-
Your definition of the word Chav is your own 'preferred version', of a word that has many varied definitions. As is the case with almost every word in the language.
If it's alright with you, I will use another, less bigotted, less embittered version.

Don't you see at all, the nonsence in your argument? The 'Chavs' are the effect not the cause, of social and urban decline.
They are part of an expanding underclass, who like all dispossessed peoples anywhere in the world, have only each other with whom to socialise. They make easy targets for cowards and bigots, easy scapegoats; something in the same vein as Gypsies, Afro caribbeans, Asians and, the Jews in a politically unstable 1930-40s Germany.

The sentiment and danger in your attitudes is precisely the same.
And when I think of the suffering that my family and many millions of other fine families endured to rid the world of fascism, I could almost puke.

Tell me, what do you think of asylum seekers, and what exactly would you do with them? Do you see them as scrounging free-loaders, or desperate innocent people fleeing for thier and their childrens' lives? The question is rhetorical, of course. I have a fairly good idea of your answer.

The answer you give regarding 'rascism' sounds like part of a script from 'Little Britain', except that it is less funny and far less coherent.

You misquoted me on a number of points and twisted the meaning of many other points in order to suit your own arguments. E.G. I fail to see how defining chavs as, young trendy people, can be construed as defending them.

And how dare you accuse me of not reading the threads from the beginning? THAT APPEARS TO BE A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF FAULT PROJECTION. fOR IT IS YOU WHO IS GUILTY OF MISREADING THREADS .


The truth, you couldn't handle the truth.

I did not once misquote you, please feel free to identify where it happened if you think it did.

I suspect that your assumptions about my views on asylum seekers are far from the truth. Find some of the threads where
they've been discussed and check.

I guess you've not watched much of "little britain" then.

That wasn't my preferred version, it was taken from a web wikipaedia of word definitions. There is no positive version of the word, it comes from Council House Assumed Violent, a police acronym apparently. If you persist in misunderstanding it, then there's little wonder that you disagree with people who think that chavs are a problem.
Maybe it would help if instead of saying chav, they said agressive, foul mouthed, potentially violent youths. Or maybe you'd be telling me that i'm a bigot for saying that people behaving like that are a problem!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cyclone
[B]I did not once misquote you, please feel free to identify where it happened if you think it did.

=============================================

I'm not going to trawl through this irritating and insane non-argument to find all of the occasions where you have misquoted me or grossly distorted my points; but ;--

see page 5 you say;- OTHER PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE BEHAVIOR OF CERTAIN GROUPS, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY START DRINKING, then you go on to say, " you seem to find this acceptable." Can you show me where I have indicated that I find this acceptable?
And please- answer the question;

You tell me that I "dont know the meaning of the word 'Chav'.
Just because I referred loosely to them as 'young trendys'.
Yet in your last post you freely admit that there are many versions of the word.

Bye the way, 'CHeltenham AVerage' is another suggested root of the word, and there are several more. Could it be that 'Council House Assumed Violent' is merely your, 'preferred version?'

Now you have the audacity to accuse me of 'persisting to misunderstand the word.'

I would refer the dis-honourable member to the question I answered earlier;---

ie;-- Many people from many differing groups, backgrounds types and creeds, cause trouble and make Hillsboro' Corner a less pleasant place to be.

We are all potentially violent and I know many good and law abiding people who were born and/or live, in council houses. And finally, I dont disagree with people, I disagree with you.

Try looking a little closer at the trouble makers around Hilsboro'
you might surprise yourself.


The truth? You couldn't handle the truth.

Originally posted by Cyclone

So what is your opinion about the chavs in the area. Other people have suggested that they are a problem, do you agree or not.


did you mean that? That's what's commonly called a question.

or was it this

ME: you were making a point that chavs were not a problem. At least that's what I understood by this comment;


YOU: As for chavs , what are they but young trendy people many of whom live in the area and have every right to be there.

I clearly stated that that was my understanding of what you'd said, inviting you to correct it if you will.

Your continued defence of these people however still seems to indicate that you either don't think they are chavs and they're being mislabled, or that you don't think chavs are a problem in this place.

I notice that you're sticking to your technique of being insulting to me, is that in the hope that you'll be perceived to have won the disagreement?

Many people from many differing groups, backgrounds types and creeds, cause trouble and make Hillsboro' Corner a less pleasant place to be
I agree with you, chavs can come from many different backgrounds, although they are predominantly white.

Tell you what, in the spirit of debate, lets start again.

Do you think Hillsborough corner has a problem?
I do, although I blame it mainly on traffic flow problems.

Do you think that aggresive drunken behaviour and fighting is acceptable on a friday and saturday night?
I don't, I think everyone should feel safe walking around the area and not be intimated, attacked or made to feel threatened.

Lets forget about chavs, i'm sure it's been done in another thread.

IN THE SPIRIT OF DEBATE? YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO DEBATE.

The misquote that I directed you to (as you know perfectly well) is, I repeat, on PAGE 5, and YOU say,

"OTHER PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE BEHAVIOR OF CERTAIN PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY START DRINKING"
You then go on to say that I find this acceptable.

I will ask you again to point out where I say that, I FIND THIS ACCEPTABLE.

'Debate' is the process of discussing, pondering, and considering a matter using logic and sound reasoning with which to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion.

You dont have the ability to apply logic. You are like a frightened child that tantrums when they dont get their own way. You are like a CHAV! (Romany root--'Chavy' = child.

You simply ignore points that blast yours out of the water,and then go on to open new and ever more nonsensicle arguments.

You say that, I "CONTINUE TO DEFEND", Chavs.
Show me one instance where I have defended them.

My sole purpose in this crazy round and around never ending argument is to highlight your need to twist my points into your own misguided opinions, in the hope that other subscribers will not notice.

Positively for the last time; My point is , simply ;-

Many different people, NOT JUST CHAVS, cause Hillsboro' Corner to be a less pleasant place to be.

This argument started with a snide, unnecessary, and insulting post from you directed personally at me.

I quote you;- "I've never heard of (Chavs) being called 'young and trendy', before."

Which, for my purpose, was a throw away expedient meant to say, look, young people have always hung around corners in varying states of dress, regardless of background, class, religion, colour etc etc.

Their highest purpose is to receive the approval of their peers. Misbehavior, is part of the childish transition to adulthood.
It is natural, unavoidable and some sociologists say, necessary.

But before you start to accuse me of being a 'do gooder'. I would point out that I am merely DESCRIBING observed human behavior.
Allthough, I EXPECT THAT YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THE SOCIAL SCIENTISTS'.

To sum up; Let's be clear who took this thread away from Hillsboro' Corner and onto chavs.. YOU.

Lets be clear who began personal attacks and insults.. YOU.

And lets be clear who caused this nonsence to descend into an interminable exercise in the avoidance of fact.. YOU.

JUST TO ANSWER YOUR LAST QUESTION.
Of course I dont think that drunken behavior and fighting are acceptable on Friday or Saturday.
Sunday,== maybe, (ESPECIALLY IF SHEFF WEDNESDAY LOST THE DAY BEFORE.)
And I wouldn't mind the odd mass battle on tues or thurs as long as there's not much on telly.

So if that's "unclear" as you repeatedly accuse me of being-- tough ****.
As for 'feeling threatened', I suspect that you would feel threatened at Sunday service. GET OUT INTO THE STREETS AND LOOK. Find out what the real problems are, dont just LOOK AT THE MOST OBVIOUS, and blame those most noticable. Those who are truly evil, rarely are suspected.

You really should get out more.

At least, if you wish to go on with this, remember these salient points;-
ONE;-
ENSURE THAT YOUR REPLY IS CONSTRUCTIVE AND ADDS TO THE DISCUSSION.
TWO;-
VERY SHORT AND POINTLESS POSTS MAY LEAD TO YOU LOSING ACCESS.

ie;- Your first comment on my post consisted of just one very impolite and unconstructive sentence---"I've never heard them called 'young and trendy' before."


The truth? You couldn't handle the truth.

you really are quite funny.

So, in conclusion to your “debate”, do you think that HC is good or bad? Or are you going to try and out smart each other for some time to come. Why not agree to disagree and put an end to your handbag swinging?

Come on girls give it a break.

You are both starting to sound like a pair of chavs.

Get back on topic for gods sake.

i think hills is full of chavs however it is a good place for first time buyers as its cheap.

i live at middlewood and the tram is the reason why we moved there, in terms of transport its the cars at hills corner that cause the problem - if there werent always queues it would be a lot more pleasant. in fact - if cars were banned from hills corner and only buses and trams allowed thru then it would be virtually pedestrianised! more pleasant for shopping.

i dont know how traffic would get down holme lane tho...

also the corner looks gypo but at leat the shops at hillsborough are useful to save u going into the c/c.

Like I've said before, I reckon Hillsborough as a whole will be looking a whole lot better soon. Whilst this "Nico" certainly seems to be dragging his feet over his developments there are others in the offing that should make the area around the corner look a whole lot better. Plus, with the college opening there is always the hope that businesses will invest in providing services for the influx of students. Richie (the Hillsborough Development Officer) has been busy promoting the area to both local and national business hoping to attract them to invest in Hillsborough and it should only take a few things to get the ball rolling. Hopefully!

Originally posted by empea
i think hills is full of chavs however it is a good place for first time buyers as its cheap.

i live at middlewood and the tram is the reason why we moved there, in terms of transport its the cars at hills corner that cause the problem - if there werent always queues it would be a lot more pleasant. in fact - if cars were banned from hills corner and only buses and trams allowed thru then it would be virtually pedestrianised! more pleasant for shopping.

i dont know how traffic would get down holme lane tho...

also the corner looks gypo but at leat the shops at hillsborough are useful to save u going into the c/c.

fixing the traffic flow would get rid of the queues, and make far more sense than forcing the traffic onto other less suitable roads.

I've noticed today that Harios have now aquired the premises that was Headlines Hairdressers on the corner of Taplin Road (opposite the shopping centre). He now has property on Hillsborough Corner, Taplin Road, Langsett Road and at Middlewood!!

I really hope the one at the end of Taplin won't go the same way as Hills Corner and Langsett Road and just stand empty and half demolished for the next 2 years.

Being negative is the last thing that Hils' needs and it's great to see that some people agree that Hils' is likely to rise from the ashes.
The trouble-causers will succeed if people stop useing the corner.

The Corner took a terrible hammering from the super.t, but let the super t give her something back now. Which, if we are prepared to make use of the centre by shopping there, will happen.
For this way, increased income will encourage iinvestment, this encourages outsid shoppers to come which increases income. The cycle, once started, SNOWBALLS.

Come on you blues!

So should I go for a drink there tonight or not? (No, I won't go in the Ball!)

Yes hillsborough corner is a mess but what are we going to do about it? pattricia

Deleted by me!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sccsux
What, all the bloody sandwich shops & cafes?





See my reply above;).





But, the ones that are now closed/relocated were "respected" and "household names" (Tandy, Suggs both spring to mind) that people actually [b]wanted to shop at, which forces people to start looking "further afield".





I don't refer to anybody as a "chav", I believe in calling a spade a spade and call then "Stupid Tw@s" - 'cause that's all they are!






Where have I said I dislike Hillsborough? - Just looked back, I did say it had become totally horrible;). But....

I lived there for about 8 years (before the StupidTram) and have nothing but good memories of my time there (with the exception of my last 7/8 months which was due to the ST building)!






'Cause I have a car, can drive and I really do not like Meadowhall:(.






So, you speak for the whole of Hillsborough then, do you?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The post that you are quoting from was aimed at 'cyclone'. the part that applies to you is the part above the dotted line. sorry, I couldn't be bothered to do it properly, my fault.

Sandwich shops and cafes etc are a good indicator of the commercial health of a place. Such shops don't do very well at all where there are no (passing) customers.
And anyway, how many are there, just about enough obviously.

And the,'hop a tram', bit though it also was for cyclone, was for anyone who prefers the clinically sterile environment of 'Malls', (Another of America's wonderful gifts to mankind), (not).

Shame that neither of you saw the irony intended by the reference to useing the tram to get there, still---.

Finally, no I don't speak for everyone but I speak for far more people than you may think.
I'm speaking for those for instance who have lived here for generations, not just a few years or since the Kelvin was demolished.

Hillsboro' is a fine area, its turbulent history and hardy inhabitants testify to many occasions when circumstances, natural and man made, conspired to wipe her from the face of the earth. I'm confident that Hils' corner will come good ( with a little help from her friends.)

The 'Corner' is the heart of Hillsborough and I doubt that a few whingeing armchair critics will make her skip a single beat.



"The tooth?" " You couldn't handle the tooth!"




]

Deleted by me!

Why is it that some people would rather deceive themselves to keep their mistaken ideas alive than admit that they're partly or even completely wrong?

'The Emperors New Clothes', springs to mind.
Just LOOK at Hillsboro centre. It absolutely buzzes every day of the week.(AND MOST NIGHTS)
And if they can't find facts to substantiate their arguments they invent some, or express an opinion and call it 'a fact'.

So I will repeat, with this modification to my previous statement
it is my and many thousands of people's opinion', that,


'Hillsboro IS a fine area'.

And, unfortunately, it's impossible to to have a thriving virile shopping centre without some traffic congestion. 'Cake and eat it ', springs to mind. Why not drive all the way to Meadowhell, they never experience traffic problems,-- really!?

There is a meeting at the 'Purveyors of doom and gloom
club' tomorrow night, but don't bother going, --- it might be cancelled!

However badly some people want to see Hillsboro go under, I can tell them that it's just not going to happen.
Who are these cynics?------- Latent Unitedites I bet.

Get over the S' Tram and the disruption it caused, --- pleeeese.

It all was such a long time ago. Time to move on, eh!

Come on yoo bloos..

Does anyone else think Hillsborough Corner or Chav Central as my mates call it looks a right mess?

The building that curves around the corner that looks like all the frontage has been blown off is just awful!

It's been like this for well over a year now, the whole of Hillsborough corner is just so rundown and depressing to look at.

When is the council going to get their acts together and do something about it :confused:

i mam wanting to arrange a meeting about the state of hillsbrough (see thread about wanting to have meeting about state of hillsbrough) if any one is interested please meke it known by commenting on the thream mentioned thank you :)