What do you think about Gay people [Archive]

LoopyLou

10-05-2005, 05:48

I think the age thing you refer to is just as discriminatory as people who say they hate gays....

Some old people may feel unconfortable around gay people because 'in their day' 'this sort of thing' happened behind closed doors and not out in the open. But these same old people have lived long and interesting lives and probably have more experience of societies richness than some youngsters and maybe more open thinking too.

So old or young, I think your views about gay people are based on your experience of gay people......... the same is true of any body else who is different or similar to you.

For me, I did not knowingly meet a gay person until I started work in 1991 and at first didn't know how to act around him and I was really worried that I might unwittingly offend him. He was a lovely chap who it was impossible to offend and I had some great chats with him on this subject - usually at 3am in the morning waiting for taxis in town...both pi**ed as newts!

Using this experience, i acted in the same way with the next gay person I met and instantly offended them by describing them as 'queer', a word my friend had used to describe himself all the time.

Learned very quickly that gay people were just like everyone else - get to know them before you judge them and they are as individual as everyone else - one size does not fit all!!!!

Loopy, (age 32)

p.s. why have other people also added their 'class' to their descriptions when only asked for age.........mmm... very interesting - see thread "do we live in a classless society!'

peterdo

10-05-2005, 06:04

People's sexuality is irrelevent.It's what they are like as a person that matters.

GazB

10-05-2005, 06:12

None of my friends are gay and neither am I. Completely disagree with gay marriage, but what you do in your private time is your own choice. Obviously it boils down to me plainly not understanding how a man can choose another man over a gorgeous female.. I love women! How can some guys not?

Things I don't want to see in public:

Camps, whatever they're doing.. I just can't get my head around why they're like that?
Crossdressers- Sick.
Gay's doing "gay" things..

That's my opinion, you asked for it.. I'd prefer not to be slated, but bring on the constructive banter.

Avalon

10-05-2005, 07:06

Originally posted by GazB
None of my friends are gay and neither am I. Completely disagree with gay marriage, but what you do in your private time is your own choice. Obviously it boils down to me plainly not understanding how a man can choose another man over a gorgeous female.. I love women! How can some guys not?

Things I don't want to see in public:

Camps, whatever they're doing.. I just can't get my head around why they're like that?
Crossdressers- Sick.
Gay's doing "gay" things..

That's my opinion, you asked for it.. I'd prefer not to be slated, but bring on the constructive banter.

But because you do not understand how a man can go with another man (or even a woman with another woman), does this mean that you hate gay people? My parents are trying to convince me that people whould go to the extreeme of smashing peoples windows and slashing tyres etc just becuase someone is gay?

Greenback

10-05-2005, 07:17

Originally posted by Avalon
My parents are trying to convince me that people whould go to the extreeme of smashing peoples windows and slashing tyres etc just becuase someone is gay?

Why on earth would any sane person do things like that?

I'm starting to think this thread is a wind-up. :loopy:

Avalon

10-05-2005, 07:20

Originally posted by Greenback
Why on earth would any sane person do things like that?

I'm starting to think this thread is a wind-up. :loopy:

It is no wind up. My parents are that insane.

10-05-2005, 07:40

Avalon, I think that the voting figures tell you all that you need to know.

Taking into account the wide age range of the users of this forum as well as the diverse political opinions, I think it's safe to say that your parents are not representative at all.

GazB

10-05-2005, 07:43

Originally posted by Avalon
Does this mean that you hate gay people? My parents are trying to convince me that people whould go to the extreeme of smashing peoples windows and slashing tyres etc just becuase someone is gay?

No. Like I said, what you do in your private time behind closed doors is your own business (as long as it's legal, of course). There's much worse things you could be doing.

Avalon

10-05-2005, 07:43

venger

10-05-2005, 07:49

What do you think about Gay people ?

I just don't like people :D

21steve

10-05-2005, 08:00

Im with GazB.

i dont hate them, but i will never understand how (insert attractive female here) can not appeal to a man.

if you can't understand something its hard to be able to make judgement.

NatalieSheff

10-05-2005, 08:32

maybe im biting here, but i think this thread is stupid, what would you say to a "what do you think of black/jewish/disabled people?"pole?
all answers seem quite nice and lighthearted but still.....reallly....what kind of question is it?????

Avalon

10-05-2005, 08:34

Originally posted by NatalieSheff
maybe im biting here, but i think this thread is stupid, what would you say to a "what do you think of black/jewish/disabled people?"pole?
all answers seem quite nice and lighthearted but still.....reallly....what kind of question is it?????

As previously said i am trying to gauge what the "real world" things about gay people. I would not object to a black.jewish/disabled people poll if it was created for the right reasons.

NatalieSheff

10-05-2005, 08:36

it just felt a bit finger pointy

foo_fighter

10-05-2005, 08:55

Originally posted by Mo
Avalon, I think that the voting figures tell you all that you need to know.

Taking into account the wide age range of the users of this forum as well as the diverse political opinions , I think it's safe to say that your parents are not representative at all.
Interesting you should say that, if you remember Cyclone started a few threads (polls) to gauge that very fact...

...which were removed with the promise of an in-depth survey, which has never materialised...

...but (if I remember correctly) the actual spread of age/sex/race/politics/etc was less diverse than we all might have thought.

Oh, and just for the record, I really couldn't care less about someones sexual orientation.

redrobbo

10-05-2005, 09:03

Originally posted by Avalon
But because you do not understand how a man can go with another man (or even a woman with another woman), does this mean that you hate gay people? My parents are trying to convince me that people would go to the extreme of smashing peoples windows and slashing tyres etc just becuase someone is gay?

OriginallY posted by Greenback
Why on earth would any sane person do things like that?

Sadly, whilst sane people don't do things like that, some do. I know of two men who share a house. They may be gay, they may not - it is none of my business to ask. They have been subject to verbal abuse by youths in the neighbourhood; have had objects thrown at their door, windows and car; and more than once they have had loud banging on the door late at night - only to find offensive graffiti freshly daubed on the door. All this has been happening over the past six months. The police are now involved.

This homophobic abuse and hatred is on a par with racism. Sadly, despite our more tolerant society, discrimination against gay people can still be found.

I have not voted in this poll, and do not intend to do so. It is fundamentally flawed. A simple discussion on homosexuality from an age-related perspective would have been preferable.

Avalon

10-05-2005, 09:11

Originally posted by redrobbo
Sadly, whilst sane people don't do things like that, some do. I know of two men who share a house. They may be gay, they may not - it is none of my business to ask. They have been subject to verbal abuse by youths in the neighbourhood; have had objects thrown at their door, windows and car; and more than once they have had loud banging on the door late at night - only to find offensive graffiti freshly daubed on the door. All this has been happening over the past six months. The police are now involved.

This homophobic abuse and hatred is on a par with racism. Sadly, despite our more tolerant society, discrimination against gay people can still be found.

I have not voted in this poll, and do not intend to do so. It is fundamentally flawed. A simple discussion on homosexuality from an age-related perspective would have been preferable.

Would you care to start one?

nick2

10-05-2005, 09:12

Originally posted by redrobbo
Sadly, despite our more tolerant society, discrimination against gay people can still be found.

And is still considered by many (who would be horrified by a racist comment) to be quite acceptable.

timo

10-05-2005, 09:22

I do not regard homosexuality as a social evil. Some of my fellow Tories do, I admit, but I never have. For one thing, there is some convincing evidence from the work of Geneticist, Dean Hamer that homosexuality [in some males] is innate and inherited, rather than socially-constructed and adopted as a chosen 'lifestyle'. I have not the time to go into the subject in depth, but essentially Hamer found, in certain gay men, genes which act together to 'produce' homosexual inclination, on the candidate region xq28 of some mens' Y chromosomes. Hamer also argues that men are more likely to be gay if they have an elder brother who is also gay.

These findings of a few years ago can be interpreted in various ways. For example, they provide possible support for the 'I was born that way' argument. Conversely, they also may inadvertently provide 'genetic ammunition' for those who would like to isolate and eradicate homosexuality.

I sometimes think that homosexuality is of little relevance, and that it is akin to preferring Cheddar to Cheshire cheese. Then I realise that, as a heterosexual man I am able to openly express love and affection for my wife in public places. I can do so without fear of assault and worse. However, gay people of both sexes still run the risk of ending up on the slab, to be brutally frank, should they choose to do the same in certain environments. As my pal, Red Robbo says, there is still plenty of hostility out there towards gays. What a shame that is.

redrobbo

10-05-2005, 09:57

Originally posted by Avalon
Would you care to start one?

Not really. I've never started a thread myself. Just enjoy reading what interests other forummers, and adding my tuppence worth now and then.

AJ sheffield

10-05-2005, 10:31

Why when asked of there opinion about homosexuality do people try their hardest to drop the old "oh and I like black and asian people too" into the answer. Do they feel compelled to lump all minority groups together to over emphasise their caring nature.
Can someone please tell me what drives them to include ethnic groups in their reply. Do you feel guilty ? Are you showing off ?
Avalon asked a question thats all, give him a simple answer. His original question could have included the age thing too, but someone even said that was discriminatory. Are there any questions about society left that can safely be aired without feeling the wrath of the passive extremists.
Are people so under pressure to appear totally innoffensive that they find discrimination in even the simplest of things.
As to your question Avalon, I am 37 and my opinion is homosexuality is fine by me. If your not harming the people around you and your partner/partners are consenting then its all good.

NatalieSheff

10-05-2005, 10:39

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
Why when asked of there opinion about homosexuality do people try their hardest to drop the old "oh and I like black and asian people too" into the answer. Do they feel compelled to lump all minority groups together to over emphasise their caring nature.
Can someone please tell me what drives them to include ethnic groups in their reply. Do you feel guilty ? Are you showing off ?

personally think i was stating the obvious. i thought it necessary to state what a lot of people were prob thinking about the poll. But if ur gonna get picky - what do you think of short people? what do you think of ginger people? what do you think....do you see where am going? It felt like the poll was asking for a big reaction, but i dont see why it should be an issue.
in answer to ur "d o they feel compelled..." question, i think everyone has some sort of minority thing about them, dont they?

timo

10-05-2005, 10:55

Hi Natalie. Nice to see you on the forum again. Is it my mistake, or have you been away for a while?

missrabbit

10-05-2005, 11:00

Originally posted by Avalon
But because you do not understand how a man can go with another man (or even a woman with another woman), does this mean that you hate gay people? My parents are trying to convince me that people whould go to the extreeme of smashing peoples windows and slashing tyres etc just becuase someone is gay?

Where I used to live there was a rumor around the estate that i was a lesbien. This wasn't true and i dont know how it got started. I used to just ignore comments from kids on the estate cos i knew it wasn't true and it wasn't anybody's business eitherway! It got to a stage where i couldn't ignore it. I was stopped by gangs on bikes on my way home, suffered quite a few harsh beatings, had my widows smashed and my whole family were shouted at and stopped and in some cases beaten up. It was so horrible and over something so silly. It was even reported to the police. These were kids, thier parents, elderly people, people who i didn't know and didn't know me. In the end my family moved and if i ever go back to that estate i still have things shouted at me and this was 9 years ago.

NatalieSheff

10-05-2005, 11:03

was i missed? arr bless xx
i think you were right about the nice and nasty bit. shouldnt be about sexuality, just what people are really like. cos unless ur bonkin, does it matter what happens in their bedroom?

Gordie OS1

10-05-2005, 11:19

on a more serious note
how do you all feel about people with ingrowing toenails?
my mates dads sister told me she was trampled to death by rampaging elephants on her local estate just for wearing sandles when she had an ingrowing toenail.

personaly i dont have a problem with these people, live and let live etc

NatalieSheff

10-05-2005, 11:21

Originally posted by Gordie OS1

personaly i dont have a problem with these people, live and let live etc
if i was being picky id pick up on the "...these people" bit, but i wont;)

Avalon

10-05-2005, 11:23

Guys and Gals...

I appreciate the humor, but the thread was started as a serious discussion. If you do not wish to contribute to that discussion then thats fine, but please do not take the p**s. Thanks. :|

slimsid2000

10-05-2005, 11:28

As I've said before I don't have anything against gay people but wouldn't want a gay man taking an interest in me. I suspect this is the view of most people.

Gordie OS1

10-05-2005, 11:28

i'm sorry but i fail to see how a thread entitled
"what do you think about gay people"
can be seen as anything else apart from a joke.

Gordie OS1

10-05-2005, 11:30

Originally posted by slimsid2000
As I've said before I don't have anything against gay people but wouldn't want a gay man taking an interest in me. I suspect this is the view of most people.

I'd take it as a compliment :hihi:

Avalon

10-05-2005, 11:30

Originally posted by Gordie OS1
i'm sorry but i fail to see how a thread entitled
"what do you think about gay people"
can be seen as anything else apart from a joke.

Why?

NatalieSheff

10-05-2005, 11:31

chill out little fish! i do think its strange which words come out of our mouths though. I can be just as bad, i used the word "normal" the other day instead of "average". shame on me really.
but coming back to the main part of the thread - ive never seen it as issue. as long as someone is nice i like em.

nick2

10-05-2005, 11:41

Originally posted by Gordie OS1
I'd take it as a compliment :hihi:

Indeed, gay men tend to be attracted to the same things as straight women, so if gay men find you atractive you shouldn't have too much trouble with the ladies either.

Gordie OS1

10-05-2005, 11:44

its funny because it shows the narrow minded homophobic tendancies of the person asking the question

Avalon

10-05-2005, 11:46

Originally posted by Gordie OS1
its funny because it shows the narrow minded homophobic tendancies of the person asking the question

EDIT: Removed for discreetness

Gordie OS1

10-05-2005, 11:50

oh so it was a rhetorical question to see if people liked you or not

Avalon

10-05-2005, 11:52

Originally posted by Gordie OS1
oh so it was a rhetorical question to see if people liked you or not

No. It was a question to see if my parents actually live in the real world or not.

Gordie OS1

10-05-2005, 18:03

:D nobodys parents (over a certain age) live in the real world
mine certainly don't

Josie1996

10-05-2005, 18:09

Originally posted by Gordie OS1
:D nobodys parents (over a certain age) live in the real world
mine certainly don't

totally agree, my mum thinks its the latest craze!!

at least you can have a laugh with gay people, some straight people are some of the most miserable so and so's...one of my friends has the most wicked sense of humour

evissa

10-05-2005, 21:18

does it matter what someone's sexual preferences are?

does it matter what someone's food preferences are?

does it matter what their clothes preferences are?

I would say it doesn't- we're all different from one another - far more so than is apparent to the naked eye.

And sex - just ask yourself how long do you spend having sex in a typical week? not very long I bet - there's 168 hours in a week (I think) so a measly few hours on how people have sex makes very little difference what makes a person tick.

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 04:54

Firstly I dont care too much about homosexuals or their lifestyles just so long as they keep to themselves and dont push their ways on others.

The one thing that does concern me is that the whole point of procreation is through the sexual union of opposite sexes.

Morally and in religious teachings the act of buggery is wrong and is still unlawfull in many places.

I once stated in a thread in here that if all the gay people were on their own island, their would be no increase in population and they would eventually die out.

(no disrespect intended )

(age 45, Grandfather from a working class background)

mojoworking

11-05-2005, 05:06

Originally posted by evissa
does it matter what someone's sexual preferences are?

That depends. As the ongoing Michael Jackson circus proves, it can matter a great deal.

Gordie OS1

11-05-2005, 07:17

Originally posted by Delboy3

I once stated in a thread in here that if all the gay people were on their own island, their would be no increase in population and they would eventually die out.

(no disrespect intended )

(age 45, Grandfather from a working class background)
i think you will find there is a major flaw in your theory.

now prepare onesself for a shock here
gay children can come from straight parents :o
imagine that

so you would have to ship them to your little island every week.

and the world would of been a lot worse off without:-

Sappho (600 B.C.) Greek Poetess
Socrates (470-399 B.C.) Greek Teacher and Philosopher
Plato (427-347 B.C.) Greek Teacher and Philosopher
Alexander The Great (356-323 B.C.) Macedonian King
Wu (140-87 B.C.) Chinese Emperor
Hadrian (76-138 A.D.) Roman Emperor
Richard the Lion Hearted (1157-1199) English King and Crusader
Edward II (1254-1327) English King
Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519) Italian Renaissance Artist, Teacher, Scientist and Inventor

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 07:18

Originally posted by Delboy3
...I once stated in a thread in here that if all the gay people were on their own island, their would be no increase in population and they would eventually die out...
...and presumably no gay people would be born anywhere off this island?...

...I think there may be a subtle, but rather large flaw in your argument.

:suspect:

(Not to mention the fact that the human race really doesn’t seem to have a problem with re-populating itself at the moment anyway) :heyhey:

Edit to add
Ooops, simultaneous post alert (see above post by Gordie OS1).

nick2

11-05-2005, 07:41

Originally posted by Delboy3
I once stated in a thread in here that if all the gay people were on their own island, their would be no increase in population and they would eventually die out.

I think you actually suggested that all gay people should be put on an island and left to die out. Your plan wouldn't work anyway, as long as there was a turkey baster on the island we could survive.

Sierra

11-05-2005, 07:53

Originally posted by missrabbit
Where I used to live there was a rumor around the estate that i was a lesbien. This wasn't true and i dont know how it got started. I used to just ignore comments from kids on the estate cos i knew it wasn't true and it wasn't anybody's business eitherway! It got to a stage where i couldn't ignore it. I was stopped by gangs on bikes on my way home, suffered quite a few harsh beatings, had my widows smashed and my whole family were shouted at and stopped and in some cases beaten up. It was so horrible and over something so silly. It was even reported to the police. These were kids, thier parents, elderly people, people who i didn't know and didn't know me. In the end my family moved and if i ever go back to that estate i still have things shouted at me and this was 9 years ago.

That's terrible!

I hope you are ok now, and that these people don't bother you anymore. How dare they!

Here in California, the population is very diverse, and there are alot of gay people. They're just like anyone else. Some are nice, some not so nice etc. My teenage daughter has gay friends, and I have to say, while life here can be morally very casual, I think it's wonderful that the gay kids can be open about their sexuality at school. They are accepted, and no one gives them a hard time.

Prom (huge, expensive dance!) was last weekend, and the son of our neighbor was able to attend with his boyfriend.

My cousin is a lesbian, and her parents also didn't/don't approve. My uncle, God bless him, until his dying day, never accepted that a child of his was gay. Extreme case of denial.

My Aunt is still alive, and she's starting to come around. I think like any mother, she wants to see her child happy, so she's trying to be more accepting of my cousin and her partner. But it's killing her.

She's in her 70's, a devout Catholic, and the way she was raised, homosexuality was wrong. But she sees how devoted they are to each other...they've been together longer than many people have been married, they have a home and life together. They have no children of their own, but my cousin's partner is a teacher at a school for disadvantaged kids, and they have been foster parents to many children in need over the years.

They've also saved me more than once when my kids were small and the regular sitter flaked out on me.

Gay? Straight? Whatevah, people are people.

:) Sierra

halevan

11-05-2005, 09:09

- RedThey are disgusting

Strix

11-05-2005, 09:13

Originally posted by halevan
|They are disgusting

WRONG!!!

You can say 'I think they are disgusting', but you have no right to make such a declaration as a fact

You've just gone down in my estimations

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 09:14

Originally posted by halevan
|They are disgusting
Would you care to elaborate on that point?

:confused:

halevan

11-05-2005, 09:18

You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine !!! - red

nick2

11-05-2005, 09:20

Originally posted by halevan
They are disgusting

There are people more disgusting though.

Nimrod

11-05-2005, 09:22

halevan, you disappoint me. Such views have no place on this forum. If you cant bring yourself to understand their position then at least try to be a little more tolerant. Rant over.

Gordie OS1

11-05-2005, 09:24

you say

Originally posted by halevan
- RedThey are disgusting

is it not odd then that you quote robert burns?

Draggletail

11-05-2005, 09:31

Originally posted by halevan
- RedThey are disgusting

OK if It's 'stand up and be counted time'......
Just for the record, I don't have a problem with gay people.
Never have, now that I come to think about it.

redrobbo

11-05-2005, 09:37

Originally posted by halevan
They are disgusting
[/B]

Originally posted by halevan
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine !!! - red

halevan - your prejudice and homophobia is beginning to show.

Suggest you reflect on these wise words -
"O' wad some power, the giftie gi us to see ourselves as ithers see us!"

Now.....where was it I last saw these words quoted?

Edit: Gordie OS1 beat me to it!

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 09:50

Originally posted by halevan
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine !!!
halevan, I've always defended every-ones "right" (?) to say whatever they want on this forum, and your comments are no exception, but (as I've already requested), could you please elaborate on your thoughts, and the logic behind them, rather than just using inflammatory one line postings.

Ta,

:)

Deavon

11-05-2005, 10:11

Originally posted by nick2
I think you actually suggested that all gay people should be put on an island and left to die out. Your plan wouldn't work anyway, as long as there was a turkey baster on the island we could survive.

Yeah, but most of the kids would be straight.

Over time the island would become less fashionable, and then people would be leaving it in droves complaining that it's just not the same as it used to be.

LordChaverly

11-05-2005, 10:43

I am not surprised that the poll results show an overwhelmingly positive view of gays. I suspect the results would be replicated in most Western liberal countries. The fact is however that a similar poll in most parts of the world would show very different results.

You may be aware that an English Bishop has recently had to cancel his trip to the Caribbean because of local opposition to his views on homosexuality. This issue is also one of the causes of the schism in the Anglican church worldwide - and also figured recently in discussions relating to the election of a new Pope. Moreover, in muslim countries I believe that homosexuality is not only regarded as sinful but also likely to be the subject of condign punishment.

We should not be so naive as to think that such views are confined to countries outside Europe. Anti-gay prejudices are common throughout Central and Eastern Europe. In one case I heard about, the parents of a gay woman in Poland told her thet they would rather she be dead than a lesbian. And apparently, there is so much anti-gay prejudice in (Greek) Cyprus that only one person there has had the courage to 'come out'.

The point I'm making is that although homosexuality is now largely accepted in most Western liberal socieities, the situation is stil very, very different in most parts of the world.

nick2

11-05-2005, 11:19

I think it's still illegal in the (unfortunately named) Isle Of Man

redrobbo

11-05-2005, 11:25

Originally posted by nick2
I think it's still illegal in the (unfortunately named) Isle Of Man

Not anymore. Same applies to the Channel Islands. One of the benefits of belonging to the European Community who pressured the UK government to bring these island states into line with the rest of the UK.

nick2

11-05-2005, 11:28

Originally posted by redrobbo
Not anymore. Same applies to the Channel Islands. One of the benefits of belonging to the European Community who pressured the UK government to bring these island states into line with the rest of the UK.

Cool. I always refused to go the the Isle Of Man for that reason, now I need another reason, cruelty to cats ?

NatalieSheff

11-05-2005, 11:48

Originally posted by evissa

does it matter what their clothes preferences are?

I would say it doesn't- we're all different from one another - far more so than is apparent to the naked eye.

.
heheh! we have had that conversation on here b4! YESYES YES!!!

halevan

11-05-2005, 11:51

Originally posted by foo_fighter
halevan, I've always defended every-ones "right" (?) to say whatever they want on this forum, and your comments are no exception, but (as I've already requested), could you please elaborate on your thoughts, and the logic behind them, rather than just using inflammatory one line postings.

Ta,

:)

[COLOR=red]Right then, I will try, Gay people have the right to live as human beings and I respect them as such, I do know a gay male person who was the husband of a lady I am aquainted with, my ladyfriend and I, did visit them before he left home, so, I met him and he was very friendly to us and a very nice, clean living man. It is not the person I am against, it is what they do that disgusts me, it is not my age either, as I have felt like this since I was a young boy, neither is it because I am taking the high moral ground, as I am not and have never been strictly moral or a religious nut. I hope I have conveyed a little of what I feel and I do not advocate putting gays in prison or hurting them in any way, it is just that what they do makes me squirm with embarrassment.
I rest my case.

Andy78

11-05-2005, 11:52

Originally posted by halevan
You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine !!! - red

An opinion would have started with 'I believe that...' or 'I think that...'

You made a statement in a factual way.

not to mention that you may find someone disgusting for whatever reason, but if you have not met them yet, how can you? You have not met every gay or straight person, therefore cannot know if you find them disgusting.

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 11:57

Originally posted by Andy78
An opinion would have started with 'I believe that...' or 'I think that...'

You made a statement in a factual way...
To be fair, it was blatantly obvious this was halevans "opinion", it's just being silly to construe such a posting as "fact"...

...or are you suggesting we should place every comment between either xxxx or xxxx ?

Daft uh?

:)

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 12:01

Originally posted by halevan
Right then, I will try, Gay people have the right to live as human beings and I respect them as such, I do know a gay male person who was the husband of a lady I am aquainted with, my ladyfriend and I did visit them before he left home, so, I met him and he was very friendly to us and a very nice, clean living man.
halevan, thanks for the reply, but...

...there's always a but...

...you haven't explained why you felt that
Originally posted by halevan
They are disgusting
just that you used to know a chap, and he was OK.

I'm genuinely interested in why you made the original statement.

:)

Strix

11-05-2005, 12:04

Originally posted by foo_fighter
To be fair, it was blatantly obvious this was halevans "opinion", it's just being silly to construe such a posting as "fact"...

...or are you suggesting we should place every comment between either xxxx or xxxx ?

Daft uh?

:)

The billboard style formatting it came in was rather unnecessary though :mad:

It was only ever going to cause offence.

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 12:11

Originally posted by Strix
The billboard style formatting it came in was rather unnecessary though :mad:

It was only ever going to cause offence.
Granted, and I've already commented that it was an "inflammatory one line posting"...

...but can't we get to the root of the matter rather than inventing criticisms of each other?

:)

Strix

11-05-2005, 12:14

Read between his lines.

It looks like he's not a nappy-changing style dad ;)

*phobia*

Gordie OS1

11-05-2005, 12:16

and yet you have a quote from a famous scottish gay as your signature :hihi:

this was for the benefit of haleven

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 12:21

Just noticed, halevan edited the original post to add
Originally posted by halevan
...It is not the person I am against, it is what they do that disgusts me, it is not my age either, as I have felt like this since I was a young boy, neither is it because I am taking the high moral ground, as I am not and have never been strictly moral or a religious nut. I hope I have conveyed a little of what I feel and I do not advocate putting gays in prison or hurting them in any way, it is just that what they do makes me squirm with embarrassment.
I rest my case.
this does explain a certain amount.

As I have already said though, I don't agree with that point of view, but thanks for the clarification halevan.

:)

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 16:32

I do see that in this thread and others, that people are trying to normalise homosexuality and make out that there is not a problem and that their behaviour is normal.

I do agree that hormones play a lot in the decision as to whether a person of one sex can feel like being in the same genetic gender as that of the other sex.

This is a problem that has to be sorted by the powers that be in the medical proffession.

BUT! is this realy the case for the numbers of people that are turning to the homosexual lifestyle?

I personally see nothing normal about a bloke wanting to be humped by another bloke up the rear end.

It is definatley not normal so what is the explanation for these types being part of our society?

I am not a bigot but I have seen too many children molested by paedophiles that are classed as gay.

My question is not what do we think of gays but as to why we have this affliction in our society and what could be done to cure it.

Greenback

11-05-2005, 16:39

I thought the gay=paedophile argument had died out with the dinosaurs, being that it's stupid and offensive.

How very, very sad that people still believe this nonsense.

Mind, you do have to wonder about people who think up elaborate strategies for ridding these isles of this "affliction"...

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 16:43

Originally posted by Greenback
I thought the gay=paedophile argument had died out with the dinosaurs, being that it's stupid and offensive.

How very, very sad that people still believe this nonsense.

Mind, you do have to wonder about people who think up elaborate strategies for ridding these isles of this "affliction"...
As stated........you do nothing to answer the questions put forth....
here's another......if a person feels that they are feminine.....why don't they get a sex change??

There is something drastically wrong with this picture and it isnt me that is sick!!!! it is all the **** pushers that are looking for sympathy!

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 17:05

Originally posted by Delboy3
...I am not a bigot but I have seen too many children molested by paedophiles that are classed as gay...
Didn't Gary Glitter get put in jail for looking at images of little girls...

...so why are you watching such acts taking place (with little boys no-less)...

...and have you been jailed for it yet?

Kristian

11-05-2005, 17:10

Originally posted by Delboy3
I do see that in this thread and others, that people are trying to normalise homosexuality and make out that there is not a problem and that their behaviour is normal.

I do agree that hormones play a lot in the decision as to whether a person of one sex can feel like being in the same genetic gender as that of the other sex.

This is a problem that has to be sorted by the powers that be in the medical proffession.

BUT! is this realy the case for the numbers of people that are turning to the homosexual lifestyle?

I personally see nothing normal about a bloke wanting to be humped by another bloke up the rear end.

It is definatley not normal so what is the explanation for these types being part of our society?

I am not a bigot but I have seen too many children molested by paedophiles that are classed as gay.

My question is not what do we think of gays but as to why we have this affliction in our society and what could be done to cure it.

Well, I've stayed away from posting on this thread until now. I'm getting really tired of these threads. There have been so many started since I became a forum regular in January, I feel there is not much more to be said, however Delboy3's post has changed my desire to stay away.

How dare you condemn anyone for the way they choose to conduct their private affairs? What on earth has it got to do with you?

Originally posted by Delboy3
As stated........you do nothing to answer the questions put forth....
here's another......if a person feels that they are feminine.....why don't they get a sex change??

There is something drastically wrong with this picture and it isnt me that is sick!!!! it is all the **** pushers that are looking for sympathy!

Your knowledge of things such as gender and sexuality are quite clearly severely lacking. I find your ignorance and intolerance astounding. If you're going to form an opinion, you really ought to get some kind of factual basis for it before posting. I'm honestly astounded at your bigotry and stupidity.

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 17:12

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Didn't Gary Glitter get put in jail for looking at images of little girls...

...so why are you watching such acts taking place (with little boys no-less)...

...and have you been jailed for it yet?
Ha Ha Ha!......sarcasm........

You only have to read the newspapers or see the news on TV to see how the numbers of acts have increased...

I take it that you are also one that thinks that it is normal behaviour to be a homosexual?????

Please take note I try not to use the word gay as it is such a happy word.......not queer at all.

poppins

11-05-2005, 17:14

Originally posted by Delboy3
Ha Ha Ha!......sarcasm........

You only have to read the newspapers or see the news on TV to see how the numbers of acts have increased...

I take it that you are also one that thinks that it is normal behaviour to be a homosexual?????

Please take note I try not to use the word gay as it is such a happy word.......not queer at all.

Ooooooo, someones going to get into trouble ! glad it's not me !

Greenback

11-05-2005, 17:14

I'll try to answer your points.

Originally posted by Delboy3
I do see that in this thread and others, that people are trying to normalise homosexuality and make out that there is not a problem and that their behaviour is normal.

I do agree that hormones play a lot in the decision as to whether a person of one sex can feel like being in the same genetic gender as that of the other sex.

This is a problem that has to be sorted by the powers that be in the medical proffession.

BUT! is this realy the case for the numbers of people that are turning to the homosexual lifestyle?

I can't answer this question because I don't understand it.

Originally posted by Delboy3
I personally see nothing normal about a bloke wanting to be humped by another bloke up the rear end.

Fair enough - that's a personal opinion based on personal life experience. It's not normal for me either, but neither is snorkelling, or abseiling, or parachuting. I'm not going to try and stop people doing these things though, as they aren't harmful.

Originally posted by Delboy3
It is definatley not normal so what is the explanation for these types being part of our society?

They exist. It's just your own opinion that it's not "normal", and in fact you're wrong. It happens and has been studied in animals - you may not like it, but it's certainly natural.

Originally posted by Delboy3
I am not a bigot but I have seen too many children molested by paedophiles that are classed as gay.

My question is not what do we think of gays but as to why we have this affliction in our society and what could be done to cure it.

It's human nature, and as such can't be "cured".

Lotti

11-05-2005, 17:14

What can possibly be wrong with two people loving each other? :confused:

I have to say I strongly believe it isn't an 'affliction' and doesn't need a cure, and how many people have been sexually assaulted heterosexually? There's nothing to say gay=paedophile, that's just sad. :loopy:

Yes, it's true, it may not seem like a natural thing because God made man and woman to fit together and create babies and two men together can't help the population increase, however, I see it as a natural contraceptive to stop the world from overpopulating! :thumbsup:

Gay people have always been here, always been around, just that it's made more public now, and as it's becoming more socially acceptable, it's becoming more obvious.

I have to say, when I walk through the town centre and see two men walking hand in hand, I really admire them! I love it! to know that despite all the prejudice, these people will be who they are and love who they love! Good on you! :clap:

Also, as a 17 year old girl and a virgin, the thought of laying there while a man sticks his penis in me doesn't appeal to me, and I can't ever imagine enjoying it, but many people do, and I'm sure that when I start having a sex life, I will enjoy it!
So how do you know, Halevan, that you definitely won't enjoy gay sex???!!!! It might not seem appealing now, but don't knock it til you've tried it! :hihi:

Yodameister

11-05-2005, 17:14

Originally posted by Delboy3
I take it that you are also one that thinks that it is normal behaviour to be a homosexual?????

Is there not a difference between "majority" and "normal"?

"Normal" is a word that can be used in two different ways.

You are using it in the sense of "what the majority do" when it suits you and then shifting it to the judgemental meaning when it suits you.

Hence, anyone who is not in the majority you are judging as being less worthy.

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 17:18

Originally posted by Kristian
Well, I've stayed away from posting on this thread until now. I'm getting really tired of these threads. There have been so many started since I became a forum regular in January, I feel there is not much more to be said, however Delboy3's post has changed my desire to stay away.

How dare you condemn anyone for the way they choose to conduct their private affairs? What on earth has it got to do with you?

Your knowledge of things such as gender and sexuality are quite clearly severely lacking. I find your ignorance and intolerance astounding. If you're going to form an opinion, you really ought to get some kind of factual basis for it before posting. I'm honestly astounded at your bigotry and stupidity.

Are you also stating that it is normal???

Am I a bigot for stating the truth?
If there is anything I have said in the last 3 posts that has no truth in it then please educate me a little!

JoeP

11-05-2005, 17:21

Mod. Note

Just a brief reminder to stay on topic and not to let the thread degenerate in to name calling. If it does, I'll remove the offending posts and also temporarily remove the offending posters.

Of course, if we're all civilised here I won't have to do that.

:)

Kristian

11-05-2005, 17:24

Originally posted by Delboy3
Are you also stating that it is normal???

Am I a bigot for stating the truth?
If there is anything I have said in the last 3 posts that has no truth in it then please educate me a little!

None of what you have said is true! You're either a really uneducated bigot, or you're trolling to get attention. Either way, you're just making yourself look stupid. I'd quit now if I were you.

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 17:27

Originally posted by Kristian
None of what you have said is true! You're either a really uneducated bigot, or you're trolling to get attention. Either way, you're just making yourself look stupid. I'd quit now if I were you.
please substantiate your claim......it is so easy to say this or that is not true but without substantiating it......your words are empty and have no meaning

Lotti

11-05-2005, 17:27

Delboy
What exactly is the truth that you have stated? I'm confused :confused: I haven't read anything in any of your threads that I feel is truthful so please, do help me to understand what on earth you're on about! It is your opinion (and in my opinion, not a favourable one) but it is not the truth!

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 17:28

Originally posted by JoePritchard

Mod. Note

Just a brief reminder to stay on topic and not to let the thread degenerate in to name calling. If it does, I'll remove the offending posts and also temporarily remove the offending posters.

Of course, if we're all civilised here I won't have to do that.

:)

My appologies Joe...I will not carry on.......cheers

JonJParr

11-05-2005, 17:28

Originally posted by Delboy3
Are you also stating that it is normal???

Am I a bigot for stating the truth?
If there is anything I have said in the last 3 posts that has no truth in it then please educate me a little!

Whilst I may not agree with practicing homosexuality (it goes against my religious beliefs) I do believe that people should have the freedom to be openly gay without fear of discrimination or reprisal. It's not a case of whether being gay is 'normal' or not. It's 'normal' in the sense that 1 in every 10 people are. How much more 'normal' can you get? Put into perspective, it's about the same number of the UK population that have broadband internet access within their homes.

Delboy3, you ask if you're a "bigot for stating the truth". The answer is NO. You're a bigot for believing that your way is the only way and for being ignorant. So YES - you are indeed a bigot.

venger

11-05-2005, 17:28

Back then Kristian ;)

Each to their own I guess Delboy3

venger

11-05-2005, 17:29

[i]
Delboy3, you ask if you're a "bigot for stating the truth". The answer is NO. You're a bigot for believing that your way is the only way and for being ignorant. So YES - you are indeed a bigot. [/B]

:hihi: pmsl :hihi:

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 17:30

Originally posted by Lotti
Delboy
What exactly is the truth that you have stated? I'm confused :confused: I haven't read anything in any of your threads that I feel is truthful so please, do help me to understand what on earth you're on about! It is your opinion (and in my opinion, not a favourable one) but it is not the truth! All I have done is ask a few questions......no one has answered.....number 1 was.....is it normal?

Back to topic now.....or joe will be kicking my rear out...

foo_fighter

11-05-2005, 17:31

Originally posted by Delboy3
I take it that you are also one that thinks that it is normal behaviour to be a homosexual?????
As it happens I know a good number of Gays, and Lesbians and Straight people...

...and yes, each choice / way of life is equally acceptable to me.

Kristian

11-05-2005, 17:32

This thread is not going anywhere, and I just don't have the time or patience. Sorry.

Lotti

11-05-2005, 17:35

But what is normal?

I'm not gay but I'm disabled,
I know people who are straight but of an ethnic minority
I know people who are white but gay
I know people who are gay but not disabled
I know people who are straight, not disabled, and are white,

Are you normal?

In my opinion there is no such thing as 'normal' and if you're normal - I'm glad I'm not!

No two people are the same, there is far too much depth to us, therefore, the word 'normal' has no place on this thread.

Delboy3

11-05-2005, 17:39

Originally posted by Lotti
But what is normal?

I'm not gay but I'm disabled,
I know people who are straight but of an ethnic minority
I know people who are white but gay
I know people who are gay but not disabled
I know people who are straight, not disabled, and are white,

Are you normal?

In my opinion there is no such thing as 'normal' and if you're normal - I'm glad I'm not!

No two people are the same, there is far too much depth to us, therefore, the word 'normal' has no place on this thread.
One question about normal......Is it normal for a guy to have sexual relations with another guy?

Does it not go against the rules of nature and procreation?

Nice thread....please do not take my comments to heart as I do try to get some hot debate going......my questions are reasonale and to the point......cheers

Yodameister

11-05-2005, 17:42

Originally posted by Delboy3
One question about normal......Is it normal for a guy to have sexual relations with another guy?

Does it not go against the rules of nature and procreation?

Nice thread....please do not take my comments to heart as I do try to get some hot debate going......my questions are reasonale and to the point......cheers

What answer is there to that?

It is normal for a lot of people to have sex with people of the same gender. Its not normal for me to do that.

Who is 'normal' doesn't really come into it.

I believe that homosexuality is normal to less people than heterosexuality is, but I wouldnt say that makes a homosexual abnormal.

Greenback

11-05-2005, 17:44

Originally posted by Delboy3
One question about normal......Is it normal for a guy to have sexual relations with another guy?

Does it not go against the rules of nature and procreation?

Nope, as I've already stated, homosexuality is perfectly natural and widespread in the animal world.

0.29 seconds of Googling found this:

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

rosie

11-05-2005, 17:46

I have read all the posts on here .

What ever the sex oif the person they sleep with is up to them and does not affect them as a person.

I accept everyone as who they they no matter if they sleep with the same sex people or not. To me everyone is normal for them.

Lotti

11-05-2005, 17:49

But that's just it, there is no normal - that's what I meant.
It may not seem normal to you or me, because we're straight, and I can't say I think it's normal but then gay people probably (and I say probably because I can't speak for them) couldn't say that heterosexual sex was normal.
However, I may not feel it's normal but I think it's natural.

But normal is what each person interprets it as, natural isn't.

For instance, for you to come in after college, sit down do some work, go and change a colostomy bag, spend an hour getting in and out the shower because of a disability and a colostomy, wouldn't be normal would it? But it's normal for me.

Do you see what I mean?

Yodameister

11-05-2005, 17:49

Everyone has ways in which they are in a minortiy of people.

Why is it that sexual preference generates such excitement. People debate about marmite, but you don't slate someone as being abnormal because they don't agree with the majority.

I feel that "abnormal" here is being used in an entirely pejorative way, and I feel that if you go about your life getting het up about people doing things in their own privacy that harm noone then you are going to lead a very sad life.

redrobbo

11-05-2005, 17:59

Originally posted by Delboy3
I do see that in this thread and others, that people are trying to normalise homosexuality and make out that there is not a problem and that their behaviour is normal.

I'm gay. I do not have a problem being gay. What's your problem?

Originally posted by Delboy3
I do agree that hormones play a lot in the decision as to whether a person of one sex can feel like being in the same genetic gender as that of the other sex.

Sorry, but this is gobbledygook to me. Anyone have a clue what he's going on about?

Originally posted by Delboy3
This is a problem that has to be sorted by the powers that be in the medical proffession.

I've still not got a problem being gay - but you clearly have. What "problem" could you possibly be referring to that needs sorting out by the medical profession? Also, please tell me, how does the medical profession sort out this problem you are perceiving?

Originally posted by Delboy3
BUT! is this realy the case for the numbers of people that are turning to the homosexual lifestyle?

Ah.....the old debate about nature or nurture; being born gay or choosing to be gay. Seems you have decided it is a matter of personal choice - so what's your beef then?

Originally posted by Delboy3
I personally see nothing normal about a bloke wanting to be humped by another bloke up the rear end.

It is definatley not normal so what is the explanation for these types being part of our society?

Buggery is legal. It is a sexual act that is also committed between heterosexuals. Could you explain why these buggering heterosexuals are part of our society? I'd be fascinated to receive your explanation.

Originally posted by Delboy3
I am not a bigot but I have seen too many children molested by paedophiles that are classed as gay.

Ah.....the old lie about gays = paedophiles. And you are "not a bigot" eh? Gosh, I am so relieved to know that - otherwise I might have got sacked when I used to work in a children's home.

Originally posted by Delboy3
My question is not what do we think of gays but as to why we have this affliction in our society and what could be done to cure it.

My family - including my son, my partner and his family, my neighbours, my colleagues and associates, and my constituents (I am a city councillor) don't have a problem with my sexuality.
I take exception to you describing me and other gay people as an affliction in society. I don't require any kind of cure. Your ignorance and homophobic intolerance is in stark contrast to most posters on this thread.

So my question is not what we think of gays, but what do we think of these outdated and intolerant attitudes in society as expressed by Delboy3 and halevan?

Yodameister

11-05-2005, 18:06

Originally posted by Delboy3
So you are a councillor....so what?? thats why this city is in a mess!
<edited for offense>

Soemone seriously addresses your points, and you come back with a wisecrack.

Just about says it all really.

Lotti

11-05-2005, 18:07

Ditto RedRobbo!

And Delboy3, this is not you just wanting a debate - you can't post personal jibes on this forum - buck up your act, or we'll butt out your arse!
This city is not in a mess - it's just as well there are only a few like you!

oh and, you may call gays 'sissies' but at least they have the courage to accept something different, you are too frightened by something that you're not used to.

redrobbo

11-05-2005, 18:18

How does calling me names further your argument Delboy3?

I have taken considerable trouble to address the issues you raised in your first post, and you can only respond with personal abuse.

In your own words, you are "not a bigot". Forummers will undoubtedly make their own judgement in the light of this abusive post.

Andy78

11-05-2005, 18:19

Originally posted by Delboy3
You can get my arse booted out of here permanently....would stop me from coming in reading all the crap that you lot put in here.

<Moderator Edit>.....

This really is quite ridiculous! As you can see by the above poll, your opinion is not normal. Shall we cure you for being different?

Unfortunately for you, the things that you are quite clearly afraid of are not going to go away. For the sake of yourself, I think you should accept that certain things are part of life, or hide in your house away from the abnormality outside.

As for your comments about combat situations; well that doesn't even deserve thinking about a response.

jackieb

11-05-2005, 18:21

Originally posted by redrobbo
Your ignorance and homophobic intolerance is in stark contrast to most posters on this thread.

I think that answers Avalon's question!

JoeP

11-05-2005, 19:05

OK. The warning was issued, people don't listen, I've banned one person. Other folks involved, just try and keep it cool in future.

Please keep this civilised.

Joe

timo

11-05-2005, 22:07

The subject of possible links between male homosexuality and paedophilia has reared its head on a couple of occasions on this thread. As far as I am able to ascertain, the only evidence for the link lies in literature produced by Valerie Riches of the conservative pressure group, Family and Youth concern.

Riches claims that the Campaign For Homosexual Equality shared a platform with the Paedophile Information Exchange [PIE] in a Sheffield conference on'alternative sexual lifestyles' in 1979. Her 'evidence' lies in a survey which was distributed to the audience of gay men, by PIE. Riches claims that a third of the respondents answered 'yes' to the question of whether or not they had a sexual interest in children. As a published academic in the field of social science/philosophy, I would like to say, in relation to the validity of the methodology; comment would be superfluous.

The author then goes on to describe how she provided a journalist with the supposed empirical evidence that 'proves' the link, and how they encountered a media conspiracy to bury the story.

Every few years, Riches relays the story in certain magazines and journals. It causes distress, and makes people sad. Try as I might, I cannot find a single academic of repute who would concur with Riches' analysis.

happychick

11-05-2005, 22:47

I am amazed by some of the things i have read on this thread.

I thought we had progressed in our understading of homosexuality, but obviously there are still the die hards who refuse to believe anything except their own closetted & unfounded beliefs.

Right, I am mid 40's, married , 3 kids. And i do NOT have a problem with homosexuality or gay people themselves. They are no different in any way, be that physically or mentally than the rest of us. the only difference is that they are attracted to & fall in love with people of the same sex as themselves. They love their partners just like the rest of us do.It's not just about sex.

To be honest, i get sick of hearing people "gay bashing". I'm sure they do it 'cause they've got nothing else to do with their time.

To all you gay people out there, stand tall & proud you will be around a lot longer than the bigots who condem you.

Shiesh

11-05-2005, 22:58

Maybe people with homophobic attitudes should be housed in a street with gay couples for a fortnight then housed on a street with anti-social families with a history of criminal damage, ASBOS, joyriding, loud music all hours, raised voices all hours, violence, intimidation etc etc

Then maybe they would realise people are not at all interested in sexual preferences these days just normal neighbourly interaction..!!

:)

redrobbo

11-05-2005, 23:04

Originally posted by happychick
I am amazed by some of the things i have read on this thread.

I thought we had progressed in our understading of homosexuality, but obviously there are still the die hards who refuse to believe anything except their own closetted & unfounded beliefs.

Right, I am mid 40's, married , 3 kids. And i do NOT have a problem with homosexuality or gay people themselves. They are no different in any way, be that physically or mentally than the rest of us. the only difference is that they are attracted to & fall in love with people of the same sex as themselves. They love their partners just like the rest of us do.It's not just about sex.

To be honest, i get sick of hearing people "gay bashing". I'm sure they do it 'cause they've got nothing else to do with their time.

To all you gay people out there, stand tall & proud you will be around a lot longer than the bigots who condem you.

Thank you for these wise words happychick, and to other forummers like Lotti and Andy78 who expressed similar support. Rest assured I am indeed standing tall and proud, along with my partner.

My thanks also to JoePritchard, a Mod, who removed the homophobic abuse and ignorant rants from Delboy3.

Shiesh

11-05-2005, 23:18

Whilst I can sympathise with your comments there Redrobbo I would also like to object to the removal of such remarks by Delboy3...maybe it would've been in the best interests of all concerned to just edit his entries in a way suitable for a family forum as I think people would then be able to look at this threads in a more realistic light...there is bound to be someone with an opposing comment to make but surely they should be entitled to their opinion even if the majority of us would disagree!!

I would like to add I am in NO WAY condoning homophobic behaviour but I DO NOT think every thread should be deleted to keep the majority happy!!

I have seen so many interesting threads deleted for being a bit controversial or posts removed for being just a little out of the ordinary....I am sorry folks but sometimes I think the removals/warnings go a little too far!

:rant:

Deavon

11-05-2005, 23:24

Oooooh!

I have missed all the excitement because I was at work!

tut.

nslack

11-05-2005, 23:28

I agree with Shiesh I got lost towards the end and would have benefitted from Delboy03's posts, they wouldn't have changed my view however as he is a Mindless Bigot!!

In regards to 'normal', I believe this is a redundant word in the english language!!!! bear with me, Normal cannot be used to describe a person, everybody is different and that is why we are such a diverse country (and forum :thumbsup: )

I could say I am a freak because I wear glasses, that is not normal!!!

Deavon

11-05-2005, 23:32

I don't mind people who wear glasses, as long as they don't try to shove it down my throat!

(Sorry. It's the silly hour!)

nslack

11-05-2005, 23:36

surely you'd choke?

My attempt at humor :hihi:

redrobbo

11-05-2005, 23:42

Originally posted by Shiesh
Whilst I can sympathise with your comments there Redrobbo I would also like to object to the removal of such remarks by Delboy3...maybe it would've been in the best interests of all concerned to just edit his entries in a way suitable for a family forum as I think people would then be able to look at this threads in a more realistic light...there is bound to be someone with an opposing comment to make but surely they should be entitled to their opinion even if the majority of us would disagree!!

I would like to add I am in NO WAY condoning homophobic behaviour but I DO NOT think every thread should be deleted to keep the majority happy!!

I have seen so many interesting threads deleted for being a bit controversial or posts removed for being just a little out of the ordinary....I am sorry folks but sometimes I think the removals/warnings go a little too far!

:rant:

Hi Shiesh -

I have no problems in reading and discussing opposing views. You will see from my post in reply to Delboy3 that I commented on his first post, challenged some of his views, and sought his response.

He replied with two posts which failed completely to address the issues he himself had raised, and simply resorted to homophobic abuse, personally aimed at me. I do not come on the forum to be subjected to such vile, bigotted, and downright offensive rantings relating to my sexuality.

You will see that Lotti was so offended that she complained to the Mods. I also complained to the Mods. As a consequence, his abusive remarks have been removed, and, I assume, it is Delboy3 who has been banned by the Mods.

I will always attempt to engage in dialogue and debate, even with those who hold opposing views to my own. I will not tolerate the offensive rantings of a bigot. I cannot comment on your other experiences of Mods pulling posts/threads, but thought you would appreciate an explanation of what happened on this thread.

Red

Deavon

11-05-2005, 23:51

Originally posted by Shiesh
Maybe people with homophobic attitudes should be housed in a street with gay couples for a fortnight then housed on a street with anti-social families with a history of criminal damage, ASBOS, joyriding, loud music all hours, raised voices all hours, violence, intimidation etc etc

Then maybe they would realise people are not at all interested in sexual preferences these days just normal neighbourly interaction..!!

:)

Are you sure you don't work for Channel4??

What a great idea for a 'reality TV series'! Could call it,

"Queer eye for the Super Nanny Wife Swapping Straight Kids From Hell Street"

nslack

11-05-2005, 23:52

good on ya redrobbo for standing up to bigots like him (I presume a him), no place in the world for people like that!

best wishes mate

Nick

Shiesh

11-05-2005, 23:54

No worries Red....I can understand the concerns and have actually been on the receiving end of a unwarranted insult myself but somehow wish the posts were left unedited if only to shame the author...if you get my drift.

The Mods have a job to do but I do not think threads/posts should be deleted in their entirity but if at all possible preserved for the purpose of the other forum users.

:)

happychick

12-05-2005, 00:19

Delboy3 contributed nothing constructive to the debate. When he realised he couldn't back up what he was saying with facts he resorted to personally insulting Redrobbo.

Like many people of low intelligence , he resorted to throwing insults. The only person he managed to make look stupid was himself with his idiotic rantings.

I think Redrobbo deserves a bit of respect ( just the same as we all do) , and this man had no right to come on here and throw insults at him.

I was glad the MODS pulled it , 'cause reading it was starting to wind me up as well grrrr!.

Deavon

12-05-2005, 00:39

Originally posted by happychick
I think Redrobbo deserves a bit of respect ( just the same as we all do)

I was glad the MODS pulled it , 'cause reading it was starting to wind me up as well grrrr!.

I missed all the name calling, abuse and banter! And it was all pulled before I got back from work.

(Avalon, you've created a monster! What have you done?)

-Respect Redrobbo
-Big hug to happychick (don't grrrrrr too much)
-Hello Shiesh! (thanks for sending me a PM and making me feel 'part of it')

Dxxxx

themonkey

12-05-2005, 06:58

Originally posted by Delboy3
One question about normal......Is it normal for a guy to have sexual relations with another guy?

Does it not go against the rules of nature and procreation?

Nice thread....please do not take my comments to heart as I do try to get some hot debate going......my questions are reasonale and to the point......cheers

RULES???? What f***** rules? WHo says we have to procreate? As for nature, I'm sure you could ask any gay person whether their attraction to members of the same sex felt natural and they'd be adamant that it does.

I get really mad about homophobia, it is spawned from ignorance, arrogance and the following of religious beliefs irrelevant to modern society. It should be a punishable offence. :rant:

Avalon

12-05-2005, 07:09

Calm down dear!

Guys (and Gals) this was meant to be an adult discussion, and i did not intend it to resport to name calling, backbiting and general abuse. Please stop it!

nick2

12-05-2005, 07:44

Originally posted by timo
Every few years, Riches relays the story in certain magazines and journals. It causes distress, and makes people sad. Try as I might, I cannot find a single academic of repute who would concur with Riches' analysis.

The thing is that people will belive one person if that person is saying what they want to hear, and ignore a thousand who can prove otherwise.

We do seem to have one of these threads every month and they realy don't go anywhere, the same people say the same things every time, all the same trolls pop out of the woodwork and everyone ends-up slagging everyone else off.

Personally, I've come to the conclussion that some people are just too stupid to bother with, they just limp along in their stupid little Sunday Sport world while the rest of us live in the 21st century, there is no point in trying to talk to them as they will be instantly re-programmed by the next episode of Eastenders or tomorows News Of The World. These are the kind of people who still call black people "niggers", but very quietly, behind their back or only when in the company of like "minded" people. They are the kind of people who talk loudly at the bar about what they would do if they met a "homo", but go bright red and appologise profusely when you go over and introduce yourself as one.

timo

12-05-2005, 08:27

That is an impressive, heart-felt posting, Nick. However, I'm not so sure that the thread is going nowhere. A consensus appears to have emerged here; most posters do not appear to see homosexuality as a 'social evil'. That is not such a bad result is it? Even heterosexual Tories like me are on your side! To coin a cliche, look on the bright side...

marcuss

12-05-2005, 10:38

imo ever gay person i know or who i have spoken to i dont like. this isn't because they are gay but its just their whole personality. one thing that does anoy me about gay people is when you meet them they tell you that they are gay. i feel like saying thats nice why would you tell me that? when i meet someone for the first time i dont brag about what my sex life is all about so why do they feel they should shout at everyone they meet or pass by? i hope and presume not all gay people are the same but from my point of view every one that i have met are all anoying rude and i dont care to speak to them unless i have to

foo_fighter

12-05-2005, 11:09

Originally posted by marcuss
imo ever gay person i know or who i have spoken to i dont like. this isn't because they are gay but its just their whole personality. one thing that does anoy me about gay people is when you meet them they tell you that they are gay. i feel like saying thats nice why would you tell me that? when i meet someone for the first time i dont brag about what my sex life is all about so why do they feel they should shout at everyone they meet or pass by? i hope and presume not all gay people are the same but from my point of view every one that i have met are all anoying rude and i dont care to speak to them unless i have to
marcuss, try writing it like this, it'll be much easier for everyone to understand,
Not originally posted by marcuss
IMO every gay person I know, or who I have spoken to I don’t like, this isn't because they are gay but it’s just their whole personality. One thing that does annoy me about gay people is when you meet them they tell you that they are gay, I feel like saying that’s nice, why would you tell me that? When I meet someone for the first time I don’t brag about what my sex life is all about, so why do they feel they should shout at everyone they meet or pass by? I hope, and presume not all gay people are the same, but from my point of view every one that I have met are all annoying, rude, and I don’t care to speak to them unless I have to.
Ta, :)

timo

12-05-2005, 11:44

Foo,
LOL! You should be applauded for taking the time to instruct Marcuss in the finer points of grammatical construction, syntax, concision and clarity of expression. He was obviously sitting at the back at school, making plasticine worms.

AJ sheffield

12-05-2005, 11:58

Wow I have been away for a few days and come back to see this thread has grown into a monster. God help anyone on this forum who has any issues with minority groups. It seems if you have, your best keeping your mouth closed.
Anyone with any sense can see how the clique have banded together on this issue, and the mods are obviously behind them.
Anyone reading this thread and others like it on this forum can see immediately how intolerance is at its most extreme in the people who think they are "all embracing" to minority groups. Its these very people who have yet again put their fingers in their ears and hummed all the way through the posts of others who have a different view to theirs.
Then as predictably as ever fallen back on that age old sheff forum luvvie tool... if at first you dont succeed, resort resort to grammar.

foo_fighter

12-05-2005, 12:04

Originally posted by timo
Foo,
LOL! You should be applauded for taking the time to instruct Marcuss in the finer points of grammatical construction, syntax, concision and clarity of expression. He was obviously sitting at the back at school, making plasticine worms.
Timo / AJ,

It was no trouble, and I really couldn't ignore it.

It's just that, IMO every illiterate person I know, or who I have spoken to I don’t like, this isn't because they are illiterate but it’s just their whole personality. One thing that does annoy me about illiterate people is when you meet them they tell you that they are illiterate, I feel like saying that’s nice, why would you tell me that? When I meet someone for the first time I don’t brag about what book I’m reading at the moment, so why do they feel they should shout at everyone they meet or pass by? I hope, and presume not all illiterate people are the same, but from my point of view every one that I have met are all annoying, rude, and I don’t care to speak to them unless I have to.

;)

Greenback

12-05-2005, 12:08

I'm not sure that's right, AJ.

Delboy put across the point that homosexuality wasn't "natural", I illustrated that in fact it's widespread in the natural world, and then he proceeded to start firing off the insults at all and sundry.

I fail to see how this means he is being persecuted.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but you should at least be able to follow it through in argument.

Strix

12-05-2005, 12:09

Originally posted by marcuss
one thing that does anoy me about gay people is when you meet them they tell you that they are gay.
Apart from the ones that don't - so you don't know they are, so you can't include them in your 'balanced view' ;)

I used to work in a large department store down south. There were blokes there that were, but you only got to find out when they brought their partner to the christmas ball :D

And the guy on our department that customers kept describing as 'a bit....' was just a 'nice bloke', married with kids. The 'department gay' was actually a broad yorkshireman, and never let anybody know.

marcuss

12-05-2005, 12:19

Originally posted by Strix
Apart from the ones that don't - so you don't know they are, so you can't include them in your 'balanced view' ;)

i knew someone was going to say this. the people that i do like and get on with i get to know. in doing this i get to know whether they are gay or not by talking about their girlfriends or relationship problems like you do with friends.

also, if the yorkshire man never let anyone know then how do you know if he was gay or not. surley bringing his boyfriend too the xmas party shows that he is gay.

marcuss

12-05-2005, 12:24

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Timo / AJ,

It was no trouble, and I really couldn't ignore it.

It's just that, IMO every illiterate person I know, or who I have spoken to I don’t like, this isn't because they are illiterate but it’s just their whole personality. One thing that does annoy me about illiterate people is when you meet them they tell you that they are illiterate, I feel like saying that’s nice, why would you tell me that? When I meet someone for the first time I don’t brag about what book I’m reading at the moment, so why do they feel they should shout at everyone they meet or pass by? I hope, and presume not all illiterate people are the same, but from my point of view every one that I have met are all annoying, rude, and I don’t care to speak to them unless I have to.

;)

how dare you say that i am illiterate. my caps lock and shift buttons decide to work when they want to. also you have no idea how old i am. this is a family forum after all. you shouldnt make assumptions about people or make them feel small. i also have dyslexia so feel free to mock my spelling if thats your kick.

timo

12-05-2005, 12:28

AJ,
I hope you realise that I am not part of a clique or a 'luvvie' [the idea of the latter occasions hilarity]. Personally, I don't see homosexuality as a social evil, despite holding notoriously 'right wing' opinions on many other subjects such as multiculturalism, immigration etc. I am not taking your comments personally, just making my own position a little clearer.

I think there is sufficient evidence from behavioural genetics to describe male homosexuality, at least, as inherited and innate. I understand the perspectives of people who have deeply-held religious convictions against the 'sinful' nature of homosexuality, and accept that some find the idea abhorrent. I would personally never attempt to drown out the views of anyone who dissented from my opinion. The jibes that Foo Fighter and I engaged in are good humour, not attempts to 'silence' that particular poster.

I would be interested to hear your views, as I have discussed things with you before on a pleasant basis. I can only speak for myself here, but as a heterosexual, married man, I certainly do not claim to know everything there is about gay people . I am open to anyone's views, and concede that one can learn a lot from other posters.

With respect and regards,
Timo

foo_fighter

12-05-2005, 12:31

Originally posted by marcuss
how dare you say that i am illiterate. my caps lock and shift buttons decide to work when they want to. also you have no idea how old i am. this is a family forum after all. you shouldnt make assumptions about people or make them feel small. i also have dyslexia so feel free to mock my spelling if thats your kick.
So, your caps lock, shift key, and spell checker are all broken...

...and your dyslexic...

...so no one should make any comment about you...

...but somehow, commenting on Gay people as you did is OK.

Hmmm. :suspect:

Strix

12-05-2005, 12:38

Originally posted by marcuss
one thing that does anoy me about gay people is when you meet them they tell you that they are gay

Originally posted by marcuss
, if the yorkshire man never let anyone know then how do you know if he was gay or not. surley bringing his boyfriend too the xmas party shows that he is gay.

Kindly be consistent.

Bringing a partner to a social function (as everybody else does) hardly qualifies as being 'the only gay in the village' image you are objecting to in your earlier post.

Avalon

12-05-2005, 12:40

Once agan guys and gals! I wanted an adult discussion on this issue NOT backbiting, sarcasm and general hostility! Please calm down!

Strix

12-05-2005, 12:40

marcuss

12-05-2005, 12:44

Originally posted by foo_fighter
So, your caps lock, shift key, and spell checker are all broken...

...and your dyslexic...

...so no one should make any comment about you...

...but somehow, commenting on Gay people as you did is OK.

Hmmm. :suspect:

yes my shift key and caps lock keys are broken due to my boss and a mug of coffee. dont know how to use spell checker on here and it isnt my spelling you are critisisng its the fact that it is difficult for you to read a post because there are no capital letters.

i gave my opinion on gay people because i thought that this is what this thread was about. is that wrong. i didnt say that all gay people were like this because i thankfully havnt met every gay person, just the ones that i have met.

cobaltblue

12-05-2005, 12:47

This post simply asked what peoples opinions are of gay people. Marcus expressed his opinion and made valid points based on his experiences yet because it doesn't go with the majority he is slated about his punctuation. I find that pathetic. I have seen on many occasions on this forum people making valid points (albeit opposite to the 'majority') only to be ridiculed because of spelling and grammer. I cannot stand to see people attemtping to make a fool of other forummers and calling them illiterate etc because they miss out a few ful stops or capital letters.

Even if people did struggle with language, so what!!! Does that mean they are not allowed to post here? They don't have an opinion or it doesn't count because a few full stops are missing?? That is just insanity and if you people cannot read a passage or post because of some simple spelling or punctuation mistakes then perhaps it's you that has reading difficulties.

Maybe Marcus has hit a few home truths with a few of the forum users here in the fact that they don't have nice personalities. Myself, like Marcus, would not dislike someone because of their sexual preference. My like or dislike would be based soley on their personality.

P.S. If it makes you fel god about yurself pleesze fel three to correct any grummartical errirs and punktushun.

marcuss

12-05-2005, 12:51

actually it marcuss with a double s, not marcus with one s, but whatever.

by the way for all the forumers with not sense of humor, that was a joke.

cobaltblue

12-05-2005, 12:53

Originally posted by marcuss
actually it marcuss with a double s, not marcus with one s, but whatever.

by the way for all the forumers with not sense of humor, that was a joke.

LMAO Marcuss, my apologies. Sometimes things/people make me mad. I get a tad heated when I am replying :D

timo

12-05-2005, 12:54

Was it? Let's get back to the thread...

cobaltblue

12-05-2005, 13:00

Originally posted by timo
Was it? Let's get back to the thread...

Yes exactly timo. Lets get back to thread and discuss the topic without other users feeling the need to reprimand people about spelling or punctuation. Lets leave that to the mods if it is at all an issue they feel has to be addressed.

JonJParr

12-05-2005, 13:02

Originally posted by cobaltblue
Yes exactly timo. Lets get back to thread and discuss the topic without other users feeling the need to reprimand people about spelling or punctuation. Lets leave that to the mods if it is at all an issue they feel has to be addressed.

You mean we might get banned if we put an apostrophe in the wrong place? ;)

But rather more seriously can't we all just be tolerant of one another and accept that everybody isn't going to be the same. Indeed there isn't a definition of 'normal' and far be it for anyone to try. Look for the personality in the person not the sexual orientation; after all, my friends like me not because I'm heterosexual but because of who I am.

Strix

12-05-2005, 13:22

Originally posted by JonJParr
my friends like me not because I'm heterosexual but because of who I am.

Can anybody else spot a joke in there somewhere? ;)

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 13:37

Originally posted by marcuss
i gave my opinion on gay people because i thought that this is what this thread was about. is that wrong. i didnt say that all gay people were like this because i thankfully havnt met every gay person, just the ones that i have met.

"thankfully havnt met every gay person"? "thankfully"!
Here we ago again......isn't your prejudice beginning to show marcuss?

You have probably met loads of gay people, but you just don't know who they are. Not all gay people make a point of proclaiming their sexuality, so, as Strix shrewdly observed - "you don't know [who] they are, so you can't include them in your 'balanced view' "

One day I may find that there is no longer a need to conduct a poll called "What do you think of gay people?".

One day I may find that my sexuality no longer needs to be endlessly dissected on a discussion page.

One day, I may find that I no longer have to suffer ignorance, abuse, vilification, prejudice or homophobia of any kind.

One day, I may find that I can openly demonstrate my affection for my partner, through simply holding hands in the park - and no-one bats an eye-lid, even though we are two men.

One day, I may bump into marcuss, though "thankfully" for him, he will be oblivious to the fact that I am gay. That won't of course stop him stereotyping gay people with his "balanced view". But one day, maybe one day, even folk like marcuss will overcome their narrow and blinkered thinking, and accept gays as ordinary people who simply want to get on with our lives, free of prejudice and hassle.

I have been impressed and encouraged by the overall quality of posts on this thread. It has made me realise how much more tolerant society has become, despite some notable exceptions. I had my suspicions about Avalon's motives in starting this thread, but am now reassured over his intentions.

JonJParr

12-05-2005, 13:38

Originally posted by Strix
Can anybody else spot a joke in there somewhere? ;)

Depends whether you think being heterosexual or homosexuality defines a certain part of your personality. I don't think it does - it's just your sexual preference - it's not who you are. But if I phrased it incorrectly I do apologise.

Strix

12-05-2005, 13:39

Maybe they like you more than you know JonJ ;)

JonJParr

12-05-2005, 13:40

Originally posted by Strix
Maybe they like you more than you know JonJ ;)

Cheeky! I'll have to get them drunk and see..... :)

Strix

12-05-2005, 13:49

Originally posted by JonJParr
Cheeky! I'll have to get them drunk and see..... :)
:shocked: Would you like a bigger shovel? ;)

JonJParr

12-05-2005, 13:54

Originally posted by Strix
:shocked: Would you like a bigger shovel? ;)

Eh??? I was merely being impish!

Strix

12-05-2005, 13:57

Oh, I was wondering how you were going to 'find out' :suspect: ;)

Pajon

12-05-2005, 13:58

Originally posted by Avalon
Something somebody siad to me the other day has prompted this poll. What do you REALLY think about Gay people?? And is it a generational thing about attitudes??

Feel free to discuss (sensibly) differing attitudes. This week i have heard two extreems. One person saying "I f***ing hate queers..." and someone else going "I dont care if someone is gay...they would be my friend regardless"...What do YOU think?? :
:confused: Do we think "Gay" people really care? Or could it be the pigeonhole syndrome some like??

Strix

12-05-2005, 14:03

Originally posted by Pajon
:
:confused: Do we think "Gay" people really care? Or could it be the pigeonhole syndrome some like??

Not only do people like to put others into pigeonholes, but many people form their own identity by retreating into one themselves (think about that, really hard before retorting BTW :) )

JoeP

12-05-2005, 14:03

Mod. Note

OK. I banned someone yesterday for being a pain on this thread.

I'm more than happy to do the samee thing again if the back-biting continues.

Please stick to teh subject!

Joe

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 14:14

Originally posted by Pajon
:
:confused: Do we think "Gay" people really care? Or could it be the pigeonhole syndrome some like??

Welcome to the forum Pajon.

I have actually met one gay (nb. not "Gay") person who I feel is a martyr over his sexuality. I met him again at a recent social function, where he wore a pink triangle badge, and a pink sweatshirt. I think he does suffer from a pigehole syndrome. I am aware that the prejudice he has suffered in life has made him militant, and he wears his sexuality literally as a badge.

He is though, IMO, an exception to the norm. Most gay people just want to get on with their lives free of hassle and prejudice.

Strix

12-05-2005, 14:19

I find it interesting how people like Julian Clary are so in your face when they first arrive on the scene, but when they run out of things to kick against they stop 'campaigning'.

Still, you wouldn't guess how much I like rock music if you saw me in the street these days. I looked different in my teens/early twenties ;)

marcuss

12-05-2005, 14:25

Originally posted by redrobbo
"thankfully havnt met every gay person"? "thankfully"!
Here we ago again......isn't your prejudice beginning to show marcuss?

keep your blouse on. i simply mean that if 1 in 10 people are gay then thats alot of people.
Originally posted by redrobbo

You have probably met loads of gay people, but you just don't know who they are. Not all gay people make a point of proclaiming their sexuality, so, as Strix shrewdly observed - "you don't know [who] they are, so you can't include them in your 'balanced view' "

why dont you read my reply to strix's post. i explained this. i may have been served by a gay person in a pub or a newsagents but they were neither nice nor rude so i cannot voice an opinion on them. but most of the people who i have spoken to or been introduced to that are rude are gay and the people that arnt rude i have become frinds with and know that they are straight.

Originally posted by redrobbo
One day, I may find that I no longer have to suffer ignorance, abuse, vilification, prejudice or homophobia of any kind.

and one day pigs may fly. this is not a dig, but everyone has been discriminated against for something and i wish it didn't happen but it does. whether they are male, female, gay, black, disabled, poor, old, young, etc.

Originally posted by redrobbo
One day, I may bump into marcuss, though "thankfully" for him, he will be oblivious to the fact that I am gay. That won't of course stop him stereotyping gay people with his "balanced view". But one day, maybe one day, even folk like marcuss will overcome their narrow and blinkered thinking, and accept gays as ordinary people who simply want to get on with our lives, free of prejudice and hassle.

thats a bit strong to say you dont know a thing about me. if anyone is jumping to conclusions it is you. i replyed to a thread titled 'what do you think of gay people' and i gave my opinion from the gay people i had met. that they were all rude, and i must say i stand corrected because you are gay and arnt rude at all. ahem ahem. :loopy:

i stand by my original post.

nick2

12-05-2005, 14:32

Originally posted by redrobbo
Welcome to the forum Pajon.

I have actually met one gay (nb. not "Gay") person who I feel is a martyr over his sexuality. I met him again at a recent social function, where he wore a pink triangle badge, and a pink sweatshirt. I think he does suffer from a pigehole syndrome. I am aware that the prejudice he has suffered in life has made him militant, and he wears his sexuality literally as a badge.

He is though, IMO, an exception to the norm. Most gay people just want to get on with their lives free of hassle and prejudice.

We all know someone like that, like Peter Tatchel, who are constantly fighting for our rights, wether we want him to or not.

I know people who see prejudice and homophobia everywhere (when it's not there), they are the "in your face" kind of gay men that I find incredibibly tedious, and embarasing, their gayness is the only "interesting" thing about them and they milk it for every shocked expression they can get. They also tend to be the kind of people who moan about not being accepted in society but will only go to a gay pub or club.

Like you said most of use couldn't care less and just want to get on with our lives.

Strix

12-05-2005, 14:34

Originally posted by marcuss
but most of the people who i have spoken to or been introduced to that are rude are gay and the people that arnt rude i have become frinds with and know that they are straight.

By your reconning that makes you gay, as you are rude too :confused:

marcuss

12-05-2005, 14:37

Originally posted by Strix
By your reconning that makes you gay, as you are rude too :confused:

do you care to say why or are you acustom to making random insults to people with out backing them up with a reason.

foo_fighter

12-05-2005, 14:49

Originally posted by marcuss
keep your blouse on...

...i stand by my original post.
OK, I'll be very careful what I say this time...

...why didn't you say "keep your shirt on" ?

I may be being a little over sensitive, but that looks like a little bit of prejudice creeping out there.

:suspect:

PS. Since you mentioned your "original post", how did you put question marks in it if your shift key doesn't work?

Strix

12-05-2005, 14:53

Originally posted by marcuss
do you care to say why or are you acustom to making random insults to people with out backing them up with a reason.
I don't think it's necessary, as other forum users have already expressed an agreement with this opinion :D

marcuss

12-05-2005, 14:57

i put 'keep your blouse on' because i say that to my friends when they get all het up about stuff. i would say that to them if they were gay or straight the same as i would call my friend a pansy if he screams at a spider or something. and id say that if they were gay or straight. if gay people want to be treat like everyone else then they shouldnt have a problem with stuff like this. is anyone offended by this. speak now or forever hold your peace

p.s. you read my posts so closly to notice a question mark yet you dont read close enough when i say that they choose to work, unless you feel that i am lying to cover up my sorrdid little secret......................................i dont know what a capital letter is. :o

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 14:58

Originally posted by marcuss
keep your blouse on.

Tut, tut. Rudeness, marcuss, rudeness.

Originally posted by marcuss

most of the people who i have spoken to or been introduced to that are rude are gay

Using your own definition and experience, as you are yourself rude - are you not also gay?

Originally posted by marcuss

ti gave my opinion from the gay people i had met. that they were all rude, and i must say i stand corrected because you are gay and arnt rude at all. ahem ahem. :loopy:

i stand by my original post.

Do try and be consistent in your arguments marcuss. If you are now recognising that not all gay people are rude, how can you stand by your original post?

Why not come to the forum meet on Sunday next at the Devonshire Cat (from 8 onwards). I'll stand you a pint - but only if you promise not to be rude! It's a great atmosphere, and a great place to get to know people on the forum. Hope to see you.

marcuss

12-05-2005, 15:01

Originally posted by Strix
I don't think it's necessary, as other forum users have already expressed an agreement with this opinion :D

typical. the guy who came on here and said that gays were disgusting was hounded for a reason. he obviously wasn't the only person to think so as there were 4 people that had voted the same way on the poll. i think it is rude to say an insult to someone then not back it up and for that you are pathetic and i think i just backed up why. your like a little sheep.

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 15:12

Originally posted by marcuss
i put 'keep your blouse on' because i say that to my friends when they get all het up about stuff. i would say that to them if they were gay or straight the same as i would call my friend a pansy if he screams at a spider or something. and id say that if they were gay or straight. if gay people want to be treat like everyone else then they shouldnt have a problem with stuff like this. is anyone offended by this. speak now or forever hold your peace

But you don't have any gay friends marcuss. So how would you know if you were being offensive?

Your choice of words such as "keep your blouse on" and calling people "pansy" are offensive actually. Your observation that if "gay people want to be treat like everyone else then they shouldnt have a problem with stuff like this" displays both immaturity and insensitivity.

Why are you so rude? Considering your observations on rudeness equals being gay, have you considered that you might be a closetted gay marcuss?

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 15:22

Originally posted by marcuss
i think it is rude to say an insult to someone then not back it up and for that you are pathetic and i think i just backed up why.

In that case marcuss, why didn't you show consistency by backing up this insult.....?

Originally posted by marcuss

your like a little sheep.

I personally don't buy this rudeness equals gayness theory of yours marcuss. But as you are now being constantly rude in your posts - don't you think you should be questioning your own sexuality?

Sierra

12-05-2005, 15:36

I'd just like to add that you cannot tell if someone is gay just by looking at them. The younger brother of a longtime friend of mine is one of the hunkiest, handsomest guys I've ever seen. And a fireman to boot. And he's gay.

He's also built like a brick wall, and you better believe no one gives him any sh*t about his sexual orientation. He's also an incredibly caring, gentle soul who really loves helping people. Hence his job. I've never heard him say a bad word about anyone, and since I know he won't be reading this (Hi Jimmy!)...he's also really, really, shy, and if anyone gives him a compliment, he turns beet red!

I'm convinced he's an angel in human form. Even when we were all kids, he was nice.

Of course, not everyone, regardless if they are gay or straight...is nice, or someone we'd like to know. But I would hate to think that I missed out on enjoying the company of such a loving person, simply because they were gay. It would be my loss.

:) Sierra

crowefan

12-05-2005, 15:53

as a middle aged gay bloke ( the least interesting aspect of me is the fact I am gay) I find this whole thread distastefull

what is the bloody point????

AJ sheffield

12-05-2005, 17:42

Originally posted by Greenback
I'm not sure that's right, AJ.

Delboy put across the point that homosexuality wasn't "natural", I illustrated that in fact it's widespread in the natural world, and then he proceeded to start firing off the insults at all and sundry.

I fail to see how this means he is being persecuted.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but you should at least be able to follow it through in argument.
Hi Greenback
I acknowledge the fact that homosexuality is present in the animal kingdom. In the animal kingdom sex is used to reinforce an animals position within a group and maybe lead to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource, it may even be used to form alliances within a group in order for it to enhance its standing with sexually active members of the opposite sex.
If you looked at this from the perspective of nothing more than physical pleasure, then Bonobo monkeys are a perfect example, in fact these monkeys could be classed as being bi-sexual. Almost 75% of the sexual activity of Bonobos is non reproductive. In this species it is sometimes used to resolve conflicts. Many animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they reach maturity. So in the animal kingdom homosexuality appears to be used as a social tool (no pun intended), it actually carries its own evolutionary weight in that it stimulates and motivates sexual activity across both sexes.
You do however have to be wary of reffering to animals with regards to what is acceptable in our society, after all many animals practice infantacide for example, and neither homosexual or heterosexual people condone this in human society.

Personally I do not find homosexuality offensive in the slightest. In fact it has blessed us with many of the creative aspects of society as we now know it. I do however understand that certain people have and will continue to have issues with it. As long as these issues never cross the line into violent acts or other forms of aggressive behaviour towards the gay community then it can only be a good thing to have these different opinions. We cannot all be the same, differences in opinions are what makes society what it is.

As for the persecution well, you would have to be blind not to see how the "hawks of extreme minority acceptance" have circled round posters who's ideas and opinions are different from theirs. Some of these people are so predictable in their response and so intolerant to others that it is actually quite frustrating to see.
I still cannot understand the need to tell all and sundry which minority groups you "embrace" when you were only asked about one. It has almost become fashionable in one respect.

Timo
I apologise if my post seemed to be directed at you. You know I regard you as one of the forums finest posters and I have a great deal of respect for you. I share many of your views and take great pleasure reading your extremely educated and wise posts. I know your grammar post was merely a light break in what was becoming a seriously out of control thread.
Regards
AJ

miniminch

12-05-2005, 18:02

My best friend Rodrequez has just come out and to me it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. Afterall we are all equal, aren't we?
He did have his doubts about coming out and was pleasently suprised by my reaction. 'Great, Ok,' I said. I really have no problem with him being gay , although I wished he'd told me before we shared a youth hostel room in Galway four years ago. Not that I have a problem with it but it would have been nice to know before because I thought the towel fight was just a bit of a laugh. Oh and hugging and bending down for dropped fivers is out of the question as well!

Let's have more I say.:clap: Oh Rod that's a manly clap and not a camp one - if you were wondering?

timo

12-05-2005, 19:18

AJ,
Cheers! I enjoy and respect your posts too.

Lotti

12-05-2005, 20:04

ok I am ill and going to bed so have not had time to read all posts but I just wanted to say, please don't start another private argument on this thread.

Marcuss, there were people on this thread who didn't like gays and one made it perfectly clear by being rude and personally insulting people. He has been banned. So please, by all means state your beliefs but try and make it a little more democratic. The majority of people here, don't have a problem with homosexuality, but don't start saying gay = whatever, there may be a reason why you don't like the idea of homosexuality, but after taking A level and GCSE in English, I know that you can't put forward a winning argument the way you are.
you need to:
take into consideration opposite point of view,
use appropriate language and manners
don't make personal comments
don't try to back up your argument with insults - it will not work.

As my mother taught me, if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. :D

cobaltblue

12-05-2005, 20:35

Originally posted by Lotti
ok I am ill and going to bed so have not had time to read all posts but I just wanted to say, please don't start another private argument on this thread.

Marcuss, there were people on this thread who didn't like gays and one made it perfectly clear by being rude and personally insulting people. He has been banned. So please, by all means state your beliefs but try and make it a little more democratic. The majority of people here, don't have a problem with homosexuality, but don't start saying gay = whatever, there may be a reason why you don't like the idea of homosexuality, but after taking A level and GCSE in English, I know that you can't put forward a winning argument the way you are.
you need to:
take into consideration opposite point of view,
use appropriate language and manners
don't make personal comments
don't try to back up your argument with insults - it will not work.

As my mother taught me, if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. :D

I think it's incredibly narrowminded of you to immediately pin-point one forum member for a lecture/advice when you admit you haven't the time to read through this thread. It just again show's the sheep mentality follow the leader attitude of some members of this forum.

Marcuss added HIS opinion based on HIS personal experiences, which is exactly what Avalon asked for. At no time in his post did he say being gay equated to being ignorant or rude, he merely passed comment of the people he had met. I think that it's really sad that when people's opinions challenge the majority here they are then picked upon. I cannot see how someone passing comment about how every gay person they had met had personalities he disliked can be offensive to another gay person. Change the gay part for something else - what if he had said that every scottish person he had met had foul personalities - I would not feel the need to 'spit my dummy out of the pram' and feel that comment was a personal attack on me as a Scot!

I wish people would take the time to read properly what other people post before passing comment and refrain from twisting and mis-quoting others words for their own ends.

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 22:30

Originally posted by cobaltblue
I cannot see how someone passing comment about how every gay person they had met had personalities he disliked can be offensive to another gay person.

Because cobaltblue, marcuss is stereotyping gay people. He is being incredibly judgemental - all on the basis of his limited experience and contact with gay people. That's what's offensive. The evidence is here:-

Originally posted by marcuss

from my point of view every one that i have met are all anoying rude and i dont care to speak to them unless i have to

and here:-
Originally posted by marcuss

i thankfully havnt met every gay person,

cobaltblue observed:-
Originally posted by cobaltblue

At no time in his post did he say being gay equated to being ignorant or rude

But marcuss posted:- Originally posted by marcuss
most of the people who i have spoken to or been introduced to that are rude are gay and the people that arnt rude i have become frinds with and know that they are straight.

Quite clearly, marcuss is stating that in his experience -
rude = gay; "arnt rude" {sic} = "know they are straight"

Even when challenged on his idiosyncratic methodology of determining who is and who isn't gay, marcuss displays prejudice towards gay people. The evidence is here:-

Originally posted by marcuss

i gave my opinion from the gay people i had met. that they were all rude, and i must say i stand corrected because you are gay and arnt rude at all. ahem ahem.

i stand by my original post.

So marcuss admits he stands corrected about gay people being rude, but then, incredibly, immediately stands by his original post - which asserts the exact opposite! This remarkable admission begs the question - is marcuss not prejudiced?

Originally posted by cobaltblue

I wish people would take the time to read properly what other people post before passing comment and refrain from twisting and mis-quoting others words for their own ends.

I too wish the same cobaltblue, and trust you will take note of your own words.

AJ sheffield

12-05-2005, 22:59

I personally find it disgusting that anyone was banned from this site because of what I see as the ridiculously over sensitive nature of the "forum luvvie clique". Surely the "offenders" could have been moderated better instead of having to resort to what I consider the weakest form of action available, a ban.
I think the response from the "pansexually opinionated" of the forum should bow their heads in shame after adopting a "pack" attitude against some of the posters. Although I fear they are now sitting smugly at their computers proud in the knowledge that they have chopped down someone whose ideas differ from theirs.
Once again freedom of speech has been dealt another blow by the politically correct.

redrobbo

12-05-2005, 23:36

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
I personally find it disgusting that anyone was banned from this site because of what I see as the ridiculously over sensitive nature of the "forum luvvie clique". Surely the "offenders" could have been moderated better instead of having to resort to what I consider the weakest form of action available, a ban.

A earlier warning had already been issued by the Mods.

Originally posted by AJ sheffield

I think the response from the "pansexually opinionated" of the forum should bow their heads in shame after adopting a "pack" attitude against some of the posters. Although I fear they are now sitting smugly at their computers proud in the knowledge that they have chopped down someone whose ideas differ from theirs.
Once again freedom of speech has been dealt another blow by the politically correct.

If you read my contributions to this thread, you will see that I entered into debate with Delboy3, and challenged his postings. You are probably unaware that Delboy3 then responded with two posts, both of which were personally directed at me. They were offensive, vulgar, and amounted to homophobic vilification of me as a gay person.

These posts were totally absent of any constructive debate. That is why, after a warning had already been issued by the Mods, these posts were pulled, his quotes in other posts were edited, and a ban issued.

I have no problems debating with anyone whose views I may oppose. I do not come on the forum to be subjected to personal abuse though. There are limits to the freedom of speech. So when someone descends into posting hate-fuelled, abusive rantings, I think the Mods took appropriate action. It had nothing to do with being politically correct. It had everything to do with maintaining a family forum.

AJ sheffield

12-05-2005, 23:53

Hi redrobbo
I was not targetting you but merely venting my frustration at the way some users simply cannot accept the fact that people exist that have differing opinions to theirs. You are obviously educated and articulate and you are correct, I have missed some of the posts Delboy made. I have said before and will say it again, it appears the most sensitive people who voice their opinions on minority groups (I actually hate that term because it is so clinical in its wording) are actually not members of those groups in the first place. I think these very people have a deep seated desire to be accepted by the groups they are speaking for and are intolerant, sometimes this over zealous attitude both feeds and creates animosity.

mojoworking

12-05-2005, 23:56

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
I personally find it disgusting that anyone was banned from this site because of what I see as the ridiculously over sensitive nature of the "forum luvvie clique". Surely the "offenders" could have been moderated better instead of having to resort to what I consider the weakest form of action available, a ban.
I think the response from the "pansexually opinionated" of the forum should bow their heads in shame after adopting a "pack" attitude against some of the posters. Although I fear they are now sitting smugly at their computers proud in the knowledge that they have chopped down someone whose ideas differ from theirs.
Once again freedom of speech has been dealt another blow by the politically correct.

Very well said AJ. You've hit the nail firmly on the head there.

It seems any point of view is allowed on here, unless it differs from the views held by the hard core clique who dominate the forum and seem to spend every waking minute posting sycophantic drivel and generally patting each other on the back.

This clique dominates EVERY topic (no matter how trivial) and woe betide anyone who takes an opposing view. As you say, they adopt a pack attitude and hurl derision and cleverly-worded insults at those who dare to disagree with them .

It's reached the point where meaningful debate is all but stifled and virtually every thread degenerates into hostility

Don_Kiddick

13-05-2005, 00:20

unless of course it's a thread about desperate housewives, big brother or some other triviality :thumbsup:

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 01:01

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
unless of course it's a thread about desperate housewives, big brother or some other triviality :thumbsup:

But quite often even trivial threads of that kind are dominated by the same half dozen serial posters who appear to have a cast iron opinion on virtually every topic under the sun. ;)

redrobbo

13-05-2005, 01:04

Originally posted by mojoworking
But quite often even trivial threads of that kind are dominated by the same half dozen serial posters who appear to have a cast iron opinion on virtually every topic under the sun. ;)

Including the 32 pages I recently waded through on the Michael Jackson thread. Talk about cast iron opinions! Simply amazing!

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 01:17

Originally posted by redrobbo
Including the 32 pages I recently waded through on the Michael Jackson thread. Talk about cast iron opinions! Simply amazing!

Cast iron opinions are OK, but those with differing opinions should be allowed to express their views also without fear of being ridiculed, ganged-up on or dismissed as racist, homophobic, or any of those other well-worn SF insults.

redrobbo

13-05-2005, 01:39

Originally posted by mojoworking
Cast iron opinions are OK, but those with differing opinions should be allowed to express their views also without fear of being ridiculed, ganged-up on or dismissed as racist, homophobic, or any of those other well-worn SF insults.

I personally have no problem in reading differing opinions to mine. Indeed, I have actually changed my viewpoint on one occasion having followed a debate on the forum.

I think ridicule has its place. If a post opens itself to ridicule, then I think the poster has to accept that as a legitimate response, in much the same way as a sharp critical opinion (I think the terminology is 'flamed'?).

If a poster is in a minority, I don't see that they are necessarily being ganged-up on by the majority of posters.

If anyone is being dismissed as racist, homophobic or similar, I think it is incumbent of the challenger to support their accusations with evidence, and not just wild accusations.

I also think that posters ought to step aside sometimes, and delay posting a reply until their rage or anger has subsided. In some of the heated debates on threads, where it descends into name calling and such like, I have noticed that the timing of the posts is usually only a few minutes apart. I always advocate reading another thread first, in order to calm down and take stock. This may help avoid posting unsubtantiated claims about another poster, and might just stop some of this silly name-calling.

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 02:07

Originally posted by redrobbo
I personally have no problem in reading differing opinions to mine. Indeed, I have actually changed my viewpoint on one occasion having followed a debate on the forum.

I think ridicule has its place. If a post opens itself to ridicule, then I think the poster has to accept that as a legitimate response, in much the same way as a sharp critical opinion (I think the terminology is 'flamed'?).

If a poster is in a minority, I don't see that they are necessarily being ganged-up on by the majority of posters.

If anyone is being dismissed as racist, homophobic or similar, I think it is incumbent of the challenger to support their accusations with evidence, and not just wild accusations.

I also think that posters ought to step aside sometimes, and delay posting a reply until their rage or anger has subsided. In some of the heated debates on threads, where it descends into name calling and such like, I have noticed that the timing of the posts is usually only a few minutes apart. I always advocate reading another thread first, in order to calm down and take stock. This may help avoid posting unsubtantiated claims about another poster, and might just stop some of this silly name-calling.

You make some good points, but I don't feel ridicule is ever appropriate unless the recipient is being openly rude or particularly stupid.

If someone has an honest view to express, but is not eloquent or well-read enough to match your intellectual prowess or writing skills, I still maintain they should be allowed to express that view without fear of the sky falling in on them.

I've tried really hard to understand why some of the "pro-gay" people on this thread are getting so worked up and hostile by the negative views. As a gay person, does it really matter to you if someone does not approve of your lifestyle? Why should you care?

Lotti

13-05-2005, 05:22

Ok, just to defend myself here, because I've always thought the Sheffield Forum was a pretty friendly place:

I'm sorry I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but I did state that and I was ill - I needed to go to bed and just said simply that I didn't want anyone else banned (as I too think it's a shame) and could we keep it friendly because what I did read, didn't look friendly!

Secondly, I do NOT have any desire to be accepted by any group. I have always been different and not really fitted in to any groups and it doesn't bother me at all. I couldn't give a **** whether gays liked me or not, neither did I give a **** when the popular girls at school didn't like me.

What I do have a desire for, is that I won't look at a category of people and know that they are not who I want to be with. I don't care whether any gay person liked me, I do have gay friends, but if a gay person didn't like me then that's the same as anyone else not liking me, the only reason I wouldn't like them is because of the type of people we are (personality wise) and not because they were gay.

The only reason I stated my opinion was because it was an opinion poll and yes - i know what you'll say 'the others stated their opinions too' but I wasn't being offensive to anyone when I stated my opinion. At least, I don't believe I was - as you said AJ you didn't see Delboy's posts and therefore you cannot imagine the amount of abuse each one held!

Thankyou, I am really disappointed with this as I love Sheffield Forum but I'm not entirely sure what I'll do.

I'm sorry for any offense I caused to anyone.

Lotti

13-05-2005, 05:26

And another thing, I was brought up to take into consideration other people's viewpoints - so I am NOT sat 'smugly' at my pc thinking I've stamped someone out, but I DO accept gay people (I accept anyone but it was an example before people start picking!)

Thankyou.

foo_fighter

13-05-2005, 06:22

Wow this thread has gone off topic quickly.

Mojo / AJ, aren't you just serial posters defending a different minority...

...and from the evidence of the last page or so, ganging up on Red...

...think about it. ;)

AJ sheffield

13-05-2005, 06:44

Hi Lotti
Please do not feel my post was totally aimed at you either, I seem to have given the impression to some users that it was aimed directly at them and if this is the feeling they get then I do apologise, but by the same token you can imagine how Delboy felt in this respect. There are posters who I believe are intolerant, there are posters I believe are arrogant and ignorant, these people are from both sides of the debate and maybe Delboy fell into those categories as well. I am by no means immune from it, I am not perfect I freely admit that and on occasions I will fall into these categories. I have seen in many threads the way peolpe have "mobbed" posters for their differing opinions and I am probably guilty of the same thing somewhere down the line myself.
The last thing I want to do is upset you or anyone else with my remarks so you can imagine how I felt this morning after seeing your post. Lotti you never offended me and I really hope that I did not offend you. You, as with everyone who has posted in this thread have to continue with your beliefs and continue talking about them because that is what debate is all about. As I said before, being different is what makes us all interesting. I look forward to hearing from you soon Lotti and I hope your feeling better real soon :)

Yes Foo your absolutely right, I am a serial poster to an extent. I have talked to red and as I said to him I was not trying to single any individual posters out. It was merely me venting my frustration at the fact someone was banned as a result of this thread. I still do feel however that certain aspects of bullying to the point where Delboy probably thought his last resort was insult were employed in this thread.
P.S hope your doing ok Foo :thumbsup:

foo_fighter

13-05-2005, 07:28

Originally posted by AJ sheffield
...I was not trying to single any individual posters out. It was merely me venting my frustration at the fact someone was banned as a result of this thread. I still do feel however that certain aspects of bullying to the point where Delboy probably thought his last resort was insult were employed in this thread.
P.S hope your doing ok Foo :thumbsup:
AJ, (I'm good, hope you're keeping well too) I sympathise greatly with the points you have raised, and to a great degree actually agree with you, sometimes things can be over reacted to, however, in this case, I think the level of personal abuse, and previous warnings led to a very clear case.

After all, there have been conflicting views expressed, and some reasonable discussion, some quite heated, but only one person has had to be personally warned, and subsequently banned.

But, as I already said, we digress, back to the thread...

:)

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 07:30

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Wow this thread has gone off topic quickly.

Mojo / AJ, aren't you just serial posters defending a different minority...

...and from the evidence of the last page or so, ganging up on Red...

...think about it. ;)

Well, I'm not a serial poster in the sense that hopefully you don't see my name on virtually EVERY topic, like some I could mention. Even when they don't really have anything to say, you'll see the same names pop up again and again.

As for "defending a different minority". I'm not too sure what that means. However, I still don't see any need for name calling and ridicule simple because someone has a different point of view.

foo_fighter

13-05-2005, 07:39

Originally posted by mojoworking
...However, I still don't see any need for name calling and ridicule simple because someone has a different point of view.
Do you mean name-calling like,

"...every one that i have met are all anoying rude and i dont care to speak to them unless i have to"

"They are disgusting"

"...it is all the **** pushers..."

and some others so much worse they were removed.

Is that what you mean?

timo

13-05-2005, 07:42

AJ, Foo, Mojo- you are all damned good posters. Let's not worry too much about who 'serial' posters are etc. Sometimes we ALL get the proverbial 'bee in the bonnet' about something or other. We all enjoy the threads, that is why we post. Sometimes dissenting debate can become stifled by the majority, sometimes posts can be misinterpreted. The point is, the quality on here is generally good, and all three of you have contributed to the quality. Sermon by Rev Timo over...

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 08:01

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Do you mean name-calling like,

"...every one that i have met are all anoying rude and i dont care to speak to them unless i have to"

"They are disgusting"

"...it is all the **** pushers..."

and some others so much worse they were removed.

Is that what you mean?

If you care to plough through the entire thread you'll see there was name-calling on both sides. Some of it was general and some of it was more personal. Can you guess which was which?

cobaltblue

13-05-2005, 08:15

Hello Redrobbo

Originally posted by redrobbo
Because cobaltblue, marcuss is stereotyping gay people. He is being incredibly judgemental - all on the basis of his limited experience and contact with gay people. That's what's offensive.

Quite clearly, Marcuss is stating that in his experience (albeit limited) he has found the gay people HE has met to be rude. Where does this equate to the whole gay community being rude. He has simply stated of those he has met has has found them rude.

Originally posted by marcuss
imo ever gay person i know or who i have spoken to i dont like. this isn't because they are gay but its just their whole personality

Originally posted by marcuss
i hope and presume not all gay people are the same but from my point of view every one that i have met are all anoying rude and i dont care to speak to them unless i have to

Note "this ISN'T because they are GAY its just their whole PERSONALITY. Unfortunately for marcuss the x amount of gay people he has met have been rude.

Originally posted by marcuss
i didnt say that all gay people were like this because i thankfully havnt met every gay person, just the ones that i have met.

The use of the word "thankfully" I agree can seem somewhat judgemental but he also re-iterates he does not think all gay people are like this only the ones he has met. Again I am missing the rude=gay being applied to anymore than the gay people marcuss met. I do not see where he is stereotyping the whole gay community - it's a simple fact based on his experience - the few gay people he has met were rude. Again I am lost as to how this stereotypes every gay person.

We have both read exactly the same words yet have a completely different interpretation of them. My interpretation is based on what I see on 'forum' paper and ink as it were. I am not reading anymore into marcuss' comments than what is there.

In summary I refer my honourable forummer back to my original comment - I do indeed read properly what other people post before passing comment and I do refrain from twisting and mis-quoting others words for my own ends. I could not see how a gay person would have been offended by marcuss' original post. It clearly did offend you hence you replied to my post. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

foo_fighter

13-05-2005, 08:35

Originally posted by mojoworking
If you care to plough through the entire thread you'll see there was name-calling on both sides. Some of it was general and some of it was more personal. Can you guess which was which?
Which was which?

You say that as if one were more reprehensible than the other, and anyway...

...having read through the whole thread, it's been both general and more personal from both "sides".

(Just ask Red about some of the comments directed at him if you want proof).

:)

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 08:50

Originally posted by foo_fighter
Which was which?

You say that as if one were more reprehensible than the other, and anyway...

...having read through the whole thread, it's been both general and more personal from both "sides".

(Just ask Red about some of the comments directed at him if you want proof).

:)

Well, the impression I got was that negative comments about gays in general were instantly met with pointed personal insults aimed directly at the poster (although there may have been nastiness on both sides that I missed, to be fair).

Call me old-fashioned, but a reasoned, general observation about a particular minority group does not warrant a full-scale, mob-handed personal attack on the observer - even if the said observation is plainly of a stereotypical nature.

The silliness peaked when the use of the word "blouse" (instead of "shirt") was construed as homophobic and the user was then given a serious dressing down (no pun intended) by several posters.

foo_fighter

13-05-2005, 09:53

Originally posted by mojoworking
The silliness peaked when the use of the word "blouse" (instead of "shirt") was construed as homophobic and the user was then given a serious dressing down (no pun intended) by several posters.
“A serious dressing down, by several posters”?

All I can find is:
Originally posted by foo_fighter
OK, I'll be very careful what I say this time...

...why didn't you say "keep your shirt on" ?

I may be being a little over sensitive, but that looks like a little bit of prejudice creeping out there.

:suspect:

Originally posted by redrobbo
Tut, tut. Rudeness, marcuss, rudeness.
Originally posted by redrobbo
Your choice of words such as "keep your blouse on" and calling people "pansy" are offensive actually.
If these are examples of "a serious dressing down, by several posters" what would you define DelBoys outburst as?

Lotti

13-05-2005, 10:23

Sorry I really couldn't resist one last look - you don't have to answer this, as i won't be back on, if you want me to know the answer, you can pm me I don't mind, but MoJo, just have a think, why shouldn't people contribute to every thread if they want to? It's a forum and those who have more time will contribute to more threads (personally I'm trying to cut down as I'm getting quite addicted!)

But I don't think you should call them 'serial posters' as there are no rules as to how many posts you can make - as far as I'm aware! if there are can someone let me know and i'll start economising! (that's not meant in any offending way I just would like to know if there is a limit!)

mojoworking

13-05-2005, 10:38

Originally posted by Lotti
Sorry I really couldn't resist one last look - you don't have to answer this, as i won't be back on, if you want me to know the answer, you can pm me I don't mind, but MoJo, just have a think, why shouldn't people contribute to every thread if they want to? It's a forum and those who have more time will contribute to more threads (personally I'm trying to cut down as I'm getting quite addicted!)

But I don't think you should call them 'serial posters' as there are no rules as to how many posts you can make - as far as I'm aware! if there are can someone let me know and i'll start economising! (that's not meant in any offending way I just would like to know if there is a limit!)

There's no limit as far as I'm aware and far be it from me to tell anyone what to do even if there were.

redrobbo

13-05-2005, 17:02

Originally posted by foo_fighter

Mojo / AJ, aren't you.....from the evidence of the last page or so, ganging up on Red...

I would like to state that I do not feel that either AJ sheffield or Mojoworking have been ganging up on me. Indeed, AJ sheffield specifically stated in one post that he was not targetting me. I try to read general posts dispassionately, and thus try to avoid falling into a trap that they may be personally aimed at anyone, myself included. I have found their contributions to this thread interesting and thought provoking. Being a relative newcomer to the forum, I am not acquainted with the concept of 'serial posters' - though I confess it is an intriguing notion!

I believe that where I have posted on this thread, I have done so in the spirit of engagement. Where I have challenged various viewpoints, I have attempted to back these up with critical analysis of the original posts. I always attempt to avoid name calling - in the belief that you undermine your own argument, and posts are then just reduced to a slanging match.

I was following this thread with interest, and posted initially in response to a question from Greenback - where I cited an example of recent homophobic attacks that I am aware of. I stated then that I thought this poll was fundamentally flawed, and would not vote, and nor have I done so.

I commented briefly on an anti-gay post by halevan, and was interested to read his subsequent explanation of why he thought gays were "disgusting". Whilst not in agreement with his views, I nevertheless respected them, and saw no need to
respond again. halevan is entitled to his views as much as anyone else, and he explained what they were.

Delboy3 subsequently entered the debate with several posts. The Mods felt it necessary to issue a warning to "stay on topic and not to let the thread degenerate in to name calling" and advised that if it did, offending posts would be removed and offending posters would be temporarily removed. Delboy3 posted his apologies and stated "I will not carrry on".

Contributors then debated 'what is normal?' - a discussion that I found relevent and particularly interesting. I re-entered the debate to challenge a further post from Delboy3. Despite his assurances to the Mods, Delboy3 responded solely with homophobic name-calling personally directed at me. The Mods responded as they said they would - by removing offensive posts and issuing a ban. No-one can state that Delboy3 hadn't been warned, as he had himself acknowledged the warning.

I understand why Shiesh and others object to the removal of posts - on the grounds that they wish to make their own judgements about offensive material. There are though limits on free speech, and I do not come on the forum to be personally abused on the basis of my sexual orientation. As happychick observed "Delboy3 contributed nothing constructive to the debate. When he realised that he couldn't back up what he was saying with facts he resorted to personally insulting Redrobbo".

I also challenged marcuss, believing that he displayed peculiar logic. cobaltblue disagreed with my interpretation of the posts by marcuss. I have respected cobaltblue's contentions, which he backed up with supporting evidence - even though I don't agree with his analysis. I think it is up to the readers to determine the merits of our opposing views. To do otherwise could lead to endless posts over the same point - which would bore the pants of most folk (myself included!).

I think it is necessary not to respond to everything that I disagree with. For example, JonJParr began a post "Whilst I may not agree with practising homosexuality (it goes against my religious beliefs)....". I personally would have liked to have debated the issue of religion and practising homosexuality - but sometimes you have to stand back and acknowledge that there are opposing views to your own, and desist from posting on every aspect of the topic under discussion. (Maybe another day JonJParr?).

Maybe this underlines some of the concerns of AJ sheffield and Mojoworking? In my attempts to understand their arguments, I perceive that they see the 'usual suspects' ("serial posters"?) flocking to condemn minority viewpoints. And if I understand them correctly, I think they are also trying to defend minority posters from the perceived norm of acceptable views. If so, I would applaud these admirable sentiments. I have no difficulty
in supporting the contention of Mojoworking that a general observation about a minority group does not warrant "a full-scale, mob-handed personal attack on the observer". However, I will myself challenge stereotypical views, though hopefully maintaining my standards of constructive engagement. Which reminds me - I still stand by my offer to buy marcuss a pint if he would like to come to the next forum meet.

Yodameister

13-05-2005, 17:15

I think one of the main things about prejudice is ignorance and being sheltered from people who are different to you.

When I was much younger I thought that I found homosexuality distasteful. I grew up in a virtually all white environment at school, and I probably thought that I would feel uncomfortable amongst people of different race and or culture.

But when you actually get out into the "big wide world" you realise that people are all generally very similar and you can divide them into "considerate" and "inconsiderate" based on their actions.

Things like sexual preference I feel are generally "handed out" fairly arbitrarily amongst the ranks of the "good" and the "bad".

marcuss

16-05-2005, 08:47

my gosh i see i have missed quite alot while i have been away. i find it amazing how you can post 1 thing and get 10 different interpritations of what you 'ment'. just to clear up, i never said rude = gay. i said that every gay person i met happened to be rude. i also said that i didn't think all gay people were like this but i hadn't met every gay person and before you all jump on at me, yes i did say 'thankfully' i hadn't met every gay person. i wished i hadn't said thankfully as it seems to have offended some people. i simply ment, as i have already explained, that as it was posted that 1 in 10 people were gay, then that would have been alot of gay people.

i also wasn't contridicting myself but being sarcastic in that i find redrobo rude so am there fore no closer in my search to meet a gay person who isnt rude.

i havn't ment to cause anyone any offence but it seems that some people, in particular redrobo, are offended by me and the fact that i dont agree with his opinion and that my opinion is different. i do apologise to you and feel bad for you because i am sure that you are going to meet people with stronger views than me and people that dont like gay people because they are just that and think that if you are offended by my posts then you will get a shock in the real world. i hope for your sake this never happens but there are some very homophobic people out there (just to clarify, i am not saying that ALL people are homophobic but i have met some)