What do people think about all the regeneration that's going on in Sheffield? Do you think it's too little too late or do you think Sheffiled can return to it's glory days when it was top of the Steel industry with a decent economy?

Originally posted by JulesB
What do people think about all the regeneration that's going on in Sheffield? Do you think it's too little too late or do you think Sheffiled can return to it's glory days when it was top of the Steel industry with a decent economy?

Yes it can. I think a great job has been done when you think we were a big industrial city. Although the price paid has been big with many hard working people thrown on the scrap heap, you have to move forward. I for one am very proud of this city and what is being achieved. That doesn't mean to say that there isn't lots more to do. We will be great again but not for the excellent steel and cutlery, that will be our heritage to show off to the new people that visit us, like all the thousands of students that will come from around the world.

Hello People,

Right, first of all I'm a student at Manchester Metropolitan Univeristy, but am originally from Sheffield. Have been sat here tonight reading quite a few of the posts on the board and have become fascinated by some of the comments written on the board, especially about the on going regeneration of the steel city. Being born and bread in Sheffield I feel proud to linked with the great city, and if it wasn't for the fact my course wasnt availble to study in sheffield I would still be there (probably).

Well anyway, I have been compelled to write because of some of the comments, like I have said. I am really looking forward to seeing Sheffield in two months when I come back for the summer. Hopefully there'll have been many changes for the better, maybe someone in the know can tell me what has, and is about, happen concerning the regeneration.

What I want to comment on is the amount of posts that I have read that either disagree with the revitalisation and rebuilding, or have some gripe about it. Having lived in Manchester for nearly 10 months now I had forgot about how many people complain in sheffield about things that a few years down the line will seem so small. Maybe if these people stopped complaining the regeneration would be faster? Maybe the city centre would already be resembling somewhere like manchester or leeds, with fantastic shops such as zara, mango, ted baker, paperchase, h&m (i could go on), exciting night life with late bars and decent clubs, interesting and diverse areas and communities - like the ones here in manchester where we have china town, the northern quarter (alternative and arty - a bit like division st/west st), and the gay village. But last time I came home, about two months ago, although there were significant changes already apparent, it was still sheffield, and there were still people complaining about contractors cutting down a few trees in barkers pool (just for example).

Yes, I believe that it is kind of unfair to compare sheffield with manchester, simply because they experienced the shattering IRA bomb which definitely kick started their regeneration, and got the likes of selfridges, harvey nichols and louis vuitton interested in opening stores here. But at the same time Manchester took full advantage of this, and used it as an oppertunity to completely revitalise this amazing city. Maybe sheffield and its residents should take the sheffield regeneration oppertunity, with all this outside investment and european funding, with the same excitement that manchester did and really get behind the project. Stop complaining about little things and take pride in Sheffield, both what it once was and what it will be in the future. Maybe in five years, with the right support and enthusiasm Sheffield could rival the likes of manchester and leeds.

Any comments on this and news on the regeneration would be brilliant. Ben

Brilliant first post Ben :thumbsup:

Stop complaining about little things and take pride in Sheffield, both what it once was and what it will be in the future. Maybe in five years, with the right support and enthusiasm Sheffield could rival the likes of manchester and leeds.
I think the people of Sheffield should lose this 'Us and Them' attitude and club together too!
Although i fear this is a long way off :(

With over 10,000 members and climbing, you'd have thought we could do something about it :?

Welcome to the forum Ben aka sheffguy86.

I endorse a lot of your comments and observations. The economic regeneration of our fair city is continues to gather pace.

The Queen officially opened the Winter Gardens, and we have the much loved and award winning Peace Gardens in the heart of the city, plus the Millenium Galleries. The parks and open spaces continue to received increased investment, and the revitalised Botanical Gardens - surely the jewel in the crown - is looking simply fantastic! We are looking forward to the re-opening of both the Mappin Gallery and the City Hall in the near future, following extensive refurbishments.

Hotels and offices are under construction. West One and similar mixed housing/commercial use developments have transformed parts of the heart of the city. Council housing is receiving massive investment to meet the government's decent homes standards by 2010, and there are Masterplans to improve the appearance of some of our suburbs, and secure their long term future.

There are plans to improve the shopping facilities in the city centre, and more besides. You will see a difference when you next return to Sheffield, but remember, there is more to come and more to be done.

Sadly, there are always detractors. I anticipate they will make their views known on this thread you have started. They will moan about the cranes, the construction work, and the traffic delays caused by the refurbishment of the rail station and the £50m northern section of the ring road. But you can't make an omelette without first breaking the eggs. The current disruption is inevitable, but IMO, worth it.

Sheffield needs people like you Ben. People with imagination and enthusiasm. People who want to see Sheffield succeed. I hope that when you have completed your studies, you will consider returning to Sheffield, and be part of our vibrant and cosmopolitan city.

Well,

I've lived here for nigh on 20 years and there have been vast improvements. And there have been setbacks.

However, let's look at something from a slightly different perspective. Why does regeneration mean we have to turn in to a clone of these other cities with the relevant 'quarters'. The reason why many older cities have charm is that the areas grew organically and were not put together on a map by a bunch of planners saying 'OK....that's the arty quarter....if folks don't like it tough' which is what seems to happen today. Organic, emergent growth is how cities grow and develop.

And people object to trees being cut down. Oh my! People wanting a say in how their community develops? Whoooooo....steady on! Can't have anyone exhibiting a little protest that goes against 'The Master Plan', can we?

I think that indicates an interest in their surroundings that you DON'T get from people by building some up market shops, inner city dwelling and night clubs.

Perhaps the reason why people are complaining is that they LIKE the way the city is?

I have a distrust of 'Big Anything'. The time I spent involved with such things has given me a legacy of stories that could rival 'Event Horizon' in terms of visceral horror. I believe in bottom up change - there is no one model for urban development and regeneration. Each city needs to find it's own way - a 'paint by numbers' approach where everywhere has to have it's quarters and it's night life and it's shops will not 'stick' in teh long term. Like an organ plonked in to a body, rejection of the Master Pln is a very real possibility if you're not sensitive to what the people on the ground want.

Joe

I too believe sheffield should find its own identity, and not go along with a similar 'master plan' manchester and leeds did, but you've got to hand it to them, their cities are now bustling places, with interesting things to do for both the young and old, and everyone inbetween. I just feel like, although sheffield is on the turn, we are still sat in a rut, and this needs to change. All the on going regeneration is also creating more jobs, which can only be a good thing, right?

Plus where you say - "a 'paint by numbers' approach where everywhere has to have it's quarters and it's night life and it's shops will not 'stick' in teh long term" - I completely disagree. I dont want to be rude, but havve you ever been to Manchester or Leeds for more than a few days. This kind of planning does work. Here in manchester we have the northern quarter, full of antique/junk shops, alternative shops, second hand record shops, and bars and cafes that host live indie/alt bands, then just 10 mins walk you have the gay village, which is fantastic for a night out, everything just works. Im not saying 'quick divide sheffield into quarters, but it IS already working. I have been involved with the cultural industries quarter in sheffield, as it links with my design and art direction course, and its good to have all these craft/art/design places near each other. Plus with them all being centred together it has brought renouned companies to sheffield and also made ones stay that could have moved to london or manchester - such as The Designers Republic (who have worked for Gatecrasher and Pot Noodle) and the guys behind the 'Bored of the Beckhams' t-shirts, they were seen everywhere last year including in the fashion mag Vogue.

But hey, I suppose you also object to the amazing steel sculpture going near the station as well - am I correct??

Ben

Funnily enough I don't object to sculpture - there are quite a few fine steel pieces around the city, both in the city centre and in the East End, that I admire.

I'm sorry if that means I don't live up to your image of me as soem pig thick yokel who objects for the sake of objecting.

I lived in Manchester as a student and on my return visits would agree that the centre has improved from the way it was in the 1980s.

All I'm saying is that regeneration is something that needs to be organic to make it stick. New jobs are essential, but whether they can all be created in the media and creative industries I'm not sure.

I have been involved in numerous projects in the CIQ / Science Park / Technology Parks from the late 1980s onwards, so I'm not totally ignorant of the benefits; just because I object to some of the approaches taken to regeneration does not make me a luddite.

If Sheffield is such a hole, why do so many people stay here after graduation? Why do so many of us who've worked in Leeds prefer to live in Sheffield?

Regeneration isn't something that is a one off event; it should be an organic process that continues indefinitely. It's also sad that you seem to look at the regeneration of the city from a very limited direction - that of design and media - rather than the wider picture. To many people here Designer's Republic (amazingly enough I have heard of them, and have worked on projects which used their services) isn't a name that makes them sit up and listen; neither do I view folks whose primary claim to fame is a design of T-Shirt as a massive contribution to the economic well being of the city.

A balanced approach to regeneration is essential; we need to build a wide economy in the city, accessible to all people in the city. Constructing a media and technology friendly monoculture similar to the heavy industry monoculture of 30 years ago is fine until that particularly balloon bursts.

A problem with basing regeneration around these sort of projects is that there is a lack of 'tie in' to a place - in economic terms entry costs and exit costs are both low for the companies involved. In my own business interests it's easier in some cases to get code developed in India, CGI effects generated in Eastern Europe, and so on. Buoilding citywide regeneration on the back of such flexible businesses is not necessarily a long term plan.

Joe

Can see this from all POV really. But we can all surely understand a little of the frustrations of people who visualise something new and vibrant and feel that it's being held back by over cautious people who prefer to keep the status quo as quo as it ever was.

A case in point is the Peace Gardens, we all knew and loved them but be honest, they were looking very sad and well past their sell-by date (due to neglect yes, but also it was time to move on) The new Peace Gardens has added a tremendous amount of movement and colour to the centre and also provided a lot of fun and amusement to the younger members of our citizenry. But had some of the more vociferous protesters had their way ... it would never have been. IMO opinion what replaced the old, is far better.

Which cant be said for everything - like the removal of the Yorkshire Grey for another soulless office block, for instance. We could have had the new council offices next to the Town Hall (much more convenient) and the Winter Garden as a backdrop to the Peace Gardens and the new hotel where the office blocks are going and the Yorkshire Grey could then have remained in situ. But we can't as it was all a fait accompli years ago, and no-one was willing to make a change it seemed.

Sheffguy has a point that we do SEEM to moan and grumble more than people in other cities. But maybe it appears that way because we don't actually live there and therefore we don't really hear about it or see the protests local people are making in other places?

In the end we all love Sheffield and have its best interests at heart. We just have different ways of showing it. There's no other city quite like it anywhere else. Someone on here once posted "there are two types of people, those who live in sheffield and those who wish they did" And it does seem as though it might be true - we must be doing something right!

Originally posted by sheffguy86

Yes, I believe that it is kind of unfair to compare sheffield with manchester, simply because they experienced the shattering IRA bomb which definitely kick started their regeneration, and got the likes of selfridges, harvey nichols and louis vuitton interested in opening stores here. But at the same time Manchester took full advantage of this, and used it as an oppertunity to completely revitalise this amazing city.



Unfortunately for us Jerry Adams has retired from his role as urban regeneration officer. That's why our government has recently tried to get Al Qaeda on board. Sadly manchester (http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm) has got all of those as well!
It looks like sheffield will just have to wait.

Welcome to sheff forum Ben. I'm a Manc living in Sheff so I guess that makes us opposites:D

I can remember a time when The Moor was a road and buses used to go up and down it and so have seen a lot of changes in the city over the years. However I remember seeing artistic impressions of Fargate, The hole in the road and even the building at the bottom of The Moor which was the Manpower Services Building. However nowadays there doesn't seem to be much public promotion or discussion on new projects and I think this is why people are inclined to have a little moan. I know for example that there is going to be a new retail quarter but haven't seen anything about it on billboards or any form of public display and I'd like to bet that it wont have any nice little antique shops as the rents or sale prices will be astronomical.
How many people saw plans for the Winter garden which after being heralded as a 'really bold statement of a city on the move' is going to be hidden and dwarfed by large featureless office blocks and a hotel?

2 threads merged.

The problem with regenerating Sheffield, is that it takes sooooo long to actually see any improvement (especially when compared to other large cities)! The A57 link road is a classic example!!!




Originally posted by WallBuilder
The hole in the road and even the building at the bottom of The Moor which was the Manpower Services Building.


I feel old:(.



Originally posted by WallBuilder
How many people saw plans for the Winter garden which after being heralded as a 'really bold statement of a city on the move' is going to be hidden and dwarfed by large featureless office blocks and a hotel?


It'll have fallen down in 10 years anyway;).

This thread is fascinating! As I work for an agency that undertakes regeneration work across Yorkshire and consequently see examples of regeneration activity on a daily basis, I think Sheffield has massively untapped potential. I do not think the city council are consulting enough with residents, nor are they opening their eyes to the great deal of activity that is regenerative almost as a by product of peoples passions for their city, their business and their community.

I agree with joe that the creative industries alone cannot be a regenerative saviour. No single sector or area of business can rescue a city and be relied upon for greater long term economic stability and development. There needs to be a full spectrum of sector specific business support and investment in order for there to be the diversity required for continuous growth or to simply sustain a city.

The issue with the creative industries and use of culture is that it is often obvious and visible. Take Newcastle and Gateshead for example, these areas have benefitted from the hugely visible Sage Gateshead, Baltic, Angel of the North and redevelopment of the Quayside. These are obvious benefits that investors can see, world class facilities that they and their clients can use, the Hilton Gateshead being one of the many businesses to invest in the area. We are, after all animals who often rely on visual cues. If we want to succeed and see an obviously successful area we are more likely to gravitate towards it than not. This is not to say that big buildings and sculpture is the only visible means of impressing those you want to attract or retaining those you want to keep. If you or your company are doing something good, great or even better, unique, tell everyone about it!! Strategic PR and Marketing make a big difference.

Anyway, got to go. Love to hear more thoughts.

Sheffield City Centre has always suffered due to its shape, that it is, in effect, a line of shops running from Moorfoot down to Commercial Street, as opposed to other cities whose main shopping areas are spread out.

This situation is improving and should do more when the likes of Cole Brothers move to new premises near Furnival Square in 5 years' time. Obvious improvements have come by way of the narrowing of both Moore Street and Eyre Street/Arundel Gate which has 'brought in' surrounding areas which were hitherto 'cut off'. Thus, the so-called Cultural Quarter (Devonshire Green) no feels closer to the Moor; the Railway Station and Bus Station and business premises around Brown Street/Paternoster Row feel nearer to the Heart of Sheffield.

Talking of which, the regeneration of the former Peace Gardens started out brightly and with promise. Alas, I can't say how disappointed I feel regarding the bland, boring and 1960s office block that has been dumped in this prime location. I share too, with other correspondents who have stated that the Winter Gardens should not have been hemmed in by way of the new hotel. I actually feel quite angry about this as what could have been the real jewel-in-the-crown has been ruined by poor planning (and lack of enterprise).

But I suppose I should have expected this! Our planners are very narrow-minded and certainly not quick on the uptake when it comes to forward thinking designs and ideas.

How long have we been waiting for a feature at the top of Fargate?

The regeneration in general is promising and there are probably more reasons to spend time in town there there have ever been.

Personally, I'd love to see the Manpower Building razed to the ground, opening up Moorfoot and its connection (once again) with Ecclesall Road and Abbeydale Road.

But to end, sadly I have to say that it's more an opportunity lost and wasted, than one grasped with both hands. However, in trying to be positive, the city centre is definitely better than it was in the 1980s. Before that, who knows?

Hey all,
Do any of you mind being quoted in a journalistic piece I am writing on the Hotels and Offices to be built on the site of Sheaf Market Exchange Street?
If any of you have any opinions on this project in particular could you get in touch?
joa04sje@sheffield.ac.uk

sam

Infact, can anyone who doesn't mind being quoted on any of their opinions on any aspect of the regeneration get in touch.
it really would be greatly appreciated and a massive help to whether i pass or fail my course lol
sorry to sound desperate

I'm all for it. Regenerating city centres reduces the need to build in less sustainable areas on the outskirts of the city. There are problems inherent with this however such as conjestion due to infrastructure being suitable for the time and not now - there's also amenity issues that come with providing high-density residential developments but good design can overcome this to an extent.

I agree with Joe Prichard that many people are obviously happy with aspects of Sheffield that's why they stay here after study (think it was him). However, i think that regeneration can take place which respects and incorporates the heritage of the city as part of its design (as has happened in manchester).

Sheffield needs to exploit the fact that it attracts (at the moment) European Objectivbe One funding and lets not forget that regeneration is multi-faceted. If it is to move forward then it needs to also be attractive to business.

Having said that I think the city centre is pretty rubbish! it doesn't seem to be a 'heart' due to it's very elongated nature and Meadowhall hasn't helped.

This thread is fascinating! The degeneration of Sheffield is taking place right before our very eyes! Many people all living together all opposing each other's views - brilliant! OK thats me.

I think its called a discussion. From such things actions are taken. What are you doing?

the main problem I have with the current regeneration is that it seems to be all happening at the same time with little thought or planning. I suspect the way you are meant to do it is bit by bit.

The centre has been a dump for a long time (especially the Moor) and is in much need of investment. My concern with ou wonderful council is that they seem to not plan very well or do anything that's a bit different.

I fear a carbon copy of things in other cities.

We could do with more inovation and less emulate

Originally posted by robbie
The centre has been a dump for a long time (especially the Moor) and is in much need of investment. My concern with ou wonderful council is that they seem to not plan very well or do anything that's a bit different.

I fear a carbon copy of things in other cities.

We could do with more inovation and less emulate

These are my concerns too. Sheffield was very, very late in building an airport - which came to very little other than being completely obscured by another light industrial park. It was late in adopting café bar culture and city centre living when other cities pioneered it years ago.

Now city life is getting a bit passé and I fear that Sheffield will end up with entire new neighbourhoods of city centre apartments that nobody wants which end up as student housing or a new Park Hill. I certainly don't have any problem with the apartments being used in this way but it certainly won't attract affluent young singles and couples, nor the businesses they work and shop in.

After living in Manchester, I can't imagine i'll ever move back to Sheffield. The roads in Sheffield are disgusting and I don't think the council will ever do anything radical to encourage outsiders to come here, other than continually play 'catch-up' with other cities.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
Talking of which, the regeneration of the former Peace Gardens started out brightly and with promise. Alas, I can't say how disappointed I feel regarding the bland, boring and 1960s office block that has been dumped in this prime location. I share too, with other correspondents who have stated that the Winter Gardens should not have been hemmed in by way of the new hotel. I actually feel quite angry about this as what could have been the real jewel-in-the-crown has been ruined by poor planning (and lack of enterprise).

If I've got my facts right, it was the Lib Dems that signed the contract with the developers to build the new hotel. IMO I think it would of been better to expand the Peace Gardens up to the Winter Gardens, making it a green peaceful haven in the middle of the city centre. It would of allowed visitors as as well as locals to admire what I think is an impressive building, but sadly will now be hidden from sight. Again it was short sightedness for capital gain.

Originally posted by alchresearch
The roads in Sheffield are disgusting

It's not just Sheffield that has bad roads, many other cities do as well, like Leeds.

I have to say how exciting I think this regeneration is....

I am relocating to Sheffield from London and when I told people that I had to move to Sheffield I got so much negative feedback from people who had been there to visit someone at university.... which, unfortunately was a few years ago!

BUT and it is a BIG BUT..... I have visited Sheffield quite a few times in the last couple of months to see for myself whether I could stand to move to this and I quote "GREY UGLY CITY"

AND IT IS ALL RUBBISH!

Sheffield is not ugly at all and it is definitely not grey in the sense that I took it! There is the magnificent Peace Gardens which I have to say are so beautiful - I was there only a couple of weeks ago with the sun shining the water flowing and it was great! Some of the new buildings are so attractive and with regeneration comes money... wages go up, house prices go up and eventually an area becomes prosperous.

Take Birmingham for example! 10 years ago the properties were really cheap, there was the ugly bullring which STANK and it was really disgusting... NOW it is fantastic - there are really great shops - Harvey Nicks, Selfridges and people can make a good living.

I myself am looking forward to moving to Sheffield and partaking of the Northern hospitality :-) x

I did actually see some consultation about the "Heart of The City" retail quarter type thing a couple of years ago. The council and Sheffield First had a stall in the middle of Fargate on a Saturday, and a questionnaire with a suggestion box, as well as a model showing the proposed layout. I did comment on it but I think they should have done this more often to give more people the opportunity to express their views.

As far as cultural regeneration is concerned, there are a number of issues here. I have done some research into this recently and spoken to a number of (fairly) influential people about the cultural strategy for Sheffield. The impression I got was that the council are rather reluctant to promote Sheffield when compared to other cities, and have a slightly old fashioned attitude towards this sort of thing. They have started consultation on the strategy recently and I went to a meeting about it, but they haven't been taking on board the views of those who actually work in Sheffield's cultural industries. They are treating it as an empty PR excercise, as if they have suddenly realised they need to do something about it but haven't really thought about it properly. A more co-ordinated approach would be great, but only if it is approched in a considered way with someone who really knows and understands the arts and culture at the helm.

Hi guys, not posted for a while on this, or in fact any other subject, been busy finishing off work at uni. Now finished for the summer, Im suspecting a full time job to pay back some of my over draft :( .

Anyway, on the subject of sheffield's regeneration I am looking forward to seeing what has been achieved in the last few months when I come home for a few days next week. Hopefully there will be some visible improvements, especially with the McDonald hotel, St. Pauls Place, and Barkers Pool.

The new hotel, as I see it, is quite a risky subject on here, as many of you object to it. However I feel that I has been put in the right place, after all it there was always plans to build something next to the winter gardens anyway, hence the large grey wall that runs down the side of it. Plus the new hotel, from what I gather will blend in with the old and new of the town hall and the winter gardens. Also by placing buildings round the exciting structure of the gardens will provide interesting vistas from various places in the city centre, especially when the new public space is created between the winter gardens, st pauls no.1 and the peace gardens. I also here there will be a cafe/bar/restaurant in st pauls no.1 which will be great during the summer for admiring the new buildings whilst having a drink!

As for barkers pool im excited by the improvements going on there, the new water features should look good, especially by night with lighting. It will also provide the fitting front to the vastly improved city hall when it opens in the autumn. Does anyone know what will be on the sight of John Lewis when it relocates in 2009. Before I left JLP last year I tried find out what was going there but no one seemed quite sure. The only problem I see with its replacement is that it will have the hideous Kingdom next to it, and by hideous I mean the building AND the actual club.

Looks like my question opened a can of worms! The reason I was asking is because I'm in my final year at Sheffield University. I know a first year student has already posted a request for help, but as part of my final year I'm writing a portfolio and Sheffield regeneration and new job opps etc is part of it.

If anyone, who has really strong opinions would like to PM me about their views, I'd really appreciate it. There seems to be some very articukate people on here who would add some colour to my piece I've no doubt!

Cheers, Ju

Can I make a few coments on minor issues?

1) drove past the station last week to pick hubby up and noticed the new lamp posts that have gone up - FANTASTIC - a lovely curved design similar to one's i saw in France. These little but significant features make a huge difference IMHO

2) paving - I hope the new areas are not going to have all those little cobbles coz they may 'look' good but walking on them is really awful.

3) can we have plenty of litter bins?! that are emptied regularly! Passed one the other day which was overflowing - people DO try to be tidy, but when the bins are spilling the rubbish out onto the street it's pretty depressing

and finally - I love the new Peace Gardens!

JulesB - would love to help, as you might have read I do have quite a few opinions!!! You can email me at benjaminwhiteley@gmail.com if you want to! Finished for the summer so have quite a lot of time on my hands. Ben.

Originally posted by Hels
Can I make a few coments on minor issues?

1) drove past the station last week to pick hubby up and noticed the new lamp posts that have gone up - FANTASTIC - a lovely curved design similar to one's i saw in France. These little but significant features make a huge difference IMHO

2) paving - I hope the new areas are not going to have all those little cobbles coz they may 'look' good but walking on them is really awful.

3) can we have plenty of litter bins?! that are emptied regularly! Passed one the other day which was overflowing - people DO try to be tidy, but when the bins are spilling the rubbish out onto the street it's pretty depressing

and finally - I love the new Peace Gardens!


1) They are nice, but please paint them a nicer colour!! There's enough grey in the sky thankyou very much!!

2) Agreed, but i'm sure they'll emerge somewhere as they are doing on the newly pedestrianised Howard Street.

3) I doubt it. In this age of terrorist threats and so on, putting bins next to a packed station aint the best plan. I hope i'm wrong though.

yes mr dinpy, i remember a few years ago the pain in trying to find a bin in central london. Sheesh. Could terrorists not just put a bomb anywhere? Best ban city centres then!

Originally posted by JulesB
What do people think about all the regeneration that's going on in Sheffield? Do you think it's too little too late or do you think Sheffiled can return to it's glory days when it was top of the Steel industry with a decent economy?


Glory days ???


Sheffield was scruffy, people couldn't breathe in the industrial smog and they died too young.

I wish I was born in Devon.

Originally posted by JulesB
What do people think about all the regeneration that's going on in Sheffield? Do you think it's too little too late or do you think Sheffiled can return to it's glory days when it was top of the Steel industry with a decent economy?

I wish they would do something with Flat Street and the underpass from there to Arundel Gate, what people must think of our City where they are walking along a dark hole full of p*ss.

"Leeds is full of footballers shopping in Harvey Nichols, Sheffield is full of men in hard hats building things and Barnsley is the new Tuscany."

...quote from the 'Lonely Planet guide to Britain' and the only mention of Sheffield in this review.

http://travel.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,7445,1490711,00.html

I do die a little inside every time I walk past the Peace Gardens and see what has been allowed to happen there. The hotel and office buildings are a disgrace and we, the people of Sheffield, should start some kind of campaign to let our planners and council members know that we expect better. I work in the planning department and it is very depressing and frustrating to see how quickly people here bend to the lack of imagination and frugal nature of developers. Are deals being done behind closed doors?does anyone know what the process was for selecting the design for the Hotel next to the Winter Gardens? That is city council land - OUR land - and we let them build a pile of crap on it and hide our beautiful Winter Gardens from view.

I think Sheffield should be allowed to grow in its own way but one thing is can learn from Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool etc is that it HAS to demand better quality Urban Design or we will end up as the argos of Northern Cities.

Find out who your local elected member of the council is and hassle them relentlessly about this.

caustic - I'm with you on this, but I share more an anger than a 'bit of myself dying' at the junk that's decamped in the Peace Gardens. (In other words, the office block.)

It's the tackiest, plain ugliest, most vulgar and backward looking building I've seen in a long time. It's a form of graffiti and the council need locking up for this wanton destruction.

The Heart of Sheffield: A broken heart. It's a knife through Constable's Haywain; it's Lord's cricket pitch ripped up. It's a violent blot on an otherwise (hitherto) promising landscape.

Man, I'm mad. The Heart of Sheffield has not only been raped, but been made to sleep in the same bed as the rapist for the rest of its life.

Grrrrrrr



:rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

oh Ousetunes, now you've made me cry - we must gather together our collective rage and sadness and do something about it...... any ideas?

<nips off to put kettle of apathy on and opens a packet of grim resignation biscuits>

You are right, the new offices are a mess but are you actually saying your preferred what was there before, the situation HAS improved even if they are slightly more modern egg boxes.

Maybe Sheffield can’t be as picky as other cities and maybe the standards have to be dropped slightly to encourage development.

IMO back door deals are definitely being done, agreeing large scale planning permissions is never as black and white as yes or no.

Finally regeneration isn’t just about buildings, it’s about people, economy, crime etc, basically improving the area. Even if the buildings are not the best to look at, the area can still be improved, therefore the regeneration would be a success. You can’t judge regeneration on the attractiveness of buildings, which is a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by the fonz

Maybe Sheffield can’t be as picky as other cities and maybe the standards have to be dropped slightly to encourage development.



Why ever not?

We have to live here - why can't we expct to live in a nice environment.

And building quality and looks ARE important - the neo-brutalist architecture of the 50s / 60s was immensely practical but probably gave rise to many social problems.

Provide a living environment that disrespects the people who are expected to live in it, and you shouldn't expect teh people to respect that environment.

Joe

Sheffield as a location for offices/businesses etc is not as desirable as places like Manchester and Leeds (although hopefully this is improving) therefore the demands for this space type of building may not be as great, the range of developers interested in the site would be less therefore the quality would not need to be as high. Its all about the money in the end, the less the developers can spend the better, its sad but thats just the way it is.

Bad buildings don’t make a bad environment; they do contribute to it but are not the only factor. The architecture of the 50/60s cant be blamed for social problems, it was poor quality of workmanship, the open spaces, covered alleys, dimly lit walkways, poor waste management that caused the problems.

Although these offices look bad now once they are full and the development is viewed as a whole with its open spaces etc it may not be as bad, I might be wrong, it still might be pants, I just think that sometimes people are too quick to judge.

the fonz - with all due respect the only message coming out of your post is that - in the end - the building might not be as bad as we think. But why wait? It's a monstrosity. It's an opportunity lost for Sheffield to have something that little bit better than what we've become used to.

Why shouldn't we aspire to have an exciting building in the very heart of our city? This isn't just a bad choice. It looks incredibly cheap, an anything-will-do solution. (Shaken hands behind locked doors, certainly.)

It's a slap in the face to everyone whose hopes were lifted by the success and for once, excellent design of the Winter Gardens and the general improvements to the Peace Gardens.

Those people who spent their lunch times in the gardens, whose kids ran through the fountain on a summer's day. To old and young alike who enjoyed the greenery and light the gardens afforded them. Okay, there's no reason why lunches and fun should not continue in the gardens, but all will be shadowed by that defaced bus-shelter of a building.

There's an irony in your question asking if I would have preferred the old egg-box. The sad truth is, in that getting rid of that carbunkel, only the city chiefs of Sheffield could find something even worse and this is it. This is our Heart of the City!

Sorry to be crude, but now there will always be something akin to a pile of vomit outside Ha! Ha! Unfortunately, no amount of disinfectant will get rid of it.

Heads should roll.

You're missing the point. The St Pauls development is privately funded using real money that has to be earned at a profit. The Peace Gardens / Winter Gardens / M Galleries were all publicly funded using taxpayers money where no profit is required, merely excuses for business plans.


This is how commercial property development works in Sheffield...

Sheffield has very low demand from business.
Therefore rentals are lower.
Therefore less can be spent on buildings.
Therefore the buildings are of lower aesthetic value.

If occupiers in Sheffield only want to spend Skoda Money, they don't get a Porsche.

Originally posted by the fonz


Bad buildings don’t make a bad environment; they do contribute to it but are not the only factor. The architecture of the 50/60s cant be blamed for social problems, it was poor quality of workmanship, the open spaces, covered alleys, dimly lit walkways, poor waste management that caused the problems.



Surely an aspect of architecture is to build the buildings to last and also to take account of the open spaces in which they reside? The dimly lit walkways - who designed the walkways? the local dustman? I would have thought an architect may have been involved somewhere.

This is sort of like saying the operation was a success but the patient died.

The urban environment does not just exist; it is constructed from the buildings and spaces that are the product of urban design and development. If you end up with an environment that exacerbates social problems then that is surely caused by the built environment.

Joe

The heart of the city is not just about two or three office blocks, its about Sheffield city centre as a whole.

These building are not the best but just because people don’t like them doesn’t automatically mean they will fail to help the regeneration of Sheffield, which is what this thread is about

Maybe heads should roll but they won’t. In a few years time, when the heart of the city is finished do you think people will really be bothered about those office blocks.

Been around a lot longer than some living in Sheffield as a kid and now just outside.

It's been like the Forth Bridge since the 60's it starts and as we go to the other end the first bit gets pulled down then something else rebuilt.

e.g Kelvin flats -made a b**ls up then pull it down.

Hole in road fell out of favour with it too many underpasses- Fill it in.

Underpass on Arundel Gate- Same as hole in road fill in and grass over + all the other underpasses.

all high rise flats put up pull down.

Park Hill - Create a eyesore place falling to bits - Refubish after putting refugees etc in.

Tram service - fill all rail lines in - If it had been modernised there would have been a very cost effective tramway system all over Sheffield - In stead of a New limited area system that is too expensive and knowone oustide Sheffield wants.

Sheffield Council have always liked wasting money on rebuilding and there is a good chance always will do.

desy - I'm 36 next month but can certainly understand your post having witnessed some of the points you make. Flats go up to replace back-to-back housing, promising betterment for everyone, cleaner environments to grow up in, 'streets in the sky' wasn't it?

Most of these high-rise buildings have been razed to the floor (having provided a Supertram network that ran past their very doors, ofcause). And what's replacing them? Why, houses.

The Hole In The Road I'm beginning to miss. Yes, it became a heap, but if you look at what it was like when it was new, it was a wonderful, and certainly for Sheffield, a forward- thinking idea. So it becomes a dump which the council can't be bothered to clean up. Answer: fill it in.

Ditto Arundel Gate. However, as things stand, both Arundel Gate and Moore Street's 'downsizing' have been an improvement, helping other areas of the city be brought nearer to the city itself (as opposed to being cut-off due to the dual-carriageways. However, wasn't it the very idea of building dual-carriageways that cut-off these areas once deemed part of the city centre? ie, planners getting it wrong).

Now we have the debacle at the Peace Gardens. Up went the egg-box; down it came. Replace it with this excuse of a building.

Time and again, as history clearly illustrates, our city planners get it wrong. Yes, their motives might have been for us all to enjoy better living, a nicer city centre and - once upon a time at least - a transport system/network that did exactly what it said on the tin.

Goodwin Fountain looked beautiful when it was first opened (but I hasten to add I am looking at old photographs as opposed to personal memory, although I do recall at least 6 of the jets dribbling over empty boxes and beer cans).

My main point being, that not only have our councillors got it wrong, it's about time some of them had the guts to admit they got it wrong and looking at the Peace Gardens (and that office block), another opportunity for them to do so is coming right their way - and fast.

Originally posted by Ousetunes
desy - I'm 36 next month but can certainly understand your post having witnessed some of the points you make. Flats go up to replace back-to-back housing, promising betterment for everyone, cleaner environments to grow up in, 'streets in the sky' wasn't it?

Most of these high-rise buildings have been razed to the floor (having provided a Supertram network that ran past their very doors, ofcause). And what's replacing them? Why, houses.

The Hole In The Road I'm beginning to miss. Yes, it became a heap, but if you look at what it was like when it was new, it was a wonderful, and certainly for Sheffield, a forward- thinking idea. So it becomes a dump which the council can't be bothered to clean up. Answer: fill it in.

Ditto Arundel Gate. However, as things stand, both Arundel Gate and Moore Street's 'downsizing' have been an improvement, helping other areas of the city be brought nearer to the city itself (as opposed to being cut-off due to the dual-carriageways. However, wasn't it the very idea of building dual-carriageways that cut-off these areas once deemed part of the city centre? ie, planners getting it wrong).

Now we have the debacle at the Peace Gardens. Up went the egg-box; down it came. Replace it with this excuse of a building.

Time and again, as history clearly illustrates, our city planners get it wrong. Yes, their motives might have been for us all to enjoy better living, a nicer city centre and - once upon a time at least - a transport system/network that did exactly what it said on the tin.

Goodwin Fountain looked beautiful when it was first opened (but I hasten to add I am looking at old photographs as opposed to personal memory, although I do recall at least 6 of the jets dribbling over empty boxes and beer cans).

My main point being, that not only have our councillors got it wrong, it's about time some of them had the guts to admit they got it wrong and looking at the Peace Gardens (and that office block), another opportunity for them to do so is coming right their way - and fast.


Spot on couldn't have put it better!

But the reply will be cost reductions in the rates will have effected the maintainence in the city centre.

The issues here are complex and not easily as easily solved as some people would like to make out.

I strongly believe that Sheffield undersells itself and undervalues it's worth - that appears, in the main, to be the fault of the city council as most Sheffielders know what a wonderful city we live in and know it could be improved with sympathetic and high quality developments.

Buildings will always fall into dis-repair and neglect if they are 'maintained' on the cheap. A cheaper building, kept clean, tidy and well maintained will improve the image of the city as well as, if not better, than an expensive superior building that is not maintained.

That said, quality always speaks for itself - and I feel it is the quality we are missing out on here. In the past, buildings were built to last, to high quality designs from high quality materials and that is why we value the old building so much. What is being built today is all done on the cheap and the only good thing is - they won't be around for long. It's short-sighted and an abuse of the trust we put into the council IMHO.

Had to do a double take driving past the Peace Gardens yesterday... A new building looks uncannily like the old 'egg box' except flat sided.... Any reason half of it couldn't have been left standing and smoothed over a bit...?

Of course there'll be reasons, there always is!

What do I care? Huh??

I am doing some research on regeneration in Sheffield city centre, and wondered what people though about the new Heart of the City project, next to the Peace Gardens and Winter Gardens. I would be especially intersted to hear if anyone got involved in the consultation process for the plans, or has tried to find more out about the plans; how they did this and how they found the process.

Any comments will be useful to me.

Thannks!

As I watch the redevelopment of Sheffield from afar I find it increasingly harder to seperate real life from a satire on the same. Sheffield is a huge city, the fourth largest in England, and yet it is almost criminally ignored by the cognoscenti and the national media, who seem to regard it is a distant backwater unworthy of even the most cursory mention. I saw the new hotel and office development for the first time recently. I was initially impressed, but the more I have thought about it the more I am angered.

This abject state of affairs is brought into sharp focus when one considers other cities. Witness Newcastle, barely a third of the size of Sheffield and compare the vast swathes of coverage it receives in comparison to Sheffield. Sir Norman Foster's Sage Centre is a stunning addition to the Tyne waterfront. Indeed, the image of the Tyne Bridge and Baltic Centre are as much ingrained on the psyche of the public as is the London skyline. Sheffield has nothing similar, apart from the impressive Winter Gardens and suffers from a paucity of ideas and ambition that is simply staggering. In so many instances, it seems Sheffield is regarded with little more than contempt; a city licked to a splinter by economic fate, willing to take any substandard handout from developers without complaint. Where is the ambition? Where are the esteemed architects like Foster? Where is the big vision?

St. Paul's Place is in the very heart of the city centre. It should say "this is Sheffield. This is what we stand for. This is our front room." Instead it is a bland development no different from any business park found on reclaimed brown belt land outside Swindon. Is this all there is? New pavements and lampposts? Is that all Sheffield is worth?

Midland Station is risible in comparison to Manchester's stunning Piccadilly development. The station needed grand plans on widescreen scale. Instead we've gotten the equivalent of a portable television struggling to receive Channel Five through an ariel forged out of a bent coat hanger. A tram route should have been dropped down Howard Street, across a plaza in the place of Sheaf roundabout. This would have made a fitting welcome to the city. Instead we're expected to be impressed with a wall of steel made in another city (what a kick in the teeth that is - it really says it all), no doubt soon to be plastered with photocopied flyers for the arrival of the latest winner of Big Brother at the student's union. We are meant to coo appropriately at the rather grand sounding 'supercrossing' that will help ferry pedestrians across the road, when it is nothing more than a set of traffic lights dressed up with a ridiculously pompous name.

So, the Peace Gardens becomes home to some bland boxes filled with call centre workers in low paid telesales jobs. (And I'd be surprised if these offices ended up for any other use quite frankly). Where is the landmark project? The iconic structure that tells the world about our city? I fully understand the scepticism of many, who within living memory have seen the developments of the 1960's come and go. The tragedy is that even those 1960's ideals are gone. Forty years ago the developers saw for Sheffield a future of streets in the sky, escalators for shoppers and the Hole in the Road. Now they dream in monochrome, in small scale and without the faintest clue of the opportunity they are letting slip through their fingers.

SheffieldSean - I doth my cap to you and the next pint is on me, mate.

You've said exactly what I feel (as you'll have hopefully read in my other posts across the forum).

I'm very angry about it too. Still, I shan't stress myself be repeating what I've already said.

Except maybe, that the last one to leave, will you kindly turn the light out?

Think SheffieldSean as hit it on the head with Sheffield in terms of regeneration:thumbsup:

The direction the council, Sheffield First and Sheffield One are leading the regeneration of Sheffield is very worrying, when you step outside Sheffield and look at how other cities are shaping up.

There doesn't seem to be any VISION, AMBITION or PRIDE in Sheffield, no wonder the city gets so little National recognition.

I have to disagree with your last sentence there skyfitsboy. Nice thoughts, but unfortunately untainted by with the reality of regeneration and development in Sheffield.

VISION: No lack of vision, just a lack of opportunity to carry it out.

AMBITION: On day 1 of a project there is enormous ambition. Unfortunately, that's all too soon / often knocked out of investors by SCC and the Sheffield Bubble. It's simply far easier to earn profits in other places.

PRIDE: There is far more than there should be. That single factor holds back Sheffield more than anything else that I can think of. Stupid talk of 'mucky Leeds' disables Sheffield's progress. I was in Leeds yesterday, and there are more cranes on one site than in the whole of Sheffield.

Once a city understands where it is it can go forward. Sheffield is behind simply because it held onto its primary industries longer than Leeds and Manchester. They have a head start, and that's that. Sheffield may have its chance with emerging industries, but there seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on catching up with cities that have already stolen an unassailable march.

In writing that post I've somewhat reminded myself of one of the reasons why I left Sheffield. It was simply the anger I felt at watching a great city being treated like a second class town. I'm not sure if Sheffield can ever truly catch up with the likes of Manchester. I suspect the chance has gone. It went a long time ago, with the construction of Meadowhall, the ill fated venture with the airport and a city council that stood back and watched Sheffield get left behind.

sheffield city council have a regeneration scheme and are investing a lot of money into the centre. is it really making a difference or is the money put to the wrong use.
millenium galleries and coffee shops being built while houses still have downstairs toilets?? what are your experiences? what do you think?
please leave name and street address if possible so i know the area you are referring to.

Originally posted by joa02ds
sheffield city council have a regeneration scheme and are investing a lot of money into the centre. is it really making a difference or is the money put to the wrong use.
millenium galleries and coffee shops being built while houses still have downstairs toilets?? what are your experiences? what do you think?
please leave name and street address if possible so i know the area you are referring to.
First post ever, no hello or anything, just a rather abrupt request for lots of info'...

...wouldn't mind telling us why you want to know would you?

:confused:




Welcome to the forum anyway.

:)

hello...........:) :) :) :) :)

there you go.

im a journalism student at sheffield uni writing a feature on the coucils efforts on improvement. its for my coursework and need to refer to peoples experiences of being in a 'deprived' city.

thought this would be a good place to hear what people have to say so i can get an idea how resiedents feel towrds the improvements.

thanks

Boy is this a long and diverse string.
First - Sheffield is an excellent city to live in, not too big and not too small, stonking countryside and something for everyone.
However, the problem with much regeneration of the place, indeed of anywhere that has gone through industrial decline, is that of replacing that which has been lost with something equally viable.
Sheffield used to be a major indistrial city, and though more of that industry remains than you might think, the problem of employment remains also.
As someone who is looking for work after being forced to give up my old job, I am concerned, and not merely for myself, that whilst there are plenty of jobs about the quality of them is not good and the pay neither.
Unless this problem is addressed regeneration in the long term is going to be a disappoointment.
I don't know what the solution is, and if we look at areas where there has been what I would call final industrial decay (eg cornwall, mining dead for nearly a century!) you can see that viable working class jobs are never really replaced.
That@s not to say that working in dangerous disase ridden old industries constituted the good old days, but neither does working in call centres, food factories and shops constitute a bright future.
I suspect (where can you get the figures?) that if we analysed the type and distribution of employment and income in this area say over the last 3 decadesi, we would see the following patterns of divergence

1 increase in well paid and specialised jobs for well qualified people

2 decrease in skilled manual jobs and training

3 increase in non productive service sector jobs

4 increase in part time and temporary work

5 a decrease in the average wage for those not in well paid jobs (if you see what I mean!) widening the gap between the better off and the not well off (if you see what I mean)

(In essence what I mean is the difference bewteen the average manual worker and a lawyer, back in the late sixties is less than the difference an average service sector worker and a lawyer today!).

Also, making Sheffield look better is fine, and a bit of embourgeoisment never hurt anyone, but if this is being done without fundamental wealth generation then it may be the appearance is all you may change.

And what about the housing crisis? Is that a price of regeneration.

And finally the word vision has been used in this string more than once - tricky word - what about OBBJECTIVE, PURPOSE? Things a bit more concrete.....

Therein lies the rub Piglet. The jobs created in place of traditional industries are fleeting, transient, low paid, do not recognise union membership and are often temporary. George Monbiot writes (http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2003/10/21/the-flight-to-india/) about the flight of jobs to the Indian subcontinent, those very jobs that were meant to replace the thousands lost during the decline of traditional industry. It seems that in facing an uncertain future, cities like Sheffield are clutching at anything in order to stave off the inevitable; replacing low paid jobs with even lower paid jobs, thousands upon thousands of workers without health care plans, pensions and homes of their own. With no chance of ever getting off the ground.

You make a salient final point. What is the objective? What is the purpose? St. Pauls place has three possibilities and I would suggest none of them will benefit the majority.

Firstly, the retail units will likely be taken by businesses in the service industries; perhaps finding use as a bar or a coffee house. Probably the distant outpost of an American conglomerate, who will then undercut local businesses, the wages will be low and are likely to be staffed by students and those desperate enough to take anything they are offered.

The office space will most likely be taken for use a call centre. Again, the wages will be low, the jobs will have little long term prospect and the work will be transient, as quickly to depart to India as it was in arriving.

The residential units will be purchased by property developers and rented out as a nest egg towards retirement, sucking thousands of pounds out of the Sheffield ecomony each month.

What do any of these ventures do for the vast majority of Sheffielders? Very little indeed. The council will point to a glossy brochure and claim everything is on the up, but scratch the veneer and look closely and you'll see it's all a pack of cards built on quicksand.

Originally posted by Tony
I have to disagree with your last sentence there skyfitsboy. Nice thoughts, but unfortunately untainted by with the reality of regeneration and development in Sheffield.

VISION: No lack of vision, just a lack of opportunity to carry it out.

AMBITION: On day 1 of a project there is enormous ambition. Unfortunately, that's all too soon / often knocked out of investors by SCC and the Sheffield Bubble. It's simply far easier to earn profits in other places.

PRIDE: There is far more than there should be. That single factor holds back Sheffield more than anything else that I can think of. Stupid talk of 'mucky Leeds' disables Sheffield's progress. I was in Leeds yesterday, and there are more cranes on one site than in the whole of Sheffield.

Once a city understands where it is it can go forward. Sheffield is behind simply because it held onto its primary industries longer than Leeds and Manchester. They have a head start, and that's that. Sheffield may have its chance with emerging industries, but there seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on catching up with cities that have already stolen an unassailable march.

It is the council and regeneration partners that I am refering to as lacking these qualities.

Originally posted by SheffieldSean
The office space will most likely be taken for use a call centre. Again, the wages will be low, the jobs will have little long term prospect and the work will be transient, as quickly to depart to India as it was in arriving.

Actually Sean, I believe that the offices have been pre-let as headquarters accommodation for international law firm DLA.

M

Originally posted by Mattski
Actually Sean, I believe that the offices have been pre-let as headquarters accommodation for international law firm DLA.

M

Infinitely preferable to yet another call centre.

Originally posted by joa02ds
hello...........:) :) :) :) :)

there you go.

im a journalism student at sheffield uni writing a feature on the coucils efforts on improvement. its for my coursework and need to refer to peoples experiences of being in a 'deprived' city.

thought this would be a good place to hear what people have to say so i can get an idea how resiedents feel towrds the improvements.

thanks

OK....you might ask the same of Leeds - back-to-back houses still common wheras we ditched our last one a few years back.

And downstair's toilets? Hello? If you'd said outside toilets, OK, but what about people who need a loo downstairs? For crying out loud, I've seen some VERY nice houses with downstairs toilets and bathrooms. Not exactly Dickensian!

I think the improvements are on the whole good - there are some areas where I thin a little more thought could have been appied, and I'm not yet sure that there is enough thought going in to long term economic regeneration rather than infrastructure re-development, but it's OK.

And I don't feel terribly deprived here in Sheffield.

Oh...and I hope your spelling and punctuation are better in your coursework than here. (I know, I'm being picky...it's Friday...:) )

Joe

Originally posted by joa02ds
sheffield city council have a regeneration scheme and are investing a lot of money into the centre. is it really making a difference or is the money put to the wrong use.
millenium galleries and coffee shops being built while houses still have downstairs toilets?? what are your experiences? what do you think?
please leave name and street address if possible so i know the area you are referring to.

There is over one billion pounds of investment currently going into the decent homes standard and re-generation of our estates. That is separate money to the 50 million pounds being spent on the completion of the ring-road, which itself is in addition to the millions of pounds being spent on improving the City Hall, Mappin Gallery, the Peace Gardens, Botanical Gardens, Winter Gardens and Millenium Galleries, etc.

You clearly believe that some priority is wrong, and that we need to spend less in one budget and more in another. Could you give us a hint about which few million quid you think should be switched from one budget to another?

Otherwise please check your facts before posting - you could be accused of sloppy journalism.

Originally posted by joa02ds
sheffield city council have a regeneration scheme and are investing a lot of money into the centre. is it really making a difference or is the money put to the wrong use.
millenium galleries and coffee shops being built while houses still have downstairs toilets?? what are your experiences? what do you think?
please leave name and street address if possible so i know the area you are referring to.

This has got to be a wind-up!

Originally posted by Whelk
This has got to be a wind-up!

Well, if it is, s/he is at it again here,

Home > Sheffield > Living in/Moving to Sheffield
Poor Sheffield!!! - living on the estates
Originally posted by joa02ds
hi. i was wondering where are the poorest and most deprived parts of sheffield? whats it like in those areas and living there??

i work up an mannor top and i know it had a pretty bad rep but people have said there are worse places...

has anypone lived in these really deprived spots?
Link:
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=434219#post434219



So, does anyone know what it's like "being in a 'deprived' city"...

...or even "the poorest and most deprived parts of sheffield", like "the mannor"?

Cheeky sod!

:mad:

The journalism faculty is one of the very best in the country. I find it hard to believe they'd delight in a student eschewing the use of correct punctuation and capital letters. Unless they've really gone to the dogs...

Im sorry but i can't choose the stories and sources i am given. I am told the detail i have to look at and the things i have to respond to.

a forum on a website is not something which is published in the press so my punctuation isnt really something i worry about.

If people would stop being so touchy and sarcastic then it might help.... thats all im asking.

If you do not have an oppinion on the subject then please dont bother posting or direct your frustation somewhere else.

cheers

My other post makes no direct statements about the mannor at all so please read properly before commenting. I cant help what people have said to me...... don't take it so personal!

Originally posted by Mattski
Actually Sean, I believe that the offices have been pre-let as headquarters accommodation for international law firm DLA.

M
Don't kid yourself.

'International Law Firm' DLA is originally a Sheffield firm of solicitors.

The new offices are essentially a call centre. The new ones may also consolidate and provide an exit from the out of date premises in the city centre that are the Fountain Precinct.

Of course, that will leave Fountain Precinct largely empty.

This does not represent new investment or jobs, merely improving the working environment for existing staff whilst leaving existing offices empty at the end of a lease.

None of the subject area reflects my opinion and the statements are only what i have been told to work from.

........I think Sheffield is fine.

Originally posted by joa02ds
...My other post makes no direct statements about the mannor at all so please read properly before commenting...
From "Poor Sheffield!!! - living on the estates",
Originally posted by joa02ds
...i work up an mannor top and i know it had a pretty bad rep but people have said there are worse places...
There's a direct mention, even quoted it earlier on this thread.

I do hope you grow up to be a better journalist than this, upsetting your sources is no way to get a good story, now is it?

;)

I say nothing about my view on the Manor.

Originally posted by joa02ds
I say nothing about my view on the Manor.
Ooh, wriggling nicely like a "good" journalist...

...well, on the bright side, at least you've realised it only has one "n", that's a start.

;)

I did live, for a short time, in a shared house on Louth Road, Endcliffe that still retained its downstairs toilet, albeit in something of a dusty state of disrepair. It was more a home for various small crawling things.

One only has to look to Manchester to see the huge disparity between the very impressive city centre and some of the most vile, crime ridden estates elsewhere in the city. Sheffield is no different.











Edited: Never post without your glasses on. Time, is not, ever, spelt tiime. :loopy:

Mod:

Threads merged.

I've been working in Rotherham for the last three days on behalf of a property developer wanting to regenerate the town, starting with the Royal Mail Sorting Office on Westgate...

My job was basically to inform people about the scheme and ask their opinion... although most people who completed the questionaire were in favour, the majority of people refused to stop and simply called over their shoulders "flatten it" or "bomb it".......

All I can say is at least the Sheffielders generally seem a bit more optimistic and hopeful about the regeneration than the Rotherites!!!!

Originally posted by Tony
Don't kid yourself.

'International Law Firm' DLA is originally a Sheffield firm of solicitors.

So obviously there are no firms in Sheffield or Sheffield based products of any worth in the international market!

DLA is over 200 years old! We should be proud of their Sheffield origins!

I suppose its time for my say on this issue. Sheffield really does need to look at cities like Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle etc, and the developments they're getting there. There are a considerable number of 40-plus storey buildings planned and under construction in these cities - buildings like Manchesters' 48-storey Beetham tower on Deansgate is under construction. The 60-storey Piccadilly Place and 44-storey Crown Building have both been given planning permission, whilst there is the huge Spinningfields development to name but a few. In Leeds, the 32-storey Bridgewater Place is under construction, Globe Road, which includes a 31-storey tower has just been approved. Others awaiting approval in Leeds include 40-storey Venture Tower, 40-storey City One, 38-storey Monkbridge Forge, and the 47-storey Criterion Place. These will all look spectacular - in contrast to the lego brick buildings we seem to get in Sheffield today. Also the masterplan for Aireside Retail Park redevelopment on Wellington Street in Leeds looks highly attractive. This is the sort of redevelopment Sheffield desperately needs to project a positive image of that city, and as a catalyst for further regeneration. Buildings need to look good. In a few years time people travelling into Leeds City Station or Manchester Piccadilly will be greeted by absolute gems of skyscrapers, whilst at the moment in Sheffield its Park Hall Flats, Dyson House etc, and Dyson House and the building next to it needs replacing with quality. As things stand, Sheffield is a good 10 years behind both Leeds and Manchester, and without a step-up in quality as well as quantity, it'll be 20 years behind before long.

Originally posted by firecracker
I suppose its time for my say on this issue. Sheffield really does need to look at cities like Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle etc, and the developments they're getting there. There are a considerable number of 40-plus storey buildings planned and under construction in these cities - buildings like Manchesters' 48-storey Beetham tower on Deansgate is under construction. The 60-storey Piccadilly Place and 44-storey Crown Building have both been given planning permission, whilst there is the huge Spinningfields development to name but a few. In Leeds, the 32-storey Bridgewater Place is under construction, Globe Road, which includes a 31-storey tower has just been approved. Others awaiting approval in Leeds include 40-storey Venture Tower, 40-storey City One, 38-storey Monkbridge Forge, and the 47-storey Criterion Place. These will all look spectacular - in contrast to the lego brick buildings we seem to get in Sheffield today. Also the masterplan for Aireside Retail Park redevelopment on Wellington Street in Leeds looks highly attractive. This is the sort of redevelopment Sheffield desperately needs to project a positive image of that city, and as a catalyst for further regeneration. Buildings need to look good. In a few years time people travelling into Leeds City Station or Manchester Piccadilly will be greeted by absolute gems of skyscrapers, whilst at the moment in Sheffield its Park Hall Flats, Dyson House etc, and Dyson House and the building next to it needs replacing with quality. As things stand, Sheffield is a good 10 years behind both Leeds and Manchester, and without a step-up in quality as well as quantity, it'll be 20 years behind before long.

Why does Sheffield have to build these type of buildings, is it so we can look like American cities. No thanks I would like to continue with a better thought out city with more interesting skyline not a huge spiraling higher concrete jungle.

Why should we build 30 or 40 floor buildings that in 30 years time will look like the crap that was put up 30 years ago?

And can Sheffield city centre, with it's fairly small area and 'long' rather than 'round' structure actually accomodate these Behemoths of modern architecture?

Redevelopment and regeneration needs to be appropriate for the city involved....there is no 'One size fits all' approach that will take to every place you try it in.

Joe

I am doing a masters dissertation on the Heart of the City regeneration and what role the community played in the plans. You all seem to have lots of intersting things to say about the developments in the Heart of the City but did anyone actually get involved in the consultation process with Sheffield1 and the City Counil in an attempt to voice your concerns? How did you find this process? If you didn't get involved, why not if you feel so strongly? Was it that you didn't know about the meetings or felt you could make no differnce to the plans?

There's going to be a multi-storey block of flats built in the city centre as part of the development next to the peace gardens. I forget exactly how many floors it will have but it will certainly make a bit of a difference to the skyline. You may have your wish for Sheffield to look like Leeds, Manchester etc.

Originally posted by Kei_Kei
There's going to be a multi-storey block of flats built in the city centre as part of the development next to the peace gardens. I forget exactly how many floors it will have but it will certainly make a bit of a difference to the skyline. You may have your wish for Sheffield to look like Leeds, Manchester etc.
I don't think that will propel Sheffield into the Leeds/Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool/Glasgow league. At best it'll be 10 storeys - hardly Manchesters Beetham (48 storeys), Leeds Criterion Place (47 storeys) or Glasgow's Elphinstone Place (39 storeys). Even Cardiff could be getting a 31-storey tower, and Brighton a 40-storey tower.

Originally posted by firecracker
I don't think that will propel Sheffield into the Leeds/Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool/Glasgow league. At best it'll be 10 storeys - hardly Manchesters Beetham (48 storeys), Leeds Criterion Place (47 storeys) or Glasgow's Elphinstone Place (39 storeys). Even Cardiff could be getting a 31-storey tower, and Brighton a 40-storey tower.

If its the tower planned for Arundel Gate (where the wedding cake was) its either 19 or 21 stories, I forget which.

Originally posted by firecracker
I don't think that will propel Sheffield into the Leeds/Manchester/Birmingham/Liverpool/Glasgow league. At best it'll be 10 storeys - hardly Manchesters Beetham (48 storeys), Leeds Criterion Place (47 storeys) or Glasgow's Elphinstone Place (39 storeys). Even Cardiff could be getting a 31-storey tower, and Brighton a 40-storey tower.

OK...tell me. Why should we aspire to have buildings that are tall? Just because other cities have them? That is truly a pathetic reason for planning anything. A sort of architectural urinating contest.

Joe

Originally posted by dinp
If its the tower planned for Arundel Gate (where the wedding cake was) its either 19 or 21 stories, I forget which.
If its 19 or 21, it'll still be too many for some.

Originally posted by firecracker
If its 19 or 21, it'll still be too many for some.

And way to little for others, me included!

Landmark towers like Manchester's Beetham and Criterion Place in Leeds, in my opinion make cities look successful, prosperous, innovative and striking and above all they can look pretty cool when designed right.

Like them or not they help draw investors attention into these cities, something Sheffield is crying out for.

In a couple of years the approach into the centre of Manchester and Leeds will look stunning with the world class architecture they are embracing.

In comparison Sheffield is just going to look like some embarassing poor little relative with a city centre still stuck within the council's 1970s mentality.

There is too much dead wood within Sheffield City Council that needs burning; the incompetence of their planners has scarred this city for decades.

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Landmark towers like Manchester's Beetham and Criterion Place in Leeds, in my opinion make cities look successful, prosperous, innovative and striking and above all they can look pretty cool when designed right.

Like them or not they help draw investors attention into these cities, something Sheffield is crying out for.

Unfortunately, a lot in Sheffield don't seem to want that, or their city to look modern and ambitious. They're content to have their city 30 years behind 'dirty old Leeds with its striking 40 or 50 storey glass skyscrapers and modern and vibrant city centre'.

I know, it's really awful for the technocrats when those who live here don't want to play your games, isn't it?

I think that people in Sheffield are keen for development to take place - but also want to keep those things that make Sheffield the city it is and not just a poor copy of Leeds or Manchester which are cities with their own culture and identity.

Sheffield is a small city; I assume that it must be doing something right by the number of people living here who commute to and from Leeds and Manchester rather than living nearer their jobs. I also assume that the sheer number o folks who stay on here after studying in Sheffield means it has something going for it.

Joe

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
In a couple of years the approach into the centre of Manchester and Leeds will look stunning with the world class architecture they are embracing.


It's strange that most of the critically acclaimed modern architecture does not involve high-rise towers, if by "world class" you mean "tall" you might be right, but if you mean "good design" or "popular" or "beautifull" you might be wrong. I'd rather have The Guggenheim than a boring sky scraper any day.

JoePritchard are you honestly really happy with the way Sheffield looks at the minute, when compared to cities of similiar sizes?

I'm not suggesting Sheffield becomes a carbon copy of Leeds or Manchester, you need to see past that instead of critising other people's opinion's on what they would like to see in Sheffield.

Gateshead & Newcastle has proven that striking architecture can boost a cities image whilst still retaining it's own identity, without super tall structures too.

Doesn't Sheffield deserve world class architecture that it's people can be proud of?

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
JoePritchard are you honestly really happy with the way Sheffield looks at the minute, when compared to cities of similiar sizes?

I'm not suggesting Sheffield becomes a carbon copy of Leeds or Manchester, you need to see past that instead of critising other people's opinion's on what they would like to see in Sheffield.

Gateshead & Newcastle has proven that striking architecture can boost a cities image whilst still retaining it's own identity, without super tall structures too.

Doesn't Sheffield deserve world class architecture that it's people can be proud of?

No, I'm not 100% happy with what we've got - of course I'm not. There's always room for improvement.

But again, why compare with other cities? Why not develop an architecture and style that fits THIS city? Why should we have a world class architecture, when what we actually need is an architecture that is suitable for this city and the people within it?

I'm not an expert on architecture; I just like the idea of for once re-development taking place that fits the city and the people, and that ISN'T driven by a want to be 'world class' or 'striking'. Just appropriate for this city.

If you build a cityscape that is disrespectful to the people within it, they'll bite back. I've spent quite a bit of time in both Leeds and Manchester and they have both got character but whether that comes from the new buildings I'm not sure.

All I'm suggesting is that redevelopment has a human dimension - that it respects what people actually want and doesn't treat the city centre as some sort of large model layout to be tinkered with, ignoring the people who use it, work there or live in it.

This is a good debate - but I really wish that developers would think more about sustainable and appropriate development rather than one off hits to 'get the city moving' or 'bring us in to teh 21st Century'.

There, that's what I'd like to see without being too critical of other people's ideas.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I'm not an expert on architecture; I just like the idea of for once re-development taking place that fits the city and the people, and that ISN'T driven by a want to be 'world class' or 'striking'. Just appropriate for this city.

Ahh, you mean bland and uninspiring - pretty much what we have now then....

Originally posted by dinp
Ahh, you mean bland and uninspiring - pretty much what we have now then....

Yep, in other words any old sh*t will do, it's only Sheffield.:hihi:

Originally posted by dinp
Ahh, you mean bland and uninspiring - pretty much what we have now then....

If people want that, yes.

If people want multi-storey buildings, fine.

What's important though is that there is some thought going in to it and not just 'world class buildings'. But whether something is bland and uninspiring is subjective - I don't get inspired by glass towers.

What's the problem with creating a cityscape that's different from the rest? Or are architects too unimaginative to work away from tall buildings?

And skyfitsboy - again, who defines what's sh*t and what's quality?

I'm genuinely interested in the answers to questions posed earlier - what could be done to create a city centre that respects the people who live and work in it, that provides an environment that is accessible and sustainable over the years to come?

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
Or are architects too unimaginative to work away from tall buildings?

I would imagine that cost is a big factor in designing wide, space-occupying buildings in a city centre.

But, do big buildings bring in the tourists? I know that Kuala Lumpur is world famous for the Petronas Towers, Chicago, Seattle and Tokyo also known for skyscrapers - even New York to a degree.

I'm sure that high on any tourist's list of things to see is the view from these lofty vistas.

Small and tall buildings both can house offices, but taller buildings have that added commercial advantage of tourism.

Originally posted by alchresearch
I would imagine that cost is a big factor in designing wide, space-occupying buildings in a city centre.

But, do big buildings bring in the tourists? I know that Kuala Lumpur is world famous for the Petronas Towers, Chicago, Seattle and Tokyo also known for skyscrapers - even New York to a degree.

I'm sure that high on any tourist's list of things to see is the view from these lofty vistas.

Small and tall buildings both can house offices, but taller buildings have that added commercial advantage of tourism.

You're right with cost of land, of course.

However, in the US (I haven't got the figures for the UK - would be good if someone could post them!!) The cost for a residential block of up to 3 floors is about $90 per square foot of floor area, for 4 to 8 floors $100 per square foot, and above 8 floors estimated at about $120 per square foot. So the cost of building the taller buildings is higher to provide the same usable area.

The tourism argument is an interesting one; not sure how relevant it is to Sheffield.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
The tourism argument is an interesting one; not sure how relevant it is to Sheffield.

Joe

Yes, especially when you take the 'distance' views into account. Any building in the city centre would still fail to look over the surrounding hills.

Originally posted by Tony
Don't kid yourself.

'International Law Firm' DLA is originally a Sheffield firm of solicitors.

The new offices are essentially a call centre. The new ones may also consolidate and provide an exit from the out of date premises in the city centre that are the Fountain Precinct.

Of course, that will leave Fountain Precinct largely empty.

This does not represent new investment or jobs, merely improving the working environment for existing staff whilst leaving existing offices empty at the end of a lease.

Tony, DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary is one of the leading law firms in the World and probably the leading commercial law firm in Sheffield. www.dlapiper.com should give you a lead as to how this firm has grown and what prospects it has to offer in terms of employment. The suggestion of a move to make staff more comfy is a little naive. Fountain Precinct can't accommodate the growth of the firm any longer.

Originally posted by alchresearch
I would imagine that cost is a big factor in designing wide, space-occupying buildings in a city centre.

But, do big buildings bring in the tourists? I know that Kuala Lumpur is world famous for the Petronas Towers, Chicago, Seattle and Tokyo also known for skyscrapers - even New York to a degree.

I'm sure that high on any tourist's list of things to see is the view from these lofty vistas.

Small and tall buildings both can house offices, but taller buildings have that added commercial advantage of tourism.
And there was something about there being a restaurant on the 40th floor of the proposed City One development in Leeds in the Yorkshire Post (or might it have been the Yorkshire Evening Post), just imagine being able to see Sheffield or York from your table in Leeds.

Originally posted by JoePritchard

What's the problem with creating a cityscape that's different from the rest? Or are architects too unimaginative to work away from tall buildings?

And skyfitsboy - again, who defines what's sh*t and what's quality?

Joe

You don't need a degree in architecture to appreciate a great looking piece of architecture, but unfortunately it's ultimately Sheffield City Council who defines the standards we end up with.

Myself and nick2 have already said that architecture doesn't have to be scraping the sky for it to be iconic for a city.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Yes, especially when you take the 'distance' views into account. Any building in the city centre would still fail to look over the surrounding hills.

Surely the distance views into the peaks, over the city centre, and suburbs would only add to the attraction?!

Originally posted by Tony
I was in Leeds yesterday, and there are more cranes on one site than in the whole of Sheffield.


Just noticed your comment Tony and felt I should set ya straight, as Im pretty up on Leeds developments.

There is no site in Leeds that has at least 10 cranes on one site.

Currently there is 23 full tower cranes in Leeds city centre, listed below:

BWP 3 cranes,
1-3 Burley Rd 2 cranes,
Gateway 4 cranes,
Plaza 2 cranes,
George St 1 crane,
Franklin 2 cranes,
St James 4 cranes,
New York St 2 cranes,
Whitehall 1 crane,
City Point 1 crane and
Bridgewater House (Horsfth) 1 crane
__________________

Happy to stand corrected, but to my knowledge Sheffield City Centre had 3 permanent cranes when I wrote that.

St Paul's
Sinclair's
McDonald's

I am a Sheffielder through and through, and I have to say, that the city centre is at last, beginning to look attractive. BUT, its no good having an attractive city if the potential visitor is having problems getting here.
Road transport : At one time there was a central coach station whereas its spread out and its always a difficulty finding which area to go to.
The 'Parkway' connecting road from the motorway is insufficient. Iether its bumper to bumper queueing to get into the city or road works reduce it down to one lane.

The so called integrated transport system is a no no simply because the present privatisation system means that operators will only run 'services' where profit can be made and NOT for the conveniance of the 'punter'.

The rail access to the city is second rate. It has needed electrifying for years now butBritish rail are of the opinion that Sheffield does to attract attention as do, Manchester, Liverpools, Leeds, Birmingham, Nottingham etc.

AND as for the airport, well its such a joke that even the city council are embarrassed even to talk about it.
When it was first opened, it was looked upon as the 'gateway to Europe for business in and around the region and also for people to fly to connection for travel around the world. THEN the greedy landgrabbers stepped in and realised that the land was more viable for industrial development and have been able to aquire the land for £1.oo if the airport is deemed a failure by 2007. WELL, we all know whats going to happen there.

Sooooo, as much as I would like to see Sheffield as a major attraction, I'm afraid we sha for some time to come, be rated as just another second rate town TRYING to keep up with modern times

Great news about the plans for the St Pauls Place residential tower being redesigned and extended from 21 storeys to 31 storeys.

This is great news for Sheffield, finally a city centre proposal over 30 storeys.

It's location on Arundel Gate at the top of Howard Street will make it look much taller than 30 storeys.

St Pauls office block is already peaking into the skyline from the train station and that's only six storeys!

The original City Lofts design was beginning to grow on me, but some of their other deveolpements around the UK look quite cool.

You can see the original design for the tower here (http://www.citylofts.co.uk/images/residential/developments/Sheffield-image.jpg)

See news report's here from Sheffield One (http://www.sheffield1.com/newsDetail.asp?ID=51) and The Star (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1064130)

St Pauls place. You think it couldnt get worse. It has. Its hideous, awful, vile, ugly. Got it yet? I hate it & all that surounding flat pack style instant pop up legoland junk that is the ''hart'' of a suposedly proud city.

Originally posted by Tim42
St Pauls place. You think it couldnt get worse. It has. Its hideous, awful, vile, ugly. Got it yet? I hate it & all that surounding flat pack style instant pop up legoland junk that is the ''hart'' of a suposedly proud city.

No pictures of the new re-designed tower have even been released yet so how on earth can you say that!:loopy: :loopy:

It was in the Star yesterday. Its the same as before but with another 10 slabs of floors. Looks like what it is, cheap & crap. What a waste of an opportunity.

Originally posted by Tim42
It was in the Star yesterday. Its the same as before but with another 10 slabs of floors. Looks like what it is, cheap & crap. What a waste of an opportunity.

It isn't the same design, it is a significantly taller, slimmer and more elegant building being designed to better suit it's environment after complaints about the original design by the Lib Dems and other organisations.

hahahahaha- should've guessed that the first response on this forum would be "bla bla bla its all b*ll*cks" instead of seeing that this is tremendous news for sheffield. The mere fact that it is a proposal over thirty stories sets a new benchmark for height in sheffield and shows that highrise building is becoming more commercially viable in sheffield.

And what a position it would be for a 31 story tower, right on the hill above the train station- it would look absolutley huge!

I'm all for this, as i'm pretty certain that terrence conran designed apartments would sell out in a flash in the city centre and also given the amazing location next to the heart of the city.

Fingers crossed.

The two buildings beeing built next to St Pauls/Peace Gardens are the only two that are remotely nice.
Let's be fair, Sheffield has seen a lot worst buildings beeing build in and around the City Centre recently, Sh*tellium Galleries, Greenhouse, Riverside Exchange...

At least these two are sobre as well as beeing attractive, they might actually NOT go out of style in 40 years as the rest will !
31 levels is very exciting come on !!

Off course if someone would build something typically Sheffield, then it'd be better, but they prolly can't be bother using limestone anymore.

As long as the tower is well made, with some thought going into the design and materials then I'll be happy, if however we end-up with a red-brick and contrete "maximum flats, minimum cost" effort like the ones on West Street I will not be happy.

Originally posted by nick2
As long as the tower is well made, with some thought going into the design and materials then I'll be happy, if however we end-up with a red-brick and contrete "maximum flats, minimum cost" effort like the ones on West Street I will not be happy. The buildings next to the new ones beeing build are made of red brick ...

But Sheff One on dev Green :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag: :gag:

can it really be true?

an artist's impression of the new building on the site of the former wedding cake registry office was featured in yesterday's star. it will be 31 stories, with what looks like quite a textured facade (so no big glass sheet) and, get this, it's slim.

slim and tall. our prayers are answered. Whoop.

from someone who's first in the cue to denounce the bland squat cubes that we're normally granted, I just have to say; well done. Architecture isn't dead after all.

has anyone else seen the plans?

I saw the pic in the star, and I welcome such a tall elegant building, at last a town centre skyscraper, and beating the arts tower from it's 30+ years highest building in sheffield status, 30 years without planning vison.. At last the city has ambition.

i haven't seen the pic, could someone scan it in for us all to see?

Click below:

http://www.citylofts.co.uk/html/residential/Developments/heart_of_city/heartofcity_shefield_index.asp

This was the original proposal (21 storeys). The revised plan is now for another 10 storeys, making it 90 metres high.

Developers are hoping to submit the revised plans later this month according to "The Star".

If the scheme ever gets off the ground the're should be some great views.

Originally posted by tom_common
can it really be true?

an artist's impression of the new building on the site of the former wedding cake registry office was featured in yesterday's star. it will be 31 stories, with what looks like quite a textured facade (so no big glass sheet) and, get this, it's slim.

slim and tall. our prayers are answered. Whoop.

from someone who's first in the cue to denounce the bland squat cubes that we're normally granted, I just have to say; well done. Architecture isn't dead after all.

has anyone else seen the plans?
What will determine if this new and exciting building gets off the ground will depend on demand. Is there demand for the more expensive flats on say the 25th floor upwards - in other words will people be able to pay for them? I hope there is, and that Sheffield becomes markedly more affluent with more better-paid jobs and gets more city centre facilities - and city centre facilities are what cities generally get judged upon by those wanting to live in the city centre. With the likes of Leeds and Manchester, they'll have no problems selling all the flats in 30, 40 or 50-storey skyscrapers - there are more highly-paid jobs there for starters, and plenty of upmarket bars for professionals to drink and socialise in, plus the sort of shops to buy clothing and personal items in.

I hope this gets the go ahead

I haven't seen the picture, but I cannot help wondering what will happen to the poor "greenhouse" (forgotten the proper name for it), surrounded by that new hotel on one side, the old one on the other side and now a whopping great skyscraper! Hope they have a good deal on plants that like a lot of shade!

Just looks like a tall block of flats to me, keep it rectangular and you can cram more flats into the space. To be honest I had hoped for something a little more adventurous.

Originally posted by parcher
I haven't seen the picture, but I cannot help wondering what will happen to the poor "greenhouse" (forgotten the proper name for it), surrounded by that new hotel on one side, the old one on the other side and now a whopping great skyscraper! Hope they have a good deal on plants that like a lot of shade!

I really must urge people to walk around the winter gardens inside and out, the views from the peace gardens and arundel gate are not the only ones!

Originally posted by jazz
hahahahaha- should've guessed that the first response on this forum would be "bla bla bla its all b*ll*cks" instead of seeing that this is tremendous news for sheffield. The mere fact that it is a proposal over thirty stories sets a new benchmark for height in sheffield and shows that highrise building is becoming more commercially viable in sheffield.

And what a position it would be for a 31 story tower, right on the hill above the train station- it would look absolutley huge!

I'm all for this, as i'm pretty certain that terrence conran designed apartments would sell out in a flash in the city centre and also given the amazing location next to the heart of the city.

Fingers crossed.

Completely agree with you jazz. I'm getting fed up with people just slagging off the regeneration and never saying anything good about any parts of it. I know and understand not everything is going to be to everyone's taste - I don't like some of the buildings - but you've got to understand if you want the city revitalised you have to take the rough with the smoothe. I think these flats are going to be an amazing boost to the city, a truely monumental building. To be perfectly honest I say higher! During the past 9 months I've been watching the building of the Beetham Tower in Manchester from my Halls of Residence and that is going to be one truely magnificent building. We need outstanding architecture like this to incourage people and businesses to the city - and with this some decent retail stores might come to the city too - like zara, ted baker, french connection, and a decent sized topman!

People, I appriciate everyone has different views, but please, remember they are trying to improve the city, the city we should all take pride in (even tho compared to other cities its a bit of a dump AT THE MOMENT).

im not really old enough to know all about sheffields steel works history in full, nor will i be able to relate to lives in those times. but i believe that any city that can hold the title of 'the steel city' this long after its demise from its glory, can return to glory, and create many new jobs. As far as i can see there are no set backs with this scheme, many new jobs, a more commonly known city theres plenty of good things to come from this regeneration scheme.

I go past the Millenium gardens every day and quite often wander round the inside - I work on Pinstone Street.

It is a bit of a shame really, knocking Sheffield. We have some truly beautiful buildings (ignore the bit with the ramshackle or modern shops underneath and look up towards the top of the buildings) and the friendliness of the Sheffield people struck me immediately when I moved up here, some 20 years ago. Sheffield is no worse than any other place I have lived. Even London, where I come from, has a nasty habit of taking a beautiful historical building and planking something huge, modern and glass right beside it!

I love the idea of the work being done by Sheffield Station, leading up into the city centre. It would of course be nice if the visitor then found something to see when they got there, of course, other than boarded up shops. Still it has to be better than when I first came here, with the horrible bus station, which led to a weird escalator over the road and that dreadful Roxy building. I will always be thankful though, when I was trying to find my way back to the railway station, for an old gent who not only pointed me in the right direction, but then insisted on taking me there and kept up a running commentary on all the places of interest that we passed.

Its great to see The StPaulsPLace Residential tower being increased in size, but its going to stick out to much. Theres no chance of other buildings of similar heights being built near it in order to form a cluster, the only real way high rises look sensible in cities.

Sheffield City Council think that putting hirises near gateways to the city is the be all and end all of hirise development. If this continues we are going to have the same problems we had when tall buildings were built in the 60s and 70s, big sore thumbs, miles away from each other.

But hey, I suppose you also object to the amazing steel sculpture going near the station as well - am I correct??


Would be nice if the thing 'representing' Sheffield's steel industry and manufacturing prowess wasn't built in Bristol.
The first thing you see when you come out of the station is a steel wall? Nice. It's not art either, it's a functional lump to divide the dual carriageway(no cars on the £25k poster - funny that) from the square.

Therefore less can be spent on buildings.
Therefore the buildings are of lower aesthetic value.


Disagree. The 'eyesores' of the 60s and 70s were not created because no one could afford decent design.
There are obviously cost issues with the quality of materials available, the sophistication of construction (which may make the building more aesthetically pleasing) and the percentage of expenditure given over to 'aesthetic' rather than 'economic' considerations (e.g. the designer might want a nice big atrium but the economics say that it's got to be small so more lettable office space is built) but it does not necessarily follow that more money equals a more aesthetically pleasing building or vice versa.
And there's the old saying 'dress for the job you want, not the job you've got'. This also applies to buildings. Looks like 1 St Pauls Parade wants to house a provincial law firm previously based across the road.

I noticed on the Sheffield 1 web site the St.Paul's development is to have a 500 space car park. Where exactly ? And what happened to the underground car park below the Town Hall extension, - is it still there ?

It's gratifying to learn that the office block has been let, but what of the retail/amenity space ? Pound-stretcher, KFC and McDonalds perhaps ? ;)

With retail on a downward curve it could be very difficult to attract quality retailers, but there should be plenty of scope for a decent café/bistro to replace the pub.

Originally posted by PaulV
But hey, I suppose you also object to the amazing steel sculpture going near the station as well - am I correct??


Er...no

Originally posted by PaulV
But hey, I suppose you also object to the amazing steel sculpture going near the station as well - am I correct?? Very much so.

Eye sore warning !

... and it's not a sculpture, it's a wall thing.

But hey, I suppose you also object to the amazing steel sculpture going near the station as well - am I correct??


I was quoting someone else but forgot about the quote bits.

I know, but I thought I would do be complaining about the steel wall thing

Originally posted by muddycoffee
I saw the pic in the star, and I welcome such a tall elegant building, at last a town centre skyscraper, and beating the arts tower from it's 30+ years highest building in sheffield status, 30 years without planning vison.. At last the city has ambition.
It seems you and many more of us spoke too soon. It seems to have been rejected, and this at a time when Leeds could be getting a 52-storey scraper.

The Furnival Gate Tower has been approved:

THIS towering skyscraper is set to transform the gateway to one of Sheffield's most popular shopping areas.
The sleek, 19-storey, zinc-clad apartment block to be built on the corner of Pinstone Street and Furnival Gate, was yesterday granted planning permission by city councillors.
The lofty development at Nelson House, Furnival Gate, at the top of the Moor will contain 90 "city living" apartments and a range of shops on the ground floor and basement levels.
The site, located just outside the city centre conservation area, is currently occupied by a four-storey, concrete office building.
Created by a firm of Sheffield-based architects Hadfield Cawkwell Davidson, Nelson House is the first development in the council's plan for a new retail quarter close to the Grosvenor House Hotel.
The proposed retail quarter, for which an outline planning application is expected to submitted shortly, is likely to include plans for a 15-storey tower close to the hotel.
Planning officers who recommended the development for approval by the city centre and east planning and highways board, said: "The proposed development is a well designed, highly contemporary 19-storey residential tower which will be visible from all directions.
"It is considered that this gateway site and focal point of activity at the head of the Moor is an appropriate location for a tall building. The development responds to existing and proposed tall buildings in the locality creating a distinctive downtown skyline."
Approval of the tower follows rejection of an even taller one last month. Councillors on the same planning board turned down proposals for the construction of a 32-storey apartment block on the site of the city's former "wedding cake" register office. The 68 metre-high St Paul's apartments designed by Conran & Partners would have seen the creation of 279 apartments in two linked towers.

I hope this gets the ball rolling and the Council approve more high quality high rises, otherwise we'll get left even further behind the likes of Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, and even Nottingham.

But its so bland & ugly. I dont mind it being tall, look at the Chrisler building in New York, its tall & looks good. This looks crap, cheap & ugly. This building rocks.

Don't you just love journalist-speak? A 19 storey building becomes "a towering skyscraper".

Also i notice the language in the article makes out that Sheffeild City counil regard this as part of a 'downtown' skyline - except the area is 20 storeys max and too stumpy. Its nice to have something on the board (altough its not built yet) but the city must do better to compete with other cities.

On the subject of apartment blocks I notice there's an application in to build a four storey block [24 apartments] in Hillsborough on the site of that little factory at the bottom of Walkley Lane, opposite the end of Limbrick Road.

The parking round there is already pretty grim so I'll be surprised if it gets granted.

Originally posted by martk1972

The lofty development at Nelson House, Furnival Gate, at the top of the Moor will contain 90 "city living" apartments and a range of shops on the ground floor and basement levels.


Presumably these 90 devotees of "city living" will want their cars somewhere handy. Perhaps the council could close Pinstone street to traffic and turn it into a resident's car park. :D

And we've just got a rendering of the proposed 52-storey glass tower for Leeds which seems to have been greeted enthusiastically by the LCC planning department on http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=235698&page=3&pp=20. Now thats what I call a skyscraper. And that is what Sheffield finds itself up against.

Originally posted by Greybeard
Presumably these 90 devotees of "city living" will want their cars somewhere handy. Perhaps the council could close Pinstone street to traffic and turn it into a resident's car park. :D

There won't be any parking provided for this scheme!

Originally posted by firecracker
And we've just got a rendering of the proposed 52-storey glass tower for Leeds which seems to have been greeted enthusiastically by the LCC planning department on http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=235698&page=3&pp=20. Now thats what I call a skyscraper. And that is what Sheffield finds itself up against.

Not everyone in Leeds is very impressed judging by the comments on that message board.

Every city is different, I have lived in a few, and although Sheffield is one of the biggest in the UK, it has been hampered by poor planning and a constant redevelopement theme which has hampered it for the last 20years or so by the current council.

Take for example the student games, while i conceed that it was a good initiative at the time, the debt etc has hampered sheffield and sheffielders since.

The decision not to buid a direct route from manchester to sheffield has also alienated sheffield, and benefitted leeds.

I read a thread a while ago, regarding sheffield councils decision not to allow an developent of ikea...complete econonmic madness.

For a city that is awash with talented people attracted to fantastic universities, great parks and lovely genuine people, all Sheffield needs is a council with some sound economic policies.
Providing opportunites for the talented people that live in this city.

Originally posted by nick2
Not everyone in Leeds is very impressed judging by the comments on that message board.
But most of those comments were made before any renderings had been seen, and the gist was of relief that it looked good once the renderings were out. As one poster said "It looks 10 times better than what had been proposed before for that site".

Originally posted by AndrewC
There won't be any parking provided for this scheme!

I'm not really surprised. Only Sheffield's Crazy Council could award planning permission for 90 apartmets in the city centre with no provision for residents parking :P .

Can't see how the developers are going to sell/rent this accomodation in that scenario.

I've lived here for 39 years and right from being a kid I've thought successive councils have tried to improve the city but have never got it quite right - just half-ass attempts of trying to do something on the cheap. Look at the airport, student games and the tram. I like the tram and think it's a good ride but it caused a lot of upheavel and it doesn't really go anywhere.

The one-way system in the city centre is teribble too - travelling 2 miles to travel 300 yards?

I see the latest offing to Sheffield's shopping mecca on Pinstone Street is about to open....wait for it.....
The one stop money shop! and this right down the road from the Heart of the City project,you would think the HOTC project would have a ripple affect thus improving the shops on pinstone street but alas no.

Originally posted by Greybeard
I'm not really surprised. Only Sheffield's Crazy Council could award planning permission for 90 apartmets in the city centre with no provision for residents parking :P .

Can't see how the developers are going to sell/rent this accomodation in that scenario.

Where I live, there is usually a requirement for 1.5 parking spaces per apartment, or thereabouts, seemingly irrespective of location.

Greybeard I'm happy it has zero parking - theres loads of flats in the city centre with parking provision - here is the central location for young professionals without cars who want city centre living.

Originally posted by AndrewC
Greybeard I'm happy it has zero parking - theres loads of flats in the city centre with parking provision - here is the central location for young professionals without cars who want city centre living.

Well it's fine by me too :D

It's just that for 'young professionals' a fashionable motor car is usually an essential accessory to their image and lifestyle. My impression is that most of the people of that type posting here on the forum wouldn't be seen dead on a bus.

Hopefully the developers will at least put a cycle rack in the lobby ;)

I hope this is the right thread to post this.

In the last 18 months I have explored several european cities as a tourist - Amsterdam, Prague, Krakow, Budapest, Barcelona, Nuremburg and Munich.

And as a regular foreign visitor to other countries I come back home and compare Sheffield to them. And it makes me realise how far we have to improve large parts of the city centre. I would say that the new peace gardens looks superb and would be a prized possession of any european city. And fargate doesn't look too bad either with it's nice paving, and european market.

The main problem here which I feel that a foreign visitor would have is the transport. Though we have lots of bus routes and bus stops. How is someone without local knowledge expected to know which bus stop to get off at?

In Prague all the stops have a huge sign with the name of the sign on which can be read as you go past. The ones in sheffield are too small. You can read them when you are waiting at the stop but not if you are passing on a bus unless you are lucky.
The newish district signs, which say welcome to woodseats etc.. are a good move too. Although I think there should be more local information signs for pedestrians, stating the direction and distance to the next district and the city centre.

What would be really good would be message panels on every bus stop stating, in real time the next busses due and the amount of time in minutes and seconds before they arrive. If all busses had a transponder, this would save locals and visitors from waiting for ages at bus stops. If they knew it was a 30 minute wait for the next bus then you have time for a quick drink or to look in some shops.
I have seen some panels being trialed at some of the stops in town but haven't had the chance to see them yet.

I also like the free bus route leaflets which are on most of the busses.

Well it's fine by me too :D

My impression is that most of the people of that type posting here on the forum wouldn't be seen dead on a bus.

I'm a student and you wont catch me on a bus :D