Hello,

I am currently involved in a dispute and bunch of arguments in which a webmaster is known to have read the private messages of members - aparently because they have made personal attacks on his character.

What are peoples thoughts in this? I know I would never read someone private messages being that I understand the term private.
The only way I would break that trust is if I have had a formal complaint of harrassment from another member. Then I feel I would have an obligation to monitor pm's and report any offensive ones to the relevant authorities.

What are other peoples views.

Moon

Private Messages are Private

Nobody should read them except the intended recipient, not even the webmaster

It is probably against the law, although I cant just think which one

x

Do you think that one would be entitled to abuse a person via PM knowing that the receiver couldn't contact the police or the webmaster because PM are private - I don't think so.

However, a webmaster to blantenly allowed her/him self to read PM from the word go isn't right whether its lawful or not.

hmm.

It's certainly not illegal for a webmaster to do this.

But it is duplicitous and patently dishonest to act on the information revealed in users PMs.

But to just read them.... voyeuristic, snooping and pointless. It wouldn't worry me.

I certainly wouldn't use work email to slag off the boss to someone else. If people are concerned with privacy, then they should look at the possibilities of that privacy being compromised.

With PMs in a BBS, I believe the 'private' part (ahem) refers to it not being a 'public' message. It does not guarantee confidentiality or anything like that.

But if the webmaster has been doing what you describe I would still say it was low and reprehensible behaviour.

I'm not sure whether it's illegal or not but I have seen it in some sites terms & conditions mentioning that they can/may read them.

yes I have been told about these disclaimers.

Something to do with handling personal information...I don't know. That is why I put the htread as netiquette as I know the law on this is complicated and difficult to enforce.

I know one of the people involved and he has been told by a number of people that the site owner is doing it. He also had suspicions due to the time lapse of recieving a pm from the site owner after sending particular pm's to people.

He is persuing his own legal leads - I generally wanted to know what people thought on the actual action without the law part.

As a webmaster I certainly feel an obligation to those members of my forum who are here for the right reasons. I would certainly try to help anyone who felt they were being harrassed through mysite or forum.
I also know this particular site owner to have completely dismiss a members concerns over 'cyber stalking' and as a result this person left the site.

Ho hum

Moon

Originally posted by John
Do you think that one would be entitled to abuse a person via PM knowing that the receiver couldn't contact the police or the webmaster because PM are private - I don't think so.

However, a webmaster to blantenly allowed her/him self to read PM from the word go isn't right whether its lawful or not.

I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse

You know that I didnt mean that either party couldnt show their mail to others.

I meant that others shouldnt be secretly reading private messages not intended for them

Originally posted by Moon Maiden


Ho hum

Moon
Can anyone enligten me to what Ho hum actually means?

If the PM system is on the website in question, the webmaster technically owns all content and is free to read it.

However, it simply shouldn't be done. I'm a webmaster and have the facillity to read all PM content, but just would never do such a thing. It sounds to me like the webmaster is abusing his privelidges, but I don't know the full story.

Unless the website said that the private messages were secure and would not be read by anyone, I don't really think it's breaking the law. Controversial, I know... but just to read them surely can't be breaking the law. However, to act on what you've read possibly would be - especially if the "act" was breaking the law in itself (i.e. stalking).

For example - nowhere on this forum does it say private messages can't and won't be read by the site owner. At the end of the day, they're in a database that the site owner could just open and have a flick through. Where would you draw the line? Reading one line? Seeing one by accident? Reading all intentionally?

I think it's down to the webmaster's intent and the reasons for reading them. If the site doesn't have a security statement or privacy policy then forget any of it. As far as I'm concerned, if you enter details on my website, I'll read them unless I tell you otherwise!

Interesting

I am sure I asked for and received confirmation in a thread on this very Forum that our PMs would not be read

I might have a go at finding it sometime

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2155&perpage=15&highlight=private%20read&pagenumber=2


Here you go

Not that it matters particularly, but I thought it worth posting up

Originally posted by Belle
I am sure I asked for and received confirmation in a thread on this very Forum that our PMs would not be readSorry, what I meant was nowhere does it say it in the standard "Terms and Conditions". In this case, Geoff has said that they will not be read - but all users sign up not knowing this is the case, unless they have read that thread.

You can't take it for granted that they won't be read... unless it's explicitly stated.

I think when you sign up - you acknowledge the fact that your whatever information you put up is viewable by just about everyone, and that as you are using the net - the site owners have the capability to see more than what is shown.

However I think people expect their privacy to be secure as anywhere else and not have their own information used against them.
That is what some hackers do isn't it?

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by Moon Maiden
... a webmaster is known to have read the private messages of members... From an ethical (i.e. netiquette) perspective it is unacceptable.

From a legal perspective then, in my opinion, if it is not made explicit in the T&C that messages can be read by a third party then anyone doing so will be in breach of the DP act.

Even if the right is in the T&C a good brief would argue it's legitimacy if users could sign-up without actually seeing the T&C.

However it is a good idea to be careful about what you write in private anyway because it is at risk of being disclosed under subpoena - as with the stories we all remember of emails suggesting that 11 September 2001 was a "good day to bury bad news", "The dodgy dossier", Dr Kelly etc.

It was not a wise move for someone to create the email criticising the webmaster - and even less so to do it on a system to which he has admin access. That's not to say you can't criticise but people don't always understand that whereas it may be legitimate for me to say "In my opinion you are a crook", if I were to say "you are a crook" then I'd better be damn certain of my facts and be able to prove it.

What action to take? Unless you are seriously wealthy forget legal measures but abandon the BBS in question and move your dialogues elsewhere, it's not as if it's difficult to set up a new newsgroup, Yahoo group or BBS if necessary and invite regular correspondents from the other to join.

Be careful you don't make any unproveable accusations which might enable third parties to identify the alleged offender or you'll be the one in trouble. So don't tell us what the group in question is.

Originally posted by Belle
I am sure I asked for and received confirmation in a thread on this very Forum that our PMs would not be read.
You're correct - I've got a lot better (more interesting) things to do than read people's Private Messages. The forum software does not offer an option to read Private Messages, so even if I wanted to, I would have to install a modification (yet again I have better uses of my time ;) ).

The only circumstances where I read PMs is when someone forwards me one due to abusive language etc.

:thumbsup: