I've got some major problems at work and any advice would be very much appreciated.

I get paid every Friday except for last Friday when i found out at 3.30pm that i wouldn't be getting paid. I was told i would be getting paid Saturday morning. I go in Saturday morning still no money, told it will be Monday. That left me running around trying to find some money to pay my phone bill.
I go in Monday and still no sign of any wages,we demand a meeting with the boss but he says he's in a meeting and refuses to see us till the afternoon. When we eventually get to see him he basically gives us a load of BS, saying he's owed money from here and there and when i get it, you'll get it and if you dont like that pack up and leave.
I've been in again today and still no money. I'm starting to think now that i might never get it. :(

I've phoned ACAS up and they told me to write a letter of greivence against him and if he still hasn't paid up after 28 days (wtf!!) i can take him to a tribunal.

Anyone got any advice on what to do?? I don't want to just walk out because i know for a fact i wont see any of that money, but our boss wont shut the firm down. It basically feels like i'm working for nothing and i can't see a way out of it. :(

Sorry about the long post.

Cliff Notes:- A***hole boss wont pay wages,what to do?

You are in a union aren't you? Seek advice from your union without delay.

Your employer may be trading illegally, as he may be insolvent - as it appears he cannot even meet staff wages. Don't work for nothing - demand payment for wages, and refuse to work until paid.

But your union would have told you all this, and got their legal beagles involved on your behalf without delay. It's times like this when you appreciate the help of your union. (You are in a union I hope).

Firstly, not paying your employees is usually a sign of severe financial difficulty for any company and as such I suggest you begin to look for further work elsewhere.

Secondly, even if your employer ultimately ends up insolvent you can claim lost wages / expenses / holiday pay from the National Insurance Fund (after all you've paid NI since you were 16) as defined in legislation.

More advice on the following page: http://www.acas.gov.uk/rights/pay.html#5

I'd be concerned that he is telling you to resign if you are unhappy with not being paid. The last thing you should do in my opinion is resign - you must continue to restate your unhappiness with the situation and if your employer then terminates your employment you have more of a case in an employment tribunal.

But definitely look for other work as of tomorrow and seek legal advice.

Originally posted by redrobbo
(You are in a union I hope).

Unfortunatly not :(

One of the guys has some legal expert coming to see him from the British Legion (he's just got out of the army).

I'm seriously that stressed about this its making me ill :( As soon as i get what i'm owed i'm out of there, but if i leave now i wont get any of it.
I've got some pretty hefty bills to pay over the next week or so and at this moment in time have nothing to pay them with.

I would moan and moan and moan...go and bang on your boss's desk...do what you have to do to get him to cough up. Normally the threat of legal action will make them quiver. It does sound exceedingly dodgy! Let us know what happens!

Jees, good luck Mr Craig. I think in your shoes I would write a letter demanding payment, find a new job (now!) and continue to persue for your back pay.

The problem is that it does sound like the business is going to the wall, and you could wind up further out of pocket by continuing to turn up there. Perhaps you should cut your losses?

It may be an idea to get yourself down to the jobcentre (or one-stop-benefits-shop-thingy). They should be able to advise you on where you stand with 'unpaid work' and any claims yo ucould have. They usually have a cut off date of when you first approach them, so the sooner you do it the better (they don't usually back-date)

This is all just an opinion, it's not based on any specific knowledge :(

Start looking for a job elsewhere. If your employer can't afford to pay you for work done now, there's no guarantee that he'll be able to pay you when you've worked another week (and owes you two weeks' money.)

Sounds like he's in real trouble to me. You could try taking him to a small claims court. Give him a date to pay you by (in writing) then if he doesn't, pursue the matter through the court. You can add on your legal costs as well.

Check with the CAB and see what they tell you.

Thanks for the advice.

I started looking last week for a new job. Problem is there doesn't seem to be happening at the mo,might be time to phone the agencies. :(

I've thought the firms been in trouble for some time, but if you asked my boss if everything was ok he'd just tell you about all the jobs we've got on the order books and all the other jobs he's invoicing.

If i could afford to just walk away and write the money off i would. Just before x-mas last year he had to make a few people redundant. Two bloke took voluntary to help him out and 5 months later they still haven't recived a penny of there redundance money.

I tried the jobcenter this afternoon but they said the best thing to do is to phone ACAS.

I thinks everyone would be happier if he just got the recivers in and then i'd know i would get my money eventually but he doesn't even see this as a option.

What do you do?

Can you set up your own company and approach existing clients?

Originally posted by Strix
What do you do?

Can you set up your own company and approach existing clients?

I'm a plater/welder. Unfortnatly cost of setting up my own place would run into many thousands of pounds and i don't think i'd want the hassle. Just working somewhere that treats its employes right and pays the wages on time is all i want, seem as tho places like that are getting harder to find tho. :(

Could a group of you manage a buy-out?

There's more Plater/Welder jobs in Sheffield on here:
http://www.worktrain.gov.uk/worktrain/SearchResultList.aspx?SessionID=46773b6c-3968-4042-a18e-14befe0372e0&ProcessID=5
than I can conjure up for my line of work :thumbsup:

(Hope link works, the site is a nuisance)

Thanx for the link Strix. The ironic thing is that the firm i work for is advertising on there!!!

As far as the buy out goes i can't see anyone being interested in that. I certainly wouldn't want to do it because it would mean helping my boss out and thats the last thing i want to do at the mo!

My plan for tomorrow is to go and see him as soon as he gets in and basically say i need my money. I'm going to be spending my last £10 on a weekly tram pass tomorrow and after that i'm totally broke. If he tells me that he hasn't got it again i'm going to slot the c***! :o lol

Originally posted by mr craig
If he tells me that he hasn't got it again i'm going to slot the c***! :o lol

I don't think you were serious, but please don't do that; you will make things much worse.

If you are not in a trade union, then you may wish to consider taking professional advice from a solicitor, or at least the CAB.

If your colleagues have been affected, you should all go to see the boss together. Strength in numbers.

if you are really skint then contact all the firms you need to pay and explain the situation they can usually give a 28 day interest free extension on the bills.. also go to the local benefits office and enquire about a crisis loan, this is repayable but interest free and you can get up to £1000 depending on your situation, this is not just for people on benefits

Much as i would love to crack him its the last thing i'll do, i'm not that type of person.

Phoned CAB up today and they gave me a number of a legal advice center to phone, phoned them and they told me to phone ACAS, lol, feels like i'm going round in circles.
Everywhere i phone up asking for advice on what to do points me towards ACAS. The only thing ACAS say i can do is lodge a letter of grievence against him and if after 28 days he aint paid up we can go to court. Thats a hell of a long time to wait for my money. :(

Originally posted by savbaby
if you are really skint then contact all the firms you need to pay and explain the situation they can usually give a 28 day interest free extension on the bills.. also go to the local benefits office and enquire about a crisis loan, this is repayable but interest free and you can get up to £1000 depending on your situation, this is not just for people on benefits

Thanks for info, if things dont get sorted by tomorrow (which doesn't look likely) i'll definatly be doing that.

Originally posted by mr craig
Thanks for info, if things dont get sorted by tomorrow (which doesn't look likely) i'll definatly be doing that.

Just PM'd you.......

I diagree with almost all the advice given in these posts. The employer is probably having a terrible time trying to keep going and thereby keeping everyone in a job. If this emaployee or any of the others can possibly manage it they should be asking what they can do to help even if this means deferring wages. They should decide if they want to keep their jobs with some disruption or whether they want to leave. If the receivers come in then that will be the end of it, they will sell anything that isn't already leased on subject to a charge and pay the creditors with whatever is left. Joining a Union would be pointless and counterproductive since they aren't interested in anything but getting the maximum for their members at that instant in time and this will lead to disaster for the company.

Oh look Mr Craig - your boss has joined :roll:

I cannot believe the selfishness of the above post, given the deceit displayed towards the 'redundant' employees

Originally posted by KenH
I diagree with almost all the advice given in these posts. The employer is probably having a terrible time trying to keep going and thereby keeping everyone in a job. If this emaployee or any of the others can possibly manage it they should be asking what they can do to help even if this means deferring wages. They should decide if they want to keep their jobs with some disruption or whether they want to leave. If the receivers come in then that will be the end of it, they will sell anything that isn't already leased on subject to a charge and pay the creditors with whatever is left. Joining a Union would be pointless and counterproductive since they aren't interested in anything but getting the maximum for their members at that instant in time and this will lead to disaster for the company.
An employer who employs someone to do a job has a duty to pay them for the hours worked. If they were having problems it should have been made clear before the employee worked those hours. This way they had a choice about whether to work or not!

Non Payment of Wages
In many cases it is unlawful for an employer to withhold payment of wages or make deductions from wages without the workers written consent. This protection applies to almost all payments other than advances of wages, expenses, pensions, redundancy payments, and pay in lieu of notice.

What deductions are permitted?

1. Deductions authorised or required by statute i.e. the deduction of income tax and national insurance contributions or the collection of certain payments under a court order.

2. Deductions provided for by a term in the contract of employment

3. Deductions expressly authorised in writing by the employee. Deductions can only be made on this basis where the individual has given their consent prior to the actual deduction being made.

4. Certain deductions in retail employment i.e. for the recovery of cash or stock losses.

5. In some circumstances to recover an overpayment of wages

http://www.andersonssolicitors.co.uk/Information%20Sheets/Employment/Employment%20Law%20-%20Employee/Non_Payment_of_Wages.htm

Originally posted by KenH
I diagree with almost all the advice given in these posts. The employer is probably having a terrible time trying to keep going and thereby keeping everyone in a job. If this emaployee or any of the others can possibly manage it they should be asking what they can do to help even if this means deferring wages. They should decide if they want to keep their jobs with some disruption or whether they want to leave. If the receivers come in then that will be the end of it, they will sell anything that isn't already leased on subject to a charge and pay the creditors with whatever is left. Joining a Union would be pointless and counterproductive since they aren't interested in anything but getting the maximum for their members at that instant in time and this will lead to disaster for the company.

Not to mention constructive dismissal eh?

It seems like the only comments on my post are about "rights". Clearly these rights exist but that doesn't really help anybody in this situation. When things get as bad as they appear to be in this case, then the employer can simply stop and call in the receivers or he can battle on. If he battles on then he may save some or all of the jobs. If he simply stops then everyone can use their rights to claim whatever pickings are left over. The employees get to assert the rights all the way to the dole office. I really would like to think that we are beyond the petty "them and us" mentallity and that workers in this tricky situation could see a bit further ahead.

There are also posts on this subject where people have suggested that the employer may be insolvent or that he was somehow obliged to pay the wages on time. There is no way of knowing if the company is involvent or not based on this information since he could have had many people who were reasonably expected to pay and who all then failed to pay on time. Such a situation would cause these events but would not necessarily be insolvency. A number of bad debts can push the company into insolvency but simply having several debts that are very late can mean there is no cash available but the prospect that it will arive soon means he can keep going. This might mean that everyone gets paid late but they keep their jobs.

Originally posted by KenH
It seems like the only comments on my post are about "rights". Clearly these rights exist but that doesn't really help anybody in this situation. When things get as bad as they appear to be in this case, then the employer can simply stop and call in the receivers or he can battle on. If he battles on then he may save some or all of the jobs. If he simply stops then everyone can use their rights to claim whatever pickings are left over. The employees get to assert the rights all the way to the dole office. I really would like to think that we are beyond the petty "them and us" mentallity and that workers in this tricky situation could see a bit further ahead.

There are also posts on this subject where people have suggested that the employer may be insolvent or that he was somehow obliged to pay the wages on time. There is no way of knowing if the company is involvent or not based on this information since he could have had many people who were reasonably expected to pay and who all then failed to pay on time. Such a situation would cause these events but would not necessarily be insolvency. A number of bad debts can push the company into insolvency but simply having several debts that are very late can mean there is no cash available but the prospect that it will arive soon means he can keep going. This might mean that everyone gets paid late but they keep their jobs.

But are the employees not entitled to get paid on time? Surely if you were an empliyee and your boss came along and said "oh by the way your not getting paid this month" you would just og "oh right ok..no problem" would you? I bet youd kick up a right fuss!

None of that is putting food on Mr Craig's table.

Given that the employer has already welshed out on paying redundancy money to those who volounteered, why would Mr Craig expect to see his wages? (I'm not saying he won't, I just know somebody who was in his shoes before, and got burned - badly)

Originally posted by KenH
It seems like the only comments on my post are about "rights". Clearly these rights exist but that doesn't really help anybody in this situation. When things get as bad as they appear to be in this case, then the employer can simply stop and call in the receivers or he can battle on. If he battles on then he may save some or all of the jobs. If he simply stops then everyone can use their rights to claim whatever pickings are left over. The employees get to assert the rights all the way to the dole office. I really would like to think that we are beyond the petty "them and us" mentallity and that workers in this tricky situation could see a bit further ahead.

There are also posts on this subject where people have suggested that the employer may be insolvent or that he was somehow obliged to pay the wages on time. There is no way of knowing if the company is involvent or not based on this information since he could have had many people who were reasonably expected to pay and who all then failed to pay on time. Such a situation would cause these events but would not necessarily be insolvency. A number of bad debts can push the company into insolvency but simply having several debts that are very late can mean there is no cash available but the prospect that it will arive soon means he can keep going. This might mean that everyone gets paid late but they keep their jobs.

The employee isn't a partner in the business. I'm sure that the considerations you are talking about are not extended to the employee either. Did he recieve a profit share or a salary?
Did it say in his contract that he must consider his employers personal circumstances. Of course not!

employee/employer relationship is a them and us, naturally or there would not be employers just partners with partner benefits.

Originally posted by KenH
It seems like the only comments on my post are about "rights". Clearly these rights exist but that doesn't really help anybody in this situation. When things get as bad as they appear to be in this case, then the employer can simply stop and call in the receivers or he can battle on. If he battles on then he may save some or all of the jobs. If he simply stops then everyone can use their rights to claim whatever pickings are left over. The employees get to assert the rights all the way to the dole office. I really would like to think that we are beyond the petty "them and us" mentallity and that workers in this tricky situation could see a bit further ahead.

There are also posts on this subject where people have suggested that the employer may be insolvent or that he was somehow obliged to pay the wages on time. There is no way of knowing if the company is involvent or not based on this information since he could have had many people who were reasonably expected to pay and who all then failed to pay on time. Such a situation would cause these events but would not necessarily be insolvency. A number of bad debts can push the company into insolvency but simply having several debts that are very late can mean there is no cash available but the prospect that it will arive soon means he can keep going. This might mean that everyone gets paid late but they keep their jobs.

What happens next time the employer decides he can't pay the wages? Is Mr Craig left to wait for his wages again? It seems in this case Mr Craig (hereafter known as the employee) has far more 'rights' than ever the employer does. Whatever happened to good business practice?

Originally posted by JonJParr
What happens next time the employer decides he can't pay the wages? Is Mr Craig left to wait for his wages again? It seems in this case Mr Craig (hereafter known as the employee) has far more 'rights' than ever the employer does. Whatever happened to good business practice?

waste of time and typing energy jonJParr. He's obviously an employer with problems too!!!!!

Firtly I would like to point out that I am not an "employer with problems" as a previous poster has suggested. In fact I don't actually employ anyone and I don't have any problems of this kind. However, I have seen this situation from both side in the past as I have been both an employee and an employer.

Obviously the employee in this case is in a really difficult situation but all of the suggestions are about asserting rights and these rights will only get him as far as the dole queue. It's not a nice situation to be in but this doesn't mean that the empoyer is necessarily in a better position. It may well be, for example, that he has put up his house against an overdraft. It may be that he hasn't had any money for even longer. All that any of the replies to this post seem to be interested in is in looking at things from the point of view of a single individual who is entitled to things. What ever happened to community and looking at other peoples point of view? If this one person makes a fuss and the company closes then how many other people will be out of work? How many of them will get another job? If this comapny is turned around then might it employ even more people and improve the community as a whole.

I have never been in the situation as an employer where I haven't paid wages on time. I have certainly been in the position where I have shared the profits when doing well. But I have been in a position where I have had to get cash out against a credit card to pay the wages one month (having already spent every other line of credit) when several customers just didn't pay all at once. Some people are appaled that I would go to such an extreme but this meant the business survived and later tripled in size employing another 20 people. I was very tempted to just close the doors and pack in at that point and, since my main competitor was in the US it would have meant job losses in the UK and more employement in the US.

Originally posted by KenH
Firtly I would like to point out that I am not an "employer with problems" as a previous poster has suggested. In fact I don't actually employ anyone and I don't have any problems of this kind. However, I have seen this situation from both side in the past as I have been both an employee and an employer.

Obviously the employee in this case is in a really difficult situation but all of the suggestions are about asserting rights and these rights will only get him as far as the dole queue. It's not a nice situation to be in but this doesn't mean that the empoyer is necessarily in a better position. It may well be, for example, that he has put up his house against an overdraft. It may be that he hasn't had any money for even longer. All that any of the replies to this post seem to be interested in is in looking at things from the point of view of a single individual who is entitled to things. What ever happened to community and looking at other peoples point of view? If this one person makes a fuss and the company closes then how many other people will be out of work? How many of them will get another job? If this comapny is turned around then might it employ even more people and improve the community as a whole.

I have never been in the situation as an employer where I haven't paid wages on time. I have certainly been in the position where I have shared the profits when doing well. But I have been in a position where I have had to get cash out against a credit card to pay the wages one month (having already spent every other line of credit) when several customers just didn't pay all at once. Some people are appaled that I would go to such an extreme but this meant the business survived and later tripled in size employing another 20 people. I was very tempted to just close the doors and pack in at that point and, since my main competitor was in the US it would have meant job losses in the UK and more employement in the US.

What about the employer considering the employees needs??? No evidence of that. Has he offered to pay his mortgage, food bills etc. in the mean time or is the employer unable to eat too???
It's quite simple, you do a job, you get paid for it so that you can live. If you are having problems with your business and expect consideration then let the employees know straight away, then they can choose if they want to stick around or find another job that does pay.
By your posts you seem to think that everyone has enough money in the bank to survive without due payment, unless of course you are an employer then this doesn't apply.

No logic.

Mr Craig asked us for advice on his position - not his employers.

I have only suggested he should ask for his wages and find an alternative method of income. :confused:

It'll be interesting to hear what he has to say tonight - after they've all sat the employer down - something the employer should have done with them first.

Roll on the legislation that penalises late payers (the company customers, not the employer ;) )

Firstly KenH, i do kinda understand where your coming from. Problems are tho:-

1) The company has been extremely badly managed since the current owners took over (Nov 04). Bills haven't been paid, they are being taken to court by a couple of firms they owe money too. As i pointed out before redundancy money has not been paid out. They make losses on EVERY job we do. The reason for this is that no one in management has any idea about steel fabrication, when they put prices in for jobs it really is a complete guess.

2) At this moment in time all the guy's on the shop floor what him to call the reciveres in, its the only way we can be certain we'll get our money. My boss truely is one hell of a lier, i'm sure he belives everything he tells us himself. After talking to certain people and looking back a work whats gone out we are 100% certain that the absolute earliest he'll get any money is the end of the month, by then your looking at paying out over 2 grand a bloke. He says he's due 8 grand this week, we know for certain he isn't getting that.

I really, really do hope that that he has put his house up against the firm because nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see that f***** homeless.

As for today developments, he decided not to come in. Apparently he was to busy (i.e hungover and going to play golf). We have requested a meeting with him first thing tomorrow morning, but weather he turns up or not is anyones guess. Mean while bills go unpaid and and people can't afford to feed themselfs and there family, and i'm not joking about that.

Does anyone know how long he can go with out paying us before he has to close the firm down? All the places we've tried haven't really been that much help. The stress is getting worse. :(:(:(:(:(:(

Call up CAB straight away and get some legal advice. Or call a solicitor, you get between half an hour and an hour's free consultation.

I am surprised that your employer hasn't even offered any form of interim payment. If he can't afford the full wages because of cash-flow he should at least be able to pay out part payment to make sure you have some money to eat etc.

It's all very well some people talking about the difficulties the employer is facing but it doesn't sound (from what you have said) as though this employer has a clue what he's doing?!

You say you think the employer has been having difficulties for a while - at a guess i'd say you are probably right and that it is unlikely that this is a one-off cash flow crisis.

Unfortunately for you, ACAS is right, you should have got the letter of grievance drafted and sent to your employer, the sooner you get it done, the sooner you can proceed with further action.

Good Luck :thumbsup:

Any news yet Mr C?

Well after a loooong meeting with his accountant on friday he finally decided to shutt the place down, so now i've no money and no job! Got to go through the whole procedure of getting my money through the DTI. I should get it all put it will take about 8 weeks. :(

I'll be down the jobcenter tomorrow to see what they say. I'm not looking forward to it, i hate that place! I'm hoping i should be able to get a job pretty quickly.

If the firm is Limited you will be able to see his accounts that will give you a fair idea of the state of the workload/orders/payments/bad debts, etc
Regards
Tony