On this forum many members jump down the throat (me included) of posters who state they have/will or are going to breed their animal. Ive never bred any of my pets and had them spayed/neutered asap (neutering makes nicer pets, spaying stops the yucky seasons) ..... However, If i was to buy a new pedegree pup (without breeding clauses) and planned to breed her once, had enough money to ensure her welbeing and researched all the issues surrounding it ......... would forumers still jump down my throat?
I would be an inexperienced breeder, but arnt all breeders when they first start?
Im not talking about breeding mongrels, i mean pedegree pooches/cats

I am not planning to have a new pup .(the dog and cat would be suicidal)....... or to ever breed (couldnt cope with the stress, mess or expense), im just curious as to when members on here think its ok to breed, and when its not

If you were asking the right questions, and wanted to know all about how to manage if things went wrong - you'd have my full support at least

I get sick of being lumped in with the anti-breeding brigade, as I'm anything but!

I breed guinea pigs, not same thing I know but has the same basis

I've considered breeding.
I would only breed if:
My bitch was the right age and I'd had her from a pup - breeding a rescue or a passed on dog doesn't sit right with me at all
Both parents had been health tested and came from lines that complimented each other without inbreeding
My bitch had a fantastic temperament and was an exceptional example of her breed
I knew I could deal with the stress, struggles and financial strain of raising a litter properly
I had homes waiting
I was prepared to take back all the pups at any time and had a contract signed to confirm that this must happen

And, the main reason I didn't in the end - if my bitch could cope with it both physically and psychologically.

There are actually loads more criteria but I'd have a neverending post!
As it turned out my bitch didn't have the right temperament, she wouldn't have coped with mating let alone whelping and raising and I wasn't convinced, despite having done a lot of reading, that I knew enough and had enough strength and patience to raise a litter.

To be honest, breeding has gone totally out of my head now I love training dogs and handling dogs and I'm not so fussed about breeding. I can't say I never would, but right now I wouldn't want to.

I would want to know why you wanted to breed your pedigree puppy and then decide how I felt about it.

I make no secret of the fact that I am very anti breeding, mainly so with dogs and cats....just because there are so many unwanted, and so many badly bred animals.

There is just too much suffering and misery involved with the breeding and subsequent lives of said animals for me to find it acceptable.

I believe that many people breed because of what they feel to be the right reasons, but really the reasons do not stand scrutiny.... I always remember one person saying how wonderful it was to see the look on his wifes face when the kittens were born, I wonder how she would have looked if they had been born dead, or the cat had died giving birth, or the look on her face in several years when the cats were strays, or neglected, or pts unwanted.

I have relented a little in my views of pedigree breeding, but I only feel it is even remotely justified if the dogs are really good examples of the breed, if the relevant health checks are done every time, if the breeder has a waiting list and every puppy has a home to go to, if there is a no breeding clause in the sales, if the breeder has a life long return to breeder policy.

There are far too many "pedigree" puppies that are not to the right standard, and have defects that will cause them and the new owner much misery in the future, these unfortunate puppies are sold cheaply to people who will try and recoup their money by breeding them and producing more problem dogs...and so it goes on, these are the breeders that need stopping IMO

Then there are the conditions that the dogs are kept in and the care of the animals which would have to be right for me to be happy, there is even cruelty involved in mating animals the females are effectively held and raped if they are unwilling to go along with it all, it's a disgrace...well you did ask :hihi:

Here are my thoughts:

I have no problem whatsoever with experienced breeders breeding correct lines and doing there best to improve the breed. Leave it to the professionals the ones that a passionate about the breed and who dont actually make any money because every penny is spent investing back into the breeding.

I do have a problem with back yard breeding to make a buck or just because they have a cute dog, this is not a good enough reason to breed that particular animal, there are hundereds of dogs sat in rescue waiting for homes both crossbreeds and pedigrees, we dont need to breed anymore dogs.

Here are my thoughts:

I have no problem whatsoever with experienced breeders breeding correct lines

All breeders have to start somewhere. Even with the best matched lines, pups can come out wrong, genetics you see

I agree there will always be some pups that have faults even when lines have been researched, but it is far better to research and chose parentage carefully, then to breed two dogs willy nilly without knowing their history, which is what back yard breeding and puppy farming does .

All breeders have to start somewhere. Even with the best matched lines, pups can come out wrong, genetics you see

Breeders do have to start somewhere, but let it be when they have spent time researching the breed and spending time with experienced breeders, so then they can see the pitfalls of breeding as well as the plus points.

I'm merely showing the flip side not arguing

I've bred french and mini lops for about 3 years. I've always had pet rabbits, and decided I'd like to breed and show. However, I went to shows and realised i didn't quite like the "rabbit world." I've always vetted the people who my babies have gone to, and many of them keep in touch with me, and indeed bring them back when they go on holiday. I have a couple who bring their rabbits all the way from york for me to look after when they go away. My rabbits go to their new homes with the promise of a life time of after care and advice. If I don't know something, i will find someone who does, in order to help that person look after my baby properly. I don't consider myself a "back yard breeder." I built a rabbitry and hutches which cost me a fortune. My rabbits get the best care, vet treatment whenever needed, and they've certainly never been used as merely "breeding machines." I've never bred for pet shops, and never more than i can handle. I've decided to give up breeding for now, as I want to concentrate more on my human family and my cats. I will be breeding my maine coon in the future, but again, only on a small time basis and only if I think I can produce quality kittens with her. She is going to be checked by someone "in the know" and if she's not suitable for breeding, she will be spayed and live with me until her dying day. However, if i DO get kittens, my kittens homes will be vetted, and they will be asked to keep in touch with me. I know some people won't approve, but anyone who has met me will know I care deeply for ALL my animals, and would only breed for the right reasons.

I would want to know why you wanted to breed your pedigree puppy and then decide how I felt about it.

There is just too much suffering and misery involved with the breeding and subsequent lives of said animals for me to find it acceptable.

I believe that many people breed because of what they feel to be the right reasons, but really the reasons do not stand scrutiny.... :

what would be acceptable reasons to breed?


Here are my thoughts:

I have no problem whatsoever with experienced breeders breeding correct lines and doing there best to improve the breed. Leave it to the professionals the ones that a passionate about the breed and who dont actually make any money because every penny is spent investing back into the breeding.

I do have a problem with back yard breeding to make a buck or just because they have a cute dog, this is not a good enough reason to breed that particular animal, there are hundereds of dogs sat in rescue waiting for homes both crossbreeds and pedigrees, we dont need to breed anymore dogs.

All 'experienced' breeders started by being 'inexperienced, after all, thats how you gain experience isnt it?

and ....... how do you 'improve' a breed? ....... like the kennel club have? Isnt that where all the trouble started?

P.S. Im not planning on breeding any of my pets, im just interested in your views:)

'Improving the breed' means breeding only healthy specimens of the breed without genetic problems, breeding only dogs with good temperaments and (imo for most breeds) breeding dogs who can fulfill their original job description (in the case of some breeds, this may be against their health in which case I don't believe in it but for most breeds they have to be healthy to be able to do their job.

'Experienced breeder' can have it's pit falls too... does 'experienced' mean they've been doing it for years but never read up on it and actually don't know as much as a new breeder who has studied it for a long time before attempting to breed, or does it mean a breeder who in 10 years has had dozens of litters?

To me I would rather go to an ethical breeder, at least, one I deemed to be ethical in my very high standards. I don't mind going to someone who hasn't done it all that many times before as long as they had someone to help them who did have experience and they'd studied it a lot and knew what they were going into.

i think my signiature says it all for me ,i think the only time breeding should happen is if a breed is in danger , i visit pounds and rescues just about every other day ,i see the little eyes saying take me but i can`t all the rescues are full & finding boarding is getting harder day by day,i still get the lump in my throat, i still get the tears in my eyes oh how i wish i could find places for them all.Sorry little ones i will try to come back for you ! is all i can say

sorry guys , ive gone on but it still hurts everytime

If all breeders thought the same way Lotti, there'd be a lot less poorly dogs around, the law should really be tightened around this area ........ and enforced.

I agree completely pets-at-home

what would be acceptable reasons to breed?


To be honest I find it hard to find many at all, I realise that some people for one reason or another want a certain type/breed of animal so ok, but the ones bred should be healthy, and without defects, so I guess it would have to be for the betterment of the breed... thats the only valid reason that I can think of, and that discounts the majority of breeders I would think.

Personally - I don't see a problem with breeding - but only to breed the dogs that people want as I have said before.

There should be a clamp down on breeding these huge agressive dogs that could pull a house down - unless their temprements were 100% tested. Total clamp down on breeding bull cross breeds - thats not to say that once the staffy crisis stops - there will always be people who want staffy's, cos they are just so fantastic a dog - the tempraments when socialised correctly from puppy hood are just the best ever. (I have to mention here that I am a total mastiff freaky and have 3 mastiff's, and 2 english bulls, so don't think i am biaised. This is my breed and I love them to bits). I just see so many of them ending up in the hands of people who haven't got a clue what they have on the end of the lead - let alone, in the house and allowed on the settee for goodness sake.

I can guarantee that we can find homes for nice small or medium sized dogs - regardless of temprement - and people will have them, even if it bites - which i can't get my head round.

I also don't see a problem with breeding nice mongrels. For goodness sake - they have done us all proud for the last god knows how many years before we were all told that we had to have a 'titled' description for a dog.

People in the south are now begging for the proper commen a garden mongrel. Shaggy coat, waggy tail, heinz 57 - and now coming up north to see if there are any up here. They are sick and tired of the designer perfection forced into the pedigrees that even the rescue centres are full of.

We went round Battersea last year - around the whole of the place - and I think it was about 50% staffy's or staffy crosses, 20% cross breeds and 30% pedigrees in there.

So - re breeding - breed what the market and the people dictate - if there truly is no demand for what you are breeding - you are only breeding for your own satisfaction or ego - regardless of the type of pet.

Just 1 thing to add - I wish there could be a total stop on all breeding for at least 1 year - lets try to get the dumping and the rescue sorted out - and no more dogs killed just because there aren't enough homes around - and then look at the situation. Now there's e utopia.

Just 1 thing to add - I wish there could be a total stop on all breeding for at least 1 year - lets try to get the dumping and the rescue sorted out - and no more dogs killed just because there aren't enough homes around - and then look at the situation. Now there's e utopia.

I think that this is one of the things that has made me so anti breeding, the amount of nice dogs and cats in rescues and advertised everywhere needing a home has began to hurt me a lot, the more that you know the more it hurts.
If there were not so many unwanted animals then yes the breeding of healthy animals that would be wanted and lead good lives would be wonderful.

I have only owned one pedigree animal before now.
I want to state that he chose to live with me and I didn't buy him.

He was a Persian cat. In my opinion pedigree cat breeders should be forced to live with the ailments they inflict on these animals in order to make them look more human.
By this I mean the forward facing eyes, the short nose, the jutting jaw, the flattened cheeks to be frank I find it sick! The cat found it made him sick. He suffered severe respiratory difficulties for his entire life. He was bred to be a champion.
I can't understand what the fascination is with breeding an animal that nature would not allow to live or evolve on it's own.

I would never line the pockets of someone that wants to make money out of "perfecting" another lifeform.
I would hand over cash to give a good natured Mutt or moggy a good home, if I was in the position to however, as somehow I find them more natural.

Oh come on, the people on here are very condascending and patronising to people wether it is pedigree cats moggies dogs whatever.
Working in rescue makes some people short sighted, they witness horrible things and thats awful I have done it and do not wish it on anyone, but sensible people starting out need help and support. Not every breed of dog or cat has a rescue problem, there are even some vulnerable breeds that are desperate for people to join their numbers.

There was a woman on here the other day trying to find homes for three kittens that she had taken off someone irresponsible to help the kittens and from the replies she got I doubt she will ever come on again.

Oh come on, the people on here are very condascending and patronising to people wether it is pedigree cats moggies dogs whatever.
Working in rescue makes some people short sighted, they witness horrible things and thats awful I have done it and do not wish it on anyone, but sensible people starting out need help and support. Not every breed of dog or cat has a rescue problem, there are even some vulnerable breeds that are desperate for people to join their numbers.

There was a woman on here the other day trying to find homes for three kittens that she had taken off someone irresponsible to help the kittens and from the replies she got I doubt she will ever come on again.

I don't think that anyone is being patronising or condescending here, the OP merely asked for opinions on when people thought breeding an animal to be ok, I think that people have responded to that sensibly, if an opinion is asked for then it will be given that seems reasonable to me!

I think Shihtzumad's poem from the other day says it all. A proper breeder doesn't just invest time and money, they also invest their hearts in what they do. I have seen the sacrifices that good breeders will make for their animals.

I whole heartedly agree that 'accidental' or ameteur breeding is a bad idea and think that if you have a dog as a pet you should neuter/spey them. However, I have no problem what so ever with experienced/well prepared breeders.

I don't think that anyone is being patronising or condescending here, the OP merely asked for opinions on when people thought breeding an animal to be ok, I think that people have responded to that sensibly, if an opinion is asked for then it will be given that seems reasonable to me!

Nods. I know we sit on different sides on the fence on this one but I welcome a open and fair debated thread on the subject.

I think Shihtzumad's poem from the other day says it all. A proper breeder doesn't just invest time and money, they also invest their hearts in what they do. I have seen the sacrifices that good breeders will make for their animals.

I whole heartedly agree that 'accidental' or ameteur breeding is a bad idea and think that if you have a dog as a pet you should neuter/spey them. However, I have no problem what so ever with experienced/well prepared breeders.

my view too- I object to back street breeders and puppy farmers and the folk who think it would be nice to have puppies from their bitch just because she's cute. Regrettably, accidents do happen (someone tells you the animal you got from them has been spayed or neutered but then it gets pregnant or impregnates another - what can you do? My experience with Ashia - well, having lost one wegie under anasthethic I just wasnt willing to risk losing Ash - she's a housecat- we adopted a rescue and took him to be castrated only to find he'd managed to get to her within hours of being brought home. As it happens, we found wonderful homes for 2 kittens (and no, we did not charge for them and we kept them until they were 13 weeks old) and we kept Arnie, our baby purrminator - but no, we never set out to be breeders and wont be doing it again - we leave it to the people who are doing their bit to improve the breeds. having said that, we are not novice pet owners.

what would be acceptable reasons to breed?




All 'experienced' breeders started by being 'inexperienced, after all, thats how you gain experience isnt it?

and ....... how do you 'improve' a breed? ....... like the kennel club have? Isnt that where all the trouble started?

P.S. Im not planning on breeding any of my pets, im just interested in your views:)

Lotti answered that for me. Improving the breed means (or should mean) that hereditary problems are avoided and the dogs are healthy lines. The breeders on the programme were not improving the breed, in fact they were shown to be actively breeding unhealthy dogs, as was the case of the Cavalier King Charles breeder.

There are many responsible breeders out there who do carefully select the dogs, the programme showed that there are many that dont. By "responsible "I refer the to the former.