I just read this story ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/09/nmary09.xml ) and found it truly horrific. It makes me sick that people can do this type of thing. If the police catch them, throw away the key.

Originally posted by t020
I just read this story ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/09/nmary09.xml ) and found it truly horrific. It makes me sick that people can do this type of thing. If the police catch them, throw away the key.

Or forget the key, a noose from a nearby lampost will do quite as nicely for me.

An eye for an eye and all that....

What must the poor kids family be going through tonight as we sit on here discussing this.. I shudder to think.

But I know what I'd like to do to the gang...

I quite like the idea of an oversized Magimix for the punishment of these crimes.

Burning at the stake would do though, upside down of course :P

Totally and utterly sickening. I can't put into words how sickened I am by this. They were 16 year old girls for God's sake!

Burning at the stake... hell yeah!
And get the kids family to light the fire.. thats what I call retribution

RIP though for the young lass thats cruelly lost her life.

It really does sicken me about our beloved country when stuff happens like this.

I'm sure we're going to hear alot more about this in due course. There are too many bits missing. Unless it gets the same blackout as the Jamie Bulger case - which seems probable, given how gruesome it all is

Jamie Bulger- now there is a case straight away there for them 2 young thugs and murderers to get an ass kicking straight down to hell.

I agreed and rightly applauded Jamie's grandfather/uncle when he called in to GM:TV or whatever morning show it was at the time to tell them that the family and him would kill the 2 kids responsible for Jamies death.

And whats happened since- the 2 have been released with different identities, just like Maxine Carr.

It really does sicken me.

I'd love to know where the 2 have dissapeared too now and I'd love to know if anyone has found out who they are.

Ahhh, that's an entirely different kettle of fish though.

Loads of kids find something naughty to do, then find out they're out of their depth and have no way of getting out of the trouble they have caused.

That isn't to say I have an opinion on how they should be dealt with or otherwise. There are far more bits to that story too, that the whole nation wasn't party to..

And before anybody gets really emotive about the Bulger case, it happened at my local shopping centre, opposite the library my mum worked in.

Don't forget, there's real people reading these pages

It is disgusting and appalling, what were two young females doing out at time in the morning, and how come it is males attacking them, should males have a curfew to stop these attacks?

Originally posted by LindaC
It is disgusting and appalling, what were two young females doing out at time in the morning, and how come it is males attacking them, should males have a curfew to stop these attacks?

They were actually out til 11pm and were then from what i have read Abducted from that time onwards. As terrible as it is that men have been responsible for this attack you cannot expect to impose a curfew on the whole male population. It seems nowadays that females are also sometimes involved in these kind of attacks and I do remember cases where girls have egged on attacks of this nature.

My eldest Daughter is 17 in July and now goes out at evening with her friends and boyfriend and I worry until she is in. Especially when she had her mobile phone stolen.

I can't settle until she is home safe but you do have to allow your kids their freedom and yes sometimes a terrible price is paid but what is the alternative, we can't lock them in their rooms! They would just run away into more danger.

It is a fantastic feeling being a parent but also a terrible burden of worry.

Sadly, this is the face of Britain in 2005.

Even more sad is the fact that without a political change of direction the rot will continue to spread.

Originally posted by LindaC
It is disgusting and appalling, what were two young females doing out at time in the morning, and how come it is males attacking them, should males have a curfew to stop these attacks?

Please tell me you're being sarcastic with this comment....

Originally posted by Mo
Sadly, this is the face of Britain in 2005.

Even more sad is the fact that without a political change of direction the rot will continue to spread.

Very true there, Mo.

As a side note, I am surprised that Guardian readers haven't complained that if the police catch them, throw away the key should not be carried through as it is against their human rights - ;) :P

Alex :)

This kind of thing sickens me to my stomach.

My only question is how long are we going to carry on putting up with this before some more extreme measures are going to be taken. Its about time corporal punishment is brought back and the use of hard labour for lesser crimes.

I wonder how long it will be before we see vigilante justice I think its enevitable, unless the law is seen to punish these people and at the minute. I dont think a life in prison is a punishment for people wo do these types of crimes.

Originally posted by soupy
This kind of thing sickens me to my stomach.

My only question is how long are we going to carry on putting up with this before some more extreme measures are going to be taken. Its about time corporal punishment is brought back and the use of hard labour for lesser crimes.

I wonder how long it will be before we see vigilante justice I think its enevitable, unless the law is seen to punish these people and at the minute. I dont think a life in prison is a punishment for people wo do these types of crimes.

there is no evidence to suggest that corporal punishment would be a more effective deterant and plenty to suggest that it would be no more effective than current penalties.
There is also currently no way to resurrect the people inevitibly murdered by the state due to wrongful conviction.

I think that cases like this merit the death penalty. Analysis of the behaviour of these [probably personality- disordered individuals] would doubtless make for interesting academic reading, but it is a waste of time, effort, and resources to 'treat' the offenders in our special hospitals. Cases involving children are different, and should be viewed differently. Hang them.

I noticed this on the page T020 gave:

"We are still trying to piece together exactly what happened. However, we know that the two girls met a friend at the Wallingford Arms public house in Reading between 10 and 11pm on Friday night."

Why is nothing being done to prevent 16 year old kids going into pubs and clubs?

Originally posted by alchresearch


Why is nothing being done to prevent 16 year old kids going into pubs and clubs?

The Wallingford Arms closed last year.

The girls were in a car on the car park of the disused pub between 10 & 11 before going off in the other car.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Why is nothing being done to prevent 16 year old kids going into pubs and clubs?

The authorities are trying to (aren't they Kirky?) It's the fact that 'society' thinks it's okay.

Kids don't get to be kids anymore. They are pressured into adulthood all too quickly by the aspiration to be 'grown up' without having the maturity to deal with the dangers that are an inherent part of adult life.

An 18 year old is more likely to have had the sense not to wind up in the car with them.

Another poster here has commented on their age as though this should render them somehow immune to danger. I am flabbergasted.

How do six men collude to do something as terrible as this? It's not something you talk about in the pub. Surely the risk of one being shocked and disgusted with the idea and going to the police is huge. I hope they catch them soon and throw away the key:mad:

HOW DO PEOPLE CONTEMPLATE DOING THAT AND THEN LIVE WITH THEMSELVES AFTER!

NEED HANGING THE LOT OF THEM!!!!!:rant:

Originally posted by Cyclone
there is no evidence to suggest that corporal punishment would be a more effective deterant and plenty to suggest that it would be no more effective than current penalties.


Maybe not, but there'd be one less piece of &^%& around;).



Originally posted by Cyclone
There is also currently no way to resurrect the people inevitibly murdered by the state due to wrongful conviction.


Casualties of war:o;).

Breaking News from Sky news:

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13344773,00.html (http://)

Originally posted by Ally68
Breaking News from Sky news: http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13344773,00.html
Dunno what happened to that link :confused:
My version works though :thumbsup:

Can't get mine to work, don't know what I'm doing wrong

Originally posted by sccsux
Maybe not, but there'd be one less piece of &^%& around;).






Casualties of war:o;).

unacceptable in a civilised society.

We can lock them up, if a mistake is made people can be released and compensated, they cannot be brought back to life, that state sanctioned murder is just as wrong as any other.

From the comments on here you'd think that 16 year olds trying to find a pub that will serve them was either a rare or a modern occurence, it's neither.

Originally posted by Cyclone
From the comments on here you'd think that 16 year olds trying to find a pub that will serve them was either a rare or a modern occurence, it's neither.
Yeah, that was what I was complaining about.

Originally posted by Cyclone
unacceptable in a civilised society.


What's so civilised about today's society though;)?

Are we wandering off topic? :suspect:

I'm sure there are general threads for the discussion on hanging/drawing/quartering people and it's merits/shortcomings

Reading is my home town so hearing this story break over the weekend saddened me greatly - and as more details have emerged today it only gets worse. I think its irrelevant what she and her friend were doing/whether she had 'fallen in with the wrong crowd' etc., nobody deserves to be subjected to torture and then murdered. I just hope that the other girl manages to keep her anonymity and remains safe.

didnt tony blair say he had learnt his lesson and was now prepared to listen to the people more? then he should listen and look at forums such as ours ,the general feeling of disgust creates the hatred that wants a person to hang a criminal.

but if blair were to ensure murdering scum such as the ones involved with this case were NEVER to be allowed out of prison then people would have more faith in the justice system

no soft prisons any more,every day should be a solid hard working day earning their keep,12 hours every day of the week,sod their civil rights,as far as im concerned they gave them up when they made the decision to kill this young girl.

Originally posted by ANGELUS
Burning at the stake... hell yeah!
And get the kids family to light the fire.. thats what I call retribution

RIP though for the young lass thats cruelly lost her life.

It really does sicken me about our beloved country when stuff happens like this.

so your sickened (like us all) by this, yet you seem very keen to implement highly sadistic punishments on the perpetrators.

Originally posted by nightrider
so your sickened (like us all) by this, yet you seem very keen to implement highly sadistic punishments on the perpetrators.

I would have to agree with Angelus on this one. They need castrating with a blunt spoon and then left in a pit for the families of the victims to do as they please.

Bunch of sick b*****ds.

Originally posted by Lestat
I would have to agree with Angelus on this one. They need castrating with a blunt spoon and then left in a pit for the families of the victims to do as they please.

Bunch of sick b*****ds.

To actually want to do the above is inherently sick. Just as sick as the people who assaulted the girl.

Originally posted by nightrider
To actually want to do the above is inherently sick. Just as sick as the people who assaulted the girl.

So what do you suggest happens to these torturing child murderers:?:

Originally posted by Bobbit
So what do you suggest happens to these torturing child murderers:?:

lock them up and dont let them out until they have reformed (which there is a good chance wont happen with people so sick, but thats their problem).

Hatter has posed a very interesting question regarding how a group of people 'colludes' towards doing something so astonishingly cruel.

I think this is the part of this terrible happening that creeps me out the most. There has always been nasty, maybe ill, individuals who have ended up carrying out their derranged fantacies. I can (sort of) see how these crimes end up being carried out - I guess there are often no signs to say that they are going to do anything untoward, and by the time the crime is committed, it's too late.

But what happened here (and in other cases where there has been a group of people responsible)? Did someone say 'Hey, I'll tell you what, let's kidnap a couple of girls, torture them for a few hours and then finish them off. Go on, it'll be a good night out'!

And what did the others say - 'OK then, sounds like a plan'.

The dynamics of it all are so terrifying. I suppose that there were a couple of ring leaders and the rest were either frightened of losing face or just frightened full stop.

However it happened, they clearly had no fear whatsoever of being caught - how arrogant! That in itself is just hideous. Seems like they thought they could just blatently do whatever they wanted.

I'm sure the people involved will be caught - since when did people like this not spill the beans to save their own skins? I wonder how much remorse will be felt though - if you're that morally bankrupt to be able to do this in the first place, it seems unlikely....

Yes, one person you can put down to being a nutter, two "an evil duo" but it does make you wonder how a group of six men all seem happy to go along with a crime of this nature, like a pack of hyenas.

Mind you, is that how it started with the SS in the concentration camps? Some people would say that was different, it was war time. My point is, how / why do small groups of people (and unfortunately it's usually men), get on the "bandwagon" of torture and depravity?

Originally posted by Cyclone
unacceptable in a civilised society.

Do there actions resemble anything close to civilised society?


We can lock them up, if a mistake is made people can be released and compensated, they cannot be brought back to life, that state sanctioned murder is just as wrong as any other.


With todays forensic evidence especially DNA we can be sure that people did the crime. In these cases execution is a just reward, if it was upto me I would let the victims relations decide the punishment this is done in other countries.

From the comments on here you'd think that 16 year olds trying to find a pub that will serve them was either a rare or a modern occurence, it's neither.

I must admit I started probing pubs for slack bar staff and landlords at 14 and found plenty that would serve me especially in town.

Originally posted by soupy
Do there actions resemble anything close to civilised society?




With todays forensic evidence especially DNA we can be sure that people did the crime. In these cases execution is a just reward, if it was upto me I would let the victims relations decide the punishment this is done in other countries.



I must admit I started probing pubs for slack bar staff and landlords at 14 and found plenty that would serve me especially in town.

they may not resemble it, but I don't want to lower myself to their level, do you?
There is no such thing as sure. DNA evidence has been used before and a conviction later overturned as unsafe. Too late if the wrongly convicted person is already worm food.

It is very disturbing, and I can't imagine how a group of people could do this, but behaving at their level does nothing but prove that we are no better than they are.
And it DOES NOT serve as a deterrant. Most criminals convince themselves that they will not be caught, so the punishment, no matter how horrific will not have an effect as a deterrant.
The murder rate in the UK did not suddenly shoot up after the death penalty was abolished, and in the US they didn't drop when a state reintroduced them.

im confused, people who post that hanging,mutilation etc.of child murderers are called sick, yet when labour release irish terrorists,spend millions on new identities for the bulger murderers,go to a war that the people didnt want,then they are called rational and civilised, :confused:

Originally posted by depoix
im confused, people who post that hanging,mutilation etc.of child murderers are called sick, yet when labour release irish terrorists,spend millions on new identities for the bulger murderers,go to a war that the people didnt want,then they are called rational and civilised, :confused:

It's called the rule of law. If you dont like it, get 500 quid together and stand for Parliament.

Originally posted by depoix
go to a war that the people didnt want

Have you asked ALL the people in the UK? 1 million marching in London is not "the people". Hunt supporters can claim "the people" want to keep fox hunting cos a few hundred thousand of them marched in London. Who gets the most people waving placards is not a basis for policy change... :rolleyes:
Most people care more about their wage packets, their kids education and their health care than whether removing a dictator from power was "legal" or not...

Don't sit ranting on a message board. Get up and get out and do something about it...

Originally posted by gremlin_mick
It's called the rule of law. If you dont like it, get 500 quid together and stand for Parliament.



Have you asked ALL the people in the UK? 1 million marching in London is not "the people". Hunt supporters can claim "the people" want to keep fox hunting cos a few hundred thousand of them marched in London. Who gets the most people waving placards is not a basis for policy change... :rolleyes:
Most people care more about their wage packets, their kids education and their health care than whether removing a dictator from power was "legal" or not...

Don't sit ranting on a message board. Get up and get out and do something about it... i did once,i joined the army to serve my country,looking at the country today i think i wasted my time,what did you say you do to help out?

Originally posted by depoix
im confused, people who post that hanging,mutilation etc.of child murderers are called sick, yet when labour release irish terrorists,spend millions on new identities for the bulger murderers,go to a war that the people didnt want,then they are called rational and civilised, :confused:

Well I didnt call the goverment rational and civilised. I only said people who want to sadistically torture other people are sick. So thats that cleared up then.Nothing to be confused about.

There was a third girl in the car??

And six blokes? :suspect:

Am i alone in thinking that crimes of this nature (this being a hopefully one off?), Could lead to a "Vigilante" culture ?. The courts seem to be so out of touch with real world. Miscarriages of justice can be sorted, But, we seem to pander to criminals. Miss a parking ticket & they're on your case!. Wrong priorities me thinks.:suspect:

Originally posted by DJI66
Am i alone in thinking that crimes of this nature (this being a hopefully one off?), Could lead to a "Vigilante" culture ?. The courts seem to be so out of touch with real world. Miscarriages of justice can be sorted, But, we seem to pander to criminals. Miss a parking ticket & they're on your case!. Wrong priorities me thinks.:suspect:

how are 'courts' out of touch on cases like this? If caught and convicted these people will serve long sentences in jail, doesn't sound like a 'soft touch' to me.

Originally posted by Cyclone
how are 'courts' out of touch on cases like this? If caught and convicted these people will serve long sentences in jail, doesn't sound like a 'soft touch' to me.

This case is a classic example where a life sentence must mean just that.

This crime will undoubtedly be "gang" related. Sadly, the police are too scared to do anything about it because the gang culture has been, in particular, embraced by kids from ethnic minority groups. The sooner we get a higher proportion of police from minority ethnic backgrounds the better. That way we can start harassing the hell out of these gangs without the constant threat that the race card will be played.

Originally posted by Cyclone
how are 'courts' out of touch on cases like this? If caught and convicted these people will serve long sentences in jail, doesn't sound like a 'soft touch' to me.

The same courts that sent Linda Walker down?. Not out of touch? Ask a judge how much a pint of milk is?.

Originally posted by Cyclone
how are 'courts' out of touch on cases like this? If caught and convicted these people will serve long sentences in jail, doesn't sound like a 'soft touch' to me.

But jails are cushy places now. The meaning of 'hard labour' disappeared many years ago. So, although they won't be causing a danger on the streets, they'll certainly not lose home comforts.

Originally posted by alchresearch
But jails are cushy places now. The meaning of 'hard labour' disappeared many years ago. So, although they won't be causing a danger on the streets, they'll certainly not lose home comforts.

yes, all the reports on jails recently haven't mentioned overcrowding, victoria conditions, unsanitary conditions, and the like, they've all been full of comments of plasma tv's and state of the art gyms...

Wups, sorry, I got reports mixed up with the Sun.