Try to watch The Secret Policeman tonight at 9pm BBC1.

Saw a trailer and it looked really interesting. About a journalist who went under cover to train as a police officer and he unearthed some pretty scary attitudes to the ethnic minorities in our society.

I feel that it might provoke an interesting discussion on here.

Footage for the programme includes one officer dressing up in an improvised Ku Klux Klan hood. Reporter Mark Daly faces criminal charges over his move to infiltrate recruits as part of the work to assess whether institutional racism still exists within police ranks. GMP has confirmed it suspended three officers after senior officers viewed footage from The Secret Policeman programme.(source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3209606.stm))

I'll be watching for sure... sounds very interesting/shocking.

Kinda destroys everything I was saying that the police have come a long way in removing racism in the force.

If this is indeed true I will be most appaled at the acceptance of such behaviour in todays police service.

The British police have a VERY GOOD reputation in the world for professionalism and service to the public.

This may just destroy that dogma once and for all. I'll make my opinion after the programme.

Can't wait to watch the show.

Its just a journalist playing the police at there own game, they have secret investigations to solve crime, why can't we do the same on them.
Although he faces criminal prosicution he should be awarded for showing the police in there true light.

Originally posted by Geoff
Footage for the programme includes one officer dressing up in an improvised Ku Klux Klan hood. Reporter Mark Daly faces criminal charges over his move to infiltrate recruits as part of the work to assess whether institutional racism still exists within police ranks. GMP has confirmed it suspended three officers after senior officers viewed footage from The Secret Policeman programme. (source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3209606.stm))



Leftwingers may prefer to read the article on the Guardian website (http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1067504,00.html) instead ;)

They have an interview with him too.

Originally posted by Abby
Leftwingers may prefer to read the article on the Guardian website (http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,11374,1067504,00.html) instead ;)

They have an interview with him too.
Why leftwingers only? Are you afraid that someone who is not leftwing may read something there that may upset them?

When we see these individual policemen tonight I suspect that for racism we could equally substitute sexism and homophobia as well. I don't suppose it's a barrel of laughts in the police service as a woman and or gay officer.

Originally posted by max
Why leftwingers only? Are you afraid that someone who is not leftwing may read something there that may upset them?

Well yes actually.

They may find things like truth, facts, informed opinions and liberal writers.

I'm sure you can see how bloodthirsty rightwingers would be upset.

Originally posted by Abby
Well yes actually.

They may find things like truth, facts, informed opinions and liberal writers.

I'm sure you can see how bloodthirsty rightwingers would be upset.
How on earth do you expect them to read anything let alone absord it with their hands shaking, the spittle dripping from their lips and the red mist of denial forming over their eyes?

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May I join what I suspect will be a host of Forum members in thanking Spook for not being vile and corrupt like those half a dozen Police Officers we have watched tonight. I hope he will quickly shop the very few that he comes across.

I am heartened that he (Mark?) only found six seriously bad ones out of hundreds of decent people, but sorry that until only yesterday, those six were happily kicking excrement in the face of all those people who believe in law and order. All those people that think that for instance bobbies on the beat is a good thing and that if only more police were engaged in crime detection and reduction all would be well in the world. That all coppers are naturally good.

From now on, I hope that people will think "More police is a great idea but please can we suss them out first, as individuals, so that we know that they are stopping your actual criminals rather than someone with a black or brown face"

I wasnt shocked, I have seen it from personal experience in a few limited number of cases myself, but I was horrified that despite the very best efforts of the Greater Manchester Police (or whichever), they were not able to detect these six officers and get them chucked out and blacklisted.

I reckon the ONLY way to catch the rotten apples is through covert activities and I take my hat off (not of course a helmet) to the guy from the BBC who has I am quite sure put his own life on the line for doing this.

I happen to support the police by and large, although I know most people will find that hard to believe, I have even been quite close to a few in my time. But I also know that it only takes one or two corrupt Officers with a penchant for arresting and harassing a few people in an ethnic minority grouping, to poison the views of huge numbers of those communities AND their supporters.

I remember an ancient Not the Nine O'Clock News sketch where Rowan Atkinson as the Sergeant, questioned the arrest of someone for weating a loud tie in a built up area and for being in possession of thick lips.

It is at times like this when you wonder if enough advances have been made.

Personally I reserve my most scoriating (first time use of the word, wonder if I got it right) for the Tutor who giggled and smirked when the Asian Officer wasnt coming back and told his group that he had explicitly been told NOT to smile so that they didnt think he was racist, but DID IT ANYWAY

Outraged of "not Sheffield"

I saw some of it and was disgusted at some of the things I heard. They were yobs though, so what can you expect really? I believe at one time the police were looked up to and respected as they believed in justice and enforcing the law, but now they're just a bunch of yobs that dropped out of school and needed a job.

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Originally posted by spook1210
or a law graduate to20 from sheffield university

Like I said, I only saw SOME of it, but from what I saw they were yobbish skin heads.

I didn't see it but heard an interview on Radio 4 this morning with a senior officer from the GM police force. He too was shocked at the behaviour of a few officers but he did point out that it was only 4%, or so, of the total intake and that was probably a true reflection of British society.

Scary thought.

The programme maker did say that the majority of officers from what he saw were not racist.

But still the officer who gave the asian family a £200 fine 6 fixed points then £50 on top for no tax AND made em walk back to the holiday camp. OK they were breaking the law, but still he was laughing about it. Terrible!

I still have faith that the majority of police officers are good people, who do a difficult job under stressfull conditions and is mostly thankless.... but are still not racists.

I just hope that the officers are dealt with and sacked!

Originally posted by DaBouncer
The programme maker did say that the majority of officers from what he saw were not racist.

But still the officer who gave the asian family a £200 fine 6 fixed points then £50 on top for no tax AND made em walk back to the holiday camp. OK they were breaking the law, but still he was laughing about it. Terrible!

I still have faith that the majority of police officers are good people, who do a difficult job under stressfull conditions and is mostly thankless.... but are still not racists.

I just hope that the officers are dealt with and sacked!
Yeah, laughing about the asian family whilst letting off a white person was out of order. That said, if he'd let them drive off and they'd had an accident (no tax or insurance) then some other poor sod would have paid the price (literally) and the policeman could have lost his job.

As previously said, the racist police highlighted in the programme were the minority - a true relection of the population if you like. Of course they should be weeded but it is not easy when these sniggering idiots only express their views behind closed doors and to people they trust. At least thanks to this programme these "officers" should shortly be shown the door.

The stuff with the asian officer was interesting too. The fact that he was (supposedly) fast-tracked into the force seemed to cause a lot of resentment and not just with the racist officers highlighted in the film. Isn't it counter-productive to fast-track asain and black officers if it is going to cause such resentment amongst the ordinary rank and file, especially if the black and asian officers are driven out as a result? Positive discrimination with a negative effect if you ask me.

Originally posted by Zamo
Isn't it counter-productive to fast-track asain and black officers if it is going to cause such resentment amongst the ordinary rank and file, especially if the black and asian officers are driven out as a result? Positive discrimination with a negative effect if you ask me.
This is an issue right across industry and the public sector and not just for black and asian candidates. There is fast tracking for graduates in most walks of life which also causes resentment. There is a need to increase the proportion of graduates, women and ethnic minorities throughout the private and public sectors, including political representation. Until the senior ranks of all of these reflect the demographics of the population as a whole then some form of postive discrimination is necessary. Leaving it to the decision makers to ensure fairness has not worked yet as they tend to promote 'one of us' type of candidates.

Perhaps someone else can think of a solution but it has been baffling industry, business and government for years.

The programme produced some shocking revelations in terms of the pure hatred for Asians within the police service.

However, I did feel quite sorry for the GMP force in being picked on in this way. I reckon that a hidden camera in any workplace could expose similar attitudes to these.

I really don't see how to get round it as no interview will expose racists/sexists/homophobics. We all say what we know the interviewer wants to hear don't we.

I agree with the poster who brought up the issue of fast tracking ethnic minorities in that it can only breed resentment from fellow officers and to be quite honest I wouldn't want any preferential treatment because I am a woman. I would want to suceed on equal terms otherwise I would never be equal.

Originally posted by max
This is an issue right across industry and the public sector and not just for black and asian candidates. There is fast tracking for graduates in most walks of life which also causes resentment. There is a need to increase the proportion of graduates, women and ethnic minorities throughout the private and public sectors, including political representation. Until the senior ranks of all of these reflect the demographics of the population as a whole then some form of postive discrimination is necessary. Leaving it to the decision makers to ensure fairness has not worked yet as they tend to promote 'one of us' type of candidates.

Perhaps someone else can think of a solution but it has been baffling industry, business and government for years.
Max, you are right that the employment of people in all types of jobs and at all levels should reflect the demographics of the population. "Positive" discrimination will make this happen quicker but at what price?

Discriminate against white people or males to try and redress the mistakes of the past is counter-productive. It causes resentment, fuels racist (and sexist) feeling and is part of the reason tw*ts like the BNP are gaining support. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing positive about discrimination however you try to justify it.

I remember having a chat with a black women who was a director at the last local authority at which I worked. She hated the idea of positive discrimination for exactly the reasons I have stated. Not all black people in the council (which applied a strict equal opp's policy) shared her opinion but it was only the ones who weren't getting on!

Originally posted by Mo
I really don't see how to get round it as no interview will expose racists/sexists/homophobics. We all say what we know the interviewer wants to hear don't we.

Yeah I have been thinking about this myself, but surely the answer is staring us in the face. It just needs a covert undercover officer in the training school, going out drinking with the lads (and lasses) and picking out who is a bad 'un

They do this for officers suspected of fraud and drug dealing etc already, dont they?

I didnt see the programme but no surprises really are there?

The police are made up of people. Some are racist some are homophobic some are nice. If they want the job they are hardly going to admit to prejudices in the interview. We will never change people we can only hope the police are mainly good. Its sad but thats life.

My grandad was a police officer in "the good old days" hoho.

We get the police force we deserve. Our society is not exactly full of reasonable people who will always listen to both sides of the argument and never react before they think.

even i was suprised and im in a school which has a fair few racist but never even expected to see/hear anything like that. and the unfair approach

"yeh ill stop him just because hes a **** in a jag" - WHAT A W*****R!!

So what if there is a coloured person in a nice car we are all humans and who cares where we come from in our world.

RACISTS ARE THE SAME AS BULLIES; WEAK AND COWARDS!!

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It's taken this long?????? :confused: :confused: :mad:

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Yeah, but it's been nearly 6 months. In any other walk of life you'd be sacked on the spot.

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Ah, so they were 'doing things correctly' were they? I suppose this also extends to lieing under oath to secure convictions.

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Well I have first hand experience of cops lieing under oath to cover their own backs, and I've been told it's common practice, which doesn't surprise me.

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I know because it was my brothers word against the copper's and fortunately on this occasion the magistrate believed him.

However, if my bro wasn't such a trustworthy person, I doubt his side of the story would have been believed.

There's no point complaining either, because all the evidence used in court had to be re-examined... and guess who the big bosses sided with...

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Well I don't mean to generalise, and I'm sure most police officers are decent people, but you can't help feeling cynical about the whole system when you've had a bad experience.

As I said, the magistrate said catagorically that the policeman concerned acted agressively and unnecessarily forceful and as far as I'm aware all 3 magistrates agreed on the outcome. We filed a complaint, but for some ridiculous reason all evidence has to be reexamined and we got nowhere. My brother even said that he'd settle for an apology; no such luck.

But anyway, to drag this back on-topic, I gather that the police officers concerned were caught being racist on camera, which was then broadcast to the entire nation? If so then why were they not sacked on the spot? In any other job I think you would be.

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Well in that case it's wrong how it is IMO.

I have no doubt there are racists in the police force, considering the numbers involved there has to be a percentage. However, I can honestly say that in all my 40+ years I don't have a bad word against them. The oldest of my mixed-race kids has been driving for a couple of years now and was often stopped for road checks, this could be weekly and sometimes more than once a week. It didn't help that he looked younger than his years but he was always polite and courteous to them and became known down at the local station where he had to produce his documentation.

At one time he hung around with a few mates, some of these white and known to the police and a couple of times during checks the PCs concerned asked him why he hung around with such undesirables and then asked him if he would consider joining up!

I'm not claiming that he's an angel however, just that respect works both ways. I brought all my kids up to show respect to others and thankfully it has so far had good results (I did want to join up myself but didn't make the height requirements at the time). I dread to think of some situations but contrary to the thread begun by Sam Miguel, you don't always know what is around the corner!

LMAO (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/3664381.stm) - and they saud humour in the force doesn't exist.

Now would you say this MCing coppa is being patronising and stereotypical or just trying to give a different spin on recruitment?

Wot would YO Momma say?

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MCing????????????? At times you wonder????????????

So you think they were having a larf then do you or is the assumption more a case of 'tar all coppers with the same brush'?

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I suppose it's one of those occasions where you have to be there really - I'm not into stereotypes and presumptions and would rather form my own opinions in my own time - but I still believe that some people join the forces for career and community reasons and can see past all the chaff that eventually falls by the wayside.