One of my pet hates is people who incorrectly use the word "of" as though it is a verb, in the place of "have". There is no verb "to of", its "to have". Therefore you don't say or write "I should of" or "I could of", you say or write "I should have" or "I could have". Granted, these can be abbreviated to "could've" and "should've" but are still not pronounced "of". I have heard numerous people on TV incorrectly using English in this way, and quite often in the written form too. So if you or anyone you know does this, please learn: There is no verb; "to of".

:confused: hmmm seems logical though.

People don't appreciate that "of", in that context, is a colloquial abbrevaition of " 've" which is a shortened version of "have". They just can't spell, do grammar or punctuation properly, and hence don't realise their mistake... it drives me mad too!! Especially people who write 'nite' and can't place apostrophes properly (e.g. it's)

8) Nah Den Ace........

Originally posted by Agent Dan
.........and can't place apostrophes properly (e.g. it's)

"It's" catches a lot of people out!

It's is an abbreviation of it is or it has. However, in the case of something belonging to it, you would expect that to be it's also (the same as the ball belonging to Dave is Dave's ball). This is not the case and should, in this instance, be its.

Here endeth the lesson!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

Originally posted by t020
...There is no verb "to of", its "to have"...

Sorry to be pedantic, but since we're talking grammar, it's "it's", or "it is", not "its" :p :)

Clever ain't it? :P

Ha've 'a loo'k a't th'e Apostrophe Protection Society (http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk) coi'tesi of Tony Ruscoe fr'm ''anoth'er thre'd.

:thumbsup:

I should of pro'ly checked other thread's for grammatical links etc. Its all interesting stuff tho, like, and that, innit?

It's the same as using 'of' when saying 'bored of it', it should be 'bored with it'. More and more people say of and not with. Of is a popular word innit! Then again living in Sheffield, I notice that people say 'it were' all the time when it should be 'it was'. We could go on all day really. :)

Bored 'of' it though is correct (I think?) as you are bored, and the of (genitive case) infers belonging, so the word 'bored' belongs to it, as an association.

Phew, if that made sense then please get me some help... I'm only 23 and I shouldn't care about this stuff!!! :loopy:

I had a discussion with my mum about bored of versus bored with and she explained it to me but I can't remember her explanation! Bored of though is incorrect according to how grammar was taught in 'her day' and she gets really annoyed when ever people say bored of! I'll have to investigate because it would be amusing if I could prove her wrong!

To be honest alot of all the mispronounciations these days are probably due to the lack of grammar taught at school which is being passed on, I know I didn't do much at school, my mum always talks about clauses etc and their grammar lessons which we didn't learn in my day! It is also to do with regional dialect e.g. the sheffield were Vs was, 'it were weren't it' should be 'it was, wasn't it', and the whole internet/text abbreviations that are creeping in, hence 'nite' and 'of' instead of 'have' etc. We live in a different age now, imagine if we still spoke in ye olde english still!!

edited grammatical errors!!:)

I am fed up with people who cannot spell 'Hiccough' ("Hiccup"), who think 'Alright' is a word and who omit the apostrophes in 'plane and 'phone.

I mean, the apostrophe is a lazy convention anyway, invented for moveable type in order to make words fit into tight columns; hardly something required any longer, except perhaps to indicicate a genitive declension of an object.

To omit the apostrophe in 'plane or 'phone is further laziness and should be punished by having the perpetrators fingers nailed to a plank of wood, in order to prevent recidivism.

Incidentally - how is 'ghoti' pronounced, anyone?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Incidentally - how is 'ghoti' pronounced, anyone?

fish

What do you call Santa's little helpers?

Subordinate clauses.

Foxxx - grammar is my personal vendetta!! I'm young though, and still got taught it in school. No-one ever pronounced "olde englishe" like it was spelt!! They just hadn't standardised spelling yet! Although I see your point, I think that 'nite' and others like it are used through ignorance and laziness rather than because the language is evolving...

(although you could argue that as long as the meaning is understood then that's all language is for... so who cares!!!!)

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Foxxx - grammar is my personal vendetta!! I'm young though, and still got taught it in school. No-one ever pronounced "olde englishe" like it was spelt!! They just hadn't standardised spelling yet! Although I see your point, I think that 'nite' and others like it are used through ignorance and laziness rather than because the language is evolving...

(although you could argue that as long as the meaning is understood then that's all language is for... so who cares!!!!)

So what's your position on excessive use of exclaimation marks?

:lol:

Nomme

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
To omit the apostrophe in 'plane or 'phone is further laziness and should be punished by having the perpetrators fingers nailed to a plank of wood, in order to prevent recidivism.
Surely 'phone' has entered the language as a word now though, because of mobiles and all that?

Mobile telephone seems a tad long winded, I've never known anyone or any publication that uses the term 'mobile telephone' rather than 'mobile phone'.

I think children should be taught a foreign language at school, it helps you appreciate how languages work a little better. I never really thought about the concept of verbs before I started learning French.

Originally posted by Sidla
Surely 'phone' has entered the language as a word now though, because of mobiles and all that?

Mobile telephone seems a tad long winded, I've never known anyone or any publication that uses the term 'mobile telephone' rather than 'mobile phone'.

And the correct spelling of phone is 'phone
You have missed the apostrophe again - now where is my hammer?

As I said, surely the word "phone" (no apostrophe) has entered the language due to mobile technology.

I challenge you to find a website that refers to a mobile phone as either "mobile 'phone" or "mobile telephone".

Originally posted by nommedenet
So what's your position on excessive use of exclaimation marks?

:lol:

Nomme

I think you can drop the i in exclaim when it's used as part of the word exclamation. Hee hee.

Originally posted by Sidla
As I said, surely the word "phone" (no apostrophe) has entered the language due to mobile technology.

I challenge you to find a website that refers to a mobile phone as either "mobile 'phone" or "mobile telephone".

All I was doing with my "I hate..." post is to demonstrate that language
a)belongs to no-one
b)changes of its own accord

Hence all ranting about anyone using incorrect grammar, spelling or punctuation is largely irrelevant. If enough people do it, then it is correct. Until then it is merely idiolect.

It is now accepted that alright is one word. When I was at school it was definitely two. Do I get uptight about it, do I tell everyone how uptight it makes me? Only when I have a humorous (sorry you missed it) point to make.

Originally posted by max
I think you can drop the i in exclaim when it's used as part of the word exclamation. Hee hee.
<chuckle>

Originally posted by Sidla
I challenge you to find a website that refers to a mobile phone as either "mobile 'phone" or "mobile telephone".

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3939&perpage=15&pagenumber=2 lol

OK, seriously - "Mobile Telephone":

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22mobile+telephone%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Only when I have a humorous (sorry you missed it) point to make.
Hilarious.

Originally posted by Hodge
OK, seriously - "Mobile Telephone":

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22mobile+telephone%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=
Already tried that, my only excuse is that they all seem to be geeky things that wouldn't concern the average Joe.

As long as we all get the gist what's the lem?

I think it is quite nice to see peoples quirky little mistakes. I used to work in a council tax department (please spare me any jokes) and there was one girl who kept putting on the notebook of customer's accounts... "Customer rang re bill and was very high rated." She meant he was irated, not that his bill was too high... although it probably was!!!!

For more on this subject - and to learn how one man with a temperament not unlike T020's invented most of our grammar and punctuation anyway, about 150 years ago, do read this wonderful book. I loved it and I reproduce a review from the web somewhere

The Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way
Bryson, Bill


With dazzling wit and astonishing insight, Bill Bryson--the acclaimed author of "The Lost Continent"--brilliantly explores the remarkable history, eccentricities, resilience and sheer fun of the English language. From the first descent of the larynx into the throat (why you can talk but your dog can't), to the fine lost art of swearing, Bryson tells the fascinating, often uproarious story of an inadequate, second-rate tongue of peasants that developed into one of the world's largest growth industries.

Originally posted by max
I think you can drop the i in exclaim when it's used as part of the word exclamation. Hee hee.

You seem to have omitted the quotes round 'i' in that sentence, Max.

'Touche!' :)

Anyway - its one of the laws of Usenet. Any criticism of anyone’s grammar or spelling will contain at least one mistake.

Not bad general posting advice here :
http://www.teach-nology.com/tutorials/usenet/rules/

Nomme

Originally posted by nommedenet
You seem to have omitted the quotes round 'i' in that sentence, Max.

'Touche!' :)

Anyway - its one of the laws of Usenet. Any criticism of anyone’s grammar or spelling will contain at least one mistake.

Not bad general posting advice here :
http://www.teach-nology.com/tutorials/usenet/rules/

Nomme

Aargh, mods arguing in public. Just wait 'til Geoff reads this thread.

Nice use of touché but you missed the accent .:)

Shouldn't that be mod's? :lol:

Originally posted by Foxxx
I had a discussion with my mum about bored of versus bored with and she explained it to me but I can't remember her explanation! Bored of though is incorrect according to how grammar was taught in 'her day' and she gets really annoyed when ever people say bored of! I'll have to investigate because it would be amusing if I could prove her wrong!


I cant guarantee the accuracy of this site, a link to which I am posting up, but it seems to say that "bored of" is wrong.

I say "bored of" myself, never even knew before today that I shouldn't

There are other examples on the site too, enjoy

http://www.vic.uh.edu/ac/efl/prepositionsphrasal.html

I say 'bored of', but when you think about it, it doesn't seem right. 'Bored with' seems to make a lot more sense.

What about using a preposition to end a sentence with? Does anybody bother avoiding that anymore?

The other is to casually split infinitives. How prevalent is that and does it annoy anyone?

Originally posted by Belle
The Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way
Bryson, Bill


With dazzling wit and astonishing insight, Bill Bryson--the acclaimed author of "The Lost Continent"--brilliantly explores the remarkable history, eccentricities, resilience and sheer fun of the English language. From the first descent of the larynx into the throat (why you can talk but your dog can't), to the fine lost art of swearing, Bryson tells the fascinating, often uproarious story of an inadequate, second-rate tongue of peasants that developed into one of the world's largest growth industries.

Excellent book - worth a read.

Getting back to the original subject of "of", can anyone tell me what the expression "off of" means and whether it is peculiar to round here?

Ta!

Originally posted by MrHelicopter
Excellent book - worth a read.

Getting back to the original subject of "of", can anyone tell me what the expression "off of" means and whether it is peculiar to round here?

Ta!

As in 'off of the Manor' I presume? It means that someone originates from that area of Sheffield known as the Manor.

'Off of' should be from.

It's like the stupid S. Yorks. use of the word 'while'

Originally posted by Belle
For more on this subject - and to learn how one man with a temperament not unlike T020's invented most of our grammar and punctuation anyway, about 150 years ago, do read this wonderful book. I loved it and I reproduce a review from the web somewhere

The Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way
Bryson, Bill

I'm a big Bryson fan, but this book was one I just couldn't get in to.

Originally posted by Sidla
'Off of' should be from.

It's like the stupid S. Yorks. use of the word 'while'

Don't get me started on that!

In some cases it can be correct, however unintentional this is, e.g.

"Let's wait here while the bus comes". - This actually makes sense to the Standard English speaker in that the people would be waiting there WHILE the bus makes its journey.

In other cases however, Sheffield/Yorkshire use of while can be totally incorrect and misleading, e.g.

"Don't come back while the shop is open". (taken from this site I think). - to the Standard English speaker this would give the impression that the shopkeeper does not want him/her their during the shops' opening hours. However, to the Yorkshire speaker this means to not go back to the shop UNTIL the shop is open.

It is examples like this that show the need for a Standardised set of spelling and grammar rules.

but who decides T020?

Who says that my use of English is better or worse or different to yours for example, should we chose to use one set of rules.

And which set? the C18th or the C19th or the C20th set of rules for instance?

A genuine enquirer asks....

PS To refer to your signature, how would you feel about "Old Tories, Old Service Cuts?"

The Tories have pledged to cut 20% of public spending.
Baggsy we get to keep all five of our Junior Schools and not close one of them in my area, just as an example, okay?

Originally posted by Belle
For more on this subject - and to learn how one man with a temperament not unlike T020's invented most of our grammar and punctuation anyway, about 150 years ago, do read this wonderful book. I loved it and I reproduce a review from the web somewhere

The Mother Tongue: English & How It Got That Way
Bryson, Bill


With dazzling wit and astonishing insight, Bill Bryson--the acclaimed author of "The Lost Continent"--brilliantly explores the remarkable history, eccentricities, resilience and sheer fun of the English language. From the first descent of the larynx into the throat (why you can talk but your dog can't), to the fine lost art of swearing, Bryson tells the fascinating, often uproarious story of an inadequate, second-rate tongue of peasants that developed into one of the world's largest growth industries.

Belle I have to agree this is a wonderful book :)

I'm quite pernickety (sp?!) about grammar and spelling and punctuation though I'm not perfect at them by any means.

I think an advantage of being bilingual is that you can also spot daft things in your own language.

One of the favourites being "This door is alarmed" which just makes you want to go and comfort it really.

I also like those road signs with just several words on which could be interpreted in several ways.

POLICE
SPEED
CHECK
AREA

My first interpretation being that it is a warning to drivers that police are speeding so you should check the area :)

Originally posted by Belle
I cant guarantee the accuracy of this site, a link to which I am posting up, but it seems to say that "bored of" is wrong.

I say "bored of" myself, never even knew before today that I shouldn't

There are other examples on the site too, enjoy

http://www.vic.uh.edu/ac/efl/prepositionsphrasal.html

Good site, interesting how many of the incorrect expressions have crept into everyday language!
I wonder why and how?? Who started it!
I used to say bored of all the time but got so tired of being corrected by my mum, I made a conscious effort to say bored with!
My mum always corrected me as a child, which is probably a good thing now in hindsight, otherwise all the northerners I meet would take the mickey even more out of my southern accent! e.g. better, water, I used to drop the T's as a kid, three was free, but due to my mothers perseverance, I pronounce them, and it's second nature to! So if anyone calls me a cockney I get very offended now!!! :) he he he. I was born nowhere near the sound of the bow bells!

Originally posted by Belle
but who decides T020?

Who says that my use of English is better or worse or different to yours for example, should we chose to use one set of rules.

And which set? the C18th or the C19th or the C20th set of rules for instance?

A genuine enquirer asks....

PS To refer to your signature, how would you feel about "Old Tories, Old Service Cuts?"

The Tories have pledged to cut 20% of public spending.
Baggsy we get to keep all five of our Junior Schools and not close one of them in my area, just as an example, okay?


Standard English was designed to make sure misunderstandings like the examples in my post don't occur. Standard English is the correct dialect and those who don't use it are simply breaking the rules and risk being misinterpreted.

PS. Labour have been increasing public spending, resulting in billions of debt that will somehow have to be made up, probably through yet more taxation. The worst part is, the public services haven't even made any significant improvements over this periods. Hospital waiting lists are still unacceptable, crime is rising, and silly educational targets are undermining the credibility of our examinations. New Labour are simply throwing money at bureaucracy and inefficiency so reducing the current irresponsible levels of public spending can only be a good thing.

8) Nah Den Ace........

Originally posted by t020
Labour have been increasing public spending, resulting in billions of debt that will somehow have to be made up, probably through yet more taxation. The worst part is, the public services haven't even made any significant improvements over this periods. Hospital waiting lists are still unacceptable, crime is rising, and silly educational targets are undermining the credibility of our examinations. New Labour are simply throwing money at bureaucracy and inefficiency so reducing the current irresponsible levels of public spending can only be a good thing.

Labour isn't working...........Tory never worked............LibDem never will work.............

..............VOTE FOR NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

Originally posted by Spacehopper
8) Nah Den Ace........



Labour isn't working...........Tory never worked............LibDem never will work.............

..............VOTE FOR NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!!

Regards,

Spacehopper.
And no matter who you vote for, the Government always gets in.

I was in my mid 30s before I found out that "whilst" was not a real word. I'd always used it in my speech along with all sorts of bad grammer. But that's what accents and colloquialisms are all about. Why pick apart something that is accepted in everyday language. Its the way we are. It's what makes Yorkshire people, Yorkshire. As long as we are taught at school the correct way to read and write it and the use good grammer. There's no way we can all talk the Queens English. Why would we want to? It makes us unique and different, bad grammer an' all.
Now if you want to hear how a language can be pulled apart and ruined, see what the Americans have done to the English language.
There's too many snobs here worrying about "could of- should of"
You won't make many friends by picking apart the way people talk.

Um... 'whilst' is a word... meaning 'whereas' or 'at the same time as'... It's in the dictionary and everything!!:confused:

Originally posted by t020
Standard English was designed to make sure misunderstandings like the examples in my post don't occur. Standard English is the correct dialect and those who don't use it are simply breaking the rules and risk being misinterpreted.



Fair enough, but I can understand what people mean when they say could of instead could have! or bored of etc :) same as yorkshire dialect were instead of was and many other regional dialects. I can't see how that can be misinterpreted!

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
To omit the apostrophe in 'plane or 'phone is further laziness and should be punished by having the perpetrators fingers nailed to a plank of wood, in order to prevent recidivism.Except language changes all the time and these have now become words in their own right.

As for the "nite" thing... I use it sometimes. I'm not lazy. I'm not thick. I can spell too. Sometimes I just want to use it like that. Who says it's spelt "night" anyway? "Jail" used to be spelt "gaol" until we became more Americanized (sic). I bet hardly any kids would spell it "gaol" now...

I know I rant about the apostrophe being in the wrong place, but that's because it changes the meaning of a sentence. A phone is a 'phone is a telephone. A 'plane is a plane is an aeroplace. Dropping those apostrophes (or should that be "apostrophi"!?!) doesn't change the meaning. Neither does spelling night "nite"...

Well, that's what I think.

Exactly, I can spell (most the time!) and if I need to, I can speak the Queen's English.

I personally have shortened a lot of words and changed the spelling for pure convenience as part of the text message generation, if you only have 5 spaces left in a text message I would rather write 'niteX', than 'night' for instance. Same with apostrophes, I would prefer to save the space! That's not laziness, it's being economical!! The only problem is, kids are doing this too, and getting into bad habits.

Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe
Except language changes all the time and these have now become words in their own right.

As for the "nite" thing... I use it sometimes. I'm not lazy. I'm not thick. I can spell too. Sometimes I just want to use it like that. Who says it's spelt "night" anyway? "Jail" used to be spelt "gaol" until we became more Americanized (sic). I bet hardly any kids would spell it "gaol" now...

I know I rant about the apostrophe being in the wrong place, but that's because it changes the meaning of a sentence. A phone is a 'phone is a telephone. A 'plane is a plane is an aeroplace. Dropping those apostrophes (or should that be "apostrophi"!?!) doesn't change the meaning. Neither does spelling night "nite"...

Well, that's what I think.
Phanerothyme's post was a joke apparently.

Ah, now Americanizationalism of language - that's a differentist kettle of fish. New words inventedized, and word innovationisms by appenderizing "-ize", "-ism", "-ization", "-alism" and so on, to existing words.

Especially in the corporate/business world - words are ized, ismed and Americanizationalized all the time.

Fascinating stuff really, anthropological linguistics.

Originally posted by Hodge
Ah, now Americanizationalism of language - that's a differentist kettle of fish. New words inventedized, and word innovationisms by appenderizing "-ize", "-ism", "-ization", "-alism" and so on, to existing words.

Especially in the corporate/business world - words are ized, ismed and Americanizationalized all the time.

Fascinating stuff really, anthropological linguistics.

Actually I believe the 'ize' ending is 'original' English. The Americans kept that and we changed to 'ise'...and now were changing back again...

If your interested in words and such this is a good site:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm

Nomme

Originally posted by nommedenet
Actually I believe the 'ize' ending is 'original' English. The Americans kept that and we changed to 'ise'...and now were changing back again...

If your interested in words and such this is a good site:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm

Nomme

Cool, cheers mate - I'll have a look at that later :)

Originally posted by nommedenet
Actually I believe the 'ize' ending is 'original' English. The Americans kept that and we changed to 'ise'...and now were changing back again...

If your interested in words and such this is a good site:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm

Nomme

Ooh now that is a top site - added to my hotlist.

Thanks for that one nomme, although I note he hasn't included chthonic on there yet, something of an omission IMO.

Originally posted by Sidla
Phanerothyme's post was a joke apparently.
Hehe, glad to see the bypass operation was a success Sidla
:P

Originally posted by Foxxx
Fair enough, but I can understand what people mean when they say could of instead could have! or bored of etc :) same as yorkshire dialect were instead of was and many other regional dialects. I can't see how that can be misinterpreted!

It is bad enough when people SAY "could of", but at least they can use the excuse that they were abbreviating "could have" to "could've" and their accent dictated that the "'ve" would be pronounced "of" (however unlikely this is). When people WRITE "could of" however, it is even worse, as they are showing how bad their grammar and grasp of the English language really is.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Um... 'whilst' is a word... meaning 'whereas' or 'at the same time as'... It's in the dictionary and everything!!:confused:
You were absolutely right.
Whilst studying for a degree at an American college I was told by a teacher not to use the word "whilst" as it was not a real word. She made me think it was slang???? At the time I did not have a computer so I didn't have the technology to research into it. I took her word for it. So after now going to the online dictionary I found that the word is chiefly a British word, but apparently not used by Americans. So since 1995 I thought my teacher was right, I never questioned it. I might just get my old papers out and send them to her and say SEE!!!!!
Thanks Agent Dan.
Funke88

Originally posted by nommedenet
If your interested in words and such this is a good site:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm



I went to the site - it is really good. I subscribed to the email list and got an automatic email asking where I heard of the site so I sent them the link to this thread.

So, if Mr WorldWideWords is reading, hello!

I've just remembered that what really bugs me is when people say / spell "are" instead of "our"!

Unbelievable, I know - but it was quite common with the kids I went to school with. (Perhaps because their accept made them pronounce them both in the same way though.)

terrible accident at level crossing in Yorkshire - sign said 'do not cross while light is red'

Originally posted by t020
One of my pet hates is people who incorrectly use the word "of" as though it is a verb, in the place of "have". There is no verb "to of", its "to have". Therefore you don't say or write "I should of" or "I could of", you say or write "I should have" or "I could have". Granted, these can be abbreviated to "could've" and "should've" but are still not pronounced "of". I have heard numerous people on TV incorrectly using English in this way, and quite often in the written form too. So if you or anyone you know does this, please learn: There is no verb; "to of".

get a life:loopy:

Originally posted by fittdiva
get a life:loopy:
Get an education... :loopy:

Originally posted by Sidla
Get an education... :loopy:

got one thanks.:P

not that it counts for much if your not happy

Originally posted by fittdiva
got one thanks.:P

not that it counts for much if your not happy

Shouldn't that be 'you're' not happy!! :P

Originally posted by Foxxx
Shouldn't that be 'you're' not happy!! :P

Shouldn't that be, "Shouldn't that be 'you're' not happy?" because it was a question?

:P

(We could go on forever!)

Do you know what really gets my goat? People who use "onto" as a word. It isn't. EVER.

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
Do you know what really gets my goat? People who use "onto" as a word. It isn't. EVER. Really?

From: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=onto

on·to
prep. On top of; to a position on; upon: The dog jumped onto the chair. See Usage Note at on (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=on).
Informal. Fully aware of; informed about: The police are onto the robbers' plans.

Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe
Shouldn't that be, "Shouldn't that be 'you're' not happy?" because it was a question?

:P

(We could go on forever!)

lol! It was retorical!

Originally posted by Foxxx
lol! It was retorical!

Shouldn't that be 'lol! It was rhetorical!'?:)

Haven't any of you got any work to do?

(yes, probably should be "have not" but it sounds better my way)

Originally posted by max
Shouldn't that be 'lol! It was rhetorical!'?:)

Shouldn't you be using "double quotes" instead of 'inverted commas', when quoting? :P

Originally posted by Belle
Haven't any of you got any work to do?

(yes, probably should be "have not" but it sounds better my way)
And you? The difference being that I know where you work. :evil:

Originally posted by Hodge
Shouldn't you be using "double quotes" instead of 'inverted commas', when quoting? :P

Why? I only quoted it once.

Originally posted by max
Why? I only quoted it once.

Eh...? lol

Yes, you are correct, I spelt it incorrectly, but I am at work and yes I should be working and yes I rushed my spelling!! naughty me I should of known better....oops should have. AHHHH!

What's with the onto, I thought that was ok?

Originally posted by Tony Ruscoe
Really?

From: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=onto

on·to
prep. On top of; to a position on; upon: The dog jumped onto the chair. See Usage Note at on (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=on).
Informal. Fully aware of; informed about: The police are onto the robbers' plans.


Complete and utter tosh.

The cat jumped onto the chair.
The cat jumped on to the chair.

After the pub, we're moving onto the club.
After the pub, we're moving on to the club.

Perhaps my English lessons were just more exact and exacting than most.

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
Complete and utter tosh.

The cat jumped onto the chair.
The cat jumped on to the chair.

After the pub, we're moving onto the club.
After the pub, we're moving on to the club.

Perhaps my English lessons were just more exact and exacting than most.
Or perhaps you just didn't have access to a dictionary?

Certainly not an online dictionary - because we all believe everything we find online, don't we?

Quit the bitchy tone, please.

By the way, there are many additions to the English canon, that one may find in the dictionary, that I would NOT consider to be a correct and proper use of the language. Words seem to be added to the OED as soon as they enter common parlance, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
Certainly not an online dictionary - because we all believe everything we find online, don't we?

Quit the bitchy tone, please.

By the way, there are many additions to the English canon, that one may find in the dictionary, that I would NOT consider to be a correct and proper use of the language. Words seem to be added to the OED as soon as they enter common parlance, unfortunately.

Interesting - do you think then, that language should not evolve, develop, or new words be introduced?

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
Complete and utter tosh.

The cat jumped onto the chair.
The cat jumped on to the chair.

After the pub, we're moving onto the club.
After the pub, we're moving on to the club.

Perhaps my English lessons were just more exact and exacting than most.
It is a word, but can only be used when an object is placed on top of something else. Therefore "The cat jumped onto the chair".

However, "After the pub, we're moving onto the the club" would not be correct, because it should be phased "After the pub, we're moving on, to the club".

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
Complete and utter tosh.



And how, exactly, would you describe this tone?

Indeed, surely once upon a time (or should that be up on! he he), I am assuming that the words internet, modem, broadband etc did not exist. The language does evolve and words are added to the OED as soon as they enter common parlance, fortunately.

However, we are detracting from the errors and problems with grammar. New words is another matter innit!

I tell thee, it's a reet'un, in't it?

Originally posted by max
And how, exactly, would you describe this tone?

If it was you I was maligning then I might accept it...

And I'd also describe the tone in your quote as "vaguely pi**taking". I mean, who actually says "tosh" in this day and age?

The evolution of language, and its etymology, is of great interest. Of course I don't believe that language shouldn't progress (note the contractions used in this very post, for example), but it is interesting to debate exactly how different our language would be today were it not for instantaneous means of communication.

Personally, I feel that too much weight is given to words that have adopted a certain position in our common cultural and societal wisdom - for example, texting, reality TV and its ilk, drug slang etc etc - that will inevitably find themselves out of use within a decade.

And I'll reiterate - just because people are USING a word does not actually MAKE it a word.

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
Personally, I feel that too much weight is given to words that have adopted a certain position in our common cultural and societal wisdom - for example, texting, reality TV and its ilk, drug slang etc etc - that will inevitably find themselves out of use within a decade.

I agree with some points here - especially with regards to "txt spk", of which, I'm no particular fan. While I understand the need to abbreviate to accommodate the limited space of mobile telephone text messages, I don't see the need to utilise it in any other form of communication - i.e. emails, letters, and so on.

I always find it amusing when - especially in the business world of buzz words, and acronyms - word innovation occurs. Appending an -ism, or -ability etcetera.

All interesting stuff though.

Excuse the rushed/hasty post, but it's time to go home... I've got a train to catch.

Originally posted by Jack Yerbody
And I'll reiterate - just because people are USING a word does not actually MAKE it a word.

that depends on what the meaning of the word 'word' is.

If people use a sound to communicate with one another and the signified thing pretty much matches in both people's head, then I would call that a word. Semioticians please feel free to jump in here.

'Onto' is just another example of compounding words into a single word, reinforced by the verbal repitition of the phrase on to, and some modification of the last syllable from 'oo' to 'uh' when spoken with a word directly afterwards.

'Alright' goes even further in that now the 'r' in right is almost universally dropped in a process called elision I believe. This, of course, used to be two words when I was taught it at school.

It's both now, although in some circles 'alright' is regarded as vulgar and lazy, when in fact it is just a direct result of spoken rather than written communication. It's easier to say 'awright' than 'all right' on account of how much the tongue has to move between 'L' and 'R'.

These are words even if they haven't yet been ossified by being pinned into a dictionary, which then has the job of not only charting the change in the sound and spelling of a word, but must also track its semantic change too.

Has anyone stop to think that maybe the person who wrote what happens to be your "I hate it when they...." pet hate might just happens to be suffering from Learning Disabilities such as dyslexia or other form of disabilities which prevent them writing correct English?

Originally posted by Spacehopper
8) Nah Den Ace........



"It's" catches a lot of people out!

It's is an abbreiviation of it is of it has.

Nearly as silly a mistake as spelling 'abbreviation' wrongly, and putting 'of' instead of 'or'.

We all make mistakes, don't we?

8) Nah Den Ace........

Originally posted by markham
Nearly as silly a mistake as spelling 'abbreviation' wrongly, and putting 'of' instead of 'or'.

We all make mistakes, don't we?

:D ...........Hoist by my own petard!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

Originally posted by Spacehopper
8) Nah Den Ace........



:D ...........Hoist by my own petard!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

Just to advertise my own ignorance Spacehopper, what's a petard?

Hoap weer all goin too stop krittisizin eech otherz grandma and spelin now.

8) Nah Den Ace........

Originally posted by markham
Just to advertise my own ignorance Spacehopper, what's a petard?

Hoap weer all goin too stop krittisizin eech otherz grandma and spelin now.

:D .......Arf arf!

"hoist with his own petard" explanation (http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxhoistw.html)

In other words, it's what happens to smart arses (who sir, me sir?) who are caught out by their own rhetoric!

Regards,

Spacehopper.

Thanks Spacehopper.

Have to watch my short fuze, eh?

Originally posted by Sidla
Surely 'phone' has entered the language as a word now though, because of mobiles and all that?

Mobile telephone seems a tad long winded, I've never known anyone or any publication that uses the term 'mobile telephone' rather than 'mobile phone'.

I think children should be taught a foreign language at school, it helps you appreciate how languages work a little better. I never really thought about the concept of verbs before I started learning French.

Living in South Yorkshire, or West Riding when I was a lad, we were taught a foreign language - English. :D