I knew that Iams and Eukanuba were unethical about using our pets for testing on, but have been on the Uncaged web site tonight, and was reading what we should be buying and most certainly what we shouldn't be buying.

Money speaks - as we know - and with more knowledge - brings power

Have a read and see if there are any products that you can change from in the hope that these massive money making industries start to realise they can't abuse our animals and get away with it.

I hope they come back on this earth - as the same animal as one they have ok'd the testing on. May there be justice in the world one day.

BUAV No Animal Testing Standard

Check out the Uncaged site - its brilliant how dedicated some people are and I wish them enough money and energy to carry on.

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/petfood.htm

I found out about Ariel and Fabreze and wont buy them now. The only way is to hit them where it hurts but how do they know that we are doing it!
And the general public who have pets mostly havent got a clue.

I try my very best to avoid products made by P&G especially. Occaisionally one slips through the net, for example, Pringles! I had no idea! But I don't buy them any more.

I know when we adopted Maddie a couple of months ago, Thornberry had credit card sized leaflets with a long list of "bad" products on them. That was really really useful:thumbsup:

Are you sure this is current? I heard that Iams and Eukanuba used to do this but I was under the impression they had cleaned up their act?

Also are you aware that the majority of other pet food companies buy the research results from Eukanuba, so if it does still happen then guess we all need to stop feeding any form of dog food to our dogs.

I try my very best to avoid products made by P&G especially. Occaisionally one slips through the net, for example, Pringles! I had no idea! But I don't buy them any more.

I know when we adopted Maddie a couple of months ago, Thornberry had credit card sized leaflets with a long list of "bad" products on them. That was really really useful:thumbsup:

Do you still have that list and is there any chance of sharing it?

Do you still have that list and is there any chance of sharing it?

I shall have a look but it's probably being through the washer a couple of times though knowing me:hihi:

I'll try and find an online version now.....one mo:D

Da daaaah! (http://www.uncaged.co.uk/pgproducts.htm)

Well I'm dead shocked; I didnt realise ther were still so many!
I have printed off 2 copies of the list; one for in the house, and one for in the car, just in case my OH ever does the shopping (not that THAT happens very often lol.)

Only naughty thing I buy on there is Fairy liquid

I buy quite a few of those, but one I really can't give up is Aussie hair care - shocked they are part of P&G!

:(

thanks for this, we decided a while ago that we wanted to shop more ethically, but its very difficult to find information. I'm totally shocked that Body Shop are on the list !!

We've just started to buy Ecover stuff, but need to think again looking at the list.

Co-op seem to be quite a good company - they've changed their carrier bags to home compost bags .. v impressive.

I've just changed to bodyshop shampoo etc thinking it was not tested on animals.Is this wrong?

Gingers, I use Lush products since switching from Body Shop a number of years ago. They are very strict on the sourcing of their ingredients testing and production.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/mar/17/retail.animalrights

I've just changed to bodyshop shampoo etc thinking it was not tested on animals.Is this wrong?As far as I know, a product can state it's not tested on animals if it's not been tested on them in the last x number of years (which may be 5 or 8, I can't remember), but I heard that they design their products, test them, then store them for this time so they can then label them as not tested on animals

I was going to start a thread on this so glad it's already been done.

ALL pet owners should be aware of pet food experiements-I'm not getting all high and mighty about animal testing because I (like most of us) with not think twice about popping a parocetamol and current legislation requires that ALL drugs released in the UK must have been tested on animals before human trials begin (usually rodents/rabbits) and on a least one large, non-rodent species (typically dog/monkey=1000's of animals per drug).

However, as many of us will be animal lovers it's important to be aware of which cosmetic products are tested on animals. We can all learn to be a bit wiser and more considerate when shopping for pet food/cosmetics.

Feed BARF!

As far as I know, a product can state it's not tested on animals if it's not been tested on them in the last x number of years (which may be 5 or 8, I can't remember), but I heard that they design their products, test them, then store them for this time so they can then label them as not tested on animals

There is a BIG grey area :-

If a new company starts up, and uses the same chemicals that another (who admits to testing on animals) use . They don't bother testing on animals but rely upon the results of the first company.

It is important check the labels. "Not Tested on Animals" and "Product and Ingredients" not tested on animals is shown on a lot of labels now.

lets be honest most people don't actually read what is in the food they eat themselves, let alone what they give to their pets.yuk

Are the people that wont use ANY products that are tested on animals strict vegans then? Im uneducated when it comes to this sort of thing and will be looking at the uncaged website to learn more.
However I know people that wont use products tested on animals such as pet food but yet they never check whether the makeup they use is tested or things like that or whether the chicken they are eating had a bad life before it was killed for a sunday dinner etc.... Do you see what I mean? To me if I was going to do one thing against animal rights then I would have to go the whole hog and become a vegan, not wear tested makeup or household products or anything.

I know vegetarians who feed their dogs raw rather than feed them commerical pet food because of the animal testing

Vegitarians don't eat any meat (lamb/steak/chicken/pork) although some will eat fish, wheras vegan's (are supposed to!!) not eat any meat or anything dirived from an animal (eggs/milk/cheese etc) and not wear/use anything derived from an animal (i.e. no leather).

Personally, I'm not either, even though I love animals if I became a vegitarian I'm sure there would not be one less turkey killed for Christmas!!!:hihi:

No point still eating any form of meat when you dont use things tested on animals.

To me people should be vegans or forget about sticking up for animals rights. Otherwise there is no point.

Although there are issues with the way some animals are treated on farms have you actually ever been on a cow/dairy farm? I grew up around farms and the fresian milk cows were treated like royalty!!!! Yes there are bad sides with this industry as any others and things could certainly be improved-but I'd quite happily eat an animal which has had a good life over wearing makeup which animals have been TORTURED for any day!

I try my very best to avoid products made by P&G especially. Occaisionally one slips through the net, for example, Pringles! I had no idea! But I don't buy them any more.

I know when we adopted Maddie a couple of months ago, Thornberry had credit card sized leaflets with a long list of "bad" products on them. That was really really useful:thumbsup:

could we post them on here then more peopel will know what to buy and what not to buy!

No point still eating any form of meat when you dont use things tested on animals.

To me people should be vegans or forget about sticking up for animals rights. Otherwise there is no point.

If everyone were Vegan, alot of the animals we have now wouldn't exist.

Alot of people wouldn't, either.

If everyone were Vegan, alot of the animals we have now wouldn't exist.

Alot of people wouldn't, either.

I just find it hypocrytical to stop using one thing tested on animals but to use another. Do you see what I mean? Like the people that still use make up tested on animals but dont use household stuff tested on animals. Or those that dont use dog food tested on animals but will eat food where the animal suffered a horrible life and death so it could be on its plate. Do you see what I mean? Thats why I said If I was to get into animal rights then I would do the whole thing, not just a bit of it because it would be hypocrytical.

Sort of. The first part yes I try to buoycot anything that is tested on animals whether cosmetics/household wise or that I think has caused unecessary suffering i.e. pet foods too. To buoycot the pet food then use shampoo tested on animals may be hipocritical. As for eating meat and feeding your dog food which needs been tested on dogs these things can't really be compared.

Why do you have the impression that an animal always suffers a horrible life? Some practices are horrible (hence why I would not eat veal) but I ALWAYS buy free range eggs and those chickens have a damn good life!I try to buy as much as possible free range chicken and meat sourced from British farms where the regulations and much more strict that some countries. So you see, by reading into it and using a little thought when your shopping you can make good choices always.

Sort of. The first part yes I try to buoycot anything that is tested on animals whether cosmetics/household wise or that I think has caused unecessary suffering i.e. pet foods too. To buoycot the pet food then use shampoo tested on animals may be hipocritical. As for eating meat and feeding your dog food which needs been tested on dogs these things can't really be compared.

Why do you have the impression that an animal always suffers a horrible life? Some practices are horrible (hence why I would not eat veal) but I ALWAYS buy free range eggs and those chickens have a damn good life!I try to buy as much as possible free range chicken and meat sourced from British farms where the regulations and much more strict that some countries. So you see, by reading into it and using a little thought when your shopping you can make good choices always.

No chick, I dont think all animals that are killed to be food suffer a horrible death. Im just saying some people shouldnt support one thing and eat the other! lol you get what i mean.

I agree, but these are two totally different things! You can't exect people to be a complete animal extremist vegan OR a meat eating animal beater!!!

Many people eat meat and the same people take wonderful care of thier companion animals (but hopefully don't feed them iams!), it's completly different.

There is a BIG grey area :-

If a new company starts up, and uses the same chemicals that another (who admits to testing on animals) use . They don't bother testing on animals but rely upon the results of the first company.... and without the details of what those tests are, we cannot judge whether we approve or not!

I know I've mentioned it before (possibly in this thread), but my neighbour used to feed her cats for free by 'animal testing' (if you're being pedantic). Basically recording how much they ate of a new product which was ready for market

I agree, but these are two totally different things! You can't exect people to be a complete animal extremist vegan OR a meat eating animal beater!!!

Many people eat meat and the same people take wonderful care of thier companion animals (but hopefully don't feed them iams!), it's completly different.

How is an animal which has died a horrific death any different to feeding your dog food tested on animals. same principle!

I buy quite a few of those, but one I really can't give up is Aussie hair care - shocked they are part of P&G!

:(

Then may the tears of a thousand blind rabbits moisturise your shiny, silky hair...


..oh, and don't buy Mars bars or M&M's either. Clicky.

http://www.marscandykills.com/

could we post them on here then more peopel will know what to buy and what not to buy!

I posted a link earlier on in the thread which is useful! Post 7:)

DiamondGirl, you have to do your best in life! Starting with not buying P&G products is easy! I am a volunteer worker at Uncaged and know the sterling work they do. Co-op own products are brilliant. You need never worry about them. Vegans don't go the whole hog - they never touch hogs! It is said that consumers have four times the power of a voter - so we all need to vote with our purses/wallets. I have seen inside labs, factory farms and once you have witnessed this nightmare, you are very careful to do your best not to add to the suffering. Billions of factory farmed animals are at the bottom the list when it comes to welfare. Lab animals are forgotten behind secure closed doors. Supporting Uncaged would be a good first step forward.

DiamondGirl, you have to do your best in life! Starting with not buying P&G products is easy! I am a volunteer worker at Uncaged and know the sterling work they do. Co-op own products are brilliant. You need never worry about them. Vegans don't go the whole hog - they never touch hogs! It is said that consumers have four times the power of a voter - so we all need to vote with our purses/wallets. I have seen inside labs, factory farms and once you have witnessed this nightmare, you are very careful to do your best not to add to the suffering. Billions of factory farmed animals are at the bottom the list when it comes to welfare. Lab animals are forgotten behind secure closed doors. Supporting Uncaged would be a good first step forward.

It makes me sick. I can't even type about it without it upsetting me! I don't envy what you've seen magsie, but I would love to do more then just avoid certain products! :help:

No point still eating any form of meat when you dont use things tested on animals.

To me people should be vegans or forget about sticking up for animals rights. Otherwise there is no point.

Have to disagree with you there.

If every person made one small change that would have vast benefits on animal welfare.

You don't have to go the whole hog to make a difference, just make the changes you feel able to live with.

I agree with Scoop. I dont buy any animal tsted products, my dogs are fed food that is not tested on animals and I am vegetarian. I have thought about going vegan in the past, but I live on cheese and eggs and cannot stand soya milk or black tea/coffee so I would struggle on that score.

I am on the committee and volunteer my time with SDR and also do my bit locally for any animal in need, this is difficult with the amount of animals I have, as well as my own business and family to see too.

I feel I can sleep at night doing my bit which is all that I am physically and mentally capable of, without neglecting my other responsibilities.

Ok then sorry guys, just my opinion :(

No point still eating any form of meat when you dont use things tested on animals.

To me people should be vegans or forget about sticking up for animals rights. Otherwise there is no point.

I do believe it can be possible to eat meat and, at the same time, care about the welfare of animals.

I am vegetarian, but my cat HAS to eat meat, and I feed my dog meat.

If I ate meat myself, I would insist that it was the freedom food meat, where the animal was reared compassionately, lived a natural existence with free access to grazing, and the outside world, and not dragged miles across continents in a truck to be slaughtered, I would want that the animal be killed locally, and humanely.

I just find it hypocrytical to stop using one thing tested on animals but to use another. Do you see what I mean? Like the people that still use make up tested on animals but dont use household stuff tested on animals. Or those that dont use dog food tested on animals but will eat food where the animal suffered a horrible life and death so it could be on its plate. Do you see what I mean? Thats why I said If I was to get into animal rights then I would do the whole thing, not just a bit of it because it would be hypocrytical.

Yes I do see what you mean, but to be honest, I don't think there are very many people in this life that can say they aren't hypocrites, we all are to an extent.

Life isn't black & white, you just have to do what you morally (and financially) can I guess.

I don't agree with animal testing and it really upsets me to think of it, but on the other hand if the only thing that could save my childs life involved using medication that had been tested on animals at some stage, I'd use it without a second thought, some things take priority over others.

Personally I don't use much make-up, but as far as I can remember they could label it as 'not tested on animals' as long as the final product hadn't been. That means any or all the ingredients could have been at some time or another.

I believe Lush are fighting at the moment against the EU as the EU are wanting to enforce all such products to go through animal testing (also something to do with using more packaging, I can't remember exactly).

Some weeks when I go shopping, if i'm feeling like I can afford it I will buy free range products.
But when i'm skint I have to have the attitude that knowing a chicken has scampered about a bit in some straw prior to being stunned then having it's throat cut isn't very important to that vacuum packed chicken right now, and i've got a family to feed.

It's great having strict standards, I wish everything was wonderful all the time, but sadly it isn't and sometimes I have to add to the suffering because I can't afford not to, just like lots of other people.

One of the most enlightening (and horrifying) reads is Food Pets Die For by Ann Martin. It is based on the US commercial pet food industry and the rules are rather more rigid here, but the fact remains that some of the well known US manufacturers are also big names in the UK. It's a must read for anyone concerned about what they feed their pets, it is certainly thought provoking and that's always a good thing.

The book isn't available off the shelf here but it can be bought through Amazon.com. It's not the most joyous gift anyone could receive but if anyone's stuck for ideas of what to put on their Christmas list, it would probably make a huge difference to your animals (for anyone feeding commercial pet food that is).

This link provides an excerpt. http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html

As for animal testing in the human cosmetic industry, I don't know about the rest of you, but if I get shampoo or soap in my eyes, it stings like hell. I wonder how much suffering (and for how long) animals have to endure having chemicals dropped into their eyes, so that it becomes marginally acceptable for humans. It's really not difficult at all to find products which, together with their ingredients, have not involved torturing an animal.

Quote from Fishpole -
"As for animal testing in the human cosmetic industry, I don't know about the rest of you, but if I get shampoo or soap in my eyes, it stings like hell. I wonder how much suffering (and for how long) animals have to endure having chemicals dropped into their eyes, so that it becomes marginally acceptable for humans. It's really not difficult at all to find products which, together with their ingredients, have not involved torturing an animal"

An important point to make here is that your shampoo that stings our eyes is deemed safe after many animal trials...think of all the stuff that burns the animal's eyes/skin which some lab person records as being too damaging for commercial use!!!:o

Precisely Emma! :mad:

How should they test things?

Perhaps the manufacturers of "natural" products would be the best people to answer that question Diamondgirl. How do they know that products are safe without resorting to animal testing? Maybe they used willing volunteers? People usually get paid for taking part in trials of new products, both cosmetic and medical.

Even in the case of medicinal treatments, it has to be tested on a human before being released. There was a relatively recent case of a medical trial that left people seriously ill and it's probably not the first of it's kind. That's after the products have been tested on animals, but there will always be a risk of things going wrong, because animals and humans aren't of the same make up.

Usually by human trials- chemicals can usually be tested on human tissues/tissue like material before going to a full human for safety reasons!

This website gives more information and an idea of why animal testing is not always good anyways as it can be inaccurate-

http://www.idausa.org/facts/costesting.html

It also says about a European ban on cosmetic animal testing in 2009, I have not heard of it yet but I checked it out on net and it seems to be accurate so thats good! Don't know if it's a full ban though anybody else heard about this??

Abit later...here is another one, a UK based site on animal testing, which gives anoverview of the whole process...

http://www.aboutanimaltesting.co.uk/animal-testing-cosmetics.html

Usually by human trials- chemicals can usually be tested on human tissues/tissue like material before going to a full human for safety reasons!

This website gives more information and an idea of why animal testing is not always good anyways as it can be inaccurate-

http://www.idausa.org/facts/costesting.html

It also says about a European ban on cosmetic animal testing in 2009, I have not heard of it yet but I checked it out on net and it seems to be accurate so thats good! Don't know if it's a full ban though anybody else heard about this??

I'll go and have a look at the link, no, heard nothing of a ban on cosmetic testing at all, but like you I'd be pleased.

Here's a link to the case of the disastrous clinic trial I referred to earlier.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4808836.stm

Thanks for the link Fishpole yeah I remember this one being in the news "the elephant people". This was a medical drug rather than a cosmetic product and as my earlier comment states I think it's hypocritical to be completely against this if you have EVER taken any form of medication or had any medical care (even down to anesthetics) as all drugs have to be tested on animals by UK law. I still think a lot more could be done to change the way medical tests are run rather than using so many animals as there are countless cases like the one above where things have gone wrong in human trials because as you said each species vary tremendously in thier phschology and physiology.

As I have said earlier I dont buy any animal tested products, cosmetics, bathroom products, fragrances, washing/cleaning products etc. I am not on any medication thankfully, but have recieved medication in hospital in the past which I know was probably tested on animals. If my son needed medication, then I would give it him... so maybe I am a hypocrite too?

I have no choice in that, as I would not see my son suffer due to my beliefs but I can have a say in non essential items, which I refuse to buy as they are just that, non essential.

I completely agree with Gemima, I try to make the best choices when out shopping. I'd be very suprised if even an animal extremist would sacrifice thier child for thier beliefs in animal rights.

Thanks for the link Fishpole yeah I remember this one being in the news "the elephant people". This was a medical drug rather than a cosmetic product and as my earlier comment states I think it's hypocritical to be completely against this if you have EVER taken any form of medication or had any medical care (even down to anesthetics) as all drugs have to be tested on animals by UK law. I still think a lot more could be done to change the way medical tests are run rather than using so many animals as there are countless cases like the one above where things have gone wrong in human trials because as you said each species vary tremendously in thier phschology and physiology.

For sure, I was just highlighting an example of how the positive results of animal testing can have an entirely different impact during a human trial. I haven't looked into whether there have been any adverse effects of human trials of natural cosmetics. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.

As I have said earlier I dont buy any animal tested products, cosmetics, bathroom products, fragrances, washing/cleaning products etc. I am not on any medication thankfully, but have recieved medication in hospital in the past which I know was probably tested on animals. If my son needed medication, then I would give it him... so maybe I am a hypocrite too?

I have no choice in that, as I would not see my son suffer due to my beliefs but I can have a say in non essential items, which I refuse to buy as they are just that, non essential.

No, I don't think you are a hypocrite, Gemima. You have the interests of your child at heart.

I endeavour to buy cosmetics and detergents that have not involved animal cruelty.

However as someone with a number of conditions that will need lifelong medication (diabetes and thyroid problems to name but two) it is a sad fact that the medications I need to keep me alive, by law have had to involve animal testing.

I personally am not happy about that, and would far prefer that animals had not been used, but the realist in me says that, in the case of medications, it's necessary until a satisfactory alternative becomes available.

I put the lists on here over a year ago from the Peta site but not many people were interested .

I try not to use Unilever as they are a subsidiary of P &G, most of the soap powders are made by them. I try to use co-op.

M and s have a 2006 cut off date for their make up.
http://www.naturewatch.org/news/M_and_S.asp
As someone may have probably already stated, you have to be careful because some companies say they dont test, but the ingredients they order in for their products from other places might have been tested on animals. I saw a web site once showing the things they do to white rabbits, Beagle dogs, baby monkeys etc, it was horrific and all in the name of vanity for humans.
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