Two weeks ago I left my job. All done properly with notice period served etc. Today I received a letter from my ex-employer saying that "an overpayment of £X has been made to you... this amount will need to be repaid, you should forward a cheque to..." (where X represents about a third of my monthly pay!)
They've not explained how/when/why the "overpayment" was made. I don't have the money to pay back (and can't work out how they think they've overpaid me). Can they chase me for it? Should I just ignore the request? What's everyone think?

You will have to pay it back, write back and ask them to detail how the overpayment arose, and check your payslips etc and make sure you agree the amount though first

If the letter they sent is arsy i would drag my feet, ie do all correspondence via letter and ask alot of questions :P

Can't make you pay it back = what they gonna do take you to court - unless it's for thousands i don't think so=== tell em to coco.........

Tell em you've spent it and can pay em back at £1 a month....!!

:o :o :o
Wat a £1 a month I think that is a bit steep

15p a week and be grateful for that and I would demand a written receipt every payment as well

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Will you ever need to use them as a reference? If so, pay em back, if you can do without the privilege be as arsey as you like.

(my hubby's advice btw)

I think the main thing to do is drag your feet. Write back, by letter, yes I know, it's antiquated but it gives you breathing space, and ask for a complete breakdown of why they think you owe them money.

When they respond, write back again and ask them if they have included your statutory holiday pay, including bank holiday entitlements.

Keep all correspondance and eventually, some time in 2006, take it all to the citizens' advice bureau. Or preferably, if you belong to a union in your new place, ask for the free legal advice available to all union members.

Cheers for that. Think I'll write them a letter in about 3 weeks asking them to break it down and ask why it took 7 weeks from the day I handed my Notice in for them to get their records/systems in order. Don't think I'll put a stamp on the letter either - can't see why I should have to pay postage to help them sort out their mess.
If I do owe them money (which I'm by no means convinced I do) then they'll have to make do with a very small amount of it each month as I just can't get my hands on the sum they're talking about.
Geez, a company that can't even keep track of how much they're paying employees? SOOOO glad I got out....

the only problem with overpayment is that a third party could ask if you realised you were overpaid.on one occasion my wife was overpaid by about £30 and the following month her employer claimed it back from her.we knew what her pay packet should have been so she felt a it guilty by not telling them their oversight first.

Someone has probably made an error and so that by no means entitles you to stoop to another level. Unless you are already that kind of person. Everyone makes mistakes...were you always punished for yours? Or are you a fair and easy-going person? Would you want back an overpayment you made to an organisation who treated you with the same disrespect back? Don't forget, what goes around comes around. And yes, the reference is might important..unless you weren't there long enough or aren't good enough to get a decent reference anyway?? Surely you are now working for a decent employer who will seek out your references?? Remeber, you are on probation and so if anyhting unsightly comes back in that time they don;t need to be specific as to why you are 'Unsuitable for the job'!
And how come you got no wage slip???????? How come you are asking the forum about overpayment and not about why your employer doesn't give you a wage slip...especially your last one...and your P45 for your new employer???? Usually with or follows the wage slip. Your wage slip details your final payment. I would take a guess that it's probably mis-calculated holiday pay or something like that. And you also say its a large sum....Are we supposed to believe you didn't notice this? If a bank cash machine pays you more cash than you asked and you take and spend it it IS tantamount to theft..and this is pretty much similar so yes, a third party (the judge) will know you don't expect a large overpayment. And the main thing..why drag your feet....surely you are RIGHT and they are WRONG and 10 mins on a calculator with them in the office will prove your point???????????
Mmmmmmm......I think you're asking us...can I get away with this or not!!!
Why don't you ask yourself.....Is this the kind of person I have become? Am I a good employee..or a deceitful, awkward one??
Sort yourself out and go and sort the problem out...if you find they are right then offer back £50 a month; they will accept as it would cost more in court costs. Unless they really despise you anyway in which case they might afford and want to pay the court costs and you will have a judgement on you for 6 years and you will probably have to declare this to your future employers (if they are decent, that is, during their recruitment selection) and also it would affect your credit rating.

If they are wrong and you are proved right.....you could have saved time visitng the forum by visiting them first...you haven't even shown us you have given them a chance to prove it either
way. What kind of person are you?

I wonder if you might let us know the real outcome!

oooooooooohhhhhh! well, that's told you, hotphil :P

Lol...and i'm not supposed to be working today!!!

I worked for the DWP for over 6 months.

Every month I told my line manager I had been overpaid (I was being paid london weighting).

Nothing ever happened until after I left when the DWP demanded a repayment of my overpayment.

Seeing as they have been well aware of the situation from the outset, I feel no compusion to act immediately.

But an overpayment is an overpayment and must, eventually, at £5 a week, be paid back.

Since the DWP has a National Overpayment Unit, one can only assume they have a big problem with this - apparently overpayments of £20,000 and more are not uncommon.

well your case is different in that you made them aware from the off; you were happy to sort the problem out knowing it wasn't right to accept but none-the-less you could hardly pop it back into their petty cash tin either!! I personally would have saved that amount each month until they asked for it. Did you write to head office or was it just verbal to your own manager/hr dept?

They want something from you (the money). So you want to make the process of them getting it, as painful, tedious and convoluted as possible. It just won't be worth their time and energy to pursue the matter. Don't give them all your 'hurdles' on day one, drip feed them one by one. Bore the socks off them. Bla Bla Bla.

Yeah ... you could do all that ... but on the other hand ...

If your employer was good and fair with you. You may consider it a decent and respectful thing to pay back the money (assuming you had a good professional relationship with them).

Paying the money back will only help to boost your reputation and make you feel good about yourself (i.e. "yes I am a decent fair and honest person"). Not paying it back may lead you to a self belief that you're a crooked person.

There is a lot to consider here ... and your actions will have hidden implications in that you're sending a message to yourself about the kind of person you are.

It comes down to what you value more ... your bank account OR your character and integrity ... the choice is entirely yours.

:)

you certainly seem to have leapt to a lot of conclusions here.

Firstly hotphil said that he doesn't understand how he has been overpaid. Until this is satisfactoraly explained he's under no obligation to do anything and isn't acting dishonestly by asking for a full explanation.
He never said anything about not recieving a payslip, did you just make that up?
Then you go on to accuse him of trying to get away with it and imply that he's dishonest. I think you need to calm and down and read the posts again.
The way I read it was that hotphil doesn't believe he has been overpaid (and we have no reason to call him a liar, unless you know something we don't) and that since he doesn't believe he owes them any money he won't be rushing to help them out, which sounds fair enough to me.

Originally posted by Natane
Someone has probably made an error and so that by no means entitles you to stoop to another level. Unless you are already that kind of person. Everyone makes mistakes...were you always punished for yours? Or are you a fair and easy-going person? Would you want back an overpayment you made to an organisation who treated you with the same disrespect back? Don't forget, what goes around comes around. And yes, the reference is might important..unless you weren't there long enough or aren't good enough to get a decent reference anyway?? Surely you are now working for a decent employer who will seek out your references?? Remeber, you are on probation and so if anyhting unsightly comes back in that time they don;t need to be specific as to why you are 'Unsuitable for the job'!
And how come you got no wage slip???????? How come you are asking the forum about overpayment and not about why your employer doesn't give you a wage slip...especially your last one...and your P45 for your new employer???? Usually with or follows the wage slip. Your wage slip details your final payment. I would take a guess that it's probably mis-calculated holiday pay or something like that. And you also say its a large sum....Are we supposed to believe you didn't notice this? If a bank cash machine pays you more cash than you asked and you take and spend it it IS tantamount to theft..and this is pretty much similar so yes, a third party (the judge) will know you don't expect a large overpayment. And the main thing..why drag your feet....surely you are RIGHT and they are WRONG and 10 mins on a calculator with them in the office will prove your point???????????
Mmmmmmm......I think you're asking us...can I get away with this or not!!!
Why don't you ask yourself.....Is this the kind of person I have become? Am I a good employee..or a deceitful, awkward one??
Sort yourself out and go and sort the problem out...if you find they are right then offer back £50 a month; they will accept as it would cost more in court costs. Unless they really despise you anyway in which case they might afford and want to pay the court costs and you will have a judgement on you for 6 years and you will probably have to declare this to your future employers (if they are decent, that is, during their recruitment selection) and also it would affect your credit rating.

If they are wrong and you are proved right.....you could have saved time visitng the forum by visiting them first...you haven't even shown us you have given them a chance to prove it either
way. What kind of person are you?

I wonder if you might let us know the real outcome!

Originally posted by Cyclone
Firstly hotphil said that he doesn't understand how he has been overpaid. Until this is satisfactoraly explained he's under no obligation to do anything and isn't acting dishonestly by asking for a full explanation.

Yes I'd fully agree with you there Cyclone.

His first action should be to ask for explaination and details of what is owed.

Sorry but for a morning that was a bit harsh - has someone got out of the wrong side of bed this morning? He's only asking peoples advice dont bite his head off.

isn't this a forum where we can all voice our thoughts and opinions?? like I said; the person is asking us instead of checking it out with them...he's the one who thinks he's been paid correctly. we are throwing in different angles that he can consider. I got out the right side of my bed..it's my birthday and i'm happy! i don't think we should all come on this forum and make the same agreements and neither should we encourage a person not to do the right thing...surely we have their best interests at heart??? don't be so rose-tinted glassed about this. it's serious business not paying back what COULD be owed. we are saying check it out then pending the outcome, take the RIGHT steps to solve the problem. what is wrong with that??

Phil,

Unfortunately the bad news is that you have to return the overpayment to your previous employer. The good news is that by sending you a letter saying that they overpaid you they have effectively admitted it was their fault. As such, you are well within your legal rights to stipulate the terms of your repayment plan (I would suggest perhaps £5-£10 a week). This will demonstrate your willingness to repay the money whilst ensuring that you're not being left too short.

I'm sure that you did not know of the overpayment - after all, who knows exactly how much is in their bank accounts at any given time? The best course of action is just to repay the money over a set period - think of it as an interest free loan!

Originally posted by Natane
isn't this a forum where we can all voice our thoughts and opinions?? like I said; the person is asking us instead of checking it out with them...he's the one who thinks he's been paid correctly. we are throwing in different angles that he can consider. I got out the right side of my bed..it's my birthday and i'm happy! i don't think we should all come on this forum and make the same agreements and neither should we encourage a person not to do the right thing...surely we have their best interests at heart??? don't be so rose-tinted glassed about this. it's serious business not paying back what COULD be owed. we are saying check it out then pending the outcome, take the RIGHT steps to solve the problem. what is wrong with that??

you virtually accused him of being a liar and trying to work out how to keep the money.
He was simply asking for advice on what steps to take next, not asking for a character assasination. If it were me i'd be pretty ****** off about what your wrote and your wild assumptions.
What was the nonesense about not receiving a pay slip, he never said that, you just made it up.

Originally posted by JonJParr
Phil,

Unfortunately the bad news is that you have to return the overpayment to your previous employer. The good news is that by sending you a letter saying that they overpaid you they have effectively admitted it was their fault. As such, you are well within your legal rights to stipulate the terms of your repayment plan (I would suggest perhaps £5-£10 a week). This will demonstrate your willingness to repay the money whilst ensuring that you're not being left too short.

I'm sure that you did not know of the overpayment - after all, who knows exactly how much is in their bank accounts at any given time? The best course of action is just to repay the money over a set period - think of it as an interest free loan!

everyone is assuming that the employer can make a mistake and overpay, but that they never make a mistake and claim that they overpaid when they didn't.

He shouldn't be repaying anything until he is happy that he was actually overpaid.

Based on the responses to this thread I might send you all a letter saying that i overpaid you, you all seem to be perfectly happy to take someone else's word for it (on hotphils behalf) and just get on with paying it back.
So let's say £10 each, you can send me a personal cheque, no cash in the post please.

I believe I said ...could, if, possibly.....and the pay slip.....made it up???? made an assumption yes, because if he HAD a pay slip, it would detail the breakdown would it not? He states he cannot see where he has been overpaid. ie if he had a pay slip one would think he would have mentioned that his pay slip showed the payments were right or wrong. No? Yes?

don't be so rose-tinted glassed about this.

Im not at all i just think when you are on an open forum you need to think i little before what you say as it can come across to strongly in which this case it did.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion but just chill out on the rants...

ps happy birthday ;-)

Originally posted by Cyclone
everyone is assuming that the employer can make a mistake and overpay, but that they never make a mistake and claim that they overpaid when they didn't.

He shouldn't be repaying anything until he is happy that he was actually overpaid.

Based on the responses to this thread I might send you all a letter saying that i overpaid you, you all seem to be perfectly happy to take someone else's word for it (on hotphils behalf) and just get on with paying it back.
So let's say £10 each, you can send me a personal cheque, no cash in the post please.

A good point Cyclone however, most HR departments keep extremely detailed records of pay (for audit purposes) and unless the amount is large are loathed to demand repayment. For this reason it's unlikely that the letter was automatically generated. It's probably been done by a HR manager after checking, double checking and then triple checking the figures. But that's not to say they always get it right.

it wold also help if he who posts a thread can keep an eye on the replies he's waiting for to guide us on our comments, as it is we are making some assumptions based on a couple of comments and if he were able to answer some of our questions to him, we wouldn't be making some assumptions. it's no good throwing a thread on here asking a question like that and not being around to answer the incoming comments from us all. so yes, however I think he he will get the idea that he either has to go back and sort it one way or another. however, what we are saying is NOT to drag his feet (which he suggested earlier) and span it out simply as this might tar his character re; references for the future or indeed his new employer (as they often seek out ref' from your previous employer once you have started, not always before you start!). so again, trying to say be careful how you deal with it now as well as when it is identified who is at fault. again, best interests here.

Originally posted by Natane
I believe I said ...could, if, possibly.....and the pay slip.....made it up???? made an assumption yes, because if he HAD a pay slip, it would detail the breakdown would it not? He states he cannot see where he has been overpaid. ie if he had a pay slip one would think he would have mentioned that his pay slip showed the payments were right or wrong. No? Yes?

maybe he meant, "I have examined my payslip and cannot find a point where my pay is higher than expected". He just condensed it into "I can't work out how they think they've overpaid me".

you said
And how come you got no wage slip???????? How come you are asking the forum about overpayment and not about why your employer doesn't give you a wage slip...especially your last one...and your P45 for your new employer???? Usually with or follows the wage slip. Your wage slip details your final payment. I would take a guess that it's probably mis-calculated holiday pay or something like that. And you also say its a large sum....Are we supposed to believe you didn't notice this?
I don't see any 'could, if or possibly' in that tirade.

and this is just getting rather personal
I think you're asking us...can I get away with this or not!!!
Why don't you ask yourself.....Is this the kind of person I have become? Am I a good employee..or a deceitful, awkward one??
Sort yourself out and go and sort the problem out...
you haven't even shown us you have given them a chance to prove it either way. What kind of person are you?

It might have been quicker if you'd just said "hotphil, you are lying and just want to steal the money, if I could i'd shop you myself and see you thrown in jail to rot, you are evil and despicable"

Originally posted by Cyclone
Based on the responses to this thread I might send you all a letter saying that i overpaid you, you all seem to be perfectly happy to take someone else's word for it (on hotphils behalf) and just get on with paying it back.
So let's say £10 each, you can send me a personal cheque, no cash in the post please.

Your logic is flawed ...

Unlike hot phil's boss ... you never made a payment to us in the first place ... so how could you have overpaid us !?

Also ... I agreed with you !

His first step should be to get some kind of clarification explanaition and details of what's been overpaid.

Originally posted by Jamie
Your logic is flawed ...

Unlike hot phil's boss ... you never made a payment to us in the first place ... so how could you have overpaid us !?

Also ... I agreed with you !

His first step should be to get some kind of clarification explanaition and details of what's been overpaid.

maybe you are mistaken, afterall, as someone who might send you a letter demanding money there is clearly no chance that i would be at fault :P

sorry - yes, i know some of you agreed, so you guys don't have to send me £10. Everyone else should be aware that they are now accruing interest on the £10 owed, it now stands at £11.15, please pay promptly to avoid court action.

Originally posted by Cyclone
It might have been quicker if you'd just said "hotphil, you are lying and just want to steal the money, if I could i'd shop you myself and see you thrown in jail to rot, you are evil and despicable"

Perhaps you two should just shake hands? I'm sure Phil is capable of defending himself and his forthcoming actions.

look here folks, its pretty clear that he has decided that even though he could be wrong (and indeed right) he is going to drag it out merely because he can!! where is the fairness in that?? that is why I have been a little harsh. he is wanting someone out here to justify his actions...we didn not see him stating his options...merely the option of not paying it back for as long as he can, if ever. if he were 100% certain he is right he wold be down there proving them wrong! Come on Cyclone, get a grip...i have staff and they would come and sort it out straight away, even if they had just left. They're good decent people, that's why. Again, I agree a monthly fee if it can't be repaid in full. That's definately fair enough on both sides.

Originally posted by Natane
look here folks, its pretty clear that he has decided that even though he could be wrong (and indeed right) he is going to drag it out merely because he can!! where is the fairness in that?? that is why I have been a little harsh. he is wanting someone out here to justify his actions...we didn not see him stating his options...merely the option of not paying it back for as long as he can, if ever. if he were 100% certain he is right he wold be down there proving them wrong! Come on Cyclone, get a grip...i have staff and they would come and sort it out straight away, even if they had just left. They're good decent people, that's why. Again, I agree a monthly fee if it can't be repaid in full. That's definately fair enough on both sides.

and you didn't give the benefit of the doubt either way, you accused him of scheming to keep the money that he knew he'd been overpaid (despite his statement to the opposite), and said that he was dishonest and deceitful.

oh stop it, you are not reading a word of what i'm saying and explaining, you are simply trying to accuse me of being spiteful...which is silly of you. sorry to disappoint but you are not in a position to wind me up with your accusations. everyone reading this who is a manager or business owner will agree with me...and any employee who feels some kind of resentment or clearly doesn't play by the rules probably won't...I rest my case! Im off now to enjoy the rest of my birthday!!!:clap:

Originally posted by Natane
it wold also help if he who posts a thread can keep an eye on the replies he's waiting for.....it's no good throwing a thread on here asking a question like that and not being around to answer the incoming comments from us all.

:rolleyes: He posted last night and is (presumably) in work now :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Natane
isn't this a forum where we can all voice our thoughts and opinions?? the person is asking us instead of checking it out with them...he's the one who thinks he's been paid correctly.
If somebody were trying to rip you off, would you ask their opinion on how much they should rip you off by??? :confused:

And don't criticise anybody for asking for help on this forum. With over 10,000 users, there's usually somebody who's an expert in any field on here.


Hotphil has had other problems with this employer. Don't make assumptions - use 'search'

Originally posted by Natane
oh stop it, you are not reading a word of what i'm saying and explaining, you are simply trying to accuse me of being spiteful...which is silly of you. sorry to disappoint but you are not in a position to wind me up with your accusations. everyone reading this who is a manager or business owner will agree with me...and any employee who feels some kind of resentment or clearly doesn't play by the rules probably won't...I rest my case! Im off now to enjoy the rest of my birthday!!!:clap:

I certainly am reading your replies, i'm still waiting for one that contains an appology to hotphil. You rest your case, what case, there was no case, just a random bunch of accusations and assumptions. And we all know what 'assume' makes I presume.

Hold on, you accuse me of accusing you, I have evidence, you accused hotphil with nothing to back it up. Who's trying to wind who up here?

I doubt that anyone will agree with you, be they manager, employee or something else, you went totally of the deep end with absolutely nothing to back up what you were saying.

Maybe you could go and sack someone, you'd probably enjoy your birthday more then.

and who said I wasn't an expert??????? Legalities or not, there is an element of respect and self-respect caught up in this. He decided on his 2nd posting he wasn't going to give the employer a chance to explain or correct! Hence receiving a series of criticism.....what does he expect...a pat on the back.
Oh and Cyclone....aren't you supposed to wear yourself out at some point soon? Or do you continually blow hot air around???!!!!

Cyclone, I have had more PM's than Hotphil has had postings....telling me you always come on these threads arguing for the sake of it.....im being told to ignore you so thats what i will do...please go away now you have met your match!

Originally posted by Natane
and who said I wasn't an expert??????? :rant: Legalities or not, there is an element of respect and self-respect caught up in this. :rant: He decided on his 2nd posting he wasn't going to give the employer a chance to explain or correct! :rant: Hence receiving a series of criticism...:rant:..what does he expect.:rant:..a pat on the back.:rant:
Oh and Cyclone..:rant:..aren't you supposed to wear yourself out at some point soon? :rant: Or do you continually blow hot air around???!!!!:rant:

Somebody has hormone problems today :rolleyes:

Go away and stop being so offensive.

Originally posted by Natane
Cyclone, I have had more PM's than Hotphil has had postings....telling me you always come on these threads arguing for the sake of it.....im being told to ignore you so thats what i will do...please go away now you have met your match!

I should ask the person who sent you >770 pm's saying the same thing to stop pestering you.

I'll admit that i like a good discussion, it stops me getting bored at work, if I've 'met my match' then you would be able to actually make a point rather than resorting to petty insults.

He decided on his 2nd posting he wasn't going to give the employer a chance to explain or correct! Hence receiving a series of criticism
no, you're just plain wrong with that, maybe you should read more carefully. Here's hotphils 2nd post in full so you can have another go.
Originally posted by hotphil
Cheers for that. Think I'll write them a letter in about 3 weeks asking them to break it down and ask why it took 7 weeks from the day I handed my Notice in for them to get their records/systems in order. Don't think I'll put a stamp on the letter either - can't see why I should have to pay postage to help them sort out their mess.
If I do owe them money (which I'm by no means convinced I do) then they'll have to make do with a very small amount of it each month as I just can't get my hands on the sum they're talking about.
Geez, a company that can't even keep track of how much they're paying employees? SOOOO glad I got out....

Originally posted by Natane
Someone has probably made an error and so that by no means entitles you to stoop to another level.
Stoop to another level? What do you mean by that?
Unless you are already that kind of person.
What kind of person? A person who asks advice?
Everyone makes mistakes...were you always punished for yours?
Punishment? What has punishment got to do with anything?

Or are you a fair and easy-going person? Would you want back an overpayment you made to an organisation who treated you with the same disrespect back? Don't forget, what goes around comes around.

"What goes around comes around" - where has hotphil shown any disrespect to his former employer?

And yes, the reference is might important..unless you weren't there long enough or aren't good enough to get a decent reference anyway?? Surely you are now working for a decent employer who will seek out your references?? Remeber, you are on probation and so if anyhting unsightly comes back in that time they don;t need to be specific as to why you are 'Unsuitable for the job'!

Asking for details of an overpayment, rather than blithely writing a cheque for an arbitrary amount without question, is not going to make anyone "unworthy". If anything, doing so would inidicate a firm grasp of business realities. It is equally likely the request for repayment is a mistake. Why suffer for someone elses mistake?

And how come you got no wage slip????????
Does he mention anywhere not having a wage slip?
How come you are asking the forum about overpayment and not about why your employer doesn't give you a wage slip...especially your last one...and your P45 for your new employer????
Once again, you are making an unsupported assumption - hotphil does not specify whether he has these documents or not
Usually with or follows the wage slip. Your wage slip details your final payment. I would take a guess that it's probably mis-calculated holiday pay or something like that. And you also say its a large sum....Are we supposed to believe you didn't notice this?
Do you have some sort of vendetta against hotphil? I mean, he comes on here asking for some general advice cos his employer has sent him a surprise request for money which he isn't convinced he owes and you are treating him like a war criminal. If a bank cash machine pays you more cash than you asked and you take and spend it it IS tantamount to theft..and this is pretty much similar so yes, a third party (the judge) will know you don't expect a large overpayment.

has it occurred to you that he may have been overpaid a small amount repeatedly with each wage or salary payment? If he has been overpaid, and overpaid incrementally like this, there is no reason why a)he shouyld have noticed it and b)why he should have to pay it back all in one lump sum
And the main thing..why drag your feet....surely you are RIGHT and they are WRONG and 10 mins on a calculator with them in the office will prove your point???????????
why rush into things? especially where financial loss may be the result. Better to move slowly and plan ahead.

Mmmmmmm......I think you're asking us...can I get away with this or not!!!
Yes, I expect you do, but that has more to do with how you see others, rather than what the OP asked
....if you find they are right then offer back £50 a month; they will accept as it would cost more in court costs. Unless they really despise you anyway in which case they might afford and want to pay the court costs and you will have a judgement on you for 6 years and you will probably have to declare this to your future employers (if they are decent, that is, during their recruitment selection) and also it would affect your credit rating.

see. that was quite helpful, pity about the paragraphs of hectoring.

If they are wrong and you are proved right.....you could have saved time visitng the forum by visiting them first...you haven't even shown us you have given them a chance to prove it either
way. What kind of person are you?

He's someone who knows the value of a panoply of opinions (including yours)

I wonder if you might let us know the real outcome!
presumably as opposed to the false outcome?

Does anybody else suspect that Natane actually wrote the letter in Hotphil's posession? :suspect: :loopy: :hihi:

Perhaps Natane has been threatened with 'punishment' for settling Hotphil's outstanding payments without a fight (just adding in what we already know about his employer from previous threads)

Expert? I get the impression somebody might be a HR clerk :rolleyes:

Gosh. How a simple question can be made so complex.

Ok, I'll add my two penneth!! (with a bit of the HR factual stuff).

1. Employer is legally obliged to provide wage slip/envelope detailing pay. This should match any timesheets/clocking in etc you are required to fill in etc.

2. If leaves job, Employer is legally obliged to provide P45 (usually done before their next payment run)

3. If they have overpaid, they are not legally obliged to explain (the payslips should explain it) but it would be good practise to explain.

4. If they have overpaid, you have to pay back.

5. You become a debtor of their company and they could demand their monies back using County Court if necessary.

6. Don't assume that by offering £1 a week or whatever they will necessary accept that. If they do go to County Court and get judgement, besides being blacklisted for credit, you will also have to provide and income and expenditure statement proving that you can only afford £1 a week. You will also be responsible for any Court costs. Therefore if you do accept you have been overpaid, be reasonable in your suggestion for paying back.

7. Don't stress out about the reference bit. If your new employer seeks a reference then this information MUST BE FACTUAL. If they put, for instance, that your timekeeping was poor, they must be able to justify this if pressed. The Freedom of Information Act means that you are entitled to see your Personal File and all its contents including references. If a reference is particularly bad one and as a result you are not employed, there have been cases of employers being successfully sued because of it. We have a policy now of literally stating on a reference the dates that someone was employed from and to, the number of days they were absent (other than authorised holidays), and the breakdown of reasons for absence. Totally factual. We will not give information about what we think to their honesty, timekeeping, etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Strix
Does anybody else suspect that Natane actually wrote the letter in Hotphil's posession? :suspect: :loopy: :hihi:

Perhaps Natane has been threatened with 'punishment' for settling Hotphil's outstanding payments without a fight (just adding in what we already know about his employer from previous threads)

Expert? I get the impression somebody might be a HR clerk :rolleyes:

now, now. Don't be mean, or I might argue with you, then you receive over 770 pm's telling you that I like to argue and that you should ignore me :clap:

Originally posted by MobileB
3. If they have overpaid, they are not legally obliged to explain (the payslips should explain it) but it would be good practise to explain.


i'm puzzled by this one, on what basis are they no obliged to explain?

Maybe hotphil should send them a letter saying that he was underpaid and that he is not obliged to explain.

Originally posted by Cyclone
now, now. Don't be mean, or I might argue with you, then you receive over 770 pm's telling you that I like to argue and that you should ignore me :clap:

It's just a little odd that Natane is so emotive on this particular topic.

Interesting how the balance seems to be in support of Hotphil, contrary to Natane's predictions though ;)

Originally posted by MobileB
3. If they have overpaid, they are not legally obliged to explain (the payslips should explain it) but it would be good practise to explain.

So. Assuming the payslips tally with the amount paid into his account, there is no problem.

If the payslips and the cheques are for different amounts, then he owes them back.


I wouldn't trust a wages department who have already made one cock-up (in their own estimation)

Originally posted by Strix
So. Assuming the payslips tally with the amount paid into his account, there is no problem.

If the payslips and the cheques are for different amounts, then he owes them back.


I wouldn't trust a wages department who have already made one cock-up (in their own estimation)

Point 1 did say that wage slip should tally with the timesheet (or whatever he is required to complete). If the time sheet said he worked say 100 hours that month, but if the wage slip and the consequential payment was for 160 hours then they are entitled to claim this back. Don't necessarily blame the wages department either. They can often only process what information has been given to them.

Most large companies will have a department head of some kind complete a payroll sheet of some kind where hours are transferred from timesheets onto a summary. From my experience, this is where most mistakes are made.

I think MobileB has made it clear, which supprts what I have said. PS The Freedom of Information Act is only for Public Sector information, Data Protection is what you refer to.

FOI does indeed only refer to Public body information and certainly not to personal details (most of which are redacted from FOI released documents). These would have to be requested under Data Protection.

Originally posted by Natane
I think MobileB has made it clear, which supprts what I have said. PS The Freedom of Information Act is only for Public Sector information, Data Protection is what you refer to.

Sorry I did mean to put the Freedom of Information and Data Protection Acts but I was one step ahead of myself!!

Originally posted by MobileB
Point 1 did say that wage slip should tally with the timesheet (or whatever he is required to complete). If the time sheet said he worked say 100 hours that month, but if the wage slip and the consequential payment was for 160 hours then they are entitled to claim this back. Don't necessarily blame the wages department either. They can often only process what information has been given to them.

Most large companies will have a department head of some kind complete a payroll sheet of some kind where hours are transferred from timesheets onto a summary. From my experience, this is where most mistakes are made.

If they are not required to prove this to hotphil's satisfaction then it would be perfectly reasonable for him to refuse to pay. I expect a court would take a dim view of their refusal to make a settlement impossible without recourse to litigation. And they obviously would have to prove things in court.

Originally posted by Cyclone
If they are not required to prove this to hotphil's satisfaction then it would be perfectly reasonable for him to refuse to pay. I expect a court would take a dim view of their refusal to make a settlement impossible without recourse to litigation. And they obviously would have to prove things in court.

And a court would reasonably expect that if someone had been paid for 160 hours instead of 100, they would know that they have been overpaid for 60 hours. In the same way, if someone just happened to deposit £1000 into your bank account, you would be expected to check your statements and know this money had gone in by mistake. By all means, take the risk, but I know I wouldn't.

Personally, in this instance, he genuinely does not know how they have reached the conclusion that he has been overpaid. Therefore, a resonable course of action would be to write and ask them to explain the overpayment. If he feels the company have made a mistake, why drag his heels on writing this letter? If it did go as far as court then again, the questions would be asked why did it take him so long to write and a dim view undoubtedly would be taken.

By writing to them (and ensuring it goes guaranteed delivery), he is immediately putting the onus back on the Company.

Originally posted by MobileB
Point 1 did say that wage slip should tally with the timesheet (or whatever he is required to complete).

In which case they will be required to provide this information, as at the moment the payslip is probably the only info Hotphil has, and can therefore be assumed to be correct until proven otherwise

Originally posted by Strix
In which case they will be required to provide this information, as at the moment the payslip is probably the only info Hotphil has, and can therefore be assumed to be correct until proven otherwise

See my point in previous post.

But also, look at it the reverse way, if he had worked 160 hours and only paid for 100 would he notice and what would he do?

Originally posted by MobileB
See my point in previous post.

But also, look at it the reverse way, if he had worked 160 hours and only paid for 100 would he notice and what would he do?

It's probably a holiday payment problem (from what I remember) which is far harder for the employee to calculate. If you search Phil's posts from when he was leaving, there were issues then.

He has already stated that he doesn't believe the letter is correct, so there's no need for that tone from you.

Originally posted by MobileB
And a court would reasonably expect that if someone had been paid for 160 hours instead of 100, they would know that they have been overpaid for 60 hours. In the same way, if someone just happened to deposit £1000 into your bank account, you would be expected to check your statements and know this money had gone in by mistake. By all means, take the risk, but I know I wouldn't.

Personally, in this instance, he genuinely does not know how they have reached the conclusion that he has been overpaid. Therefore, a resonable course of action would be to write and ask them to explain the overpayment. If he feels the company have made a mistake, why drag his heels on writing this letter? If it did go as far as court then again, the questions would be asked why did it take him so long to write and a dim view undoubtedly would be taken.

By writing to them (and ensuring it goes guaranteed delivery), he is immediately putting the onus back on the Company.

re:1001/60 hrs - fair enough, but it doesn't sound like such a simple explanation is likely, since hotphil says he doesn't understand why they think they have overpaid him.

3 weeks would be considered dragging his heals when it took the company 7 weeks to contact him. Doesn't sound very balanced to me. He has another job now and things to do with his time that might mean fitting in an analysis of all past payslips quite difficult.

i think i will write to them tonight for an explanation. since day one there i have had to complete a paper timesheet and enter hours worked into a payroll system. both had to be authorised by a manager. pay slips always matched the amount paid. i left one day short of my notice period in agreement with the payroll department. i do not know when or how the error occurred. if they can prove i owe them money and threaten any kind of action then i will probably have to offer very small monthly installments to try and avoid it i guess.

in natane's defence (not that any is needed from a mere mortal)
but it should be obvious from payslips if there has been an overpayment & although you are not legallt obliged to notify your employer of a mistake you do have to repay it in full.
it could potentially be a tax issue with regards to change of coding or payment of tax credits that has casued a problem, and therefore it's not directly the employers fault.

The Tax issue is one I was going to point out. Should it turn out that you have been overpaid and you are going to re-pay it to your employer, then you will also need to return your P45 to them for updating as you will (most likely) have paid tax on the overpaid amount.

Let us know how you get on.

My ex employer did that with me and said they had overpaid me by £741 however i checked it and they were wrong and i was right.

They had in fact overpaid me by £22 bit od a difference

Make sure you check it first and pay back at 50 per week if its their fault.

At least you are making the effort and causing you some hardship

I got overpaid and I didn't realise, then the company asked for it back, after I had left.

I checked the law and I'm sure it said something like 'if you were unaware that you had been overpaid then you don't have to pay it back'.

Well anyway I ignored their one and only letter for the money back (it was about £70) and I've heard nothing more about it, that was 3 years ago.