The recent thread about the personalities we adopt on line contained some interesting posts about how our exterior selves may differ in relation to the situation. I wonder what, generally speaking, is the best type of personality to adopt when dealing with tradesmen?

I was explaining to a friend at the weekend about how I was being messed about by a building firm I had hired. His response was: ‘that’s because your too nice – they see you as a soft touch’. I thought he was probably right. If you are nice to tradesmen, many will take it as a sign of weakness.

I am sure that most people with properties have had problems with tradesmen of one kind or another – for example in getting them to turn up on the right day for an estimate; getting them to start on time –even before they have even started. This is not of course true of all tradesmen – many of course are no doubt reliable, honest and conscientious – but many are not. I have found builders and turdbuglars to be the most unreliable. Turdburglars in particular seem to be a breed with no concept of time where their customers are concerned. On the other hand, I’ve found sparkies to be on the whole reliable.

I have come to the conclusion that its best to adopt a tough, ‘no more Mr. nice guy’ approach to dealings with tradesmen. I know my ex-partner was somewhat contemptuous of my ineffectual and puerile attempts at complaining about bad or dilatory workmanship. She, on the other hand adopted an attack dog approach and was brilliant at getting results. – at the very least errant tradesmen could expect a thorough inspection of their work and a good verbal kicking and the threat of prompt legal action if anything was seriously wrong.

I have got so fed up with unreliable and poor service from tradesmen recently that I’ve decided to adopt a DIY approach as much as I can – on the principle that if you want anything doing properly, do it yourself . Of course, there is the issue of the time lost in DIY – but offset this against the time lost in getting estimates, waiting for tradesmen to turn up, getting things ready for them, making them tea, and the risk of leaving people who are almost strangers alone in your house etc and the time factor doesn’t seem quite so decisive.

In a few words: whatever level they are at, you should adopt.

I had a couple of youngish cold callers from a DOuble Glazing company accost me on Saturday afternoon.

I was very relaxed and to be honest was taken rather by surprise, and the pair of squits just would not leave the doorstep until I answered some survey questions!! I was VERY upset with msyelf, and my equilibrium was rather destroyed for the rest of the day.

Anyway, I rang their company and suggested that should they ever darken my doorstep again they would not be welcome. Why it wound me up I don't know; I just felt quite stressed!

Maybe before the next lot come I should ferment a special vat of cat pee for use as sales people repellant....:D

Joe

I adopt the school mistress approach :D

I always make sure I have an understanding of the job required, it's more difficult for them to flannel you then. Introduce the job in a knowledgable fashion, and if you don't like the response, take your custom elsewhere.

Tea should always be on hand, and can be used as a measuring stick, and I have to admit to being a 'shadow' when anybody is tampering with my house. All tradesmen hate this, but as I am not your stereotypical housewife and have tradesmen in the family (so understand the level of destruction required to achieve great things), they usually relent and are happy to explain as they go. Any who don't usually have something to hide :mad:

I had an electrician turn up to assess a job for the next day one evening. He told me his brother was coming up and they were going out. His wife rang the next day to say he was ill. I was unsympathetic, and said I would see him when his hangover was wearing off (nothing she could say to that, and she agreed).

He arrived well past lunchtime and tried to fob me off with 'better starting tomorrow'. I said I'd phone his boss for a replacement (today) as that would put other trades back who had no slack in their diary.

He went pale and fetched his tool box. I kept him supplied with all sorts of liquid, but watched every move he made and was firmly civil with him. The job got done. :thumbsup:

Be a Pro and you will do just fine:
1. Get several estimates.
2. Require that they list in detail the labour and material costs separately.
3. Before selecting a company ask for references and review the references carefully. ( Do a site inspection of finished work if possible.)
4. Ask references if the work was done to their satisfaction. If the work was completed on time. If there were any cost overruns, what they were and why they occured.
5. Put together a written agreement that states when the work shall begin and end, when payment will be made (ie do not give all the money up front unless you want trouble), stipulate that only top quality materials shall be used, work shall be completed within acceptable trade standards, and at what points inspections shall be made (ex. if building a particial wall, look at it before it is covered with drywall)
6. If possible hire an independent inspector before having repairs done or to do new constuction inspections. (Talk with your insurance agent...they should have a list of top-notch inspectors.) This will save you a lot of headaches.
7. If they do not meet expectations. Withhold payment by all means.
8. Professionals should have no problem with what you will ask and may help you along the way for repeat business.

That sounds like a lot of trouble for a couple of tap washers. :thumbsup:

I think having a good understanding of what you want doing is key.
If you know what is involved and what result you want then there is little room for fobbing.
The other key thing is that once you've found a good company or person, use them the next time you need something doing.

Originally posted by Strix
I adopt the school mistress approach :D

I always make sure I have an understanding of the job required, it's more difficult for them to flannel you then. Introduce the job in a knowledgable fashion, and if you don't like the response, take your custom elsewhere.

Tea should always be on hand, and can be used as a measuring stick, and I have to admit to being a 'shadow' when anybody is tampering with my house. All tradesmen hate this, but as I am not your stereotypical housewife and have tradesmen in the family (so understand the level of destruction required to achieve great things), they usually relent and are happy to explain as they go. Any who don't usually have something to hide :mad:

I had an electrician turn up to assess a job for the next day one evening. He told me his brother was coming up and they were going out. His wife rang the next day to say he was ill. I was unsympathetic, and said I would see him when his hangover was wearing off (nothing she could say to that, and she agreed).

He arrived well past lunchtime and tried to fob me off with 'better starting tomorrow'. I said I'd phone his boss for a replacement (today) as that would put other trades back who had no slack in their diary.

He went pale and fetched his tool box. I kept him supplied with all sorts of liquid, but watched every move he made and was firmly civil with him. The job got done. :thumbsup:

I think women tend to be better at this sort of thing than men. Its probably because women tend to be nest builders and want their nests to be just right. Men on the other hand may tend to look for the cheapest, quickest solution, so that they have more money to spend on hi fi or cars etc. A classic example of this syndrome was the Fawlty Towers episode about the builder. Basil hired an incompetent guy because he was cheap. Sybil came home, promptly thumped Basil and sacked the incompetent builder. She then rang up a competent, more expensive, building firm and hired them.

Originally posted by Cyclone
The other key thing is that once you've found a good company or person, use them the next time you need something doing.

Maybe we should have a 'Reccomended Tradesmen' forum - You could leave glowing references for good ones, and post warnings if you get ripped off??

We could extend it to Garages, Repair men, decorators etc etc....

Wheres all the skilled labour gone! It so difficult to find genuine skilled labour i.e. people who do the job right....

Even if you pay top noch it doesnt mean you get that...

Are we moving in to a new era or the old era - of the "cow boy"...

People dont mind paying good rates for quality....
But paying good rates for crap is another thing...

hence - wheres all the skilled labour gone
or as they say - "they dont make em like they used to"

Sorry to drag -

I have had several 'bad experiences', as they are known in common parlance, with our dear tradesmen friends. My strategy these days, is to remain aloof and slightly impatient. I do not want them to relax in my company, or take social liberties. I want them to think that I will check everything they have done in triplicate, that I am unforgiving of fools and shoddy workmanship.

In my experience, many tradesmen think their customers are complete fools. It is a mistake to try to banter with them , on their social level. This will only increase their secret contempt for the customer, as so many of them seem to equate friendliness with weakness.

Supply free hot, running water, tea and coffee by all means. It would be un-English and terribly churlish not to. One may throw in the odd biscuit too, but it must always be a plain one [Sports biscuits will be received favourably], never anything sophisticated, elaborate or chocolatey. As for Bath Olivers and Garibaldi biscuits; comment would be superfluous. I once gave tradesmen working upon my roof some Gypsy Creams, which they mocked behind my back as 'hoity-toity', referring to me as 'Little Lord Fauntleroy'. Never again.

Tradesmen are a necessary evil. To paraphrase Kipling, they are 'half devil, half child'. Never trust them, never lower one's guard, never turn one's back. The richer they think you are, the more they will charge. The irony being, of course, that they are all rich themselves thanks to all the nefarious 'foreigners' they engage in. Where their parents could hope for a weekend in Blackpool at best, they spend weeks on end in the Caribbean. One even encounters them in the casinos of Monte Carlo and the Racecourses of Europe. Sun-tanned, dressed in Armani, they hail one, 'Ey up, dint ah unblock your drains, mate?' No, one should always retain a social distance with these money-grubbing, impertinent hobbledehoys.

Originally posted by timo
I have had several 'bad experiences', as they are known in common parlance, with our dear tradesmen friends. My strategy these days, is to remain aloof and slightly impatient. I do not want them to relax in my company, or take social liberties. I want them to think that I will check everything they have done in triplicate, that I am unforgiving of fools and shoddy workmanship.

In my experience, many tradesmen think their customers are complete fools. It is a mistake to try to banter with them , on their social level. This will only increase their secret contempt for the customer, as so many of them seem to equate friendliness with weakness.

Supply free hot, running water, tea and coffee by all means. It would be un-English and terribly churlish not to. One may throw in the odd biscuit too, but it must always be a plain one [Sports biscuits will be received favourably], never anything sophisticated, elaborate or chocolatey. As for Bath Olivers and Garibaldi biscuits; comment would be superfluous. I once gave tradesmen working upon my roof some Gypsy Creams, which they mocked behind my back as 'hoity-toity', referring to me as 'Little Lord Fauntleroy'. Never again.

Tradesmen are a necessary evil. To paraphrase Kipling, they are 'half devil, half child'. Never trust them, never lower one's guard, never turn one's back. The richer they think you are, the more they will charge. The irony being, of course, that they are all rich themselves thanks to all the nefarious 'foreigners' they engage in. Where their parents could hope for a weekend in Blackpool at best, they spend weeks on end in the Caribbean. One even encounters them in the casinos of Monte Carlo and the Racecourses of Europe. Sun-tanned, dressed in Armani, they hail one, 'Ey up, dint ah unblock your drains, mate?' No, one should always retain a social distance with these money-grubbing, impertinent hobbledehoys. Looking at the above post is it any wonder that the middle classes get the pi.. taken out of them by tradesmen?

Dragonsoup,
LOL. Dripping with chippy cynicism, you see 'middle class' prissiness where there is sly humour, and mistake multi-layered irony for gaucheness. Are you of tradesman stock? The Sheffield examples are particularly amusing, with their 'slow-timing', bluff cynicism ['Ah talk me mind, me'- in other words, he is selfishly rude], and touching lack of social skills bordering upon shyness, when not within their own miserable peer group.

As for 'taking the pi', as you so elegantly phrase it, it is who laughs longest that counts, to coin a cliche. I recall some clever gentlemen who thought it a hoot to make a mess of my roof in Lancashire [I am a Sheffield ex-pat]. This was an insurance job of a few years ago, and, strangely enough, the insurance company used a Sheffield firm. How the men tittered as they jammed tiles in, without bothering to secure them properly. Unfortunately for them, they picked the wrong kind of 'middle class' victim. After a complaint, their boss promptly sacked the pair of them. I received compensation, and a better firm did the job properly. 'Taking the pi' backfires sometimes, old bean.

Originally posted by timo
Supply free hot, running water, tea and coffee by all means. It would be un-English and terribly churlish not to. One may throw in the odd biscuit too, but it must always be a plain one [Sports biscuits will be received favourably]

also, putting a paper doiley under the biscuits or suggesting they take their shirts off if they get too hot seems to get the job done much quicker, they can't wait to get out of the house, for some reason.

Nick,
LOL. Yes, I can imagine that would terrify the average tradesman.
I recall an amusing incident, when my wife and I lived briefly in Nottingham. We were having a new fireplace put into our then house in Sherwood. The tradesman doing the job was on all fours, [it resembled 'display behaviour' in the lower primates], busy at work. Unfortunately, we then had a very large, heavy Labrador dog which seemed to be on permanent 'heat'. Seeing the workman in such an 'inviting' position, 'Basil' promptly seized him by the hips and attempted to mount him. I can honestly say that I had never before heard such an outraged scream of terror from a human being. For one brief, terrible moment I think the tradesman thought I was the excited offender rather than 'Basil'.

Originally posted by nick2
also, putting a paper doiley under the biscuits or suggesting they take their shirts off if they get too hot seems to get the job done much quicker, they can't wait to get out of the house, for some reason.

I don't think I'll try that :suspect: I'm not sure it'll have the desired effect :rolleyes:

Originally posted by LordChaverly
The recent thread about the personalities we adopt on line contained some interesting posts about how our exterior selves may differ in relation to the situation. I wonder what, generally speaking, is the best type of personality to adopt when dealing with tradesmen?

I was explaining to a friend at the weekend about how I was being messed about by a building firm I had hired. His response was: ‘that’s because your too nice – they see you as a soft touch’. I thought he was probably right. If you are nice to tradesmen, many will take it as a sign of weakness.

I am sure that most people with properties have had problems with tradesmen of one kind or another – for example in getting them to turn up on the right day for an estimate; getting them to start on time –even before they have even started. This is not of course true of all tradesmen – many of course are no doubt reliable, honest and conscientious – but many are not. I have found builders and turdbuglars to be the most unreliable. Turdburglars in particular seem to be a breed with no concept of time where their customers are concerned. On the other hand, I’ve found sparkies to be on the whole reliable.

I have come to the conclusion that its best to adopt a tough, ‘no more Mr. nice guy’ approach to dealings with tradesmen. I know my ex-partner was somewhat contemptuous of my ineffectual and puerile attempts at complaining about bad or dilatory workmanship. She, on the other hand adopted an attack dog approach and was brilliant at getting results. – at the very least errant tradesmen could expect a thorough inspection of their work and a good verbal kicking and the threat of prompt legal action if anything was seriously wrong.

I have got so fed up with unreliable and poor service from tradesmen recently that I’ve decided to adopt a DIY approach as much as I can – on the principle that if you want anything doing properly, do it yourself . Of course, there is the issue of the time lost in DIY – but offset this against the time lost in getting estimates, waiting for tradesmen to turn up, getting things ready for them, making them tea, and the risk of leaving people who are almost strangers alone in your house etc and the time factor doesn’t seem quite so decisive. Humour !!! red