I just got a 20M Telephone Extension Kit - Im aware it should run no more than 10M (This shouldnt be a problem), but before I start cutting the cable and wiring it up it says (Not suitable for ADSL Extensions)!.

Anyone know why? - Its a Philex Kit, with a Box to screw onto the wall as an extension - and a Cable I have to wire into the box - on the other end is the standard telephone plug. There are 4 wires to do (Yellow, green, black and red)

I was going to have my ADSL router on the end of this.
I had one at my old house (slightly different) - this didnt have a extension socket box tho - just a small plug in jack.

Thanks

I wonder if it is referring to extending the cable between the router and phone line (ADSL Cable)
My guess is if you extend your Phone line then at the new end of it add your adsl filter and adsl cable to plug into router and all will be good

Ha - cheers fella
Your bang right - I didnt even think about that.

Cheers mate

This will likeley cause stability issues, and lower speed, I would be surprised if it doesn't.

I very much doubt broadband speed will be affected by extending a phone line 20M or so.....

as long as its done correctly...

I have known speed be reduced by up to 50% on a 5m extension (professionally installed by a telecoms company) so yes, it could be.

I struggle to believe that the ' telecoms company' did there job correctly !!
maybe you / or the person this involved should research this to get solid proof (I.E wiki) - then place a claim on the 'telecoms company' ....

I've had my 20m extension working fine for 5 years.

Its a long time since I did broadband support... Only 1 time in nearly 2 years did I think that an extension cable could be causing the problems. Plenty of phone socket wiring problems though.

I always thought the isp I worked for introduced extension cable warnings, purely because the support staff were incapable of talking customers through where to put filters when loads of extensions were in use.

I struggle to believe that the ' telecoms company' did there job correctly !!
maybe you / or the person this involved should research this to get solid proof (I.E wiki) - then place a claim on the 'telecoms company' ....

Considering I have worked for 2 ISPs, and know how to install phone lines myself, and ok, 9 out of 10 are fine, but it has been known.

Why do you think that DSL providers ask you to try your modem/router in the main BT socket (without extensions connected) as the first point of testing for any connection or speed issues.

For the reason I stated above. It takes too long on the phone to discuss all the wiring in the house, plus customers are often inaccurate. Therefore its normal to ask the customer to try off the master with nothing else attached.

It would be a bit silly just to immediately blame an extension cable if the result was positive. Much more likely that filters were set up wrong.

I've seen a lot of faults caused by extension wires over the past couple of years, you'd be surprised how much interference they add to a line, and that's after two years of dealing with broadband faults. Not to mention the number of threads on ADSLGuide/Thinkbroadband about the same issues. Try plugging the router into the master socket, have a look at the attenuation on the modem's status page, then try the same at the end of the extension and see if it makes a difference - you may be alright.

I've had a lot of trouble recently with my ADSL broadband. I took the modem/router out of the extension and into the main box and the speed improvement is tremendous. The extension cabling has had no damage or deterioration, which is very odd.

To the OP, I'd probably leave the router where it is and use CAT5 network cable to run your internet feed closer to where you want.

I have seen MASSIVE speed drops, and drop outs, with cheap and nasty ARGOS/B&Q type quick fix telephone line extension kits.

To alchresearch:
Usually my jobs involve running telephone extension cables outside as this is the neater option, standard Cat5 you can't do that unless protected by containment or use more expensive external Cat5 Cable.
People these days (from what I've seen) have laminated floors which would mean stapling the Cat5 to the skirting which would also look bad. The solution I usually offer is a new master socket, where ever in the house, the router and/or PC need to be (sometimes the router hidden away in an attic if wireless).
Minimal cable on view is default in my book.

You're spot on there. I discovered another BT box upstairs closer to my PC. I plugged my homehub into that and the service has been so much better - faster, reliable, with no dropouts.

I have installed loads of peoples broadband using telepone extension cables, I usually start at the master socket and install there, then run the extension to the place i need it and set it up.

Never noticed any cases of major signal degradation but I use "high quality" cables from Wilkinsons:hihi:

I have installed loads of peoples broadband using telepone extension cables, I usually start at the master socket and install there, then run the extension to the place i need it and set it up.

Never noticed any cases of major signal degradation but I use "high quality" cables from Wilkinsons:hihi:

:hihi:

Interested to hear more info on how people get along with the "WILKS" type extensions compared to Extra Master Sockets etc.

I'm doing perfectly well on the end of a 10m wire.

I had an install last week, customer in Sheffield North was running a 10m cable through his house to a basement area. 3mb dropping to 1.5mb randomly. Replaced cable with a Master to give 7.5mb solid on an 8mb Sky Broadband Service.

Extension leads degrade quality, alot of people dont notice it as they do not know how to analyse their router stats, i.e noise on the line etc, speed might not be noticible to them if they just browse etc, etc. But for me I heavily download and notice drops in speed easily. But I also know how to read my router stats and know what they mean, if I was to put my router on an ext. line i would see lower speed, increased line noise(due the the crap quality of copper in these lines), possible packet losses, increased pings. People on wireless will not notice the difference anyway as wireless is still rubbish. The best solution is to always have the oruter in the master socket(take the face plate off if possible too) and use cat5/6 to the pc's.

Walkertelecoms, If you are a telecoms engineer, you should know that a Master socket contains a ring capacitor. A secondary socket does not.

Either way, disconnecting the ring wire on all sockets will often increase speed. It is not required on a broadband line as the ring circuit is in the filter.

Read this article http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/bellwirenutshell.html

I'm seriously disappointed that no-one else has said this (I certainly would have expected it from Orbrey):

If you want to extend a phone line that is to be used for ADSL, you will be fine so long as your extension is made from copper and not aluminium and runs directly to your master socket. The main reason extensions cause problems is because they are cheap extensions made of aluminium designed for telephone call quality only.

This is the reason that BT uses copper to connect you to your local telephone exchange. If they can run a copper cable two miles and still give you a perfect ADSL signal, adding another 20M will made no difference at all. But if you make that signal jump between copper and aluminium and THEN make it run a long a length of aluminium you will barely have signal left at the end of it.

I'm seriously disappointed that no-one else has said this (I certainly would have expected it from Orbrey):

1) If there had been any further questions added to this thread since its resurrection, I would have, except for the fact that:

2) Even if it's a copper extension as opposed to aluminium, chances are it'll be tucked under a carpet rather than tacked along a wall out of the way. This means it'll get walked on, have furniture dragged over it, be constantly flexed or trapped in doors and break, leading to a severe degredation in signal.

Don't bother with telephone extensions. Use ethernet cable or a wireless router.

Isn't that a "Don't buy a car, cause it will be broken when someone crashes into you" argument? :p

I'd have said "Prevention is better than a cure", personally. Or did you love those faults diagnostic calls that much? :p

Don't bother with telephone extensions. Use ethernet cable or a wireless router.

I said that back in August 08!

I'd have said "Prevention is better than a cure", personally. Or did you love those faults diagnostic calls that much? :p

I guess my opinion slowly changed after stopping supporting people like that. I've gone from recommending "that which could not possibly break" to "that which is most efficient and will last so long as you take care of things yourself".

Walkertelecoms, If you are a telecoms engineer, you should know that a Master socket contains a ring capacitor. A secondary socket does not.

Either way, disconnecting the ring wire on all sockets will often increase speed. It is not required on a broadband line as the ring circuit is in the filter.

Read this article http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/bellwirenutshell.html


So (and forgive me for being a bit 'green' on this) The idea is that by running a 'ring' wire to the secondary socket (which has no cap in it), the voltage on this wire is what messes up the ADSL speed? (ie by being in close proximity to the line pair, which is carrying the data, for a long legnth?

So (and forgive me for being a bit 'green' on this) The idea is that by running a 'ring' wire to the secondary socket (which has no cap in it), the voltage on this wire is what messes up the ADSL speed? (ie by being in close proximity to the line pair, which is carrying the data, for a long legnth?

And this is great right upto the point the customer doesn't want ADSL any more, removes all the gear to find none of their phones will work. Couple that to every ISP requiring you to PLUG into the master socket whilst testing.... you can see the picture, carting all your computer gear to the bottom of the stairs/landing can be a tad of a bind and the majority of people aren't too hunky-dory with the idea.
Quality of throughput is down partly to physical connections, running your ADSL through an extension may be fine, for the time being, but not ideal. IF you want a reference, email CISCO.

Woah, i'm just asking the question from a technical point of view. And do people really just decide they don't want broadband anymore?

lol sorry kiddo, I wasn't having a dig :o]
ADSL yes, and go over to Cable Modems.

CAT5 cable is hugely cheaper to buy that external Teclo cable too, but external CAT5 isn't :suspect:

Guys,( if you are able too).The best solution is to replace the front plate of your main socket with an ADSL front plate.Places like Bardwells or any good broadband eqpt supplier should be able to sort you something.If you have more than the one socket i.e extensions to your bedrooms/kitchen etc, all those points will require a plug in filter .Everytime you add something on or plug more things in, it adds resistence to your line and can deteriorate the broadband signal.However if you put in a broadband front plate (also called a nte2000) then you eliminate the need for any other filters.From this front plate you can run your phone and extensions as per normal, but then run a cat 5 wiring kit to a pc specific socket next to your router..If you do decide just to run an extension from your main socket,make sure it isnt double filtered, i.e a filter in place at your main point and another where your hub is situated.If you intend to run your own extension wiring, it must be telephony cable(single copper wires) and not miuti stranded cable simlilar to the ones used for burglar alarms

just seen a previous note regarding the capacitor in the main socket.It true that the main socket has a capacitor installed to enable the phones to ring, it also has a gas discharge unit for some lightning protection.You can remove the "bell wire" from all of your extension sockets but you will then need to put a broadband filter into those points to enable your extension phones to ring.If anyone has run their own extensions, check that you have not used "main sockets" as your extension. If you only have main sockets available, snip out the capacitor and gas dischage unit, you then effectively have a secondary extension socket

Walkertelecoms, If you are a telecoms engineer, you should know that a Master socket contains a ring capacitor. A secondary socket does not.

Either way, disconnecting the ring wire on all sockets will often increase speed. It is not required on a broadband line as the ring circuit is in the filter.

Read this article http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/bellwirenutshell.html

What of it?

You've sent a link about ADSL users yanking out their pin3 ring line, if they then decide to leave their ISP and the ISP ask for their Filters back (which they often do) are you going to call out and refit their pin3 because all the phones have suddenly stopped ringing? This wire isn't so easy to refit and people will not have the tool to carry out the re-connect without damaging the IDC's. Quite a few of my calls are to customers that have attempted this and thus written off the faceplate.

'ISP ask for their Filters back' ?

Your'e good for a giggle, I'll give you that.

God why am I always having to provide proof?
Durrr




Ticket ref. number: 6546057

Dear Alfred,
We are sorry to hear that you are leaving us. Below is a bit of information about the cancellation procedure and what you need to do. And, because we really don't want to lose you as a valued member of the BE community, we'd like to try and change your mind. We'd like to offer you the next 6 months at half price*, and also remind you about what else makes BE great¿ do you really want to walk away from all this¿ ¿ Award Winning customer support ¿ Out regular newsletters full of tips on how to get the most out of your broadband connection ¿ Not to mention our truly unlimited packages with no throttling even at peak hours (unlike some other ISP-s!) ¿ And our small but passionate team who really do care about your broadband experience. Please give it some thought and, if you change your mind, give us a call back on 0808 101 3425. We' ll be waiting by the phone. I still want to cancel¿ If there's no stopping you, then we hope you enjoyed using our service and we'll miss you. Below is some important information you need to know about your cancellation: Your cancellation date will be 04/03/2011. We would also like to remind you that according to our Standard Terms and Conditions we provide you with the equipment free of charge and it is due to be returned within 28 days after the service is terminated."Any Equipment not returned to us 28 days after the cancellation will be subject to a fee of £35.74". This is what we need you to return: the Be Box modem, the power supply, the filter and the cables. Our equipment should be sent to the following address: Returns Centre Freepost ********** Zone A Normanton WF6 1TF You can put the equipment in an ordinary cardboard box if you do not keep the original package. Please be advised that sending the modem to this address is totally free for you as the postage is paid by the addressee. You just need to use standard delivery and to take a certificate of postage from the local post office. It proves that you have sent the modem back to us and that you are no longer responsible for it. Please send a scanned or photographed copy of the certificate of postage to our email: modems@bethere.co.uk Once again it was our pleasure servicing your line. * Offer applies when you take a new 12 month contract and only for the current account.
Thank you
Ivo The BE Team

PLUS

quickly looking back through my records, I had 27 calls in 2010 because of what I previously wrote, or would you like me write all that out again too?

Use Cat5 Cable and all will be well.

Extension cables can be a bit of an unknown quality. Are they copper wired or aluminium wired? Is there any shielding? etc....

Cat5 is designed for carrying data with minimal interference. It's what we use when we extend master sockets.



Edit.


AAAGGHHH!!! Zombie Thread!

lol zombie thread!

the cat5, it is proper external right?
as you know standard UTP is not UV resistant.
for internal data I use LSCAT6.

Not much point for using Cat6 for extending telephone sockets is there? There's a massive cost premium for it!

I can appreciate for actual data cabling though.

Theres every point when my customers require a Structured Network.
Im talking internal data and voice for my corporates.
Im not just a home/residential engineer.
What I was saying is you dont use UTP/CAT5 standard cable for wiring up a phone socket externally. 99% of my residential telephone extentions will be wired external so UTP isnt on the cards, unless it's the external.

and I said "internal data" not telelephone.

Theres every point when my customers require a Structured Network.
Im talking internal data for my corporates.
Im not just a home/bloke in the street engineer.
What I was saying is you dont use UTP/CAT5 standard cable for wiring up a phone socket externally. 99% of my residential telephone extentions will be wired external so UTP isnt on the cards.

It was a genuine question. I wasn't questioning what you do. ;) All the ones I've seen have been to move the master socket from BT's trademark "Wherever we can be bothered to put it" location to somewhere we can put a cabinet. The cabling goes internally on the ones I've put out for, so Cat5 is adequate.

It was a genuine question. I wasn't questioning what you do. ;) All the ones I've seen have been to move the master socket from BT's trademark "Wherever we can be bothered to put it" location to somewhere we can put a cabinet. The cabling goes internally on the ones I've put out for, so Cat5 is adequate.

With me it's the other way round, internal cable looks garbage in the home, I always go external absolutely whenever possible.

I get my External Cat5e at a really great premium as I buy 4000 meters at a time, same amount I buy External 6pair Voice.