I'm planning on moving to Sheffield very soon, just looking for a place to rent. Want it to be easy access to Sheffield Uni for my gf but as i'll be working i'm not too bothered on location.

Seen some nice properties around Norfolk park area, on City Road (parklands) and also on queen mary road. But i know nothing about Sheffield except what i hear in the news which is rape and murder.

So is this a good area to live, with decent bus connections?

Hello Andy83 :)
Norfolk park has the better transport system and there are quite a few apartments still available.
The links below might help ;)


http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16745&highlight=whats+so+special+about+park+grange+mount

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29893&highlight=whats+so+special+about+park+grange+mount

Dear Andy83-

Details about flats/houses that are available for rent on the Parklands development (nr City Road and Queen Mary Road) can be seen via the Martin and co estate agents website:


http://www.martinco.com/search/properties/?division=2&office_id=&place=sheffield&state=-1&area=boundary.421720%2C399753%2C444779%2C379038.co mposite_place&zone=4800&order=price.asc&minprice=-1&maxprice=-1&proptype=-1&beds=-1&furnish_state=-1&rent_frequency=-1&moving_date_day=2&moving_date_month=8&moving_date_year=2005

I've bought an apartment on the Parklands development and although I wont be moving in until the end of May, I've visited the site on a regular basis for a year now. Despite the reputation of the council estate which is further down Prince of Wales road, I've found the Parklands development to be very quiet and have felt very safe when wandering about the place. As the houses and apartments there are basically the cheapest new build homes that you'll find in Shef, if you're thinking of moving there... go for it! Places like Crookes and Broomhill may have a better rep, but they're really expensive areas to live in.

As to transport links- From the development, it is about a 5-10 min walk to the nearest tram stops (blue or purple route at Manor Top/ Elm Tree and Spring Lane). The ride into the centre of town takes 10-15mins. There are also lots of buses about that will take you into the town centre (52, 95 etc)

Lib1

From an unbiased (I have no houses there to rent out) point of view, I'd advise you not to live around the Norfolk Park/ Manor area as it's notoriously bad. If you're looking for a good place to live for students/young professionals like yourself, I'd suggest Hunters Bar, Crookes or Broomhill.

Originally posted by t020
I'd advise you not to live around the Norfolk Park/ Manor area as it's notoriously bad.

Norfolk Park and Manor are two different areas. I can't comment on Manor because I've never lived there, but Norfolk Park isn't notoriously bad. What are all these terrible things you've heard about?

Originally posted by Andy
Norfolk Park and Manor are two different areas. I can't comment on Manor because I've never lived there, but Norfolk Park isn't notoriously bad. What are all these terrible things you've heard about?

Crime is higher in Norfolk Park than most places. Also, City Road (Parklands) is the Manor area is it not?

I'm presuming that Andy83 enqired about Parklands in particular due to the prices of the property. New build homes in Crookes, Broomhall, and Hunters Bar are FAR more expensive.

My husband and I are both young professionals and having chatted to many residents on the Parklands development, we've found out that most of them are young professionals too. Therefore, I think it's safe to say that Parklands is a young professionals area as is the Norfolk Park development. We're just young professionals that don't have enough money/ aren't stuck up enough to pay £££ extra for a so-called 'reputable area'. As I've said before, I've lived in Crookes and the Eccy road area as a student. Burglary was very common and a couple of my friends were even mugged.

We've had this debate many times t020, but you just don't seem to take in these facts. Yes, the Manor has a bad rep, yes crime stats for the Manor area are high- but the Parklands development is fine! People living on the development have stated as much on this forum.

Lib1

Again, i'm neutral is i've never lived there, although my sister has just moved up there.

Several years ago i would have said to avoid like the plague, however millions has been spent to regenerate the area and most of the notorious flats have been demolished.

Norfolk Park is now much better. My sisters states she has had no problems apart from one or two youths which all areas has.

It's not the best or safest area and has had its problems but it's much improved and i would now live there. Great tranposrt link if your near the tram

Andy83 - Hunters Bar, Crookes and Broomhill are all areas populated with many students and young professionals and contain plenty of pubs, bars and restaurants as well as close proximity to parks and wooded areas and good bus links. Contrast that with new developments such as Parklands which offer higher rates of nearby crime and close proximity to run down council estates and the choice is clear.

lib1,

the problem with t020 is that if a district isn't "Ecclesall", it's not worth living in, and the residents are all "benefits claiming, joy-riding single teenage mums" (trademark). he even denigrates the area of s11 that I live in, because it's the "wrong side" of psalter lane... which I think speaks volumes about him,(IMO) and his opinions.

he doesn't live there, and he hasn't lived there, so any experience of his about these districts is second, or maybe even third hand...
what you need to do is to hear from the people at the grass roots on these districts, like me,for example, (An ex resident of both!) and andy, who lives on the new development.

there's a lot of positivity going on, both on manor, and on norfolk park. people are working hard to regenereate waht wwere traditionally neglected areas, which gave the residents little hope, and little self esteem ("give-a-dog-a-bad-name-and-hang-him")

now these areas are being regenerated, and finance being put into that regeneration, the hope is also being regenerated, which is a wonderful thing.

we need to talk up the positives. and have less of the negativity.

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
lib1,

the problem with t020 is that if a district isn't "Ecclesall", it's not worth living in, and the residents are all "benefits claiming, joy-riding single teenage mums" (trademark). he even denigrates the area of s11 that I live in, because it's the "wrong side" of psalter lane... which I think speaks volumes about him,(IMO) and his opinions.


Since neither Hunters Bar, Crookes OR Broomhill are in Ecclesall I find it puzzling that you should come to that conclusion. It's well known that the aforementioned areas are the most popular among students and young professionals, which is why I recommend them ahead of new developments with run down council estates just a stone's throw away. You're entitled to disagree, but the fact that you so defensively try to undermine my opinions speaks volume about you (IMO) and your opinions.


Originally posted by Plain Talker

we need to talk up the positives. and have less of the negativity.


No we don't. We need to tell it like it is and answer people truthfully and honestly rather than living in some kind of utopia where every district in Sheffield is perfect and beyond criticism.

I disagree, t020

I am not painting districts as utopias.

I just think it's ridiculous to describe all council areas as dens of thieves, and focussing on the negative, as opposed to recognising the damned hard work that residents put into doing the best they can to improve the lot of the areas like Manor, Norfolk Park, Parson Cross etc...

Not everyone is priveliged to have the money to own their own homes. (or have parents that own) I personally am more than happy to rent my place from a housing association.

But that doesn't make my area bad, because there are a lot of renters/ tenants of social landlords.

People take a pride in their communties in areas of social housing, just like in areas where homes are bought.

Money and other resources are going into these areas to regenerate them. folk ARE working at grass roots level to rase morale, and standards, and expectations of the residents on these estates. it's time recognition was given to these people who are grafting to make a difference.

just because there are one or two families in a district who are "scum", it doesn't make every other resident there, "scum" also.

PT

Yes but I'm not saying because people rent from the council it makes the areas bad. We're talking about the Manor here - it's not just any council estate, it's one of the most notorious estates in the entire country. Why should I recommend a student and young professional couple to live there/near there when there are other areas that would suit their needs much better?

Originally posted by t020
We're talking about the Manor here - it's not just any council estate, it's one of the most notorious estates in the entire country.

Although Norfolk Park's close to the Manor, it isn't the Manor. I remember you getting very upset when someone suggested your area was somewhere else.

The reality is that I could not afford to live in Crookes, Hunters Bar or any of those places you mention. Therefore I was forced to look elsewhere. I looked towards Norfolk Park.

I was initially aprehensive - I knew this area's reputation. But places change, and for me this is a good place to live. I've been here three months and had no trouble - neither have any of my neighbours. I've got a new home, with a 10 year warranty, for a lot less than I could have in S10.

Andy83 has obviously asked about this area for a reason - maybe he realises the prices in S10 are silly?
:confused:

Well i've lived on Norfolk Park for 11 years and kblade 20 years (at least). Neither of us have ever had any trouble.
The only thing i have witnessed is little kids being a pain in the ass but the majority of them are grown up and working now!

I'm happy living here, my neighbours are all happy here and everyone i know off the estate are happy too.

Isn't that all that matters?

Originally posted by vidster
Well i've lived on Norfolk Park for 11 years and kblade 20 years (at least). Neither of us have ever had any trouble.
The only thing i have witnessed is little kids being a pain in the ass but the majority of them are grown up and working now!

I'm happy living here, my neighbours are all happy here and everyone i know off the estate are happy too.

Isn't that all that matters?


The actual crime figures give a better indication than the experiences of 2 people, but this isn't the only issue. Hunters Bar, Broomhill and Crookes are renowned for being student and young professional areas and they have much more in the way of local amenities to cater for such a market, so as an unbiased, neutral contributor seeking to offer some advice to someone unfamiliar with Sheffield, I made my recommendation.

[i]We need to tell it like it is and answer people truthfully and honestly rather than living in some kind of utopia where every district in Sheffield is perfect and beyond criticism.
[/|B]

So pleased to see that t020 believes that there is a need "to tell it as it is" and to "answer people truthfully and honestly". I could not agree more.

Just a few niggly points that I'd t020 to clear up for me if you would......

From an unbiased (I have no houses there to rent out) point of view, I'd advise you not to live around the Norfolk Park/ Manor area as it's notoriously bad.

Q.1. Norfolk Park and The Manor are two geographically separate areas of the city. Would you enlighten me, and tell me what connects the two?

Q.2. What is "notoriously bad" about Norfolk Park? Please substantiate your claim, answering "truthfully and honestly".

Crime is higher in Norfolk Park than most places.

Q.3. Please substantiate this claim, again answering "truthfully and honestly".

And one other interesting quote from t020 ......


Hunters Bar, Crookes and Broomhill are all areas populated with many students and young professionals and contain plenty of pubs, bars and restaurants as well as close proximity to parks and wooded areas and good bus links. Contrast that with new developments such as Parklands which offer higher rates of nearby crime and close proximity to run down council estates and the choice is clear.

Oh, so the choice is clear is it t020? I understand you live in the Ecclesall Road area - which includes your recommended Hunters Bar? Very nice part of town I would say. What a pity about the adjacent Sharrow area having the highest burglary rate in Sheffield though. You did know that fact though didn't you t020? Sometimes, like t020, I too just "have to tell it as it is".

Anyway, t020, I look forward to your answers to my three queries.

Originally posted by redrobbo

So pleased to see that t020 believes that there is a need "to tell it as it is" and to "answer people truthfully and honestly". I could not agree more.

Indeed, honesty is the best policy. Offering an honest *opinion* when asked for is the least I could do to help the original poster.


Originally posted by redrobbo

Just a few niggly points that I'd t020 to clear up for me if you would......

Not a problem.


Originally posted by redrobbo

Q.1. Norfolk Park and The Manor are two geographically separate areas of the city. Would you enlighten me, and tell me what connects the two?

According to MultiMap ( http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=437000&Y=387000&width=500&height=300&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=pc&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&zm=0&scale=10000&out.x=4&out.y=9 ) the approximate distance between the two places is around 700 yards. Furthermore, the original poster asked about Norfolk Park AND the Parklands development, which is situated on City Road, Manor.


Originally posted by redrobbo

Q.2. What is "notoriously bad" about Norfolk Park? Please substantiate your claim, answering "truthfully and honestly".


This comment was mainly with regards to the Manor, which is undeniably a notorious crime hotspot featured in countless news articles and TV crime programmes. Norfolk Park is within a short distance of it (as explained above) and has a fairly bad reputation amongst people, though not to the same extent as the Manor. "Truthfully and honestly" my opinion is that I wouldn't want to live there.

Originally posted by redrobbo

Q.3. Please substantiate this claim, again answering "truthfully and honestly".

Crime figures are freely available to view on the governments National Statistics website and also our Sheffield Council's website.


Originally posted by redrobbo

Oh, so the choice is clear is it t020? I understand you live in the Ecclesall Road area - which includes your recommended Hunters Bar? Very nice part of town I would say. What a pity about the adjacent Sharrow area having the highest burglary rate in Sheffield though. You did know that fact though didn't you t020? Sometimes, like t020, I too just "have to tell it as it is".

Anyway, t020, I look forward to your answers to my three queries.

You understand incorrectly. I live in Ecclesall as opposed to the Ecclesall Road area, several miles further up the road from Hunters Bar, up Ecclesall Road South towards Parkhead (and not at all adjacent to Sharrow). I have no vested interest in recommending Hunters Bar - it isn't even in the same political constituency as myself.

I merely offered alternative suggestions which I believe are more suitable to students and young professionals alike. If I'd have known it would cause this much bother - I would've witheld and allowed Andy83 to instead be answered with a one sided, biased and idealistic batch of comments which could easily mislead him.

t020-

Since we're on the topic of facts, here's are some facts for you. Many of the properties on the Parklands development do not have recognised postcodes yet. For example, the postcode for my part of the development is brand new and is not recognised on sites such as multimap or 'up my street' yet. The postcodes for the existing homes on Parklands are less than a year old (Most were bought in July 2004). Therefore, the crime stats that you cite probably do not represent the Parklands developement.

Some more facts for you- violent crimes such as rape or assault are lower than the national average on the Manor. I'm much more worried about this type of crime than any other. So, burglary and car theft rates are high- as long as you get a decent burglar alarm, locks and insurance (if the worst, comes to the worst!) then the problem is basically sorted! Is this what you are so worried about? Is this why you are scaring people away from the area?

As you live way across the other side of Shef in Ecclesall, how frequently do you pass through the Manor? Have you even been to the Parklands development before? If you had, you would know that the main public access routes to town (via bus or tram) are a short walk up the Prince of Wales Road to City Road. The run down council houses that you speak of are nowhere to be found in this particular area.

You are right when you say that there are no 'trendy' restaurants and bars in the areas of Norfolk Park and Parklands, but this is just the price thay we pay for living outside of the City centre. I'm not too familiar with Ecclesall, but I'm guessing that your area isn't filled with a nightlife as 'happening' as that on West St or Division St either.

At the end of the day developments such as Parklands and the Norfolk Park development are useful ways for young graduate professionals like myself and my husband to get onto the property ladder without totally skinting ourselves in the process! They are examples of 'brownfield' sites that the government wishes to utilise in order to help those like myself who just want to make a start in life.

I've said this before, but again, you don't seem to take it in. If you keep (unnecessarily!) 'scaring off' potential residents from these new-build developments, all you are doing is ensuring that the stigma of the areas remain- the more 'decent' folk that move into these places, the more 'decent' the areas will become. If the new-build homes are left standing empty because everyone is too afraid to live there, then surely economic regeneration attempts in the area will fail and the areas may decline even more!

Judging by the location in which you live and your allusion to the fact that that you own properties that you rent out, you are seem to be much older than those of us that 'champion' the regeneration efforts and are also more likely to be much wealthier than us who have recently graduated and are just starting out. Many of us simply can't afford the areas in Crookes, Broomhill, Hunters Bar etc (well, not yet at least anyway!). If you want to give alternatives to the Parklands and Norfolk Park development- at least suggest areas that people are likely to be able to afford... by trying to suggest affordable areas with decent transport links to the city centre, maybe then you will realise the difficulties that we face and lighten up a little on your stance against the regeneration efforts in Sheffield.

Lib1

Norfolk Park used to have a bad reputation, however that was when there were 15 high rise tower blocks - and now there aren't any.

Clearly areas can change for the better over time, and whilst some areas in Sheffield become priced out of the "young professionals" market, other improving areas become more attractive. Consequently as more young professionals move into a regenerating area it will have a knock on effect of attracting more people of similar aspirations and the area will be further lifted up by its bootstraps.

It's very misleading to make comments that were synonymous with an area's previous reputation where things have since clearly changed. Obviously reputations can take a long time to shake off as the mud sticks but it's better to give a fair and well informed impression rather than using an out of date "word association" that was more relevant many years ago.

Something that I've noticed over the past few years is how some of the disadvantaged areas are improving, while some of the more highly regarded areas in Sheffield are suffering more graffiti, vandalism, burglaries and muggings.

If you read the Sheffield Telegraph each week you'll see more occurrences of the latest mugging/attack round Nether Edge,Sharrow,Cemetery Rd and the lower parts of Ecclesall Rd all of which are close to Hunters Bar than you will of any attack within Norfolk Park.

Nowhere is iimune to crime, whereas in some areas you may worry about getting mugged for your mobile phone, round the leafier parts of S10, S11 & S17 you're more likely to have someone try to break into your house, threaten you with a knife and try to steal the attractive car you've got.

Originally posted by BertieBasset

Nowhere is iimune to crime, whereas in some areas you may worry about getting mugged for your mobile phone, round the leafier parts of S10, S11 & S17 you're more likely to have someone try to break into your house, threaten you with a knife and try to steal the attractive car you've got.

Well, the facts say otherwise. Incidences of theft from a vehicle and theft of a vehicle are actually lower in the "leafier" wards of S10, S11, S17.


Crime and Community Safety
.................................................. ..........................................Ecclesal l.... Hallam .... Dore..........Sheffield Average
Burglary from a dwelling (Rate per 1,000 households)............ 19.4....... 18.3....... 16.8............ 29.4
Robbery offences (Rate per 1,000 population)......................... 1.0...........1.1........ 0.6.............. 2.6
Violence against the person (Rate per 1,000 population)......... 0.7......... 0.7......... 2.3.............. 6.0
Theft from a motor vehicle (Rate per 1,000 population)........... 13.0........ 10.1....... 12.7.......... 18.5
Theft of a motor vehicle (Rate per 1,000 population)............... 2.6........... 2.2........ 2.3.............. 6.9
Source: Sheffield City Council Community Safety Team 2002.

Lib1 - the original poster never stated their budget and they did talk about renting, not buying. I've offered alternatives based on the suitability to young professionals and students - it's up to Andy83 whether he considers them or not. Unlike you, I'm completely unbiased and have no agenda in this thread. I'm simply offering an honest and impartial opinion, as was requested, but perhaps you'd like me to lie in the future?

If we're talking about renting, my advice would be to steer well clear of the Hunter's Bar/Broomhill axis, as most of the affordable places that are available to let are in a disgusting condition.

"I'm completely unbiased and have no agenda in this thread. I'm simply offering an honest and impartial opinion"

Erm... how can you offer an unbiased, honest and impartial opinion on a place that you've never even been to?

As I stated before, the postcodes of the Parklands development probably weren't accounted for on the crime stats that you repeatedly cite. Therefore- even the second-hand 'evidence' that you use to support your argument is biased and dishonest.

You have a negative opinion of an area that you have had little experience of. This is fine- everyone is entitled to their own view. But, when you use your prejudice in order to disuade others from inhabiting these areas, then call it an 'agenda' if you wish, but having a direct personal experience with the areas that you so easily disregard, I will speak up about it.

As I stated in a previous message, I assume that Andy83 enquired about these particular areas because of their price. If price hadn't been an option, surely he would have enquired about new-builds on West St etc that are in the centre of town.

Admittedly, I did go off point and onto house prices in my previous message, but rental prices are still much higher in the places that you cited- so my argument still stands. Recent graduates either looking to rent or buy at the moment are faced with ridiculously high price options at the moment. Urban regeneration developments like Parklands and the Norfolk Park development are a Godsend!

The fact that you keep suggesting areas like Crookes, Broomhill, Hunter's Bar etc to forum users as an alternative to much more affordable places like Parklands, Firth Park and the Norfolk Park development, just shows that you are out of touch with the difficulties that new home seekers (whether they are renting or buying) are facing at the moment.

Maybe it's time the you stepped out of your ivory tower in Ecclesall and took a good look at the housing situation at the moment.

Lib1

Originally posted by Lib1
"I'm completely unbiased and have no agenda in this thread. I'm simply offering an honest and impartial opinion"

Erm... how can you offer an unbiased, honest and impartial opinion on a place that you've never even been to?

How would you know where I have and haven't been to?


Originally posted by Lib1

As I stated before, the postcodes of the Parklands development probably weren't accounted for on the crime stats that you repeatedly cite. Therefore- even the second-hand 'evidence' that you use to support your argument is biased and dishonest.

The crime stats I posted above weren't in reply to your post anyway, but besides it's done by council wards not postcodes. Also, higher crime is not the sole reason against the area you love so much. As I have said previously, the amenities on offer in areas such as Hunters Bar, Crookes and Broomhill are much more likely to suit a young student and professional couple.


Originally posted by Lib1

You have a negative opinion of an area that you have had little experience of. This is fine- everyone is entitled to their own view. But, when you use your prejudice in order to disuade others from inhabiting these areas, then call it an 'agenda' if you wish, but having a direct personal experience with the areas that you so easily disregard, I will speak up about it.


No, I have no agenda, I just wanted to offer my honest opinion to the original poster. In future I don't think I'll bother - I'll sit back and watch them be brainwashed by a torrent of biased opinions instead.


Originally posted by Lib1

Admittedly, I did go off point and onto house prices in my previous message, but rental prices are still much higher in the places that you cited- so my argument still stands. Recent graduates either looking to rent or buy at the moment are faced with ridiculously high price options at the moment. Urban regeneration developments like Parklands and the Norfolk Park development are a Godsend!

Lib1


Again, the original poster didn't state a budget so it is fair to offer alternatives regardless of rental pricing.

Why is my opinion biased?

Yes, I've bought property on the Parklands, but I've also stated previously that car theft and buglary rates are high on the nearby council estate.

I've never said that the Parklands is fantastic and problem free... all that I've ever said about the place is that it is more affordable than the new-builds in town and even the other urban regeration projects in Norfolk Park and Firth Park (and they are also a lot 'prettier'!).

Why is this biased? Why is my stating these facts an 'agenda'?

Is what I am saying so terrible? If everyone reading this were to listen to me and take up immediate residence on the development- would that be such a bad thing? Is wanting to see a deprived area thrive a crime?

No... I didn't think so.

As to amenities in Crookes and Brromhill- during my time in these areas as a student, we usually took the bus (or the long-long downhill, then back uphill again walk) into town in order to have a nightlife (unless a night out at the Old Grindstone or 'The Notty' does it for you!). The bus ride from Crookes to town is approx 10-15mins. But, guess what- the tram ride from Parklands to town takes about the same amount of time.

Yes, there are restaurants in Crookes, Broomhill and Hunter's Bar- but there are also restaurants on City Rd (v. close to Parklands).

As far as local conveniences go, the tiny Co-op at the top of Crookes Road is abysmal. The Somerfields in Broomhall was a bit better, but it was always totally packed out with students. The same goes for the Tescos on Eccy Road. The Parklands development is a 5 min walk away from a Somerfields, a Netto and a Spar (great for when you've been out and need more alcohol for the journey home!)

As far as public transport from your 'desirable' areas goes... it doesn't! When I lived in Crookes, I missed the start of almost every 9am lecture due to the buses being stuck in traffic, it also took AGES to get home from 4-6pm. At the rush hours- it could take up to 40mins to get to the Uni (the normal bus journey was about 10-15mins). I haven't lived in Hunter's Bar before, but I'm guessing the same is probably true for this area. Living on the Parklands gives you the option to travel by bus (crap!) or the virtually traffic-free supertram (yey!). The distance into the city centre by tram is about 15min (about the same as a bus ride into town from Crookes, Broomhall and Hunter's Bar).

...Need I go on?

Lib1

your stats are 3 years out of date.

Car crime in respect of breaking into peoples houses to steal high priced cars off their drives round S10, S11, and S17 has rocketed in the last couple of years in S10, S11 & S17...Six weeks ago in Ecclesall and Millhouses there were 10 attempts to steal high value cars off drives in a week and that was a stat from the police themselves when a friend had their house broken into......catch up!


Originally posted by t020
Well, the facts say otherwise. Incidences of theft from a vehicle and theft of a vehicle are actually lower in the "leafier" wards of S10, S11, S17.


Crime and Community Safety
.................................................. ..........................................Ecclesal l.... Hallam .... Dore..........Sheffield Average
Burglary from a dwelling (Rate per 1,000 households)............ 19.4....... 18.3....... 16.8............ 29.4
Robbery offences (Rate per 1,000 population)......................... 1.0...........1.1........ 0.6.............. 2.6
Violence against the person (Rate per 1,000 population)......... 0.7......... 0.7......... 2.3.............. 6.0
Theft from a motor vehicle (Rate per 1,000 population)........... 13.0........ 10.1....... 12.7.......... 18.5
Theft of a motor vehicle (Rate per 1,000 population)............... 2.6........... 2.2........ 2.3.............. 6.9
Source: Sheffield City Council Community Safety Team 2002.

Originally posted by BertieBasset
your stats are 3 years out of date.

Car crime in respect of breaking into peoples houses to steal high priced cars off their drives round S10, S11, and S17 has rocketed in the last couple of years in S10, S11 & S17...Six weeks ago in Ecclesall and Millhouses there were 10 attempts to steal high value cars off drives in a week and that was a stat from the police themselves when a friend had their house broken into......catch up!

Show me the new figures then, by all means. I think you'll find they'll still be well below the city average. They're the most recent stats I can obtain from the council's website, but your word against official figures is obviously much more reliable.



Lib1 - I really can't be bothered to carry on with this anymore, it's pointless. You're obviously prepared to type a long response to try to justify why Parklands is so great, I could do the same about the areas I recommended but I don't see the point in wasting my time as I don't feel as strongly about them as you clearly do with your beloved Parklands development. At the end of the day it's up to Andy83, all I've done is *TRIED* to offer my own personal opinion. Again, in future I won't bother because it really is NOT worth all this hassle.

Andy83 - Parklands is wonderful, having one of the country's most notorious sink estates within hundreds of yards is great, it's perfect, I can't recommend it highly enough, bla bla bla bla bla.

Ah t020,

We've been debating far too long for you to just cop out like that...

Provide me with your examples of affordable areas in Sheffield (£450 or less per month for a two-bed new-build apartment) with a good reputation, low crime rates, excellent facilities and brilliant transport links into the town centre.

I'm genuinely interested to see what you can come up with.

Lib1

Originally posted by Lib1
Ah t020,

We've been debating far too long for you to just cop out like that...

Provide me with your examples of affordable areas in Sheffield (less £450 or less per month for a two-bed new-build apartment) with a good reputation, low crime rates, excellent facilities and brilliant transport links into the town centre.

I'm genuinely interested to see what you can come up with.

Lib1

Since when did a budget enter the scenario? There's no mention of a budget by Andy83 so until he gives an idea of his budget then there is no evidence that he needs somewhere that's so low priced.

However, if he is working to a budget I'd suggest areas like Walkley (which is next to Crookes and also popular amongst students and near to Sheffield Uni). You could rent a 3 bed terraced house there for around the £450 mark, it has a fairly good reputation, lowish crime, good facilities and transport links and popular amongst students.

I think you'd have to pay a little more than £450 to get a decent place in Walkley.

If you're on a budget your money goes much further in less 'fashionable' (which is often shorthand for 'snob value') areas.

t020,

On this occasion either STFU or admit you don't know what you're talking about. Norfolk Park has undergone a rather impressive regeneration over the past couple of years.

UpMyStreet is always woefully out of date. My postcode doesn't even register on it even though my property has been in existence for 9 months or so.

In the past Norfolk Park was filled with council tenants living in high-rise blocks. These have now all been demolished and the majority of the properties are either owner occupier or have been bought-to-let. These figues again are not reflected in the out of date UpMyStreet.

But it doesn't matter if people like you can't adapt to changing times it will just mean that there will be bargains to be had for homebuyers, until suddenly people realise how lovely these parts have actually become.

You want more details on what's been going on in Norfolk Park recently? See here (http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_communities/documents/page/odpm_comm_027135.hcsp). Excuse my brusqness but it pains me to see an otherwise intelligent person talking out of their arse.

P

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin
t020,

On this occasion either STFU or admit you don't know what you're talking about. Norfolk Park has undergone a rather impressive regeneration over the past couple of years.


I'm not disputing that, I'm merely offering my own personal opinion of what I regard more suitable to meet the OP's needs.


Originally posted by E-Man Groovin

UpMyStreet is always woefully out of date. My postcode doesn't even register on it even though my property has been in existence for 9 months or so.

What's UpMyStreet got to do with ANYTHING? I never referred to it, I've not suggested that anyone refers to it, this is purely a figment of your imagination.


Originally posted by E-Man Groovin

In the past Norfolk Park was filled with council tenants living in high-rise blocks. These have now all been demolished and the majority of the properties are either owner occupier or have been bought-to-let. These figues again are not reflected in the out of date UpMyStreet.

Again, what relevance has UpMyStreet got? I know the nasty tower blocks are no more, but there's still the Manor 700 yards up the road (and even closer to the Parklands development that Lib1 loves so much).


Originally posted by E-Man Groovin

But it doesn't matter if people like you can't adapt to changing times it will just mean that there will be bargains to be had for homebuyers, until suddenly people realise how lovely these parts have actually become.

Well, time will tell, but I know where I'll be putting my money.


Originally posted by E-Man Groovin

You want more details on what's been going on in Norfolk Park recently? See here (http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_communities/documents/page/odpm_comm_027135.hcsp). Excuse my brusqness but it pains me to see an otherwise intelligent person talking out of their arse.


No I don't want more details on what's been going on in Norfolk Park recently. It still won't change the fact that the Manor is a stone's throw away and that the more typical young professional and student areas such as Crookes, Hunters Bar and Broomhill will cater to Andy83 and his partner's needs much more, IMO.

t020

the new build on norfolk park is a darn sight more than 700 yards from the parklands development.

which also goes to show how little you really know about NP and Manor.

I'd rather rent/ buy economically, in those districts, than pay the grossly overpriced costs, of living in properties in the so-called "better" districts. (eg the "cram em in anywhere" student properties at a sixty quid rip-off per room/[person, in a house worth about £75 a week in rent, maximum)

I can quote an example of a 2-bed, ex council place, some time ago,(about 5 years ago) having an asking price of 92K just cos it's in crookes. pathetic, and rip off, when that particular property was in reality only worth a maximum of 50K. the price inflated unrealistically because of its location. (and of course, the pound signs, clicking up like a one-armed bandit in the vendor's greedy, moneygrubbing little eyes)

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
t020

the new build on norfolk park is a darn sight more than 700 yards from the parklands development.

which also goes to show how little you really know about NP and Manor.

Not according to Multimap, as shown earlier.


Originally posted by Plain Talker

I'd rather rent/ buy economically, in those districts, than pay the grossly overpriced costs, of living in properties in the so-called "better" districts. (eg the "cram em in anywhere" student properties at a sixty quid rip-off per room/[person, in a house worth about £75 a week in rent, maximum)

I can quote an example of a 2-bed, ex council place, some time ago,(about 5 years ago) having an asking price of 92K just cos it's in crookes. pathetic, and rip off, when that particular property was in reality only worth a maximum of 50K. the price inflated unrealistically because of its location. (and of course, the pound signs, clicking up like a one-armed bandit in the vendor's greedy, moneygrubbing little eyes)

PT

No, properties are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. There's no so thing as an "overpriced" property.

I note, t020, that you didn't attempt to challenge PT's point. The fact is that you get a lot more for your money outside these "fashionable" areas, and any young professional on an average salary would definitely be better off investing in property in a (carefully selected) up-and-coming area of the city. Ask any estate agent.

Originally posted by Greenback
I note, t020, that you didn't attempt to challenge PT's point. The fact is that you get a lot more for your money outside these "fashionable" areas, and any young professional on an average salary would definitely be better off investing in property in a (carefully selected) up-and-coming area of the city. Ask any estate agent.

Her point was that properties in certain areas are "overpriced" - I challenged that directly.

Young professionals and students are better off opting for an area that suits their lifestyle the best, which is generally fashionable bars, pubs and restaurants. That's why areas such as Hunters Bar and Crookes are full of them, ask any estate agent.

Originally posted by t020
Young professionals and students are better off opting for an area that suits their lifestyle the best, which is generally fashionable bars, pubs and restaurants. That's why areas such as Hunters Bar and Crookes are full of them, ask any estate agent.

If an estate agent told me that Crookes was full of fashionable bars, pubs and restaurants, I'd ask said estate agent when the last time he visited Crookes was! Nice little area that it is.

Originally posted by Greenback
If an estate agent told me that Crookes was full of fashionable bars, pubs and restaurants, I'd ask said estate agent when the last time he visited Crookes was! Nice little area that it is.

They'd tell you that the area was full of students and young professionals (i.e. "them" in my last post).

Lib1 has adequately argued the case for Parklands. I will now do the same for Norfolk Park.

I recently took Keith Hill MP, the government housing minister on a tour of Norfolk Park, following in the footsteps of John Prescott MP, the Deputy Prime Minister - who visited the estate earlier last year.

I took Keith around the show house, and later we visited the Extra Care Home on Guildford View. He was impressed by the massive transformation that is taking place on Norfolk Park. He is not alone. So are the residents, both old and new.

The recent history of Norfolk Park is well known, and everyone acknowledges that the estate became run down. Where folk could vote with their feet - they simply left. But what a different story Norfolk Park is today.

The high rise tower blocks, all 15 of them - have gone. I helped organise the blow-down of the last tower block only the other weekend. All but one of the rows of flats have also gone. The low rise properties have been renovated. The architectural style of the new build is stunning - especially when seen from other parts of the city. The views afforded over the city centre and the Peak District moors are fantastic. Folk are simply stampeding to buy one of these properties, and prices continue to rise.

The Queens Tower, a listed building, has just been renovated and extended. There are 101 properties, all for rent, at approx £500 p.c.m. Work will soon begin on building the first green eco-homes outside of London by the Environmental Trust. They will offer local people the opportunity to remain on the estate, and will have low-cost heating. Work is also commencing on the former Beeches site, and the former Kenninghall site will soon be developed. A mini-masterplan is being developed for a new heart of the estate, which may include community premises, health centre, dentist and shops.

There is also the new Norfolk community primary school, the new Beacon church, the new Extra Care Home, and the new Centre in the Park - with adjacent new playground. Don't forget the excellent tram and bus links to the city centre, and last, but not least, the wonderful, Grade II listed Norfolk Heritage Park.

But don't let all this new build and new social development alter t020's fixed viewpoint that Norfolk Park is a "notoriously bad area". Living so faraway from Norfolk Park, as t020 does, appears to give him an advantage of being able, in his own words, to "tell it as it is". But what do I know compared to t020? After all, I only live nearby, and represent Norfolk Park on the city council - so it's not that I could be as familiar with the area as t020 seems to be.

Originally posted by t020
They'd tell you that the area was full of students and young professionals (i.e. "them" in my last post).

Er, yeah - good point well made :(

Originally posted by redrobbo

But don't let all this new build and new social development alter t020's fixed viewpoint that Norfolk Park is a "notoriously bad area". Living so faraway from Norfolk Park, as t020 does, appears to give him an advantage of being able, in his own words, to "tell it as it is". But what do I know compared to t020? After all, I only live nearby, and represent Norfolk Park on the city council - so it's not that I could be as familiar with the area as t020 seems to be.

Was I claiming to know everything there is to know about it? No. I suggested alternatives which *I believe* are more suited to the needs of the original poster, or at least for him to also consider.

No thread has ever got me annoyed as this one. I've had enough - I offered my opinion and some alternative options, that's all. In future I really won't bother.

I wish Andy83 all the best with wherever he chooses to live.

Originally posted by t020
Was I claiming to know everything there is to know about it?
No.


My concern is that you claimed things about Norfolk Park which are pertinently not true. You continued to give the area a bad name which residents and myself (as a ward councillor) do not believe it deserves.
[i]

No thread has ever got me annoyed as this one. I've had enough - I offered my opinion and some alternative options, that's all. In future I really won't bother.

[/B]

You offered your opinion alright - so why are you so annoyed? Is it because Lib1, Plain Talker, Greenback, E-Man Groovin, vidster, Andy, youwhatref, BertieBasset and myself all contradicted your opinion? Are you annoyed with yourself for discovering that despite claiming to "tell it as it is", you didn't in fact do that at all? If so, you only had to apologise or withdraw your opinions t020. Anyone is entitled to get their facts wrong. We all make mistakes. No need to beat yourself up about it.
[i]
I wish Andy83 all the best with wherever he chooses to live. [/B]

And so do I. If you do choose Norfolk Park Andy83 - PM me, and I'll gladly show you around!

Originally posted by t020
Was I claiming to know everything there is to know about it? No. I suggested alternatives which *I believe* are more suited to the needs of the original poster, or at least for him to also consider.

No thread has ever got me annoyed as this one. I've had enough - I offered my opinion and some alternative options, that's all. In future I really won't bother.

I wish Andy83 all the best with wherever he chooses to live.

no, t020, you weren't suggesting alternatives. you were using the thread to propogate, and perpetuate the myths that surround areas like NP and Manor.

you were giving someone new to the area misinformation, and insinuating that np etc are "unsuitable areas". (and that they couldn't *possibly* want to live in areas *like that*)

I was challenging your misinformation, as someone who has had experience of having lived in both areas, and who found them both to be perfectly fine, even if she *did* live in social housing on said areas.

what you were doing was to decry the areas, using old, outdated "factiods" and statistics, instead of having a balnce,and saying that, yes, there are pockets, as in any area, yours included, where things aren't as good as they could be... but, hey, look at the changes being made, look at how the area is regenerating.

people deserve to be able to take pride in the area where they live. I do, and I did. i awas involved in the TRA where i lioved previously, and I am on the committee of the TRA here, where I live now.

I am one of those people, like redrobbo et al, who are grafting our *****s off, working damn bloody hard, to make a difference in our communites. I take pride in what I do, trying to "build up", where nay-sayers like you and your ilk have "torn down".

Currently we are looking at multi million pound schemes in this district to improve the area. Making decisions that will better the lives of the residents of Sheffield.

people in NP are taking a pride in their community, and taking responsibility for change, and progress.

it's time that you "sat down, and shut up, and got off the bus", or, better still, roll your rich-kid sleeves up, and joined in the work that is being done in these areas. it's high time that residents were empowered and given the chance to be proud of the achievements made in this city.

PT

As someone who has bought a new build on the Norfolk Park development and will move in a few weeks, i've followed this thread with interest. I work at Hunters 'Bra' and was brought up a stone's throw away from Parklands. I fully support Redrobbo's views on the positive regeneration of Norfolk Park and Lib1's equally positive opinions about Parklands but think the E-Man Groovin says it best :clap:


Originally posted by E-Man Groovin
t020,

Excuse my brusqness but it pains me to see an otherwise intelligent person talking out of their arse.

P

t020-

Unfortunately I was unable to find the plans online, but when it is finished, the Parklands development will be absolutely massive! If I remember correctly, over 2000 new homes being built in total. I've also heard that the Norfolk Park development is due to be greatly expanded.

As both of these developments are mostly made up of young professionals- why do you not think that bars, restauarants etc will also soon be created nearby in order to cater to the needs of these people?

Just take a look at West St- when I moved to Shef as a student 8 years ago- the place was dead (Ok- there were a few restauarants and bars dotted around, but it was NOTHING like it is now!). Since the arrival of the apartments, the place has flourished to cater to the needs of the new residents. I'm not trying to suggest that Norfolk Park or the Parklands will soon rival West One etc apartments in the 'trendy' stakes- I'm just saying that the amenities that you keep citing for young professionals will soon be available in these new urban regeneration areas.

On the topic of student areas and amenities- is City Rd not a popular location for student houses? As City Rd is a stone's throw away from Parklands, then surely the amenities that exist for City Rd students will also exist for students on Parklands. On a similar track, those at the Queen Tower development and the Norfolk Park development can easily walk to the town centre for their amenities.

Lib1

Norfolk Park, Parklands, Manor; they're all fantastic. Hunters Bar, Crookes, Broomhill; totally unsuitable for students/young professionals. The end.

Originally posted by t020
Norfolk Park, Parklands, Manor; they're all fantastic. Hunters Bar, Crookes, Broomhill; totally unsuitable for students/young professionals. The end.

Oh the sarcasm - ;) :)

Alex

"Norfolk Park, Parklands, Manor; they're all fantastic. Hunters Bar, Crookes, Broomhill; totally unsuitable for students/young professionals. The end".

No, instead try-

Hunters Bar, Crookes, Broomhill are great places for young professionals and students, but for those that can't afford these areas, the new developments at Parklands and Norfolk Park are good alternatives.


That is what all of us (Manor and Norfolk Park residents) have been trying to say from the very beginning- shame that you couldn't be bothered to listen and that the debate had to go this far.

THE END!!!

Originally posted by t020
Norfolk Park, Parklands, Manor; they're all fantastic. Hunters Bar, Crookes, Broomhill; totally unsuitable for students/young professionals. The end.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Why can't you just admit that you didn't "tell it as it is" in respect of Parklands and Norfolk Park? This latest post of yours is, as amhudson119 rightly points out, just pure sarcasm.

As Plain Talker, Lib1 and mrinvestigat point out, you simply decry these areas, and ignore the positive developments taking place. I too echo the sentiments of E-Man Groovin, who adequately summed up your contributions.

In the circumstances, I think you should amend your signature by deleting the word "quality".

PS Welcome to Norfolk Park mrinvestigat. Excellent choice! :thumbsup:

Originally posted by redrobbo
Now you're just being ridiculous. Why can't you just admit that you didn't "tell it as it is" in respect of Parklands and Norfolk Park? This latest post of yours is, as amhudson119 rightly points out, just pure sarcasm.

Yes it was sarcasm, I didn't really try to hide it....
I "tell it like it is" because I offered my opinions on the areas without coming from a biased point of view (I don't own property there, I don't have to "sell" the areas to local MPs to get more funding, etc etc). I am entirely neutral and couldn't give a flying proverbial whether Andy83 chooses Parklands, Norfolk Park, or any of the 3 areas I suggested. Again, I merely sought to offer my personal advice which I won't do in future.

Originally posted by redrobbo

As Plain Talker, Lib1 and mrinvestigat point out, you simply decry these areas, and ignore the positive developements taking place. I too echo the sentiments of E-Man Groovin, who adequately summed up your contributions.

Yes, positive developments maybe taking place, but as at *now* the preferential areas for the VAST majority of students and young professionals in Sheffield are Hunters Bar, Crookes, and Broomhill, largely due to the amenities on offer and all of which, the latter 2 in particular, in close proximity to Sheffield University (which is where Andy83's girlfriend will be studying afterall).


Originally posted by redrobbo

In the circumstances, I think you should amend your signature by deleting the word "quality".

:hihi: It was put there by request.

thank you all for the huge response this thread has generated. I was expecting a simple yes or no, but this is far more fasinating to read.

The actual location of a property isn't too bad. So long as my girlfriend can just hop on a bus or tram and be at uni within 20 mins is ok. What i'm really looking at is price. A Saving of say £50 per month is £600 in a year, it adds up. And these properties are far cheaper than those in the student areas, which i'm not too bothered about anyway. My main aim is cheap but also decent to live in. Norfolk park seems to fit that category....

t020, once again, you misrepresent both yourself, and the areas that you are decrying.

You say that you have no bias, yet, despite not living in those areas, nor having lived there, you still do down these districts.

So there you are, you ARE expressing bias.

You ARE ignoring the hard work and graft that is being put into these areas to regenerate them.

You would do well, T020, to listen to what people like me, e-man, redrobbo, andy liz et al are saying, as they have 1st hand experince of living and working in areas like NP. IMO, their positive experiences hold much more weight, as residents there than yours, as someone who merely observes the district across the valley, from his ivory tower, and pontificates opinions without true facts.

eye thengyew!

ps all the best andy 83, wherever you choose to set up your home, and I sincerely hope you feel welcome, and settle in quickly, here in this wonderful city of ours.

BTW, don't forget that you will be more than welcome to join us all, at the dev cat on a sunday night (see thread in going out in sheffield!) :)

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
t020, once again, you misrepresent both yourself, and the areas that you are decrying.

You say that you have no bias, yet, despite not living in those areas, nor having lived there, you still do down these districts.

So there you are, you ARE expressing bias.

You ARE ignoring the hard work and graft that is being put into these areas to regenerate them.



I've not lived in Hunters Bar, Crookes or Broomhill either. In fact I've not lived in many places. I can still comment on them though. You don't have to live somewhere to know what it's like.

Originally posted by t020
I've not lived in Hunters Bar, Crookes or Broomhill either. In fact I've not lived in many places. I can still comment on them though. You don't have to live somewhere to know what it's like.

But it helps if you've been to the said estates in the last few years t020 ;)

Andy83: I hope you enjoy wherever you decide to move to :thumbsup:

Originally posted by t020
I "tell it like it is" because I offered my opinions on the areas without coming from a biased point of view ..... I am entirely neutral and couldn't give a flying proverbial whether Andy83 chooses Parklands, Norfolk Park, or any of the 3 areas I suggested.


But vidster, who has lived on Norfolk Park for 11 years, actually told it like it is, not you. Despite his evidence, and that of kblade, you still argued that Norfolk Park was "notoriously bad".


Again, I merely sought to offer my personal advice which I won't do in future.


Amen.


.....the preferential areas for the VAST majority of students and young professionals in Sheffield are Hunters Bar, Crookes, and Broomhill, largely due to the amenities on offer and all of which, the latter 2 in particular, in close proximity to Sheffield University (which is where Andy83's girlfriend will be studying afterall).


No-one has argued against these points you've made. I'm sure that Andy83 and his girl-friend will have taken these observations into account.


:hihi: It was put there by request.

Well, now I'll request you to remove it until you learn what a "quality post" entails:!:

Originally posted by Lib1
Just take a look at West St- when I moved to Shef as a student 8 years ago- the place was dead (Ok- there were a few restauarants and bars dotted around, but it was NOTHING like it is now!).

West Street has always had loads of pubs, but they were invididual and each had character, now they are all laminate wood, Ikea lighshade and lether sofa clone bars, the apartments and the so called "trendy/sophisticated" residents have sucked every last drop of colour, life and individuality out of West Street and made it a no-go area for most of the people who have been drinking there for years.

Originally posted by redrobbo
But vidster, who has lived on Norfolk Park for 11 years, actually told it like it is, not you. Despite his evidence, and that of kblade, you still argued that Norfolk Park was "notoriously bad".



But it still is "notoriously bad" among people I know, including a Sheffield Hallam student I know who lives there and was broken into twice within 3 months and also had his mobile phone stolen. "Notoriety" depends who you speak to I suppose, but it was true in the context in which I said it.

Originally posted by t020
But it still is "notoriously bad" among people I know, including a Sheffield Hallam student I know who lives there and was broken into twice within 3 months and also had his mobile phone stolen. "Notoriety" depends who you speak to I suppose, but it was true in the context in which I said it.

Brglars can return in quick succession to a bugled property, often to "acquire" the items that the resident's insurance has replaced; this happened to my grandmother (in s20) and my ex mother in law (in crookesmoor, s10).

I am sorry that this happened to your acquaintance. however, burglaries can happen no matter what postcode a person lives in. living in, say SW1 as opposed to S1 does not make a house magically immuneto being broken into.

Student areas are, (to use your favourite phrase) "notorious" for being vulnerable.

Burglars get easy access through carelessness and lack of security consciousness, (leaving windows open etc) and will target student accomodation because they know that there will be easily-stolen, and easily-passed -on items within, such as laptops, pcs, hi-fi equipment, and mobile phones.

The answer is to be as security conscious as one can possibly be. This is the answer, no matter where you live.

My own front door, in the sleepy, leafy, and quiet suburb of nether edge, stays locked firmly shut, even though it is quiet, and safe, i will not risk a sneak thief getting inside. What i have, I want to protect.

back on topic, Norfolk Park is no longer the sink estate it had become, thanks to the regeneration going on, and investors' faith in, and support for communities like NP.

PT

Originally posted by Andy83
My main aim is cheap but also decent to live in. Norfolk park seems to fit that category....

I hope you got the PM i sent you - if you've got any other questions about Norfolk Park, feel free to ask. Are you in Sheffield at the moment or are you living elsewhere?

t020. I would like to invite you to visit Norfolk Park to see what the area's really like now, today. Please let me know when you wish to come and I shall get a speical cake from Marks and Spencers for you.

Yes he did get the PM, thatk you, BTW i am his GF.

The house around there has gone and so we are still looking hence the thread asking about the northern general area/Herries road.

Originally posted by Annemarie
The house around there has gone and so we are still looking hence the thread asking about the northern general area/Herries road.

What kind of house do u want, and what is your budget?

We are looking for a 2 or 3 bedroom house of no more than £500 a month preferably less. If it cost £500 would prefer it to be furnished.

The house i have seen on/near herries road is £395 a month and it is 3 bedroomed hence why i was wondering why it was so cheap.

Originally posted by Annemarie
We are looking for a 2 or 3 bedroom house of no more than £500 a month preferably less. If it cost £500 would prefer it to be furnished.


I know a couple of properties to rent at Norfolk Park but they are flats, not houses.

I can't comment on Herries Road as I don't know that area.

Originally posted by t020
But it still is "notoriously bad" among people I know

Oh lordy here we go again. How many people do you know who live in the new Norfolk Park estate exactly?

And on what grounds do they say that it is notoriously bad? Sounds like more of your odure if you ask me. 1 bloke being burgled still doesn't equate to an area being notoriously bad. As PT said burglaries happen in Notting Hill, Chelsea and Kensington. I guess they're all 'notoriously bad'.

I take back my previous 'otherwise intelligent' comment.

Andy83

I came on this site to search the history of Norfolk Heritage Park and was directed to your discussion.

I moved from Liverpool to Crookes two and a half years ago. Crookes is a nice area to live, however in the past year I know friends and other Crookes residents who have been broken into, cars damaged and stolen, harrassment by teenage gangs, students being victimised/attacked etc etc all of which can happen at anytime, to anyone, anywhere in the world.

Just this February my partner and I moved to Norfolk Park (a property actually in the park). I had my doubts having heard the stories people told me about the area and its residents although my partner whom has lived 28 of his 33 years in Norfolk Park assured me otherwise. I am glad to find his assurances true and am proud of the area where I live. I have so far not seen or heard of one act of crime. The individuals and families who reside in the houses/flats around my own are hard working, caring and respectful people. Yes people's houses will get broken into, cars will be damaged and stolen, teenage gangs will harrass and students like any other people will be victimised and attacked but as said before at anytime, to anyone, anywhere!

I hope that you find what you are looking for!

Originally posted by t020
But it still is "notoriously bad" among people I know, including a Sheffield Hallam student I know who lives there and was broken into twice within 3 months and also had his mobile phone stolen.

Mmmm....an interesting observation by t020, especially when he posted -

Originally posted by t020
The actual crime figures give a better indication than the experiences of 2 people.

Bit puzzled here t020. Please help me out. How can you argue that actual crime figures give a better indication than the experiences of two people who live on Norfolk Park, but then promote your second-hand experience (of a student who lives on Norfolk Park) to perpetuate your myths about the area?

You seem to be doing what E-Man Groovin suggested earlier......talking through the rear end of your anatomy.
And I see you are still claiming quality posts!

Originally posted by Louise78
Andy83I came on this site to search the history of Norfolk Heritage Park and was directed to your discussion.


Welcome to the forum Louise78. Thank you for your contribution to the debate.

You will find some history boards, with photographs, relating to Norfolk Heritage Park, (including the visit of Queen Victoria), at the Centre in the Park.

Originally posted by Louise78
Just this February my partner and I moved to Norfolk Park (a property actually in the park).

You lucky so-and -so Louise :nod:

Welcome to the forum too :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Andy
Norfolk Park and Manor are two different areas. I can't comment on Manor because I've never lived there, but Norfolk Park isn't notoriously bad. What are all these terrible things you've heard about?

norfolk park youst to be very bad about 15 years ago with drug dealers and vandals e.t.c.

Originally posted by redrobbo
Mmmm....an interesting observation by t020, especially when he posted -



Bit puzzled here t020. Please help me out. How can you argue that actual crime figures give a better indication than the experiences of two people who live on Norfolk Park, but then promote your second-hand experience (of a student who lives on Norfolk Park) to perpetuate your myths about the area?

You seem to be doing what E-Man Groovin suggested earlier......talking through the rear end of your anatomy.
And I see you are still claiming quality posts!

It's simple really. Notoriety is through word of mouth, facts are through the crime figures. It fairs pretty badly in both respects among people I know and with the 2002 crime stats (which admittedly could be more up to date but the council doesn't seem to want to unleash newer ones yet).

Originally posted by t020
It's simple really. Notoriety is through word of mouth, facts are through the crime figures. It fairs pretty badly in both respects among people I know and with the 2002 crime stats (which admittedly could be more up to date but the council doesn't seem to want to unleash newer ones yet).

Fair enough mate but if you'd just remove those blinkers for just one moment you'll see that's what everyone is trying to tell you and those "people you know" who obviously have been nowhere near this area in the last couple of years. Norfolk Park USED to be dodgy, with tower blocks and drug dealers and dodgy council tenants and crime. This WILL be reflected in out-of-date crime figures and inflexible, ill-educated opinion.

But we're all trying to tell you that the area has been completely regenerated. No more tower blocks. Razed to the ground and redeveloped. No more drug dealers. All new. Owner occupiers. (Am keeping it simple so as not to tax your obvious cognitive limitations)

Now repeat after me: areas can c-h-a-n-g-e. Brownfield regeneration is the buzzword. Get with the program mate.

When i came back from jogging around the fabulous heritage park tonight, i came home via Park Grange Court.

I found myself wondering if it was an overspill car park for Mercedes, but then i saw all the BMW's and the Audi's, the Volvo's, even a huge Bentley!, not to mention the various sports cars (this is all from about 40 houses)
and i realised it was just a normal road,
on a normal estate,
with normal people,
and i love it!

I'm just a 'scummer' from the Manor (yes, this is where i grew up) who is trying to make his estate the best it can be, and loving all the fresh life being injected into it!

I don't give a t*** about what uneducated people think of our estate.

To me it's fine and that's all that matters ;)

Don't forget the Porsche Carrera at the end of my road Vidster!

Hey I'm about to start jogging round the heritage park of an evening - maybe we'll bump into each other (look out for gasping person)

P

Originally posted by t020
It's simple really. Notoriety is through word of mouth, facts are through the crime figures. It fairs pretty badly in both respects among people I know and with the 2002 crime stats (which admittedly could be more up to date but the council doesn't seem to want to unleash newer ones yet).

I notice you've not accepted my invitation to visit the area, t020. Why is that? :suspect:

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin
Don't forget the Porsche Carrera at the end of my road Vidster!

Hey I'm about to start jogging round the heritage park of an evening - maybe we'll bump into each other (look out for gasping person)

P

I wonder if the guy with the Porsche has a debate wether to drive the Porsche or that huge Merc every day? (i'm not green eyed...really!)

I probably wouldn't notice if you went past me while jogging. After 100 meters my eyes go fuzzy as i enter 'survive the next lap' mode :hihi:
It really is nice and peaceful though. The later the better for me.

I called into the sales office on Norfolk Park today, as I'd promised to let the sales staff have some photos of the very last blow-down of the tower block we'd recently attended.

I'd also promised Andy83 (in a PM) that I'd check on the sales. Here's what's currently available as of Sat 07 May.....

Suffolk: 3 storey house, 3 bedrooms, integral garage
Plot 125 - reserved
Plot 126 - reserved
Plot 127 - £130,500
Plot 128 - £130,000
Plot 130 - £130,500
Plot 131 - reserved
Plot 132 - £130,500
Plot 133 - £130,500

Fitzwilliam: detached, 4 bedrooms, 2 parking spaces
Plot 134 - reserved

Cavendish: 2 bedroom apartment
Plot 138 - £118,000 (ground floor)
Plot 142 - £120,000 (first floor)

There are also flats to rent, at £500 p.c.m., at the Queens Tower development on Norfolk Park.

Norfolk Park is an extremely desireable place to live, is up and coming, and frankly, beats the pants off a whole host of other places in Sheffield. But despite the long and growing list of forummers who have posted their testimonies to the area on this thread, there remains one, yes just one, blinkered person.
This forummer has been reduced to floundering around, grasping at second-hand anecdotes to support his outdated and outrageous views of Norfolk Park. Despite his claims, he is
oblivious to the facts, and is incapable of 'telling it as it is'.

I will now issue my own challenge to t020. PM me with a couple of dates and times when you are free during the next 2 weeks, and I will confirm one with you, and give you a guided tour of Norfolk Park*. If you can make it during the morning, I'll also buy you lunch at the Centre in the Park!

* That includes a visit to the showhouse (daytime opening hours only of course), a look around the Queens Tower development, and........a peek at the Porsche, the Merc, the Audis, the Volvos, the sports cars and the Bentley!

It seems most the house have gone now on Norfolk Park. Are there any plans for further extensions or is that it? I hope to be looking for a new house in 6 months or so, and it seems to be one of the nicer but still affordable developments.

Originally posted by redrobbo
IBut despite the long and growing list of forummers who have posted their testimonies to the area on this thread, there remains one, yes just one, blinkered person.


The "blinkered" forummer" is doing all this for one reason only.

Take a look at any thread that t020 participates in. He seems to derive some sort of perverse pleasure from irritating as many people as he can and refusing to let any subject drop even when proved in error over and again.

There are others on this Forum but he is the most obvious.

He's a troll (foll-de-roll :D).

Originally posted by rubydazzler
The "blinkered" forummer" is doing all this for one reason only.

Take a look at any thread that t020 participates in. He seems to derive some sort of perverse pleasure from irritating as many people as he can and refusing to let any subject drop even when proved in error over and again.

There are others on this Forum but he is the most obvious.

He's a troll (foll-de-roll :D).


I object to that. I assume your comments are based on the decline of society thread in which you made a statistical error and wouldn't accept your mistake, and instead went off in a sulk refusing to answer to the thread again and calling me a "troll"? Other forummers knew what I meant and I have the PMs to prove it. You're just bitter and this kind of post surely makes *you* the troll.

I've been around on this forum for 2 years and put a lot of time into it, and it sickens me that newbies like you come in throwing their weight unfairly around when if it wasn't for people like me the forum probably wouldn't be around when you joined.

ok t020 - I'm wrong and it's me that's the troll. I can live with that ... happy now?

Back on topic - I drive through the Norfolk Park area on a regular basis and I would say that the old part has some of the most attractive residential buildings in the City and with the new build and regeneration of the council estate and being within easy walking distance of the centre - it's looking to become one of the most desirable areas for young professionals who dont want to live in apartments on West Street. You get car crime and groups of youngsters hanging around in all areas being a nuisance but I don't see as many of them over there as I do in the residential areas in the south and sw.

I'd have no hesitation in recommending anyone to at least go and take a look at what's on offer there.

Originally posted by march
It seems most the house have gone now on Norfolk Park. Are there any plans for further extensions or is that it? I hope to be looking for a new house in 6 months or so, and it seems to be one of the nicer but still affordable developments.

Work is starting right now on the 2nd phase march. I'ts about 1000 meters down the road from phase 1. There is also going to be another phase starting further up the estate, near the new school, although i do not know when that is starting.
I'm sure someone like redrobbo will be along soon with the details :)

Originally posted by redrobbo

I will now issue my own challenge to t020. PM me with a couple of dates and times when you are free during the next 2 weeks, and I will confirm one with you, and give you a guided tour of Norfolk Park*. If you can make it during the morning, I'll also buy you lunch at the Centre in the Park!

* That includes a visit to the showhouse (daytime opening hours only of course), a look around the Queens Tower development, and........a peek at the Porsche, the Merc, the Audis, the Volvos, the sports cars and the Bentley!

Hello t020. I see you posted the day after I posted this challenge to you. I assume you have therefore read my post. Would love to take you around Norfolk Park so that you can divest yourself of your prejudices. Are you up for the challenge :?:

Originally posted by redrobbo
Hello t020. I see you posted the day after I posted this challenge to you. I assume you have therefore read my post. Would love to take you around Norfolk Park so that you can divest yourself of your prejudices. Are you up for the challenge :?:

Not particularly. As a compromise I might take a drive around the place some time soon.

Originally posted by rubydazzler
The "blinkered" forummer" is doing all this for one reason only.

Take a look at any thread that t020 participates in. He seems to derive some sort of perverse pleasure from irritating as many people as he can and refusing to let any subject drop even when proved in error over and again.

There are others on this Forum but he is the most obvious.

He's a troll (foll-de-roll :D).

Whats a TROLL ? too many definitions on google !

Originally posted by poppins
Whats a TROLL ? too many definitions on google !

You will find a definition here. (http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp)

I don't think you can be a troll, Ruby...you definitely do not fit that description...lol

:wink:

Originally posted by Ann_x
You will find a definition here. (http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp)

I don't think you can be a troll, Ruby...you definitely do not fit that description...lol

:wink:

Thanks Ann, but dosen't fit t020 at all, i can think of quite a few other members it does fit from time to time though.

Originally posted by poppins
Thanks Ann, but dosen't fit t020 at all, i can think of quite a few other members it does fit from time to time though.
As this is going off-topic, I have resurrected a thread in Computer & Tech Chat, so the subject to trolls can be dealt with there.:smile:

A late entry on the subject of Norfolk Park and City Road and the whole 'Manor' thing...

I live in the area (not in a new build home) and it was totally affordable when I bought my house. I have a view over the whole city which is beautiful. Yes, there is crime in the area but the majority of residents have been fine and dandy, and are proud of the area. Over in Commonside (where my other half used to live) we used to be woken up by the shouting of drunken students returning from a night on the p***. This is ok if you don't have to go to work/lectures the next day, but we did. It happened over and over (wednesday nights being the worst, for some reason).

I had to phone the police on two occasions because a) someone was smashing windows and b) there was a full-on fight in the street. I will be honest and say I've rung the police here once, because someone was banging on our alley door. I think that there is crime everywhere (a sad reflection of the society we live in now) and that if you can't avoid it, you might as well live somewhere you can get some sleep, and can afford.

I have much more space here (£55 a week for a 3-bed house) compared to the one room he had in Commonside (£47 a week for one room in a house shared with six people) and if I want nature I can walk to the park in less than ten minutes. The tram is spitting distance away, I have a 24 hour shop. and a taxi back from town is under a fiver. I've walked home when I've spent up (female, on my own, about 3am) and not been bothered once. It only takes 35 minutes back from town as well (20 minutes into town, but it's downhill).

Andy83, I'd recommend my area if you can take it with a few flaws. Nowhere in Sheffield is perfect, and if anyone says it is they're somewhat blinkered.



Now then... Norfolk Park runners... fancy a meet-up? I've got a race in two weeks.

Welcome to the forum tanya, and......also to Norfolk Park.

I do hope that t020 will indeed take a drive around the place soon. Your compromise is appreciated. Have a peep in the show house facing Park Grange Road whilst you're there, and enjoy your visit.

well than kyou for all these replys, i have arranged a number of viewings for properties in the parklands and also around fretson road area. They look very nice houses at a very reasonable price.

Wouldn't mind meeting up sometime red. have some free time tuesday noon and wednesday early noon if you're not busy.

Good to hear that you're checking out Parklands. If you do decide to rent a place on the development, I hope that you and your girlfriend are happy there and soon (my apartment on the Parklands development is due to be completed at the end of May) we'll be neighbours!

Lib1

The houses we are going to look out look really nice, i presume they are cheaper than Hillsborough/Crooks because they are out fo the way and also stigmitised.

Hallam uni houses students up Norfolk park so it can't be that bad.

Read all the posts and it seems Norfolk park has come a long way, it seems no worse than other areas of Sheffield, and better than a lot more!

I've looked at a few places at Park Grange Mount and I have to say they are very nice.
After doing the city living thing the new property over at Norfolk Park offers similar city convenience but with much more space and a better overall finish.

Originally posted by chri5
I've looked at a few places at Park Grange Mount and I have to say they are very nice.
After doing the city living thing the new property over at Norfolk Park offers similar city convenience but with much more space and a better overall finish.

Hey Chris,

I moved over from Royal Plaza on West Street to be up here and I'm enjoying the view and the chilled vibe. I'm a DJ in the city centre twice a week, plus I generally party in town on another couple of occasions and I still feel really connected to the centre.

What I like about it is it's somewhere peaceful to come back to. Living on West Street, I found there was no respite from the stag & hen parties! However walking up that hill (Park Grange Road) at 3 am - after a few beers - is quite sobering!

P

Originally posted by vidster
Work is starting right now on the 2nd phase march. I'ts about 1000 meters down the road from phase 1. There is also going to be another phase starting further up the estate, near the new school, although i do not know when that is starting.
I'm sure someone like redrobbo will be along soon with the details :)

At your request vidster......

Beeches site: I am awaiting detailed development timetable from NPL but the site will be developed with -
45 x 2 bed flats, 1 x 3 bed flat, 2 x 2 bed houses, 9 x 3 bed house and 2 x 4 bed houses for sale, together with 16 x 2 bed houses & 6 x 3 bed houses developed by NBH for shared ownership. The site is adjacent to the Norfolk Heritage Park, and has a nearby tram stop.

Kenninghall site. Again I am awaiting detailed development timetable from NPL but the site will be developed with -
35 x 2 bed flats, 3 x 3 bed flats, & 28 houses (sorry don’t have
the mix to hand) for sale; 3 x 2 bed flats, 1 x 3 bed flat, 4 x 2 bed houses, 9 x 3 bed houses & 2 x 4 bed houses all for social rent via NBH. The site is on a hilly position, with fantastic views of the city centre and rolling moors. Also close to a tram stop.

Green eco homes. These are to be built near the new green eco school. We don’t yet have a start date - in part because the Environment Trust are seeking extra gap funding from Transform South Yorkshire.
The site has still to receive Planning Permission, in part this is due to having to redesign the scheme around the abnormals - principally in this instance a 35,000 volt underground electricity cable. My best guess at this stage is that we will be looking for a start on site around July/August of this year.

Thanks for the info redrobbo, are these new sites part of the same development? By that I mean are they going to be similar/same designs and the same builders etc. Also if you get any information on when they are expected to be on the market could you post it up here. I realise you aren't the source of all knowledge, so understand if you don't get any further info :) I don't suppose you know who I could contact to be kept informed about the furure developments?

I think I will miss out on the last few houses that are currently available as I aren't quite ready to sell my current house but would be very interested in the next phase.

Hi March-

In addition to the Norflok Park development, you may want to check out the homes on the Parklands development which is about a 5mins ride up the road by tram or by car. Properties currently for sale include the following:

http://212.50.188.105/cgi-win/vebra.cgi?details1?src=vebra&PropertyCode=1086010/BASSL/51005/15

http://www.vebra.com/home/search/vdetails.asp?src=agent&fd=693&bd=0&db=1&cl=2690&pid=9488226

In addition, do an S2 search on Saxton Mee and see the first two properties: http://www.saxtonmee.co.uk/residential/propertysearch.htm


For details of brand new, yet to be built, 'off-plan' properties on the Parklands development, see the Bellway site at: http://www.bellway.co.uk/ (choose Yorkshire then locate Parklands)


Lib1

Thanks, I have actually spent much time walking around the parklands development and surrounding areas (I like doing my research early :D ). The price they are going for really makes me want to like them but I can't make myself comfortable with the area.

It is great for getting in to town, I timed a journey by bus and from the edge of the development it is 6-7 mins brisk walk to bus stop on city road, and then 12-14 mins in to town (during the day anyway).

However you are still surrounded by council housing, and have to walk through these areas to get to public transport. While I aren't saying council housing means bad area, there is a higher percentage of "dodgy" people living there. I live in an ex-council house now and while I am happy here there are some things I want to get away from.

I know Norfolk Park is considered a "not so nice" area but nearly all the old houses and flats have gone now. The new development makes up the majority of the housing in the areas where it is.

I see from your other posts you have recently bought a flat on the development and must have spent much more time looking round than I have. What was it that made you happy with the area, as I assume most people would initially have the same concerns as myself.

Hi March-

Despite what people have said about the surrounding council area, everytime that I've been to the Parklands, I've felt nothing but safe and secure.

I'm not sure which way you walked to get to the development, but the route that I take is directly up and down the Prince of Wales Road- there are council houses on this road, but they are well maintained and have probably been bought.

As to 'dodgy people'- I haven't encountered any! At Manor Top (where Somerfields and Netto is) on a Sat arvo, the number of 'decent looking' people greatly outweigh the number of people that look like 'chavs' and these locals helped me out quite a lot when I was first exploring the Parklands by filling me in about the local shops and bus routes etc.

The only complaint I have is that occasionally when I go to the development, there are a couple of teenage boys driving about the nearby fields on those little motorbike things- they're not causing any harm, but the sound is quite loud!

Another reason why I'm not too fussed about the safety of Parklands is because I know an ex-colleague that has lived on the part of the development that's about 3 years old. The woman who owns that house is a nurse and she lives there with her young son and her boyfriend. She's lived there for over two years and has experienced absolutely no problems. In addition, on my visits to the development, I've often got chatting to my future neighbours and they're all decent people in professional jobs etc. They admit that the council area further down the Prince of Wales Road is dodgy, but none of the 'dodgyness' seeps up to the new-build development.

People go on and on about how safe the Norfolk Park development is... have they not seen the council estate just up and around the corner from the development? The tower blocks have gone, but the estate doesn't look like it's going anywhere! In addition, the Arbourthorne council estate is just around the corner!

I'm not trying to diss the Norfolk Park development, but for the prices and for the surrounding council area... overall, they're a rip off in comparison to the Parklands.

It may not be 'proof' of the safety of Parklands, but the price of the homes of the development has risen rapidly within a year! When my husband and I first bought on the development, the prices for off-plan properties started at £72,995 (last May 2004). The prices now start at £87,995 (May 2005). In February, I mentioned on a different discussion list that I wouldn't be able to afford the apartment that I have bought if I was looking at the time (prices started at £78,995 in February 2005), there's no way in Hell that we'd be able to buy there now!

Lib1

Thanks for the info. To be honest I haven't completely ruled out the development, I just prefer Norfolk Park at the minute.

When I have been to look around I have usually got a bus from town up City Road, then walked up Wulfric Road. I don't know why but it always has a bad feel to it, could be the teenagers hanging around during the day or maybe the tatty (for want of a better word) looking houses.

The development and ajoining new developments all look very nice, and I can see the houses are mainly owned by decent people in prefessional jobs and with young families.

However the newish development in Castlebeck just across POW road very quickly became run down. The houses on there are now very cheap and there are loads with broken windows, and some that look empty. This doesn't seem right for a fairly new estate, without furhter information I can only assume it has got like this because of the area it is in.

I dont want to sound like I am just trying to diss the development and it may be where I end up buying, I'm just mentioning some of the issues I am worried about.

Hi March-

Don't worry, I don't take any offence about your opinions of the Parklands- as you've actually been there anything that you say is far more valid than those that basically dismiss it off-hand as being part of the Manor without knowing anything about the place.

Just to add though- you mentioned the 'run-down' looking Castlebeck. The part of the Parklands developemnt which has been standing since 2001-2002 is still really neat and tidy. When I have the time, on my visits to the new part of the Parklands development, I often take a walk through the older part- there are no broken windows , graffitti or any other sign of decline to be found anywhere! In addition, when they come up for sale, these flats and houses sell very very quickly- sometimes within two weeks of appearing on estate agents websites!

I don't know what went wrong with Castlebeck- maybe the houses were too close to the council estate... using the older Parklands development houses as a guide (so far at least anyway!), Castlebeck's problems don't seem to have occured in Parklands.

I don't know if it's true but I've heard that part of the homes of the Norfolk Park development are reserved for Housing Association tenants because the housing association is involved in the development. The Parklands development is filled with completely private homes by the national building company Bellway.

Lib1

I *believe* that is true about the Housing Association tenants on the Norfolk Park development, around 25% if I remember correctly. May be wrong though! If it is true I would assume people who have caused problems in the past wont be given houses there.

It is because of yourself, other posters on here and a few people I have spoken to that I am still very much undecided. I can see people have considered the same factors I have and come to the conclusion they are happy to live there. I think I may spend some more time looking around the area, when I am in a position to move house.

As I have said previously I can see the benefits (eg price) of the development over Norfolk Park for example. Plus I realise if I choose somwhere on Norfolk Park (assuming there are properties still available when I can move) I will be paying a big premium for been so close to the city centre which isn't a major issue for me anyway.

Hi March-

I'm sure that you'll be happy no matter where you decide to buy!

I should have move into my apartment by the end of May, so I'll report back to the forum in about a month's time to let you know what life is REALLY like on the development- [that's if I'm not kidnapped or murdered by the Manor folk when I move to Parklands ;-) ]

Lib1

Originally posted by Lib1
Hi March-

People go on and on about how safe the Norfolk Park development is... have they not seen the council estate just up and around the corner from the development? The tower blocks have gone, but the estate doesn't look like it's going anywhere! In addition, the Arbourthorne council estate is just around the corner!

I'm not trying to diss the Norfolk Park development, but for the prices and for the surrounding council area... overall, they're a rip off in comparison to the Parklands.


Lib1

Are you sure you're not trying to "diss" the Norfolk Park development? Sounds like it to me.

Why don't you just be happy about the fact you're going to live on Parklands and enjoy yourself up there and allow those who prefer Norfolk Park to do likewise. I'm forming the impression you want something like "safety in numbers" given the way you launch into yet another promotional campaign about Parklands every time someone mentions the Norfolk Park development.

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin
I found there was no respite from the stag & hen parties!


I know just what you mean. My main issue with Sheffields city center living is the parking; total nightmare!!!

I've made an offer on a place at Park Grange Mount so fingers crossed.

Originally posted by BertieBasset
Are you sure you're not trying to "diss" the Norfolk Park development? Sounds like it to me.

Why don't you just be happy about the fact you're going to live on Parklands and enjoy yourself up there and allow those who prefer Norfolk Park to do likewise. I'm forming the impression you want something like "safety in numbers" given the way you launch into yet another promotional campaign about Parklands every time someone mentions the Norfolk Park development.

Not to mention the fact that Parklands is right next to the Manor estate, one of the most notorious in the country. Seems an odd line of "attack" for Lib1 to be making on Norfolk Park.

Originally posted by BertieBasset
Are you sure you're not trying to "diss" the Norfolk Park development? Sounds like it to me.

Why don't you just be happy about the fact you're going to live on Parklands and enjoy yourself up there and allow those who prefer Norfolk Park to do likewise. I'm forming the impression you want something like "safety in numbers" given the way you launch into yet another promotional campaign about Parklands every time someone mentions the Norfolk Park development.

That is a fair point Bertie. Those of us who live in NP generally don't say anything untoward about Parklands (I know others do, but those of us who live in Norfolk Park don't), it would be polite Lib1 if you did the same in regard to Norfolk Park.

Originally posted by chri5
I know just what you mean. My main issue with Sheffields city center living is the parking; total nightmare!!!

I've made an offer on a place at Park Grange Mount so fingers crossed.

I'm on the same road Chri5 and it's nice.

Wait a min... where's all that defensiveness just come from?

Read my messages on this thread again- I've done nothing but praise the Norfolk Park development !

For example: "At the end of the day developments such as Parklands and the Norfolk Park development are useful ways for young graduate professionals like myself and my husband to get onto the property ladder without totally skinting ourselves in the process! They are examples of 'brownfield' sites that the government wishes to utilise in order to help those like myself who just want to make a start in life".

The only negative thing that I said about the NF development is that it is much more expensive than Parklands (which it is!) and it is also near to a council estate (which it is and which the Parklands development also is).

I only mentioned these issues because March said that she was concerned about the Manor council estate being close to Parklands. I also said that I was NOT stating the fact that the NF development is close to council estates in order to 'diss' the NF development!

Crikey, people- calm down- I'm on your side!

Read March's message and then put my comments into context. Bertie Basset has a habit of twisting my words and then falling flat on his face- I can't believe that any of you fell for such an obvious and cheap attack on me.


Lib1

As someone who has spent way too much time looking round both developments considering I cant buy anything for a few months yet I have a reasonably un-biased opinion. In terms of value for money Parklands is on top, the houses for me are nicer and the properties are 10-20% less. However NP has a nicer feel to it in that it is on top of a hill with little other housing around. It is also closer to town. 10-12 mins by public transport compared to 20-25 from Parklands.

I would imagine they are both nice places to live any if you are picking one or the other you should make your choice based on which of the main factors is most important to you.

Originally posted by Lib1
Wait a min... where's all that defensiveness just come from?

Read my messages on this thread again- I've done nothing but praise the Norfolk Park development !

For example: "At the end of the day developments such as Parklands and the Norfolk Park development are useful ways for young graduate professionals like myself and my husband to get onto the property ladder without totally skinting ourselves in the process! They are examples of 'brownfield' sites that the government wishes to utilise in order to help those like myself who just want to make a start in life".

The only negative thing that I said about the NF development is that it is much more expensive than Parklands (which it is!) and it is also near to a council estate (which it is and which the Parklands development also is).

I only mentioned these issues because March said that she was concerned about the Manor council estate being close to Parklands. I also said that I was NOT stating the fact that the NF development is close to council estates in order to 'diss' the NF development!

Crikey, people- calm down- I'm on your side!

Read March's message and then put my comments into context. Bertie Basset has a habit of twisting my words and then falling flat on his face- I can't believe that any of you fell for such an obvious and cheap attack on me.


Lib1

Erm...

People go on and on about how safe the Norfolk Park development is... have they not seen the council estate just up and around the corner from the development? The tower blocks have gone, but the estate doesn't look like it's going anywhere! In addition, the Arbourthorne council estate is just around the corner!

I'm not trying to diss the Norfolk Park development, but for the prices and for the surrounding council area... overall, they're a rip off in comparison to the Parklands.


Not trying to fight with you but it's a bit of a misrepresentation. The remaining 'council' properties to the north of the NP development are small in number compared to the new development. In addition they are not owned by the council, rather by a housing association.

There is no area that is wholly perfect except for Fulwood and Ranmoor perhaps (right t020?). Royal Plaza on West Street had its downsides and even that was next door to a small block of council flats, which didn't affect the value or the living experience.

Yeah Norfolk Park is more expensive but despite your points to the contrary Lib, I think there are reasons for that. Some people can afford the extra amount and I'm not sure that they'd consider it a 'rip off' to pay more.

Cheers

Peter

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin

There is no area that is wholly perfect except for Fulwood and Ranmoor perhaps (right t020?).

No, not ANY area is perfect because it's impossible to define what a perfect area would be. I suppose zero crime would be in most definitions, but that's virtually impossible. Aesthetics are subjective.

However, some areas are a lot more perfect than others, e.g. the south western suburbs of Sheffield.

Originally posted by t020
No, not ANY area is perfect because it's impossible to define what a perfect area would be. I suppose zero crime would be in most definitions, but that's virtually impossible. Aesthetics are subjective.

However, some areas are a lot more perfect than others, e.g. the south western suburbs of Sheffield.

And do you know something t020 - I agree with you. They are lovely areas in many ways especially if you're after a pastoral settled lifestyle. And if, of course, you can afford it! But I have lived in comparable areas in London (Richmond & Kew) and while the aesthetic was lush, I needed something a little more urban and funky. I found beauty in the imperfection of, say, Hackney.


But yes in terms of sheer prettiness and social standing, you can't beat the south-west corner.

I'm extremely happy to be in Norfolk Park however.

Originally posted by E-Man Groovin

I'm extremely happy to be in Norfolk Park however.

What an endorsement for Norfolk Park! :thumbsup:

Now, t020 on 08 May you posted "As a compromise I might take a drive around the place some time soon". Come on t020, put some petrol in the tank, and drive over. There's a number of us monitoring this thread for the results of your look around.

Originally posted by redrobbo

Now, t020 on 08 May you posted "As a compromise I might take a drive around the place some time soon". Come on t020, put some petrol in the tank, and drive over. There's a number of us monitoring this thread for the results of your look around.


I'll be doing so soon. Perhaps I'll take 1 trip in the day and 1 after dark, just to get a real measure of the place.

Originally posted by redrobbo
What an endorsement for Norfolk Park! :thumbsup:

Now, t020 on 08 May you posted "As a compromise I might take a drive around the place some time soon". Come on t020, put some petrol in the tank, and drive over. There's a number of us monitoring this thread for the results of your look around.

And i'll be waiting to pinch the wheels off your car as soon as you stop :heyhey: :heyhey:

Not to mention syphon the petrol! :hihi: :hihi:

Quoth t020...

Not to mention the fact that Parklands is right next to the Manor estate, one of the most notorious in the country.


there you are, again, t020, spouting outdated info...

No, like NP, the Manor is no longer worthy of that ephithet.

Because of the regeneration being done, and the council cracking down on asb (Anti Social Behaviour), the Manor is much better than it used to be.

Even 10 yrs ago, when I was living on the Manor, crime there had been reduced by 40%, in less than a year, when the SY police introduced their helicopter, to counter the joyriding etc that had been going on.

this sort of thing is very effective.

anyway this thread is about NP, and the benefits of living there.
so here's a repeat of my earlier points

1) it's an up and coming area,
2) it's being regenerated beyond recognition,
3) the new houses are excellent, and they are reasonably priced
4) the old tower blocks are gone, paving he way for even more new housing,
5) it's close to town
6) good links to buses and trams
7) good sense of community
8) beautiful views of the city and the countryside beyond
9) great heritage park on the doorstep

PT

Plain Talker, Is there ANY place you haven't lived ?

Originally posted by t020
I'll be doing so soon. Perhaps I'll take 1 trip in the day and 1 after dark, just to get a real measure of the place.

Good on you t020!:thumbsup:

Do stop the car and take a look at the view from the top of Kenninghall - especially at night. Oh and don't forget to take a stroll in the listed Heritage Park during the day (and visit the fabulous Centre in the Park whilst you are there).

Enjoy your visits! :clap:

Don't forget to let us know your views. We are waiting to hear
from you!

Red

Originally posted by Plain Talker

there you are, again, t020, spouting outdated info...

No, like NP, the Manor is no longer worthy of that ephithet.

Because of the regeneration being done, and the council cracking down on asb (Anti Social Behaviour), the Manor is much better than it used to be.

Even 10 yrs ago, when I was living on the Manor, crime there had been reduced by 40%, in less than a year, when the SY police introduced their helicopter, to counter the joyriding etc that had been going on.

this sort of thing is very effective.


PT

PS Maybe you ought to look around The Manor and Parklands too?

Red

Originally posted by Plain Talker
Quoth t020...


there you are, again, t020, spouting outdated info...

No, like NP, the Manor is no longer worthy of that ephithet.

Because of the regeneration being done, and the council cracking down on asb (Anti Social Behaviour), the Manor is much better than it used to be.

Even 10 yrs ago, when I was living on the Manor, crime there had been reduced by 40%, in less than a year, when the SY police introduced their helicopter, to counter the joyriding etc that had been going on.



I don't think even you can say that the Manor isn't a notorious council estate, come on. You need a reality check. Either that or you're seriously deluded.

no, t020, I'm not "seriously deluded".... I "seriously" used to live on the manor, and it is nothing like as bad as it's painted.

there are worse areas to live in than norfolk park, and manor....

and as I have said in previous posts,

I have lived in both these areas, so it's not like I am speaking as someone with no experience, whatsoever, of what they are like.

I have had first-hand experience, of both estates, and i can honestly say that they are not the hellholes you keep trying to make out they are, with hearsay and second or third hand experiences.

I lived on manor, quite contentedly, even 11 yrs ago when it was branded in the media as "the worst estate in britain" TM. It is media hype, and you have swallowed it, despite the confirmations to the contrary, of people posting on here telling of their own experiences of pleasant lives in those districts.

you never let the facts get in the way of a good swipe at these districts.

PT

Originally posted by t020
I don't think even you can say that the Manor isn't a notorious council estate, come on.

Oh t020, you're doing it again! Why not take up my suggestion of visiting both Norfolk Park and Manor, and suspend judgement until then?

Originally posted by t020

You need a reality check. Either that or you're seriously deluded.

Tautological. If someone needs a reality check it is because they are deluded.

However, that apart, you are perilously close to name calling.
From my observations, this is not your style, and I am quite shocked that you have descended to this level of debate. Maybe the hour is late and you are tired.

Plain Talker deserves a little respect for her arguments and observations, not this kind of abuse. Poor show t020. Why not apologise, and resume your usual erudite style of debate?

Originally posted by Plain Talker
no, t020, I'm not "seriously deluded".... I "seriously" used to live on the manor, and it is nothing like as bad as it's painted.

there are worse areas to live in than norfolk park, and manor....



Keyword: "painted". So you concede that the general impression people "paint" is that the area is bad - now go and look up the word "notorious" in the dictionary.

PS. Which areas do you think are worse than the Manor?

Originally posted by redrobbo

However, that apart, you are perilously close to name calling.
From my observations, this is not your style, and I am quite shocked that you have descended to this level of debate. Maybe the hour is late and you are tired.

Plain Talker deserves a little respect for her arguments and observations, not this kind of abuse. Poor show t020. Why not apologise, and resume your usual erudite style of debate?

I didn't intend it in an offensive way, but I apologise if that's how it read.

Originally posted by t020


PS. Which areas do you think are worse than the Manor?

By answering this question, new people are going to be drawn into this debate. Something i fear we don't need IMO

If people really need to know the answer to this question i suggest they study the local newspapers over a period of time.

I think you twist them, I just highlight it... :loopy:

Originally posted by Lib1
Wait a min... where's all that defensiveness just come from?

Read my messages on this thread again- I've done nothing but praise the Norfolk Park development !

For example: "At the end of the day developments such as Parklands and the Norfolk Park development are useful ways for young graduate professionals like myself and my husband to get onto the property ladder without totally skinting ourselves in the process! They are examples of 'brownfield' sites that the government wishes to utilise in order to help those like myself who just want to make a start in life".

The only negative thing that I said about the NF development is that it is much more expensive than Parklands (which it is!) and it is also near to a council estate (which it is and which the Parklands development also is).

I only mentioned these issues because March said that she was concerned about the Manor council estate being close to Parklands. I also said that I was NOT stating the fact that the NF development is close to council estates in order to 'diss' the NF development!

Crikey, people- calm down- I'm on your side!

Read March's message and then put my comments into context. Bertie Basset has a habit of twisting my words and then falling flat on his face- I can't believe that any of you fell for such an obvious and cheap attack on me.


Lib1 :loopy:

t020, i won't name or shame the districts that I think have worse problems than Manor or Norfolk Park, because that will just perpetuate the problems, as is happening on the np/ manor debates.

Some areas I am thinking of, like you, I have no experience of actually living in, so am not qualified to speak on them, and will therefore keep my opinion on them, to myself.

In any case, I am quite sure that there are people working in those districts, just as hard, at grass roots level, to make a difference, as folk have been doing in Manor and NP.

Other areas that am thinking of, that I consider to be worse than manor and NP are not even in Sheffield. (I have lived briefly, elsewhere, but I much prefer to live in Sheffield, the city of my birth)

Some areas I would not consider living in, are because of their terrain (eg very steep hills such as the Blake Street, Walkley area) or because they are very remote (eg Stocksbridge, where I have lived)

I love living where i am now, as it is quiet, and it is so convenient for town.

and thank you for your apology, which is appreciated.

PT

Originally posted by t020
Not to mention the fact that Parklands is right next to the Manor estate, one of the most notorious in the country. Seems an odd line of "attack" for Lib1 to be making on Norfolk Park.

errrrrrrrm....I don't live in Sheffield, but in Kent (well, in a south-east London Borough really, but our postal area is Kent....lol), and I had never heard of Norfolk Park, Norfolk Manor, or Parklands in Sheffield until I saw this thread, but I have heard of "notorious" places in other parts of the country...so T020, I don't think that the Manor estate is "one of the most notorious in the country".....in fact, I don't think many people outside Sheffield have even heard of it.

This seems to be yet another example of you posting without really thinking first....we all do it, but usually most of us learn from our mistakes.

Originally posted by Ann_x
so T020, I don't think that the Manor estate is "one of the most notorious in the country".....in fact, I don't think many people outside Sheffield have even heard of it.

This seems to be yet another example of you posting without really thinking first....we all do it, but usually most of us learn from our mistakes.



Nope, afraid not. The Manor is pretty notorious, not only in Sheffield. It was featured heavily in a few BBC series of Traffic Cops, which broadcasts nationwide, and it regularly features in regional news programmes (in a bad way). So, whilst there is no measure of "notoriety", I'd certainly say the Manor does have a notoriety about it. I guess it's more like another example of me posting what I think and being honest.


no·to·ri·ous
adj.
Known widely and usually unfavorably; infamous

We have 2 students working for us who have accomodation up there and regretably ( they both say that they really like Sheffield) they have both had burglaries.

Originally posted by t020
Nope, afraid not. The Manor is pretty notorious, not only in Sheffield. It was featured heavily in a few BBC series of Traffic Cops, which broadcasts nationwide, and it regularly features in regional news programmes (in a bad way). So, whilst there is no measure of "notoriety", I'd certainly say the Manor does have a notoriety about it. I guess it's more like another example of me posting what I think and being honest.


no·to·ri·ous
adj.
Known widely and usually unfavorably; infamous
Being featured in a TV programme a few times doesn't make it notorious, even if it was shown natiionally. The town I live in was featured in the same TV programme, but I could never realistically say that it was notorious. Have you ever heard of a place called Port Isaac (which is not where I live) which has, for at least 40 years, been featured in several TV programmes? It doesn't have that much notoriety; in fact most people in other parts of the country haven't heard of it, unless they've visited it. Also, being on a regional news programme does not make it "notorious all over the country". The Manor may have notoriety locally, and I can't argue with you on that point, because I don't live locally to the Manor, but I think you will find that it's a long way off national notoriety.

btw, what is your point by giving the dictionary definition of notorious....it doesn't change reality!

T020, why do you continue to use hearsay and outdated statistics (and now a dictionary definition) to try prove statements you make? You have admitted that you haven't been to the area since its redevelopment, which obviously IMO shows that you can't substantiate the statements you have made in this thread!

Originally posted by Ann_x
Being featured in a TV programme a few times doesn't make it notorious, even if it was shown natiionally. The town I live in was featured in the same TV programme, but I could never realistically say that it was notorious. Have you ever heard of a place called Port Isaac (which is not where I live) which has, for at least 40 years, been featured in several TV programmes? It doesn't have that much notoriety; in fact most people in other parts of the country haven't heard of it, unless they've visited it. Also, being on a regional news programme does not make it "notorious all over the country". The Manor may have notoriety locally, and I can't argue with you on that point, because I don't live locally to the Manor, but I think you will find that it's a long way off national notoriety.

btw, what is your point by giving the dictionary definition of notorious....it doesn't change reality!

T020, why do you continue to use hearsay and outdated statistics (and now a dictionary definition) to try prove statements you make? You have admitted that you haven't been to the area since its redevelopment, which obviously IMO shows that you can't substantiate the statements you have made in this thread!


With all due respect, you live in Kent so I think I know more about the Manor estate than you do. The Manor area hasn't been "redeveloped" as you seem to think it has, it has just had a new estate built next to it called "Parklands". Speak to any police officer or most people in Sheffield/ Yorkshire and ask them about the Manor estate and see what kind of a response you get. Also, it wasn't featured "a few times" in Traffic Cops. I believe there were around 3 series of the programme filmed in South Yorkshire, all of which 6 episodes long, and the Manor featured heavily in each one, with commentary describing it being a notorious council estate. This was a *national* programme, so people watching from around the programme will have heard what the place is like and seen for themselves. Just because not every single person in the whole UK knows about it doesn't mean it has a *degree* of national notoriety (which is why I provided you with the definition - to ensure you grasped the concept that notoriety doesn't have to constitute 100% of the population knowing about it, and in fact doesn't state to which degree of infamy constitutes notoriety).

Why do I use "hearsay"? Because we were debating notoriety, which by its very definition is based on hearsay. Why do I use outdated statistics? Well, they're from 2002 so not that old, but I can only use what's available to me and until the Sheffield Council provides a more up to date set of crime stats I can't do much about it, but believe me (I live hear, read the local newspapers, watch the local news) they will show pretty much the same story.

PS. My claim of a *degree of* national notoriety can be backed up by its featuring in a prime time, BBC1 programme watched by around 9 million viewers nationally. The onus is on you to dispute the claim, and "I live in Kent and I haven't heard of it" doesn't quite cut it.

t020-

I've made this point earlier in another thread, but maybe the people that watched Traffic Cops assumed that the whole of Sheffield was notorious for car crime- I'm sure that the specific district of Manor did not stick in their minds... just a thought.

Lib1

PS- Nationally notorious estates:

Mosside (Having lived in Mosside for my work placement year during my undergrad... living in Manor will be a walk in the park!)
Longsight
Hackney
Brixton...


... Outside South Yorkshire, no one's heard of Manor! Even on the local South Yorkshire TV news, Manor is rarely featured- most crime which is featured seems to occur in Lincoln and Scunthorpe.


PPS- To E-Man Grooving

In comparison to the Parklands, Norfolk Park does seem to be very expensive. People talk about the tower blocks being knocked down- but the area near to the Norfolk Park dentist and the 'Horse and Lion' pub is quite still fairly dubious. To me, these areas are equal to the Manor council estate which is near to the Parklands.

If you remember from my previous discussion thread 'What's so special about Park Grange Mount?', besides the 'a place is worth as much a someone will pay for it' mantra- no one adequately explained why the NP Development was so much more expensive than the Parklands development. Although you can (just about!) walk into the city centre from the NP development, I'm sure that due to the long distance (and the hill!) most people would probably drive/ take public transport anyway!

Maybe it was unfair for me to use the term 'rip-off', but the description isn't that far off the truth. I'm not saying any of this to 'knock' the NP development- I'm just explaining what I meant when I sent the previous post that the NP folk have been offended by.

Lib1

Originally posted by Lib1
t020-

I've made this point earlier in another thread, but maybe the people that watched Traffic Cops assumed that the whole of Sheffield was notorious for car crime- I'm sure that the specific district of Manor did not stick in their minds... just a thought.

Lib1

PS- Nationally notorious estates:

Mosside (Having lived in Mosside for my work placement year during my undergrad... living in Manor will be a walk in the park!)
Longsight
Hackney
Brixton...


... Outside South Yorkshire, no one's heard of Manor! Even on the local South Yorkshire TV news, Manor is rarely featured- most crime which is featured seems to occur in Lincoln and Scunthorpe.


The Manor was repeatedly specifically referred to several times throughout 3 series of Traffic Cops, broadcast to around 9 million viewers nationwide. I don't think either of us are qualified to speculate as to which parts of the programme the viewing public did or didn't take in. The message was sent to at least 9 million people nationally though.

PS. Notoriety, as I've said, is difficult to assess. There are varying degrees of notoriety and it's also quite subjective, but I still maintain that the Manor has a degree of notoriety. Outside of South Yorkshire, as I have said, people will have heard of the Manor through TV programmes, including Traffic Cops. I've shown how it has been "heard of" by at least 9 million people nationwide, so can you back up your argument that "outside of South Yorkshire, no-one's heard of the Manor"? Perhaps you should conduct a survey?

Originally posted by t020
The Manor was repeatedly specifically referred to several times throughout 3 series of Traffic Cops, broadcast to around 9 million viewers nationwide. I don't think either of us are qualified to speculate as to which parts of the programme the viewing public did or didn't take in. The message was sent to at least 9 million people nationally though.

PS. Notoriety, as I've said, is difficult to assess. There are varying degrees of notoriety and it's also quite subjective, but I still maintain that the Manor has a degree of notoriety. Outside of South Yorkshire, as I have said, people will have heard of the Manor through TV programmes, including Traffic Cops. I've shown how it has been "heard of" by at least 9 million people nationwide, so can you back up your argument that "outside of South Yorkshire, no-one's heard of the Manor"? Perhaps you should conduct a survey?

"People heard of Manor through traffic cops..."

Many different areas were featured in the programme "Traffic Cops", and other such reality shows, both within South Yorkshire, and in other police authorities.

the M1 featured, prominently...

Does this, by default make the M1 notorious?

again, these shows were filmed, often, five or more years ago. look at teh satellite channel show "Streetcrime UK"...

it shows incidents, nation wide, from as long ago as 1995/6...

Areas can, and do change, over time, and not always for the worse!

PT

Originally posted by Lib1
PS- Nationally notorious estates:

Mosside (Having lived in Mosside for my work placement year during my undergrad... living in Manor will be a walk in the park!)
Longsight
Hackney
Brixton...


Bahahaha! Sorry... factual correction here. Hackney is not an 'Estate' but rather a borough. If you looked up property prices in Hoxton, Shoreditch, or in the Old Street, Brick Lane or Victoria Park you'll find that many parts of Hackney are notorious for high property prices! Even some of the parts that used to be quite dodgy like Bethnal Green are very hip places to live now (a friend of mine recently bought a 2 bed apartment in Bethnal Green for £350k)..

That did amuse me though.

Ditto Brixton (not a borough but an area of London). People from outside remember the Brixton riots of 1985, but since then it has become a very hip place live because of various cool bars like Dogstar which sprung up about 10 years ago.

There are a number of notorious estates in London, two of which I had personal experience of were Stonebridge Park and Chalkhill in the North west (the latter was demolished because it was so bad) and to be fair there are some parts of Hackney (it's a huge borough) where it has been known to see people walking on the streets with firearms...

Finally Lib 1 the small cluster of housing association properties to the north of NP should not be compared to Manor because (a) there are not that many of them (b) a number of them are currently being demolished (c) once the lease on the old NP shops expires (2006/2007) new shops will be built in this area (d) I wanna buy that pub and turn it into Sheffield's best chill out lounge as it has lovely views over the city...

Originally posted by Plain Talker
"People heard of Manor through traffic cops..."

Many different areas were featured in the programme "Traffic Cops", and other such reality shows, both within South Yorkshire, and in other police authorities.

the M1 featured, prominently...

Does this, by default make the M1 notorious?

again, these shows were filmed, often, five or more years ago. look at teh satellite channel show "Streetcrime UK"...

it shows incidents, nation wide, from as long ago as 1995/6...

Areas can, and do change, over time, and not always for the worse!

PT

The M1 featured because people drove stolen/speeding cars along it. The Manor featured because people drove stolen/speeding cars TO it. There's the difference. It also regularly showed gangs of youths with their intimidating behaviour. Traffic Cops is just one example of bad exposure for the Manor, making it a notorious council estate (which, whether it's changed a bit/a lot/at all, it is still notorious). I can't believe people are trying to deny that it is, quite frankly.

Originally posted by t020
...(which, whether it's changed a bit/a lot/at all, it is still notorious). I can't believe people are trying to deny that it is, quite frankly.

10 pages ago, someone asked about the area because they want to buy a house here.

I'm not denying that this area has a bad reputation however that's because of what's happened in the past. Today, now, in 2005, that reputation is not deserved. The past doesn't matter - today matters.

Originally posted by Andy
10 pages ago, someone asked about the area because they want to buy a house here.

I'm not denying that this area has a bad reputation however that's because of what's happened in the past. Today, now, in 2005, that reputation is not deserved. The past doesn't matter - today matters.

I never said whether it's a deserved reputation or not, I'm just stating that it does exist (despite some trying to claim that it doesn't).

Originally posted by t020
I never said whether it's a deserved reputation or not, I'm just stating that it does exist (despite some trying to claim that it doesn't).

So, you've admited you've never been here. You've heard the area has a bad reputation, which you don't know if it deserves. Yet you're happy to tell someone not to live here on that basis?

Originally posted by Andy
So, you've admited you've never been here. You've heard the area has a bad reputation, which you don't know if it deserves. Yet you're happy to tell someone not to live here on that basis?

No, I've been to the Manor and I've read all the news articles surrounding it, seen the TV programmes featuring it, and the level of crime there is high. That's why I'd advise people not to live there. But the latest argument about it having a reputation - quite simply, it DOES, and that's all I was trying to say. It is notorious, whether it deserves to be now or not, it still is.

is this still going on?? the guy has prob moved here, got married, had kids and moved on by now!

the question was...'So is this a good area to live'..... maybe he shud av done a yes or no poll....

i may post a few threads myself in a while to ask about various other areas to spark every1 to have a mass brawl as per usual :)

Originally posted by t020
No, I've been to the Manor and I've read all the news articles surrounding it, seen the TV programmes featuring it, and the level of crime there is high.

So that's the Manor. What's your reason for advising against living at Norfolk Park?

yet again, 020, i will remind you that these tv images of areas like NP and manor are:-

Media hype,
just one aspect/example of life on these estates,
hopelessly outdated,

think about it...

it would make for the shortest TV programme in history if they were to not show these sort of images, when producing a show based around such images, surely? the producers want the "action" that fits their premise..... so they will discard footage that shows everything as "workaday, and mundane", cos it's the "action" that brings the viewers in.

I would have thought this would be obvious to someone of your supposed level of intelligence?

it's like that show on the cruise ships, that was popular a few years ago...

it would have made for a very short show if they hadn't focussed on certain things.

or the one about traffic wardens... scenes in that show were actually, later, admitted to have been "staged", in order to "spice up" the show.

now I'm not suggesting the show about manor is "staged", but what it IS, is cleverly juxtaposed scenes, which tell the story as the producers wish to portray it.

It's happened in the show "wife swap"... - the fights and conflict were highlighted, and made "more-of", because the tension is what "sells the newspapers" and "pulls the viewers in"...

As has been said before, the best opinions on what it's like to live in Manor or NP, will, surely to goodness, come from the people who are actually LIVING/working there, or who HAVE lived /workedthere? such as me, redrobbo, lib, andy, e-man, etc. People who have the experience of life there, and can give a personal account of life there.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming!

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
yet again, 020, i will remind you that these tv images of areas like NP and manor are:-

Media hype,
just one aspect/example of life on these estates,
hopelessly outdated,


But all that is irrelevant - whether it's hype or not it still creates notoriety, which is the point I was making. Put simply, the Manor is a notorious council estate. That's all I was pointing out after Ann_x tried to dispute the claim. I don't think that you can admit media hype surrounds the Manor and then deny it's notoriety, can you?

Originally posted by Andy
So that's the Manor. What's your reason for advising against living at Norfolk Park?

I wouldn't want to live there, so I'd only advise people to live in places where I'd actually be happy to live myself. If I advised someone to live where I wouldn't want to, I'd feel as though I was cheating them. Do you honestly believe there's absolutely no reason to NOT live at Norfolk Park and that this thread should only have attracted positive responses?

Originally posted by t020
But all that is irrelevant - whether it's hype or not it still creates notoriety, which is the point I was making. Put simply, the Manor is a notorious council estate. That's all I was pointing out after Ann_x tried to dispute the claim. I don't think that you can admit media hype surrounds the Manor and then deny it's notoriety, can you?

Yes, t020,

You have it half-right....

You CAN'T deny the media hype, but you CAN deny the notoriety when it's as a result of that hype.

That is what we, who have actual experience of the district(s) in question are trying to get through to you.

The districts have been found to be more than acceptable in which to live and work, by most of us who have responded to this thread...

You seem to be about the only one who persists in perpetuating the bad name(s) given to them.

We have all, virtually to a "man", said "these districts have turned themselves around, after a decline, and are now becoming good districts in which to live and work"

You persist, for want of a better description, in plugging your fingers in your ears, and singing "la, la, la, I'm not listening....!"

That's, frankly, the only way I can describe the way you are responding to the positive comments on here about NP and Manor.

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
Yes, t020,

You have it half-right....

You CAN'T deny the media hype, but you CAN deny the notoriety when it's as a result of that hype.



No you can't deny the notoriety because notoriety isn't concerned about whether it's root is through hype or whether the hype is true or not. Notoriety is simply a reputation, usually used in a negative way, and the Manor has that.

Originally posted by t020
I wouldn't want to live there, so I'd only advise people to live in places where I'd actually be happy to live myself. If I advised someone to live where I wouldn't want to, I'd feel as though I was cheating them. Do you honestly believe there's absolutely no reason to NOT live at Norfolk Park and that this thread should only have attracted positive responses?

I'll answer this question if I may, with a resounding YES! Yes, there is no reason to not live in Norfolk Park.

t020 - you are out on a limb. You are entitled to your view, but you have been shown to be prejudiced in your views.

You were twice challenged to visit Norfolk Park and be shown around. But you faint heartedly said you'd have a drive around sometime instead - which you still haven't done, despite a reminder from me.

I have never denied that Norfolk Park had a bad reputation. It did. It has not got one now though. Of the numerous posters on this thread, only you maintain that it still has a "notorious" reputation.

Bit like Toxeth still has a "notorious" reputation (riots, 03 July 1981)? Or the Gorbals still has a "notorious" reputation (gang fights with open razors; poor housing, circa 1930)?

Goodness me, I wouldn't want to live in Manchester myself, it does, after all, have a "notorious" reputation (civil disturbance called the Perterloo massacre, 16 August 1819)!

Gosh, t020, take off your blinkers and get out and about, instead of sitting in an ivory tower pontificating on what constitutes "notorious" . I think your totally isolated position is best summed up here -

Originally posted by Andy

So, you've admitted you've never been here. You've heard the area has a bad reputation, which you don't know if it deserves. Yet you're happy to tell someone not to live here on that basis?

Originally posted by redrobbo
I'll answer this question if I may, with a resounding YES! Yes, there is no reason to not live in Norfolk Park.

t020 - you are out on a limb. You are entitled to your view, but you have been shown to be prejudiced in your views.

You were twice challenged to visit Norfolk Park and be shown around. But you faint heartedly said you'd have a drive around sometime instead - which you still haven't done, despite a reminder from me.

I have never denied that Norfolk Park had a bad reputation. It did. It has not got one now though. Of the numerous posters on this thread, only you maintain that it still has a "notorious" reputation.

Bit like Toxeth still has a "notorious" reputation (riots, 03 July 1981)? Or the Gorbals still has a "notorious" reputation (gang fights with open razors; poor housing, circa 1930)?

Goodness me, I wouldn't want to live in Manchester myself, it does, after all, have a "notorious" reputation (civil disturbance called the Perterloo massacre, 16 August 1819)!

Gosh, t020, take off your blinkers and get out and about, instead of sitting in an ivory tower pontificating on what constitutes "notorious" . I think your totally isolated position is best summed up here -

No, I don't think Norfolk Park is notorious, I was saying that the Manor is notorious. I will be taking a visit to Norfolk Park when I find time to do so, don't worry about that one.

Originally posted by t020
No, I don't think Norfolk Park is notorious,

Nothing like being consistent in your posts t020......

Originally posted by t020

From an unbiased (I have no houses there to rent out) point of view, I'd advise you not to live around the Norfolk Park/ Manor area as it's notoriously bad.

Originally posted by t020

Crime is higher in Norfolk Park than most places.

Originally posted by t020

Norfolk Park.....has a fairly bad reputation amongst people,


Having just shot yourself in the foot, you've completely lost all credibility.

To E-Man Grooving

"Finally Lib 1 the small cluster of housing association properties to the north of NP should not be compared to Manor because (a) there are not that many of them (b) a number of them are currently being demolished (c) once the lease on the old NP shops expires (2006/2007) new shops will be built in this area (d) I wanna buy that pub and turn it into Sheffield's best chill out lounge as it has lovely views over the city..."

... erm... what about the Arbourthorne estate??? It's as close the the NP development as the 'rough' Manor council area is close to Parklands. The council houses directly surrounding the Parklands development seem to be well maintained and have probably been bought. It's the area further down the Prince of Wales Road that t020 describes as 'notorious'.

Lib1

Originally posted by redrobbo
Nothing like being consistent in your posts t020......





Having just shot yourself in the foot, you've completely lost all credibility.


Those posts were made at the beginning of the thread. Due to the arguments put forward by people, I have adjusted my position about Norfolk Park but still maintain that the Manor IS notorious. Instead of being smarmy and personally insulting, why not be pleased that you've changed my mind on something? Or am I not allowed to?

This doesn't really add anything constructive to the thread but before I moved to Sheffield a couple of years ago I knew of the Manor Estate and it's reputation, as did my family. There was a TV programme called something like estates from hell all about it. While the programme was in the typical tabloid journalist style it did have interesting footage of the goings on around the estate.

Oh for god's sake I can't believe how heated everyone is getting in this post! All T020 did was post his opinion, and now he has suffered pages and pages of abuse.

Personally I am beginning to come to the opinion of certain forummers, that if they are any where near as aggressive and argumentative in real life as they have been in this thread, no wonder they've never had any trouble in dodgy areas, as I certainly wouldn't want to cross THEM on a dark night!

Personally I think that the new developments on NP look great - a couple of my friends live there and love it. But you do have to admit that it's a completely different atmosphere to other areas of Sheffield, and it depends where you feel most comfortable really. So stop blasting people for criticizing this area - YOU might like it but that doesn't mean you have to force everyone else into the same opinion.

Originally posted by t020
Do you honestly believe there's absolutely no reason to NOT live at Norfolk Park and that this thread should only have attracted positive responses?

I can't think of any reasons not to live here, but I'm sure there are some. There are probably reasons not to live in Dore, or Ecclesall, or Crookes or any other part of this city too.

Originally posted by Andy
I can't think of any reasons not to live here, but I'm sure there are some. There are probably reasons not to live in Dore, or Ecclesall, or Crookes or any other part of this city too.

Well, I know where I'd rather live put it that way!!!

BTW, well said KATIEB_23! And thank you. I was beginning to think that the world had gone mad until you brought your words of sanity.

Originally posted by KATIEB_23
Oh for god's sake I can't believe how heated everyone is getting in this post! All T020 did was post his opinion, and now he has suffered pages and pages of abuse.



t020 has only been challenged to support his out-dated opinions, and to provide supporting evidence for his contentions. He failed miserably.

".....t020 has suffered pages and pages of abuse"? Let's see who has been abusive.......Originally posted by t020
You need a reality check. Either that or you're seriously deluded.

Originally posted by redrobbo

....you are perilously close to name calling.
From my observations, this is not your style, and I am quite shocked that you have descended to this level of debate.

Plain Talker deserves a little respect for her arguments and observations, not this kind of abuse. Poor show t020.


Originally posted by t020

I didn't intend it in an offensive way, but I apologise if that's how it read.


I rest my case.

Originally posted by t020
I have adjusted my position about Norfolk Park......Instead of being smarmy and personally insulting, why not be pleased that you've changed my mind on something? Or am I not allowed to?

Of course you are allowed to change your opinion t020, and I'm sure that the many posters on this thread "Norfolk Park area, good? bad?" are delighted to know it.

I do not believe that I have at any time been "smarmy and personally insulting" towards you. At all times, I, and the many other posters on this thread, have challenged you on your outdated views about Norfolk Park, seeking to know how you could justify your stand. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, you persisently maintained your original views, until this post - where you have indicated that you have now "adjusted" your views.

Andy challenged you to accompany him on a visit to Norfolk Park, and I too offered to show you around and even buy you lunch at the Centre in the Park. Hardly the actions of someone who is smarmy and personally insulting I would have thought - but I will let other readers be the judge of that.

If I can be presumptious, I would like you to change your mind over one other thing in respect of Norfolk Park. I hope I may still buy you lunch at the Centre in the Park. Please PM me, if you would like to take up my offer, and we can arrange a date.

Lastly, yesterday, I took the liberty of lifting a quote of yours from this thread, and posted it on another thread: "Is Crookes a good area?" I hope you will look it up.

*Yawns*

Ok, everyone helped to slightly adjust my views on Norfolk Park (although my latest "battle" was supporting the view that the Manor is a notorious estate.... one would've thought that this was obvious when considering the definition of "notorious" and all of the negative press coverage the place gets, but I'm sure certain members would argue the toss if I posted that blue was blue). I have my opinions on the matter, I'm FULLY entitled to them, and when people ask for advice I will give my thoughts on the matter, whether anyone else agrees or not. That's the last I have to say on this thread - please don't bother picking little bits out of what I've said and trying to get a response because I've had enough. Katieb_23 summed this thread up the best.

I agree with t020. Maybe time to put this thread to bed.

Hey - t020 and I have agreed on something else! :smile:

Mod. Note

Who am I to stand in the way of the Vox populi?

Closed and left for viewing.

Joe :)