We had an offer accepted for a property and had begun arranging our mortgage when we received a call saying that the outbidded people were upset and had increased their offer.
Apparently, by law, the estate agent has to tell the vendor and he then wanted to go to best and final offers.
We'd been told the house was effectively ours since Tuesday, no legal papers about it though obviously.
So, now we're in a bidding war which I resent. We have twins on the way and a new house is utterly crucial to us.
This is actually the second time this has happened to us. Morally I refuse to go any further but my partner is pressing ahead.
Why are people so greedy and go back on accepted offers days later.
I'm livid and I wish we had a legal standpoint to force the seller to stick to his original word, why has the housing market become so immoral?

if you were selling something wouldn't you want the most money for it that you could get?

nothing is final until the contracts are exchanged. It's a bit unpleasant, but that's the way things can go.

If you were the seller and someone offerend you another 5 grand would you honestly turn it down ?

The legal obligation is immediate upon accepting in new zealand I think. I don't know why we can't do that in this country. It is an immoral practice. Of course if someone offers you more you should take it but you can cost someone a lot of money gazumping them. It makes the whole ordeal enormously risky.

It may be legal but it's not honourable.

As for whether I'd turn down an extra 5,000 - well, my word is my bond. If I say 'yes' then I'll stick to it. It's called honour.

The first house we tried to buy in Sheffield was seen by a couple who put in the asking price just before we viewed. The owner agreed the price and that was that - we could have easily outbid the person who got the house but the seller was determined to go by his sense of fairplay and not the commission of the estate agent.

We all bitch about these things, but whilst we play the game we're all responsible.

Joe

i fully understand how you feel, i bought my house during the massive "boom" 2 years ago abd this actually happened to me 7 times!!! i was desperate for a house and was very stressed.. luckily one nice estate agent managed to talk the lady i was buying off into accepting my lower offer(she played the sympathy card) but to be honest if i was selling my house and a higher offer came in i would do the same, i know its harsh but its not really greed, if you have the potential to make more and pay off one more debt or take a holiday would you not take it? if you were selling and same was offered to you,its more financial security for your children.

I wish I lived in NZ then, this really rubs me up the wrong way.
Yes I would want as much money as I could get for a property, but not at the downfall of my morals. I've kicked myself for letting things go in the past but I can rest easily knowing that I did the right thing.
Even having best and final offers in the first instance would have been more honest if not still slightly immoral.
It's people like this who are raising the property prices and causing problems, it's time a law was put in place to protect buyers and immoral practice.

In other countries if you get gazumped, you are given 10% of the sale price, I think we should do the same.

I agree, there's no other market that operates in the way the housing market does. Its a strange arrangement. Particularly in sheffield where you go to last and final offers and have no idea what anyone else is offering. I put 20000 over the asking price on my house because I was sick of being out bid! Maybe we should use an auction system.

It's only the same as buying something on E-bay, they have a starting price and everyone tries to out-bid each other.

It's not nice when you get outbid, but it feels realy good when you do it to someone else.

Originally posted by nick2
It's only the same as buying something on E-bay, they have a starting price and everyone tries to out-bid each other.

It's not nice when you get outbid, but it feels realy good when you do it to someone else.

The difference on ebay is that a final price is reached which is immediately legally binding. Neither party can then change there minds. You can pull out of a housing sale at any point until exchange of contracts i.e. just before money is transferred.

But the difference with e-Bay is that you can go just over the last bid instead of 1000's over because at least the price is displayed and there are often a lot of hints in the previous bids.
And if you have broadband you can bid at the last second and there's no chance of anyone floating in and stinging you yet again.
Those extra thousands are our babies cot beds instead of just cots (saving us money later) and the chance to have a new carpet in the baby bedroom instead of coping with the dirty old ratty one currently in the house, a new fitted oven instead of the health hazard currently installed.
Even having easy clean lino or laminate in the kitchen so that we don't have to scrape baby mush off the carpet that's in there. It's all important and practical, not luxurious.

Originally posted by Zebra
Those extra thousands are our babies cot beds instead of just cots (saving us money later) and the chance to have a new carpet in the baby bedroom instead of coping with the dirty old ratty one currently in the house, a new fitted oven instead of the health hazard currently installed.
Even having easy clean lino or laminate in the kitchen so that we don't have to scrape baby mush off the carpet that's in there. It's all important and practical, not luxurious.

Not wanting to sound harsh, but I always wonder why people have kids when they can't afford them.
I've also noticed that each child seems to require a move to a bigger house with at least two more bedrooms, I don't know why this is.

We aren't in that position, we live in a rented 2 up 2 down but the second bedroom is tiny and certainly cannot fit 2 babies in. A mortage would prevent us wasting money at least!
The house we want is also 2 bedroomed so your assumptions are incorrect.
We have money in the bank but we aren't stupid enough to spend it all. If the boiler breaks down when we have babies it will be of utmost importance to have it fixed.
If the babies are early and in incubators in the special care unit (and probably will be) we need money to cover my partners income since I have no doubt he would want to be with the babies and not fretting at work.
We will not waste all our money on some blokes greed (it is his second property at least). We are planning for all eventualities and ensuring we are covered in emergencies.
We can afford a house and children, what we cannot afford is the limitless greed of some people.

Originally posted by nick2
Not wanting to sound harsh, but I always wonder why people have kids when they can't afford them.
I've also noticed that each child seems to require a move to a bigger house with at least two more bedrooms, I don't know why this is.

Because if you wait until you can afford them the human race would die out?

That is rather a stupid sentiment, if I may say so. Having an extra mouth to feed is very expensive whether you are loaded or skint. What do you suggest, move to a big house and get it all kitted out as a dwelling suitable for children and only have kids when you've got it all done and dusted?

I take it you don't have kids?

Originally posted by spiffymonkey
What do you suggest, move to a big house and get it all kitted out as a dwelling suitable for children and only have kids when you've got it all done and dusted?


That would seem like a sensible plan.

Originally posted by nick2
That would seem like a sensible plan.

I take it you've never had to deal with the maternal instinct of a female :roll:

I cannot comprehend what planet you're on.
If most people get a mortgage in their mid to late 20's on average, settle with a partner in their late 20's early 30's (as is the trend).
Move to a family sized house, work on it, save up again for children and then battle with actually conceiving, then most people would be having kids in their late 30's or early 40's.
There's a reason women are more fertile in their early 20's and why they aren't always later on.
I feel, in our financial position that we have made a very sensible move and planned our finances very appropriately. Also prioritising real needs.
I can think of many people whom this doesn't apply to, those who choose to have children regardless of having a suitable environment and those who get have unplanned pregnancies.
The whole point here is that I have financial morality and carefully planned budgets to care for my family and our immediate needs and emergencies plus a reasonable deposit and some bloke has got £££ signs flashing in his eyes instead of being an upstanding and honourable person.

Originally posted by Zebra
Move to a family sized house, work on it, save up again for children and then battle with actually conceiving, then most people would be having kids in their late 30's or early 40's.


But lots of people do have kids in their 30's or even 40's.

All I'm trying to say is that it might have been a better idea to get everything ready (ie. somewhere to live) for the baby before you got pregnant, then you wouldn't be having the hassle you are now.

I realise not all babies are "planned" .

Originally posted by nick2
That would seem like a sensible plan.

Sorry, I missed a bit... then find someone who would actually do that, rather than spending the money while they were free to do their thing. If you were going to save up for the costs of a family before starting on the venture, then only the rich or the old would have kids. We'd have a nation entirely comprised of upper class twits or kids whose parent died of old age while they were in nursery school!

Originally posted by spiffymonkey
Sorry, I missed a bit... then find someone who would actually do that, rather than spending the money while they were free to do their thing. If you were going to save up for the costs of a family before starting on the venture, then only the rich or the old would have kids. We'd have a nation entirely comprised of upper class twits or kids whose parent died of old age while they were in nursery school!

I'm sure there are loads of people who plan to have a child and actually move house first and get the nursery ready before they have the child.

I'm not suggesting people pay off their entire mortgage first.

Guys, can we keep this on topic please? The subject is supposed to be Gazumping, not family planning!

Originally posted by nick2


All I'm trying to say is that it might have been a better idea to get everything ready (ie. somewhere to live) for the baby before you got pregnant, then you wouldn't be having the hassle you are now.


Actually, we wouldn't be in the postition we are now if we'd conceived one child rather than two. Do you suggest I abort one because it's an inconvenience? We live in a house with a spare room, big enough for one baby to sleep etc but no room for toys in the lounge or a place to keep a pram etc
You seem to have missed the point,the property issue is immoral.
We have money and can afford the property, it's GREED we cannot afford.
I feel you have a narrowed view, perhaps you don't have children or a mortgage.
We are in a stronger position than most and yet you criticise that it isn't good enough!
The vendors morals are at fault, not us.

Originally posted by Zebra
Actually, we wouldn't be in the postition we are now if we'd conceived one child rather than two. Do you suggest I abort one because it's an inconvenience?

Now your just getting hysterical.

That's enough now.
This thread is about gazumping, your personal (bizarre) opinions of my life are no longer of interest.

Originally posted by Zebra
Why are people so greedy and go back on accepted offers days later.
I'm livid and I wish we had a legal standpoint to force the seller to stick to his original word, why has the housing market become so immoral?

OK, back on topic then.

I'm not sure from your post how far through the sale had gone. For instance, had solicitors got involved yet? If not, then the seller had still not actually started the process of selling the house to you, only said that he would. Verbal contracts; not worth the paper they're written on :(

Either way, I sympathise for your situation. Buying a house is far more stressful than it needs to be without this kind of hassle.

Originally posted by spiffymonkey
Because if you wait until you can afford them the human race would die out?

That is rather a stupid sentiment, if I may say so. Having an extra mouth to feed is very expensive whether you are loaded or skint. What do you suggest, move to a big house and get it all kitted out as a dwelling suitable for children and only have kids when you've got it all done and dusted?

I take it you don't have kids?

gotta say, that certainly sounds like the sensible option. I don't plan a holiday I can't afford or buy a car. I wait until the groundwork is in place.

Anyway, all this talk of moral and immoral, and laws, ha. You can't legislate for morality, what you consider immoral I might consider perfectly fair in a competative market place.
By the sounds of it the people on the 'side' of the buyer here have forgotten that they can also pull out until the last minute.

So it might be that the survey turns up something they don't like, or that the financial situation changes, or they see a nicer house elsewhere. Both sides are 'vulnerable' to the other changing their mind.
So the obvious thing to do is not make assumptions about things being final until they are actually final, ie contracts exchanged.

Maybe sellers could be clearer. I accept your offer, unless a better one comes along before we've made it legal.
Would that make everyone happier and satisfy their sense of honour and morality?

sorry, missed the fact that we were supposed to be getting away from family planning, ignore what i said, maybe we can start another thread.

Anyway, re:greed.

An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

Selling your house for the highest amount I would contend is not greed. It's common sense. If someone is offended or upset on the way, then basically tough. I'd be upset if I turned down 5 or 10k extra for the sake of having made a non binding agreement with someone else.
Both parties know that it's non binding, so there shouldn't be any hard feelings.

There is always a funny side......

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gazump.asp

Originally posted by nick2
There is always a funny side......

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gazump.asp

Actually, having spent some time trying to move house and being outbid at every turn, no, there's absolutely no funny side to being unable to live close to job and family because someone wants to make money off you.

Joe

Through my house hunting experiences I find a lot of people ten to go for properties that stretch their budgets. Then get gazumped when they can't afford to match a higher offer.

I truly believe sometimes buyers should just be a little more realistic and lower their sights to houses they could afford by gazumping in return if necessary!

Though there are lots of logical explanations and rationales being written about here, and I can see your point.... maybe as a society or just as an area we've become accepting of the unacceptable.
This doesn't happen in other areas according to what I'm reading.
Behaviour is something which if repeated often enough becomes acceptable. It should have been made unacceptable before it became the main way of doing things.
To add further insult to injury, the vendor who specified (under his reopened bidding instructions) he wanted the bidding to end today, has not made a decision. We have a meeting to sign our mortgage and instruct our solicitor tomorrow morning.
Charming - not only dishonourable but disrespectful to peoples arrangements too.

I don't see how you conclude that it is accepting of the unacceptable. I think you just had a rosy view of how things should be and you dislike having a harsh lesson about the real world.
How much money would you expect this person to throw away for the sake of a non binding verbal agreement he's made with someone he's only met once and will only do business with once?

Originally posted by Briano
Through my house hunting experiences I find a lot of people ten to go for properties that stretch their budgets. Then get gazumped when they can't afford to match a higher offer.

I truly believe sometimes buyers should just be a little more realistic and lower their sights to houses they could afford by gazumping in return if necessary!

Not sure whether that's totally possible; when attempting to move to Leeds to get a house similar to The Towers here in Sheffield would have cost about 200,000. At best, we would have managed a profit of about 50,000 from selling here, leaving a borrowing requirement of about 150,000 plus extra bits and bobs.

Now, I could get a mortgage for that amount but the repayments would be crippling. 'Downsizing' from a small 3 bedroomed terrace isn't actually very easy. What belomgings do we throw out? Should we live in an area where crime is worse? Bars on the windows? (Yes, seen this on many 160,000 houses in Leeds). Although I currently work in Sheffield I contracted in Leeds for 4 years - commuting each day - and we also have family there. Good reasons to want to move but basically we were prevented from doing so because of the greed of sellers.

The problem is that people see their house as a form of investment - a cash cow - and they're being short sighted in thinking that it will always be so.

Joe

Originally posted by nick2
There is always a funny side......

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/g/gazump.asp

I thought the cartoons were very funny. Nice one nick2 :thumbsup:

Now to be a little more serious.....

I've been gazumped numerous times in the past. It ain't nice, but that's life I'm afraid.

When it is a seller's market - then the buyer has to be aware of the pitfalls.

When it is a buyer's market though - do folk complain when they put in a lower bid than the asking price, and the seller has to accept because otherwise they can't sell (and move house, job, etc.)? I somehow can't imagine a buyer complaining then.

Thought I would throw my two pence in.
I'm Zebra's partner for those of you who don't know which is probably all of you.
The vendor should never had said he was going to accept our offer if he wasn't ready to close the sale. The fact that he said he would sell to us at the asking price when we put in the offer implies that he dosen't need the money, indeed it could almost be perceived as he was getting more than he thought he would and jumped at the chance.
To offer and take away is wrong not only does it cause upset and stress but in this case it's just greed, nothing else.

If we don't stick by our word then what else do we have? You wouldn't sell something on the forum and then the day it was due to be collected say "sorry some other guy has offered me a tenner more so you will have to give me more or you aint gettin sh*t". It's all relative, if you are about to get 80 grand(example figure) what does an extra 3k do? If there was an onward chain for the vendor then I can understand what the extra money does, people who are buying need all the money they can get in most circumstances especially as a first time buyer, but what I dont understand is how it helps when it's not the only property and you are selling it because you don't want the hassle of renting it anymore.

The stress cause massive knock on effects, not only does it affect my relationship but it effects the health of my children to come. all this because The person who is selling can't stick by his word. I guess my main point is if you can't stick by what you say don't make the offer in the first place, why should the housing market be any different. To say "that's just the way it is" is a ridiculous comment, because something is the way it is dosen't make it right. I will be glad to say when we finally find a house and it comes to selling it we will sell to the person we said we will, and until we are sure of which person that is no offer will be accepted. Easy to say now I know, but I knpow this to be true for at least when we look in the mirror both of us can say that we have never knowingly gone against our word when something has been offered, sometimes we have gone out of our way to ensure that other people get what was offered and are happy and we intend to stay that way.

I love my partner more than anything in the world and where I can't do anything to protect her it hurts me that greedy people cant even stick by their word.
If we don't have honour what kind of people are we.

Whereas I have every sympathy for the two of you, there is also another angle to consider.

Let's say you accept an offer on your house, having found a suitable new home to purchase. You are anxious to move, with twins on the way, but your purchaser suddenly announces that he/she has an unforseen delay.

The seller of the house you are buying is anxious to complete, and insists that you sign contracts without delay. You really don't want to lose this house, but your buyer needs more time to sell their house. Even though you've verbally agreed to sell your house to this particular buyer, would you really lose the house you want to buy if you suddenly had a cash purchaser for your current home?

It's a hypothetical moral dilema. But would you really stand by your word to your prospective buyer, and only sell to them - even if meant risking losing the house you wanted to buy?

We aren't in that position. The vendor is selling simply because he can't be bothered to rent the property out anymore.
The simple morals are, he agreed to a sale and when someone came along and waved more cash in his face he weakened and went back on his agreement.
In effect he lied.
I would always endeavour to stick by my word, because I'm that kind of person. I would give the purchaser time and if needs be pay two mortgages for a short amount, I would be happier with myself and my actions that way.
Worst case scenario, yes I understand how tempting it would be.
As first time buyers there is no delay, we have a mortgage promise and a suitable deposit and we live in rented accommodation which only requires a months notice.
There is no reason for this mans actions bar his own self serving standards.

I sympathise with you but I feel these days you have NOT just got to put your offer forward but also your financial situation!!

You have to sell yourself as the BEST purchaser not just a highest bidder but someone willing to pay a realistic price...with solicitors already on standby...chain free....etc etc !!

When we moved to Sheffield we were constantly losing out on properties due to bidding wars....by the time we actually drove 110 miles to view the properties on a weekend they often were £10k or more over the advertised price....eventually we started 'selling ourselves' to the vendors as 'chain free' , relocation with hubbys Company so mortgage offer etc in the bag and ready to roll...!!

We found a house we loved were immediately outbid but this time we refused to bid again and told the agents £xxxxxx was our offer and that it was a realistic price for the property etc.

We then spoke to the vendor and told them our position and rather than take the risk of more money etc the vendors went with us!!

Granted it won't work with every vendor but it is worth bunging a bidding war and staying put with your offer!!

Good Luck
:thumbsup:

I really don't see how asking the market price for a house is 'greed'. I would call it stupidity if they asked for less than the market price, and in the end it would just cause a (worse) bidding war as everyone would realise that it was undervalued.

Just because you'd like to buy a big house at a low price doesn't mean it's someone else's greed when they ask for a reasonable price, and not surprisingly when they take the highest offer. Financially we all have to look out for ourselves in this world. That means making the most of things, when you are selling the largest asset you own in the world you don't take a lower offer for emotional reasons, well not if you have much common sense.

Originally posted by JoeP
Not sure whether that's totally possible; when attempting to move to Leeds to get a house similar to The Towers here in Sheffield would have cost about 200,000. At best, we would have managed a profit of about 50,000 from selling here, leaving a borrowing requirement of about 150,000 plus extra bits and bobs.

Now, I could get a mortgage for that amount but the repayments would be crippling. 'Downsizing' from a small 3 bedroomed terrace isn't actually very easy. What belomgings do we throw out? Should we live in an area where crime is worse? Bars on the windows? (Yes, seen this on many 160,000 houses in Leeds). Although I currently work in Sheffield I contracted in Leeds for 4 years - commuting each day - and we also have family there. Good reasons to want to move but basically we were prevented from doing so because of the greed of sellers.

The problem is that people see their house as a form of investment - a cash cow - and they're being short sighted in thinking that it will always be so.

Joe

I cannot make my point any more clear, the guy accepted our offer at asking price and went back on his word.
And, again you seem to have missed the part about the size of the house, it's 2 bedroomed but only slightly bigger than we have now, essential since we have two babies on the way.
I'm not looking for a palace, just something which allows me to push a double pram in the house without instantly blocking 2 doors and the stairs, something with room for two cots and a lounge where I can put two rocker chairs without using every single inch of floor space.
I'm hardly after luxury, just some flippin practicality.
Forgive me for having some common sense and identifying that our current house isn't big enough since I was careless enough to conceive two babies instead of the acceptable one.
Please refrain from critiscism if you haven't read the entire thread or neglected to comprehend the content.
if we all sit back and say 'oh it's ok, everyone does it and it isn't greed' what kind of life are we introducing our kids to? And what a shocking state of affairs that so many of you are so blinded by it's normality that you think it's ok.
He went back on his word - not acceptable!

I'm also going to add to this.

I agree with Zebra and have every smypathy with you. I have bought twice (one only recently) and sold recently.

I feel that once you have an offer accepted then it should be the end. If i was offered a few £k more i'd refuse. Yes i'd have the money but it wouldn't be right.

I've clearly read the whole thread, I've commented all the way through. Your personal circumstances are basically irrelevant to the discussion about gazumping though, and you had asked earlier that we stopped brining them into the discussion.
I think we'll have to disagree about the morality and general niceness that you expect to find when making large transactions. I don't expect my bank to be 'nice' I won't expect someone selling the biggest asset they own to be nice either.
My view whilst pessimistic means that at worse i'm right and at best I get pleasantly surprised (not very often I expect). Your view means that sometimes things go as you expect and more often than not you get an unpleasant surprise.
So i'll stick to what I consider realism for buying houses rather than some imaginary "wouldn't it be nice" world view.

Originally posted by Zebra
I cannot make my point any more clear, the guy accepted our offer at asking price and went back on his word.
And, again you seem to have missed the part about the size of the house, it's 2 bedroomed but only slightly bigger than we have now, essential since we have two babies on the way.
I'm not looking for a palace, just something which allows me to push a double pram in the house without instantly blocking 2 doors and the stairs, something with room for two cots and a lounge where I can put two rocker chairs without using every single inch of floor space.
I'm hardly after luxury, just some flippin practicality.
Forgive me for having some common sense and identifying that our current house isn't big enough since I was careless enough to conceive two babies instead of the acceptable one.
Please refrain from critiscism if you haven't read the entire thread or neglected to comprehend the content.
if we all sit back and say 'oh it's ok, everyone does it and it isn't greed' what kind of life are we introducing our kids to? And what a shocking state of affairs that so many of you are so blinded by it's normality that you think it's ok.
He went back on his word - not acceptable!

Originally posted by Zebra
And what a shocking state of affairs that so many of you are so blinded by it's normality that you think it's ok.
He went back on his word - not acceptable!

Err Zebra, I feel you may be the blinded one finding yourself the minority in this case. :loopy:

If you were offered an example figure of £80k for your house and accepted in word. Then another buyer came along and offered £100k, would you be willing to turn down an extra £20k for your 'principles'?
That 20k could make a difference to your and your families lives, and you wouldn't be in your right mind to turn it down!

It would be wonderful to live in your 'nice world' bubble, but that is totally unrealistic. Even if laws were passed to stop gazumping people would find ways round this.

As I have also been in this postion, I have to agree with Zebra.
I feel that it is the agents responsibilty to disuade their clients and make this clear that the agents reputation is at stake.
It would be interesting to get a view from all of the agents of Sheffield who would discourage this kind of practice.
I think that if I agree to sell my house to someone, I keep my promise.
I take the peoples circumstances in to account and it really is time that we started to think about our morals.
There is so much of this goes on in the housing market in england
It does not happen in Scotland as it is against the law.
Something needs to be done here .there will be many more threads like this one unless there are changes made.
It does affect peoples lives and takes over their lives.
I completed my sale and move on Friday.
I am so relieved that it is sorted.
It has been one of the most stressful experiences I have been through ,all made worse by the fact that some people do not have any morals.( see other thread to get the picture)

Originally posted by Zebra
He went back on his word - not acceptable!

Everyone knows it's not binding unless you say "cross my heart and hope to die".

Originally posted by nick2
Everyone knows it's not binding unless you say "cross my heart and hope to die".

We know that nothing is binding until the contracts are exchanged.that is a huge hurdle in itself.
what we are saying is that money is not always the most important thing in life.
You have to consider the peoples circumstances who are offering.
You may feel that they are much more committed to the purchase than someone else offering more.
Dont forget, 6 weeks is a long time.Lots of people change their mind and go looking for something else in that time, but not if they are really committed from the start
Agenst should encourage their clients to accept the best offer in that circumstance.
That is not always the highest

Originally posted by espadrille
We know that nothing is binding until the contracts are exchanged.that is a huge hurdle in itself.
what we are saying is that money is not always the most important thing in life.
You have to consider the peoples circumstances who are offering.
You may feel that they are much more committed to the purchase than someone else offering more.
Dont forget, 6 weeks is a long time.Lots of people change their mind and go looking for something else in that time, but not if they are really committed from the start
Agenst should encourage their clients to accept the best offer in that circumstance.
That is not always the highest

that's a fair point, but it's not to do with gazumping. If someone comes along after a sale is "sold subject to contract" with circumstances just as good (or even better) and offers more money, why should someone turn it down, afterall they haven't at that point any legal obligation to stick with the original offer.

what Zebra was saying is more to do with people honouring what is only a verbal agreement even if a better offer (better in whatever way) comes along.

Originally posted by espadrille
what we are saying is that money is not always the most important thing in life.


Just a thought.....

What if the person was selling their house to pay for the care for an elderly relative, would you still begrudge them getting an extra 10K from a higher offer ?

Money is not as important is honour. I think Gazumping should be illegal. I've never been gazumped but I know that I would find it really infuriating. Moving house makes you feel so vulnerable to start with!

Ask your agent to establish the status of the other offer and compare it to your own. When we sold out last house we received two offers at once from the agent, one more than the other and we accepted the lower offer as it was from a first time buyer who could move quickly and the other was from a recent divorcee who was still waiting to finalise the sale of her property. we certainly thought that less hassel was better than more money

Originally posted by Sara
Money is not as important is honour. I think Gazumping should be illegal. I've never been gazumped but I know that I would find it really infuriating. Moving house makes you feel so vulnerable to start with!

Ask your agent to establish the status of the other offer and compare it to your own. When we sold out last house we received two offers at once from the agent, one more than the other and we accepted the lower offer as it was from a first time buyer who could move quickly and the other was from a recent divorcee who was still waiting to finalise the sale of her property. we certainly thought that less hassel was better than more money

there is no basis in English law to warrant such a change. Verbal agreements on pretty much anything are not binding, especially if everyone involved knows that they aren't binding.

What happens if the law is changed, and then you as the buyer find that your mortgage app is turned down (you don't have to have an approved mortgage app to make an offer), what happens if you decide you don't like the surveryors report. Is it just as much tough luck for you as it is for the seller who can no longer change his mind?

I looked into going to an auction - if you win in this case you are legally bound to buy the house. This means you have to do all the surveys etc BEFORE you go to the auction. A significant outlay at the best of times. Even if you do this you can then lose the auction.

I think that represents a much greater risk than that associated with the non auction system.

And anyway, you can take out "gazumping" insurance that will cover any costs of the sale if it all falls down.

Please try not to despair!! My girlfriend and I have been gazumped 3 times now but to be fair it has worked to our advantage.

We now own a house much more suited to us and have paid far less than we thought we would have to.

I'm a firm believer in everything happens for a reason and it was certainly the case for us.

Good luck for the future!

the housing market in general sucks, Gazumping is not cost effective for the market as a whole, not fair on the person being gazumped and wastes a lot of valuable time. people who do this do not realise and probably couldn't care less about the headache this causes people.
if other countries can make the buying and selling process simple even "SCOTLAND" successfully then whats the matter with England.
i have heard however that there is a legal contract that some estate agents can but dont bother using to lessen or eliminate the gazumping headaches, not sure what it is called but there is something available - someone better qualified from the industry may be able to shed some light on this- "anyone" let me know if you find out anything.

you could easily write out a contract for use between the buyer and seller which was signed at the verbal agreement stage and specified conditions under which either party could pull out and penalties for pulling out outside those conditions.
Have it signed by both parties and witnessed and bobs your uncle.

If the other party broke the contract you'd have to take them to small claims court to recover the amount specified in the contract unless they paid up voluntarily.

Why would a seller sign it though, I wouldn't if I were selling.

i am putting a house up for sale this week that we have recently refurbished, i am certain i would sign some kind of contract that made the buyer think again about how much time could be wasted and headache caused by simply having a CHANGE OF MIND - if they decided to pull out of the transaction because their neighbours cat died (i think you get my drift)
we just simply want to sell our refurbished house for a fair price to the person that wants and can afford it. - there is a level of integrity that needs to be questioned when people pull out of property transactions for all sorts of strange mysterious reasons :mad:

Originally posted by forumgeek
i am putting a house up for sale this week that we have recently refurbished, i am certain i would sign some kind of contract that made the buyer think again about how much time could be wasted and headache caused by simply having a CHANGE OF MIND - if they decided to pull out of the transaction because their neighbours cat died (i think you get my drift)
we just simply want to sell our refurbished house for a fair price to the person that wants and can afford it. - there is a level of integrity that needs to be questioned when people pull out of property transactions for all sorts of strange mysterious reasons :mad:

if you had a verbal agreement and I come along and offer you 25% on top in order to pull out and sell to me, would you?

Cyclone, you seem to just be saying the same thing over and over again - that everyone has their price, and there will come a stage where you'll take a higher offer because it's SO much higher.

I disagree. Many people would be tempted by this, but not all. As others have said, just because people do it, doesn't make it right. There are two views: "Live as you feel you should", and "See whatever you can get away with". I opt for the former.

Gazumping is illegal in other countries (including Scotland) because it is a practice which ruins things for someone else. I couldn't live with my conscience if I thought I might have ruined someone's plans out of greed. Evidently other people can. More's the pity.

IF I HAD GIVEN A VERBAL AGREEMENT THEN THAT IS WHAT I HAVE GIVEN, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PROPERTY PURCHASE WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ODD 10-12
PENCE. THE AGREEMENT THAT I MAKE WITH SOMEWONE IF I GO BACK ON WILL CAUSE THAT PERSON TO TOTALLY RE THING THERE WHOLE PLANNING OF ONE OF THE BIGGEST PURCHASES THAT MOST PEOPLE MAKE, IF SOMEONE COMES ALONG AFTER AND MAKES A HIGHER OFFER TO THE ONE I HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED, THEN THEY ARE TOO LATE!!!!!

Rich - yes, that's my argument, it hasn't changed. I try wording it differently with different people.

forumgeek - fair enough, write up a contract then and see if people will sign it, both sides are protected then. But DON'T SHOUT or know one will buy your house. :thumbsup:

I also wouldn't be comfortable accepting a higher offer after I'd accepted one, because the fact that the person is willing to do that to the other buyer suggests they'd also be happy to drop me in it when they get an offer accepted on a different house. Then I could be left with no buyer at all.

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE ABOUT THE WRITTEN CONTRACT, I HAVE A SOLICITOR FRIEND THAT WILL BE ABLE TO DRAW UP A LAYMANS VERSION THAT WILL ACT AS A DETERRENT TO PROPLE PULLING OUT OF THE PROPERTY TRANSACTION CAUS THE NEIGHBOURS CAT HAD DIED AND SO ON AND SO ON!

WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE WE KNOW THAT FOR "SOME" PEOPLE MONEY TALKS, AND THEY WOULD GO BACK ON THEIR WORD AND SELL TO SOMEONE ELSE THEY MEET IN THE STREET THAT SAYS ("I WILL GIVE YOU A HIGHER OFFER "PROMISE"!)

GAZUMPING IS NOT FAIR AND EVEN ILLEGAL IN SOME COUNTRIES AS HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID, SO FOR ME ITS A NO BRAINER, - GIVE YOUR WORD AND THEN DONOT GO BACK ON IT -SIMPLE!

Citizens do not currently recieve anything special other than the knowledge that they are contributing to the upkeep of the community

my brother was last week gazumped for the second time, the first time he lost money, - ists pathetic, when deciding on one of the largest purchases you may ever make there is no system for safeguarding the interests of the buyer or seller within the transaction prior to exchange of contracts! what a system - why is it so easy in Scotland? :confused:

i'm getting a bit worried reading this thread.
some of you might have read elsewhere that we're currently trying to agree on a price for our first house.
am i right in thinking then that if we finally agree a price and so then go ahead and shell out for the survey, solicitor, mortgage application etc, we can still lose the house if someone else makes a better offer?! if so we could stand to lose hundreds of pounds. we were planing on insisting that we immediately receive written confirmation that our offer has been accepted by the seller, before going ahead and paying out all these costs. surely that would protect you and us? isn't that common practice? i.e. sold subject to contract.

somebody please clarify cos i'm getting worried!

Originally posted by Melanie
i'm getting a bit worried reading this thread.
some of you might have read elsewhere that we're currently trying to agree on a price for our first house.
am i right in thinking then that if we finally agree a price and so then go ahead and shell out for the survey, solicitor, mortgage application etc, we can still lose the house if someone else makes a better offer?! if so we could stand to lose hundreds of pounds. we were planing on insisting that we immediately receive written confirmation that our offer has been accepted by the seller, before going ahead and paying out all these costs. surely that would protect you and us? isn't that common practice? i.e. sold subject to contract.

somebody please clarify cos i'm getting worried!

I am sure to the majority of sellers their word is their honour...but unfortunately some are easily tempted by the offer of more money and obviously don't have a concience at all!!

They is nothing to protect you from losing money should the sale fall through prior to completion....that is why the system is flawed...hopefully you will be ok...Good Luck!

:thumbsup:

Unfortunately, until you have signed the contract and 'exchanged' you have no protection as the deal is still 'subject to contract'.

You could ask for a 'lock out agreement' for say 28 days, but it isn't common practice in domestic transactions.

Originally posted by Melanie
i'm getting a bit worried reading this thread.
......... am i right in thinking then that if we finally agree a price and so then go ahead and shell out for the survey, solicitor, mortgage application etc, we can still lose the house if someone else makes a better offer

Yes

we were planing on insisting that we immediately receive written confirmation that our offer has been accepted by the seller, before going ahead and paying out all these costs. surely that would protect you and us?

Worthless and a waste of time.


Nothing means anything till youve exchanged contracts.

Its a bad world out there.
The local agents must share blame with the vendors though.
Lets face it they wouldnt continue to market the property and show people round, oh sorry they dont do that here (what exactly do they do for their cash?), I mean make appointments without the vendors consent.

Cheers

d

gawd, how rubbish is that for a system!
we're gonna look into gazumping insurance ( i googled - it does exist)... as first timers with limited funds, we can't afford to lose a grand at the drop of a hat.
thanx for the response folks. now... if anyone knows a competent and reasonably priced property solicitor please pm me as we'll hopefully be needing one soon.
i'm gonna do a forum search first aswell.
cheers.
melanie.

Hi, having just moved into our last ever home (4 houses in 5 years) I have to say that there is nothing you can do to alleviate the stress you are going to suffer while waiting for solicitors to do their thing.
You have to sit back to a certain extent and realise that you are just a pile of paper on your solicitors desk and he/she will deal with you when he/she has finished their coffee and been for a wee, or got back from their weekend away or whatever. I found Tofields on Figtree Lane in Sheffield to be reliable and (quite) quick in dealing with our conveyancing. Do all you can to help, returning letters or forms (there are many) by hand to your solicitor can save a lot of time as they will post stuff even if their offices are on the same street! DON'T PANIC!!!!

Just looked back over an old thread and I am wondering whether this problem of gazumping in Sheffield has now been sorted?

The house was obviously worth more to someone else than you. Life sucks