Just had the four Halogen lights fitted in the bathroom ceiling.
Since they where wired up the halogens in the kitchen (the room below) seem to have gone dimmer :confused:
Obviously I will ask the bathroom fitter about this, but I don't want to look like a complete git - I am at a loss with electrics.
Could there be a connection between the two (no pun intended) :hihi:
Draggle

how much dimmer are we talking? A little bit, that you can hardly really tell, or like 50% dimmer than before? And are they dimmer all the time, or only when the bathroom lights are on at the same time?

Originally posted by slh73
how much dimmer are we talking? A little bit, that you can hardly really tell, or like 50% dimmer than before? And are they dimmer all the time, or only when the bathroom lights are on at the same time?
The brightness is 'noticably' different - we reckon about twenty five percent less.
They are dimmer all the time, not just when the bathroom lights are on.
Cheers,
Draggle

Are the new halogens, low voltage lamps (12v) instead of small mains ones? Low voltage is safer for bathrooms but you need a transformer installing to step down the mains supply to 12v. It is possible that someone cutting corners has wired the new lights up badly, causing a volts drop on your kitchen lights, or even used the existing kitchen transformer to power additional lights upstairs.
Or pinched the brighter lamps out of the kitchen lights swapping them with less bright ones ordered with the new lights.

Another theory is that your existing lighting circuit may use only 1mm diameter condctors in it's wires, where for a more heavily loaded circuit may be better off with 1.5mm cable. Either size can be specified for lighting but I always use 1.5.
Socket cable should be 2.5mm, maybe that is what is really recommended for the load which the transformer presents?

Did you have the bathroom refitted too? It could be the vibrations from all the crashing about in the bathroom that have affected the lamps in the kitchen. Have you got any spares? Try changing a couple if you have and see what happens.

The other thing that could have happened is some wiring relating to the kitchen lights has been disturbed whilst the bathroom works have been going on. You need to test the voltages before and after the transformers to see if it has.

A quick check with a meter will soon find out what the problem is either way.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
It is possible that someone cutting corners has wired the new lights up badly, causing a volts drop on your kitchen lights, or even used the existing kitchen transformer to power additional lights upstairs.
Doubtful on both counts really, the problem exists when the bathroom lights are off so the volt drop is unlikely to be the cause.

Also, transformers are wired in post switching so each switched circuit will have its own transformer(s) so if the same transformer was used the bathroom lights would come on and off with the kitchen lights.

Originally posted by Lurch
Doubtful on both counts really, the problem exists when the bathroom lights are off so the volt drop is unlikely to be the cause.
If someone has wired one side of the lamps to earth rather than one of the transformer outputs, if using a conventional wire wound transformer, then you will get half wave 50hz at approximately half the voltage peaking at 8.4v.
Obviously if using a modern [electronic transformer pack] then the startup check fails would prevent any lights on at all.

You wouldn't get anything unless you referenced something on the secondary side to earth. It is all possible, but unlikely given the complexities of bodging it this way would make it 10x the job of doing it properly the first way.

The chances are that it is something straight forward but, as I have learnt over the years of being an electrician, expect the unexpected. :wink:

It is always possible to speculate in these cases, but the only solution is for both circuits to be checked by a competent electrician.

Bear in mind that since January 1st all such work must be done or inspected by an 'approved' electrician. I can only find Basildon at the moment, but you'll get the picture:

http://www.basildon.gov.uk/80256B980036C7D2/vWeb/wpAJPS674E4C

Part P - gotta love it :rolleyes:

Sorted....
It seems that the guy who fitted the kitchen connected pos and neg wrong way round on the kitchen lights. This worked fine until the bathroom fitters connected a transformer for the bathroom lights, which somehow cased the faulty wiring in the kitchen lights to dim.
(even though they where reading 240v) :confused:

Anyway It's sorted and I thought I would share the knowledge :)

And they're all ac current are they?

Originally posted by Draggletail
Sorted....
It seems that the guy who fitted the kitchen connected pos and neg wrong way round on the kitchen lights.

This shouldnt have made a difference as AC (alternating current) changes pole 50 times a second.

Sounds like a bit of an excuse to me, but anyway glad its sorted and dont forget what one other poster stated, all electrics in the home should be done by a fully qualified electrician.

Originally posted by Strix
And they're all ac current are they?
I'm sorry I don't know what that means. I said I was a bimbo when it came to leccy :blush:
I used to be able to wire a plug before they came 'welded and sealed' to new appliances :)

Originally posted by fnkysknky
Part P - gotta love it :rolleyes:
I'm not going to start a 50 page rant on this. :wink:
Originally posted by Draggletail
Sorted....
It seems that the guy who fitted the kitchen connected pos and neg wrong way round on the kitchen lights. This worked fine until the bathroom fitters connected a transformer for the bathroom lights, which somehow cased the faulty wiring in the kitchen lights to dim.
(even though they where reading 240v) :confused:

I think what they meant to say was "we have no idea what was wrong, but it works now".

Originally posted by Lurch
I'm not going to start a 50 page rant on this. :wink:


Please do. As an electrical/control systems CAD operator, with a degree in manufacturing engineering (which includes electrical engineering) I can no longer add a 13amp socket on a spur??

I can map a contol panel with 200+ terminals in it and cross reference all of the components, multi-core cables and PLC references, but cannot join 3 strands of wire to an existing 3 strand ring??? :suspect: :mad: :rant: :loopy:

You go right ahead and 'start' on Part Cherfin' P :rant:

Hah, you're not even an electrician, I was until this year. Now, I can't even do work in my own house, sod Part P, if I want to do it I will. I know people who comply with the requirements of Part P but shouldn't be let loose on plugging an extension lead in, let alone wiring a house. I can still legally work on commercial systems but I can't wire a socket in a kitchen.

The idea was good, the implementation was a bit **** poor. I've been going round in circles trying to work out what's what and Part P is full of inconsistencies and contradictions so I just ignore it. Every time I try and make sense of it it just goes tits up and then I'm back at square one.

To be fair, I prefer fitting phone systems and data cabling anyway so I'll just do that from now on, with commercial electrical when I feel like doing some proper work!

From an ex-electrician. :wink:

Originally posted by Lurch
I'm not going to start a 50 page rant on this. :wink:

I think what they meant to say was "we have no idea what was wrong, but it works now".
I ain't posting anymore on this subject. I'm just embarrassing myself and showing what gullible git I might be when it comes to electrics :suspect: :blush:
Feel free to carry on without me :)

Originally posted by Draggletail
I ain't posting anymore on this subject. I'm just embarrassing myself and showing what gullible git I might be when it comes to electrics :suspect: :blush:
Feel free to carry on without me :)
Theoretically, this is what Part P is supposed to stop, clueless people playing with your electrics. By the sounds of it whoever fitted and "repaired" your lights knows as much as you on the subject, no offence like. :wink:

Originally posted by Lurch
Hah, you're not even an electrician, I was until this year. Now, I can't even do work in my own house, sod Part P, if I want to do it I will. I know people who comply with the requirements of Part P but shouldn't be let loose on plugging an extension lead in, let alone wiring a house. I can still legally work on commercial systems but I can't wire a socket in a kitchen.

To be fair, I prefer fitting phone systems and data cabling anyway so I'll just do that from now on, with commercial electrical when I feel like doing some proper work!

From an ex-electrician. :wink:
Oh good, it's not just me then?
I've done panel wiring for a nuclear power station and now I can't wire my patio lights up? Knickers to that!

The electrician who wired our shower in Peterborough had to ring the IEE to calculate his cable sizes for him. I decided not to lend him a book for calculating the resistance and power drop over such a long run, as I didn't think he'd appreciate it. I was, after all, a housewife at the time :D

Originally posted by Draggletail
Sorted....
It seems that the guy who fitted the kitchen connected pos and neg wrong way round on the kitchen lights. This worked fine until the bathroom fitters connected a transformer for the bathroom lights, which somehow cased the faulty wiring in the kitchen lights to dim.
(even though they where reading 240v) :confused:

Anyway It's sorted and I thought I would share the knowledge :)

Now does anybody else think this sounds lie one of those 'not my bleedin' fault - it's the last cowboy you had' excuses? :suspect:

Originally posted by Strix
Now does anybody else think this sounds lie one of those 'not my bleedin' fault - it's the last cowboy you had' excuses? :suspect:

OK - all I can say is I was THERE when the BATHROOM fitter inspected the work of the long departed KITCHEN fitter and announced that the pos/neg wrong. It took 20 seconds to reverse the wiring.
And it worked from then.

Am unsubscribing from this thread now ' cos I can't stand the humiliation ;)
'Bye

Originally posted by Draggletail
OK - all I can say is I was THERE when the BATHROOM fitter inspected the work of the long departed KITCHEN fitter and announced that the pos/neg wrong. It took 20 seconds to reverse the wiring.
And it worked from then.
There we have it, the BATHROOM fitter did it, not an electrician of any sort then. Obviously a technically detailed diagnosis would be beyond his understanding of connector blocks, flex and tape.
Originally posted by Strix
Is there an electrician in the house?

I wanna know the answer to this one now!
Dodgy connection is my bet, by reversing the polarity the bathroom fitter remade some connections that were disturbed whilst fitting the bathroom.

The original fault was probably caused by a combination of not being done properly in the first place and being disturbed by the bathroom fitter.

So - 'reversing the polarity' on an ac circuit achieves...?

Well, it.... ummm....... 'reverses the polarity', that's about it really. (It doesn't make lamps dimmer btw :wink: ).