It seems that the Football League is getting increasing tough on clubs that either go into adminsitration or mismanage their finances. In recent weeks we've seen Luton Town docked a massive 30 points for the forthcoming season and yesterday Rotherham United were docked 17 points on account of being unable to satisfy the normal conditions of Football League rules for exiting administration. Additionally Rotherham were also told that if they want to compete in the league this season they must accept the punishment and agree not to challenge it by a deadline of midday this Friday.


Now we know Leeds United were not only docked 15 points last season for similar offences but they also made a mockery of the ruling by spending the whole season mounting several legal challenges that disrupted the league table right up until the last few weeks of the season. Furthermore, the fact that Leeds' turnover is probably several times Luton's and Rotherham's suggests that the sums involved means Leeds' financial improprieties were far greater.

With all this in mind, the 15 point deduction Leeds were given last season seems in retrospect to be much more lenient than that given to smaller clubs in similar circumstances. Therefore, would it not be fair and a warning to other clubs to deduct another 15 points off Leeds United for the new season as well as the last?

I think relegation to Unibond Division One with a 30 point deduction sounds more reasonable.

On a serious note, Why do the FA have to punish the supporters and players. They have more or less killed Luton's season and possibly next season. Rotherham did a magnificent recovery a couple of seasons ago, can they do it again? What's more to the point, should they have to?
The players and the supporters should not have to suffer because the board haven't handled their finances properly The FA must know the long term damage that they inflict on clubs in these circumstances, which in the long run is not what the FA should be about. They should be more supportive of the "innocents" involved and come up with a more reasonable solution.
In Lutons case eg, punish the ex owners with fines and a ban in management/ownership for a set period. Likewise the people responsible for Rotherhams infringements should be fined and banned from football, new people can then be brought in and the team should be able to carry on as normal.
When a player gets so many cards he serves a suspension, his fault, his punishment. Same should apply to management/owners.
The FA need to become less of a dictatorship and more of helping council to clubs.

Totally agree Basil.

On a serious note, Why do the FA have to punish the supporters and players. They have more or less killed Luton's season and possibly next season.

<snippety>

Especially as (if I remember correctly) the Blue Square set up does not accept clubs in administration. If any of those three clubs (as Bournemouth now have a 17 point deduction too) were relegated, and were still in/going back into administration, they'd actually bypass the top two divisions of non-league football.

On a serious note, Why do the FA have to punish the supporters and players. They have more or less killed Luton's season and possibly next season. Rotherham did a magnificent recovery a couple of seasons ago, can they do it again? What's more to the point, should they have to?
The players and the supporters should not have to suffer because the board haven't handled their finances properly The FA must know the long term damage that they inflict on clubs in these circumstances, which in the long run is not what the FA should be about. They should be more supportive of the "innocents" involved and come up with a more reasonable solution.
In Lutons case eg, punish the ex owners with fines and a ban in management/ownership for a set period. Likewise the people responsible for Rotherhams infringements should be fined and banned from football, new people can then be brought in and the team should be able to carry on as normal.
When a player gets so many cards he serves a suspension, his fault, his punishment. Same should apply to management/owners.
The FA need to become less of a dictatorship and more of helping council to clubs.

Just to add to that,obviously the clubs are in financial difficulty and need all the support they can get any team struggling in the bottom part of the league automatically have reduced gates,sponsorships etc so by placing them firmly at the bottom of the league the F A are just compounding the problems,they may as well just kick them out of the league and cease with all their BS..
By the way Mr Boothe I dont know if you read forums like this but I would like to extend my thanks for the way you have treat Rotherham United Football Club Im sure you are quite happy with the way things have turned out and that you will have a happy, contented, comfortable life,one bit of advice though..dont ever walik into any pub in Rotherham Town Centre i dont think you will be made very welcome..Oh and whats it feel like to be the most hated man in he Borough?

10 points deducted followed by another 15.

25 points in total in the space of months !

This Sheffield Jelousy thing with Leeds really tickles me !!

Lived here in Sheffield all my life BUT thank the good lord above i chose the right football team.

LEEDS UNITED FC

Keep looking over your shoulders because normal service will be resumed very very soon.

European Cups/League Titles/FA Cups/League Cups.......

lol.........no wonder there's jelousy !!

On a more serious note..........Luton/Rotherham/Bournemouth......not the biggest clubs in the league but still steeped in tradition....something that Mawhinney and his cronies are desperate to get rid of.

They seem to make their own rules up as they go along.

Killing football !!!

Keep looking over your shoulders because normal service will be resumed very very soon.


Muddling about in the lower divisions is normal service for Leeds ... for decades prior to 1965-ish, and for a fair chunk of the time since, that's what they've been doing.

Lived here in Sheffield all my life BUT thank the good lord above i chose the right football team.


Why did you choose them? You probably have a really good reason and hate all the supporters who choose their team based on league position.

This Sheffield Jelousy thing with Leeds really tickles me !!
I think you'll find it's hate, not jealousy. :D

I also find this Sheffield jealousy over Leeds United amusing - even if it's a tad pathetic.

Keep it up though you Owls and Blades, one day you too might be newsworthy - although somehow I doubt it.

Your constant whinging is always good for a laugh :hihi:

I also find this Sheffield jealousy over Leeds United amusing - even if it's a tad pathetic.

Keep it up though you Owls and Blades, one day you too might be newsworthy - although somehow I doubt it.

Your constant whinging is always good for a laugh :hihi:

Hate to destroy your assumptions old boy, but this OP is neither an owl nor a blade but a bull! That's Hereford United by the way - you probably remember us as the team that knocked Leeds United out of the FA Cup last season.:P

Anyway, I have since revised my opinion in the OP and admit that I was wrong and I now feel it would be totally unfair to deduct Leeds another 15 points this season. It should actually be another 30 point deduction!

Why? Well if you saw the feature on Luton on ITV's "The Championship" yesterday, they were arguing that their 30 point deduction was unfair because the misconduct and dodgy dealings were committed by the previous administration who are no longer at the club.

Whereas at Leeds, the dodgy dealings were dome under the leadership of Ken Bates and his cronies who are still in charge and have effectively got away with it! If football is to have any chance of being seen as fair and just, surely it makes sense for an example to be made of Leeds and either a further points deduction or demotion to non-league football is the morally right thing to do?

As much as I'd love to see it happen and have voted yes, it couldn't happen so yes they should but as we know it won't happen. The fact they have 'Leeds' in the title of their name is enough for them to start on minus points every season in my opinon though.

Why? Well if you saw the feature on Luton on ITV's "The Championship" yesterday, they were arguing that their 30 point deduction was unfair becuase the misconduct and dodgy were committed by the previous administration who are no longer at the club.

Whereas at Leeds, the dodgy dealings were dome under the leadership of Ken Bates and his cronies who are still in charge and have effectively got away with it!


This is a problem with business law as much as it is with the FA and football. Technically, the dodgy dealings at leads were not done by the current leadership - the current leadership is a company owned by Ken Bates and his cronies, but the previous leadership was a different company owned by Ken Bates and his cronies.

Go figure.

10 points deducted followed by another 15.

25 points in total in the space of months !

This Sheffield Jelousy thing with Leeds really tickles me !!

Lived here in Sheffield all my life BUT thank the good lord above i chose the right football team.

LEEDS UNITED FC

Keep looking over your shoulders because normal service will be resumed very very soon.

European Cups/League Titles/FA Cups/League Cups.......

lol.........no wonder there's jelousy !!

On a more serious note..........Luton/Rotherham/Bournemouth......not the biggest clubs in the league but still steeped in tradition....something that Mawhinney and his cronies are desperate to get rid of.

They seem to make their own rules up as they go along.

Killing football !!!

Its not just Owls and Blades fans that hate you.

Its pretty much every fan of every other club in the UK.

Man U fans hate L**ds with a passion and they are definatly not jelous of you.

Its not just Owls and Blades fans that hate you.

Its pretty much every fan of every other club in the UK.

Man U fans hate L**ds with a passion and they are definatly not jelous of you.

So what - at least we're in the hearts and minds of every football fan in the country - it's so much better than being a nonentity :hihi:

As for Owls and Blades all this "hatred" stems from jealousy in the sixties and seventies when Leeds were always on TV and always in the news.
All you ever heard was Sheffield fans moaning "why are Leeds on the telly all the time and not us" :rant: perhaps it was because you were - and still are, crap :hihi:

Didn't you notice ReginaldD, you can only vote YES. :hihi:

Why did you choose them? You probably have a really good reason and hate all the supporters who choose their team based on league position.



Not from league position.....thats for sure....:)
FA CUP Final 1973 lost 1-0 to Sunderland as a young lad from a family full of Blades (6 years old) sat and watched in awe of how Leeds played that day .......and they lost.

Unfortunately i had to endure many many many years of utter s**** at the wrong end of division 1 and then division 2 (apart from an fa cup semi final in 87) before Howard Wilkinson came in and sorted things out !!

Trips to every away game in the uefa cup/champions league then made all the suffering worthwile.......some great trips to Moscow/Barcelona/Madrid/La Coruna/Milan/Lazio/Roma/PSV/Heerenveen/Anderlect/Munich/Sofia/Valencia/Malaga/Zurich/Monaco/Stuttgart/ plus more.........

And now it's Scunthorpe/Yeovil/Swindon/ etc...........

But you Sheffield football fans are more than used to places like that !! :)

European Cups/League Titles/FA Cups/League Cups.......

lol.........no wonder there's jelousy !!


I hate to burst your bubble but you've never won the European Cup and you've only won the FA Cup once, whereas we've won it 4 times, even Wednesday have won it more times than you (3).

No jealousy at all mate. We just hate your guts. Did you know you were recently voted the most hated club in Britain?

I am a Chester fan - I think they should be banned from all cup competitions. 5-2, well I suppose its better than 6-0 :hihi:

I hate to burst your bubble but you've never won the European Cup and you've only won the FA Cup once, whereas we've won it 4 times, even Wednesday have won it more times than you (3).

No jealousy at all mate. We just hate your guts. Did you know you were recently voted the most hated club in Britain?

if they had a cup for thugs the trophy cabinet at elland road would be groaning:hihi:

'European Cups'.......= Fairs Cup......ie...A CUP IN EUROPE......don't worry....bubble is still intact !!

League Champions 1968-69, 1973-74, 1991-92
Runners-Up 1964-65, 1965-66, 1969-70, 1970-71, 1971-72
Division Two Champions 1923-24, 1963-64, 1989-90
Division Two Runners-Up 1927-28, 1931-32, 1955-56
FA Cup Winners 1972
FA Cup Finalists 1965, 1970, 1973
League Cup Winners 1968
League Cup Finalists 1996
European Cup Finalists 1975
European Cup Winners Cup Finalists 1973
Fairs Cup Winners 1968, 1971
Fairs Cup Finalists 1967
FA Charity Shield Winners 1969, 1992
FA Youth Challenge Cup Winners 1993, 1997

And yes the Service Crew was number 1 when it mattered :)

'European Cups'.......= Fairs Cup......ie...A CUP IN EUROPE.


No. European Cup = what is now the Champions' League. Fairs' Cup = UEFA Cup. That puts you on a par with the likes of Wolves.

And three league titles still leaves you behind Wednesday. A team that had a great spell once, but for most of its history hasn't been anything much.

"hasn't been anything much"............

a FAIR comment about Wednesday !!

I Totally agree :)

"hasn't been anything much"............

a FAIR comment about Wednesday !!

I Totally agree :)

Then, given that Wednesday have more titles than you for both major domestic competitions, you'd have to be insane to claim that it's not also true of Leeds.

Just going on MY lifetime pal....

Been fortunate to see MY team actually win what its all about...................

The league title...........

Special one as well as it was the one before football went daft (premiership etc...).

Best feeling in the world when wee Gordon lifted that trophy !!

Your argument is a tad weak tho fella......

the honours list just does'nt compare really does it...(even you can see that)........admire you for tryin tho :)....ps Spora Luxemburg and Kaislerslauton within the space of a few weeks surely does'nt consist of a 'european run' does it ?........thought not !!

Done ok for us over the years have Wednesday....and the Blunts......

Snodins x 2
Pearson
Wetherall
Newsome
Varadi...(eventually)
Sterland
Worthington
Chapman
(Howard Wilkinson)




Not as many as our main feeder club across the city but nonetheless....a few half decent players......

A few of them even won something with us !!

Don't be bitter tho .....we're not all that bad u know.......

Dirty Leeds and proud of it !!

Just going on MY lifetime pal...


Well, there you go then. Blinkered, self-centred assessments usually do lead to false conclusions. :)

And yes the Service Crew was number 1 when it mattered :)



give over remember the lowfields ;)

Surprise surprise, the 3rd biggest club in West Yorkshire are at it again - this time they've admitted making dodgy payments to unlicensed agents.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leeds_united/7588298.stm

There's a good case for a further significant points deduction, but given how generously Leeds have been treated by the Football League in the past couple of years, they'll probably get away with a fine.

Personally I think they should be deducted 15 points, relegated a division and start each game with two players being sent off.

Personally I think they should be deducted 15 points, relegated a division and start each game with two players being sent off.

Surely that's being too soft on them?

Surely that's being too soft on them?
Probably but I'm feeling rather magnanimous today.

"magnanimous" is that French for twit? ( not allowed to put an a in that word)
Wish you pair, (Basil), had watched Leeds when I was a lad. Players like:-
Peter Lorimer, Johnny Giles, Norman Hunter, Allan Clarke, Paul Madeley, Frank Gray, Joe Jordan, Billy Bremner, Jack Charlton, Gary Sprake, Eddy Gray & Gordon McQueen to name but a few. Leeds supplied our countries with a skillful supply of National team players and have continued to. Leeds went "pear shaped" when they had their 1st money problems when they had to sell top players like Ferdinand, Robinson,Keane, Speed etc. Players who are still playing for their countries.
I have a feeling that you envy Leeds earlier success and the talented home grown players that they produced and still do.
OK spend £32.5M on Robhino, but can he play for England?

"magnanimous" is that French for twit? ( not allowed to put an a in that word)
Wish you pair, (Basil), had watched Leeds when I was a lad. Players like:-
Peter Lorimer, Johnny Giles, Norman Hunter, Allan Clarke, Paul Madeley, Frank Gray, Joe Jordan, Billy Bremner, Jack Charlton, Gary Sprake, Eddy Gray & Gordon McQueen to name but a few. Leeds supplied our countries with a skillful supply of National team players and have continued to. Leeds went "pear shaped" when they had their 1st money problems when they had to sell top players like Ferdinand, Robinson,Keane, Speed etc. Players who are still playing for their countries.
I have a feeling that you envy Leeds earlier success and the talented home grown players that they produced and still do.
OK spend £32.5M on Robhino, but can he play for England?



Leeds were the most dispised team in the land with those players you mentioned from the 70s and the cynical fouling they got away with. The demise of Leeds as they are gets no sympathy from us people that supports other teams. The lower they go down the better for us

"magnanimous" is that French for twit? ( not allowed to put an a in that word)
Wish you pair, (Basil), had watched Leeds when I was a lad. Players like:-
Peter Lorimer, Johnny Giles, Norman Hunter, Allan Clarke, Paul Madeley, Frank Gray, Joe Jordan, Billy Bremner, Jack Charlton, Gary Sprake, Eddy Gray & Gordon McQueen to name but a few.

as brian clough said when he took over " throw yer medals in the bin yer cheated for them" even goalkeeper gary sprake admited bribes were offered to opposing players.

I have a feeling that you envy Leeds earlier success and the talented home grown players that they produced and still do.
Yeah us Man United fans are so jealous of Leeds :loopy:

OK spend £32.5M on Robhino, but can he play for England?
:huh: Err what's Robinho got to do with anything?

Personally I think they should be deducted 15 points, relegated a division and start each game with two players being sent off.

Make that apply to every season and I think 99% of the known universe will agree :thumbsup:

Wish you pair, (Basil), had watched Leeds when I was a lad. Players like:-
Peter Lorimer, Johnny Giles, Norman Hunter, Allan Clarke, Paul Madeley, Frank Gray, Joe Jordan, Billy Bremner, Jack Charlton, Gary Sprake, Eddy Gray & Gordon McQueen to name but a few.

I remember them well - most of them perfected going over the ball and raking studs down the opponents shins / ankle. Dirty cynical b*******s 90% of the time.

Yeah us Man United fans are so jealous of Leeds :loopy:


:huh: Err what's Robinho got to do with anything?

The point I was making is that the way Man City are going is to buy in all the best players in the world, therefore adding to Premiership clubs who cannot supply our national squads with quality players.
As for everybodys comments about the Leeds players I mentioned, nobody was complaining about them when they played for their countries, unlike today.

I hate to burst your bubble but you've never won the European Cup and you've only won the FA Cup once, whereas we've won it 4 times, even Wednesday have won it more times than you (3).

No jealousy at all mate. We just hate your guts. Did you know you were recently voted the most hated club in Britain?

****eHawk

The last time the blunts won anything (1935, I think) Hitler was a lad, what's the point of bragging about that, how many titles have you won - oh!, that's right, none.

What have YOU seen your team win in your lifetime - nothing :hihi:

As to "the most hated club" - at least we're in the hearts and minds of most football fans. Mention the blunts and people will say - who? :confused:

'European Cups'.......= Fairs Cup......ie...A CUP IN EUROPE......don't worry....bubble is still intact !!

League Champions 1968-69, 1973-74, 1991-92
Runners-Up 1964-65, 1965-66, 1969-70, 1970-71, 1971-72
Division Two Champions 1923-24, 1963-64, 1989-90
Division Two Runners-Up 1927-28, 1931-32, 1955-56
FA Cup Winners 1972
FA Cup Finalists 1965, 1970, 1973
League Cup Winners 1968
League Cup Finalists 1996
European Cup Finalists 1975
European Cup Winners Cup Finalists 1973
Fairs Cup Winners 1968, 1971
Fairs Cup Finalists 1967
FA Charity Shield Winners 1969, 1992
FA Youth Challenge Cup Winners 1993, 1997

You know Leeds fans have lost the argument when they resort to printing statistics :roll:

Cor, the Fairs Cup (?), Division Two Runners Up :clap:

Truly achievements to be proud of :hihi:

Excuse me while my eyes glaze over...

Do you remember when the government closed down Railtrack overnight, just like that? They just switched it off as you would a lightbulb?

I'm hoping the FA do that to Leeds :thumbsup:


Basil - would you add this option to the poll please?

Unfortunately i had to endure many many many years of utter s**** at the wrong end of division 1 and then division 2 (apart from an fa cup semi final in 87) before Howard Wilkinson came in and sorted things out !!

Trips to every away game in the uefa cup/champions league then made all the suffering worthwile.......some great trips to Moscow/Barcelona/Madrid/La Coruna/Milan/Lazio/Roma/PSV/Heerenveen/Anderlect/Munich/Sofia/Valencia/Malaga/Zurich/Monaco/Stuttgart/ plus more.........

All great achievements, granted, considering you were using the Owls B-squad at the time :hihi:

leeds have always been the best supported team in yorkshire and always will be. the hatred seems to have started back in the 60's when they were formidable.

^^^^^^^^^^
Your signature is incorrect. It should say:

Leeds is a suburb of BRADFORD

Therefore, would it not be fair and a warning to other clubs to deduct another 15 points off Leeds United for the new season as well as the last?

Pipe Down Mate.

give over remember the lowfields ;)


Remember it well :)

Not quite the 300 strong mob as written in SC's book........but a tidy set of lads non the less :)

On behalf of my brother in law, who is currently foaming gently at the mouth on the other side of the room at the thought of this thread, why is there no 'No' option in this thread?

Should I add one? ;)

Hate to destroy your assumptions old boy, but this OP is neither an owl nor a blade but a bull! That's Hereford United by the way - you probably remember us as the team that knocked Leeds United out of the FA Cup last season.:P

Anyway, I have since revised my opinion in the OP and admit that I was wrong and I now feel it would be totally unfair to deduct Leeds another 15 points this season. It should actually be another 30 point deduction!

Why? Well if you saw the feature on Luton on ITV's "The Championship" yesterday, they were arguing that their 30 point deduction was unfair because the misconduct and dodgy dealings were committed by the previous administration who are no longer at the club.

Whereas at Leeds, the dodgy dealings were dome under the leadership of Ken Bates and his cronies who are still in charge and have effectively got away with it! If football is to have any chance of being seen as fair and just, surely it makes sense for an example to be made of Leeds and either a further points deduction or demotion to non-league football is the morally right thing to do?

Sad b******. Is that the "highlight" in your football clubs history?

Ah, oh deary, deary me.

Over 32,000 at Helland Road to see Huddersfield score a last minute winner over Le*ds.

My weekend starts right here.

PS. I answered 'yes' to the question.

Poor Leeds - can't be long before they'll be needing a goal start against village teams :hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi:

......

Trips to every away game in the uefa cup/champions league then made all the suffering worthwile.......some great trips to Moscow/Barcelona/Madrid/La Coruna/Milan/Lazio/Roma/PSV/Heerenveen/Anderlect/Munich/Sofia/Valencia/Malaga/Zurich/Monaco/Stuttgart/ plus more.........

And now it's Scunthorpe/Yeovil/Swindon/ etc...........

But you Sheffield football fans are more than used to places like that !! :)



...............................
Dirty Leeds and proud of it !!

Dirty indeed, and found their level in Fen land. :)

I would like to congratulate Colchester on their victory today - four on the bounce lost by Leeds.

How sad :hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi:

we all leeds scum send em down we all hate leeds scum

we all leeds scum send em down we all hate leeds scum
Did you go to school in Leeds?

Did you go to school in Leeds?

u jokin had a proper education in sunny attercliffe