I have a huge amount of respect for the many people I've recently come across who work hard at rescue centres and it's brought up a few questions in my mind. This is due also to many debates about breeding animals that I've read on here, dogs especially, though cats and other animals too of course.

As a Staffie 'mom' I'm aware of the huge amount of this breed are currently in rescue and it appalls me (as it does many) and was wondering about the whole opinion people have on breeding. Surely Crufts is just people breeding dogs for profit? I see where these dogs live on the show itself and most of the time the 'show dog' is the pet while the rest live outdoors in kennels. Is this right? I mean OK, they have the money, the dogs are walked and looked after... but is it any better than Joe Bloggs owning a dog? Are 'genuine/professional' dog breeders any better than the rest?

yes they are (and I'm in rescue ;) )

for the most part they breed selectively for the health and wellbeing of the resulting dogs, offer cradle to grave advice, will take back a dog who can't stay in it's home, offer free six week insurance with a pup (provided by KC), and in the case of more than one breeder I know are actively involved in the rescue of animals produced by the less caring producers of pups

I know there are lots of people who like to do the whole Crufts/Kennel Club circus down, but there are very few of those who actually know what goes on - it's just propaganda!

You get good along with the bad kblade,

I used to show Takara (we stopped because she didn't enjoy it anymore). We never got to Crufts but came close a couple of times. We did attend champ shows and we did get placed.

I've never bred, my dogs live indoors.

There are a huge number of 'professional' breeders who keep their dogs in the house. Puppies are better socialised when brought up in the house anyway and a breeder who's reputation lies within the temperament of their dogs is going to do their upmost to rear well socialised, healthy pups - reared in the home.

Crufts is a show - some breed, some don't. A vast amount don't actually.

I wouldn't say breeders are any better than pet owners - but they do their bit by supplying dog owners who want pups from known parentage with good quality pups and put the work in.

I have nothing against good breeders breeding good pups. In fact i think it's important they continue. There has been many a time people have said breeders should take a couple of years out and let the rescues have a chance but where would people who don't want a rescue go? Back yard breeders and puppy farms - that's where. They'll buy pups from non health tested 'stock', pups that haven't been looked after, haven't been bred for temperament or conformation and haven't been socialised.

I wouldn't say that genuine, responsible breeders do breed for profit, they take time off work to rear the litter, they pay tax on their litters, they spend money on special food for parents and pups, vet checks, and sometimes emergency vet bills, health tests for parents (and pups in some breeds), they are up all hours of the night if the mother rejects the pups or one isn't feeding well... They also spend a huge amount of money on shows! It's £20-£25 to enter a champ show and you won't usually come away with a cash prize (only the top places like BIS get them).

Responsible genuine breeders put this time and effort (and money) in to their litters because they have strong examples of the breed that would further their breed. They only breed dogs worth breeding.

So no - they don't all live outdoors, most breeders will show all their breeding stock unless some dogs don't enjoy showing (Takara's mum didn't like showing and even though she qualified for Crufts and could've done well the breeder didn't continue) so they don't have one that they show and the rest live outdoors and are kept for breeding.

The issue I do have with Crufts is the people that take it too far. Last year 5 dogs (I believe) died at, or leaving Crufts. One of these was due to a dog who actually had a faulty heart and nobody knew and it could've happened any time, others were down to handlers pushing their dogs too far - one dog had travelled over from a show in Europe and was put straight into Crufts and it was just too much for him.

There aren't enough vets around Crufts - they need to be putting vets in easily accessible places to every ring but one handler had to go into a hall at the other end of the NEC to find a vet for her dog.

But again, that's like anything - people take it too far. I would NEVER let showing my dogs come before their value as pets and more importantly, animals with feelings.

Sorry it's way too late for me to write a properly thought out post so it's all over the place!

My Staffie I consider to be rescued as her previous owner was irresponsible and wanted rid so she ended up here :love: There my love of Staffs began and I'd never want another breed of dog, ever

I also got my kitten from the RSPCA so know how that side of things work and couldn't be more impressed nor humbled by the work rescue does for animals.

strix wasn't saying that you don't see how rescue works - she was saying that many people don't see how Crufts or KC work...

Or am I just misreading your post?

Oh just to add.. I bought Takara from a breeder, I got Eddy from dalmatian welfare as a rescue - the welfare service is run by the same people that show and breed :)

Thanks for that info Lotti. I was hoping to get a view from someone with experience in that field. I really was just putting the feelers out as I was a little unsure how I felt myself having read so much info on rescue recently. I was just replying to Strix in regards that I am now fully aware (thankfully) of all of this and it's truly opened my eyes :)

One thing I am all for regards to 'professional' breeding is I'd love to stop this cross breeding/mongrels etc as it does take away the actual true breeds temperament. You really are not going to know what you're going to get so I'm totally for true breeders in this respect.

I'm sorry if I'm waffling a tad. I just tend to think of stuff and go with it then think about properly later :blush:

There are some truly fantastic cross breeds out there, and I'm all for breeding new dogs for our changing society, but crossing two breeds to make up a stupid name (google 'puggles' :rolleyes: ) then charging extortionate amounts of cash for a first generation cross is lunacy in my book - well no.... it's the people who pay for the blasted things that want their heads examining :loopy:

JRTs were supposedly bred down from fox terriers. Beagles were reputedly something of a project too - and pocket beagles bred as a handbag dog (before we had handbags obviously, hence 'pocket' :hihi: )

Now why anybody would cross a snappy poodle with something with a stronger jaw is beyond me, or any of the larger docile breeds with something with a bit more 'go' (such as a staffy). We all know the answer to that one though don't we? :( fighting :(

I remember when I was young and dogs just roamed estates. You could pretty literally pick up a pup from any given house with dogs. Perhaps I'm still scarred from this. On the most part you could barely pick out one vague breed at times. It was a case of 'well, theres some border collie.... and deffo some labrador.... perhaps a bit of terrier....' :o

Thankfully times have changed in this respect.... and crossbreeds and mongrels can be truly wonderful (and lets face it the owner has the most to do with this) but it would be hard to say "oh yes, this will make wonderful pet" if you don't know what it is :hihi:

well in those days people had 'nice little dogs' as pets, so crossing one with another just produced something else with different ears and different colouring, but still a similar sort of temperament

these days there are too many fighting breeds or large breeds being crossed with wholly inappropriate mates!

I can remember Staffs becoming 'the dog to have' in the early nineties around here yet they were quite rare. They were so very sought after and thought of as the 'cool' breed to have. Thankfully I saw no fighting. It was simply a reputation thing. The "I look well hard with this dog" thing :rant:

I've seen a switch over the years. It's gone from Staffs to Akitas to those wrinkly big things (Know the name but wont spell it cos it sounds like a 'bleep' moment :hihi: )

sharpeis! now there's a dog that needs handling by an experienced owner!

Mastiffs? same goes really

sharpeis! now there's a dog that needs handling by an experienced owner!

Mastiffs? same goes really

Yes wrinkly all over. I've seen quite an increase in this breed and the more I see them the more I notice they are with people who can barely seem to look after themselves :(

they can't look after the dogs either sometimes - they appear quite frequently in rescue :(

on the subject of which - can you have a look at the thread in my sig and see if you can help out with some posters for us please Kblade?

Shall take a looky :)

I don't have a printer at the moment so can't help that way but time allowing would be happy to help with any online stuff.

well if you could just spread the word and find one or two people who could print and display for us that'd be great Kblade :thumbsup:

I've got a link I'd like you to look at too (as you're volunteering) but I need to put some feedback questions together first ;)

I can see my 'ignore' list getting longer already :rolleyes:

And an excellent polite rebuff. This is almost like chess.

er no. My printer broke months and months ago. common knowledge cos I actually need it (and want one) but can't afford to replace it

sharpeis! now there's a dog that needs handling by an experienced owner!

Mastiffs? same goes really

and the trend seems to be to cross staffies with shar peis for some reason

I'm sorry if I'm waffling a tad. I just tend to think of stuff and go with it then think about properly later :blush:

Join the club!

The sad thing is, society is stopping people from owning well mannered, well socialised dogs because dogs aren't allowed anywhere.

In many ways the latch key dogs of old were better socialised and more suited to being pets purely because they got out and about and saw things and were handled by different people on their trips around.

There was less of a concern about dog theft so people would quite happily take their dog everywhere and leave him tied up outside a shop - or even sat there leash-less. He got to see more and was never destructive or bored because he spent pretty much all day with his owner.

If you lived in the countryside, as my mum did growing up (that makes her sound really old but she's only 44) it was even better because dogs went everywhere - even into the shops.

Nowadays you can't hold dog training classes to ensure dogs are well trained because kids play in the hall on a different day and apparently thoroughly disinfecting a hall after a dog training class is STILL against health and safety :loopy:
You can't socialise your dog because he's not allowed to go anywhere and you can't leave him tied up because someone might steal him... I mean - have we really any chance of having a dog friendly society ever again?!

And somehow... a dog wearing a fluroescent jacket with a logo on is less dirty than the others!

Anyhoo - [/RANT] I shall disappear now before I burst a blood vessel... :D

my cousin breeds and shows she offers full aftersales advice and makes sure that the pups are going to the right homes for example she has just got a litter atm and one pup she thinks will not come up to show standards so is offering that for sale as a pet the others are going to show homes but a women enquired and my cousin asked for abit of info abou her and it turns out she works all the hours god sends and has a dog walker the pup wouldnt have instant access outside now to my cousin that is a big no no so its safe to say the pup wont be going there.

also has ayone seen the amount of staffies that are taken to shows? the class's are that big they take most of the day to me that is concerning as most will be breeding so who are they selling pups to?

what Lotti said!

This is my chief gripe about places that don't allow dogs, and when somebody tells me in a snotty tone (not if they're nice about it I hasten to add), that they serve food so can't have dogs, I inform them that it isn't against the law, so if they are telling me THEY don't permit dogs, they should just say so

I'm making it a personal mission to stop people thinking they can treat dog owners as second class citizens as a matter of course. Brude often wears his Hi-Vis jacket if we're going somewhere new (such as through London) firstly to make him less of a tripping hazzard, but secondly because anywhere that isn't sure if they should allow dogs or not seem to think he's 'working' and don't mind him being there! The fact that he's so well trained helps with that misconception too. It still bugs me that the jacket opens doors though - life shouldn't be this hard! and it isn't in Belgium :suspect: