I read today that some government think-tank has dreamed up a fantastic scheme whereby road tax is scrapped and drivers pay a charge per mile instead, nationally. This would be about 16p a mile on rural roads, and about double that on urban roads. Well, basing it on the average annual mileage of 11000, that amounts to £3520 with urban mileage or half that for rural mileage, a fair slice of anyones annual income, and a fair bit more than the current road tax! The tax:spend ratio on roads is already out of proportion, so I don't know where this money would go, but not into improving the roads thats for sure - currently for every £5 of tax raised from drivers, £1 goes towards road improvements and public transport, so its not like theres a cash shortage in this field - they obviously have something better to spend it on.

Anyway, you will argue that this ridiculously high taxation will meet the intended goals of reducing traffic as people will use their cars a lot less. But what about those who have to commute to work and have no choice but to use their car? If an average commute of 20 miles a day has to be taken for 5 working days all year long, then assuming no weekend use, thats £1664 per year. This is about 8% of the average salary. This is simply ridiculous. When will this campaign against the motorist end? People should accept that cars are here for good as they are the only plausible solution to travel - public transpot just isn't good enough for most people, waiting around, queueing up, carrying hand luggage everywhere, and taking longer to reach the destination.

I understand that the government want to cut down on road users and traffic congestion, but if what you said is true, then charging an average of three grand a year is ridiculous, especially for people such as me, of whom a car is a necessity as I live out in the sticks, where neither the tram or a regular bus route are thought as needed.

If they are to do such a thing, they need to improve the transport infrastructure immensely so that people don't need cars, but we all know that the rail and bus routes will have nothing done about them. And what about people who say work in Leeds but live in Sheffield due to the house prices being less? Are the government going to reduce house prices by say, 20% to compensate? Nope.

Its a crazy idea from crazy people who just would just hand the money over to Asylum Seekers and people who cheat the benefits system.

Originally posted by jayjay03
Its a crazy idea from crazy people who just would just hand the money over to Asylum Seekers and people who cheat the benefits system.

Yeah. We need to get a new transport system working - cable cars perhaps? Then get the BNP in power to get rid of all these asylum seekers, especially the Albanian ones.

[/tongue out of cheek]

What's the source if you don't mind me asking?

This is something along the lines I'd have expected from the Fat Controller a couple of years ago.

Whoever has dreamed up this. Is there anymore proof of their stupidity needed?

Originally posted by Lickszz
What's the source if you don't mind me asking?

This is something along the lines I'd have expected from the Fat Controller a couple of years ago.

Whoever has dreamed up this. Is there anymore proof of their stupidity needed?

I'd be interested in the source too. Sounds like a similar idea I've heard re:abolishing car tax. Put the tax on fuel instead. The idea being that people who *use* the roads most pay most tax. Sounds fair to me.

Nomme

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3189274.stm

http://www.metro.co.uk/metro/standard/article.html?in_article_id=13500&in_page_id=1

are a couple of sources. Just search for it.

Originally posted by nommedenet
I'd be interested in the source too. Sounds like a similar idea I've heard re:abolishing car tax. Put the tax on fuel instead. The idea being that people who *use* the roads most pay most tax. Sounds fair to me.

Nomme

It's just fuel is already taxed to the hilt. Businesses might just increase charges on goods to recoup the monies. The end result will be passed on to the consumer via these increased charges for goods. This will mean that people would be paying more for fuel and goods.

Originally posted by Lickszz
It's just fuel is already taxed to the hilt.

Not to mention taxed TWICE: The fuel has the government duty (a tax) put on it, then VAT (another tax), so you are paying the VAT on tax! I'd be interested to know if anyone has a breakdown of the cost of a litre of fuel.

Actually this sounds like a fairly good idea to me.

The prices are less for people who live in rural areas, which makes sense, because public transportation often doesn't serve these areas.

Loads and loads of pollution is caused by people driving small distances - maybe if this came into practice people would use their cars less when they didn't need to.

Get a bus!! I do! (exceptions: disabled people and people who live out in the sticks)

<waiting to be shouted at, but it's what I think>

It could get people out of cars, but I agree the public transport just isn't good enough.

How would this be enforced though?? Surely it'd be far too expensive to get it all set up.

Originally posted by alchresearch
Not to mention taxed TWICE: The fuel has the government duty (a tax) put on it, then VAT (another tax), so you are paying the VAT on tax! I'd be interested to know if anyone has a breakdown of the cost of a litre of fuel.
The figure is approx 75% of the cost of fuel is tax and VAT.

If this congestion charging idea is really about the environment then the governement should "off-set" the increase in revenue it will generate against other taxes e.g. the lower rates of income tax. This way there is a real incentive to be "green" because you'd be better off. But it's not about the environment - it's just another stealth tax to increase the Treasuries coffers.

I am so, so, so disappointed with this governement.:cry: :cry: :cry:

Originally posted by purplepippa
Actually this sounds like a fairly good idea to me.

The prices are less for people who live in rural areas, which makes sense, because public transportation often doesn't serve these areas.

Loads and loads of pollution is caused by people driving small distances - maybe if this came into practice people would use their cars less when they didn't need to.

Get a bus!! I do! (exceptions: disabled people and people who live out in the sticks)

<waiting to be shouted at, but it's what I think>


A bus just isn't possible for people who have to commute more than a few miles to work. People would have to switch buses at certain stops and getting to work would take several times longer. On top of that, when they get their they could be soaking wet if its been raining, freezing cold in winter, and knackered from carrying heavy bags and suitcases around everywhere. They would also probably be irate from having to stand up on a crowded noisy bus.

The "lower" rates you talk about in rural areas - 16p a mile. Bearing in mind that people living in rural areas will also tend to do more mileage, it will still cost them a couple of thousand a year or more. Like I said, this is a fair chunk out of anyones salary other than a Premiership footballers. We already have a pay per mile tax in the form of fuel tax and thats already ludricously high.

Cars are necessary and people against them should accept this. Also, maybe if the government spent more time and money on ways to improve public transport as a credible alternative to the car rather than throwing money and time at schemes designed to simply penalise the driver, car users may have a serious choice to make. Until then, the cars the only realistic option.

Now that most of us have got P.C.s, we could all be working from home and that would solve the congestion on the roads, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by halevan
Now that most of us have got P.C.s, we could all be working from home and that would solve the congestion on the roads, wouldn't it?


Dream on. Companies like being able to patronise and have power over their workers all day too much for that. Also, the government doesn't really want to solve congestion or reduce the amount of cars, its just a smokescreen for another stealth tax. What more can you expect of a labour government? The only difference is that in the case of road, fuel and congestion taxes, its more a case of tax and tax than tax and spend.

When Top Gear was on, Clarkson said that journey times were 30% longer than three years ago, yet there are no more cars on the road now than there was then.

Congestion problems are down mainly to poorly planned roadworks (I was once in a two mile jam at 3am on the M6 because three lanes had been cut down to just the hard shoulder when there were no roadworks being carried out),

intentionally mis-timed traffic lights (before the congestion charge in London),

and poor driving skills (dawdling in all three lanes of the motorway, lorries overtaking each other when they are doing the same speed, and people not paying attention when the lights change to green)