dwain chambers has failed at the high courts in his bid to go to the olyimpics i think he should be allowed he has done his punishment so there for i think he should be allowed what are everyone elses views on this

He was given a two yr ban in general when convicted but lifetime ban was set for Olympic competitions

He can run in world championships as far as I know- I think the decision is right because if he was given the go ahead to run in Beijing, then what message does that send to the youngsters who want to emulate a sport hero??

IMO he does deserve to earn a living and I wish him the best in it, even if he continues athletics, but not at any Olympic venue. The message and stance of BOA had to be absolute.

My thoughts are very similar to yours Bazooka. I do feel sorry for him, especially as he is our quickest sprinter and he has been punished, but at the same time, they can't go altering the punishment at a later date.

Im glad he failed in his appeal. He doesnt deserve to go to Beijing. He broke the rules, he must suffer the consequences. Why should they change the rules just for him?

Yes, hes fast and would have likely won some medals but at the end of the day, he only has himself to blame.

As for the income, wait for his book which Im sure he will write.

He should not go - he's admitted his guilt and he's been allowed to run some races, but he doesn't deserve to get his whole career back - what about all the athletes who have lost out over the years due to his cheating - has he compensated them for money he cheated them out of? And what about the opportunities he stole from others?

He won't even get close to a medal - there are quite a number of guys running way under 9.90 this year....and a couple running under 9.80.

We win bugger all anyway, but at least we do it honestly.
If he had gone then i can see every medal we win will be tainted by the possibility of it being drug aided.
Good riddance to cheating rubbish..

Hopefully the vile drug cheating Christine Ohuruogu will be next, she should be hobbled like James Caan in Misery.

He should be punished but not for life. Has everyone forgotten the footballer who refused to turn up for drug testing or something as he 'forgot', he still plays internationally after being banned for a Euro. Dwain is a good prospect, has paid his dues and athletics should have the same low standards as our other national sports.

He should be punished but not for life. Has everyone forgotten the footballer who refused to turn up for drug testing or something as he 'forgot', he still plays internationally after being banned for a Euro. Dwain is a good prospect, has paid his dues and athletics should have the same low standards as our other national sports.

agreed - and didn't he offer to spill the beans on the whole drug/doping scene in athletics but got the knockback?

i think he should have been able to he has done his punishment an knows what he did was wrong but he admitted

He should be punished but not for life. Has everyone forgotten the footballer who refused to turn up for drug testing or something as he 'forgot', he still plays internationally after being banned for a Euro. Dwain is a good prospect, has paid his dues and athletics should have the same low standards as our other national sports.

Rubbish, the cheating, low life was crap with the drugs, what makes you think he's a 'good prospect' without them.

As for him doing his time, again rubbish.

He broke the biggest taboo in athletics ie drug cheating. Should a teacher be allowed to go back to teaching when he/she is caught kiddy fiddling.

NO.

Linford Christie was handing medals out at the Olympic Trials at Alexander Stadium, talk about double standards.

Rubbish, the cheating, low life was crap with the drugs, what makes you think he's a 'good prospect' without them.

As for him doing his time, again rubbish.

He broke the biggest taboo in athletics ie drug cheating. Should a teacher be allowed to go back to teaching when he/she is caught kiddy fiddling.

NO.

There's no taboo about drugs in top level track and field I assure you unless you think most teachers are actually kiddy fiddlers. People can say what they want but we'll never know if they are clean, the drugs developers are light years ahead of the testers and there's no reason to believe that wont always be the case.

I'm not saying we should ignore the fact that people are on the juice like we have done in the past if it suited us but I struggle to see how the high and mighty BOA can say no to Chambers but allow 26 others get round it in the past quite easily. I know that Chambers is challenging the legality of the rule and that those previous just arse-kissed and played innocent but the bylaw itself is however morally correct, a joke.

In my opinion the only way WADA/BOA etc are going to make any kind of impact is if they change the law so they can store samples indefinitely so if a new drug gets found they can then retest, disqualify from events and claim the winnings back through the courts. That would make athletes think a lot harder, much harder than the current 'stay clean, earn a living off government grants but never win anything major or do the juice like the rest of the big boys, give myself the best chance to compete even though I've a slight chance of getting caught' dilemma.

dwain chambers has failed at the high courts in his bid to go to the olyimpics i think he should be allowed he has done his punishment so there for i think he should be allowed what are everyone elses views on this

I'd thought that part of his punishment was a life time ban from the Olympics. He knew this when he decided to cheat, so it seems very hypocritical for him to complain only after he got caught. If you can't serve the time, you don't do the crime.

Does anyone know if Christine Ohuruogu has a lifetime ban.

Does anyone know if Christine Ohuruogu has a lifetime ban.

As it was never suspected that she actually took performance enhancing drugs, she successfully appealed against her ban.

Does anyone know if Christine Ohuruogu has a lifetime ban.

Ohurougu has never returned a positive result, which many people are latching on to; the fact that failing to appear and/or provide a sample is still a failed drug test seems to escape them, or else be deemed unimportant.

In fact, several competitors have been allowed to compete in the Olympics post-ban, despite the BOA's rule; that was part of Chambers' argument, and in all honesty that was the only fair point that he had. Why pick on him, when others have been exempted? I suspect the desperate, almost feverish insistence on not taking him was entirely due to his admitting that he cheated on purpose; all those who claim outraged innocence, that they were fed drugs by a trainer without their own knowledge, or that it was a complete accident ... they seem to get leniency. Chambers states openly that he wanted to cheat, and did cheat; the prevailing attitude seems to be that on those grounds, he does not deserve the leniency shown to others.

It's an odd argument, since I would have thought myself that someone who holds his hands up, plays honest, admits he cheated, accepts he got caught, and has decided to go straight from now on, deserves MORE sympathy than those who insist that either the results are flawed, or it was someone else's fault. Still, I think that anyone who has ever taken a long-term performance-enhancing drug - as Chambers did, with steroids - should be banned lifetime, since the long-term effects of those drugs will still be around. Chambers can never be clean; all that muscle that he was able to build up because he was on drugs, he still has.

As for his main thrust, that the lifetime ban represents an unfair restraint of trade, never was going to wash. You don't earn money at the Olympics, so he's not being denied his living.

Ahh yes I forgot about the long term effects of his drug use.

i think he should have been able to he has done his punishment an knows what he did was wrong but he admitted

Well, no he hasn't done his time. His punishment was a lifetime Olympic ban, and that should remain, and has done.

agreed - and didn't he offer to spill the beans on the whole drug/doping scene in athletics but got the knockback?

Who cares?

"Please Sir, please Sir? It's not just me ..... boo hoo, boo hoo ....."

He cheated, and should suffer the consequences of being found out.

<snippety of all the stuff I agree with>

As for his main thrust, that the lifetime ban represents an unfair restraint of trade, never was going to wash. You don't earn money at the Olympics, so he's not being denied his living.

Well, were he to be successful at the Olympics, then his fees for endorsements would multiply n-fold. I agree that he wouldn't be paid for performing in Beijing, but his potential earnings could become much higher.

Should have thought about that before cheating then, really, shouldn't he? Sorry and all that, but I have no sympathy at all.

what makes you think he's a 'good prospect' without them.



Have you actually seen him run? :rolleyes:

He cheated and shamed english athletics
Goodbye to the cheating git,he doesn't deserve to be associated with sport

Absolutely. The guy's a disgrace.

Have you actually seen him run? :rolleyes:

If he was allowed to compete in the Olympics, I think that the best he could hope for was to make the final. Also it is worth remembering that he caused 3 other sprinters to loose their medals because of his cheating.

Just thinking about how many other cheating gits we've had and what happened to them so I had a quick look and made a small list:

Dwain Chambers - THG et al - 2year + Olympic lifetime ban
Linford Christie - Nandrolone - 2yr from IAAF despite appeal from UKAthletics. IAAF said "The Arbitration Panel believes that UK Athletics misdirected itself and reached an erroneous conclusion when clearing these athletes."
Dougie Walker - as above
Gary Cadogan - as above
Mark Richardson - as above
Rio Ferdinand - missed 1 drugs test - 8 month ban from FA
Lisa Kehler - Terbutaline - Public Warning
Mark Lewis-Francis - Cannabis - Public Warning
Jason Livingstone - Methandianone - 4 years
David Millar - EPO - 2year ban, back riding the Tour this year (far more important than the Olympics)
Christine Ohuruogu - missed 3 tests in a year - 1 year ban + Olympic ban overturned on appeal
Solomon Wariso - Ephedrine - 3 month ban, allowed to compete at Commonwealths
Tim Don - 3 missed tests over 18 months - no immediate suspension so he can win triathlon worlds, 3 month ban in offseason - no Olympic ban


Not the most consistent really, the BOA or UKAthletics. Put it this way, 31 appeals to the bylaw, only 4 (incl Chambers) have been rejected. With time to prepare a proper case Carl Myerscough's got a good chance of rubbishing the bylaw even if he's not one of the BOA's 'favourites'.

Just thinking about how many other cheating gits we've had and what happened to them so I had a quick look and made a small list:

Dwain Chambers - THG et al - 2year + Olympic lifetime ban
Linford Christie - Nandrolone - 2yr from IAAF despite appeal from UKAthletics. IAAF said "The Arbitration Panel believes that UK Athletics misdirected itself and reached an erroneous conclusion when clearing these athletes."
Dougie Walker - as above
Gary Cadogan - as above
Mark Richardson - as above
Rio Ferdinand - missed 1 drugs test - 8 month ban from FA
Lisa Kehler - Terbutaline - Public Warning
Mark Lewis-Francis - Cannabis - Public Warning
Jason Livingstone - Methandianone - 4 years
David Millar - EPO - 2year ban, back riding the Tour this year (far more important than the Olympics)
Christine Ohuruogu - missed 3 tests in a year - 1 year ban + Olympic ban overturned on appeal
Solomon Wariso - Ephedrine - 3 month ban, allowed to compete at Commonwealths
Tim Don - 3 missed tests over 18 months - no immediate suspension so he can win triathlon worlds, 3 month ban in offseason - no Olympic ban


Not the most consistent really, the BOA or UKAthletics. Put it this way, 31 appeals to the bylaw, only 4 (incl Chambers) have been rejected. With time to prepare a proper case Carl Myerscough's got a good chance of rubbishing the bylaw even if he's not one of the BOA's 'favourites'.

So actually how many of the above athletes have admitted to knowingly taking performance enhancing drugs, and have gone on to compete in the Olympics?

So actually how many of the above athletes have admitted to knowingly taking performance enhancing drugs, and have gone on to compete in the Olympics?

The point is that people still go on to the Olympics despite drug bans. Let's not be silly, who would actually admit knowingly doing drugs when they can just say they missed tests (to avoid detection) or never knew their coach was pumping them full of them? Especially when it's a 25k lottery grant + all your earnings from competitions and sponsors. Hell if I was a little quicker I'd play the system too! ;)

The point is that people still go on to the Olympics despite drug bans. Let's not be silly, who would actually admit knowingly doing drugs when they can just say they missed tests (to avoid detection) or never knew their coach was pumping them full of them? Especially when it's a 25k lottery grant + all your earnings from competitions and sponsors. Hell if I was a little quicker I'd play the system too! ;)

Ok then I'll rephrase it, who from your list actually competed in the Olympics after failing a drug test?

Ok then I'll rephrase it, who from your list actually competed in the Olympics after failing a drug test?

None of the above (bar Chambers) have actually been good enough to make it into the Olympics squad after their initial ban. Is this because they were missing the juice or because they were the wrong side of 30? Probably a bit of both amongst other things although theyre not all banned from the Olympics. As I say though if you're a young athlete in the middle of a cycle while on the juice you're simply not going to be there when the testers arrive.

None of the above (bar Chambers) have actually been good enough to make it into the Olympics squad after their initial ban. Is this because they were missing the juice or because they were the wrong side of 30? Probably a bit of both amongst other things although theyre not all banned from the Olympics. As I say though if you're a young athlete in the middle of a cycle while on the juice you're simply not going to be there when the testers arrive.

So how can you say that the BOA are not being consistent?

So how can you say that the BOA are not being consistent?

Current athletes there with drug bans/positive tests: 6
Number of athletes eligible for Beijing this Summer: 4

:confused:

Current athletes there with drug bans/positive tests: 6
Number of athletes eligible for Beijing this Summer: 4

:confused:

No, I asked you how many athletes are going to Beijing who failed a drugs test, you said none because no one has actually been good enough to make it into the Olympics squad after their initial ban.

Which current British Athletes who are going the Olympics have actually failed a drug test?

No, I asked you how many athletes are going to Beijing who failed a drugs test, you said none because no one has actually been good enough to make it into the Olympics squad after their initial ban.

Which current British Athletes who are going the Olympics have actually failed a drug test?

We're going round in circles here, the bylaw is there to prevent selection to anyone who has been found guilty of a drug offence, not just those who have failed drug tests.

As I've pointed out its fairly easy to miss 3 drug tests while on a juice cycle yet go to the Olympics. Also, we wont know how many of this year's crop of athletes get caught doing the juice for a couple of years at least so just because they might not have provided a positive test previously that doesnt mean they wont in the future.

We're going round in circles here, the bylaw is there to prevent selection to anyone who has been found guilty of a drug offence, not just those who have failed drug tests.

As I've pointed out its fairly easy to miss 3 drug tests while on a juice cycle yet go to the Olympics. Also, we wont know how many of this year's crop of athletes get caught doing the juice for a couple of years at least so just because they might not have provided a positive test previously that doesnt mean they wont in the future.

The point is that the other athletes had mitigating circumstances as to why they had received a ban for a drug offence, and appealed successfully on those circumstances. Chambers appeal was not based upon mitigating circumstances, his appeal was based upon the law not being a fair law. So you cannot compare his case with others, therefore to say that the BOA is acting in an inconstant manner is disingenuous.

'Mitigating circumstances', love it. Those circumstances being they didnt want to give a blood test while on a juice cycle? lol.

Seriously though if 90% of those that appeal have sufficient mitigating circumstances why even bother going to court?

'Mitigating circumstances', love it. Those circumstances being they didnt want to give a blood test while on a juice cycle? lol.

Seriously though if 90% of those that appeal have sufficient mitigating circumstances why even bother going to court?

The big comparison that everybody is making is with Christine Ohuruogu, whose mitigating circumstance was that there was no evidence that she ever used performance enhancing drugs. It was accepted that the test after her third missed test was close enough to conclude that she wasn't taking performance enhancing drugs, but she was rightly punished with a ban for missing the tests; because of this the comparison isn't really valid.

The big comparison that everybody is making is with Christine Ohuruogu, whose mitigating circumstance was that there was no evidence that she ever used performance enhancing drugs. It was accepted that the test after her third missed test was close enough to conclude that she wasn't taking performance enhancing drugs, but she was rightly punished with a ban for missing the tests; because of this the comparison isn't really valid.

What about the first two tests? Specifically the test earlier in the same month as the third one right before a major championships? Or those of Tim Don? Also, taking a test 3 days later does not mean there was nothing in somebody's system the original day of testing, far from it. Dependent on the drugs substances can stay in the body for less than 18 hours so to clear her on that evidence alone is shaky at best.

Put them in Greece like Kostas Kederis and Ekaterina Thanou a few years back and they as well as their coach could also face civil charges for missing 3 doping tests, in all 8 criminal charges were laid against the Greeks while Ohuruogu becomes a heroine here.

Its a disgrace that Ohuruogu is even in with a chance, she should never compete in any olympic event ever again.

Its a disgrace that Ohuruogu is even in with a chance, she should never compete in any olympic event ever again.

Why?messagetooshort

What about the first two tests? Specifically the test earlier in the same month as the third one right before a major championships? Or those of Tim Don? Also, taking a test 3 days later does not mean there was nothing in somebody's system the original day of testing, far from it. Dependent on the drugs substances can stay in the body for less than 18 hours so to clear her on that evidence alone is shaky at best.

Put them in Greece like Kostas Kederis and Ekaterina Thanou a few years back and they as well as their coach could also face civil charges for missing 3 doping tests, in all 8 criminal charges were laid against the Greeks while Ohuruogu becomes a heroine here.

Fair enough I can understand your point of view and respect that, so do you also think that Cambers shouldn't run?

Why?messagetooshort

She made a mockery of the testing procedure, it makes no difference she never tested positive.

She made a mockery of the testing procedure, it makes no difference she never tested positive.

She was quite rightly was banned, and served her time. Because of her case several changes in the testing were made, because of the failings.

She was quite rightly was banned, and served her time. Because of her case several changes in the testing were made, because of the failings.

Has there been about 20 or so succesful challenges recently ?

Have you actually seen him run? :rolleyes:

Yes and without the drugs he can't crack 10 seconds so in the company of the very best he has no chance. :rolleyes:

Has there been about 20 or so succesful challenges recently ?

I don't know. I remember reading about the Ohuruogu case, and it convinced me that it is not so black and white when it comes to drug tests. If I remember correctly, the final test she missed came about because the AAA (or who ever was looking after her) rang her to say they had to change where she was training that day because of a schools sports day. She assumed that because the AAA made the change the relevant authorities would have also been informed about the change of location, unfortunately for her the drug testers turned up at the original location for a surprise test.

There was a case where Mark Lewis-Francis missed a test because he competing in a Championship for Britain, he assumed because he accepted selection in the team the authorities would know he was competing in the team instead of training back home in the UK.

I don't know. I remember reading about the Ohuruogu case, and it convinced me that it is not so black and white when it comes to drug tests. If I remember correctly, the final test she missed came about because the AAA (or who ever was looking after her) rang her to say they had to change where she was training that day because of a schools sports day. She assumed that because the AAA made the change the relevant authorities would have also been informed about the change of location, unfortunately for her the drug testers turned up at the original location for a surprise test.

There was a case where Mark Lewis-Francis missed a test because he competing in a Championship for Britain, he assumed because he accepted selection in the team the authorities would know he was competing in the team instead of training back home in the UK.

I shall have a read with regards to Ohuruogu, I thought she simply didnt turn up and used memory lapse as an excuse.

I shall have a read with regards to Ohuruogu, I thought she simply didnt turn up and used memory lapse as an excuse.

You don't go to the drug testers, they come to you. You have to fill in a diary stating where you are going to be at any given time and they decide when to test you.

In my opinion the only way WADA/BOA etc are going to make any kind of impact is if they change the law so they can store samples indefinitely so if a new drug gets found they can then retest, disqualify from events and claim the winnings back through the courts. That would make athletes think a lot harder, much harder than the current 'stay clean, earn a living off government grants but never win anything major or do the juice like the rest of the big boys, give myself the best chance to compete even though I've a slight chance of getting caught' dilemma.[/QUOTE]


IMO Chambers has been made an example of, and although the ban should have been upheld, things are a little too cloak and dagger with drugs accusations rightnow...
The above quote is a fantastic idea, and I'd love to see it happen. However I can't see the WADA/BOA funding such long term storage arrangements, which is a shame...

In my opinion the only way WADA/BOA etc are going to make any kind of impact is if they change the law so they can store samples indefinitely so if a new drug gets found they can then retest, disqualify from events and claim the winnings back through the courts.


Morally, that's a great idea. Legally, it has no hope whatsoever; you can't ban someone for having used a drug that wasn't illegal at the time. Nor can you impose a blanket ban on "performance enhancing substances" ... since that would include sugar for energy, water to combat dehydration, and other equally stupid examples.

When a drug is illegal but no test for it exists, this process can be followed, and sometimes is. (Lance Armstrong had samples taken from him and kept, during his early Tour-win years when EPO was banned but no useful test existed; and they were later tested once a workable test for EPO had been developed. He has taken out a court injunction to prevent the results ever being released.)

Fair enough I can understand your point of view and respect that, so do you also think that Cambers shouldn't run?

I would actually like to see Chambers run, he's got a bit of character and he is quick so I'd actually turn the Games on for 5 minutes whereas with the rest of British athletics I cant think of anyone interesting other than maybe Sotherton and Idowu. Not the way to really base a point of view but thats my opinion on Dwain, my view on the whole issue surrounding the saga as I've said previously is that the bylaw's a joke.