I've got a rotty, she's about 2 years old and of late she's started panting all the time, during the day and at night. I know it's been warm of late but I was wondering if this is normal?

Went to bed at about 12.30 last night and she was doing it then.

Is she spayed? Could she be coming into season? Has there been anything unusual like building works outside? Is she drinking more than normal? Is her appetite normal?

Panting can be a sign of stress so think about whether there's anything that could be stressing her more than usual.

I would probably get her checked at the vets if you can't think of anything that's stressing her out, there are conditions that affect their ability to maintain a constant body temp.

Is she spayed? Could she be coming into season? Has there been anything unusual like building works outside? Is she drinking more than normal? Is her appetite normal?

Panting can be a sign of stress so think about whether there's anything that could be stressing her more than usual.

I would probably get her checked at the vets if you can't think of anything that's stressing her out, there are conditions that affect their ability to maintain a constant body temp.


Has been no building works around, she does seem to be drinking more than usual, her appetite seems the same as usual and as I can think of nothing that could be stressung her out. Except other dogs walking past front and back of the house, she does get giddy and bark alot when they do.

I was thinking season or phantom pregnancy too- Ailsa our daft dobermutt occasionally does this when she's in season or having her phantom.

Apart from the panting, is she showing any other signs of fever?

No other signs of fever, her usual happy self.

Has she had a season recently? As katkin says, if she's having a phantom that can cause them to pant.

To be honest, if it's not something she's always done and you are noticing it - I would say it needed checking out.

Presumably you haven't been walking her more often because of the nice weather? If it's warm and she's been exercising more she will likely drink more and pant more.

First time we had it with Ailsa, we were really worried,never having owned a bitch before -panting, pacing about and generally not acting 'normal', so we took her to be checked over. She got a vitamin shot from the vets and a thorough check over and we were told to exercise her as normal, not let her brood in her bed with her toys. She's always been a bit of a dramaqueen so we do as the vets advised us.

Being a big black dog, she tends to feel the heat more so we keep her out of bright sunlight if we can avoid it and wherever we take her, we always have a bottle of water to hand (she drinks from the bottle like a baby - won't touch it if you pour it onto a bowl!)

We once had a very scary moment at the seaside- she'd been paddling. going generally lary and (without us realising it) drinking sludgy sea water. It was hot and sunny and even though we tried to keep her under shade, she didn't look right and seemed to be losing her balance - kept trying to back away rather than walk forwards- clear signs of early sun stroke but fortunately we always carry lots of cool water when we go to the beach, plus towels- we were able to soak towels in cool water and get her to slowly drink so that she could dehydrate. We got her into shade and she soon got back to normal.

Thing is- people around us thought it was amusing that we were fussing over a dog-and thought it was funny we wrapped her in wet towels and put a golf umbrella over her until we could get her back to somewhere more shaded - if only they realised how close she could have been to death! When we got her home, she was back to her old self so we were lucky. heat stroke is a quick killer if not tackled in time, hence the big campaign every year to remind people not to leave pets in locked cars.

Now, on warm days, we don't go out in the mid day sun or if we are already out, we tend to make for woods (Whirlow, Endcliffe or if she's really lucky, Padley Gorge)

I always do the wet towel trick with Eddy if he gets too warm whereas Takara will catch water from a squirty bottle and then when she's had enough she closes her mouth and her eyes and has it squirted in her face to cool her down :lol:

Main thing I have to worry about with mine is sunburn :rolleyes: they have their own suncream otherwise they get little red noses and red ears! :lol:

hmm come to think of it now you mention it she has sempt alot more restless of lace, whining alot and pacing around the house, also has taken to coming up and sleeping on the bed with us at night and if told to go out sleeping outside the door or in the bath room.

Phantoms usually occur upto two months after the dog's last season - does this sound about right?

possibly though not too sure.

I'd suggest getting hold of DAP diffuser (available online or from vets) which will help reassure her - it emits 'dog appeasing pheromones' that mothers give off to their pups to help keep them feeling safe.

Don't allow her to 'nurse' her teddies or blankets, if it's not too severe I don't see anything wrong with giving her a cuddle when she's feeling clingy but try not to do it too much or too much on her terms because although right now it's a hormonal thing, once the hormones are out of the way, it's easy for it to become a 'learned behaviour' because you've allowed them to initiate attention and affection so much that they become a bit spoilt!

Keep an eye on her to ensure she doesn't start lactating, you can gently press her nipples to see if anything comes out - if it does you can get something from the vet to dry her up.

Do be aware that most bitches will have a phantom after every season following the first phantom they had and these can be very distressing so if you don't intend to breed it's kinder to have her spayed to prevent this happening again (especially as bitches can become aggressive during and following phantoms).

If you don't intend to spay her try getting hold of some raspberry leaf tablets for her next season - by feeding them during the season and following it, you may help prevent a phantom pregnancy next time or at least make it less severe.

Good luck.

crikey, it all seems a tad daunting to be honest, never really thought of this side of things getting a bitch, but then again never intended on getting a dog!

Yep - bitches can be very complicated!

Is there anything that's stopping you getting her spayed? Spaying has it's medical and behavioural benefits and it's much fairer on her if you don't intend to breed from her. If you do intend to breed from her, think very carefully about it - it's expensive, requires an awful lot of knowledge and risks losing your bitch in the process.

Spaying does come with risks - my bitch became incontinent following her spay, the vets couldn't tell whether it would've developped anyway or whether it was a result of the spay, obviously there's the risk of the anaesthetic and the fact it is quite a big op but most dogs recover within a couple of days and never have any incontinence problems. There has been evidence to suggest it has a negative effect on behaviour but I've only ever witnessed positive effects as bitches no longer have to go through any hormonal imbalances upsetting them.

Unspayed bitches are also left open to womb infections such as pyometra which can be fatal unless caught very quickly.

Feel free to ask any questions or get in touch privately if you want any more info.

Phantoms usually occur upto two months after the dog's last season - does this sound about right?

Ailsa's phantoms tend to be between 3-4 months after a season, (we keep a record, because the vet told us 2 months but she's never been that quick)

Ailsa's phantoms tend to be between 3-4 months after a season, (we keep a record, because the vet told us 2 months but she's never been that quick)

had a look at her today and now pretty sure it's a phantom, she is lactating.

Aw bless her... I'd suggest going to the vets to get her checked out, see if they can give you anything to dry her up and possibly speed up the process of finishing her season.

Katkin, that's interesting! I'm pretty sure Takara's were less than 2 months after her season so it seems it could be just about any time!

Phantoms? stress?spaying? please give it some thought, some people on here think spaying is the answer to everything, it can be justified for certain reasons, even vital in cases of male aggression or repeated attacks of pyometra in bitches, but because a dog pants i dont think so.
Not one reply has asked about your dogs diet, weight,or general condition, yet spaying has yet again raised its head to soon.
Try the basics first,rottys pant especially if overweight, and thats about 90%of them, they carry heavy coats which should be groomed regularly this helps.
Big dogs are expensive to feed, some people buy the cheaper complete dog foods, which contain maize, maize flaked or flour will overheat your dog, especially in warm weather the coat ussually becomes oily and may even thin a little.
The first step should be to change her diet, Red mills trakker would be my first choice[a greyhound maintanance food] its very reasonably priced but good quality.
An old trick is to boil nettle leaves in water and use the water to soak the compleate food with, you can also feed the boiled leaves, they are harmless after boiling and quite tasty, but only pick fresh green ones that you are sure havent been sprayed by anyone.
Most bitches will bloat after and during a season its perfectly natural, many lactate a little this is not a phantom, ive only seen a true phantom once in my life they arent that common.
If the basics dont work go to a good vet[rare nowadays] and get her checked out properly, dont listen to people who mention spaying before asking the basics,ive never spayed in my life, luck maybe? common sense and experience definatly.

PS, give her Epson salts, a heaped teaspoon a day in water/milk to dry her lactation, dont give her to much shell get the runs.

Phantoms? stress?spaying? please give it some thought, some people on here think spaying is the answer to everything, it can be justified for certain reasons, even vital in cases of male aggression or repeated attacks of pyometra in bitches, but because a dog pants i dont think so.
Not one reply has asked about your dogs diet, weight,or general condition, yet spaying has yet again raised its head to soon.
Try the basics first,rottys pant especially if overweight, and thats about 90%of them, they carry heavy coats which should be groomed regularly this helps.
Big dogs are expensive to feed, some people buy the cheaper complete dog foods, which contain maize, maize flaked or flour will overheat your dog, especially in warm weather the coat ussually becomes oily and may even thin a little.
The first step should be to change her diet, Red mills trakker would be my first choice[a greyhound maintanance food] its very reasonably priced but good quality.
An old trick is to boil nettle leaves in water and use the water to soak the compleate food with, you can also feed the boiled leaves, they are harmless after boiling and quite tasty, but only pick fresh green ones that you are sure havent been sprayed by anyone.
Most bitches will bloat after and during a season its perfectly natural, many lactate a little this is not a phantom, ive only seen a true phantom once in my life they arent that common.
If the basics dont work go to a good vet[rare nowadays] and get her checked out properly, dont listen to people who mention spaying before asking the basics,ive never spayed in my life, luck maybe? common sense and experience definatly.
Why should a dog suffer with hormonal problems, phantom pregnancies, the risk of pyometra and breast cancer? not to mention the fact that Rottis are one of the breeds most likely to end up unwanted in rescue centres along with staffies.

Spaying is the responsible thing to do and it helps a dog feel more comfortable.

When I was at home we had two bitches, the first was PTS with the most horrific mammory tumours that wept, the second lived to 16 but she also had tumours.

My own rescued dog had breast cancer that spread to her brain before she was put to sleep (she was to old and ill to spay when I took her on).

My bitch had a phantom pregnancy after her very first season, all because I decided to let her have one season first, it was distressing for her there is no doubt about that.

To spay your dog is to be a responsible owner, it is also significantly lowering and in some cases totally obliterating the chances of your dog dying from an awful, distressing and painful disease.

Phantoms? stress?spaying? please give it some thought, some people on here think spaying is the answer to everything, it can be justified for certain reasons, even vital in cases of male aggression or repeated attacks of pyometra in bitches, but because a dog pants i dont think so.
Not one reply has asked about your dogs diet, weight,or general condition, yet spaying has yet again raised its head to soon.
Try the basics first,rottys pant especially if overweight, and thats about 90%of them, they carry heavy coats which should be groomed regularly this helps.
Big dogs are expensive to feed, some people buy the cheaper complete dog foods, which contain maize, maize flaked or flour will overheat your dog, especially in warm weather the coat ussually becomes oily and may even thin a little.
The first step should be to change her diet, Red mills trakker would be my first choice[a greyhound maintanance food] its very reasonably priced but good quality.
An old trick is to boil nettle leaves in water and use the water to soak the compleate food with, you can also feed the boiled leaves, they are harmless after boiling and quite tasty, but only pick fresh green ones that you are sure havent been sprayed by anyone.
Most bitches will bloat after and during a season its perfectly natural, many lactate a little this is not a phantom, ive only seen a true phantom once in my life they arent that common.
If the basics dont work go to a good vet[rare nowadays] and get her checked out properly, dont listen to people who mention spaying before asking the basics,ive never spayed in my life, luck maybe? common sense and experience definatly.

Gerald - You are incredibly arrogant aren't you.

Had the OP said my dog pants more than other dogs - what could be the reason? I would have asked about the dog's diet, exercise routine etc. etc.

The OP said the bitch has been panting more than usual - now unless she's put a lot of weight on in a very short space of time - this would have been a very gradual process that the OP probably wouldn't notice.

My bitch has had phantoms and they are incredibly stressful. Her's weren't even severe but still very stressful, she became dog aggressive and defensive. I had already decided I wouldn't be breeding from her and due to the fact that most phantoms follow with phantoms after every season I saw no reason to put her through the stress of seasons and phantoms not to mention wanting to find a mate twice a year, and of course those weeks during her season that she wasn't interested but males were - what do you do? Keep an active dog in completely? No - I had to walk her onlead where there weren't too many dogs but I still came across dogs that wanted to get to her and the stress it put her through was unreal.

A lot of the remedies to prevent or stop phantoms are unsuccesful and I wasn't prepared to put her through this.

As for phantoms being rare - they aint. You may not have had experience of them but I, and others on here, have and they're not nice.

I don't see why you're so proud that you've never had a bitch spayed. I cannot understand why anyone would put a bitch through the stresses of hormones and seasons when they had no intention of breeding. Not to mention the very real possibility of a bitch getting caught whilst in season - no matter how good your intentions are, sometimes these things happen. Attempts to stop the pregnancy can result in malformed pups. Nice.

If they OP DOES intend to breed they should be aware of the numbers of rotties in desperate need of homes, the health checks that are required for the breed and the fact that the Dogs Trust themselves - the very people that have to pick up all the pieces after too many dogs are bred from were promoting a subsidised neutering scheme for rotties and their crosses due to the immense number in rescue.

Many of us here in the pets group aim to promote responsible dog ownership, cut the numbers of dogs being bred from and in rescue and to help owners enable their pets to live happy, healthy lives regardless of the owners financial situations or time restraints. NOT to applaud you for however many years experience with dogs you may have. I have to give you credit where it's due, some of your posts are good. But in all honesty, you don't come across as approachable at all and for all your years of experience, I wouldn't go to you for advice. Mainly because I can't stand arrogance.

Lotti i know you are pro spaying and understand why, i wouldnt try to stop anyone spaying,even if just to prevent unwanted pups, but in my opinion if you cant prevent your bitch from mating you shouldnt have her in the first place.
Rottys end up in kennels because some breeders,not all, sell them to inexperienced handlers,some breeds should be licenced and require a test pass before you could own one, im sorry if that sounds harsh but im fed up of my dogs being attacked by ill trained rottys,alsations,akitas and other large dogs,few people really need such dogs,and many live to regret their purchase.
It would be better in my opinion if you tried to promote careful selection of pet dogs to would be owners,its to much like shutting the gate when the horse has bolted to advocate general spaying of bitches.
Some replies on here although posted in good faith are dodgy to say the least,eg a woman has asked what breed would be suitable for a pet,she has 2 children aged 4 and 1,two people have suggested "lurchers" now some lurchers are great pets, but one of the most popular ingrediants used over the last 10 years to create them is pittbull, and many breeders dont know whats in their own stock, i would hardly regard this as good advise,i only post advise that is thought out and tested,if i come over as arrogant and unapproachable its not meant to,but its frustrating and annoying to see people making basic mistakes time after time, and i assure you i have the best interests of dogs and their owners at heart when i reply,im not a member of the fluffy bunny brigade and just say what i think,you dont have to read it,maybe i should stop posting.

Gerald, rather than selecting separate quotes, my replies are in red in your quote :)

Lotti i know you are pro spaying and understand why, i wouldnt try to stop anyone spaying,even if just to prevent unwanted pups, but in my opinion if you cant prevent your bitch from mating you shouldnt have her in the first place.
Whilst I would tend to agree... my bitch nearly got caught. I have a disability which means sometimes I cannot walk her myself and she was in her 3rd week of season. My dad came to walk her for me, I put her non pull harness on to ensure she was easy to walk for him (she's not a bad puller but did used to pull a bit) and he took her for me. He was well aware I'd been walking her on a lead due to being in season so I didn't think to tell him not to let her off.
However, she always stopped bleeding in her third week and had a bit more in week 4 before her season ended. My dad thought that because she wasn't bleeding, she was no longer in season and he let her off the lead.
Thankfully he could run fast enough to stop a spectacular display of nature unfolding on the bowling green.
My point being - accidents can and do happen, regardless of how hard we try.


Rottys end up in kennels because some breeders,not all, sell them to inexperienced handlers,some breeds should be licenced and require a test pass before you could own one, im sorry if that sounds harsh but im fed up of my dogs being attacked by ill trained rottys,alsations,akitas and other large dogs,few people really need such dogs,and many live to regret their purchase.
I agree, some breeders do sell to inexperienced handlers. But this is only part of the reason rotties end up in rescue. They are a top victim of people thinking that because their dog (a breed that has been inappropriately accused of having a bad temperament) is great natured and is beautiful they should breed from them. They don't realise how much it costs, health tests aren't done, puppies are born and if the owners do happen to find homes for them all, they often don't realise they should have a returns policy or don't know who they should be selling to because breeding's meant to be easy :rolleyes:
Your comment about the license and test I agree with - it has been commented on before but personally I don't think it's certain breeds - I'd rather see it happen for all dogs. Whilst smaller dogs may not be able to cause as much damage those poor dogs could still be living under stimulating lives and nipping but you never hear about it.

It would be better in my opinion if you tried to promote careful selection of pet dogs to would be owners,its to much like shutting the gate when the horse has bolted to advocate general spaying of bitches.
Careful selection of pet dogs should be a must but unfortunately it isn't. Well meaning people go to bad breeders not realising. I don't know how many people I've spoken to who had no idea about health tests, back yard breeders, etc etc.
I didn't have a dog until I was 17. I spent a lot of time researching breeds, training etc. etc. and my first dog was not spayed until she was 2 when I decided I definitely didn't want to breed from her (any breeding would've been done with loads of help from her breeder). However, not everyone who chooses to have a canine companion does as much homework. If it were up to me, they would. But they don't. Sad fact of life. I try to encourage it but you can't reach everyone. Especially as most people only seek advice from other owners and dog trainers once they have their dog.
General spaying of bitches not only irradicates the possibility of these well meaning owners who probably don't know all that much about dogs but want a canine companion from ending up with unwanted litters, it also helps to prevent so many seriously canine illnesses and diseases, not to mention the unfair sexual urges that a bitch cannot act on.

Some replies on here although posted in good faith are dodgy to say the least,eg a woman has asked what breed would be suitable for a pet,she has 2 children aged 4 and 1,two people have suggested "lurchers" now some lurchers are great pets, but one of the most popular ingrediants used over the last 10 years to create them is pittbull, and many breeders dont know whats in their own stock, i would hardly regard this as good advise,i only post advise that is thought out and tested,if i come over as arrogant and unapproachable its not meant to,but its frustrating and annoying to see people making basic mistakes time after time, and i assure you i have the best interests of dogs and their owners at heart when i reply,im not a member of the fluffy bunny brigade and just say what i think,you dont have to read it,maybe i should stop posting.
In all honesty... I have not heard anything about breeding pitbull into lurchers and maybe it's true, maybe it's not. I don't know so I won't comment.
I understand that it can become frustrating when you are trying so hard to help people - I've been in the same position and have also had to deal with people in the same position.
I understand you say what you think - I'm the same in many ways, but one thing I've learned from my experience of dealing with people and their dogs, is the more you try and say it as it is and the less 'fluffy bunny' you try to be, the less approachable you come across as and these people shut down to you.
Nobody wants to be preached at or told they're doing everything wrong. They need some encouragement to go the right way and be treated as an equal capable of learning as much as the next person.

Some replies on here although posted in good faith are dodgy to say the least,eg a woman has asked what breed would be suitable for a pet,she has 2 children aged 4 and 1,two people have suggested "lurchers" now some lurchers are great pets, but one of the most popular ingrediants used over the last 10 years to create them is pittbull, and many breeders dont know whats in their own stock, i would hardly regard this as good advise,i only post advise that is thought out and tested

Your right in one way on this, a lurcher is a cross bred dog and you do have to consider the cross to have an inkling on the temperament of the dog, but generally speaking greyhounds make lovely pets.
But I think that you will find that although there are a lot of bulllurchers now, the bull breed used is staffy and not pitbull.

i dont want to blab for long as ive not posted for a while BUT. i do get upset for the dogs. it seems if humans dont want kids they do everything in their power, pill, injection, implant, even hystorectamy but when it comes to our dogs we should keep them under lock and key every six months. i have no problem with spaying or infact not spaying, after seeing a few breeders and their problems which have included having to hand rear, loosing a bitch during birth, and having to hand rear a litter of 11 puppies from day one and its not something to take lightly. yes accidents do happen and will still happen but there are enough things to prevent or correct these accidents. we have a lurcher and as far as i was aware lurchers were x with bedlingtons? anyway ours is fab with kids. but as far as 'accidents'' you only need to have a quick look on e-pups to see all the expensive 'accidents' oops i mean designer puppies! i feel like ive blabbed enough...... for now..

There are a lot of pros and cons to spaying and we have chosen not to spay Ailsa for a number of reasons, amongst them the incontinence potential (she's a docked dobe and when speaking with a number of other dobe owners and vets we were made aware of it being a common offshoot of spaying and did not want to end up giving her medication for life to deal with it). And then there's Von Willebrands to consider... We were also put off because one of our cats died whilst under anasthetic being castrated - I know it's silly and irrational to think it would happen again, but we did not want to risk it, all the same. We are well aware of the risks associated with not having Ailsa spayed too.

We are still able to exercise her in season provided we avoid very public places or busy times and we make sure she is always on her leash. The fortunate thing for us is that Ailsa has absolutely no interest in other dogs whatsoever, so does not express any pressing urge to mate. Not that we take any chances, of course. Her seasons and phantoms are manageable and she does not exhibit any serious distressing symptoms during these periods.

Having your pets neutered is a personal choice and it certainly makes good sense for a whole host of reasons, not least to try to reduce the numbers of unwanted or unwell animals that are the result of accidental or intentional but misinformed breeding, however, I would not press anyone to make the decision, merely point out the pros and cons -it's up to the individual to decide.

When the OP asked for advice, other posters responded from experience, which is probably why so many felt the symptoms sounded so much like a possible phantom or season (or possibly heatstroke). I never got the impression anyone was lecturing the OP, so I'm sorry if anyone felt that way.

we have a lurcher and as far as i was aware lurchers were x with bedlingtons? anyway ours is fab with kids.
Just wanted to clarify the lurcher issue if I may :)

A lurcher these days is basically a sighthound crossed with another type of dog (the breed depends on the job the dog is wanted to do).

It is often collie/greyhound or deerhound, the smaller ones tend to be whippet/bedlington or terrier, and any mix of those dogs really.

There are sighthound/sighthound crosses which technically are not usually considered to be lurchers, sometimes these days staffy is introduced into the mix to give the dog stamina.

technically a lurcher is a cross between a greyhound and an irish wolfhound or deerhound

many people call any tall mongrel a lurcher these days

I dont want to upset or try and belittle anyone, but here are some facts.
Ive hunted,bred and trained lurchers for 35 years, ive also had terriers,greyhounds,whippets and staffys.
Pitbull blood is very common in lurcher breeding,its main purpose is to make dogs stronger and more determined,very useful for "heavy quarry", before i go any further i dont use bull blooded dogs,or associate with people that use them, staffy blood is rarely used to create lurchers,it is however used occasionally to produce non pedigree racing whippets, that dont require a lot of stamina, they only race over 200yds at the most,it can help stamina but needs watering down heavily. I know some lurcher breeders who have used racing whippets over their bitches so it is in some lurchers granted.
The first documented use of bull blood in running dogs i know of was Lord Orford,using bulls on his greyhounds in the 18th century,but you can bet he wasnt the first.
A true lurcher is a cross between a sighthound and a herding breed but other crosses do come under the same banner. The correct term for a cross between two sighthounds is "longdog"no matter what the cross is.
Lurchers can make exellent pets, but if you dont intend to use them for their intended purpose they can be a liability, if you are intending to buy a lurcher pup i would recommend collie crosses rather than any type of terrier cross mine is tottally trustworthy and was easily trained being half welsh hill collie,collie crosses can be bad sheep worriers but are easily broken to sheep when young, mine will walk through a herd of sheep without paying them any attention at all.

I am not going to disagree with you here without further research but I have never ever heard of a pitbull being introduced into lurcher mixes, so I don't know how common that is but I will find out, as lurchers are my dog of choice and I would like to know what is going into them as much as I possibly can.
I have a longdog he is a saluki/greyhound and a beautiful dog , he was my 2nd lurcher after a whippet terrier that once again was a beautiful dog, and now have a third a pharaoh hound/terrier and she has the makings of a lovely dog too.

Moonbird what possible reason would i have to lie,have a look at the countrymans weekly,you could easily pose a question about pit blood being used to them.
Strix, i was writing when you posted,deerhound crosses are very popular mainly due to their looks but they are great dogs as a rule,they are probably the most intellegant sighthound, mainly because they carry collie blood in their genes from about the middle of the 17th century,which is an interesting story but a long one,technically they are longdogs though if crossed with greyhounds.
I have never heard of anyone using Irish Wolfhounds to produce lurchers, the true irish wolfhound is extinct, the iwh we know today was re created by two belgian blokes if my memory serves me right,they used greyhound,deerhound,great dane [a bull breed]and god knows what else,they suffer from hip problems which should be avoided when trying to produce lurchers or any dog really,it probably came from the dane genes, its my theory that deerhounds and the original IWH,are probably the same dogs but its only an educated guess.

time and time again people keep saying pitbull blood...no such thing really as pitbull is a TYPE not a breed...so therefore they will have some kind of bull breed in them probably staff as its staff crosses that seem to be mistaken for pits alot of the time. great danes i thought we mollosser types not bull breeds

... its my theory that deerhounds and the original IWH,are probably the same dogs but its only an educated guess.
It isn't unusual for there to be a blurring between the two even in the showring

I am not going to disagree with you here without further research but I have never ever heard of a pitbull being introduced into lurcher mixes, so I don't know how common that is but I will find out, as lurchers are my dog of choice and I would like to know what is going into them as much as I possibly can.
I have a longdog he is a saluki/greyhound and a beautiful dog , he was my 2nd lurcher after a whippet terrier that once again was a beautiful dog, and now have a third a pharaoh hound/terrier and she has the makings of a lovely dog too.

now I'm jealous- I love pharoah hounds

now I'm jealous- I love pharoah hounds

Well you wouldn't know that they were to be honest they just look lurchery :D, Pee is a gorgeous little thing though and a lovely personality.

I have just googled pitbull x greyhound lurchers and found 11,9oo results, not all entries are about pits though.
ami j o dear, have you actually read my posts?
The Great Dane is a descendant of the molloser, a large type of bullmastiff brought into mainland europe by the roman legions, they were used as war dogs and beasts of burden.
As for pits being a type of bulldog you are correct,a springer is a type of spaniel,but a springer is still a spaniel,or do you mean they dont actually exist as a seperate strain?
And no i dont think ill find that the commonest bull blood used to create lurchers is staffy, if staffys are used height becomes a problem and further crosses to pure sighthound are needed before useful dogs are produced, pits are taller than staffys and pure pits can be quite lean and athletic, ive seen genuine pits that have nothing else in them and was surprised at their resemblence to labradors, not pet labrador types the leaner working version, in 35 years with lurchers ive only seen a few genuine staffy x types, they are used to create non pedigree racing whippets very occasionally but still need diluting several times before they are viable.
Before anyone starts pointing the finger i would like to point out my only involvement with pits was to rescue 2 youngsters and re home them as pets, and they were spayed by their new owners as is required by law,i hate dogs fighting, any dog, any idiot caught doing it on purpose should be castrated with a blunt knife, but thats just my opinion.

no pitbull is a "type" there is no such thing as a pure pit as its not a BREED of dog its a set of requirements and if a dog fits those its classed as a pit bull. many of these are staff crosses that because of how they look and being taller than a staffy gets them lumped in the catergory. therefore this means that these pitbulls u talk about are actually probably part staff meaning yes it is staffs that are making up the lurchers you talk about

? where are you getting your info,

the Dangeous Dogs Act 1991 clearly states the pit bull "type" yet other dogs on there dont indicating they are a breed and pit bulls arent.

no pitbull is a "type" there is no such thing as a pure pit as its not a BREED of dog its a set of requirements and if a dog fits those its classed as a pit bull. many of these are staff crosses that because of how they look and being taller than a staffy gets them lumped in the catergory. therefore this means that these pitbulls u talk about are actually probably part staff meaning yes it is staffs that are making up the lurchers you talk about

Hmmm not sure about that - I've recently seen a breed standard book for the american pit bull...I attended a talk by Dr Roger Mugford who is often called upon to identify potential pit bulls by the police, up n down the country, and he'd brought a couple of hefty books on pit bulls

Cant remember the title of the book(s) but have just done a quick yahoo search and found this http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

it was him that told us that its the type that he goes to check out.. i was always led to believe it was the american stafford that was the breed and the pit bull the type. i still stand by that many so called pits arent pits

Ami its no use quoting the dda, its not been drawn up by dog fighters and is designed to encapture anything that could be a pit or part pit.
It wasnt im sure drawn up by dog fighters, true pits are a very line bred dog, not available to just anyone, the ones you see paraded round by undesirable types are mostly crossed, true fighting pits would lose their ability if crossed with staffies, generations of families are involved in this barbaric "sport" and dont breed willy nilly, for their dogs to lose.
At present the kennel club are investigating certain people suspected of using pit blood in their breeding, but i dont want to comment on that, not when they condone [the KK] what i would consider harmful dog breeding. I can assure you the info ive posted is accurate, i know people who specifically breed this type of lurcher, although its some time since the pit blood went into them, before they became illegal ther were dozens of adverts in certain weeklys openly advertising pit x greyhounds, and as i know the parties involved personally i think im qualified to comment, no other breed went into them and the pit half was pure.

dont get me wrong i dont agree with the dda its a wooly act that was rushed through

The really sad thing is if socialised early and trained properly pits are great pets,but the idiot element in our society latched on to them.

I have made lots of enquiries with lots of people who know a lot about lurchers and their breeding, and it seems that some bull lurchers (not ordinary lurchers) may have PB somewhere in their breeding but that most of them have different staffy mixes thrown in.

I have gone to quite a lot of trouble to ask lots of people about their dogs and they all say that they have fantastic natures, both with people and with other dogs.

I too googled Bull lurchers and it came up with 980 UK results but most had no relevancy and some sites needed to be joined to be viewed so I don't know what the content of them is.

Obviously then you are correct to certain degree about the bull lurchers, but it does not seem to be very prevalent.

I have to think that the dogs used must be of PB type rather than PB as they are now illegal to breed from, although of course I am not totally naive enough to think that just could not happen.

So folks I think this one has now been done to death maybe we should get back on topic? :hihi:

this is my last post, quite frankly some people open their mouths without putting their brain in gear, thats not my problem, exept when you try and correct them and they know they are wrong they arent decent enough to admit it, to say staffys are regularly used is stupid, to say pits arent is even more stupid, i suspect i know a lot more lurcher owners than anybody who has posted, and just because seomone has one deosnt make them an expert.
But after arguing with my wife for 25 years and never getting an apology when she was proven wrong why should i have thought this would end differently.
The shame is i have a vast knowledge of dogs and would have shared it freely, even though ive been insulted seomtimes ive tried to keep it civil, there are a few people on here worth talking to, and they stand out like a sore thumb, and i thank them for their input, even though i havent seen eye to eye with them on some things i can spot people with ability,goodbye.

this is my last post, quite frankly some people open their mouths without putting their brain in gear, thats not my problem, exept when you try and correct them and they know they are wrong they arent decent enough to admit it, to say staffys are regularly used is stupid, to say pits arent is even more stupid, i suspect i know a lot more lurcher owners than anybody who has posted, and just because seomone has one deosnt make them an expert.
But after arguing with my wife for 25 years and never getting an apology when she was proven wrong why should i have thought this would end differently.
The shame is i have a vast knowledge of dogs and would have shared it freely, even though ive been insulted seomtimes ive tried to keep it civil, there are a few people on here worth talking to, and they stand out like a sore thumb, and i thank them for their input, even though i havent seen eye to eye with them on some things i can spot people with ability,goodbye.
Well I take it this is abuse is aimed at me then?
I didn't open my mouth without putting my brain into gear at all, I actually admitted that I wasn't sure and researched what you said myself, and all I have said is the answers that I came up with, I actually agreed that you were right if you look closely...not sure why I needed to apologise?as I never said you were wrong.
Having one lurcher does not make anyone a expert no your right, I am no expert... but I do know a fair bit, and that is because I am interested to learn, what is it that makes you an expert?
It's a pity that you have to be so unpleasant really!

Moonbird, i know you didnt open your mouth without thinking, on the contrary you thought long and hard, other people didnt.
You are however trying to insult my intellegence, thats why i had a dig,you contradict yourself badly, eg "ive never heard of pb blood being used" if you havent heard of pb blood being used you cant possibly talk to other lurcher owners, its common knowledge that it is used, i honestly dont know anybody who is involved with lurchers who hasent heard of it, its a hot topic, this can only mean you dont "know a fair bit" to my mind you imply staffys are used frequently and i know they arent, litter wastage is high with such crosses.
Your friends [who apparently own bull crosses] are correct staff blood and pit blood is used, i never said it wasnt, i also said it gets in lurchers through whippets and it does, a friend serves lots of bitches with such a dog.
Heres a tester for your knowledgeable friends, its not meant to be clever or arrogant, and if they do know lots about breeding and lots about lurchers they should know the answers. A very well known hare dog was bred by a guy from bradford, the dog was greyhound x pb x greyhond x saluki, it was owned by a guy from near york, if they dont know what im talking about i would suggest they arent as knowledgeable as you think, all 3 are dead as far as i know, or i wouldnt pose the question and it is ridicilously easy, the dog was probably the most used stud of his day.
You say you have agreed with me, if saying "some dogs may have pit blood in them" is agreeing then yes you have, i think thats weak personally, i am in fact a very nice bloke, but am very passionate about my lifelong obsession,dogs, nobody i know is an expert certainly not me,but i am pretty good, if this comes over as anything but a balanced sensible semi defensive reply it isnt,and the wife thing was meant jokingly.

Gerald H First of all I have to say that this is the last time that I am going to discuss this now it is getting rather tedious and it is also way off topic, but for politeness sake I will answer.

Firstly I did not try to insult your intelligence, I merely said that I had not heard of PB being introduced into lurchers and I wanted to check it out, basically so that I did not tell anyone anything that was wrong, I found out that it was true and this I have already said.

I do know quite a few other people who own lurchers, none of which are bull lurchers, and to be honest the topic has never come up before as bull lurchers do not particularly interest me, I wouldn't consider a dog for myself with that combination ... far to strong.

When I am with the other lurcher owners that I know we do not talk massively about the breeding of lurchers as I don't know anyone who would want to...most of the dogs are neutered rescued dogs, we simply talk about lurchers in general, our dogs, others known to us, behaviour and care etc, I think that if you would care to read some of my other posts you will realise that I am rather anti breeding...breeding is not my thing at all.

The people that I asked about the bull lurchers were members of a well known lurcher rescue, now they may or may not know the answer to your question, I suspect that some will do but I am not prepared to ask them or put them to the test in that way...as in my opinion it really isn't very important to do so, I don't care if you think them credible or not the thing is that I do and so do many others.

The fair bit that I know about lurchers was not meant as a boast, just that I do know a fair bit...just that.

I do not however profess and never did profess to know a fair bit about breeding them so I do not feel that I contradicted myself either.

I feel that for some reason you want to make it look as if I am some sort of fraud and I know nothing, you would be misguided to do so because that is not so, But I certainly am not prepared to take tests of knowledge to prove myself.

Thankyou for the reply MB, i didnt want to make you look like a fraud, anyone who helps unwanted dogs deserves respect, ive re-homed dogs myself and have a rescued russel.
I was defending things i know are correct, but didnt mean to cause any real harm, i didnt join to argue with you or anyone else, whats the piont in that?
seomtimes i can be a pain in the arse, that said i am an experienced dog man and think i could make valuable contributions, i could use some lessons in tact perhaps.
One thing i would like to make clear is i dont dislike pb lurchers,although i dont have any use for one and anything more than a 1/4 pit is limited in use,its the types they attract[not all owners] who i dont like.

im heavily involved in greyhound and lurcher rescue and can agree that during that time we have had seen lurchers that you would say could have Pit in them, the majority we we see mostly have collie, and saluki type mixes, we would never home to someone with young children as any rescue dog is an unknown quantity and no matter what breed you dont know what theyve been through and how they will react to certain cirumstances so a face high child is a definate no no if they are not dog savvy which most kiddies under a certain age wont be. I do though have 4 lurchers of my own and they are all fabulous pets nothing more and have proved fab with children of all ages in controlled circumstances. anna.x.

If I were to have her spayed where would be the best place to take her, funds are limited at presen as I've recently bought my first house and the mortgage is a tad excessive aswell as the increasing cost of living, especially as a dog is something I hadn't intended of having or budgeting for in the first place.

If anyone were to know about schemes it would be Rainrescue- I'm certain that there was a scheme to help people out with spay or neuter costs specifically for Rottis and Staffies recently. Hopefully that will still be running- I'd PM her if I were you.

I don't regret getting Molly spayed one bit. She's got a fabulous personality and is a great example of a GSD, and having seen her mothering my foster kittens I know she'd make a wonderful mum, but because she's a rescue I don't have any papers for her so any resulting pups wouldn't be able to be registered and there are far too many perfectly lovely full breed GSDs in rescue centres.

On top of that I'd want to have a lifelong contract with anyone taking on her babies and that could potentially mean taking in a dozen or so GSDs later on in life (since the average number of pups is 9 for the breed) and neither my house nor my finances would allow for that.

She was also having seasons every 12 weeks, which meant that she was spending a third of her time being chased by dogs which upset her and made her defensive towards other dogs. The vet was also a little worried that having seasons so frequently was a sign of an abnormality which was something that I did worry about.

It took her about a week to be totally back to normal after the op- now she can carry kittens round to her heart's content and stay a perpetual puppy :)

Thanks for that I've just pm'd them now. Hopefully will hear someting back relativly quickly.

Unfortunately the dogs trust spaying and neutering scheme for Rottis and Staffies is now ended, if you are on benefits there is a scheme with the council that will pay towards the cost, this is dependant I believe though on the dog being at risk of pregnancy eg living with a full male... it won't hurt to ask though, that is also a dogs trust scheme I believe, or ring the dogpound for information.

this is ridiculous, she is now off her food and becoming overly aggressive to other dogs, I've phones round the rspca, pdsa and no one is interested in helping and the cost of having her spayed is way beyond what I can afford.

It's disgusting, do places not realise that people who are not on beneifts also struggle financially?

I am also pro spaying. I have a 15yr old rescue bitch. We adopted her at 14 and put her through the stress of a spay due to all the mammory tumours she developed the first thing the vet said when she examined her was they need to come off and she needs spaying asap to try and prevent more.

I will never have a unspayed bitch (unless health prevented it) due to the health implications that not spaying can cause. Along with the risk of pregnancy no matter how good an owner you are there is always the chance.

Twoflags i am sorry you cannot get help with paying for teh spay i wonder if you could find a vet who would accept payment in installments to make it easier for you.

something like that would be beneficial I have to admit. It just seems stupid the only people entitled to help are those on benefits. Alright I'm a home owner so seen by most to be better off fine fair enough, though with £1000 a month going on repayments with bills on tops it doesn't leave much left for anything else.

It does have to be said that you can't get her spayed for another 12 weeks anyway Twoflags (spaying in season is dangerous for her so vets choose to do it after one season but well before the next.

In 3 months could you not start to put together a fund for her being spayed?

I appreciate that money is tight (I'm not entitled to any benefits because I'm on just over the allowance with my income insurance and I've got a mortgage too, so I do understand) 3 months would be enough for me to come up with a fair proportion of the bill.

It does have to be said that you can't get her spayed for another 12 weeks anyway Twoflags (spaying in season is dangerous for her so vets choose to do it after one season but well before the next.

In 3 months could you not start to put together a fund for her being spayed?

I appreciate that money is tight (I'm not entitled to any benefits because I'm on just over the allowance with my income insurance and I've got a mortgage too, so I do understand) 3 months would be enough for me to come up with a fair proportion of the bill.

ahh right I didn't realise she'd have to wait, in that time it should be easy enough!

It does have to be said that you can't get her spayed for another 12 weeks anyway Twoflags (spaying in season is dangerous for her so vets choose to do it after one season but well before the next.

In 3 months could you not start to put together a fund for her being spayed?

I appreciate that money is tight (I'm not entitled to any benefits because I'm on just over the allowance with my income insurance and I've got a mortgage too, so I do understand) 3 months would be enough for me to come up with a fair proportion of the bill.


still it is ruddy daft though!

It does depend how long ago her season ended... as I understand it she's out of season but in a phantom? When did her season finish?

You need to make sure she's not coming back into season when she is spayed - so basically, she needs to see the vet to give her something to stop her lactating and speed up the end of the phantom, then when the phantom comes to an end she'll need spaying asap really.

as far as I'm aware she's not in season now no, she's not bleeding and hasn't for about two months