I remember watching The Matrix a few years ago now and kinda quite liking it but my OH hated it. I missed it on the box the other night but it's time for me to check it out again so I've just subscribed to LoveFilm.com and have chosen it as my first film. (Local Blockbuster closed and have to go into Hillsborough now - very inconvenient!)

Defying gravity, bullet time, humans are viruses ... what was it all about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czpn7wxWgAg

"We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion.
The great task in life is to find reality."
(No, that's not from the Matrix, just soemthing Google threw up)

(Taps forehead and gets vaguely wooden sound - feels real to me)

This is quite cool ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aXo3JR4ldg&NR=1 but
can anyone clue me in - give me an inside track before I watch The Matrix again?

Oh and have you seen Sex and The City? Should I watch that next ... and keep my OH happy or is it one to let her watch when I'm out?

I remember watching The Matrix a few years ago now and kinda quite liking it but my OH hated it. I missed it on the box the other night but it's time for me to check it out again so I've just subscribed to LoveFilm.com and have chosen it as my first film. (Local Blockbuster closed and have to go into Hillsborough now - very inconvenient!)

Defying gravity, bullet time, humans are viruses ... what was it all about? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czpn7wxWgAg

"We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion.
The great task in life is to find reality."
(No, that's not from the Matrix, just soemthing Google threw up)

(Taps forehead and gets vaguely wooden sound - feels real to me)

This is quite cool ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aXo3JR4ldg&NR=1 but
can anyone clue me in - give me an inside track before I watch The Matrix again?

Oh and have you seen Sex and The City? Should I watch that next ... and keep my OH happy or is it one to let her watch when I'm out?

Haha, snap! I just watched "The Matrix" for the umpteenth time last night!

I always get something new from it each time - it's endlessly fresh and challenging.

And it gets more relevant as time goes on... follow the white rabbit...

Masterpiece.

StarSparkle

To me the Matrix was very symbolic of life in the west. It's not to be taken literally of course, but at the same time it was clearly made with the intent of finding parallels with real life (just like the underlying philosophy in Fight Club).

For example, I think the discussion morpheus has with neo in that room before he offers him the choice of blue or red pill gives us some relative meaning.

What is the matrix? It is the wool that has been pulled over our eyes to blind us from the truth... that we are slaves. In the film, the human drones are wired into the machine as they sleep. Again, I find this to be symbolic of the technocracy that rules over our lives. We are "wired" into the "system" so-to-speak. We are parts of the "machine".

My mind is crammed full of useless crap as I have been at work, but I will post more tonight when I can clear my thoughts. This is about the separation of realms in society and a superimposed existence. It's not about a physical illusion, but rather an illusion of consciousness and state of mind.

I'm sure Sparkle can provide all the insight you need to the meaning behind this brilliant film.

Cheers

To me the Matrix was very symbolic of life in the west. It's not to be taken literally of course, but at the same time it was clearly made with the intent of finding parallels with real life (just like the underlying philosophy in Fight Club).

For example, I think the discussion morpheus has with neo in that room before he offers him the choice of blue or red pill gives us some relative meaning.

What is the matrix? It is the wool that has been pulled over our eyes to blind us from the truth... that we are slaves. In the film, the human drones are wired into the machine as they sleep. Again, I find this to be symbolic of the technocracy that rules over our lives. We are "wired" into the "system" so-to-speak. We are parts of the "machine".

My mind is crammed full of useless crap as I have been at work, but I will post more tonight when I can clear my thoughts. This is about the separation of realms in society and a superimposed existence. It's not about a physical illusion, but rather an illusion of consciousness and state of mind.

I'm sure Sparkle can provide all the insight you need to the meaning behind this brilliant film.

Cheers

Cheers for that, hun. "We are parts of the machine" - reminds me of a conversation we had the other day... ;) :)

Sparkle x

Cheers for that, hun. "We are parts of the machine" - reminds me of a conversation we had the other day... ;) :)

Sparkle x

Yes, there was a little inspiration from that ;)

Oh and have you seen Sex and The City? Should I watch that next ... and keep my OH happy or is it one to let her watch when I'm out?

Embarrassingly, yes I do watch SATC. Why? I do not know. I suppose I just enjoy the unabashed shallowness of it all. Kind of like watching Friends. You don't have to think. It's veg-TV. The key is to acknowledge that, and your brain won't be damaged by it :o

I may be mistaken but I believe the Matrix is based upon the philosophy of "Hyper-Reality" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality) as espoused by the French Philosopher Jean Baudrillard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard).

Baudrillard books appear throughout The Matrix Trilogy.


Edit: Baudrillard himself has distanced himself from the film saying that it at best represents a failed reading of his ideas. Confusingly he also admits to never having seen the film.

Bloody inconsistent philosophers.

I may be mistaken but I believe the Matrix is based upon the philosophy of "Hyper-Reality" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality) as espoused by the French Philosopher Jean Baudrillard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard).

"Baudrillard in particular suggests that the world we live in has been replaced by a copy world, where we seek simulated stimuli and nothing more." - from the Hyper-Reality link.

I didn't really understand The Matrix first time round but will look forward to the LoveFilm DVD dropping on my doormat someday soon ... I was prompted by the TV showing I missed and that idea about getting lost in unreal or virtual world's. It does seem that we all spend ever more time interacting with machines rather than each other. How do I know any of you are real haha?

Embarrassingly, yes I do watch SATC. Why? I do not know. I suppose I just enjoy the unabashed shallowness of it all. Kind of like watching Friends. You don't have to think. It's veg-TV. The key is to acknowledge that, and your brain won't be damaged by it :o

I shouldn't fight too hard if I'm pressed to watch SATC then? Disengage brain, veg-out and earn a few brownie points!

I didn't know about the link between Baudrillard and The Matrix - interesting stuff!

I've tried to watch it at least 3 times and never managed it. Must try harder ;)

What is the matrix? It is the wool that has been pulled over our eyes to blind us from the truth... that we are slaves. In the film, the human drones are wired into the machine as they sleep. Again, I find this to be symbolic of the technocracy that rules over our lives. We are "wired" into the "system" so-to-speak. We are parts of the "machine".

Yes, yes ... but isn't it also about being willing participants? We get a choice whether to take the red pill or the blue pill. It's not The Matrix or "the system" that is our enemy, but us and our lack of will to free ourselves.

"The system" ... is the cleverness, the cunning, the techniques used by others to trigger feelings. It's the creation of virtual worlds to act as a substitute for the real world. We trade the very last of our free will, our courage, our ability to take action for ourselves in return for quick and easy emotion triggered by those who seek to program our minds and use our energy for their purposes. We do this because we can't be a**ed to work things out for ourselves.

We all do have a choice. We can make the effort to free our minds, choose our own destiny, live for our own purpose, or we can give in, and live in the fantasy worlds created by others.

"To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human"

"Why do my eyes hurt?" "You've never used them before."

"I can only show you the door. You are the one who has to walk through "


Here's something to think about ... Is the internet part of "The Matrix"?

... this from splodgeyAl on another thread on this forum ...

"i thought the point of social networking sites was for the site owners to accumulate a whole bunch of data about their members that they can subsequently sell to a bunch of marketeers.

but i could be wrong"

Are social networking websites a substitute for real social networking? Are we willingly denying our human impulses to connect in a more human way - where we can see people's faces, their smile, where we can shake their hands and hug our friends?

Are we plugging ourselves into The Matrix ever more for somebody else's benefit, or is it really a good thing to spend so much time tapping away at a keyboard and looking at words on a screen surrounded by adverts programming our minds to buy the things that we kid ourselves will make us happy?

Excellent observations, spinac.

You are correct about this whole consciousness being an "opt in" process. However, the alternative, to become disassociated with the system that engulfs every aspect of our lives, to disenfranchise ourselves from this superimposed realm of artificial programs and codes, we would be left out in the cold so-to-speak.

To digress slightly... In the US there is a growing movement of people who are revoking their 14th Amendment citizenship/subject status, in order to become of "denizen" status and effectively live outside the codified system of governance currently operating out of Washington DC. However, they can only do this because Americans have the natural law realm to fall back to. British (Crown) subjects/citizens do not have this primary realm that recognises natural law or individual sovereignty. We have always been incorporated as individuals into the legal collective sovereignty of a corporate (legal) entity.

All the contracts we make with various institutions bind us further into this system. The law of contract is the reason why we are subject to whatever definitions of our rights (priviledge/liberty), pains and punishments the ruling sovereign entity write into the terms and conditions. Your birth certificate was the first official contract you made (with the oversight of your informants, of course) with the Crown/sovereign. You then become surety for the investment that party in the contract takes out in your name over the course of your life (citizenship status, national insurance, licencing, income tax, bank accounts and all the other benefits applied to your legal person).

So while we are still flesh and blood, with a consciousness (or "soul" if you're into that), we are also a representative of a fictitious creation that manages our life in the legal, contractual realm. This realm is superimposed onto more and more of our perceived reality until we are fully immersed and dependent on the system. The most obvious example is currency - Bank of England credit - printed for us to spend in this consumerist theme park. Tragicomically, you cannot survive without this instrument of perpetual debt when you're programmed into the system that is defined by said currency.

That is what, I feel, Morpheus (well, whoever wrote his script...) was referring to when he stated we are blind to the fact we are slaves. Slaves with chains of gold, yes, but slaves nevertheless in a modernised, sanitised technocratic feudal system that you can't see or touch. We are ruled by programs and codes. I know something else that is ruled by programs and codes...

You can enjoy the rides in the theme park, but it's when you become so immersed and dependent on it that you suffer mentally. Best to separate the two realms of existence and understand where you are and who you really are beneath the programmed interface.

I loved the Matrix but thought that it was full of pretentious drivel, the plots cool, but it says NOTHING about the human condition. Got some awesome special effects and slo motion bits, very cool, but a piece of philosophy, it is not.

Also did anyone else notice the entire trilogy is filmed with a really dim green light on everything, like in almost every scene there's a green tint? it's weird and makes it look cool.

I've never seen The Matrix because I always thought it was pretentious sci-fi nonsense aimed at geeks with few friends. I trust the thread title is therefore ironic?

I've never seen The Matrix because I always thought it was pretentious sci-fi nonsense aimed at geeks with few friends. I trust the thread title is therefore ironic?

You've hit the nail on the head, except you missed one adjective. It's good pretentious sci-fi nonsense aimed at geeks with few friends

I loved the Matrix but thought that it was full of pretentious drivel, the plots cool, but it says NOTHING about the human condition. Got some awesome special effects and slo motion bits, very cool, but a piece of philosophy, it is not.

I disagree. It may not have been blatant, but there were parallels between the metaphores in the film and the "real world". These Hollywood scribes are very good at not being obvious with their suggestions.

Eyes Wide Shut is another film with hidden parallels. Kubrik knew the name of the tune.

I disagree. It may not have been blatant, but there were parallels between the metaphores in the film and the "real world". These Hollywood scribes are very good at not being obvious with their suggestions.

Eyes Wide Shut is another film with hidden parallels. Kubrik knew the name of the tune.

Unless you set your film on a completely alien world and have no human characters, it would be impossible to write a film that isn't relevant to the "real world" (why does this need speech marks?) in some way. It just seems plain to me that everything in the matrix, the characters, the story, the fight sequences, and yes even the themes, are all directed to making the film seem as cool as possible to men between the ages of about 13-25 and not any attempt whatsoever to comment on society. And it achieved this very succesully.


Also please someone confirm my comment about the green-ness of it i've been wondering for a while now one of my friends said he coudn't notice it and there must be something wrong with my eyes.

Unless you set your film on a completely alien world and have no human characters, it would be impossible to write a film that isn't relevant to the "real world" (why does this need speech marks?) in some way. It just seems plain to me that everything in the matrix, the characters, the story, the fight sequences, and yes even the themes, are all directed to making the film seem as cool as possible to men between the ages of about 13-25 and not any attempt whatsoever to comment on society. And it achieved this very succesully.

Well, if that's how you see it, that's how you see it. It's not like I'm forcing myself to find a deeper meaning in the story, but certain things in the film stand out. Most Hollywood films are written with a surface/aesthetic appeal, but you'll find the scribes (such as Lucas, Spielberg etc.) are extremely intelligent and clued up on how to incorporate abstract metaphores into their work.

Do you think Star Wars was just a cool film to appeal to geeks? The Empire Strikes Back? What do you think that was referring to? Look at the characters. Lucas was telling us something.

Unless you set your film on a completely alien world and have no human characters, it would be impossible to write a film that isn't relevant to the "real world" (why does this need speech marks?) in some way. It just seems plain to me that everything in the matrix, the characters, the story, the fight sequences, and yes even the themes, are all directed to making the film seem as cool as possible to men between the ages of about 13-25 and not any attempt whatsoever to comment on society. And it achieved this very succesully.


Also please someone confirm my comment about the green-ness of it i've been wondering for a while now one of my friends said he coudn't notice it and there must be something wrong with my eyes.

The film is tinted green when the characters are in the matrix and the colour is washed when they are not, this is all done to evoke a feeling of difference between the two realities. There are also certain colours that are more pronounced to give the audience a feeling of something not quite right.

The trilogy is one of my favourites and although there is a 'coolness' to it I don't find it pretentious. I find it a wonderful piece of art and philosophy. The parallels between the story and many others (including the bible) I find fascinating. There seem to be deeper levels to each time I watch and new questions raised. I love the closure at the end of the trilogy and the idea that it's all happened before again and again. The flawless mythology explaining werewolves, ghosts etc and the overall feeling that we all contribute to the problems of the world and we can all cure them if we just woke up!

Well, if that's how you see it, that's how you see it. It's not like I'm forcing myself to find a deeper meaning in the story, but certain things in the film stand out. Most Hollywood films are written with a surface/aesthetic appeal, but you'll find the scribes (such as Lucas, Spielberg etc.) are extremely intelligent and clued up on how to incorporate abstract metaphores into their work.

Do you think Star Wars was just a cool film to appeal to geeks? The Empire Strikes Back? What do you think that was referring to? Look at the characters. Lucas was telling us something.

Yes, without a doubt.

Yes, without a doubt.

I think Lucas would disagree...

The film is tinted green when the characters are in the matrix and the colour is washed when they are not, this is all done to evoke a feeling of difference between the two realities. There are also certain colours that are more pronounced to give the audience a feeling of something not quite right.

The trilogy is one of my favourites and although there is a 'coolness' to it I don't find it pretentious. I find it a wonderful piece of art and philosophy. The parallels between the story and many others (including the bible) I find fascinating. There seem to be deeper levels to each time I watch and new questions raised. I love the closure at the end of the trilogy and the idea that it's all happened before again and again. The flawless mythology explaining werewolves, ghosts etc and the overall feeling that we all contribute to the problems of the world and we can all cure them if we just woke up!

That's an EXCELLENT summary, Schizodoor. Top post.

There's so much there in the film(s), so many layers - like you said, I get something new every time I watch it.

There are so many fascinating ideas, it's hard to pick individual ones out: the idea of the "Great Architect" of the universe is straight out of Freemasonry; the idea that everything has happened before and shall happen again - see "Battlestar Galactica" too for a fabulous up-to-date reworking of this; the walking through portals into different realities, whole different worlds existing behind each door in a corridor; that once you've taken the pill (ie had your mind opened - shades of "Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass"" here - remember - Neo was told to "follow the white rabbit"...) you can never go back; etc

There are many references in it to both Eastern and Western philosophy, there is even a touch of the "Da Vinci Code", if you like, with the character Merovingian! The intellectual exercise and challenge of working through all it is immense and very satisfying.

The film is a work of art and work of philosophy at one and the same time. A masterpiece, as I said before. And it is, of course, VERY cool! :)

But it does require a certain level of intellectual sophistication to even begin to understand.

StarSparkle

Some people have the breadth of imagination to enjoy the escapism that scifi and fantasy films offer.

Others just see them as nonsense - each unto their own, I suppose.

I thoroughly enjoyed the Matrix series and found them, while brain-out special effects bonanzas in one respect, to be thought-provoking.

Guess I'm just a geek.

I can see my views are in the monority here but i stand by my comments that this film does not say a single thing about the human condition, and while it is not completely pretentious in itself does seem to invoke a wave of pretension from anyone who sees it and likes to think of themselves as intellectual. I find it funny that you guys could possibly call this film a piece of philosophy, you're all mad.

I can see my views are in the monority here but i stand by my comments that this film does not say a single thing about the human condition, and while it is not completely pretentious in itself does seem to invoke a wave of pretension from anyone who sees it and likes to think of themselves as intellectual. I find it funny that you guys could possibly call this film a piece of philosophy, you're all mad.

Er, no we're not mad. Symbol literate perhaps, able to look below the surface of the story telling perhaps, but not mad.

I struggle to see how the Matrix is NOT about the human condition.

I can see my views are in the monority here but i stand by my comments that this film does not say a single thing about the human condition, and while it is not completely pretentious in itself does seem to invoke a wave of pretension from anyone who sees it and likes to think of themselves as intellectual. I find it funny that you guys could possibly call this film a piece of philosophy, you're all mad.


A comment parralelling 'isms'

Agent Smith: The great Morpheus. We meet at last.
Morpheus: And you are?
Agent Smith: A Smith. Agent Smith.
Morpheus: You all look the same to me

A comment on the human condition:

Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

And that's just 2!

A comment parralelling 'isms'

Agent Smith: The great Morpheus. We meet at last.
Morpheus: And you are?
Agent Smith: A Smith. Agent Smith.
Morpheus: You all look the same to me

A comment on the human condition:

Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

And that's just 2!

I have to admit, this speech greatly troubles me - I'm concerned that it may have been taken literally by a large number of people.

There is a lot of nihilism about in the world at the moment, a lot of feeling that the planet would be better off without the human race being a parasite on it. A belief that the world and universe would somehow be better off without the human race - I find this development wrongly conceived and very worrying.

The human race is capable of great cruelty and great evil indeed - but it is also capable of great acts of courage and self-sacrifice, and the human spirit itself is ultimately unquenchable.

The human race is greater than it knows - to paraphrase a comment I once heard.

StarSparkle

I think Lucas would disagree...

I think Lucas made so much money from Star Wars that he realised long ago that substance is not required to make shedloads of money when you can have special effects and catchphrases. If Star Wars was such a pure artistic vision then why has it spawned 2 sequels, 3 lame prequels and about 500 lame novels, aswell as every single piece of merchandise you could possibly imagine. Yet again, Star Wars was very good, i love it infact, but it's not deep, not at all, it's aimed at kids, it's about good vs evil, just enjoy it for what it is and don't read into stuff that's not there.

I can see my views are in the monority here but i stand by my comments that this film does not say a single thing about the human condition, and while it is not completely pretentious in itself does seem to invoke a wave of pretension from anyone who sees it and likes to think of themselves as intellectual. I find it funny that you guys could possibly call this film a piece of philosophy, you're all mad.

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...

Do you consider everything you don't understand to be mad? :)

Can you not accept that your current level of intellectual comprehension is simply not developed enough yet to see what the rest of us see in "The Matrix"?

Would you not consider taking what we're saying, and watching the film again, with what we've said in mind, being aware that there are many complex layers in the film?

Open your mind a little, accept that there may be more to the world than that which you currently understand?

You sound like an intelligent person, who unfortunately refuses to open his mind at all. Give it a try - you might be amazed at what you discover! There's a whole world(s) of wonder to be found! :)

StarSparkle

I'm sorry but IMO the Matrix films are the second most OVERRATED trilogy of movies EVER MADE, after the Lord of the Rings movies.

I'm sorry but IMO the Matrix films are the second most OVERRATED trilogy of movies EVER MADE, after the Lord of the Rings movies.

I disagree; the second most OVERRATED trilogy of movies EVER MADE is "The Madness Of King George III" and its two prequels "The Madness Of King George II" and "The Madness Of King George I" .

I'm sorry but IMO the Matrix films are the second most OVERRATED trilogy of movies EVER MADE, after the Lord of the Rings movies.

You just don't understand them, Rich, that's all. Not to worry, lack of understanding seems to be a common problem

StarSparkle

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...

Do you consider everything you don't understand to be mad? :)

Can you not accept that your current level of intellectual comprehension is simply not developed enough yet to see what the rest of us see in "The Matrix"?

Would you not consider taking what we're saying, and watching the film again, with what we've said in mind, being aware that there are many complex layers in the film?

Open your mind a little, accept that there may be more to the world than that which you currently understand?

You sound like an intelligent person, who unfortunately refuses to open his mind at all. Give it a try - you might be amazed at what you discover! There's a whole world(s) of wonder to be found! :)

StarSparkle

Could you be any more insulting? and hilarious at the same time! You can put a little smiley face and give me a teeny compliment at the end of your post but it still reeks of bile and venom. Can you not accept that not everyone who disagrees with you is stupid?

I've watched it through oodles of times as like i've said, i think it's a good film, but there's no deep intellectual stimulation to be had from it, 'blah blah blah the human race are parasites' what a load of trite.

There's plenty of things in the world that i don't understand, but 'The Matrix Trilogy' is not one of them.

"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged
and many of them are so inured,
so hopelessly dependent on the system
that they will fight to protect it."

"I'm trying to free your mind, Neo,
but I can only show you the door.
You are the one who has to walk through it."

From The Matrix

Yes, yes ... but isn't it also about being willing participants? We get a choice whether to take the red pill or the blue pill. It's not The Matrix or "the system" that is our enemy, but us and our lack of will to free ourselves.

"The system" ... is the cleverness, the cunning, the techniques used by others to trigger feelings. It's the creation of virtual worlds to act as a substitute for the real world. We trade the very last of our free will, our courage, our ability to take action for ourselves in return for quick and easy emotion triggered by those who seek to program our minds and use our energy for their purposes. We do this because we can't be a**ed to work things out for ourselves.

We all do have a choice. We can make the effort to free our minds, choose our own destiny, live for our own purpose, or we can give in, and live in the fantasy worlds created by others.

"To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human"

"Why do my eyes hurt?" "You've never used them before."

"I can only show you the door. You are the one who has to walk through "


Here's something to think about ... Is the internet part of "The Matrix"?

... this from splodgeyAl on another thread on this forum ...

"i thought the point of social networking sites was for the site owners to accumulate a whole bunch of data about their members that they can subsequently sell to a bunch of marketeers.

but i could be wrong"

Are social networking websites a substitute for real social networking? Are we willingly denying our human impulses to connect in a more human way - where we can see people's faces, their smile, where we can shake their hands and hug our friends?

Are we plugging ourselves into The Matrix ever more for somebody else's benefit, or is it really a good thing to spend so much time tapping away at a keyboard and looking at words on a screen surrounded by adverts programming our minds to buy the things that we kid ourselves will make us happy?

i dont think people willingly deny their human impulses, it's just that spin-doctors and marketeers are extremely subtle in the psychological skills they use these days.

for instance, how many people have noticed on adverts these days that the amount you save (in a sale advert) is said as (say) "one hundred pounds" but the price you pay is "nine nine nine" (for £9.99 or £999) - there is no mention of money, it's just a number they want from you, but when they are giving some back (or off) it IS money and NOT just a number.

i find this sort of thing fascinating

"To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human"

The context of this is the vicarious/virtual worlds we spend so much time in ... watching others or creating fantasy worlds rather than experiencing the real world first hand for ourselves. (What can we really see, hear, smell, taste, touch, FEEL when we are watching TV or computer screens?)

Yes we should worry about being manipulated by spin-doctors, marketeers, governments, religious cults whatever - but it's our own willingness to give up our freedom to think that is astounding.

Why do we do it? Well there's something even more scary than having our freedom to think taken away and that is to use that freedom to think and in so doing accept responsibility for ourselves!

We give away our freedom to think so easily because we are frightened by our own consciousness and we will do anything to distract ourselves. It's really tough facing that person in the mirror - it's far easier to blame somebody else for what happens.

Distraction? We've been doing it since the dawn of language, complex communication and rational thought.

This from the film Gladiator:
"Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted.
Take away their freedom and still they'll roar.
The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate,
it's the sand of the coliseum.
He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it."

How would we entertain ourselves if we didn't have 24hr TV, internet, gadgets, shopping, celebrity gossip, world news?

Dunno - what's on the box?

It's even better in High Definition for those with a player and telly to take advantage. Looks awesome in full resolution.

I'm sorry but IMO the Matrix films are the second most OVERRATED trilogy of movies EVER MADE, after the Lord of the Rings movies.


You are having a giraffe? It's one of the few sci-fi films made recently that makes you think.

"To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human"

The context of this is the vicarious/virtual worlds we spend so much time in ... watching others or creating fantasy worlds rather than experiencing the real world first hand for ourselves. (What can we really see, hear, smell, taste, touch, FEEL when we are watching TV or computer screens?)

Yes we should worry about being manipulated by spin-doctors, marketeers, governments, religious cults whatever - but it's our own willingness to give up our freedom to think that is astounding.

Why do we do it? Well there's something even more scary than having our freedom to think taken away and that is to use that freedom to think and in so doing accept responsibility for ourselves!

We give away our freedom to think so easily because we are frightened by our own consciousness and we will do anything to distract ourselves. It's really tough facing that person in the mirror - it's far easier to blame somebody else for what happens.

Distraction? We've been doing it since the dawn of language, complex communication and rational thought.

This from the film Gladiator:
"Rome is the mob. Conjure magic for them and they'll be distracted.
Take away their freedom and still they'll roar.
The beating heart of Rome is not the marble of the senate,
it's the sand of the coliseum.
He'll bring them death - and they will love him for it."

How would we entertain ourselves if we didn't have 24hr TV, internet, gadgets, shopping, celebrity gossip, world news?

Dunno - what's on the box?

a lot of people dont seem like responsibility, and in this country especially, we have allowed our government to legislate for responsibility: cycling on pavements for instance - in many countries it is allowed and people do so responsibly and courteously, however in this country it's illegal so people do it quickly to minimize the risk of being caught, but in doing so act far less responsibly or courteously.

at the mo, i dont have internet access at home, and i've not had a telly for about 6 years now. most of my entertainment is reading, music, talking and various kinds of exercise. but not necessarily in that order.

and on the point of responsibility, i dont believe that human rights legislation should apply to anyone who doesnt demonstrate the responsibility to uphold other peoples' rights

a lot of people dont seem like responsibility, and in this country especially, we have allowed our government to legislate for responsibility ...

yes, it would be better if people acted responsibly of their own accord. Not sure myself which is worse though, the nanny state or irresponsible individuals, on the other hand I do think that if you show trust, respect and responsibility that you're more likely to get it in return rather than if you try to win hearts and minds by force (?)

at the mo, i dont have internet access at home, and i've not had a telly for about 6 years now. most of my entertainment is reading, music, talking and various kinds of exercise. but not necessarily in that order.

There is some good stuff on TV, I know I miss some good entertainment, but the vast majority of what's on there is total garbage (however there's no harm in vegging out occasionally). Good on yer though for being able to get by without the "idiot box"

and on the point of responsibility, i dont believe that human rights legislation should apply to anyone who doesnt demonstrate the responsibility to uphold other peoples' rights

I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who abuse human rights but neither should we give up our own humanity in the face of inhumanity by others. Having said that, although I'm against the death penalty (I am one of those bleeding heart liberals), I wasn't sorry to see Saddam Hussein pay for his crimes. Maybe Mugabe should go the same way, but that's another topic entirely!

Going back on topic I normally hate films which are overstylised and use a lot of special effects but for me The Matrix cuts it at every level. but here's a confession ... I've only seen part 1 ... do Matrix fans think the sequels are as good??? (Can easily use my LoveFilm subscription to order them ...)