For a number of years I worked in the administration of Housing and Council Tax Benefit, during this time I came across various different ways of people trying to extract money from us in cases that stretched legislation to the limit.

I though I’d share five of my favourite examples with everyone and ask others for examples they have.

Not living in a property and claiming Benefit for it- This was a classic, the person claimed to be living in the property but we were aware that the property was screened, therefore in our opinion he couldn’t be living there. When interviewed he then preceded to explain to me how easy it is to get into screened properties, and that he was living there during the day.

Self Employed taxi drivers- I remember one person coming in for an interview, he was really proud of himself as he’d just got this job driving a taxi and he came in to tell me he’d be earning a £100 a week (long time ago). Unknown to him, we knew the firm and everyone else there earned £40 a week so after I concluded the interview I came back into our office and confidently predicted he’d be back in again in a few weeks telling us he wasn’t doing as well as expected and that he was only earning £40 a week. Sure enough, I was right.

Minimum wage- I remember interviewing a chap who worked in a pizza place who claimed to be only earning £1 an hour, it was just before the minimum wage came in so I remember advising him of this and that he’d have to tell us of the increase in his wages when it started. He then got difficult with me, telling me his employer wasn’t going to give him the minimum wage and that his wages would remain the same. He stopped his claim just after it came in.

Bingo winner spent £90k- I remember interviewing one young lass who won £90k at the Bingo, she came in and cancelled her claim as was correct, she then came back in around 6 months later to say that she wanted to claim again as she’d spent it all.

Child minders looking after each others kids- My recollection of this one is sketchy, it involved two child-minders who were friends and who claimed to look after the others children, they then claimed Tax Credit to make their income up.

In reality, the dodgy claims usually involve the following:

Living together as Husband and Wife
Spending Capital
Undeclared Capital
Not living in properties
Collusion with employers
Self-Employed
Non-Dependant children disappearing when they reached the age when they have to contribute to the household
Undeclared Income

Anyone got any good examples to share!!!

Some good tips there for the great unwashed! ;)

Just shows how bent some people are especially the work shy scroungers.

Self Employed taxi drivers- I remember one person coming in for an interview, he was really proud of himself as he’d just got this job driving a taxi and he came in to tell me he’d be earning a £100 a week (long time ago). Unknown to him, we knew the firm and everyone else there earned £40 a week so after I concluded the interview I came back into our office and confidently predicted he’d be back in again in a few weeks telling us he wasn’t doing as well as expected and that he was only earning £40 a week. Sure enough, I was right.




I dont understand how this could be seen as abuse of benefit system? If he was saying he was going to earn more but ended up earning less then he was surely losing out at first:confused::confused:

or am i missing something?

A family nearby were caught working and claiming practically every benefit going, they had a couple of BMWs, Plasma tellys in each room, a computer that would make Bill Gates drool and... well, they were living VERY nicely, hes a lorrry driver, shes got her own hair dressing and beauty business... they were caught about three months ago, snitched on by friends of theirs who were also ripping the benefits system off, they snitched to get an easier deal.

Imnot sure whatll happen to them but Im fascinated to see if they get away with a slapped wrist, theyve been ripping off the benefits system for about eight years.

A family nearby were caught working and claiming practically every benefit going, they had a couple of BMWs, Plasma tellys in each room, a computer that would make Bill Gates drool and... well, they were living VERY nicely, hes a lorrry driver, shes got her own hair dressing and beauty business... they were caught about three months ago, snitched on by friends of theirs who were also ripping the benefits system off, they snitched to get an easier deal.

Imnot sure whatll happen to them but Im fascinated to see if they get away with a slapped wrist, theyve been ripping off the benefits system for about eight years.


I dont know how people can do it! I would be so scared that i would be caught!!

How many of those scammers that get caught are bubbled by an upset partner after being dumped or cheated on?

I dont understand how this could be seen as abuse of benefit system? If he was saying he was going to earn more but ended up earning less then he was surely losing out at first:confused::confused:

or am i missing something?

I think the implication is that everyone working at the firm is 'on the fiddle' and that after a few weeks they'd obviously been told that "you can declare you're only working for £40 a week and claim benefits"

I dont know how people can do it! I would be so scared that i would be caught!!

Yeah me too. I know the family quite well and it scares me to think about it.

If I was in their position Id be a nervous wreck each time to doorbell rang, in fact, the woman was looking more ragged and edgy as the years went on and I often wondered why, I bet it was because of that.

I think the implication is that everyone working at the firm is 'on the fiddle' and that after a few weeks they'd obviously been told that "you can declare you're only working for £40 a week and claim benefits"

ahhh :D :D I couldnt get my head round it.. thanks :D:thumbsup:

So it was your office plonkers that went and cancled my bennefits by accident and took 3 weeks to sort it out. Maybe there should be a thread on how it effects people when they go and cock up and not seem to have a clue what there left hand is doing from there right. The system cant handle the call volumes and the telephonists havent a clue how to deal with problems. Atleast in the end I got compansation for the huge cock up even though it was just for the phone bill I used for sorting the mess out..

maybe we ought to just stop the benefits system completely.:thumbsup:

I dont understand how this could be seen as abuse of benefit system? If he was saying he was going to earn more but ended up earning less then he was surely losing out at first:confused::confused:

or am i missing something?

What I believe happened here was that the peson started work and in good faith thought he'd earn a certain amount of money, he may or may not have earned this figure, but very soon after he came in and told us that he was earning considerably less.

The figure he declared just happened to be consistent with that declared by other drivers and one which gave him maximum Housing and Council Tax Benefit. Incidentally, the firm (who for obvious reasons will not be named) are one of the most reputable in Sheffield, whether they are in collusion with the drivers is open to conjecture.

I must also emphasise that this was many years ago, detection of Fraud in this area has improved considerably since then, but I'll be the first to admit that we were hopeless in stopping this type of Fraud back then as we just couldn't prove anything.

A family nearby were caught working and claiming practically every benefit going, they had a couple of BMWs, Plasma tellys in each room, a computer that would make Bill Gates drool and... well, they were living VERY nicely, hes a lorrry driver, shes got her own hair dressing and beauty business... they were caught about three months ago, snitched on by friends of theirs who were also ripping the benefits system off, they snitched to get an easier deal.

Imnot sure whatll happen to them but Im fascinated to see if they get away with a slapped wrist, theyve been ripping off the benefits system for about eight years.

Out of curiousity did you have any idea what they were doing and what Benefit they were claiming.

My guess would be:


They claimed to be living apart
She claimed Tax Credit on her Self Employed earnings and submitted records indicating minimal income from it

So it was your office plonkers that went and cancled my bennefits by accident and took 3 weeks to sort it out. Maybe there should be a thread on how it effects people when they go and cock up and not seem to have a clue what there left hand is doing from there right. The system cant handle the call volumes and the telephonists havent a clue how to deal with problems. Atleast in the end I got compansation for the huge cock up even though it was just for the phone bill I used for sorting the mess out..

It certainly wasn't me!!

I'm glad you got the compensation, but why did they cancel your claim?

It certainly wasn't me!!

I'm glad you got the compensation, but why did they cancel your claim?

Some numpty made a mistake and hit the wrong buttom apparently, well thats what I got told. When I rang up first they didnt even know why it was suspended which eventually made sence as it was a mistake.

So it was your office plonkers that went and cancled my bennefits by accident and took 3 weeks to sort it out. Maybe there should be a thread on how it effects people when they go and cock up and not seem to have a clue what there left hand is doing from there right. The system cant handle the call volumes and the telephonists havent a clue how to deal with problems. Atleast in the end I got compansation for the huge cock up even though it was just for the phone bill I used for sorting the mess out..

It took the benefits folk from April to October to sort my change of address claim over, when I moved here.

It took the benefits folk from April to October to sort my change of address claim over, when I moved here.

Its like anything if a company owes you money or has made a mistake they take for ever sorting it out, but if its other way round they are there banging your house down demanding payment or looking to take things off you.

Out of curiousity did you have any idea what they were doing and what Benefit they were claiming.

My guess would be:


They claimed to be living apart
She claimed Tax Credit on her Self Employed earnings and submitted records indicating minimal income from it


Im not sure exactly but I think that living apart was one of the things they did, they were also working and she was claiming a ... an injury thing... said she had a bad back? Was getting money for that as well as the income support thing...
They also didnt pay rent for about eight years and claimed other benefits too, they have a couple of kids so they must have claimed for them as well.

Yeah I vaguely remember tax credits being mentioned too.

Im not sure exactly but I think that living apart was one of the things they did, they were also working and she was claiming a ... an injury thing... said she had a bad back? Was getting money for that as well as the income support thing...
They also didnt pay rent for about eight years and claimed other benefits too, they have a couple of kids so they must have claimed for them as well.

Yeah I vaguely remember tax credits being mentioned too.

Oops they are up to their neck in it big time, I hope they chuck the book at them!!!

Its like anything if a company owes you money or has made a mistake they take for ever sorting it out, but if its other way round they are there banging your house down demanding payment or looking to take things off you.

That's a very relevant point, the Inland Revenue owe me some money for which I sent the information in around 6 weeks ago!

Three weeks, pfft. It took the DWP about two and a half years to sort out the money they owed me, the first time they screwed up my claim.

The second time, it took about eighteen months.

The third time, we knew what to do, and after two weeks we said we wanted to make a complaint to the independent adjudicator. Two days later I got my money back.

So it was your office plonkers that went and cancled my bennefits by accident and took 3 weeks to sort it out. Maybe there should be a thread on how it effects people when they go and cock up and not seem to have a clue what there left hand is doing from there right. The system cant handle the call volumes and the telephonists havent a clue how to deal with problems. Atleast in the end I got compansation for the huge cock up even though it was just for the phone bill I used for sorting the mess out..

No point Daz, all it would bring out is clueless trolls who read a certain newspaper and thus hate everyone who claims a penny off "The State"

Walking through Hilsborough behind two women, one had arm in a sling. Bit puzzled when I saw one of them croch down it the "toilet position."

As I walked past I saw the women crouching down had a tape measure in her hand next to a paving slab, and overheard her say "it's no good, the solicitor said it needed to be at least and inch and a half."

It didn't quite sink in what they were doing for a few mins.

.

Oops they are up to their neck in it big time, I hope they chuck the book at them!!!

But will they chuck the book at them? I heared that if you owed over a certain amount they just forget it.

They must owe thousands after all that time.

But will they chuck the book at them? I heared that if you owed over a certain amount they just forget it.

They must owe thousands after all that time.

Certainly in Housing Benefits they will be chased for the Overpayment, not sure about the others though!

the goverment also forgets to tell people that they are entitiled to certain benefits aswell. I think more money goes unclaimed than gets defrauded but no one mentions that too often do they?

Plus if your on long term bennefits and you get a partner they take away or reduce your bennefits if your partner is working. Surely this is wrong and it shouldnt matter if your with someone or not.

Bring back the work houses.

the goverment also forgets to tell people that they are entitiled to certain benefits aswell. I think more money goes unclaimed than gets defrauded but no one mentions that too often do they?

Very true!!!!

There's many a person in Sheffield better off as a consequence of the work done by staff in these departments, but unfortunately a lot get missed, especially Pensioners.

Yes I could name a family that are better off,working and claiming and do it under evryones nose and openly brag about it,the benefits system does nothing to these kind of people.
Solution is simple,if caught stop everything and give them nothing ever again.

Sadly there are too many work shy scrubbers around that take money that could be given to people that actualy deserve it.
The benefits agency knows this goes on and despite their riduclous adds on the television actualy do very little to combat it.

Time to stop pussy footing around and get tough on them.

Yes I could name a family that are better off,working and claiming and do it under evryones nose and openly brag about it,the benefits system does nothing to these kind of people.
Solution is simple,if caught stop everything and give them nothing ever again.

Sadly there are too many work shy scrubbers around that take money that could be given to people that actualy deserve it.
The benefits agency knows this goes on and despite their riduclous adds on the television actualy do very little to combat it.

Time to stop pussy footing around and get tough on them.

Report them and start the investigation rolling.

Any ideas on what you think the Fraud is, looks like claiming they are seperated when they aren't.

Report them and start the investigation rolling.

Any ideas on what you think the Fraud is, looks like claiming they are seperated when they aren't.

I dont have to,virtualy every other family in the area has reported them over a period of 12 months,needless to say it still goes on.

Claiming while seperated is the tip of the Iceberg,add tax evation and various other illegal activites.

We are entering times where the decent folk among us have to accept this kind of behaviour as to be honest its to far out of control for any agency to do anything about it.

Look around you,and the picture you see is the picture of our future,,,not nice is it?.

Some good tips there for the great unwashed! ;)

thats a brilliant game, thanks for the link satman.

Plus if your on long term bennefits and you get a partner they take away or reduce your bennefits if your partner is working. Surely this is wrong and it shouldnt matter if your with someone or not.

It does mean that sometimes you're financially better off staying single, which is a perverse outcome .. but then, suppose someone on long-term income support marries a billionaire? What possible grounds could there be for allowing that claim to continue?

The loss of my personal benefits has been a contributing factor in the reason I'm single. The loss of personal independence terrifies me! It's not the only reason I'm single but has been a contributing factor in not taking a relationship further until I can support myself financially without the benefits system or the financial support of a partner.

I've known of several people who've worked whilst claiming, if I could find work which fitted around my children and supported us I'd be screaming it from the hilltops that I don't need state funding anymore!

Most of my experiences of the income support and housing benefits system has involved them breaching data protection by giving my 'new' name and address to a violent ex partner a week after moving me into a 'safe' property(!), stopping my benefits for no reason (a mistake as above) forcing us to get a loan to live while they corrected their error and many more incidences of bad management and poor service.

Now I don't really feel I should complain (although I have), because I don't support myself, tax payers do, but on the same note; I paid extortionate amounts of tax when I was working for many years. I expected the tax I paid to help those unable to find work and for the public services we all use. These systems are badly managed and inefficient, if they were private companies some of the mistakes they have made (breaches of data protection etc) would have caused them to be investigated by the DTI!

Plus if your on long term bennefits and you get a partner they take away or reduce your bennefits if your partner is working. Surely this is wrong and it shouldnt matter if your with someone or not.

Only if you're deemed to be living together. If you have a partner and you're not living together, then nothing will happen.

The loss of my personal benefits has been a contributing factor in the reason I'm single. The loss of personal independence terrifies me! It's not the only reason I'm single but has been a contributing factor in not taking a relationship further until I can support myself financially without the benefits system or the financial support of a partner.

I've known of several people who've worked whilst claiming, if I could find work which fitted around my children and supported us I'd be screaming it from the hilltops that I don't need state funding anymore!

Most of my experiences of the income support and housing benefits system has involved them breaching data protection by giving my 'new' name and address to a violent ex partner a week after moving me into a 'safe' property(!), stopping my benefits for no reason (a mistake as above) forcing us to get a loan to live while they corrected their error and many more incidences of bad management and poor service.

Now I don't really feel I should complain (although I have), because I don't support myself, tax payers do, but on the same note; I paid extortionate amounts of tax when I was working for many years. I expected the tax I paid to help those unable to find work and for the public services we all use. These systems are badly managed and inefficient, if they were private companies some of the mistakes they have made (breaches of data protection etc) would have caused them to be investigated by the DTI!

Housing Benefit has been privately run (under the Council's wing) for about a decade.

I dont understand how this could be seen as abuse of benefit system? If he was saying he was going to earn more but ended up earning less then he was surely losing out at first:confused::confused:

or am i missing something?

Indeed.

....and since the OP knew this beforehand as stated then the OP deliberately did the guy out of benefit they knew he was entitled too.

Not very nice and a good judge of character me thinks.

Housing Benefit has been privately run (under the Council's wing) for about a decade.

Yes your right I know that I did 'lump' them together a bit then. That's one of the ways fraudsters can take advantage of the system as the housing benefits agency and income support/job seekers people don't communicate with each other.

The people who process housing benefit are totally incompetent, in my experience. I'm surprised anyone ever manages to defraud them as they take months to process a simple claim, checking and rechecking facts which have already been confirmed by the DWP, but they don't like talkng to them, it seems, even though they have all the concrete info on a claimant's benefits. It is not surprising that so many people make mistakes in their claims when every change in circumstances leads to a dozen letters through the door all asking for the same information they have already been given.

I am due to inform them of a very simple change in circumstances, one which doesn't even affect my income and the benefit to which I an entitled to, but they need to update their records, because, ofcourse we're all fraudsters and terrorists. I fully expect to have my claim suspended for months, whilst they painstakingly read through every bit of paper which I will have to take down for them to photocopy, last time this took nine visits with the same pieces of paper, the last one being a letter from my local councillor who made them process the claim immediately without further unecessary delays.

So before any of them start about anyone else defrauding them they should get their own house in order.

Only if you're deemed to be living together. If you have a partner and you're not living together, then nothing will happen.

Thats exactly my point why should it matter if your living together, if you have a genuine disability why should that person have there bennefits took of them when it has nothing to do with your partner. Thats basically saying oh you cant have a long term partner and if you do we will punish you for it.

Thats exactly my point why should it matter if your living together, if you have a genuine disability why should that person have there bennefits took of them when it has nothing to do with your partner.


Incapacity benefit, disability living allowance and their relatives do NOT depend on your overall income, or whether or not you have a partner. You'd still get them.

Income support, which is designed solely to provide money to those who don't have enough, will cease if you move in with someone earning enough to support you.

Incapacity benefit, disability living allowance and their relatives do NOT depend on your overall income, or whether or not you have a partner. You'd still get them.

Income support, which is designed solely to provide money to those who don't have enough, will cease if you move in with someone earning enough to support you.

That is not correct I have a friend who was on it they moved in with him and was part time and he had his taken away. I dont see why it matters and still think its wrong, Im not great at putting accross an arguement others maybe able to do it better. I just dont think its right to be punished simply cos your living a life and finding someone you love IMO.

Thats exactly my point why should it matter if your living together, if you have a genuine disability why should that person have there bennefits took of them when it has nothing to do with your partner. Thats basically saying oh you cant have a long term partner and if you do we will punish you for it.

When did disability come into it? If it's an income-based benefit, then someone else's income is taken into account.

An 'able' single mother is in the same position, if she is claiming an income-based benefit, and many others too.

When did disability come into it? If it's an income-based benefit, then someone else's income is taken into account.

An 'able' single mother is in the same position, if she is claiming an income-based benefit, and many others too.

Im talking about from a disabilty view.

That is not correct I have a friend who was on it they moved in with him and was part time and he had his taken away. I dont see why it matters and still think its wrong, Im not great at putting accross an arguement others maybe able to do it better. I just dont think its right to be punished simply cos your living a life and finding someone you love IMO.

He is right actually. The thing is that for some benefits, income doesn't matter, but for others (Income Support and Income Based Jobseeker's Allowance), if someone moves in with you, and you have (between you) a lot more than 'the law says you need to live on', is it right for a claim to still exist?

Im talking about from a disabilty view.

If it's still an income based benefit, then the same applies.

He is right actually. The thing is that for some benefits, income doesn't matter, but for others (Income Support and Income Based Jobseeker's Allowance), if someone moves in with you, and you have (between you) a lot more than 'the law says you need to live on', is it right for a claim to still exist?

Thankyou someone backing me up at last I thought I was talking rubbish for a minuite then lol.

If it's still an income based benefit, then the same applies.

which IMO is wrong but no point argueing over it cos nothings going to change.

Thankyou someone backing me up at last I thought I was talking rubbish for a minuite then lol.

He's backing ME up, not you. ;)

at one time i worked ror the c a b ,a lot if not most of my clients came into the office to discuss there claim for benefits that had been stopped for one reason or another,some were genuine but quite a few were fraudsters

one couple asked me to fill in housing benefit forms for him,he was living with the woman but was claiming to be a lodger

another had her benefit stopped for no reason at all,or so she said,i rang the dhss and they put me through to a man who was the case investigator,i was told i could not know his name but was to call him mr x

he told me he had visited her house on several occasions but she was never in,he often checked her bin and it was always empty,he called at her ex husbands house early one morning and she was there,in her nightie, i told her what the investigator had said and she just replied " oh well,it was worth a try"

another old man lived opposite the c a b,i would often see him call in the bookies,then he would call in to see me,saying he had lost his money,i phoned the dhss and they sorted him out,a fortnight later he tried it again,and once again,they sorted him out, the third time i told him they would get wise to him,he just laughed and asked me to ring them, they made an appointment for him that morning,he came in to see me with a voucher for basic foodstuff from the co-op,they finally sussed him out

ive had others come in to claim for furniture etc and then they went and bought a car with the giro,i know they did,as the man from the car pitch came in and asked me if he could accept the giro as legal tender and the claimant was stood with him

it takes all sorts,but there were some genuine cases of hardship,one old lady asked me to get onto the council to repair her back door,she had been told the council would attend on tuesday ,the fact was,the letter she had was over 20 years old,she had been waiting in every tuesday for all those years and no one ever turned up.......

another man wanted to sue the hospital,they had,he said stolen his idea of curing a bad lung,his idea was to put privett into the lung,kill off everything and then take out the privett when the cancer was gone, he was deadly serious.........

at one time i worked ror the c a b ,a lot if not most of my clients came into the office to discuss there claim for benefits that had been stopped for one reason or another,some were genuine but quite a few were fraudsters

And it will always be so.

one couple asked me to fill in housing benefit forms for him,he was living with the woman but was claiming to be a lodger

A very old one, and must be going back 25 years at least, if they got away with it. It probably did happen at one time though.

another had her benefit stopped for no reason at all,or so she said,i rang the dhss and they put me through to a man who was the case investigator,i was told i could not know his name but was to call him mr x

Rubbish. At no time ever would a member of the public be put through to a a fraud investigator.

he told me he had visited her house on several occasions but she was never in,he often checked her bin and it was always empty,he called at her ex husbands house early one morning and she was there,in her nightie, i told her what the investigator had said and she just replied " oh well,it was worth a try"

Depoix, you've tried umpteen times to 'prove' various things about disability benefits, such as the oft told 'they get a drinking allowance' one. Had you ever worked in a CAB you'd know much better, and to try and peddle these lies (for lies, or 'urban myths' they are) is a disgrace.

AGAIN, at no time EVER would a member of the public speak directly to a fraud investigator.

EVER.

another old man lived opposite the c a b,i would often see him call in the bookies,then he would call in to see me,saying he had lost his money,i phoned the dhss and they sorted him out,a fortnight later he tried it again,and once again,they sorted him out, the third time i told him they would get wise to him,he just laughed and asked me to ring them, they made an appointment for him that morning,he came in to see me with a voucher for basic foodstuff from the co-op,they finally sussed him out

So if you were a genuine CAB worker, you'd have have told him what to do, and not to come back, unless via a Gamblers Anonymous worker.

ive had others come in to claim for furniture etc and then they went and bought a car with the giro,i know they did,as the man from the car pitch came in and asked me if he could accept the giro as legal tender and the claimant was stood with him

Cobblers. There have been many payments granted for the 'wrong' reasons, but if you think anyone's going to believe that a car dealer would ask about the legal status of a giro, you must think there's been a hell of a shower that you think I've just come down in.

Many may use the grants/loans for reasons other than what they specify when making the claim, but not even the most bent dealer would walk into a CAB asking what to do with a giro.

I used to do some direct advice work but mainly specialized in tribunals, for those in the know I had my own 's manuals'.

I've dealt with many cases where the 'rabbit' section was involved and have talked to them but I was very well known at the time, and although I've represented at probably well over a thousand tribunals from 77 to 92 I don't think I've talked to them more than half a dozen times although I would talk with managers and assistant managers at least daily.

As an aside the only CAB in Sheffield to have a bookmakers 'across the road' would be Spittle Hill.

The one benefits fraud I know is a woman living in America and having her benefits paid into her bank here, DD paying the rent for her reduced cuncil flat and her council tax.
As her Visa for America is for 3 mths she comes home to her flat and her stache of money for a week or so and goes back.
While she is away I hear her son uses the flat rent free.
She has never worked in England so has contributed nothing and lived abroad since being 8, but as there is no dole in the country she came from, she came here.
hazel

Indeed.

....and since the OP knew this beforehand as stated then the OP deliberately did the guy out of benefit they knew he was entitled too.

Not very nice and a good judge of character me thinks.

Oh dear, someone bearing a grudge from another thread me thinks!

You don't have to start with the personal attacks, all you need to do is answer the question that I've asked you four times on the thread that you claim to be giving us all a hammering on.

For the record, the person in question got his claim amended to the income he stated.

I will also mention that hundreds of people in Sheffield have benefitted financially, from advice I've given them. But then that's the difference between us, I want to get the poor out of poverty and you want to keep them in it.

Very odd values for someone claiming to be a Socialist I have to say.

The people who process housing benefit are totally incompetent, in my experience. I'm surprised anyone ever manages to defraud them as they take months to process a simple claim, checking and rechecking facts which have already been confirmed by the DWP, but they don't like talkng to them, it seems, even though they have all the concrete info on a claimant's benefits. It is not surprising that so many people make mistakes in their claims when every change in circumstances leads to a dozen letters through the door all asking for the same information they have already been given.
<snipped>
So before any of them start about anyone else defrauding them they should get their own house in order.

I'd say the fraud is not necessarily on the part of the likes of you and I, Joe/ Josephine Public who make our legitimate claims for housing benefit, but on the part of landlords who allow tenants to use their properties as what was called a "Giro-Drop", and Landlords who make fraudulent claims for tenants with multiple identities.

And it will always be so.



A very old one, and must be going back 25 years at least, if they got away with it. It probably did happen at one time though.



Rubbish. At no time ever would a member of the public be put through to a a fraud investigator.



Depoix, you've tried umpteen times to 'prove' various things about disability benefits, such as the oft told 'they get a drinking allowance' one. Had you ever worked in a CAB you'd know much better, and to try and peddle these lies (for lies, or 'urban myths' they are) is a disgrace.

AGAIN, at no time EVER would a member of the public speak directly to a fraud investigator.

EVER.



So if you were a genuine CAB worker, you'd have have told him what to do, and not to come back, unless via a Gamblers Anonymous worker.



Cobblers. There have been many payments granted for the 'wrong' reasons, but if you think anyone's going to believe that a car dealer would ask about the legal status of a giro, you must think there's been a hell of a shower that you think I've just come down in.

Many may use the grants/loans for reasons other than what they specify when making the claim, but not even the most bent dealer would walk into a CAB asking what to do with a giro.please, dont use your position as a mod to call me a liar, i know what happened happened, but of course you know all the workings of the c a b dont you, there are log books kept at c a b offices that require the advisor to write down what he did for each client,the entry will still be in that log, you seem to think that you are always correct for some reason,maybe just pure arrogance on your part or just ignorance which ever it is,you are wrong and the incidents and many more like them actually occured

i did speak to a mr x,the one investigating the case, and for what you know about car dealers well i suggest you do a little investigating of your own before calling people liars, obviously the car lot has gone after so many years but i can tell you it did happen, the responce from dhss pitsmoor was, " the holder of the giro cheque can spend it on what he likes,but will not receive another one as the giro has already been issued for the claim " now you just try to get your self egotistical head out of the door a little more and learn about life and people, and do try to stop being so bloody ignorant and such an attention seeker pleeeeeeeease :loopy:

I used to do some direct advice work but mainly specialized in tribunals, for those in the know I had my own 's manuals'.

I've dealt with many cases where the 'rabbit' section was involved and have talked to them but I was very well known at the time, and although I've represented at probably well over a thousand tribunals from 77 to 92 I don't think I've talked to them more than half a dozen times although I would talk with managers and assistant managers at least daily.

As an aside the only CAB in Sheffield to have a bookmakers 'across the road' would be Spittle Hill.the very same.....but you didnt work at that one in 88 -90 as there were only three male advisors,myself,tony and christian, and also sheffields very own jan wilson worked there in the debt advisory section,small world isnt it ?

Happyhippy, please, dont use your position as a mod to call me a liar.

Depoix,

That comment was both unjust and unfair.

Happyhippy was not 'using his position as a Moderator' at all. He was simply expressing his thoughts and opinions on your comments - which he, and other members of the Admin, Moderating and Assistant Moderating team are freely allowed to do.

I have to say that if you worked for CAB, then I'm sure you'll be familiar with their confidentiality policy. Anonymised or not, discussing client issues on open forum isn't really acceptable, and not something current Bureaux would be happy about.

And yes, I'm familiar with CAB procedures. Intimately.

Depoix,

That comment was both unjust and unfair.

Happyhippy was not 'using his position as a Moderator' at all. He was simply expressing his thoughts and opinions on your comments - which he, and other members of the Admin, Moderating and Assistant Moderating team are freely allowed to do.



To quote happyhippy that's "cobblers", what's good for the goose eh?

Anyone with half a brain can see he's calling Depoix a liar, I know who I prefer to believe and that's the one without the vested interest.

Depoix,

That comment was both unjust and unfair.

Happyhippy was not 'using his position as a Moderator' at all. He was simply expressing his thoughts and opinions on your comments - which he, and other members of the Admin, Moderating and Assistant Moderating team are freely allowed to do.

I have to say that if you worked for CAB, then I'm sure you'll be familiar with their confidentiality policy. Anonymised or not, discussing client issues on open forum isn't really acceptable, and not something current Bureaux would be happy about.

And yes, I'm familiar with CAB procedures. Intimately. as no names were mentioned then your objection is null and void,as for the happy hippy,i have crossed swords with him before and i stand by what i posted,he tries to dominate most posts that he replies to as if he is the only one who can ever be right,pure unadulterated arrogance on his part,thats my personal opinion ,but im sure there are other posters on here who may agree with me

maybe we ought to just stop the benefits system completely.:thumbsup:

Yes I agree why should us hard working tax payers subsidise these work shy scroungers? As soon as someone looses there job they should be evicted from their home and forced to fend for themselves on the streets. The children could work in sweatshops whilst the parent turn to petty crime and prostitution to survive. They could live on the city's parks, in shanty towns made if old pallets and plastic sheeting, just like they do in the third world.

And don't forget the poorly paid workers who only get by on tax credits...why should we subsidise them? It would be better to force them into work camps. They could be rounded up at night by troops and transported in cattle trucks out to the country...

Wouldn't that be a future to be proud of?

The one benefits fraud I know is a woman living in America and having her benefits paid into her bank here, DD paying the rent for her reduced cuncil flat and her council tax.
As her Visa for America is for 3 mths she comes home to her flat and her stache of money for a week or so and goes back.
While she is away I hear her son uses the flat rent free.
She has never worked in England so has contributed nothing and lived abroad since being 8, but as there is no dole in the country she came from, she came here.
hazel
Hazel under US immigration she would need to be out of the country for at least 3 months after her 3 months in the states. Therefore I doubt this story on that basis alone. If she's managing it then the US immigration department are not doing there job very well (and from my experience of them, they're very good at their job).

Slightly off topic and I apologise, but Im curious...

How long would it take to bring someone to court after they had been nabbed fiddling the system?

The people I mentioned were watched for almost a year, had all their BMWs and 4X4s and their taxi photographed, were followed to and from work, were finally brought to book in March and they still seem to be happily going through life as if nothing happened.

They just got back from a two week holiday in the south of France, thanks to the lovely, generous tax payer.


How long does it take roughly from being nabbed to being... punished.....?

please, dont use your position as a mod to call me a liar


Would you prefer that a non-moderator, such as me, called you a liar? Since, after all, that is quite blatantly what you are.

Would you prefer that a non-moderator, such as me, called you a liar? Since, after all, that is quite blatantly what you are.would you say that in person,if your not hiding behind the keyboard i wonder ?

would you say that in person,if your not hiding behind the keyboard i wonder ?

If you spout lies in public, yes, I'll call you a liar in public. Why wouldn't I?

Would you prefer that a non-moderator, such as me, called you a liar? Since, after all, that is quite blatantly what you are.

Perhaps you could explain why you think depoix is lying, I see no such evidence so far.

Hazel under US immigration she would need to be out of the country for at least 3 months after her 3 months in the states. Therefore I doubt this story on that basis alone. If she's managing it then the US immigration department are not doing there job very well (and from my experience of them, they're very good at their job).
Hi McLovin
Not sure about the 3 mths here but know she was 3 months in America off and on for something like 2 years or more and heard she was alleged to have more than one passport. Have heard by the grapevine that she was arrested at the airport when landing in England with one of the charges being illegal use of Passports.
hazel

The people who process housing benefit are totally incompetent, in my experience. I'm surprised anyone ever manages to defraud them as they take months to process a simple claim, checking and rechecking facts which have already been confirmed by the DWP, but they don't like talkng to them, it seems, even though they have all the concrete info on a claimant's benefits. It is not surprising that so many people make mistakes in their claims when every change in circumstances leads to a dozen letters through the door all asking for the same information they have already been given.



I'm afraid the reality is that in many cases the problem is caused by the fact that information is shared between the DWP/Pension Service and the Local Authority.

The Government implemented well intentioned changes that in theory mean't that Claimants should only need to provide the information to one body, unfortunately what happened was that in a lot of cases the information being provided by one party was different to that held by the other.

A couple of examples for you:

A customer claims to the DWP he/she lives alone and they have no information to doubt this, the Local Authority then sees two people are named on the tenancy agreement and the fun begins.

A Pensioner tells the Pension Service they only have one Private Pension but a historic Benefit claim shows they have two.

So basically what was in principle a very good idea, has actually mean't that both aprties have access to more information, which in turn leads to more discrepancies and the inevitable investigation into these.

The people who process housing benefit are totally incompetent, in my experience.

Mine too, I got the result from a claim I made 6 months ago (I'm sure it's only as a result of me phoning up every week for the last 3 months) I'm not entitled to it because my excess weekly income is £441.67 per week.

I don't even earn this in a week, let alone have it as excess. So now the letter has been written and I'll no doubt spend the next 6 months phoning up on a twice weekly basis. How ridiculous.

the very same.....but you didnt work at that one in 88 -90 as there were only three male advisors,myself,tony and christian, and also sheffields very own jan wilson worked there in the debt advisory section,small world isnt it ?

I didn't work at any CAB depoix but did do tribunals for all except one (woodseats, twonks) when they needed a 'heavy hitter', and also training courses from time to time.

I've presented in such far flung places as Mansfield and Market Harbrough of all places and was usually brought in by a local solicitor rather than a CAB itself as I was working for the TUC.

Now there's another little snippet for the intolerant left to chew on, some of us around here actually have a history of helping people rather than just spouting off about it, LOL.

PS, when JW was at spittle hill I though she was an idiot then as well, Jake Pesscott on the other hand was a very different kettle of fish.

Hazel under US immigration she would need to be out of the country for at least 3 months after her 3 months in the states. Therefore I doubt this story on that basis alone. If she's managing it then the US immigration department are not doing there job very well (and from my experience of them, they're very good at their job).

The story is bull there can be little doubt of that, immigration here won't let you enter the country on the Visa waiver scheme these days more than twice in two years, its just impossible.

Hi McLovin
Not sure about the 3 mths here but know she was 3 months in America off and on for something like 2 years or more and heard she was alleged to have more than one passport. Have heard by the grapevine that she was arrested at the airport when landing in England with one of the charges being illegal use of Passports.
hazel

Biometric passports make that imposible when entering the USA.

Mine too, I got the result from a claim I made 6 months ago (I'm sure it's only as a result of me phoning up every week for the last 3 months) I'm not entitled to it because my excess weekly income is £441.67 per week.

I don't even earn this in a week, let alone have it as excess. So now the letter has been written and I'll no doubt spend the next 6 months phoning up on a twice weekly basis. How ridiculous.

That's appalling administration, you should be submitting a complaint and asking for compensation concerning this, as well as Appealing against the decision.

I would imagine it's a bit of a sensitive time in this Department at the moment, a decision on who wins the 5-year contract is due within the next couple of months and the Lib Dems have to decide whether or not to stick with the company who have performed so poorly over the last few years or to award it to their competitor.

That's appalling administration, you should be submitting a complaint and asking for compensation concerning this, as well as Appealing against the decision.

I would imagine it's a bit of a sensitive time in this Department at the moment, a decision on who wins the 5-year contract is due within the next couple of months and the Lib Dems have to decide whether or not to stick with the company who have performed so poorly over the last few years or to award it to their competitor.

What the heck are you talking about - that's par for the course and if you shove in a complaint all they do is a flaming damage limitation exercise and destroy the evidence.

And the change of contracts to another competitor wont make the blindest bit of difference.

What the heck are you talking about - that's par for the course and if you shove in a complaint all they do is a flaming damage limitation exercise and destroy the evidence.

And the change of contracts to another competitor wont make the blindest bit of difference.

You obviously have a bitter experience with them, would you care to share that with everyone.

Regarding your points made, my observations would be:

Time taken to process work appears to have improved recently, if your claim relates to a year or so ago then I would agree with you

THe Document Image System makes it very difficult to lose things

The fact that the persons assessment is wrong is not that unusual and I would agree with you on this point

With reference to your point about changing contracts, I have no idea about whether the competitor performs better or worse than the existing one, what I can say is that in the authority I left after leaving this one, we performed signifcantly better than Sheffield has and is doing, so it is possible to speed things up and to get the claims right.

What the heck are you talking about - that's par for the course and if you shove in a complaint all they do is a flaming damage limitation exercise and destroy the evidence.

And the change of contracts to another competitor wont make the blindest bit of difference.


Long will it continue whilst private companies operate in secret behind close doors with no accountability to the public who pay them and also while so many benefit processing companies are also responsible for administrating the bailiffs, a win win situation for them a hopeless situation for the poor people who rely on these payments.

Biometric passports make that imposible when entering the USA.

Haven't bometric passports only been issued for 2 yrs and isn't a passport given for 10 yrs.
So is there 8 yrs catching up to do on passports.

And can a woman have passports in all her married names.

Before I am shot down in flames I know that she went back to america more that twice in fact quite a few times, so how can it be impossible.
hazel

Haven't bometric passports only been issued for 2 yrs and isn't a passport given for 10 yrs.
So is there 8 yrs catching up to do on passports.

And can a woman have passports in all her married names.

Before I am shot down in flames I know that she went back to america more that twice in fact quite a few times, so how can it be impossible.
hazel

No you don't know where she went, all you know is where she said she went.

Biometrics are part of the admissions process, they have you in the INS data file no matter what passport you try to get in on you will show up straight away.

Plus the USA hasn't allowed anyone in on a none biometric for about four years now I believe.

No you don't know where she went, all you know is where she said she went.

Biometrics are part of the admissions process, they have you in the INS data file no matter what passport you try to get in on you will show up straight away.

Plus the USA hasn't allowed anyone in on a none biometric for about four years now I believe.

Sorry but Yes,
I do know where she went --not just where she said she was-- She went to Galveston, Houston Texas.
Whether her Passport was new I do not know but I know she went and went back more than twice.
I had daily phone calls from my brother about it.
hazel

The biggest abusers of the benefit system are the government. Allowing a situation where people are plunged into debt, some of them losing their family home, due to the sheer incompetence of their agencies is proof to that. Never mind, as long as they get their expenses claims returned quickly, with no questions asked, eh? ;)

Sorry but Yes,
I do know where she went --not just where she said she was-- She went to Galveston, Houston Texas.
Whether her Passport was new I do not know but I know she went and went back more than twice.
I had daily phone calls from my brother about it.
hazel

Well I don't know how she managed it, I have a hell of a time getting in and out, I'm married to a native citizen, a member of a tribe here (which gives me citizenship), one parent born here, and still I get the third degree because I kept my British Passport.

please, dont use your position as a mod to call me a liar, i know what happened happened, but of course you know all the workings of the c a b dont you,

Well seeing as I started my advice working career in an advice centre, then, yes, I do know what happens!

I will apologise for some heavy language, but I stand by what I said, and rather than bicker on here, I'd gladly have a few pints with you over it.

And remember, I might be an assistant mod, but as with everyone else, I'm still subject to a big, bad banning stick.

To quote happyhippy that's "cobblers", what's good for the goose eh?

Anyone with half a brain can see he's calling Depoix a liar, I know who I prefer to believe and that's the one without the vested interest.

None of us has a vested interest, all of which is by the by anyway really, but again, I'll stand by what I say.

Slightly off topic and I apologise, but Im curious...

How long would it take to bring someone to court after they had been nabbed fiddling the system?

The people I mentioned were watched for almost a year, had all their BMWs and 4X4s and their taxi photographed, were followed to and from work, were finally brought to book in March and they still seem to be happily going through life as if nothing happened.

They just got back from a two week holiday in the south of France, thanks to the lovely, generous tax payer.


How long does it take roughly from being nabbed to being... punished.....?

Depends really Jabbers. There are so many ways that people can defraud the system that you can't put a finger on a rough timescale. Some can be sorted within a matter of weeks, some can take months. Another thing to consider is that if they hold their hands up, and avoid prosecution (often due to the amount it would cost to prosecute), they pay the cash back plus a bit over a period of time.

It may seem that they're getting away with it, but their wallets will be hurting. Again though, some people's wallets aren't hurt by the subsequent actions of the Department.

Just asking... why would anyone thats employed to work for a Benefits system want to sort out the abusers ? wouldn't they be out of a job as it would cut down on their paper work ect ?

I didn't work at any CAB depoix but did do tribunals for all except one (woodseats, twonks) when they needed a 'heavy hitter', and also training courses from time to time.

I've presented in such far flung places as Mansfield and Market Harbrough of all places and was usually brought in by a local solicitor rather than a CAB itself as I was working for the TUC.

Now there's another little snippet for the intolerant left to chew on, some of us around here actually have a history of helping people rather than just spouting off about it, LOL.

PS, when JW was at spittle hill I though she was an idiot then as well, Jake Pesscott on the other hand was a very different kettle of fish.

I've represented through Notts, Derbys and Yorkshire (though not as far as Market Harborough, obviously!), and seen some amazing bureaucratic cock-ups, as well as some of the most trivial appeals ever.

Just asking... why would anyone thats employed to work for a Benefits system want to sort out the abusers ? wouldn't they be out of a job as it would cut down on their paper work ect ?

Indeed, which would mean that more help could be given to the genuinely needy, and those who want work.

Well seeing as I started my advice working career in an advice centre, then, yes, I do know what happens!

I will apologise for some heavy language, but I stand by what I said, and rather than bicker on here, I'd gladly have a few pints with you over it.

And remember, I might be an assistant mod, but as with everyone else, I'm still subject to a big, bad banning stick.im in the white rails ,upperthorpe most sundays around 3 pm,and i also stand by what i posted,as for the banning stick, you are joking are'nt you ? theres a clique on here that has been discussed before,and people were banned for telling their own opininions,check the archives....

im in the white rails ,upperthorpe most sundays around 3 pm,and i also stand by what i posted,as for the banning stick, you are joking are'nt you ? theres a clique on here that has been discussed before,and people were banned for telling their own opininions,check the archives....

Christ(TM)! Not been in there for years! Thought it had shut down to be honest! Used to go in there after a couple of early ones on a Sunday in the Philadelphia years ago when I was in my early 20's.

I can't check the archives, cos I'm not a prefect, but I'll gladly have a few beers with you, and a stand up row if needs be! Anyway, let's sort that bit out by PM, rather than get told off for chatting ...... :D

why not just apologise for calling me a liar,then meet on an equal footing ? that way we can both enjoy a pint

why not just apologise for calling me a liar,then meet on an equal footing ? that way we can both enjoy a pint

We both stood, and stand, by what we said, so we're on an equal footing anyway. See ya for a few goodly beers.

We both stood, and stand, by what we said, so we're on an equal footing anyway. See ya for a few goodly beers.fair enough, at least your man enough to to turn up,unlike other posters i can mention,just ask for big al at the bar,the landlord will direct you... mines a pint of john smiths by the way...

What I don't understand is, why do some people who are claiming money they aren't entitled to talk/boast about it? Surely common sense would say keep your trap shut! As somebody else said, they're setting themselves up for getting caught out if they blab about it?

I thought my examples were bad, but watching "On the Fiddle" on BBC1 showed some classics:

Dodgy employer colluding with his employees
Scaffolder earning £1000 per week who advertises everywhere whilst claiming to be off sick
Couple absolutely loaded with BMW and Audi's, found guilty of claiming £80,000 illegally and suspected of owing another £350,000

Anyone else see it?