Has anyone seen the graffiti all over the walls and lamposts that say love god and believe in god and all that wondered if any1 knew owt about it.

http://www.believethetruth.com has all the answers you seek. I think he's called Henry, he spends a lot of time around Ecclesall Road and Hunters bar.

He also holds talks every sunday somewhere (not sure where).

If I understand correctly, Henry believes he is the son of god (Henry; Son of God, could be a new Monty Python film). He gave me a copy of the book he wrote last year.

If anyone needs an example of why not to take copius amounts of class a halucinogens, Henry is your man.

Check out a copy of the "go sheffield" fanzine...theres an interview with the guy in there.

I spied him spraying the fencing next to the station when I went by on the bus the other day.

did god tell him to graffiti then, cant he just give out his books!

the love is the proof of god stuff? e.g. along the screening running past the bus interchange? I find it quite offensive that they have taken it upon themselves to try and force their message on the landscape - it doesn't help i think its a load of rubbish, but i find it obnoxious!

Originally posted by czechroman
Has anyone seen the graffiti all over the walls and lamposts that say love god and believe in god and all that wondered if any1 knew owt about it.
I've seen "God Is Real" all over the city.

Oliver

Yeah, he just does it on objects that are not permanent, e.g. fencing, advertising boards, boarded up windows etc.

I find it quite amusing...its better than "shazza loves baz" or "Steva ov Manor"

Just for variation like.

Originally posted by HarrietStar
I find it quite offensive that they have taken it upon themselves to try and force their message on the landscape

You must hate the giant advertising boards everywhere then.

Originally posted by boyface
Yeah, he just does it on objects that are not permanent, e.g. fencing, advertising boards, boarded up windows etc.

I find it quite amusing...its better than "shazza loves baz" or "Steva ov Manor"

Just for variation like.

True, true - but defacing buildings is a little infuriating.

But then again, as a cat - I'm not bothered - :D :)

Oliver

i'v seen love is proof of god around the place and if anything it pushes me further away from religion. :rolleyes: does he really hope to convert people with scribble on a wall?

I'm guessing this was the guy responsible for "NUDERTY (sic) PROMOTES RAPE AND LUST" which appeared on West Street a while back?

You gotta love an eccentric. Maybe the Conservatives could get him in to do their 'hard-hitting' election billboards? I think it's a tactic that could work - this James chap has got a way with a slogan.

lol yeh I don't like it when I see adverts and then end up buying the product, it's like subliminal blackmail, but when the ad is artistic, witty or clever I think it's a good addition. There's no way that 'love is the proof of god' would make me buy into it though, lol

Although I'm not even remotely religious (& don't necessarily agree with graffitting!), I have to say that when I first saw that 'Love is proof of God' sprayed somewhere it was a bit like a mini-epiphany for me. It just clicked & I got it (although when I say 'clicked', it was more like the force of a bus hitting me.)

Love is proof of God... such a simple but beautiful sentence. Now every time I see it tagged somewhere it makes me smile. I still don't know if I believe in God, but that's the best arguement I've ever heard for his/her/its existence.

so hate is? the proof of the devil? or god being mean? what about suffering and disasters - god's will?

I thought his name was Hendrick - not sure, he just told a friend of mine that. Maybe it changes depending on Gods mood ;)
I like the One Love logo he does - it has a big 'O' with a smaller 'n' and a smaller still 'e' inside that. Top graffitti!

Originally posted by Greenback
You gotta love an eccentric.

I don't think Henry's an eccentric, just a little ravaged by acid consumption that's all...

yeah i used to work at coffee rev on ecclesall road and Henry once asked my colleague if he could pay for his coffee with Love (not the kind of Love we know i don't think!) and handed her a cash note he'd made with the ONE LOVE symbol on. teehee.

Hahahahaha! That's ****ing genius!

Henry even got Londoners to accept his 'Love Money' - that's good going!

- quick diversion, but I'm sure that when I first read this post, someone said his name was James?! I posted saying it was more along the lines of Hendrick, i re-read the posts and it now says Henry (which i presume to be correct)
Have i lost the plot?

Its Henry!

He's in his late 20's and does a mass on Park Hill somewhere.

He even paid for his train fare to London with "love tokens".

Originally posted by nick2
You must hate the giant advertising boards everywhere then.


Advertisers pay for that space of course, and therefore own the right to display their message there.

Originally posted by Sifuweb
Its Henry!

He's in his late 20's and does a mass on Park Hill somewhere.

He even paid for his train fare to London with "love tokens".

Wow, with so much intelligence on him, surely we can forward this information to the police and get him prosecuted?

Originally posted by t020
Advertisers pay for that space of course, and therefore own the right to display their message there.

Fly posters don't, of course.

Originally posted by Greenback
Fly posters don't, of course.

No, but that's illegal isn't it? If not, it should be.

hi, here is a copy of the interview we had with this dude, thought you might be interested.

"You know the religious graffiti round Sheffield? The slogans about love and god? They're all the work of one man. We asked him a couple of questions:

Roy Disco: so, why do you do it?
Religious Graffiti Artist: It's my job

RD [long pause]: Um, do you want to say anything more?
RGA: The sayings speak for themselves: Love ! Believe ! Trust ! God is real ! Love One Another! The One!

RD: Oh yes, the 'One' one [a circle with an N and E inside]. What does that mean?
RGA: When I write The One, 'Theo' means God. The 'One' is within itself, showing that everything is one. God is one. You have to look within the 'O', or yourself, to see One. If not, you just see '0' - nothing. Also 'One' and 0 - 1 and 0 - are for logic. On, Off. Night, Day. Black, White. Duality. And also Neo - god is the Matrix. And Matrix is Latin for Mother or Womb. It's all about 'Maya', the illusion [he pats the walls]"

I think he's mad as a bus, but it's better than billboards that say: oooh by some sand from Wickes. or: you're ugly, buy this.

Originally posted by czechroman
Has anyone seen the graffiti all over the walls and lamposts that say love god and believe in god and all that wondered if any1 knew owt about it.

I'd make them clean it off !!!

He's clearly mad as a box of frogs, but I like his style. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by t020
Advertisers pay for that space of course, and therefore own the right to display their message there.

But that's my space and your space, and I wasn't asked whether I wanted it sold.

Advertising is mind pollution.

Originally posted by t020
Advertisers pay for that space of course, and therefore own the right to display their message there.

They have no more right to force their message on me than this guy has though.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
[B]http://www.believethetruth.com has all the answers you seek. I think he's called Henry, he spends a lot of time around Ecclesall Road and Hunters bar.


I was loading up my truck on Sharrowvale Road one day, as Henry was passing by he beamed at me and said 'Bless You' Grrrrrrrr!

Originally posted by boyface
[B]Yeah, he just does it on objects that are not permanent, e.g. fencing, advertising boards, boarded up windows etc.



He even graffited a plank on the top of a skip at Hunters Bar!
Seriously!
:)

Might I suggest?
Spending less time.
Writing on walls.
And learning.
How.
To.
Punctuate?

Originally posted by nick2
They have no more right to force their message on me than this guy has though.

They do - they're paying for that right. In the same way, you could put a banner up conveying a message in your house's window, and force a message upon passers-by, but you couldn't put your banner up in other people's windows without their permission.

The shop next to the Flying Piza on West St has a boarded up entrance, and it now says on it "prayer will open the door". Must be him. Made me laugh!

I think its sad that everyone is taking such a negative view.

It made me smile when I saw the Love is the proof of God message.


You dont have to be religious to appreciate the attempt of someone else to spread happiness.


I'm sure this chap is not doing this to cause offence but because he believes he has found a way of making people happy and is trying to spread it.

His way might be questionable but his motives are nice.

There are too many things in this life that are negative and full of misery, lets not search for more.

Just my humble opinion!

Originally posted by Greenback
He's clearly mad as a box of frogs, but I like his style. :thumbsup:

thats what they said about Jesus

i saw him get pulled by the police last year...he was busy graffiti-ing on a bus shelter,across the road from me on eccelsall road.....they stood for ages talking to him and writing stuff down in their little books..he made the bus shelter look awful. i dont know if the police did anything about it.the bus shelter did get cleaned....thank god for that at least! lol

I agree that you shouldn't break the law in your attempt to save people. Jesus said to respect the local laws.

I don't think people should be banned from spreading the Word, othereise you would have Songs of Praise and all the channels to do with religion on Sky banned.

BTW God should be spelt with a capital letter if you are talking about the divine being as God is his name. god with a small g is talking about a being type not a person.

Originally posted by t020
They do - they're paying for that right. In the same way, you could put a banner up conveying a message in your house's window, and force a message upon passers-by, but you couldn't put your banner up in other people's windows without their permission.

But who has sold them the space? It's a public space and belongs to the public - that's you and me. And we weren't consulted about the sale.

Originally posted by lazyfish
But who has sold them the space? It's a public space and belongs to the public - that's you and me. And we weren't consulted about the sale.

We elect the council - the council decide which public spaces should be advertised on. We therefore sell them the space by proxy.

Originally posted by jubby
I agree that you shouldn't break the law in your attempt to save people. Jesus said to respect the local laws.



I want to live in a clean city. I don't want a so-called graffiti artist spraying cans of paint all over the place, spreading The Word. I don't wish to be saved. I don't wish to know about God's love. As I said, I just want to live in a clean city.

Originally posted by t020
They do - they're paying for that right. In the same way, you could put a banner up conveying a message in your house's window, and force a message upon passers-by, but you couldn't put your banner up in other people's windows without their permission.

Legal right, yes, moral right, no.

They certainly don't have more moral right, than advertisers who don't pay.

They (the advertisers) are not paying me, to force their unpleasent messages through my eyes and into my conciousness. What do I care if they pay a third party to rent wall space? I don't.

I do care however, that I am being exposed to something that is harmful to my being. If they pay anyone, they should be paying me for the harm they are doing to my being (infact I may sue them!).

Advertising works by actively making a person feel dissatisfied and unhappy with his or her lot in life, and presenting them with a way to improve thier life (buy their product / service).

Are you saying that advertisers have the right to make people feel dissatisfied and crap about themselves, just because they've rented wall space?

If this love god guy can get away with it, is it morally right for me to start graffitiing bus stops and petrol stations to advertise my prints for sale or Dirty Cheese?

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
If this love god guy can get away with it, is it morally right for me to start graffitiing bus stops and petrol stations to advertise my prints for sale or Dirty Cheese?

It's a bit different.

You'd be in the same catagory as main stream advertisers (morally speaking). You have something to sell.

The god guy isn't trying to sell anything, he's just expressing himeslf.

If you were to spray something like ... 'be happy and satisfied' ... you'd be better off (morally speaking).

Originally posted by t020
We elect the council - the council decide which public spaces should be advertised on. We therefore sell them the space by proxy.

It's a shame we don't get any of the money by proxy too.

Originally posted by redrobbo
I want to live in a clean city. I don't want a so-called graffiti artist spraying cans of paint all over the place, spreading The Word. I don't wish to be saved. I don't wish to know about God's love. As I said, I just want to live in a clean city.

As I said in my quote that Theay respect local laws. If you don't want to be saved and know God's love its a shame as I want you to be saved. Even if we don't agree sometimes robbo, I want you to see God' plan for you. Maybe you should try it you never know your life may changed for ever.

I agree with the other poster as well as these phrases he uses are good phrases by spraying them without any explainertaty (sorry about the spelling) backing won't help a lot of people understand what he is trying to say. A lot of people on here have called him a loon, don't see why as the interview quote makes him sound intelligent I just feel he is going about it the wrong way.

Originally posted by Jamie
If you were to spray something like ... 'be happy and satisfied' ... you'd be better off (morally speaking).

What if I sprayed "Be Happy and Satisfied, come to Dirty Cheese" :)

i hate this guy,he doesnt even use spraypaint,its chalk

gives graffiti a bad name

plus i aint to keen on religion being forced upon me,so i usualy take the time to wipe the crap of myself

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
http://www.believethetruth.com has all the answers you seek. I think he's called Henry, he spends a lot of time around Ecclesall Road and Hunters bar.

He also holds talks every sunday somewhere (not sure where).

If I understand correctly, Henry believes he is the son of god (Henry; Son of God, could be a new Monty Python film). He gave me a copy of the book he wrote last year.

If anyone needs an example of why not to take copius amounts of class a halucinogens, Henry is your man.

You know Henry too?

I don't know him as such, but I bump into him regularly around Hunters Bar.

Its a load of ******** it aint true all that god stuff gets on my nerves

Originally posted by lizovarbour
Its a load of ******** it aint true all that god stuff gets on my nerves

Are we talking about god as in entity or God as in the person. There is historical evidence to support the Jesus the person, his trail, execution and resurection.

There's probably evidence to support my claim to killing Kennedy.

Originally posted by THCAyle
i hate this guy,he doesnt even use spraypaint,its chalk

gives graffiti a bad name

plus i aint to keen on religion being forced upon me,so i usualy take the time to wipe the crap of myself

If this is true and it is done in chalk....therefore wipes off...then it isnt a huge problem is it??

nah,thats why i like the fact its in chalk,so i can wipe it off

Suppose if it is only chalk it isn't really a problem. At least chalk washes off easily. If I caught him with a spraycan defacing bus stops I'd call the police.

erk,that mikesam post was me,using my dads computer n forgot he was logged in

Originally posted by Jamie
Legal right, yes, moral right, no.

They certainly don't have more moral right, than advertisers who don't pay.

They (the advertisers) are not paying me, to force their unpleasent messages through my eyes and into my conciousness. What do I care if they pay a third party to rent wall space? I don't.

I do care however, that I am being exposed to something that is harmful to my being. If they pay anyone, they should be paying me for the harm they are doing to my being (infact I may sue them!).

Advertising works by actively making a person feel dissatisfied and unhappy with his or her lot in life, and presenting them with a way to improve thier life (buy their product / service).

Are you saying that advertisers have the right to make people feel dissatisfied and crap about themselves, just because they've rented wall space?

Yes, because they've rented the space - they can put what they like. There needs to be a system in place so that advertisers can only advertised in designated spots and that also stops people from just scrawling anywhere and everywhere. The system as it stands is OK, though there should be more of a crackdown on graffiti and it should be cleaned up faster. Perhaps the money raised from rented advertising space could pay for keeping the city clean and graffiti free?

Adverts aren't morally wrong. Only weak-minded people fall for tricks they play and companies need to advertise or else the general public would not know their product/service exists. Graffiti is morally wrong - it's vandalism, the space has not been designated and no permission has been granted to the 'artist'.

Originally posted by THCAyle
i hate this guy,he doesnt even use spraypaint,its chalk

gives graffiti a bad name

plus i aint to keen on religion being forced upon me,so i usualy take the time to wipe the crap of myself


Not sure if it is you that sprays 'THC' round Nether Edge, but if it is, next time can you do it in chalk so we can wipe THAT crap off?

Henry's graffiti has a message (whether you agree with it or not). What message does tagging have?

Originally posted by t020
Yes, because they've rented the space - they can put what they like.

t020 - I agree 100% with the posting of Jamie's that you quoted and so disagreed with.

From your post, I take it you think that because something is legally acceptable, it doesn't matter whether it's morally right or not? Because advertisers have the money to afford to assault our eyes and our self-worth on a daily basis, the British public just has to lump it, however much it offends, upsets, or demeans?

You can change channels on your tv if you don't want to be exposed to the adverts, but you can't close your eyes while driving past huge advertising hoardings. It's a daily assault on people's self-esteem. I object to it strongly, but who can I complain to? No-one it seems, as it's 'legal', as long as the advertising has been paid for.

At least some grafitti artists are genuinely artistic, and some produce visually pleasing images. And they don't try to make the viewer feel bad about themselves.

Sounds to me like you believe Money is of more value than People....

That's very sad.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by StarSparkle
t020 - I agree 100% with the posting of Jamie's that you quoted and so disagreed with.

From your post, I take it you think that because something is legally acceptable, it doesn't matter whether it's morally right or not? Because advertisers have the money to afford to assault our eyes and our self-worth on a daily basis, the British public just has to lump it, however much it offends, upsets, or demeans?

You can change channels on your tv if you don't want to be exposed to the adverts, but you can't close your eyes while driving past huge advertising hoardings. It's a daily assault on people's self-esteem. I object to it strongly, but who can I complain to? No-one it seems, as it's 'legal', as long as the advertising has been paid for.

At least some grafitti artists are genuinely artistic, and some produce visually pleasing images. And they don't try to make the viewer feel bad about themselves.

Sounds to me like you believe Money is of more value than People....

That's very sad.

StarSparkle


What I mean is that graffiti AND adverts are both forced upon people, but adverts are morally better because they've been paid for so the advertisers have actually got permission to display their advert. You might find graffiti "visually pleasing" - not many people do. I'd much rather see ad boards than ANY kind of graffiti, personally. As for not being able to escape their messages - try looking at the road ahead instead of gazing at advert boards to the side of the road.

Originally posted by THCAyle
i hate this guy,he doesnt even use spraypaint,its chalk

gives graffiti a bad name

plus i aint to keen on religion being forced upon me,so i usualy take the time to wipe the crap of myself

Religion, and religious beliefs are freedom of choice: this guy doesn't ram it down your throat, and "force" you to believe in any or every god.... you can look at the "artwork" and say "aww, shweet, this guy believes in god"..... same as he doesn't force you to *not* beieve in a god. that choice is a matter for your own conscience.

As for using chalk as a medium for his work, that is precisely the reason why i don't object to this guys "artworks"
it's not damaging anything, as chalk washes off, it doesn't seep into the surface, like paint and marker pens do.

I'd rather see the transient kind of graffiti that this guy does, than the "Look, everyone! I'm a brain-dead moron, and here's proof" type of graffiti that the s**head taggers leave everywhere.

I am heartily sick of having to arrange clear-up after the d***-heads have been at it, on the office building where I have been working. morning after morning we come in, after having cleared one lot up, to find another shedload of infantile scribblings all over the walls.

It's odd, but my mother got me right out of writing on walls when I was 2 years old, after a damn good hiding for doing it

maybe that is what they want.... a good thick ear, to dissuade them. cos I can't see them being as young as 2, to be doing this, (well, they *could* be 2 mentally, perhaps, cos it don't take a deal of brain to scribble on a wall, does it!???)

PT

sham,im in the THC crew.but i dont tag,as i dont see the point,although some tags can be very artistic with well thought out hand styles and lettering,although most of it i dont agree with,but IMO i dont see tagging as graffiti art,its plain old graffiti,whereas if you ever wanted to look about and find some peices done by me or any other sheffield writer,you may like them,maybe not,but its better than tags,this is why graffiti needs more legal spaces(and im not saying over all legalisation) but if more legal spots where availible,tags wouldnt exist,because people would have all the time in the world,all we have in sheffield is one tiny basketball court

Originally posted by THCAyle
if more legal spots where availible,tags wouldnt exist,because people would have all the time in the world,all we have in sheffield is one tiny basketball court

But there are places in Sheff which welcome good graff. The House Skatepark at Neepsend usually has some nice pieces up both inside and outside the park.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
There's probably evidence to support my claim to killing Kennedy.

the difference is I could get hold of my evedence could you?

I say there is evedence not probaly

t020 and StarSparkle:

I personally think that what our rigid legal system calls 'right' *IS NOT* the same as what is good for and beneficial to people's well-being. Often, it is (to some degree) harmful to peoples' well-being (correct use of apostropie?).

Our legal system is something of a tool that the rich and powerful use to keep the status quo (keep themselves in a position of power).

I am not saying that our legal system (and money) is wholey a bad thing. Only that they are rigid and inflexible structures, that are prone to abuse from people who use them to further their own ends.

Our legal system does not always represent the best interests of the people it purports to serve.

So purely from a legal perspective, adverts (that are legally paid for) are 'right' and 'proper', even though they are harmful to the people.

t020 seems to suggest that this is OK, because only the weak-minded people fall for their tricks. I don't agree.

Our minds are saturated with subliminal messages from adverts, day in, day out, on TV, on Billboards, on Radio, in Magazines and Newspapers, Online and just about everywhere you look.

These messages are programming us with feelings of inadequacy, unworthyness and need. We are then presented with a way out of our misery (that they have cultivated within us), all we need to do is spend spend spend £££. We are being manipulated like sheep. We are consuming / consumer sheep.

Are you not affected by all this t020?

Do you not aspire to have more money so you can go out and buy more 'stuff' because you feel this will lead you to satisfaction?

Is that not what we all aspire to in this life? Because we've been conditioned to. Flippin' heck, we even pay for the privilage of having the most devious Billboard (TV) of all in our own homes!

I never agreed to have these images and ideas forced upon me, I never wanted to have my mind saturated with their crap, but they do it anyway.

Messages from chaps such as this 'god guy' stike me as being more truthful and honest and carry a message that I don't need to go out and spend £££ to be a happy, full and complete. These seem to me, much more beneficial to the human condion.

So if you take morality to mean that which is wholesome and beneficial to people, I say yes, random grafiti is more moral than shiney, glossy corporate crap that tells me I'm worthless.

Woooo hoooo !!!

One more post and I'm at 2000 !!!

Sorry ... couldn't stop myself :o

EDIT:

Think I'll stop posting now I've hit 2,000. Chatroom only from now on. Bye guys and girls (kisses for all the lovely SF ladies xxx).

Originally posted by THCAyle
sham,im in the THC crew.but i dont tag,as i dont see the point,although some tags can be very artistic with well thought out hand styles and lettering,although most of it i dont agree with,but IMO i dont see tagging as graffiti art,its plain old graffiti,whereas if you ever wanted to look about and find some peices done by me or any other sheffield writer,you may like them,maybe not,but its better than tags,this is why graffiti needs more legal spaces(and im not saying over all legalisation) but if more legal spots where availible,tags wouldnt exist,because people would have all the time in the world,all we have in sheffield is one tiny basketball court

Only 1 full stop! Fresh out of chav school?
And no, thank you, I don't want to look around for your so-called art - it's graffiti, not art, and unwelcome.

Originally posted by Jamie
So if you take morality to mean that which is wholesome and beneficial to people, I say yes, random grafiti is more moral than shiney, glossy corporate crap that tells me I'm worthless.


How is graffiti "wholesome" or "beneficial to people"? It costs people money to clear up, it's visually polluting in most people's eyes - I can't see how it benefits anybody and I can't see how it is moral. So you think adverts are wrong, and that's something you obviously have a strong opinion about (personally they don't bother me, and without them we'd not be aware of many products services, including this forum which most people find through internet advertising) but even then just because adverts are wrong doesn't mean graffiti is right either.

Originally posted by t020
How is graffiti "wholesome" or "beneficial to people"? It costs people money to clear up, it's visually polluting in most people's eyes - I can't see how it benefits anybody and I can't see how it is moral. So you think adverts are wrong, and that's something you obviously have a strong opinion about (personally they don't bother me, and without them we'd not be aware of many products services, including this forum which most people find through internet advertising) but even then just because adverts are wrong doesn't mean graffiti is right either.

No, I don't think adverts are 'wrong' and I don't have that stong an opinion on the matter. They are just, exactly what they are, like everything else.

The part I have 'some' distaste for is how companies actively set out to cultivate discontent in people and manipulate us, just so we will buy their product or service.

My other point, is that it's not just one isolated advert here and there, they are everywhere!

I do think the messages we get, to have this or that, be like this or that person, are not good for us. Our well being is not a priorty here.

Having said all that, I don't have that stong an opinion on the matter t020, I simply recognise the mechanics of the situation for what they actually are.

Grafiti (that carries an uplifting message), personally I prefer to large corporate adverts. I like the personal and individual nature of them.


p.s. Still waiting for you to confirm my correct use of apostrophe in my earlier post (2 up)!

;)

:P

A little off-topic perhaps... but those Conservative election billboards look like they've been heaviuly influenced by graffitti, both in terms of style and in mindset. I presume t020 will join me in condemning such a visual and intellectual monstrosity?

:)

Ok, PROVE to me that god exists. Show me concrete proof, none of this "it says so in the bible" 5hit.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Ok, PROVE to me that god exists. Show me concrete proof, none of this "it says so in the bible" 5hit.

This great mystery (that some of us call 'god') is more sublime than any course human intellectual contruct like 'exist' or 'not-exist'.

What is there, that can both exist and not-exist, at the same time?

What is there, that can both be everything and nothing, at the same time?

What is there, can be behond time itself, no time and forever?

Does it even have a name?

Does it need a name?

It will forever evade our attempts to grasp and measure or PROVE / DISPROVE it.

I believe it finds amusment in calling itself 'god' (and then wondering if it can PROVE it's own existance or not).

How ironic that we consider it to be something seperate to us ...



Personally, I wouldn't believe anything just because it says it in the bible either Agent Gypo.

What is, simply is, and that's that.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Ok, PROVE to me that god exists. Show me concrete proof, none of this "it says so in the bible" 5hit.

Angelina Jolie, crispy duck pancakes and a last-minute winner against your local rivals. Case closed.

Sorry, I was just trying to bait jubby and see if I could get a decent response.

Angelina Jolie is the Proof of God :)

look out for the documentary about Henry and his work premiering at the doc-fest in november. was going to make it last year but got too tied up with uni work. the summer will give us plenty of time to film it, got some interview footage and stuff he filmed in london already.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Ok, PROVE to me that god exists. Show me concrete proof, none of this "it says so in the bible" 5hit.

The Bible is accepeted by a lot of people and I mean intelletual types as historical evedence.

It is hard to give you hard proof about proof of God, as any suggestion could have an agrument against, my belief is based on personal experience. I have been invited to write a testomy for my church magazine about my experience of finding God, I will gladly send you a copy just PM me with your address.

In my post I think you will find I said there is proof that Jesus exsisted. He is even mentioned in the Koran as well.

The book I am reading is call The Jesus Conspricay (first published as The Trail) and is a book that talks about the whole cast of REAL people that was involved in the judging and killing of Jesus. In the back their is an extensive bibleography.

For me to list this would be boring to you and other members of this forum, but the evedence is there, if you would care to look.

Originally posted by Jamie

Personally, I wouldn't believe anything just because it says it in the bible either Agent Gypo.

What is, simply is, and that's that.

I don't believe becuase it is just written, or I'd believe Harry Potter was real. The bible records history as well as spirtual.

I beleve becuase of personal experience, this is why I am Born Again as all true christians are. I am not part of any sect or cult, as society want to put me in.

When my Mum was in hospital (she is a christian at the same church as me) they wouldn't let me put Christian and tried to put CofE, I tried to point out that my faith as simply Christian (just as the Apolsile Paul said so) I asked some Muslim friends and they have never had this problem even though the Muslim faith is divided in a similar way.

How many people on here put CofE or any faith for that matter but do not practise or belief.????

Originally posted by Greenback
A little off-topic perhaps... but those Conservative election billboards look like they've been heaviuly influenced by graffitti, both in terms of style and in mindset. I presume t020 will join me in condemning such a visual and intellectual monstrosity?

:)


I think the aim is for them to appear as though they're written by an "ordinary" person. It doesn't look like graffiti to me, but then again they can put pretty much what they like up there so long as it's approved by the ASA and they pay for renting the space. A graffiti artist could rent a billboard and get their message across legally, if they were so inclined.

Originally posted by t020 but then again they can put pretty much what they like up there so long as it's approved by the ASA and they pay for renting the space.

I was gonna say that :clap: :clap:

just because something is written in the bible doesnt mean its true,i beleive this about most historical records,just because someone wrote it down doesnt mean its true,but i like to beleive that most of it is.

i dont think most of you still get that all writing on the walls isnt graffiti art

Originally posted by t020
I think the aim is for them to appear as though they're written by an "ordinary" person. It doesn't look like graffiti to me, but then again they can put pretty much what they like up there so long as it's approved by the ASA and they pay for renting the space. A graffiti artist could rent a billboard and get their message across legally, if they were so inclined.

agreed but they want it provided free by the council from what i understand i mean if they can afford the spray pain im sure if they saved up they could rent a spot in the city centre or suburb and turn it into their own little ghetto

Originally posted by lizovarbour
Its a load of ******** it aint true all that god stuff gets on my nerves i'll tell you there is no real proff is there anyone from his time to tell you he's real or any pictures no cus it's a load of bull so stop doing ****ty graffiti

I sense a big theological debate coming on...

lizovarbour:

why are you quoting yourself?

jubby:

i agree it is best to believe whatever you believe, because of personal experience, because you've felt it directly inside yourself, rather than just because everyone else says it is so.

but does any label you give yourself, change who you really are?

good way of putting it

Originally posted by lizovarbour
i'll tell you there is no real proff is there anyone from his time to tell you he's real or any pictures no cus it's a load of bull so stop doing ****ty graffiti

I'm not doing any (enter your swear word here as you all seem to think swearing is ok) Graffiti. I have said that on here that Jesus taught to respect the local law, so therefore by spraying walls is not respecting that. There is no one here from lots of peoples time doesn't mean becuase people from that time and there are no comtempory pictures doesn't mean they don't exist. The existence of Jesus is recorded in more than the Bible or the Koran his execution was recorded by the Romans and the Jews of the time this is why we know the date he was executed. The birth wasn't recorded in the same way this is why the time of his birth is debated.

Originally posted by Jamie
lizovarbour:

why are you quoting yourself?

jubby:

i agree it is best to believe whatever you believe, because of personal experience, because you've felt it directly inside yourself, rather than just because everyone else says it is so.

but does any label you give yourself, change who you really are?

I think I see where you are coming from. Its not the fact I want to give myself a label, I am happy with the broad term of Christian as are my fellow brothers and Sisters. Its other people that feel we have to fit in a a box or group. I try to follow the teachings of the bible as best as I am able with the support of my church family, but society needs to label that family. ie CofE, Catholic, Angligan, etc. From looking at these groups it cause division and then volence which goes against the teachings of Christ and his Aposoties.

I want my friends and family to be saved as I do everyone, but I can only do so much and it is at the end of the day up to the person concerned. I only accepted God into my life becuase I wanted to. I took my wife to church and if she didn't like it I would not pressure her, same with my mum. My brother and Sister came to my Baptism the other week, they both enjoyed the loud rock worship music, but at this time don't what to become Christians, I will not force them as that is not the way to be saved. I pray that their heart will open up to the love God has for them as I do for all of you, but like I say above it is down to you.

Originally posted by THCAyle
i hate this guy,he doesnt even use spraypaint,its chalk

gives graffiti a bad name

plus i aint to keen on religion being forced upon me,so i usualy take the time to wipe the crap of myself

AT least he is considerate in using chalk which will wash away - not like those idots with spray cans who are malicious like dogs marking their territory with permanent eyesore illegible scrawls

was on the bus and saw this Photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Just4thespace/Photo0394.jpg)
thought u guys would like this so i whiped out my phone and got a pic for ya :D now those who havent seen 'em can join in the thread

can ne1 recognise where that photo was taken? :)

Originally posted by Craigy
was on the bus and saw this Photo (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Just4thespace/Photo0394.jpg)
thought u guys would like this so i whiped out my phone and got a pic for ya :D now those who havent seen 'em can join in the thread

can ne1 recognise where that photo was taken? :)

Not a problem with the message just the method

Originally posted by Craigy

can ne1 recognise where that photo was taken? :)

Glossop Road, just before the University tram stop. What do I win? :clap: :D

Actually I saw him painting this on Sunday afternoon, I was walking up to the Union. He's much younger than I imagined he would be.

Love god graffiti in town, yrp! another local weirdo!

Originally posted by jubby
Not a problem with the message just the method

Agree with jubby about the method.

Can't someone employ this guy as a designer of wayside pulpits, and put his talents to legitimate use?

Last year, I stopped a guy erecting his home made cardboard signs (proclaiming 'Jesus saves') on a ring-road traffic island. He claimed he had a right to advertise God's love to all who drove by. I explained that Jesus was not in the business of allowing people to die, or be injured or maimed, because they had been distracted, whilst driving, by his home-made placards. At the point he declared that Jesus would save all drivers from accidents, I gave up that line of argument and simply said if he didn't remove his placards, I'd report him for fly-posting. He cleared off, taking his placards with him.

Unauthorised messages on private or council land, is simply fly posting or graffiti. It does not matter how witty, or innocent, the message, or how well drawn or badly drawn. It encourages the stupid acts of people like THCAyle (see previous post), and gives license to all and sundry to follow suit.

How anyone can justify this guy's actions just because he uses chalk, and/or is witty, and/or is propagating a Christian message is beyond my imagination. We've just had nazi symbols chalked on a wall on my road - is that acceptable?

All these so-called graffiti artists should either be prosecuted
or served with an ASBO.

Originally posted by venger
Love god graffiti in town, yrp! another local weirdo!

Is he in your opinion a weirdo becuase he belives in God or becuase of the fact he sprays words on property?

Originally posted by jubby
Is he in your opinion a weirdo becuase he belives in God or becuase of the fact he sprays words on property?

Ok, religion can be a verypersonal thing, so I will leave that one there.

Because you like, love approve or believe in, of or etc.....

There are better methods of demonstrating your support I would say :suspect:

Originally posted by redrobbo
Agree with jubby about the method.

Can't someone employ this guy as a designer of wayside pulpits, and put his talents to legitimate use?

Last year, I stopped a guy erecting his home made cardboard signs (proclaiming 'Jesus saves') on a ring-road traffic island. He claimed he had a right to advertise God's love to all who drove by. I explained that Jesus was not in the business of allowing people to die, or be injured or maimed, because they had been distracted, whilst driving, by his home-made placards. At the point he declared that Jesus would save all drivers from accidents, I gave up that line of argument and simply said if he didn't remove his placards, I'd report him for fly-posting. He cleared off, taking his placards with him.

Unauthorised messages on private or council land, is simply fly posting or graffiti. It does not matter how witty, or innocent, the message, or how well drawn or badly drawn. It encourages the stupid acts of people like THCAyle (see previous post), and gives license to all and sundry to follow suit.

How anyone can justify this guy's actions just because he uses chalk, and/or is witty, and/or is propagating a Christian message is beyond my imagination. We've just had nazi symbols chalked on a wall on my road - is that acceptable?

All these so-called graffiti artists should either be prosecuted
or served with an ASBO.

A very good post. I agree 100%. :clap:

Originally posted by venger
Ok, religion can be a verypersonal thing, so I will leave that one there.

Because you like, love approve or believe in, of or etc.....

There are better methods of demonstrating your support I would say :suspect:

You didn't answer why yoy thought he was a weirdo

Originally posted by redrobbo
Agree with jubby about the method.

Can't someone employ this guy as a designer of wayside pulpits, and put his talents to legitimate use?

Last year, I stopped a guy erecting his home made cardboard signs (proclaiming 'Jesus saves') on a ring-road traffic island. He claimed he had a right to advertise God's love to all who drove by. I explained that Jesus was not in the business of allowing people to die, or be injured or maimed, because they had been distracted, whilst driving, by his home-made placards. At the point he declared that Jesus would save all drivers from accidents, I gave up that line of argument and simply said if he didn't remove his placards, I'd report him for fly-posting. He cleared off, taking his placards with him.

Unauthorised messages on private or council land, is simply fly posting or graffiti. It does not matter how witty, or innocent, the message, or how well drawn or badly drawn. It encourages the stupid acts of people like THCAyle (see previous post), and gives license to all and sundry to follow suit.

How anyone can justify this guy's actions just because he uses chalk, and/or is witty, and/or is propagating a Christian message is beyond my imagination. We've just had nazi symbols chalked on a wall on my road - is that acceptable?

All these so-called graffiti artists should either be prosecuted
or served with an ASBO.

I agree 100% Red

If a church paid for advertising space to advertise its message/events no problem. That is why no complains when they see advertisements (witty or otherwise) on the notice boards outside churches (you know the ones that advertise service times). The best on I ever saw and this was before I bacame born again was "what is missing? CH_ _ CH" but if I saw this sprayed on some wall somewhere I'd still think the message as witty but wrong as to the way it was displayed, if it was on a paid for bill board no probs.

Religion is personal very personal it is all about my soul, as I said I want everyone to see the love and plan God has but they must be ready to accept. I didn't see fully until this happened myself. I would never think of spraying walls but telling people about God doesn't make me a weirdo.

Any Unathorized Graffiti should be proscecuted. When I lived in London saw many a nice design on the tube trains, but all becuase it looked nice didn't make it legal. There are plenty of art galleries where the "graffti" artist can display and even sell there work. Art is a matter of opinion and taste so one mans art is antothers rubbish.

one of the main points of graffiti is the fact its outside,on walls or signs,its what makes it what it is.its not the same in some fancy gallery that only accepts the work of recognised artists,where you have to pay to see it.its all about the fact anyone can do it and everyone can see it for free.

you wanna prosecute us,you gotta catch us

Originally posted by THCAyle
one of the main points of graffiti is the fact its outside,on walls or signs,its what makes it what it is.its not the same in some fancy gallery that only accepts the work of recognised artists,where you have to pay to see it.its all about the fact anyone can do it and everyone can see it for free.

you wanna prosecute us,you gotta catch us

There are plenty of galleries in this fair land that are free to enter and a lot that only use new artists.

My pastor paints (not religious art) and he has had some items bought by Coffee Republic.

His pen name is Dagarte

See some of his work here...

http://www.dagarte.com/

Religion sucks. Fair play to anyone who is religious that's your business but what really angers me is when religious people start pushing it upon others who are more often than not the most vulnerable and impressionable mebers of society. I am sick to death of people pushing THEIR religion upon me on the street etc. I like to go out drinking and occasionally smoke weed but you don't see me walking upto people on the street and basically force a can of stella and a spliff down their throats.

I personally think that religion is the fundemental cause of much of the worlds problems such as:

- Numerous wars, and therefore deaths, caused by religious differences

- The AIDS epidemic is getting worse. A main cause of this is the fact that the Catholic Church do not and will not promote the use of Condoms as it is a form of contraception and do not see it as a method of preventing HIV and AIDS

- Religion can affect politics, just look at the USA and G W Bush

- Religion can cause Terrorism, e.g. Northern Ireland and Al Qaeda.

They are just a few of the reasons why I am not religious in any way. You don't see a group fundamental Atheists go round bombing trains or waging wars on other countries as they are evil and we are good do you?

Fix up and shut up:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

edit: oh and by the way. Grafitti is a part of living in or near a city centre. It has happened for hundreds of years and will carry on to happen for hundreds of years to come. However many ASBOs are dished out by the Govt they are not going to stop people who feel like Graffing is a way of life. I am referring to the tallented graff artists not the little skets who write stuff like 'Fez woz ere' or 'Love God' by the way.

Originally posted by THCAyle
one of the main points of graffiti is the fact its outside,on walls or signs,its what makes it what it is. its all about the fact anyone can do it and everyone can see it for free.

you wanna prosecute us,you gotta catch us

So, following the logic of THCAyle..... because graffiti, (in my real life example, nazi slogans chalked on a wall on my road) was "outside", and "everyone can see it for free", that makes it acceptable does it? "anyone can do it" says TCHAyle, and so that makes it all right then?

No, TCHAyle, it was juvenile, ignorant and offensive. It was also done under the cover of darkness. Do you skulk in the shadows as well - afraid of being observed and identified, in case you get caught in the act? Graffiti isn't anything to do with these ridiculous justifications postulated by THCAyle. It is all about immaturity, mindless vandalism and desecration, and the thrill of trying to do it undetected and escaping prosecution. Stop trying to justify illegal activity TCHAyle, and do try and recognise how offensive your graffiti exploits are. It would help you mature, or at least grow up.

P.S. Glad to see you're using full stops now. If you could just try leaving a slight gap between the full stop and the first letter of the next sentence, that would also help folk read your posts. I hope you don't mind these handy hints.

P.P.S. My apologies for suggesting earlier that you may have attended a chav school. As I am now coming to appreciate your intellectual skills, as demonstrated in your posts, and to acknowledge your talent to spray-paint graffiti in the dark - my remark was clearly way off the mark, and I publicly withdraw it unreservedly.

Originally posted by 5_HATS
Religion sucks. Fair play to anyone who is religious that's your business but what really angers me is when religious people start pushing it upon others who are more often than not the most vulnerable and impressionable mebers of society. I am sick to death of people pushing THEIR religion upon me on the street etc. I like to go out drinking and occasionally smoke weed but you don't see me walking upto people on the street and basically force a can of stella and a spliff down their throats.

I personally think that religion is the fundemental cause of much of the worlds problems such as:

- Numerous wars, and therefore deaths, caused by religious differences

- The AIDS epidemic is getting worse. A main cause of this is the fact that the Catholic Church do not and will not promote the use of Condoms as it is a form of contraception and do not see it as a method of preventing HIV and AIDS

- Religion can affect politics, just look at the USA and G W Bush

- Religion can cause Terrorism, e.g. Northern Ireland and Al Qaeda.

They are just a few of the reasons why I am not religious in any way. You don't see a group fundamental Atheists go round bombing trains or waging wars on other countries as they are evil and we are good do you?

Fix up and shut up:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

edit: oh and by the way. Grafitti is a part of living in or near a city centre. It has happened for hundreds of years and will carry on to happen for hundreds of years to come. However many ASBOs are dished out by the Govt they are not going to stop people who feel like Graffing is a way of life. I am referring to the tallented graff artists not the little skets who write stuff like 'Fez woz ere' or 'Love God' by the way.

I am not a fanatic or anything like that. I do not believe in killing people for beliving something different than me.

In regard to no relegious blowing things up, not all members of an army belive in God or any other religion. People are also persecuted becuase of their belives by none religious people. Christians are not allowed to practise openly in China, people get called wreido's or sad becuase they say they believe in God. Also we follow Christian beliefd in our everyday lifes. BC and AD in the dates for one.

The biggest Atheists can change their views.

"Atheist Changes His Mind
NEW YORK (AP) Dec. 10, 2004 — A British philosophy professor who's been a leading champion of atheism for more than 50 years has changed his mind.

Antony Flew says scientific evidence has now convinced him that a super-intelligence is the only explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature. Flew says biologists' studies of D-N-A have shown "the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements" needed to produce life.

f his newfound belief upsets people, Flew says "that's too bad" -- but he's always been determined to "follow the evidence wherever it leads."

Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved "

Originally posted by jubby
I am not a fanatic or anything like that. I do not believe in killing people for beliving something different than me.

In regard to no relegious blowing things up, not all members of an army belive in God or any other religion. People are also persecuted becuase of their belives by none religious people. Christians are not allowed to practise openly in China, people get called wreido's or sad becuase they say they believe in God. Also we follow Christian beliefd in our everyday lifes. BC and AD in the dates for one.

The biggest Atheists can change their views.

"Atheist Changes His Mind
NEW YORK (AP) Dec. 10, 2004 — A British philosophy professor who's been a leading champion of atheism for more than 50 years has changed his mind.

Antony Flew says scientific evidence has now convinced him that a super-intelligence is the only explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature. Flew says biologists' studies of D-N-A have shown "the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements" needed to produce life.

f his newfound belief upsets people, Flew says "that's too bad" -- but he's always been determined to "follow the evidence wherever it leads."

Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved "

Believe me Jubby there aint no changing my mind. I am going to hell and i'm proud! At least it's warm there.

I know the guy who writes it everywhere!!!!

I knew him from ages ago

hes really cool he grins a lot

Originally posted by komal
I know the guy who writes it everywhere!!!!

I knew him from ages ago

hes really cool he grins a lot

In that case, why not catch him in the act alongside a couple f policemen?

i love the fact people are trying to insult me with my bad grammar and punctuation,or my intelligence

internet bitching,how funny it is

and no i didnt say people writing swasticka's on your road is fine,thats not graffiti art,you people still dont realise this,i dont agree with that!im more anti racist than martin luther king!

and no,the aim of graffiti is not to vandalise mindlessly,it is to create a peice,that you and other artists will apreaciate,have fun,a hobby

going out at night to do it is prefered even if it was legal,less people getting in your way,noone giving you ****,

dont think you know anything about graffiti,ive been at it for years now,i think i know better

Originally posted by THCAyle
i love the fact people are trying to insult me with my bad grammar and punctuation,or my intelligence

internet bitching,how funny it is

and no i didnt say people writing swasticka's on your road is fine,thats not graffiti art,you people still dont realise this,i dont agree with that!im more anti racist than martin luther king!

and no,the aim of graffiti is not to vandalise mindlessly,it is to create a peice,that you and other artists will apreaciate,have fun,a hobby

going out at night to do it is prefered even if it was legal,less people getting in your way,noone giving you ****,

dont think you know anything about graffiti,ive been at it for years now,i think i know better

But what you don't seem to realise is that we don't want to see it. Why do you assume you have a right to force your "art" on everyone else without permission?

Originally posted by t020
Why do you assume you have a right to force your "art" on everyone else without permission?

Why do advertisers assume the exact same thing?

Originally posted by THCAyle
i love the fact people are trying to insult me with my bad grammar and punctuation,or my intelligence

internet bitching,how funny it is

and no i didnt say people writing swasticka's on your road is fine,thats not graffiti art,you people still dont realise this,i dont agree with that!im more anti racist than martin luther king!

and no,the aim of graffiti is not to vandalise mindlessly,it is to create a peice,that you and other artists will apreaciate,have fun,a hobby

going out at night to do it is prefered even if it was legal,less people getting in your way,noone giving you ****,

dont think you know anything about graffiti,ive been at it for years now,i think i know better

Why can't you do it legally. My pastor doesn't do his art on buildings unlessed commissioned to so why do you feel the need to do it on other peoples property.

Would you like it if I came and sprayed over your doors and walls?

Have you ever tried to display your work, under a pen name or real name? If so where and when?

Originally posted by Jamie
Why do advertisers assume the exact same thing?


They don't. They seek permission off the Advertising Standards Agency to ensure their advert is deemed acceptable. They then apply for and pay for advertising space in the form of billboards.

Originally posted by t020
They don't. They seek permission off the Advertising Standards Agency to ensure their advert is deemed acceptable. They then apply for and pay for advertising space in the form of billboards.

They assume I want to see it.

They assume they have the right to force their images on me.

Getting permission from the Advertising Standards Agency and / or paying for the advertising space is of no interest to me. I still don't want to see there images and they have no more right to force them on me that a grafiti artist does.

Other than a legal right of course, and just because it's legal, doesn't make it 'right' right?

Originally posted by THCAyle
i love the fact people are trying to insult me with my bad grammar and punctuation,or my intelligence

internet bitching,how funny it is

and no i didnt say people writing swasticka's on your road is fine,thats not graffiti art,you people still dont realise this,i dont agree with that!im more anti racist than martin luther king!

and no,the aim of graffiti is not to vandalise mindlessly,it is to create a peice,that you and other artists will apreaciate,have fun,a hobby

going out at night to do it is prefered even if it was legal,less people getting in your way,noone giving you ****,

dont think you know anything about graffiti,ive been at it for years now,i think i know better

do you think a spell behind bars would put you off from doing what you do ?

just a honest question

Originally posted by Jamie
They assume I want to see it.

They assume they have the right to force their images on me.

Getting permission from the Advertising Standards Agency and / or paying for the advertising space is of no interet to me. I still don't want to see there images and they have no more right to force them on me that a grafiti artist does.

Other than a legal right of course, and just because it's legal, doesn't make it 'right' right?

Laws are implicitly based on what the majority of people in the country find to be acceptable since we live in a democracy with an elected government that passes those laws. Most people don't want to see graffiti. Most people are fairly indifferent about advertising but accept it as being necessary.

Originally posted by t020
Laws are implicitly based on what the majority of people in the country find to be acceptable ...

No they're not! Well, not fully at least.

They're more like a mechanism, whereby the rich and the powerful maintain the status-quo and themselves in positions of power, having property etc ...

If you're astute enough, I believe you'll eventually realise that that is what our Laws are actually about.

Any consideration for 'what the majority want' and what's good for us, is almost 'tacked on' as an after-thought.

Just my opinion of course.

Originally posted by Jamie
No they're not! Well, not fully at least.

They're more like a mechanism, whereby the rich and the powerful maintain the status-quo and themselves in positions of power, having property etc ...

If you're astute enough, I believe you'll eventually realise that that is what our Laws are actually about.

Any consideration for 'what the majority want' and what's good for us, is almost 'tacked on' as an after-thought.

Just my opinion of course.

In my opinion, your opinion is spot-on, Jamie.

StarSparkle

Originally posted by Jamie
No they're not! Well, not fully at least.

They're more like a mechanism, whereby the rich and the powerful maintain the status-quo and themselves in positions of power, having property etc ...

If you're astute enough, I believe you'll eventually realise that that is what our Laws are actually about.

Any consideration for 'what the majority want' and what's good for us, is almost 'tacked on' as an after-thought.

Just my opinion of course.


Of course laws protect property. I don't want my property vandalised by graffiti "artwork" - most people wouldn't. Would you?

Originally posted by t020
Of course laws protect property. I don't want my property vandalised by graffiti "artwork" - most people wouldn't. Would you?

Nope, of course I wouldn't like my property (what property!? lol) vandalised.

I'm not saying that our Laws are wholey a bad thing t020. I think, considering mankinds current state of evolution (in terms of our attitude to each other, ourselves, and the planet) that we are much better of with Laws, than without them.

Again, that is just my opinion.

I simply refuse to delude myself as to the true nature of our wonderful (sarcasm) legal system. But that's just a fault of mine, I like to look past the surface of things, and see the true nature of a thing. Often, I am quite wrong though ...

Originally posted by StarSparkle
In my opinion, your opinion is spot-on, Jamie.

StarSparkle

Thank you StarSparkle *smiles*.

Originally posted by Jamie
Nope, of course I wouldn't like my property (what property!? lol) vandalised.

I'm not saying that our Laws are wholey a bad thing t020. I think, considering mankinds current state of evolution (in terms of our attitude to each other, ourselves, and the planet) that we are much better of with Laws, than without them.

Again, that is just my opinion.

I simply refuse to delude myself as to the true nature of our wonderful (sarcasm) legal system. But that's just a fault of mine, I like to look past the surface of things, and see the true nature of a thing. Often, I am quite wrong though ...


So you don't want graffiti on your property, you should be able to empathise with why other property owners (including homeowners, businesses, councils, etc) don't want it on their property too, so you can't really argue pro-graffiti.

Originally posted by t020
So you don't want graffiti on your property, you should be able to empathise with why other property owners (including homeowners, businesses, councils, etc) don't want it on their property too, so you can't really argue pro-graffiti.

I don't really mind to be honest, life is temporary, and no thing is any more important than any other thing, or worthy of causing me to get upset (apart from cute chicks of course!).

I don't expect you will be able to grasp this sentiment however.

On the grafiti issue, I am neither for or against it. I am only saying that I have some mild dislike for adverts being forced upon us, because, in essense they work by attempting to stir feelings of inadequacy within us. This is the essential component of adverts that I don't like. I like people (all people, including myself and you t020) to feel good, and to be healthy and well. I see adverts as being detrimental to this.

We are saturated with these adverts 24-7, and I am of the opinion that they do some harm to us (on an emotional and a phsycological level). Then again, people are always doing harm to each other, it seems to be the way most of us are.

Anyway, I give up for the night, bedtime for me, night.

Originally posted by Jamie
Nope, of course I wouldn't like my property (what property!? lol) vandalised.



Originally posted by Jamie
I don't really mind to be honest, life is temporary, and no thing is any more important than any other thing, or worthy of causing me to get upset (apart from cute chicks of course!).



Make your mind up.

Originally posted by t020
Make your mind up.

Sorry old boy, it just keeps changing ...

Are you able to keep your mind perfectly still and unchanged?

OK, in answer to your post, the former was coming from a day to day practicalities level, the latter from a philosophical, ultimate reality kind of level.

p.s.

Are you taking my questions to you seriously? It does seem that you dismiss them all without response.




EDIT: I should also point out that the 'life is temporary' idea, is in no way an excuse for lazyness, and not taking life by the horns and dealing with it in an appropriate manner. It does not mean that it is acceptable to let people crap on you, or spray grafiti on your walls etc ...

Originally posted by Jamie
Sorry old boy, it just keeps changing ...

Are you able to keep your mind perfectly still and unchanged?

OK, in answer to your post, the former was coming from a day to day practicalities level, the latter from a philosophical, ultimate reality kind of level.

p.s.

Are you taking my questions to you seriously? It does seem that you dismiss them all without response.




EDIT: I should also point out that the 'life is temporary' idea, is in no way an excuse for lazyness, and not taking life by the horns and dealing with it in an appropriate manner. It does not mean that it is acceptable to let people crap on you, or spray grafiti on your walls etc ...


You're argument is confusing. I'll try to clarify it with a simple question. Should people be allowed to paint whatever they want, wherever they want?

Originally posted by THCAyle

i didnt say people writing swasticka's on your road is fine,thats not graffiti art,you people still dont realise this,i dont agree with that!


What is the difference between swastikas and any other graffiti? None are welcome. My neighbours would be just as distressed to find that their boundary wall was coated in unwanted spray paint (or chalk), be it swastikas or anything else.


and no,the aim of graffiti is not to vandalise mindlessly,it is to create a peice,that you and other artists will apreaciate,have fun,a hobby


So the aim of graffiti is to vandalise with intent, rather than mindlessly? Thank you for that explanation - at least you acknowledge that graffiti is vandalism.

You want to create a "peice" (sic). OK, why not use the front wall of your own house? That way, no harm is done, and I and "other artists will apreaciate" (sic) it to our hearts content. In fact, I'll organise a viewing for my neighbours and myself - care to give me your address? No? Somehow I thought not.

If you want "fun" - try ice skating, rock climbing, or something similar. If you want a "hobby" - whatever happened to stamp collecting or macrame?


going out at night to do it is prefered even if it was legal,less people getting in your way,noone giving you ****,


Thank you for admitting that your activities are illegal. Spray paint your own house wall, and you may find that your so-called artistic talents will improve, as daylight spraying won't cramp your style.


dont think you know anything about graffiti,ive been at it for years now,i think i know better

Aren't you being a little contradictory? You've just suggested that your intention is to create a piece that I and other artists can appreciate. Now you're suggesting I don't know anything about graffiti? My neighbours and I were hoping for an invitation to attend an official showing of your work on your own house front wall - but it seems you are afraid of critical analysis of your talents. How disappointing for us.

What a shy graffiti sprayer you are. What a pity you've turned down the chance of a fan club to give you critical acclaim. Rest assured THCAyle, my neighbours would have clapped and cheered to have seen your artistic talents sprayed all over your own property - instead of theirs. Sure you won't change your mind?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't the issues of graffitti and advertising two seperate ones? Regardless of whether or not you agree with either?

T020, I agree with you wholeheartedly. IMO graffitti looks scruffy and doesn't contribute anything whatsoever to Sheffield (or anywhere).

Furthermore, and unlike graffitti, if you disagree with advertising, then there are routes you can take in order to complain about it. But generally, I don't think that there is a major conspiricy behind advertsing campaigns, or that they are pounding people with subliminal messages - just ignore them. Problems with inadequacy or low self esteem may actually be coming from within.

I can't see how anyone, other than the graffiti "artists" themselves, could argue that spray paint on someone's private premises looks good.

Maybe people like disagreeing with certain members of the forum for the sake of it.

When I was a teen I used to write in library books 'turn to page XXX'...then turn to page XXX then page XXX then XXX then XXX then XXX then I used to write why are you following me you great XXX!!

LOL

:thumbsup:

Originally posted by shieshuk
When I was a teen I used to write in library books 'turn to page XXX'...then turn to page XXX then page XXX then XXX then XXX then XXX then I used to write why are you following me you great XXX!!

LOL

:thumbsup:

But I thought you were still a teen? :confused:

yes I am but now late teen not early teen...lol!!!

Originally posted by Jamie
No they're not! Well, not fully at least.

They're more like a mechanism, whereby the rich and the powerful maintain the status-quo and themselves in positions of power, having property etc ...

If you're astute enough, I believe you'll eventually realise that that is what our Laws are actually about.

Any consideration for 'what the majority want' and what's good for us, is almost 'tacked on' as an after-thought.

Just my opinion of course.

I don't like adverts for ciggies and I now believe they are no longer allowed on large bilboards and part of some of the parties promises is to stop all ciggie adverts.

Without these billboard adverts a lot of business' would go under and yes I do mean the large compainies. The adverts cost a lot of money to advetise their product/offer but most of the time they recoup this. If the didn't advertise you would not know about a lot of products.

I work in retail and a lot of calls start with I've seen x product in x paper or on telly, we don't advertise much on billboards as our offers rotate too quickly. We do advertise on billboards for the fact a new store is opening, it called inforamation as well as advertisement.

how many times do i have to tell you

THOSE SWASTICKA'S ARE NOT GRAFFITI,they may be classed as graffiti by the government,but they dont know anything about it

about painting my own house,already done,and im very proud of the work i did,i dont spray other people's houses,unless they ask.

how about i give you a public showing then.pm me with a date and ill go get some paint.you think you can get me arrested i guess,well,have fun trying

Originally posted by jubby
You didn't answer why yoy thought he was a weirdo

Defensive arn't we?

Well if you did the same, then I would call you a weirdo also.

For the record, I am an atheist.

If I started defacing the public arena with my own beliefs, I would regard myself as a weirdo.

Now that is polite as I can put it I am afraid.

Originally posted by THCAyle
how many times do i have to tell you

THOSE SWASTICKA'S ARE NOT GRAFFITI,they may be classed as graffiti by the government,but they dont know anything about it

about painting my own house,already done,and im very proud of the work i did,i dont spray other people's houses,unless they ask.

how about i give you a public showing then.pm me with a date and ill go get some paint.you think you can get me arrested i guess,well,have fun trying

Well said THCAyle. Basically if you live in or near to a large city centre then you are going to see Graffiti.....standard. It has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years all over the world from cave paintings in Austalia and Spain to International Graffiti comps.

It is a form of expression and there is NO WAY that any of you will be able to stop it with lame arguments about how it does not look nice.

Yes it is illegal, but so is speeding in your car and how many of you on here have done that before (which I might add can be far more destructive to peoples lives). If you want really asthetically pleasing things to look at then move to the countryside and get away from the street culture that you find in EVERY large city throughout the world.

Originally posted by t020
You're argument is confusing. I'll try to clarify it with a simple question. Should people be allowed to paint whatever they want, wherever they want?

Morning t020.

I agree with BoroughGal, there are two seperate issues here.

1) Advertising, is it harmful to us on some level?

2) Grafiti, is it legal / fair / right, for people to spray whatever and wherever they like?

I'll state my views on both issues.

Advertising:

My opinion, is that we're saturated with adverts, a lot of them work by feeding us the idea that we're inaqequate, in what we own, how we look, etc. They do this to create need in us, a need to purchase their stuff.

Grafiti:

I have not been arguing the rights and wrongs of grafiti (in general) on this thread, but I'll let you know what I think anyway.

I am not sure as to the legal status of it. Can someone clarify this for me please. I suspect it isn't legal.

Generally speaking, neither do not think it is apropriate, fair or right, but then, this would depend on what and where it is.

I do agree with you in that, in some cases it does look quite ugly and harsh on the eye. Equally, in some cases, it may be a work of art and considered quite beautiful by some. I would have to consider each instance of 'street art' / graphiti on it's own merit. In most cases, graphiti is not pleasing to my eye.






Hmmm. Thinking back, I was comparing adverts to grafiti on this thread.

I was trying to compare, the graphiti messages of the 'god man' (sprayed on temporary surfaces) telling us that truth and beauty are within us, with, corporate adverts, telling us that we need to look outside ourselves to find satisfaction, or look a certain way to be beautiful, etc.

Perhaps this is again, a seperate issue?

Originally posted by venger
Defensive arn't we?

Well if you did the same, then I would call you a weirdo also.

For the record, I am an atheist.

If I started defacing the public arena with my own beliefs, I would regard myself as a weirdo.

Now that is polite as I can put it I am afraid.

Ah so it's becuase he does graffitti. Hear that THCAyle - Venger considers that your a weirdo.

Venger - I just wanted a defintion of why you call him a wreido and I'm glad to hear its not becuase he belives in God.

Just a question then if he placed the messages he is writing on public bilboards where he has paid for the privlage would he still be a wreido?

I know he would probaly be arrested for showing only one religious belief and therefore discriminatory. Did you know the giverment are thinking of bringing in a ban on saying Christianinty is the only way to be saved, this has been part of the Christian belief since its founding 2000 years ago.

Originally posted by 5_HATS
Well said THCAyle. Basically if you live in or near to a large city centre then you are going to see Graffiti.....standard. It has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years all over the world from cave paintings in Austalia and Spain to International Graffiti comps.

It is a form of expression and there is NO WAY that any of you will be able to stop it with lame arguments about how it does not look nice.

Yes it is illegal, but so is speeding in your car and how many of you on here have done that before (which I might add can be far more destructive to peoples lives). If you want really asthetically pleasing things to look at then move to the countryside and get away from the street culture that you find in EVERY large city throughout the world.

So because it's always happened we should just accept it? People have always killed other people too, should we accept that as well? Or should we try, as a society, to make things better?

Originally posted by Jamie

Grafiti:

I have not been arguing the rights and wrongs of grafiti (in general) on this thread, but I'll let you know what I think anyway.

I am not sure as to the legal status of it. Can someone clarify this for me please. I suspect it isn't legal.

Generally speaking, neither do not think it is apropriate, fair or right, but then, this would depend on what and where it is.

I do agree with you in that, in some cases it does look quite ugly and harsh on the eye. Equally, in some cases, it may be a work of art and considered quite beautiful by some. I would have to consider each instance of 'street art' / graphiti on it's own merit. In most cases, graphiti is not pleasing to my eye.



Personally, I've yet to see a piece of graffiti that I find aesthetically pleasing. However, that's personal preference and largely irrelevant. For me the biggest issue is that people like THCAyle think they have a divine right to paint on people's/business'/council property simply because THEY like it and THEY think everyone else should be made to look at it. It's the complete lack of consideration and respect for other people and their property that astounds me.

Originally posted by 5_HATS
Well said THCAyle. Basically if you live in or near to a large city centre then you are going to see Graffiti.....standard. It has been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years all over the world from cave paintings in Austalia and Spain to International Graffiti comps.

It is a form of expression and there is NO WAY that any of you will be able to stop it with lame arguments about how it does not look nice.

Yes it is illegal, but so is speeding in your car and how many of you on here have done that before (which I might add can be far more destructive to peoples lives). If you want really asthetically pleasing things to look at then move to the countryside and get away from the street culture that you find in EVERY large city throughout the world.

I do not break the law, I also considering a career in Law (Prison Officer), I have a clean record including driving.

If you would read my posts I respect local laws and also on other threads I have expressed my views on speeding.

Wheather it is part of the culture or not it is still illegal and therefore should not happen. The international comp you mentioned was it done in a legal manner? If so that is one way THCAyle can express himself in the same way Tony Hawks can enter the X-Games instead of ruining private property gringing his board on benches etc.

Originally posted by jubby
Did you know the giverment are thinking of bringing in a ban on saying Christianinty is the only way to be saved, this has been part of the Christian belief since its founding 2000 years ago.

GOOD!!

If people want to be 'saved' then this is fine but what about the way many christians look down their noses at people who according to them are sinners and need to be saved when they don't. Drives me effing mad

To put it simply the moral high ground that many religions take is what is making this country more and more secular.

- I have taken drugs recreationally

- I have sex out of wedlock

- I have blasphemed (sp)

does this make me a bad person............................NO!!!!?? I hold down a full time job, have a wonderfull girlfriend, and am generally happy so I DON'T WANT TO BE SAVED by some moralistic, old fashioned religious nut who thinks that just because we don't follow the bible word for word that we are sinners and are going to hell. I would rather enjoy my life the way I want to and have been doing and go to 'hell' than become religious and guarentee my place in 'heaven' :mad:

Originally posted by 5_HATS
GOOD!!

If people want to be 'saved' then this is fine but what about the way many christians look down their noses at people who according to them are sinners and need to be saved when they don't. Drives me effing mad

To put it simply the moral high ground that many religions take is what is making this country more and more secular.

- I have taken drugs recreationally

- I have sex out of wedlock

- I have blasphemed (sp)

does this make me a bad person............................NO!!!!?? I hold down a full time job, have a wonderfull girlfriend, and am generally happy so I DON'T WANT TO BE SAVED by some moralistic, old fashioned religious nut who thinks that just because we don't follow the bible word for word that we are sinners and are going to hell. I would rather enjoy my life the way I want to and have been doing and go to 'hell' than become religious and guarentee my place in 'heaven' :mad:

So should someone be killed because they belive in God?

I am not old fashioned, or a nut. I was told off by an old lady on the bus the other week for playing "devil rock music" The music I was listening to was Rock Worship music by Hillsong Aus.
I believe that by following the teaching of Christ, I become a better person and I will live forever in paridise after my death. Becuase of this belive the goverment are trying to put stops on the way my church preaches the word of God.

In Aus. they have a law that is similar to the one the UK goverment want to bring in that prevents someone saying things like "Christ died for our sins" "Christ is One as God" etc if none christians are in attendence. I would assume that you yourself would not go into a church and stop someone preaching becuase it is against your beliefs you would probaly not go. The new law would mean that if a muslim attends a church service they could procesute the preacher for preaching!!!:loopy: I would never think of going into a mouqse and procecute a muslim cleric for preaching unless what he is preaching was condemming me to death for being a christian.

The blessing of Charles and Cammie would be illegal under the proposed lesigilation and would def. not be allowed to be transmitted. I personaly didn't watch anyway as don't belive he should have been blessed as he is a self confessed adultarer.

Who gives a shiney 5hite about Charles and Cammilla? If they wanna get married that is their business.
Do you think Charles is going to hell then for committing adultery.
Do you also think the word was made in seven days, is only a few thousand years old and that dinosaur fossils were put on the earth by God to test 'our faith'.

LMAO @ Rock worship music......talk about happy clappy :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Each to their own. Tolerance. I'm with Jubby on this one but would never pressure my beliefs on anyone else. 'Judge not, that ye not be judged?'

Christians should be free to practice their religion like people of other faiths should be allowed to. The Christians I know aren't being Christians simply to slag everybody else off. In my case, I'm one for hopefully bettering myself. (Grammar?)

It's that inner peace I'm after and I know for sure I'm on the right tracks. But no way will I insist everyone should come join me - that's the individual's choice.

Originally posted by 5_HATS
Who gives a shiney 5hite about Charles and Cammilla? If they wanna get married that is their business.
Do you think Charles is going to hell then for committing adultery.
Do you also think the word was made in seven days, is only a few thousand years old and that dinosaur fossils were put on the earth by God to test 'our faith'.

LMAO @ Rock worship music......talk about happy clappy :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I belive that Charles and his adultrious bride will not go to Heaven and live in the revived world after amergeddon. It is there business what I said was the fact that the blessing was in a church would be illegal and would not be allowed to be broadcast, if new legilastion was brought in. I didn't watch it but lots of people did.

I belive that God created the whole world including the dinosaurs they just didn't exist in Eden. It doesn't specify how long A&E were in Eden. The science world can't decide what killed the dinosaurs so maybe God did??? See previous post about world reknowed scientist changeing viewpoint on Creation!!!!

I know I'm not a happy clapper I'm a happy Mosher...I can tell you not heard the music I listen to - Songs of Praise it ain't...

Originally posted by 5_HATS
Who gives a shiney 5hite about Charles and Cammilla? If they wanna get married that is their business.
Do you think Charles is going to hell then for committing adultery.
Do you also think the word was made in seven days, is only a few thousand years old and that dinosaur fossils were put on the earth by God to test 'our faith'.

LMAO @ Rock worship music......talk about happy clappy :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

PS please can people stop swearing on here some people find it offensive.

i dont think its anything serious i just thought it was some crazy hippys or something

this thread has sorta got old