Here's another "It's worth a try old boy .... but......", story.

Telegraph Online today
A school caretaker who was injured falling off a six-foot stepladder is suing his employer for £50,000 claiming he was not trained how to use it properly.

Anthony Gower-Smith says his bosses did not show him how to use the 6ft ladder safely, although he admits using others for at least 30 years without mishap.

Mr Gower-Smith, 73, fell while removing a card display and staples from a wall in the gym at Awbridge Primary School near Romsey, Hampshire, in January 2004.


Plus:-

same source
Mr Gower-Smith, a former garage proprietor, is suing Hampshire County Council for liability, claiming they did not tell him how to properly use a stepladder.

He is claiming damages of at least £15,000 pounds and up to £50,000 pounds. The council denies negligence.

Plus:-

same source
Mr Gower-Smith told the court he had signed a form to say he had received "ladder training" but said this only consisted of being warned not to stand on the top platform or work at higher than three metres off the ground.

"I thought that was the extent of ladder training," he told the court. "I didn't know there were other things regarding ladders."

Plus:-

same source
Mr Gower-Smith told the court he had signed a form to say he had received "ladder training" but said this only consisted of being warned not to stand on the top platform or work at higher than three metres off the ground.

"I thought that was the extent of ladder training," he told the court. "I didn't know there were other things regarding ladders."

Plus:-

same source
He denied that Mrs Higgins had given him other safety advice such as placing the ladder at right angles to the wall being worked on. The court heard that the ladder was placed side on to the wall, potentially making it more unstable, when he fell off.

Plus:- :):)

same source
Mr Gower-Smith denied he was standing on the top platform when he fell but the court heard that he told police officers called to the incident that he had been standing on the top and had blamed himself.

"I don't remember what I said," he told the court. "I was dazed. But I wasn't on the top step because I had no need to go to the top step.

"I was in and out of consciousness. I was blaming myself for coming off the ladder.

Not until afterwards did I think about it."


Plus:- Now for the coup-de-grace :hihi:

same source
Mr Recorder Christopher Moger QC asked Mr Gower-Smith if he had a stepladder at home. He said he had.


My bold highlighted lettering.

You're right .... it's time I got a life! :hihi:

Link to article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2139036/Caretaker-who-fell-off-stepladder-sues-for-and16350%2C000-over-'inadequate-training'.html)

what next ? a drunk falling off the wagon decides to sue ? ;)

A picture of him here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1026791/Caretaker-sues-school-50-000-fall-trained-use-stepladder.html

It's amazing how he'd been using them for over 30 years but fell off this particular one because he hadn't had training!

Yet another person trying to blame someone else for their own mistakes.

Health and Safety is a individual requirement, if the caretaker had asked for training but been refused then I can see how this would technically go to court but if he just used it without thought then its his own fault.

That’s my understanding of H&S laws.

Daily Mail, there's a surprise.

By a weird coincidence, did you know that "The School Caretaker, a stepladder, and a £50,000 court claim" was CS Lewis' original working title for the book that became "The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe" but was rejected as it wouldn't fit on the book cover?

By a weird coincidence, did you know that "The School Caretaker, a stepladder, and a £50,000 court claim" was CS Lewis' original working title for the book that became "The Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe" but was rejected as it wouldn't fit on the book cover?

Sssshhuuussshhh, Basil. :o

Not everybody knows that! ;)

He hasn't won the case as yet, let's see what happens first.

Maybe I am of a dying breed but I hope some people out there would agree... But wouldn't you feel embarassed to actually stand in a court and state that you don't know how to use a ladder?

Maybe I am of a dying breed but I hope some people out there would agree... But wouldn't you feel embarassed to actually stand in a court and state that you don't know how to use a ladder?Not for fifty grand.

Daily Mail, there's a surprise.

Is that directed at 'shoeshine' or the story?

You can find the same story in virtually every paper, the BBC & ITN.

I blame immigrant step ladders.

I used my step ladders the other day I dont get on with my real ladders

Is that directed at 'shoeshine' or the story?

You can find the same story in virtually every paper, the BBC & ITN.

"deedar" is still reading the Beano, with help. ;)

I used my step ladders the other day I dont get on with my real ladders

:hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi:

:hihi::hihi::hihi::hihi:

It's posters with the exquisite wit of "daftlad" that makes it worthwhile being an SF Member, isn't it CHUSTY? :hihi:

Do you reckon that the Accident claims sue your granny for her toast crust group used this man for likeness in their money grubbing advert "My firm gave me the wrong type of of ladders while I was fitting an alarm and I broke both my arses ..... I successfully claimed £7500"?

This is why insurances are high, pay rises are low and if you have an accident at work you will probably face a dicipline for failing to ensure your own health and safety or even sacked, the good old 'where theres a blame theres a claim' culture, the only people to win are the solicitors, if someone falls in the street and you pick them up, you could be sued for incorrect handling, I think the world has gone mad, too many do gooders in todays society, does anyone actually care anymore?

This is why insurances are high, pay rises are low and if you have an accident at work you will probably face a dicipline for failing to ensure your own health and safety or even sacked, the good old 'where theres a blame theres a claim' culture, the only people to win are the solicitors, if someone falls in the street and you pick them up, you could be sued for incorrect handling, I think the world has gone mad, too many do gooders in todays society, does anyone actually care anymore?

No...........

This is why insurances are high, pay rises are low and if you have an accident at work you will probably face a dicipline for failing to ensure your own health and safety or even sacked, the good old 'where theres a blame theres a claim' culture, the only people to win are the solicitors, if someone falls in the street and you pick them up, you could be sued for incorrect handling, I think the world has gone mad, too many do gooders in todays society, does anyone actually care anymore?

The Queen does.

does anyone actually care anymore?

I do, I care about me.

It's posters with the exquisite wit of "daftlad" that makes it worthwhile being an SF Member, isn't it CHUSTY? :hihi:

Thank you for your kind comment Chusty, I try my best to amuse where possible

I use a step ladder at work very similar to the one in the picture and the same height. The ceilings are so high I have to stand on the very top platform and there is nothing to hold onto. Often I am in a building on my own and I haven't had any training. So what would happen if I fell off? I know what would happen, let me guess, people wouldn't have any sympathy and would make silly comments.

Maybe I am of a dying breed but I hope some people out there would agree... But wouldn't you feel embarassed to actually stand in a court and state that you don't know how to use a ladder?

There is a right and a wrong way and everyone I see does it wrong. I won't tell you how it should be done, instead I will let you tell me, if for example you were putting a notice board up, describe to me how and where you would place the step-ladder in relation to the wall. Thanks.

Thank you for your kind comment Chusty, I try my best to amuse where possible

Me and Shoeshine appreciate it. I myself can never think up witty remarks but I love humour as long as it`s not cruel.

I use a step ladder at work very similar to the one in the picture and the same height. The ceilings are so high I have to stand on the very top platform and there is nothing to hold onto. Often I am in a building on my own and I haven't had any training. So what would happen if I fell off? I know what would happen, let me guess, people wouldn't have any sympathy and would make silly comments.

You could always pray to God on the way to the floor asking him for a soft landing. ;)

He'd recommend "Solicitors are us".

Ergo, problem solved! ;)

You could always pray to God on the way to the floor asking him for a soft landing. ;)

He'd recommend "Solicitors are us".

Ergo, problem solved! ;)

That is the sort of thing a numpty would say.

You could always pray to God on the way to the floor asking him for a soft landing. ;)

He'd recommend "Solicitors are us".

Ergo, problem solved! ;)

You're a numpty for saying that, Shoey, but I think it's as funny as daftlad's real ladder/step ladder quip :hihi:

That is the sort of thing a numpty would say.

OK, Grahame ;)

I admit it. I'm a rumpty, pumpty numpty ! :o ;)

That is the sort of thing a numpty would say.

if shoeshine fell off a ladder would it be numpty dumpty had a great fall?

if shoeshine fell off a ladder would it be numpty dumpty had a great fall?

Careful! Yer'll trip over yer tongue if yer not careful. ;)

Just read on BBC teletext that the caretaker has won his case! He has proved Hampshire council were 75% to blame. Compensation is still to be decided.

He needs a severe beating. He is what is wrong with this country, people need to be held responsible for their actions. everything is weighted towards someone else always being at fault for things that are clearly caused as a result of our own actions.

He needs a severe beating. He is what is wrong with this country, people need to be held responsible for their actions. everything is weighted towards someone else always being at fault for things that are clearly caused as a result of our own actions.He is just being an opportunist because the pathetic legal system lets people who won't take responsibilty for their own stupidity blame other people. I can't help but notice that the organisations who routinely lose these cases are public bodies funded by the taxpayer.

I can't believe he's won anything!

How about if you are asked to do a job that you haven't been trained for?

How about if you are asked to do a job that you haven't been trained for?

That's different, but just because you haven't had training doesn't mean you can leave the common sense at home. If someone said 'ascend this rickety ladder' do you think 'must be fine, I'd receive training if it were not 100% safe' or do you think, 'yeah, I'll give it a miss cheers'.

If you have had some sort of brain\rock transplant then you climb the ladder and blame everyone else when you fall off.

surely caretakers have to take a health and safety course, all the building trades have to take one, why would a care taker be any different

Imagine a hypothetical situation where a school caretaker is changing a florescent tube. He hasn't had any training on it and neither has he had any ladder training. What is he to do bearing in mind it is in his job description? Also who is responsible if he has an accident would it be the school, the council for not training him, the person who asked him, bearing in mind it is part of his duties. So what should he have done?

If it was in his job description when he applied for the job then that should have been sorted out before he took the post. If it was added to his job description then his employer should provide the training to reflect his responsibilities.

They have said that the fact that he failed to position the steps properly, shows that his training was inadequate!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7477461.stm

So, if I crash the car, my instructor is to blame?

They have said that the fact that he failed to position the steps properly, shows that his training was inadequate!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7477461.stm

So, if I crash the car, my instructor is to blame?

Works for me, I'm off to set fire to the house and sue my mum for incorrect training on matches when I was younger.

Have a look here

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg402.pdf

at 2a and 2b.

When the ladder is sideways on to the wall (2a) the stability is much less than when the steps are facing the wall and that is how it should be.

Having the ladders incorrectly placed in order of magnitude would be like you driving on the right hand side of the road and yes if your driving instructor told you to do that he would be at fault, as it was the caretaker did not receive training and I imagine the council would be guilty of negligence.

If he'd fell off his ladder at home, (he often used one there) would he have sued himself?

Anyway, being 69 when he started the job and 71 when he took a dive off one it shows me he should have stuck to growing vegetables in his allotment, not climbing up ladders/caretaking.


I'm amazed the Authorities employed him anyway, at that age.

A younger person in need of employment should have been given that job!

....... as it was the caretaker did not receive training ...........

Since when?

He had recieved training and had signed to acknowledge this.

Have a look here

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg402.pdf

at 2a and 2b.

When the ladder is sideways on to the wall (2a) the stability is much less than when the steps are facing the wall and that is how it should be.

Having the ladders incorrectly placed in order of magnitude would be like you driving on the right hand side of the road and yes if your driving instructor told you to do that he would be at fault, as it was the caretaker did not receive training and I imagine the council would be guilty of negligence.

Thanks Grahame. I've been waiting days (to no avail) for you/someone to answer your query ........ and get approval from you as to the answer ..... about the correct use of a ladder in an earlier post on this thread.

Since when?

He had recieved training and had signed to acknowledge this.

Right. His training was inadequate. Well, what do you say? They seem to have acknowledged that it was?

I have just been reading about it again and it says he stood on the top platform, well if he had to do that then the ladder can't have been high enough can it?

Right. His training was inadequate. Well, what do you say? They seem to have acknowledged that it was?

Did God mention anything in his 'book' about Health and Safety regulations, falling off of a ladder due to gross stupidity or claiming compensation due to pure greed ?

Also it says, "The authority said Mr Gower-Smith signed an induction training sheet in 2002 on starting the job to show he had received training to use stepladders."

If he signed the sheet at his induction then he would have received training perhaps from a previous company and not the council, so perhaps the council were negligent in not sending him on a refresher course, or at least his supervisor just watching him at work to make sure he was doing it right?

Right. His training was inadequate. Well, what do you say? They seem to have acknowledged that it was?

The only claimed evidence of inadequacy is that he had an accident.

Driving instructor tells me to drive on the left.
I pass test and later drive on the right and crash.
Because he obviously didn't tell me clearly enough?


I have just been reading about it again and it says he stood on the top platform, well if he had to do that then the ladder can't have been high enough can it?

His training told him not to use equipment that was unsuitable and not to use suitable equipment in an unsafe manner.

Yes, I can see it from both sides. How about my last point about the council checking to make sure he was as safe as he said?

People do go on refresher courses and guidelines do change?

Do the council not have a responsibility to check their staff are safe?

Also it says, "The authority said Mr Gower-Smith signed an induction training sheet in 2002 on starting the job to show he had received training to use stepladders."

If he signed the sheet at his induction then he would have received training perhaps from a previous company and not the council, so perhaps the council were negligent in not sending him on a refresher course, or at least his supervisor just watching him at work to make sure he was doing it right?

Perhaps he may have told his employers that he was "familiar" with, and "used to" using step-ladders" at his interview. Who knows?

After all, he was quoted as being "au fait" with, and using stepladders at home for years. :)

Perhaps he may have told his employers that he was "familiar" with, and "used to" using step-ladders" at his interview. Who knows?

After all, he was quoted as being "au fait" with, and using stepladders at home for years. :)

He said he just ticked the boxes, like you do.

Yes, I can see it from both sides. How about my last point about the council checking to make sure he was as safe as he said?

People do go on refresher courses and guidelines do change?

Going up a stepladder and using it safely is not rocket science, Grahame.

Anyone who's been up one has more sense than to place the side of the ladder to face the wall being worked on.

(See your previous post with a link)

Old folks with trembly knees and a lack of grey matter should not be employed/paid to use them.

He said he just ticked the boxes, like you do.

Oh Grahame! Keep posting that sort of post and it's bound to get someone a ban on SF!

Possibly me. :)

Yes, I can see it from both sides. How about my last point about the council checking to make sure he was as safe as he said?

People do go on refresher courses and guidelines do change?

Do the council not have a responsibility to check their staff are safe?

Yes, they do.

...... within reason.

Often the test of 'reasonable' is in the courts and, as in this case, will often lead to differences of opinion.

I know a large employer who has told its staff not to go more than three steps high. When asked what they should do if they needed to go higher the manager just said you will have to be careful. Now what sort of training is that?

Oh Grahame! Keep posting that sort of post and it's bound to get someone a ban on SF!

Possibly me. :)

I think you may have read the inflections incorrectly on that post.

I know a large employer who has told its staff not to go more than three steps high. When asked what they should do if they needed to go higher the manager just said you will have to be careful. Now what sort of training is that?

An employer has to concede he may well have employed a crew of "no brainers".

I think you may have read the inflections incorrectly on that post.

:hihi::hihi::hihi: