Is anyone else completely unconvinced that Iain Duncan Smith believes a word of his speech?

I've just listened to excerpts of his speech, and it's a dog. I though GWB was insincere, but IDS has raised it to an art form.

Don't politicians learn to do 'Sincere forehead, concerned eyebrows, masterful teeth" any more?

Not wanting to vote labour, the only realistic option would be the Tories, and they seem to be a bunch of gnashing maniacs (with the possible exceptions of davis and letwin). The lib dems are still championship fence sitters, and would probably all die of shock if elected to government.

This leaves me looking at the Green Party, the Natural Law party, The UKIP, The BNP and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Have I forgotten someone?

I am bemused by it all - still.

I cannot vote labour - can't do it!! But then the pain that I will suffer putting an X in the box for conservative is equal.

The lib dems though aparently happy to help your local heathen are not taken seriously - even less seriously than the rest.

Ho hum

Moon

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
The lib dems are still championship fence sitters, and would probably all die of shock if elected to government.
In addition, their policies are often badly thought through due to the fact they never have to worry about putting them to practice! However when I vote I tend to choose Lib Dems as it's slightly better than not voting at all!

I watched the Conservative Party Political Broardcast that was on just before the Simpson's yesterday and it was a complete joke. It kept on about how much Labour had stuffed up, how they'd raised taxes, how Blair had kept none of his promises, how they'd screwed up the education system, how they've messed up the hospitals etc etc etc. I was like, 'we all know Labour have screwed up, but what are you going to do better?' I think I'll be voting Lib-Dem.

Originally posted by Sidla
I watched the Conservative Party Political Broardcast that was on just before the Simpson's yesterday and it was a complete joke. It kept on about how much Labour had stuffed up, how they'd raised taxes, how Blair had kept none of his promises, how they'd screwed up the education system, how they've messed up the hospitals etc etc etc. I was like, 'we all know Labour have screwed up, but what are you going to do better?' I think I'll be voting Lib-Dem.

Which of Labour's screw ups do you want the lib-dems to reverse?

Extra nurses
Extra doctors
Extra police
Minimum wage
Pension credits
Euro referendum
Lowest unemployment since 1975?

I could go on but I may be accused of political bias. If you listen to the lib-dems you'll get a different promise for where-ever you are in the country. West country? We'll never join the Euro. London? We'll have a referendum and leave it to you to decide. North? We'll join the Euro as soon as possible to help manufacturing industry. Get real.

Who's that tory politician with the really blonde hair, he's really posh LOL yeah that narrows it down, he was on Parkinson the other day.

Oh it's bugging me I can't think of his name but he's seriously very very funny and does actually seem a nice chap, I think he should replace IDS purely for the fact he has a personality.

Boris Johnson that's his name! It was driving me mad. Perhaps I am crazy but he sort of seems ok, quite a good sense of humour and pretty nice cnsidering he's a posh twit.

Originally posted by max
Which of Labour's screw ups do you want the lib-dems to reverse?

Extra nurses
Extra doctors
Extra police
Minimum wage
Pension credits
Euro referendum
Lowest unemployment since 1975?
There may be extra doctors, nurse and police but I don't notice much difference in the NHS and I think crime is much, much worse.

Labour have promised a Euro referendum - wow!:wow:

Pension credits? Pensioners don't seem to think much of them and nor do I! Even the Tories have promised to link pensions to average wages again, so their policies are now more "silver" friendly than Labour.

... and the cost of these "achievements"? Taxes, taxes and more bloody taxes. I beleive it's something like 60 stealth taxes introduced since Labour came to power.

Oh, and let's not forget the billions spent killing people in Iraq in order to protect us from Saddam's WMD... whoops, I forgot - there weren't any!! Oh well at least the threat from terrorism will be less. What's that? Even the "intellegence" services think the threat is much greater now? Oh well, everyone's allowed one little mistake.

Labour are crap, nuff' said.

I'll be voting Tory in May for sure, but I dont think IDS is a good enough leader... Chris Patton should step forward! hes one of the most honest polititions full stop and a sure vote winner.

I'd vote Lib Dem but they are Pro-Euro something im strongly against.

Originally posted by max
Which of Labour's screw ups do you want the lib-dems to reverse?

Extra nurses - Still record waiting lists, and they are busier than ever, the only extra nurses are ones "imported" from spain/france, extra low pay as well.
Extra doctors - same goes for doctors, overworked and underpaid
Extra police - Crime is up, i see no effects with extra police other than a stealth tax on drivers.
Minimum wage - A fairly good idea, if you are over 21 :/
Pension credits - Dont make me laugh :lol: Pensioners deserve alot more respect than "pension credits"
Euro referendum - Big wow, imagine the outcry if they'd changed it WITHOUT one.
Lowest unemployment since 1975? - Highest Employment of spin doctors and figure distorters since 1975

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Is anyone else completely unconvinced that Iain Duncan Smith believes a word of his speech?

I've just listened to excerpts of his speech, and it's a dog. I though GWB was insincere, but IDS has raised it to an art form.

Don't politicians learn to do 'Sincere forehead, concerned eyebrows, masterful teeth" any more?

Not wanting to vote labour, the only realistic option would be the Tories, and they seem to be a bunch of gnashing maniacs (with the possible exceptions of davis and letwin). The lib dems are still championship fence sitters, and would probably all die of shock if elected to government.

This leaves me looking at the Green Party, the Natural Law party, The UKIP, The BNP and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

Have I forgotten someone?

Have you forgotton what the Tories did to us during fourteen miserable years? If you want more of that then vote Tory, as for me ,thanks but no thanks!!!

I listened to the whole speech on 5 live.

Absolutely brilliant, best hours entertainment that I have had for ages.

I just couldn't stop laughing at the tit.:loopy:

BTW I don't vote Tory never have, never will. Ever.
So I might be a little biased.

Make your vote count and vote green

Like this little fellow

:mrgreen:

Originally posted by Abby
Make your vote count and vote green

Like this little fellow

:mrgreen:

roflmao

Originally posted by Abby
Make your vote count and vote green

Like this little fellow

:mrgreen:

I care for the environment, am in Greenpeace, do my bit for recycling etc etc but a party needs more policies than just environmental ones. What do the Greens think about the health service, crime and immigation?

Lets pray to god we never get the tories back in. This goverment might not be the greatest but i remember the last tory goverment all 18 years when they got rid of the steel industry the coal industry and they flogged the railways off to mickey mouse and company.

Originally posted by max
Which of Labour's screw ups do you want the lib-dems to reverse?

Extra nurses
Extra doctors
Extra police
Minimum wage
Pension credits
Euro referendum
Lowest unemployment since 1975?

I could go on but I may be accused of political bias. If you listen to the lib-dems you'll get a different promise for where-ever you are in the country. West country? We'll never join the Euro. London? We'll have a referendum and leave it to you to decide. North? We'll join the Euro as soon as possible to help manufacturing industry. Get real.


Extra doctors and nurses? Waiting times have risen in many hospitals and since labour have been in power, more people than ever have been turning to private health care. The NHS also does a bad job at attracting people to these jobs so has to import them from other countries.

Extra police? Shame about the exponential rise in gun crime in every year since 1997 then. Lets not forget that crime is a big problem, yet sentences are being cut shorter and we have more and more crime. Also, for every extra policePERSON recruited, 2 administrators are also recruited. IDS pledges 40,000 more police if elected.

Minimum wage? Why do you think so many companies are turning to out sourcing to other countries, such as India? The minimum wage has made sure that staff costs in the UK are higher than the total costs involved in outsourcing to other countries. In the short term, it was good as lower paid workers now had a guaranteed minimum. However, as it has been shown, it has led to these very people being made redundant as more and more companies outsource to cut such costs.

Pension credits? This simply penalises people who choose to save up during their working life. Those who have lived on credit all of their life will get more when they retire, whilst those who have been careful and prudent are not rewarded. Where is the sense in that? There needs to be an incentive to save, especially with borrowing figures spiralling out of control.


Euro referendum - mmm. When will that be happening then Tony?


Lowest unemployment since 1975 - using dressed up figures yes. The fact is, an increasing proportion of those employed are in low paid service industries and often work part time. Student numbers are increasing, an increasingly higher portion of which won't benefit from University, but being students, won't effect the employment stats.


Lets look at some real labour effects:
- 60 increases in tax in just 6 years
- Higher spending on public services, yet no visible improvements.
- Wasted billions on bureaucracy. Eg. The cost of running Whitehall departments has risen by nearly 50 per cent since 1997, an increase of £6.7 billion.
- Increasing crime rates
- Top up fees for students.

Originally posted by MARTINO 1
Lets pray to god we never get the tories back in. This goverment might not be the greatest but i remember the last tory goverment all 18 years when they got rid of the steel industry the coal industry and they flogged the railways off to mickey mouse and company.

Exactly! I'm sick of the existing govt too, but I'm concerned when I see the youth of today, such as t020 and RPG, prepared to vote Tory.

Are they simply too young to remember the days of Thatcher?

FYI, I had the worst of both worlds - educated under a low spending Tory govt; employed under a high taxing Labour govt - no sarcastic comments please!

oh dear. This was supposed to be do or die speech for IDS. They say that it was a good speech, I'm not convinced. He looked just as much wooden as he ever did IMO.

The three main parties are beginning to discover that, collectively, the people are more intelligent than they are - the same old rhetoric used for whipping up the conference hall into a sea of foaming spittle no longer has any resonance anywhere else.

Government in this country, as in many others, is largely preoccupied with winning the next term and all the lovely privileges that go with it. This short termist strategy is a feature of the system rather than the parties involved.

What can be done to fix this? Remove the priviliges in question? Lengthen the term of office? Offer the opportunity of recall, like California, and elect Hugh Grant into office? I don't know. Maybe ask King Charles to step in, usurp the throne and declare an absolute monarchy again. On second thoughts, maybe not.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Government in this country, as in many others, is largely preoccupied with winning the next term and all the lovely privileges that go with it. This short termist strategy is a feature of the system rather than the parties involved.



I'll concur with the above. It's their sole purpose and they will do whatever it takes to ensure re-elcection

None so fickle and none so thick as the British electorate. I have a feeling that the days of a New Labour unasailable majority are, in 18 months, about to end.

More than that I cannot envisage. This only if Blair steps down. If he refuses, then the gauntlet is down.

The 'sunburnt individuals' in the woodpile are the totally useless Lib Dems. The electorate will get what it deserves, nothing more, nothing less.

It's 50/50 on opinion whether Blair attends a service for the Iraq war dead. He should be forced to compile then read the sermon.

I wonder if the next party that gets elected/re-elected will be voted By more than 24% of the electorate.

Originally posted by max
Extra nurses
Extra doctors
Extra police
Minimum wage
Pension credits
Euro referendum
Lowest unemployment since 1975?

Extra:
debts for students
NI contributions
Pension fund taxation (leading to widespread closure of final salary schemes)
Warfare
Violent crime
Illegal immigrants
Civil servants (costing £6.7Bn)
Council tax
Red tape

Better the devil you know?
LibDems are political chameleons and pro Euro
The only way Blair could get elected first time was by committing to stick with Tory economic policies - what does that tell you about Tory economics?

Whichever way you vote you'll end up with politicians. I'd like to see more real people like that doctor in Kidderminster (?) who stood as an independent to save the local hospital and won.
Maybe we should follow the US lead and turn to the entertainment industry (Reagan, Schwarzenegger). I'd vote for Stephen Fry for PM. Any other suggestions? Rory Bremner?

Since when did IDS appointed himself to be jury of the Hutton inquiry?

Minimum wage? Why do you think so many companies are turning to out sourcing to other countries, such as India? The minimum wage has made sure that staff costs in the UK are higher than the total costs involved in outsourcing to other countries. In the short term, it was good as lower paid workers now had a guaranteed minimum. However, as it has been shown, it has led to these very people being made redundant as more and more companies outsource to cut such costs.

Tell me how you going to outsource a cleaner to clean an office in UK? You can't and yet it these people and many more that were victims of the underpaid.

Funny how the Tory was against the idea at first and now praising it. It is their intention to keep it.

I can remember a friend of mine was paid £1 an hour to man a radio for a cab firm. When it that low, you cannot justify it.

The computer industry are outsourcing, but it by no mean as a result of Minimum wage because they never did get paid that low.

Originally posted by John
Tell me how you going to outsource a cleaner to clean an office in UK? You can't and yet it these people and many more that were victims of the underpaid.

Funny how the Tory was against the idea at first and now praising it. It is their intention to keep it.

I can remember a friend of mine was paid £1 an hour to man a radio for a cab firm. When it that low, you cannot justify it.

The computer industry are outsourcing, but it by no mean as a result of Minimum wage because they never did get paid that low.

I'm referring mainly to the many call centres that are being outsourced abroad. The minimum wage also makes it more tempting for smaller companies, such as your local corner shop, to employ people under 18 simply because they won't have to pay them the minimum. Illegal immigrants are also used by dodgy businesses who want to pay low costs for staff.

Originally posted by Lickszz
oh dear. This was supposed to be do or die speech for IDS. They say that it was a good speech, I'm not convinced. He looked just as much wooden as he ever did IMO.


Surely the most important things to consider are the policies themselves, not how the presenter presents them. In BLiar, we have someone who is good at making speeches and comes across as someone who has a lot of 'charisma'. We know what this gets us - someone who is able to lie through their teeth and get away with it because he can act the part well with his so called 'charisma'. I don't like the false smiles and the acting. I'd rather a genuine and honest person with good policies to be the Prime Minister rather than someone who can lie well. Bye Bye BLiar.

Originally posted by Abby
Exactly! I'm sick of the existing govt too, but I'm concerned when I see the youth of today, such as t020 and RPG, prepared to vote Tory.

Are they simply too young to remember the days of Thatcher?

FYI, I had the worst of both worlds - educated under a low spending Tory govt; employed under a high taxing Labour govt - no sarcastic comments please!

before the torys we had labour as well, and they were just as crap then as they are now!

Anyway, the tory party isnt the same as it was in Thatchers time as PM, I seriously doubt they'd go back and do what she did.

Originally posted by t020
Surely the most important things to consider are the policies themselves, not how the presenter presents them. In BLiar, we have someone who is good at making speeches and comes across as someone who has a lot of 'charisma'. We know what this gets us - someone who is able to lie through their teeth and get away with it because he can act the part well with his so called 'charisma'. I don't like the false smiles and the acting. I'd rather a genuine and honest person with good policies to be the Prime Minister rather than someone who can lie well. Bye Bye BLiar.

Blair doesn't smile. He performs a facial function.

The trouble is the electorate are not going to put their faith in a guy who is so wooden as IDS. When he speaks it doesn't carry any conviction IMO. Lets face it, he is a poor front man. Labour are there for the taking if the tories get their manifesto sorted and leader.

Surely the point is that no party, whatever their complexion, can govern effectively from within the current system.

Being on a permanent campaign footing, as a party must be in order to stand a chance of election, is not a helpful frame of mind from which to govern.

What is required is a different system.