With the introduction of the smoking ban many pubs installed outside heated drinking areas. At some pubs large amounts of people are now drinking outside and some make a lot of noise.:rant::banana::partyhat:

Licensing hours have also been deregulated and so some pubs stay open far later. This obviously adds to the noise nuisance caused to local residents

Should more attention be paid to drinking outside pubs, particularly on pavements. Should hours be restricted so that outside areas closed at say 10.30?

I just read this article in the Telegraph http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/letters/If-you-don39t-want-noise.4148260.jp

It got me thinking about the problem, if it is a problem. I do not have an axe to grind on this. My problem is I have a half mile walk to the nearest pub, so this certainly does not affect me, but I can see it would affect others.

Opinions please. If there is interest I could add a poll.

Yes, and 10:30 is probably too late in residential areas.

We've already got laws in place to stop them making a lot of noise. Why bring in a new one to do exactly the same thing?

That letter in the Telegraph is hilarious. So OTT! The economy of Sheffield is going to collapse because the council won't allow some suburban pub to put up an awning? Yeah...OK...I'll have what he's drinking ;)

But the licensing people at the Town Hall deal with things like this already - changes to entertainments, additional drinking hours etc. Surely they have guidance that they work to anyway in regard to the use of beer gardens in residential areas? I know that any complaints received are looked at when licences are due for renewal or alteration.

As for the principle of it, I agree it's not fair to allow a noisy beer garden to stay open after about 9pm. Yes people knew there was a pub there when they moved house, but they didn't know the Government were going to turf out the smokers!

some people don't even go out until 9pm . this is like the people that live on the same street as a school and do nothing but moan and scowl at people in the morning for parking on the road to drop the kids off.

some people don't even go out until 9pm . this is like the people that live on the same street as a school and do nothing but moan and scowl at people in the morning for parking on the road to drop the kids off.

I rarely get out before 9.45 and enjoy a late night drink. However I am from a different generation to many of the youfs who sit outside shouting their heads off at 11.30.

There was a time when leaving a pub (usually after time) the landlord would ask you to be considerate to neighbours by not slamming car doors. Now that consideration seems to have evapourated and some feel it is fine to puke (or worse) in surrounding gardens.:gag:

some people don't even go out until 9pm . this is like the people that live on the same street as a school and do nothing but moan and scowl at people in the morning for parking on the road to drop the kids off.

They'd be welcome to drink and yell inside the pub just as before. Why should residential areas be ruined because of an ill-conceived law brought in by the Government?

They'd be welcome to drink and yell inside the pub just as before. Why should residential areas be ruined because of an ill-conceived law brought in by the Government?

The rights and wrongs of the smoking ban are not relevant to the thread. People are free to nip in and out of pubs for a fag if they wish. What the smoking ban has done is encourage landlords to make confortable outside drinking areas rather than simply a place where someone could have a fag.

At some pubs large numbers of folk now sit out in these "smoking" areas. Many do not even smoke. They will all sit out because one of their mates does. This is the main cause of the increase in noise nuisance.

A simple remedy certainly exists. It is to restrict glasses to inside areas after say 9pm in places where a pub is surrounded by residential areas. I think trying to get folk to keep the noise down is not an option when you mix booze with youth.

Some just cant stand to see others enjoying their selfs can they?
Get a life!!!!

or move . I wouldn't buy a house near a pub simply because you know exactly what you are going to get.

I think that heating in outside areas should be banned because if the harm to the environment. But the trouble comes when it is warm, not cold enough for heating, because that is when people go to sleep with their windows open.
Many times I go to bed before a rabble behind my local have finished shouting at each other and it is just utter pig ignorance.

The problem is not pubs or smoking ban, it is people who are lacking in any courtesy who do not realise or care that there are people nearby wishing to sleep. Ideally they should be made to leave the premises, but in my experience people who have complained get ignored, even by the police when they have made more serious complaints.

Some just cant stand to see others enjoying their selfs can they?
Get a life!!!!

Very true. I hate to see people enjoying themselves, so I sit outside pubs near their houses and make a row all night to make sure they don't

Lets further cripple a dwindling trade !!!

Leave the pubs alone, if they are causing a noise nuisance report it. if you feel lonely and left out, join in !

or move . I wouldn't buy a house near a pub simply because you know exactly what you are going to get.

Well quite.

Now that consideration seems to have evapourated and some feel it is fine to puke (or worse) in surrounding gardens.:gag:

What could be worse? i wouldnt rate wee'ing as bad as puking, surely you're not suggesting some people have a dump in surrounding gardens?

or move . I wouldn't buy a house near a pub simply because you know exactly what you are going to get.

You fail to ralise that anyone who bought their house more than about 10 years ago would have no idea that there would soon be people outside the pub after midnight every night of the week shouting at each other. Because drinking up time was 11pm and smokers practiced their habit inside.

I agree with you that people who have a house right next door to a pub have less right to complain because the pub has been there for a century or more, but nowadays this excessive noise can affect people within several hundred yards of the pub.

In my view, overall I still prefer things how they are now, pubs are ten times nicer now they are smoke free and without having to leave early because of a draconian drinking up time related to the first world war it is much more relaxed at the bar too.

What could be worse? i wouldnt rate wee'ing as bad as puking, surely you're not suggesting some people have a dump in surrounding gardens?

You obviously never frequented the Mojo.

You fail to ralise that anyone who bought their house more than about 10 years ago would have no idea that there would soon be people outside the pub after midnight every night of the week shouting at each other. Because drinking up time was 11pm and smokers practiced their habit inside.

I agree with you that people who have a house right next door to a pub have less right to complain because the pub has been there for a century or more, but nowadays this excessive noise can affect people within several hundred yards of the pub.

In my view, overall I still prefer things how they are now, pubs are ten times nicer now they are smoke free and without having to leave early because of a draconian drinking up time related to the first world war it is much more relaxed at the bar too.

30 years ago the pubs in Sheffield closed at 10.30 with just 10 minutes to sup up and sod off.

You fail to ralise that anyone who bought their house more than about 10 years ago would have no idea that there would soon be people outside the pub after midnight every night of the week shouting at each other. Because drinking up time was 11pm and smokers practiced their habit inside.

I agree with you that people who have a house right next door to a pub have less right to complain because the pub has been there for a century or more, but nowadays this excessive noise can affect people within several hundred yards of the pub.

In my view, overall I still prefer things how they are now, pubs are ten times nicer now they are smoke free and without having to leave early because of a draconian drinking up time related to the first world war it is much more relaxed at the bar too.


Also 10 years ago if you were upset by the noise from the pub next door you could ask people to quieten down without the chance being beaten up or knifed for your trouble.

Apply a little common sense here. Pubs need a license which enables alcohol to be consumed outside the premises. If the police receive repeated complaints then they have the right to object to the license when it comes up for renewal. It is not in the interest of the licensee to allow people to shout and yell outside. Why do people think more legislation is always the answer, not just correctly applying the existing legislation?!

The rights and wrongs of the smoking ban are not relevant to the thread. People are free to nip in and out of pubs for a fag if they wish. What the smoking ban has done is encourage landlords to make confortable outside drinking areas rather than simply a place where someone could have a fag.

At some pubs large numbers of folk now sit out in these "smoking" areas. Many do not even smoke. They will all sit out because one of their mates does. This is the main cause of the increase in noise nuisance.

A simple remedy certainly exists. It is to restrict glasses to inside areas after say 9pm in places where a pub is surrounded by residential areas. I think trying to get folk to keep the noise down is not an option when you mix booze with youth.

The comfortable outside areas were set up by landlords because they know that a huge proportion of their custom is from smokers. The ban is completely unjust and more than likely to hit publicans very severely if these areas are taken away.

It is up to the landlord in these circumstances to make sure their customers are not making a noise nuisance. Most actually will. To ban people from drinking in a beer garden after a certain time is extremely harsh. They have every right to be treated with respect. Making them go indoors especially if the pub is already full is very unfair.

I hate to judge or label people, but the kind of people I see hanging around outside the pub smoking are of a certain ilk, and the kind to be far louder and rougher and, dare I say it "antisocial" than those inside?

I guess the word I'm tiptoeing around is "common".

The comfortable outside areas were set up by landlords because they know that a huge proportion of their custom is from smokers. The ban is completely unjust and more than likely to hit publicans very severely if these areas are taken away.

Just to correct you a Small proportion. Such a tiny population of the city now smoke, I sometimes do not see anyone smoking for days now. Even all the oldies have packed in who had smoked for 40 or 50 years.

I hate to judge or label people, but the kind of people I see hanging around outside the pub smoking are of a certain ilk, and the kind to be far louder and rougher and, dare I say it "antisocial" than those inside?

I guess the word I'm tiptoeing around is "common".

I absolutely hate that word. It stinks to me of somebody believing they are somehow better than somebody else and really look down at people because their way of life is a little different to theirs.

I guess the word I am tiptoeing around is 'snob'.

Just to correct you a Small proportion. Such a tiny population of the city now smoke, I sometimes do not see anyone smoking for days now. Even all the oldies have packed in who had smoked for 40 or 50 years.

Maybe a small proportion of people but that does not equate to a small proportion of custom.

Maybe a small proportion of people but that does not equate to a small proportion of custom.

I bet that's true. I'm not a smoker (quit 19 months ago!) but used to drink more when I smoked. My friends who smoke drink more than the ones who don't. Not sure why that correlation seems to hold true among us but it does. The obvious parallel would be to say non-smokers are healthier thus less likely to drink to excess but (using my friends as a sample) this isn't true in all cases either!

I absolutely hate that word. It stinks to me of somebody believing they are somehow better than somebody else and really look down at people because their way of life is a little different to theirs.

I guess the word I am tiptoeing around is 'snob'.

Maybe I am a snob. But the smoking ban was to make drinking and the general quality of life better for everyone, but it hasn't worked. You have to suffer clouds of smoke to actually get IN to a pub. Half the time people block the doorway so you can't get in and look at you funny when you have to say "excuse me" to pass them.

Very true. I hate to see people enjoying themselves, so I sit outside pubs near their houses and make a row all night to make sure they don't
Anyone buying/renting a house near a pub get all they deserve.

Maybe I am a snob. But the smoking ban was to make drinking and the general quality of life better for everyone, but it hasn't worked. You have to suffer clouds of smoke to actually get IN to a pub. Half the time people block the doorway so you can't get in and look at you funny when you have to say "excuse me" to pass them.

The smoking ban was implemented in all working areas. As a pub has people working there it was included in the ban. It was not actually brought about to make drinkers quality of life any better. It was ill conceved and rushed through without a great deal of thought.

Incidently, there is one bar in the UK that you can smoke in. The House of Commons bar.

Maybe I am a snob. But the smoking ban was to make drinking and the general quality of life better for everyone, but it hasn't worked. You have to suffer clouds of smoke to actually get IN to a pub. Half the time people block the doorway so you can't get in and look at you funny when you have to say "excuse me" to pass them.

That is because the people blocking the doorway whilst having a fag are usually breaking the law.

Amazingly the majority of people responding to the poll currently want outside drinking to stop at 9pm. Quite what you guys were thinking when you chose to live next to a pub is beyond me.

I give exception to those who had circumstances thrust upon them, but suspect that that is a minority of people whose house is near a pub.

Amazingly the majority of people responding to the poll currently want outside drinking to stop at 9pm. Quite what you guys were thinking when you chose to live next to a pub is beyond me.

I give exception to those who had circumstances thrust upon them, but suspect that that is a minority of people whose house is near a pub.

What makes you think everyone who votes on this forum lives next to a pub?

I would put it down to consideration for others.

Not everyone drives a Citreon Saxo with a 5000 watt amplifier and feels the need to drive around with the windows open.

What makes you think everyone who votes on this forum lives next to a pub?

I would put it down to consideration for others.


If you don't live near a pub then what difference does it make to you?

Not everyone drives a Citreon Saxo with a 5000 watt amplifier and feels the need to drive around with the windows open.


Yeah, and not everyone who drinks outside of a pub makes a load of noise, so what's your point?

If you don't live near a pub then what difference does it make to you?

Consideration for others? Is it such an alien concept to you?

I think you have just proved exactly why such restrictions need to be implemented.

I can see a case for restrictions in residential areas especially late at night.

The smoking ban was implemented in all working areas. As a pub has people working there it was included in the ban. It was not actually brought about to make drinkers quality of life any better. It was ill conceved and rushed through without a great deal of thought.

Incidently, there is one bar in the UK that you can smoke in. The House of Commons bar.

What you say is perfectly true. However it was not helped by smokers or pub landlords.
For years virtually no consideration was given to the non smoking majority. 90% of pubs had no provision or provided a broom cupboard as a non smoking room.

When the smoking ban was proposed it was to have had several exceptions, but I suspect that the lack of action to provide any clean air without legislation was instrumental in forcing through the blanket ban.

We are now faced with a situation where noise is becoming a nuisance. If landlords act responsibly and impose their own restrictions where problem exist the situation will be under control and require no intervention. However if no one reacts to the complaints there will likely be an over reaction by politicians who see anti social drinkers as a potential vote winner... and at the moment we have a government desperate to gain a little support

Consideration for others? Is it such an alien concept to you?

I think you have just proved exactly why such restrictions need to be implemented.

Jump to conclusions much do you?

I very rarely even go to pubs, so I'm certainly not your problem statistic displaying lack of consideration.

For frigs's sake, you can't say a thing on this forum without people leaping out (groundlessly in most cases) to disparage you.

If you actually read what I put, instead of bounding in and having a go at my lack of consideration, maybe you'll pick out my argument. Or maybe you won't. I couldn't care less.

Jump to conclusions much do you?

I very rarely even go to pubs, so I'm certainly not your problem statistic displaying lack of consideration.

For frigs's sake, you can't say a thing on this forum without people leaping out (groundlessly in most cases) to disparage you.

If you actually read what I put, instead of bounding in and having a go at my lack of consideration, maybe you'll pick out my argument. Or maybe you won't. I couldn't care less.

Who jumps to conclusions?

I read your postings which say everything I need to know to make a conclusion. Perhaps you should read back through your own postings.

You could perhaps start by reading this one of yours..
QUOTE "If you don't live near a pub then what difference does it make to you?"

With the introduction of the smoking ban many pubs installed outside heated drinking areas. At some pubs large amounts of people are now drinking outside and some make a lot of noise.:rant::banana::partyhat:

Licensing hours have also been deregulated and so some pubs stay open far later. This obviously adds to the noise nuisance caused to local residents

Should more attention be paid to drinking outside pubs, particularly on pavements. Should hours be restricted so that outside areas closed at say 10.30?

I just read this article in the Telegraph http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/letters/If-you-don39t-want-noise.4148260.jp

It got me thinking about the problem, if it is a problem. I do not have an axe to grind on this. My problem is I have a half mile walk to the nearest pub, so this certainly does not affect me, but I can see it would affect others.

Opinions please. If there is interest I could add a poll.

Forget Noise Pollution What about the pointless pollution and waste from these "outdoor" heaters? Why are they trying to heat up the outside! Especially in summer! IT's NOT MEANT TO BE HEATED UP It's Called the Natural Temperature! If people can't deal with it they shouldn't sit outside!

Those pointless things ought to be banned!

Perhaps if we just banned going to pubs inside and out and all other forms of entertainment, for fear of people actually enjoying themselves for a change, atleast the miserable kill joys, who seem to find something wrong with anything fun, would have a smile on their faces.

i'm firmly in the "you shouldn't move near a pub if you don't want to be near one" camp. it's like the folks who've moved near Heathrow and are up in arms because, shock of shocks, there might be some more plane noise - their viewpoint should be quickly dismissed.
perhaps the situation could be addressed by those outside being a bit more courteous, but even a small amount of noise travels a long way. A legally enforced curfew isn't the answer. i'd certainly want my police chasing criminals at night rather than chatterboxes.

Forget Noise Pollution What about the pointless pollution and waste from these "outdoor" heaters? Why are they trying to heat up the outside! Especially in summer! IT's NOT MEANT TO BE HEATED UP It's Called the Natural Temperature! If people can't deal with it they shouldn't sit outside!

Those pointless things ought to be banned!

It could happen if folk just bury their heads in the sand like they did with indoor smoking.

check this out

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-470638/Save-world--ban-patio-heaters.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7219565.stm

My mum and dads house is a couple of hundred yards from a pub. I lived in that house my whole life till i finally flew the coop and there was very little hassle from it. You came to expect a raacket on bank holidays when bouncey castles and outdoor kareoke suddenly appeared but on the whole fairly ok. You very rarely got woken up by the pub goers. Since the introduction of a combo of the late licencing and smoking ban its horrendous (and lets just say i'm not entirely convinced the landlord is doing things entirely properly anyway....). People sit outside rat arsed till well after 1 in the morn screaming and shouting and swearing and then trundle of home puking in your garden, having a punch up/domestic outside your house and leaving a trail of debris all up the street. My mum even watched some rowdy lads legging it from the pub garden at one in the morn (they'd woke her up) to a car outside their house, spread some white powder out in lines on the car and snort it (wonder what they were up to eh?). They then legged it back. I thought they were having a touch of the victor meldrews with their increasing age and all but on the few nights i've stayed over there recently i've been woken up several times by the racket and i can sleep through most things! Its rubbish - def could do with time restrictions at least in strictly residential areas like that is

My mum and dads house is a couple of hundred yards from a pub. I lived in that house my whole life till i finally flew the coop and there was very little hassle from it. You came to expect a raacket on bank holidays when bouncey castles and outdoor kareoke suddenly appeared but on the whole fairly ok. You very rarely got woken up by the pub goers. Since the introduction of a combo of the late licencing and smoking ban its horrendous (and lets just say i'm not entirely convinced the landlord is doing things entirely properly anyway....). People sit outside rat arsed till well after 1 in the morn screaming and shouting and swearing and then trundle of home puking in your garden, having a punch up/domestic outside your house and leaving a trail of debris all up the street. My mum even watched some rowdy lads legging it from the pub garden at one in the morn (they'd woke her up) to a car outside their house, spread some white powder out in lines on the car and snort it (wonder what they were up to eh?). They then legged it back. I thought they were having a touch of the victor meldrews with their increasing age and all but on the few nights i've stayed over there recently i've been woken up several times by the racket and i can sleep through most things! Its rubbish - def could do with time restrictions at least in strictly residential areas like that is

A sad case indeed.

You will note that the poll is only about pubs in residential areas. I don't think anyone has a problem with pubs where the noise causes no nuisance to local residents.

I also feel that it is important for action to be taken to reduce the problem in these areas. If something is not done we can perhaps expect a blanket ban being imposed as was the case with smoking.

It's getting a bit boring reading the same old same old responses that basically say "you chose to live there...blah, blah, blah". Yes, everyone knows that! But people didn't choose for the Government to impose a smoking ban that forces punters outside and then extended drinking hours on top of that too. If people bought houses on the basis that things *might* happen in future to ruin their lives then nobody would buy a ruddy house! :roll:

I am fortunate that the pub I work at is nowhere near any houses, so noise is never a problem.
How would you possibly police this new law? Bar staff and landlords would simply not have time to keep tabs on everyone, and employing more staff to do so puts even more strain on a struggling industry. For some smokers, it would mean leaving early, since they cannot go outside for a smoke after a certain time.

In my mum and dads case they didn't chose tolive near it. They bought the house brand new when they got married thirty odd years ago and the pub didn't exist - it was a field!!! The pub was built about 20 yrs ago but its only been a problem in the last year or two.

The government will introduce legislation because they are neo-puritans, anything that gives the common man pleasure is frowned upon, they tinker, small laws for a small government they are so far removed from the common man they dont know whats happening.

Two pubs a day on average are going out of business in this country, blame whatever you like smoking ban, cheap supermarket booze, rising prices, whatever the reason a part of British culture is being erroded and before anyone tries to say that shouting is not britsh culture your right it isn't but freedom of expression and freedom of speech is, if someone wants to shout their heads off then they have that right. just as much right as some god botherer has the right to stand in our town and city centres shouting that the end is coming and all none believers will be cast into a mythical firey pit. We may not agree with it but to protect the few freedoms left in this country from the many that this government has taken away we must say no more. No more minor legislation no more freedoms washed down the pan, If our parents and grand parents were as apathetic as we are now in 1939 we'd all be speaking german by now, well the ones of us still alive. During world war two, millions of brave men and women gave their lives to stop a dictator to fight for our freedoms, freedoms that some people are quite happy to have frittered away.

The Labour Party was set up as a party of the people, for the people, by the people

New Labour is a party of the money, for the money, by the money and the people "well they'll do whatever they're told to do" because we have become sheep.

So don't blame the man/woman shouting in a pub garden blame the people that put them there if the anti smoking law had a clause saying that publicans could have a smoking pub or a none smoking pub it would have been better but that would be common sense something severely lacking in our leaders (please feel free to put a B in front of that last word) smokers would have had places inside where they could smoke none smokers would have places they could go and the workers who work could have a choice if they wanted to work in a smoking pub they could apply for a job in one if not they could apply for a job in a none smoking one!

KJ Venom
It is so easy to rail against people who complain about antisocial behaviour, saying that they are putting pubs in danger.
This is not a fair point of view, we have had a couple of major changes to pub life in the last 3 years, and it will take a little time for people to get used to it.

By this I mean, people will get used to the noise, and Landlords and staff will get better at managing their patrons so they cause less disturbance to neighbours.

With the introduction of the smoking ban many pubs installed outside heated drinking areas. At some pubs large amounts of people are now drinking outside and some make a lot of noise.:rant::banana::partyhat:

Licensing hours have also been deregulated and so some pubs stay open far later. This obviously adds to the noise nuisance caused to local residents

Should more attention be paid to drinking outside pubs, particularly on pavements. Should hours be restricted so that outside areas closed at say 10.30?

Firstly, licensing hours have not been deregulated. They are just more flexible, and the hours are set by the local council. Pubs opening outside of their licensed hours are breaking the law.

Secondly, outside drinking areas must be licensed. They can (and do in Sheffield) have different opening times to the rest of the bar. This is normally to reduce noise to local residents (I believe there is a blanket ban of 11pm across the city centre so would expect it to be earlier in residential areas).

However, smoking is not a licensable activity (yet?), so areas which people smoke do not need to be licensed. This includes the pavement outside pubs. All the pubs has to do is ensure people are not taking alcohol with them. If people are causing a nusiance outside (noise) then this is not something which licensing can deal with.

If you closed all outside areas of pubs at 10.30pm, and enforced it even for non-licensed activities, the smokers would just go outside and sit on the nearest garden wall across from the pub, knowing full well there's nothing anyone can do about it.

If you have a problem with noise from a residential pub, go and talk to the landlord and discuss it with them.

If people are causing a nusiance outside (noise) then this is not something which licensing can deal with.


Oh, but it is. Pubs can quite easily have their licence renewal denied because of the antisocial/nuisance effect of their patrons.

Oh, but it is. Pubs can quite easily have their licence renewal denied because of the antisocial/nuisance effect of their patrons.

Very nice, but the only thing the authorities are interested in cracking down upon is blatent drugs taking. Another poster has frequently complained of excessive noise from a local pub which has gone on well into the night.

The police have visited this establishment, but they don't do anything and it did not make any difference to the behaviour of the pub management.

Apparently only one complaint can be considered at a time, so the licensing authorities seem to be far to overworked to keep a careful eye on troublesome establishments.

Fortunately that management moved on and took their late night/early morning lock-in discos with them.

KJ Venom
It is so easy to rail against people who complain about antisocial behaviour, saying that they are putting pubs in danger.
This is not a fair point of view, we have had a couple of major changes to pub life in the last 3 years, and it will take a little time for people to get used to it.

By this I mean, people will get used to the noise, and Landlords and staff will get better at managing their patrons so they cause less disturbance to neighbours.

But by the time people get used to it the only pubs open will be city centre bar the 'estate pub' which in many cases used to be the village pub before the urban sprawl engulfed these villages were the focal centres for the community.

As for anti social behaviour, i dont agree with the mindless youth standing on street corners swagging white cider or vodka and red bull but these people are more than likely over the legal age to drink and it does seem some people do like to complain for complaining sake.

It's a matter of choice if you or anyone doesn't like where they are living then you have the choice to move well until you move and dont like something at your new home then you can start complaining all over again!

But by the time people get used to it the only pubs open will be city centre bar the 'estate pub' which in many cases used to be the village pub before the urban sprawl engulfed these villages were the focal centres for the community.

Actually, in my view, around where I live it seems that all the local pubs are doing just fine, they are all quite busy and we have one more than we did a decade ago thanks to Wetherspoons. The difference I have noticed recently is people like me are less likely to venture into town, because I can drink for longer in my home district and the busses into town are excruciatingly expensive and considering I live close to the busy arterial road A61 unbelivably infrequent.

5 years ago I would be in town every friday and saturday night, nowadays, I go much less because it costs £3.60 for a bus to town and back from Woodseats and regularly they don't turn up. It is not much fun waiting at a bus stop for 45 minutes when there should be a bus every 15 minutes.