Here's my short story contribution for May

http://www.communitynet.org.uk/SFStoryArchive/1212155484.doc

I'd really appreciate your feedback and suggestions on how to improve it.

I can't issue advice in bettering the story, RB, but my mind's boggling about what may come next! :o :hihi:

Hi Ron.
Good story nicely constructed some good bits of descriptive inserts and had an easy flow to it, not quite sure of the end especially the last sentence, is this one of those that is left for the readers mind to conclude? I think you need to rework the ending.
Other than that great stuff.

Thanks Coyleys, I will have another look at the ending.

... but my mind's boggling about what may come next! :o :hihi:

I think a happy story, with a happy ending :)

RB,

What a great piece, with so much in it I don’t know where to start, so excuse me if I ramble on...

I should also say that I take my hat off to you for submitting something this month – I just couldn’t get my act together at all – so excuse me taking the coward’s way out by just discussing yours instead!

I’ve tried to separate topics under headings.

General comments

I thought your story was a really enjoyable read, obviously very carefully crafted, with some great images and wonderful moments.

What a great idea to bring Troy back! Together with some of the others, it was like meeting some old friends and, although the story stands alone for anyone who didn’t read ‘Seconds Out’, using characters you’ve already created allowed you a bit of a head start. You tied his present circumstances into the previous story seamlessly, and I thought that worked very well.

You’ve explored Troy’s motivation with an impressive realism, making it very easy to accept the reasons why he behaves as he does, and his subsequent actions seemed to me to logically follow from that which had gone before.

I was very impressed by your use of natural phenomena to reflect what was happening between Troy and Jenny: the dust motes, normally out of sight, becoming visible in the ‘fusty’ atmosphere, your use of sunlight and shade, the start of a breeze, all seeming to reflect Troy’s gradual revelations, shady secrets being drawn out into the sunlight. Very nicely crafted, I thought.

In the light of all the above, please take the following as minor comments on style and/or plotting that I picked up on, which you might find useful:

Troy’s wife, Trish (Nice name, by the way!!)
Troy’s motivation for serial womanising is revealed later in the story, but he describes Trish’s qualities in a way that makes him seem almost in awe of her.

What was it about her that didn’t satisfy his need for affection, love and attention? She had enough about her to bring him to the altar, but what was still missing that meant he couldn’t stop his wandering? And why was she the first person Troy wanted to talk about?

Jenny’s blouse and stockings (oo er missus)
You describe Jenny’s cream top when she moves out from behind her desk. But later, she reveals it again when she takes her jacket off. Perhaps Troy shouldn’t have noticed it before if it was going to have the later effect?

Now, the stockings... When Jenny first moves from behind the desk, you describe her as wearing stockings. As this is Troy’s point of view, he is clearly making an assumption – they could, after all, be tights or hold-ups. Only later, when Jenny gets up again, does Troy notice the outline of suspenders under her skirt, confirming an earlier assumption. Now, Troy, being a serial womaniser and presumably a afficionado in all things related to womanising, I’d have thought he’d have made an educated guess about the stockings, and feel pleased with himself later for being right.

In other words, when Jenny came out from behind the desk, Troy could have eyed her up and made a bet with himself about whether she was a ‘stockings’ type of person or not, then congratulated himself later when the evidence confirmed he was right. It’s the sort of smug thing I’d suspect someone like Troy would pride himself on.

Points of view
Some parts of the story are described from Troy’s point of view, others from Jenny’s. Other times, it seems as if the narrator is a third party, watching the two characters. This is a difficult thing to get to grips with, and can sometimes become confusing. In a way, it’s about playing God, I think.

When you write from Troy’s point of view, you can describe what he’s feeling, but can only observe the outward signs of Jenny’s behaviour. When writing from Jenny’s point of view, the opposite applies. When writing from a third party’s point of view, you can describe both characters’ outward behaviour, but you would have to be ‘playing God’ to know what both of them are thinking, feeling or are about to do next.

None of these positions are necessarily wrong, but you have switched between them in the course of your piece, and sometimes it can confuse the reader – for instance, why do I know what Troy is thinking at one moment, but not the next?

Exclamation!
You’ve used an exclamation mark a couple of times: “Whatever!” and “...about four hours!” Somehow, I found this a little confusing, and maybe that’s down to the way individuals interpret the mark. For me, it’s almost a jump in the air accompanied by a big smile - which is why it didn’t seem to fit with the mood you’d created in those situations. Maybe that’s just me though...

The sudden turn
At a crucial turning point, Troy suddenly decides he and Jenny aren’t getting anywhere, and that the whole thing is useless. What triggered this sudden turnaround? He seems nervous, fiddling in his trouser pocket, but what causes him to snap and walk out? What’s the nerve Jenny hits?

Having just seen Coyleys' comment about the ending, I thought I'd add that I thought the ending was very good - I interpreted it as a breakthrough - the sun coming out from behind the clouds - but in making that single breakthrough, the floodgates have opened, and revealed all the smaller shadows, the individual contributing problems that together have caused Troy's behaviour. (Though I could be completely wrong!!)

As I said, this is just my feedback for what it’s worth – the main thing is, I really enjoyed the story!

Very, very entertaining!

Thanks for your encouraging comments Tallyman, which I take on board.

I included your suggestion for the name Trish as a trick to secure your vote in this month's competition. My intention is to have more stories in the future that link back to that original speed dating one.

I take your point about the timing of my references to Jenny's attire. Rest assured I did deliberate for quite some time over her stockings and suspenders, but i will try to make it more airtight.

Criticising my use of exclamation marks?? How dare you!!! Just kidding there, Tallyman, it's a fair point.

Yes, you're quite right about the ending, the myriad shadows representing lots of smaller problems. "Warming Troy and Jenny" was meant to plant a seed for them as a possible future couple. Plausible, you think? Thanks for your comments about the natural phenomena, light and shade etc. The wasp also was intended to represent something hidden and negative that was on the brink of bursting forth. I wrote these things with a certain amount of unease. I made some comments last month about the seemingly cryptic nature of short stories and yet this month I appear to have gone out of my way to include many such cryptic bits. "Hypocrite!" I hear you shout.

The sudden turn was prompted by her revealing (in full glory, as opposed to the earlier glimpse) her satin (or silky) top, it being a subconscious trigger for Troy back to his mother and those associated feelings of rejection, being excluded and not being loved.

I'm particularly interested in your comment about the narrator. I need to learn how to handle this better so I'd be grateful if you could point out one or two bits where the discrepancy in viewpoint was most striking for you. Although you'd be well within your rights to argue that you've taken enough trouble already to make some excellent comments. I do appreciate it and learn from it.

Thanks Tallyman

Ron

Thanks for taking my comments with such good grace; there's always a lot to say about your work - and I mean that in a good way!

As for the examples you asked for:

Troy's point of view
When Jenny moves away from the desk, Troy surveys her and we find out what she's wearing. But the fact that he was impressed, and that his imagination decided to shoot an extra scene, indicates we're seeing things from his point of view - we know what he's thinking.

Later, in the car park, when Troy's eyes glaze and we catch a glimpse of his past, that again is from his point of view. That's the only way we would know what he was thinking and remembering.

Jenny's point of view
When Jenny smiles impartially, we learn that she thinks it's hard to be impartial sometimes. That can only come from knowing her point of view.

When Jenny fills in her notes after the session, we find out what she's thinking - that it was a mistake to suggest a change. We also learn how she felt she dealt with the session. This is personal, internal, information about Jenny - from her point of view.

Observer's point of view
Much of the descriptive passages are from the point of view of a neutral observer: The description of the room, the movements of the characters, the changes in weather, appearance of the wasp etc. There's no suggestion during these passages that you're seeing these things 'through the eyes' of either character, thus they are neutral and unbiased.

Observer playing God
Troy is described as 'usually brash and confident'. A neutral observer wouldn't know this - it's an opinion beyond the realms of neutrality. But we're not coming to this understanding of Troy through his, or Jenny's, eyes either.

When both characters look over to the wasp and are 'expecting it to fly into the room', how do we know that? Unless, of course, we are in both characters' heads at once, or the 'neutral' observer can see into their minds!


Alternatives
It's possible to reduce the number of different points of view in many ways, and a lot has been written about that by better people than me. But, for example:

Starting a passage with 'Troy settled himself on the couch and took in his surroundings' would let you describe the room through Troy's eyes. Using a phrase like 'Jenny glanced towards the window' would let you describe the wasp incident, or the weather changes, from her point of view. Both these approaches could remove the need for a neutral observer.

There's no problem in changing points of view from Jenny to Troy and back again (in my opinion), but it helps if you signal the change (for example, using 'As Jenny rose from her seat, Troy took the opportunity to study her more closely' as a way to bring the reader into Troy's mind, so we can see what he's thinking. I also feel it's better to stay with one character for a reasonable length of time before changing back to the other's point of view.


Please note, Ron, these are only my opinions, and should be treated as such, to be ignored or considered as you please! Others may well have different ideas, and I hope they express them here. But that, after all, is what it's all about :)

Thanks Tallyman. Your message is an education for me. It has opened my eyes to this whole aspect of writing. I am in your debt.

I wouldn't dream of ignoring your advice - surely you know that by now e.g. Trish, indentation, ... but if I do happen to forget today's wisdom then please don't hesitate to point it out.

"Cheers!" ron said, as he jumped in the air, smiling.

Ron,

Somehow I get the feeling you have a great sense of humour. I was going to put a '!' there, but I'm feeling self-conscious about it now :)

I enjoyed reading your story, RB. I’m not sure I should even try to add to Tallyman’s detailed comments, but I’ll have a go anyway ;).

Like Tallyman, I liked the structure and the way the nature elements reflect what’s going on in the story – the breeze picking up after Troy admits he wants to be accepted, the wasp flying in after Troy mentions his mother being proud of Alice ... I found that very effective. I also found I could picture the scene very well, the slightly fusty office with the traffic noise outside and the thin partition walls where you could hear muffled sounds from the neighbouring room – it was all portrayed very well.

I liked the expressions “trespassed outside of his comfort zone” and the traffic noise “gatecrashing the session.” Both words imply something illicit, and to me that helped underline the fact that speaking about his feelings in therapy like this is uncharted territory for Troy, almost with a sense that he feels there’s something not quite right about what he’s doing.

I also liked the way the character of Troy is portrayed. You feel he’s acting very true to type when he sizes up Jenny as she moves round the room. That helps underline what he says about himself when he admits he’s a womanizer.

One thing I wasn’t entirely comfortable with was the shift in gear at the end of page 2/start of page 3. As Troy lists his series of conquests and Jenny tries to suppress her reaction there’s a rising feeling of humour, culminating in a laugh out loud moment when he mentions the mother-in-law. (Sorry if it wasn’t meant to be funny – it might be I only saw it that way because of your evident sense of humour elsewhere in SFWG.)Then comes the lorry setting off the car alarm and everything starts getting much more serious again. For me, that seems to come a bit too suddenly. But that could well be just me. Also probably just me, but I had to giggle a bit at “I can’t seem to keep it in my trousers.” Troy’s mouth drooped... " [my italics] Perhaps an unfortunate choice of word in that context??

I think Troy’s agitation when he notices the blouse is very well described. It’s obvious that something has made him very uncomfortable. Like Tallyman, I wonder if the cause needs to be made a little clearer. Maybe, when Jenny’s appearance is first described, you could tell us that she’s wearing a navy-stripe skirt suit and that Troy “catches a glimpse of some kind of cream top” under the jacket. Then later, when she takes the jacket off, it could be made clear that he notices at that point that she’s wearing a satin blouse. Just a thought.

Just to be awkward, there were a couple of places where I might have preferred a little less description:

"Dr Young finally intervened, extending her arm towards Troy, palms forward, curbing his flow like a skilled traffic officer."

I’m not sure you need “curbing the flow”. As a reader, I like to work out for myself what her action means – if that makes sense.

"She struggled initially, trying to escape his grip. An impala trapped by a lion. But, realising his overwhelming strength, she succumbed and placed herself at his mercy. He spat out his frustration…"

An impala trapped by a lion is perhaps a bit over-dramatic and I don’t think it would hurt to omit it. And instead of “and placed herself at his mercy” (cliché?) how about simply “and waited for what might come next.” Again, it’s just a thought.

I liked the way you handled the ending. I thought it implied that a relationship might develop between Troy and Jenny, with all the sadness that would involve for the other people it would affect.

I’d also like to add to Tallyman’s congratulations for being the first to have a go at this theme. It wasn’t as easy as it might have sounded, was it? And as usual I want to stress that I have no qualifications whatsoever as any kind of critic and the above are just my views as an avid reader of stories. Feel free to take on board or completely ignore as you see fit!

Oh and I nearly forgot to say: I love the title. Hot contender for the SFWG fruit gums award, I would say. :)

Thanks SK.

Thanks for pointing out the bits you liked. It's very satisfying when some bits work.

Your point about the shift from 'humour' to 'serious' does mirror my own indecision regarding the overall tone. I started with the idea of creating quite an intense, authentic story. Then I changed my mind as the previous story had done my head in. So I decided instead to try 'humorous and poignant' and that's when I wrote the section about his indiscretions, which was meant to be funny. But as it developed I found that I naturally reverted to a more serious tone. Thanks for pointing out that incongruity.

[your own critique has had me in stitches, by the way :hihi: 'humorous and astute' I would say]

Judging by your comment about the 'cream satin top' turning point, which Tallyman also pointed out, I see that I need to make it a bit more obvious.

Fair point about the redundant phrase "curbing his flow".

As for "impala trapped by a lion" - I'm glad you raised it. I did intend for the image to be a bit uncomfortable with the woman helplessly overpowered. I wanted to make a comparison with the animal kingdom, where this sort of thing goes on all the time, acting as a reminder that we are all animals underneath our civilised exteriors. I thought about that phrase for quite a while, but not long enough, it seems.

I'm chuffed you liked the ending. So far I have 2 in favour, 1 against and 1 don't know.

And the title - yes, I really liked it too, so much in fact that we have adopted it as our quiz team name in my local pub, 'The Cobden View'.

I'm looking forward to reading 'Janet Goes Nuts' later, but should my comments be 'humorous and poignant' or 'intense and serious'? I just can't decide. Perhaps I'll go for 'inane and stupid', as usual. :loopy:

Thanks again Sauerkraut, much appreciated.