The leader of the BNP Nick Griffin has today been charged at Halifax police station on 4 counts of inciting racial hatred.
Looks like Blunkett has got his man.
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4359820

Good good, hope justice is served, if proved guilty i hope he will be sentenced accordingly.

Is this in relation to his assertion that Islam is a 'dangerous religion'? What exactly is he supposed to have said in these four cases?

I beleive it is due to the speech he gave which was shown on the secret agent film,the one in which he said islam was a wicked religion.

Since the BNP are now a non-racist party which respects law and order will they dismiss Griffin if (and I hope he is) convicted of inciting racial hatred?

MOD: It's been nice and peaceful for a few weeks now, let's keep it that way.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Since the BNP are now a non-racist party which respects law and order will they dismiss Griffin if (and I hope he is) convicted of inciting racial hatred?

That I cant comment on,I beleive he is due to appear at Leeds Magistrates court tommorow.

Were you one of the "minders" (on Look North) then?

I assume that the liitle old man from the UAF was the World Champion Street Fighting Champion to warrant the "Northern Ireland Style Landrover" you used to transport your man!!!

Keep this on topic... the type of car and who drove it isn't exactly relevant...

Sorry. I'll rephrase that.

Roy, were you visible on the telly then?
Which one were you?

Keeping on topic it was good to have such a good turnout for the leaders apperance at the police station.
I have looked at the TV footage and I feel it was fair and balanced for once.
I myself may be going to Leeds tommorow to show my support for the chairman. If he is imprisoned im sure the party will still function properly.
But his arrest does seem to be timely with the election and all?:thumbsup:

Originally posted by royjames

I myself may be going to Leeds tommorow to show my support for the chairman. If he is imprisoned im sure the party will still function properly.
But his arrest does seem to be timely with the election and all?:thumbsup:

Hi

I think you are correct about the timing Roy. But more about Howard and "its not racist" than about the BNP. I am sure you have heard a similar line to "I don't wish to sound rude but..." and you know that is exactly what they are.

Do you know what I mean? I am saying that someone in Whitehall may be trying to link Howard and Griffin's politics. Not a bad pR job if you ask me.

Originally posted by royjames

But his arrest does seem to be timely with the election and all?:thumbsup:

I can understand your cynicism regarding the timing.

If he is convicted I am right in thinking he will be unable to stand for election?

Nomme

To be honest im not sure if that is the case,although I imagine it might be rather difficult to run for office from a prison cell.
Besides I feel he will be aquited of all charges,but ONLY after the election.;) ;)

but as was pointed out this coverage will provide an oppurtunity to launch their election campaign.

i seriously hope that he wasn't arrested becasue he called islam a wicked religion. if he had suggested that action should be taken beacuase of this it is a differnt story though.

The laws on religiousand racial incitement worry me. i understand the sentiement. I wacthed recently a man abused on the train simply beacuase he was asian. (I pointed out to the racist that his attacks most likely stemmed from jealousy and ignorance). People should be free from this sort of abuse yet should we legislate against this? should it not be that societey makes the views unnaceptable by default and making those who hold them parriahs, the strongest weapon against racist veiws is a strong counter argument demonsatring the inherent flaws in any racist argument. legislation is a very blunt tool which often takes a sledgehammer to the subtle nuances of arguments involving race.

an example is that i believe strand political islam preached by a small minority is a danger to brittish socitey and the politcal system we entertain and thus action should be taken. this does not mean i believe islam is a dangerous religion and it does not mean i want muslim memebership of britain minimised. it means i want the media to report issues such as race more accuratley and those who say shut down plays with threats of violence prosecuted (the same way i want those who suggest bricking the "paki shop" becasue of who they are)

Yet will the law be written well enough to enable that kind of debate to take place without stifling restrictions

am i making any sense here

Up to a point you are,I dont agree with some of what you say regard ignorance its not ignorant to want to preserve your culture.
But it is wrong to attack people for thier skin color,do you see where im coming from?

Originally posted by timo
Is this in relation to his assertion that Islam is a 'dangerous religion'? What exactly is he supposed to have said in these four cases?

Well he couldnt have been arrested for saying that about islam because that is not a racist comment. It would be like me saying catholism is a bad/evil religion because they wont let people wear condoms and then they die of aids as a consequence. Its simply not racist - OMG I sound like a tory now!!

Originally posted by nightrider
Well he couldnt have been arrested for saying that about islam because that is not a racist comment. It would be like me saying catholism is a bad/evil religion because they wont let people wear condoms and then they die of aids as a consequence. Its simply not racist - OMG I sound like a tory now!!

That is a very valid point.....

Originally posted by nightrider
Well he couldnt have been arrested for saying that about islam because that is not a racist comment. It would be like me saying catholism is a bad/evil religion because they wont let people wear condoms and then they die of aids as a consequence. Its simply not racist - OMG I sound like a tory now!!

Yes but that is a reasoned argument. If you stood up in room full of angry drunk young men and shouted. Go out now and do in a Catholic before a Catholic does your family in. it becomes a whole new debate.

Griffin may also not be facing charges for anti-Muslims comments. In the past he has asserted that black immigration is a tool of Jews to destroy the white race. If he made a rousing speech about needed to ‘do-in’ Jews this would be racism legally.

Have you you seen and read what griffin says about islam.
As Sheffield forum have got a bit fed up ( and I understand why) of having the political forum this is what wikipedia says about mr griffin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin#Early_Years_and_Education
He has been done for this sort of thing before and if found guilty he should go down.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Yes but that is a reasoned argument. If you stood up in room full of angry drunk young men and shouted. Go out now and do in a Catholic before a Catholic does your family in. it becomes a whole new debate.

G

but he didnt say go and do all muslims in in a room of angry men. He said islam was a wicked religion. I take your point it is a bad idea to say that in such a situation, but its still not racist and so it isnt actually illegal to say that. So the arrest must be for something else he said. I dont doubt he would have said something to incite racial hatred, I just doubt he could be arrested for saying the words wicked religion.

I could say all people in london are evil scumbags in a room of angry men. This would not be illegal at all would it? If they actually went and killed them all subsequently I could be done for being involved in planning the assaults. But only after the fact the people in the room did this,

Any coppers or lawyers who can comment on what the law actually is or what he said and what he was arrested for?

I feel most fair minded people will see his arrest as nothing more than political,I never thought I would see the day when the leader of a legit political party would be arrested in this country for speaking the truth.
Oh and I have been told not to go to Leeds tommorow as the extreme left are planning to cause trouble.
But no matter the BNP will continue and they had better build many more prisons as we all will continue to tell the truth.

Originally posted by nightrider
but he didnt say go and do all muslims in in a room of angry men. He said islam was a wicked religion. ?
At one point during the documentary he did say something along the lines of ‘you need to do a Muslim before they do you’ to a small room of angry, shouting young men. That is not an exact quote but I believe the documentary is available on the BBC website. Griffin even acknowledged after making the above statement that if the police heard him say it he could be prosecuted. Later in the documentary and subsequently on Newsnight he said Islam was a wicked religion.

The BNP spin machine has made lots of comments regarding this, but little about the ‘do for a Muslim’ line

Originally posted by royjames
I feel most fair minded people will see his arrest as nothing more than political,I never thought I would see the day when the leader of a legit political party would be arrested in this country for speaking the truth.


why is it political? If he actually said something to incite racial hatred then he broke the law and should be arrested IMO. Are you saying he didnt say such a thing?

Roy, I think most fair minded people will see it as the leader of far right party trying to incite racial hatred as usual.
Mark Collet, I don't know much about him. Why has he got more charges.

Originally posted by royjames

Oh and I have been told not to go to Leeds tommorow as the extreme left are planning to cause trouble.
.

Yep that 80 year old holocaust survivor on the news did show Griffin has spent BNP money wisely by investing in his armoured Land Rover

So to go with your logic if I say the protestants religion is evil,is this reason to have me arrested?
As to the comment it was a room full of drunken angry men just where is the proof for such a statement?
We are going down a very slippery slope here,I think if you value your freedom you ought to be very worried.
Free speech is under threat as never before.

Originally posted by royjames
So to go with your logic if I say the protestants religion is evil,is this reason to have me arrested?


Is this addressed to me? I thought I answered this point.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
Yep that 80 year old holocaust survivor on the news did show Griffin has spent BNP money wisely by investing in his armoured Land Rover


Oh yes the far left are all 80 plus aernt they:loopy:
Those who attacked the BNP meeting last week were all pensioners wernt they:confused:
Come on now disco you can do better than that.

Originally posted by royjames

As to the comment it was a room full of drunken angry men just where is the proof for such a statement?


As usual the BNP meeting was in the back room of a pub and Nick Grifin described the people in the room as angry young men.

Originally posted by royjames

Those who attacked the BNP meeting last week were all pensioners wernt they:confused:


Before you flame up this thread by going off topic to get it closed as you are losing the argument, could you answer this question.

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=358724#post358724

Nightrider, Please DO carry on 'sounding like a Tory'!

Personally, I am not in full possession of the facts here, and I fully understand Roy James' position. If, and I say if, Griffin has been charged with inciting racial hatred because he has described Islam as a 'wicked' religion, I genuinely believe that this is one of those situations where the law is a proverbial ass. Islam does not recognise 'race', and in anthropological terms [if we go by the old typological classifications], muslims belong to practically every 'race' recognised in ethnology. The law must, in a sense, be racist if it is made under the assumption that Islam is for non-whites.

I do not regard Islam as 'wicked', but some of the extreme Wahabist interpretations of Islam do not fit easily into the context of a capitalist, liberal, secular society. Will it soon be an offence to say that? Shall we all have to pretend that we live in perfect, multicultural harmony in one big 'melting pot'? Who, genuinely, does not feel foreboding for the future of race relations in Britain, and for the future of free speech?

Timo:
I fully agree that Griffin should not be arrested for labelling Islam a wicked faith, but this is not all he is guilty of. And it is pointless to keep using this as the basis for his charge as the undercover states:

"I heard the BNP leader Nick Griffin give a speech inciting racial hatred and the founder, John Tyndall, inciting racial hatred and I heard some awful anti-Semitic remarks."

This implies the charge is more serious then the comments made on News night/

What is your opinion on him facing charges for comments made specifically to enflame racial tension?

Disco please dont try to accuse me of flaming this thread as I was the one who began it,as to losing the argument really? I dont think so.
Now to answer your question about Mark Collett,I dont know why he has more charges maybe you ought to ask the police?
To be fair to Geoff he has let this thread go and so lets stick to the topic shall we.

Originally posted by timo
Nightrider, Please DO carry on 'sounding like a Tory'!

Personally, I am not in full possession of the facts here, and I fully understand Roy James' position. If, and I say if, Griffin has been charged with inciting racial hatred because he has described Islam as a 'wicked' religion, I genuinely believe that this is one of those situations where the law is a proverbial ass. Islam does not recognise 'race', and in anthropological terms [if we go by the old typological classifications], muslims belong to practically every 'race' recognised in ethnology. The law must, in a sense, be racist if it is made under the assumption that Islam is for non-whites.

I do not regard Islam as 'wicked', but some of the extreme Wahabist interpretations of Islam do not fit easily into the context of a capitalist, liberal, secular society. Will it soon be an offence to say that? Shall we all have to pretend that we live in perfect, multicultural harmony in one big 'melting pot'? Who, genuinely, does not feel foreboding for the future of race relations in Britain, and for the future of free speech?

disco_cat already pointed out he clearly was caugh on film inciting ratial hatred.

I agree we should be able to criticise certain aspects of islam. Its not just islam though that I think needs criticism. eg catholics/christian fundamentaists etc I am critical of.

Originally posted by nightrider
disco_cat already pointed out he clearly was caugh on film inciting ratial hatred.

I agree we should be able to criticize certain aspects of islam. Its not just islam though that I think needs criticism. eg catholics/Christian fundamentaists etc I am critical of.


Well you had better make the most of your chance to critisise as the law will before long have you arrested.
Great to live in a democracy aint it.;)

Originally posted by royjames
lets stick to the topic shall we.

Yes, can you answer the question put to you by night rider instead of turning this into a thread about how you may be violent but your not as violent as the reds (whoever they are)

I know it is going off topic a bit but I hope the mods allow it. The focus of this thread is on griffin but Roy I want to know your views on collet. You know the accusations about griffin, do you know what the charges that collet ( and the other one) are accused of are.

Originally posted by royjames
Well you had better make the most of your chance to critisise as the law will before long have you arrested.


No I wont. The new law is against inciting racial hatred. If I say it is wrong that religion x does action y that is ok. Just as I can say now I think policy a of country b is wrong/immoral/evil etc without being arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Disco Cat,
As I said, I am not, as yet, in full possession of the facts. All I have is the 'Islam is a wicked religion' comment to go on. I am glad that you agree here that the statement in itself is not sufficient to warrant arrest. There is no attempt on my behalf to use this as the basis of his charge, it is merely all I am aware of to date.

If Griffin has made remarks 'specifically to enflame racial tension', as you phrase it, that would be quite a different matter. At this stage, I simply do not know the full facts. I am mindful, however, that several journalists in the media [and not a few posters on this Forum], have recently accused Michael Howard of doing exactly the same thing with regard to gypsies. Until I have the full facts, I cannot make a fair judgement.

Originally posted by carcrash
I know it is going off topic a bit but I hope the mods allow it. The focus of this thread is on griffin but Roy I want to know your views on collet. You know the accusations about griffin, do you know what the charges that collet ( and the other one) are accused of are.


As I have said before I dont know the charges which mark colett faces and to be honest I dont care,Sorry but I dont like the man.
I wont go into any more than this so dont ask.

I just find it interesting that the BNP have succeeded in spinning the debate so that many people think all Griffin did was say Islam is a wicked faith, when the documentary alone (and convictions may be based on other evidence) showed him saying far worse and even admitting such comments were illegal.

So there have been 3 bnp people charged with various things and you only comment on the leader.
Google time I think.
Roy is that the correct spelling ?

I f you read what Nick said he said he could be arrested for saying islam is wicked he said he could get 7 yrs if the NEW law comes into force.
Do get it right Disco.;)

So collett used to be yorkshire organiser who got banned from the bnp for a year. Why don't you like him roy?. He sounds like your sort of man

Originally posted by carcrash
So collett used to be yorkshire organiser who got banned from the bnp for a year. Why don't you like him roy?. He sounds like your sort of man


Lol nice try carcrash but im not going to comment on this anymore,lets get back to the topic shall we.
I await the news that the chairman has been bailed to appear at some future time AFTER the election,so it leaves a cloud over the party and country.

Originally posted by royjames
I f you read what Nick said he said he could be arrested for saying islam is wicked he said he could get 7 yrs if the NEW law comes into force.


Sorry Roy you are wrong. During the speech secretly filmed Griffin made a comment about needing to ‘do for a Muslim’ and then immediately after said that if the police knew about the speech he would be charged with inciting racial hatred. this was before the religious hatred bill was announced.

I think you need to find yourself a copy of the documentary, I’d loan you mine but i don’t trust the BNP.

No nice try about it roy. He looks like a nasty piece of work and I understand that some of your supposed moderate views wouldn't go down to well with him.
Is it just a bail hearing tomorrow as I was hoping to have a party to celebrate them been sent down

If you would like more info on Collet, this documentary Young Nazi and Proud, is exclusively about him:

http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/special_reports/young_nazi_proud.html

He’s not at all a nice piece of work.

Like I said I dont like the man,I dont want to know those who preach Nazi idelogy,this party is for nationalists not nazis.
I will defend this party till the cows come home as long as its a nationalist party,if this ever changes and to be honest I dont see this happening I will leave.
You see we have many old soldiers who fought for this country and I could never do anything to hurt them.
What we all share is a love of our country and its ways and tradition's.

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