We dont need any congestion charges in this city, we pay enough out as it is, the poor motorist and I say that with feeling, is bled white already.

Why should we have to fork out again to go into our own town centre, it is always the worse off who has to foot the bill no doubt to finance some other hairbrained scheme these wiz kids have in mind.

What with petrol prices, tax, repairs, maintenance, speed cameras, tyres, parking meters, traffic wardens, the motorist is the fall guy, used to pay throughy the nose everytime, get off our backs I say!!! :evil: :( :cry:

Personally I think it's a good idea, but I don't drive at the moment. The public transport is excellent in Sheffield so there's not really any excuse to drive into the centre of Sheffield, and it would help the environment and encourage people to walk or cycle.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Personally I think it's a good idea, but I don't drive at the moment. The public transport is excellent in Sheffield so there's not really any excuse to drive into the centre of Sheffield, and it would help the environment and encourage people to walk or cycle.

Excellent? You ideas of Excellent must be very much different from mine. I think the Public Transport is poor and overpriced. Cycling is not a bad idea but I think it's much too dangerous IMO. I don't fancy getting hit by a bus.

Excellent idea if one CAN walk, some people are disabled and CANNOT walk, some need a car to be able to get around!!! :( :( :(

The public transport in Sheffield is, and has been for a long time, better than other places, but that only goes to show how terrible it is in other places. Any city that wants to reduce congestion in it's centre has to take into account why and how people are using their cars then tackle each answer to this question separately. This will definitely involve improving public transport - including that in Sheffield - and identifying who (as halevan points out) needs to use their cars, how to appease people who don't need to use their cars but want to (people with heavy shopping, for instance) and how to target people who are using their cars unnecessarily. Only then can congestion charging be considered as a last resort to target this last group.

In my opinion the public transport is excellent, but to be fair I only go to Meadowhall occasionally, catch the odd bus into uni and commute home to Leicester some weekends.

There's not really any excuse for not walking for any journey less than 20 minute walking distance. Fair enough if you're disabled then by all means drive, disabled people should be exempt from congestion charges.

Cycling is safe enough if you do it on the pavement :wink:

The public transport is excellent in Sheffield

I would agree that it is better than other places, but not excellent. The overground buses are a joke - on the side of the bus they say at least 1 every x minutes, but they neglect to say that they have a tendency to travel round in groups! And the pricing structure seems to be random!
I live about the same distance from town as my Mum+Dad, but it's a helluva lot cheaper to catch the bus from town to their house than it is to ours??!

I like the trams, it's just a pity they don't go to the places I tend to go to!!

Personally I find the buses and trams in sheffield to be too expensive, even though I'll nearly always use them to get into town instead of a car.

It's not too bad if you're on your own, but taking a family of 4 into town on the bus costs about a fiver return, which is more expensive than car parking for a few hours. Plus carting a whole load of shopping home on a bus with a family in tow (including a child in a buggy) isn't a pleasant experience.

It's no wonder that places like Meadowhall with their free parking and child friendly facilities are booming.

Would it not be cheaper than £5 to use the park and ride?

The majority of congestion is caused by two parties:

1) Parents on the school run. Notice how much quieter it is during half term breaks? But this is an age old problem and is only going to get worse as society continues to become less safe. A good idea would be to shift the start time of the school day.

2) Commuters alone in their cars, all going to the same place. This can be solved by car sharing and using public transport.

I think that free school buses should be provided to get all children to school. Would make a tremendous difference to congestion.

Originally posted by "Ravenger"

I think that free school buses should be provided to get all children to school. Would make a tremendous difference to congestion.
That's rediculous. What's wrong with walking?

Park and Ride: I use the Park and Ride at Nunnery (off the Parkway, by the Dixons building) most mornings. Between 8 and 9am, the trams are crammed full, and it's the same going back in the evening around 5pm.

Before we encorage more people to use Park and Ride, we should invest in more trams. The Park and Ride site at Meadowhell should also be extended because it's tiny.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

I think that free school buses should be provided to get all children to school. Would make a tremendous difference to congestion.
That's rediculous. What's wrong with walking?


Some Children attend schools which are pretty far to walk to.

Originally posted by "Andy"

Park and Ride: I use the Park and Ride at Nunnery (off the Parkway, by the Dixons building) most mornings. Between 8 and 9am, the trams are crammed full, and it's the same going back in the evening around 5pm.

Before we encorage more people to use Park and Ride, we should invest in more trams. The Park and Ride site at Meadowhell should also be extended because it's tiny.

Are the trams always full then? or is just like you say in rush hours? it's just because I remember back in 96 before Euro 96 the trams used to be always empty and it was losing a shed load of money each week. Looks like Stagecoach have turned it around then.

Originally posted by "Lickszz"

Park and Ride: I use the Park and Ride at Nunnery (off the Parkway, by the Dixons building) most mornings. Between 8 and 9am, the trams are crammed full, and it's the same going back in the evening around 5pm.

Before we encorage more people to use Park and Ride, we should invest in more trams. The Park and Ride site at Meadowhell should also be extended because it's tiny.

Are the trams always full then? or is just like you say in rush hours? it's just because I remember back in 96 before Euro 96 the trams used to be always empty and it was losing a shed load of money each week. Looks like Stagecoach have turned it around then.

I've been surprised how well used the trams are these days. It's becoming a useful service rather than the novelty it was in the first few years. It, and the park & ride service, should be extended.

Originally posted by "Lickszz"

I think that free school buses should be provided to get all children to school. Would make a tremendous difference to congestion.

That's rediculous. What's wrong with walking?

Some Children attend schools which are pretty far to walk to.

I did have to walk to sixth form once, during Jan 1995 when the city was snowed under. I got there at 1pm! (we lived in Norton - school at the time was Tapton). Luckily my comprehensive and primary schools were within walking distance, but I still agree with Ravenger and Lickszz - free buses would be a huge boon. Arranging groups of kids walking to school together would be beneficial too - I think we had a fairly informal version of this when I was at primary school, with the part-time mums walking us to school on something of a rota basis. It seemed to work pretty well and it wasn't a short walk.

The trams are busy all day, and packed during rush hour. I normally leave work about 5:15, and often have to wait for the second Meadowhall tram because the first one is too full to get on. When the second one gets there it's often standing room only once the tram's passed the Cathedral.

Even during the day, they're pretty busy. Having said that I did catch a tram from Hillsborough the other evening and I was the only passanger until some drunk students got on at the University.

I think that, in this case, letting a private company run a public service was a good idea. Stagecoach cut the fares when they took over, which encoraged more passangers to use the system. They also made it user-friendly by having conductors on board - as well as making sure everyone pays, they can give out information, tell people where to get off, and make sure there's no vandalism.

What I'd like to see now is more through ticketing on the different forms of public transport - tram tickets valid on the bus, and bus tickets valid on any bus, regardless of who operates the service.

Originally posted by "Andy"

What I'd like to see now is more through ticketing on the different forms of public transport - tram tickets valid on the bus, and bus tickets valid on any bus, regardless of who operates the service.

Far too much like common sense for anyone to consider! :shock: Sorry - am being a bit sceptical, but the logic of this is so clear it does make you wonder why it isn't all the rage. The Supertram was intended as an arterial system, so to make the most of it there should be through-tickets. Lets hope the various companies learn to talk to each other - at the moment there aren't even through-tickets on the different company bus services :-(

Originally posted by "Lickszz"

I think that free school buses should be provided to get all children to school. Would make a tremendous difference to congestion.
That's rediculous. What's wrong with walking?


Some Children attend schools which are pretty far to walk to.
What do you define as being 'too far'. It takes me 20 minutes to walk into uni, and even if it was further away than it is, I'd still be happy to walk. Kids don't get the excersise they need these days. When I went to school if anyone were to suggest driving in to school you'd think they were crazy.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

I think that free school buses should be provided to get all children to school. Would make a tremendous difference to congestion.
That's rediculous. What's wrong with walking?


Some Children attend schools which are pretty far to walk to.
What do you define as being 'too far'. It takes me 20 minutes to walk into uni, and even if it was further away than it is, I'd still be happy to walk. Kids don't get the excersise they need these days. When I went to school if anyone were to suggest driving in to school you'd think they were crazy.

but your an adult....it's different for a child of 12-15. Also in the winter with the dark nights, is it safe? It used to take me 25 minutes to walk to school. True kids do not get the exercise they need, but they should get the exercise then need in PE.

Well, to be fair, I went to school in a quiet country town, so I suppose it would be a lot safer walking to school there than it is here in Sheffield.

Of course if a school's in walking distance the children should walk!

If a child wants to walk to school that should be their choice, at least they won't have to rely on their parents to drive them if a free bus is available.

It'd be safer for pupils and reduce congestion.

i live a good 5 miles plus away from college, so it'd take me an hour plus to walk home, which isnt good for me legs (and its all up hill :()

trams are usually busy when i board them (nearly every weekday)

sheffield is too small for a congestion charge, plus inner city businesses would die off

If conjestion charging ever happened in Sheffield I would avoid the centre like the plague. I would not shop there ever again.

In this day and age it is simply not safe for children to walk to school, not even in twos or threes. Don't you read or watch the news. Also as in pitsmoor the nearest schools are too far away to walk to.

I agree with what many of you are saying...Sheffield city centre is neither large enough, nor congested enough, nor prosperous enough to implement a congestion charge.

And the buses are jam-packed already!

It'll probably just make Meadowhall even busier....city centre will just be more of a ghost town..

Originally posted by mslotus
In this day and age it is simply not safe for children to walk to school, not even in twos or threes. Don't you read or watch the news. Also as in pitsmoor the nearest schools are too far away to walk to.


Yet more paranoia fuelled by the tabloid press. There are no more or less dodgy characters around today than 20 years ago. In fact the controls and checks are more stringent than 20 years ago on this sort of thing.

I and most of my peers walked to school 20 years ago - what's so different now?

Cotton Wool syndrome I call it.

I speak as a non Driver, but I get the impression that Sheffield City Centre is already a bit of a nightmare for drivers.
Makes me think that no matter what you do with congestion charges or traffic measures a lot of people will still use their cars.

Same seems to apply to Smokers, petrol buyers and anything else supposedly "prohibitively" taxed.

Can I just add that I am using the word prohibitlively in its literal sense (ie it actually stops people from buying)

Anyone who is opposed to a drastic reduction in the number of cars on the roads in our city should go the edge of it and look back on a sunny day. There is a disgusting brown smog that sits very comfortable over Sheffield.

We have to breathe that s##t everyday that we are here. We have a responsibility to reduce it and the first step is to find alternative ways to reduce the number of cars on roads. I agree with congestion charging in principle (just in rush hour / school run time?) but think there are other ways to achieve this aim.

Well when we moved to our new offices I scoped out how long it would take on public transport, and think I'd have had to be out by 7 to make sure I got here in time!

I drive through the city everyday from one side of Sheffield to the other, and the public transport out to where I work is abismal.

It's a good idea in principle, but has to be applied sensitively so as not to hit city centre retailers.

Certainly ALL funds raised by such a charge should be ring-fenced for use in public transport and road improvement schemes. Packaging it with a national reduction in fuel tax might be a good idea, too: it would help ease the burden on rural dwellers, the majority of whom have no option but to use cars. How about using some of the proceeds to improve city centre car parking? How about subsidized parking for city centre shoppers? How about more park and ride schemes?

Of course, I don't trust our local politicians to implement any of these things sensibly... :loopy:

When will people and the various levels of government in this country realise that they will NEVER get people to abandon their cars!!

Drivers like the comfort of their own vehicle, their own personal space, going where they want to go when they want to, not nearly where they want to go when it suits the bus times.

There will be an uproar if these charges are introduced but that will soon calm down, people will keep going where they want to go and pay the charge or more likely, the centre of the city will die and then I suppose the motorist will get the blame for that too.

As for the brown smog over the city, I travel round the city all day and ocassionally get up high so that i can see right over it. I haven't seen any smog and its a fact that Sheffield has some of the cleanest air in the country.

same debates occurred when we first started pedestrianising our city centres in this country, oh the shops will lose business, the motorists will never return etc etc etc. People quickly realised how much more pleasant our towns became.

The same has happened in London (although the context is massively different). With car use set to rise by approx 143% in the next decade, as a society we will be forced to explore different ways of transporting ourselves, our goods and services around.

Although traffic restraint measures may be costly to commerce at the moment, there will come a time when it is in the interest of business to reduce congestion as the costs and time of transporting goods around the country increase massively.

This is just the economic argument. There is also an environemntal argument (i.e we have a responsibility to safeguard the local and global environment for future generations) and the social argument (i.e some groups suffer disporoprtionately as we move to increased car dependence, eg women, the very young and the very old have far lower access rates to cars than middle aged men).

These issues need to be explored creatively and with an open mind, sooner rather than later. Transport is a major part of tackling many economic, social and environmental issues.

Personally I am in favour of congestion charging, but not in Sheffield at the moment - there are few places in this country where it could work in the current environment of public transport deregulation, but I see it happening eventually.

As for the brown smog over the city, I travel round the city all day and ocassionally get up high so that i can see right over it. I haven't seen any smog and its a fact that Sheffield has some of the cleanest air in the country. :loopy:

Perhaps you should try driving with your eyes open? Wait until the next burst of sunshine lasts a couple of days or more and you will see it.

Evidence in London shows that congestion charging can reduce the number of cars without having a too dentimental effect on business. How many people drive onto town / work when they can walk? How many times do you see cars with just one person on it? It's these unecessary journey's that need to be limited.

From what I hear the cogestion charge is starting to work in London and even some of those including business people who were against it are now in favour now they can see the benefits.

We need to recognise that something radical needs to be done before we all grind to a a holt.

I was not a big fan of Ken Livingstone but I do respect the fact that he had the gutts to actually do something.

Same with minimun wage, we are told by business community it will be the end of the world as we know it and only communists are in favour of it.

Same thing with European integration, they tell us only right wing xenophobes are against it.

Nothin is ever as bad in practice as they make out.