I have removed the link to my website since I have received messages to my site email account containing offensive, bigoted, homophobic and sexist material.

This has happened since I responded to a post regarding the lesbian and gay scene in Sheffield.

I am fully aware that the person expressing these views is a much lesser person than I am in that he feels he is entitled to send me torrents of abuse purely on the basis of one aspect of my life.

I am also aware that his preoccupation with this area of my life suggests he has some "issues" around this area too, or at least that is what much research on the subject suggests.

I will not apologise for my sexuality. I will not be made to feel like I need to.

I know I will have support here on this issue, and I also know that others will not agree that I deserve as much respect as heterosexuals. However this is their issue, not mine.

I have been attacked enough on this issue through my life. I could let it destroy me or I can let it make me stronger and more determined to fight for what I believe in, and every aspect of it.

I am strong. You will not stop me posting. I have as much right to be here as anyone else.

Thank you for reading.

Has it deffinately come from a member of the sheffield forum?

Is it deffinately a he? It could also be a she.

I do feel it's outragous in this day and age, that people still feel it necessary to attempt to tale pleasure in the ridicule of another just becuase he/she happens to be either homosexual, black, disabled etc.

Can you not contact the ISP you received these messages from and have this person stopped?
If it's through your website, there must be a way of tracking this persons IP address. Maybe you could share the info with Geoff and he may know who's behind it using this method.

On the flip side he may not want to get involved.

Are these mesages very offensive or just a matter of someones own opinion? Some people can take things the wrong way sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting you. I just like to make sure I know the facts before guns blazing (which I have neglected to do in the past).

Who ever did it should be repremanded. I woulkd forward the email to his internet service provider and dempending on the wording the police. It should be covered as a hate crime.

If you want to know how to find out who his internet service provider is i can help you. In fact i would be very pleased to handle that end for you if you want.

Keep your chin up, not everybody is like that.

Sorry to hear about your news, it is a bit of a worry especially if it is from a forum member and even more so if it is a regular.

Whoever did this should be banned from this site - if that can be done of course.

Don't let it put you of posting and don't tar the rest of us with the same brush.

mikey

Purplepippa we may not see eye to eye on some issues but I am very sorry to hear about these disguting messages you have been getting. There is no excuse for them they are just pure filth.

I would second the others in that you need to report them to the ISP and get them to take some action.

Your sexuality is of no concern to anyone else and I'm happy to see that you are strong enough not to let them bother you.

Good luck!

:)

Wouldn't it be a boring old world if everyone looked the same felt the same and did the same. The fact that we are not all the same is what makes this world what it is. Instead of critisising someone who is "different" these bigots should learn to benefit from the "differences" You have my support. I hope this hate mail stops as it can be very hurtful. Just a thought. What would happen I wonder if we all woke up one day and the tables had been turned and heterosexuality was the "unnatural thing" and all the heterosexual people in the world were treat the same way as homosexuals have been treated. mmmmm

Purplepippa,

Along with the others here I too agree that this is unacceptable behaviour.

Can you identify the person involved? If you can then report them to their ISP as they have almost certainly violated their terms and conditions of acceptable usage.

Nomme

Pippa.......... let me start by stating what total rubbish you have received. DELETE it. These people are the scum of the earth and should not be allowed a computer.
Also on another note - after reading a post from a member on another board, I am pretty sure I can guess who it is.
I am sure you are strong enough to ignore this person, don't let it get you down.

Lindsey

Think I can guess who as well. He is bigoted in a lot of ways.

Originally posted by mslotus
Think I can guess who as well. He is bigoted in a lot of ways.
Lets not go down the witch hunt road and start the blaming game and speculation BEFORE any PROOF is established folks.

Originally posted by mslotus
Think I can guess who as well. He is bigoted in a lot of ways.

This is not just aimed at you mslotus, but could people please refrain from accussing anyone without EVIDENCE.

I know no one has been accussed but I don't want to have to start editing or pulling this thread because someone makes unfounded accussations.

Thanks
Nomme

I wouldn't delete the messages. Get someone with the knowhow to have a go at tracing the person.

As for the person who did it? I truely don't get it. Most people nowadays are fairly relaxed about people being gay. Personally I think (s)he must be having some sort of sexuality crisis (although they probably don't even realise it), which is making them angry and mixed up. Whoever you are, don't go taking it out on someone just because they have learn to embrace their own sexuality. If you are having "doubts" why not talk about it? I'm sure you'll feel a lot less angry once you accept who you are and come out.

Sorry to hear about your experience Purplepippa. It is inexcusable to bombard you with this sort of material because of your sexuality.

I wouldn't dare speculate as to who this might be from, I just hope that it's not a contributor to this forum.

:evil: :evil:

I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you. I hope you don't get anymore messages like this.

I remember ages ago I asked, on the forum, as to whether there was a place in Sheffield like Manchester's Canal Street and the first reply was "No, thank God", followed up with comments about it being a seedy area.

hold your head up purplepippa there are too many ignorant people in this world with too much time on thier hands

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Lets not go down the witch hunt road and start the blaming game and speculation BEFORE any PROOF is established folks.

Right On! DB.

How hatred breeds hatred - and, so often, based upon rumours.

Pippa - I hope you havent been upset by the messages or emails as youre right about being a better person than they are. I thought your website was really good as you know i went on it last night as i go on most websites by forum people (im just too damn nosey) Its a shame you have to delete it from your profile.

Aww I've not even seen the website.

What is it? What is it?

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for the supportive replies, I really appreciate them.

I do want to say though, please please don't start making guesses / allegations about who this is. This will just antagonise people and cause more upset.

Even I don't know who it is. The emails came from someone using a pseudonym (a pretty hateful one) and though I can be sure it is connected to this forum because there was a direct reference to my posts here, we do not even know if it is someone who posts here. It could be an unregistered member who reads or has just read a few threads.

Admittedly when I first read them my head started spinning about who it could be. I silently considered various members. But then I realised that that was really wrong and any kind of suspicions or accusations without evidence were really unfair and certainly divisive.

The emails were horrible. Full of hate and violence. Had I had the presence of mind I would have analysed the headers and contacted the person's ISP without hesitation. But I was so taken aback and hurt that I just deleted them.

If I receive any more, however, I will track them down via the headers and their ISP will be notified.

Thanks again for all the support,
Pippa

Live your life purplepippa. Remember "GAY" means "good as you" or in this case better than you. I agree we should not start blaming without evidence. Trace this person if you can.

The world will never be without bigots unfortunately that is part of life's rich tapestry but it also means there are people like you. All we can do is be ourselves and you seem to have that covered. Good for you:lol:

PurplePippa, having just looked at your site, it seems you have a yahoo account by which the person (I assume) sent you the email?

I too have a yahoo account (mainly for spam), and when I delete and email, it goes into a 'trash' folder. And not permanently delelted until that is emptied. Have a look to see if it's there.

If not contact yahoo and ask if there is a way for the emails to be retreived.

Just a thought.

I must admit I had your website on my to do list and never got a chance to look at it. Fingers crossed you eventually feel confindant enough to put it back up for us to share xxx

Originally posted by purplepippa
I have removed the link to my website since I have received messages to my site email account containing offensive, bigoted, homophobic and sexist material.

This has happened since I responded to a post regarding the lesbian and gay scene in Sheffield.

I am fully aware that the person expressing these views is a much lesser person than I am in that he feels he is entitled to send me torrents of abuse purely on the basis of one aspect of my life.

I am also aware that his preoccupation with this area of my life suggests he has some "issues" around this area too, or at least that is what much research on the subject suggests.

I will not apologise for my sexuality. I will not be made to feel like I need to.

I know I will have support here on this issue, and I also know that others will not agree that I deserve as much respect as heterosexuals. However this is their issue, not mine.

I have been attacked enough on this issue through my life. I could let it destroy me or I can let it make me stronger and more determined to fight for what I believe in, and every aspect of it.

I am strong. You will not stop me posting. I have as much right to be here as anyone else.

Thank you for reading.


I know you probably think it is me because I made a 'joke' in the chat room last night. Believe me though, it wasn't me. Theres a huge gulf between poking a little fun in a chat room and bombarding someone with abusive and offensive messages via a website. You should be able to contact your ISP on this issue and using their email address that they used to email from you should have no trouble finding out their IP address and banning them from this forum (if they're a forum go-er).

Originally posted by purplepippa
Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for the supportive replies, I really appreciate them.

I do want to say though, please please don't start making guesses / allegations about who this is. This will just antagonise people and cause more upset.

Even I don't know who it is. The emails came from someone using a pseudonym (a pretty hateful one) and though I can be sure it is connected to this forum because there was a direct reference to my posts here, we do not even know if it is someone who posts here. It could be an unregistered member who reads or has just read a few threads.

Admittedly when I first read them my head started spinning about who it could be. I silently considered various members. But then I realised that that was really wrong and any kind of suspicions or accusations without evidence were really unfair and certainly divisive.

The emails were horrible. Full of hate and violence. Had I had the presence of mind I would have analysed the headers and contacted the person's ISP without hesitation. But I was so taken aback and hurt that I just deleted them.

If I receive any more, however, I will track them down via the headers and their ISP will be notified.

Thanks again for all the support,
Pippa


This really is bad. I hope I wasn't one of the names that went through your head but with my reputation on here and sometimes ignorant comments I suppose I probably was. Again, though, it wasn't me and I hope you are able to verify who it was so appropriate action can be taken against this person. Best of luck.

Let us know the address the emails came from and I am sure we can spam their mailbox for eternity!

Not impressed.

Don't let it put you off posting here purplepippa, we need people like you.

Hey Girl

Get your chin up

See how many people have defended you today

Bigots are in the minority and thank God for that (well I will, most folks on here are atheists, probably not my best choice of phrasing, but will let it pass)

I doubt if it was any of our regular posters, they dont feel the need to be anonymous with their vitriol so they wouldnt need to start being so with you.

I expect you are right in saying that some Nazi has searched for his personal key words, found your post on our Forum through Google and then tried to do you over.

Best response is to ignore him, and it will be a him, women dont get upset about other women being gay, as a rule, becaue there is no obvious physical threat to them (to state the blindingly obvious)

You already did the right thing, to have answered would only have excited him or made him worse.

I hope you make it tomorrow night and I bet I will be only the first of many who will want to buy you a drink and give you a hug

Louise
x

Originally posted by LouiseB

Best response is to ignore him, and it will be a him, women dont get upset about other women being gay, as a rule, becaue there is no obvious physical threat to them (to state the blindingly obvious)
That p*sses me off!

Can you not comprehend for once in your mind... the teeniest tiniest possibility that it could be a woman. Men aren't always to blame Louise.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
That p*sses me off!

Can you not comprehend for once in your mind... the teeniest tiniest possibility that it could be a woman. Men aren't always to blame Louise.


Agreed.

Originally posted by DaBouncer
That p*sses me off!

Can you not comprehend for once in your mind... the teeniest tiniest possibility that it could be a woman. Men aren't always to blame Louise.

Yes sorry

Hi PurplePippa,

I just wanted to add myself to your ever growing list of well wishers ...

Take care sweetie,
Jamie.

Some people eh :evil:

I saw your site pippa (at least I think it was yours!) the articles were both interesting and informatative :)

the people who hurl abuse on the net like this via email or whatever arent worthy of using the net

but they've got what they wanted which is a scot free "crime" and an upset pippa :(

It doesn't have to be scot free. Pippa could contact her email provider who could then track the senders IP address and inform their ISP, who would possibly disconnect them from their service.

Originally posted by RPG
Some people eh :evil:

I saw your site pippa (at least I think it was yours!) the articles were both interesting and informatative :)

the people who hurl abuse on the net like this via email or whatever arent worthy of using the net

but they've got what they wanted which is a scot free "crime" and an upset pippa :(

One of the aims of a sick mind like this one is to create trouble for its own sake, and from the tone of the replies in support of Pippa, I reckon he/she feels pretty good about it.

But one thing that I bet he/she didn't expect - the level of support.

Reading the thread just now, I feel proud to be associated in some small way with people who will jump in to offer their support so freely. And good on you Pippa for not giving in.

Originally posted by LouiseB
DaB, women are to blame for lots of things, as history will show, lots of things, but history will also show that women are not scared or or cross with men on men sex, usually, because, as I said, there is no way that it threatens them

Elementary I would have thought


Tell me how many men you know, in comparison, that are very concerned about lesbian sex (other than to wish they could watch...) you know I am right, for once, on this subject, if no other
Sorry Louise I don't agree for one minute.
If it came down to it and men started blaming women left right and centre without any real evidence there would be uproar on this site.

But if a woman just say's yeah it'll be a man then we have to take it. So I'm sorry Louise I wont just accept it is a man because you 'think' it is.

I have met some bigotted women in my time who would have done this very thing so I cannot just say yes it would be a bloke.

Okay I concede

When Pippa finds out who it was, perhaps she will tell us their gender.

YAY I WIN !!! Against the LouiseB of B's too! :banana: :headbang: :wow: :mrgreen:

*Gloat* *Gloat* *Gloat* :roll:

Originally posted by LouiseB
Okay I concede


My gast has never been so flabbered.

Well it is a funny day

I have conceded to DaB and agreed with Steelblade

Perhaps there is something in the water today?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LouiseB
[B]
...Best response is to ignore him, and it will be a him, women dont get upset about other women being gay, as a rule, becaue there is no obvious physical threat to them (to state the blindingly obvious) ...

This brings to mind the old proverb:

‘Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned’ (Adapted from a line in the play The Mourning Bride, by William Congreve, an English author of the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries).

Whilst I can empathize with you Purplepippa – and I do – I find it ironic that a thread on bigotry has unleashed so many bigoted responses.

You’ve done a good job DB in your moderating of this thread - in tending to nip some of the ‘knee-jerk’ reactions in the bud.

How many more times do I have to apologise?

I will be in the stocks this evening

I wasnt aware that DaB had moderated me, or that I was a bigot, but hey, if you are sure, I will take my medicine


(obviously homophobes are NOT generally male)

Originally posted by LouiseB
(obviously homophobes are NOT generally male)
... and obviously people of Balkan apprearance are NOT generally asylum seekers.

You are probably right but the self-righteous who live in politically correct glass-houses should never throw stones! Besides, it is so enjoyable watching you squirm as you try to defend your own deep-rooted bigoted, misandrist feelings!!;) :)

Originally posted by LouiseB
... I wasnt aware that DaB had moderated me, or that I was a bigot, but hey, if you are sure, I will take my medicine

(obviously homophobes are NOT generally male) [/B]

Apart from a response to a post by you in my first paragraph, I make no reference to you whatsoever.

Again, another example of a 'knee-jerk' reaction.

And, as for your statement concerning 'homophobes' - I wouldn't know - although, I tend to believe that many homophobes are reacting to their own inner fears of being homosexual. Having had many friends (both male and female), whilst living on the West Coast (Canada) and elsewhere, who were hetero, bi or homosexual, I find that the majority who HAVE to assert their sexuality ARE homosexual. To me, one's sexuality is only a part of one's being - and to be defined by it, I find rather sad and limiting.

and I cant take a joke either

Originally posted by LouiseB
and I cant take a joke either

And I, silly me, thought that this was a serious topic - not egotistical lessons in self-gratification.

By the way, Zamo, spot-on about 'politically correct' control zealots.

ps. hope to meet some of you good-folk this evening.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
Apart from a response to a post by you in my first paragraph, I make no reference to you whatsoever.

Again, another example of a 'knee-jerk' reaction.

And, as for your statement concerning 'homophobes' - I wouldn't know - although, I tend to believe that many homophobes are reacting to their own inner fears of being homosexual. Having had many friends (both male and female), whilst living on the West Coast (Canada) and elsewhere, who were hetero, bi or homosexual, I find that the majority who HAVE to assert their sexuality ARE homosexual. To me, one's sexuality is only a part of one's being - and to be defined by it, I find rather sad and limiting.

I am sorry, I genuinely thought you were referring to me with the whole of your post

and I agree re latent homosexuality being a logical potential cause of homophobia and have said so before in here

I am not sure why we are fighting or what over but I now feel genuinely hurt.

Originally posted by LouiseB
I am sorry, I genuinely thought you were referring to me with the whole of your post

and I agree re latent homosexuality being a logical potential cause of homophobia and have said so before in here

I am not sure why we are fighting or what over but I now feel genuinely hurt.

We are not fighting Louise - we are discussing (quid pro pro - as Anthony Hopkins would say to Clarice).

If you are hurt - then don't be - there is nor was any intent to hurt. I look forward to meeting you.

'Over and out' - as we used to say in the RAF.

I don't agree with the homophobic tendencies cause by latent homosexuality at all!

Apart form the fact that i have never met anybody who has been closeted at any time that has homophobic tendencies. I have met many homophobes, but non of them have ever come out. I really have seen no evidence of that at all.

Apart from that, even if it is something that happens, is homosexuality THE CAUSE. or is the fact they had to repress their feelings the cause. The gay people i know who have had the biggest problem coming out have generally come from small towns where there is much ignorance. Some have had to keep it from their over masculine father, who has constantly berated gays. Being forced in to the closet IMO is the only thing that can be the cause.

Originally posted by back2basics
Is the fact they had to repress their feelings the cause. The gay people i know who have had the biggest problem coming out have generally come from small towns where there is much ignorance. Some have had to keep it from their over masculine father, who has constantly berated gays. Being forced in to the closet IMO is the only thing that can be the cause.

I would agree with you there

It would be people who were repressed and frightened, especially as you say, by fathers

or sergeants

etc

The reason i question it, is coming from Yorkshire i have known many guys and gals that have been brought up in situations like that. Not one has ever shown any homophobia. They have been very shy, un-confident people often very depressed, but never violent or abuse to gays. They would have to laugh at the homophobic jokes at home, in front of their parents... but when away form them it never continues.

I think that is a myth and i would go as far as saying it's a myth that originated from the gay community. How better to upset a homophobe than implying he is gay?

Speaking of people bashing gays... have you all seen this that Zamo posted (http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mid=BA6B773C-2486-4180-A810-C6F6F2C373A6). Disturbing ;)

You stirring things up eh DB?

No not at all. I just thought it was the funniest thing I've seen for ages. Tis on this page where Zamo posted his masterpiece (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&postid=29433&highlight=fanta%20shokata#post29433).

I just though it would ad a light hearted moment to the thread!

Originally posted by Zamo
... and obviously people of Balkan apprearance are NOT generally asylum seekers.

You are probably right but the self-righteous who live in politically correct glass-houses should never throw stones! Besides, it is so enjoyable watching you squirm as you try to defend your own deep-rooted bigoted, misandrist feelings!!;) :)

I wish we could swear on this website

Do you really feel like this?

Originally posted by back2basics
I think that is a myth and i would go as far as saying it's a myth that originated from the gay community. How better to upset a homophobe than implying he is gay?

It is interesting that you think it is a myth

It was if you remember a strong feature of the American Beauty film, which is probably what made me think of it.

I dont know why people are homophobic, I just wish they werent

Originally posted by LouiseB
I wish we could swear on this website

Do you really feel like this?
It's just a bit of teasing Louise. :)

You must admit you're not exactly a shrinking violet when it comes to voicing your opinion or correcting those less well endowed in terms of political correctness. It's just a dig back for the little man - so to speak!

Oh I would agree with you there, I always do my best to fight what I see as an ~ism

and I know that people call that being politically correct

I dont do it for political correctness reasons though, but because I believe in what I say, and this is a good place to practice it.

You already knew that though.

I could stop doing it, but then I think that in some sort of a way it is half the fun for us all isnt it, saying things that we know will be deliberately inflammatory to others.

Today though, for the first ever time, I felt something changed and it got personal and I have felt crap reading what some people have said about me and my views

Zamo, I dont think you meant what you said, I took it as being tongue in cheek because we have met and got on fine, but coupled with four other guys having a go at me, I dont feel the same warm glow today about being here as I usually do.

I'm with Louise on political correctness. Is it pc to stand up for people who cannot defend themselves, to protest when people use inappropriate language? I would have thought by now people would have got out of the habit of countering criticism by flinging accusations of political correctness around.

Originally posted by LouiseB
Oh I would agree with you there, I always do my best to fight what I see as an ~ism

and I know that people call that being politically correct

I dont do it for political correctness reasons though, but because I believe in what I say, and this is a good place to practice it.

You already knew that though.

I could stop doing it, but then I think that in some sort of a way it is half the fun for us all isnt it,

Today though, for the first ever time, I felt something changed and it got personal and I have felt crap reading what some people have said about me and my views

Zamo, I dont think you meant what you said, I took it as being tongue in cheek because we have met and got on fine, but coupled with four other guys having a go at me, I dont feel the same warm glow today about being here as I usually do.
I'm sure nobody wanted to extinguish your warm glow Louise. We were just having a little fun - my apologies if it got out of hand.

Agreed, it is fun to say things that we know will be deliberately inflammatory to others... that's why I would not want you to stop making your patronising, opinionated and misandrist postings (joke!).:lol: :lol:

If I can get away for a while tonight, I shall come to the SF bash and buy you a large one - we'll soon get that warm glow back!

Originally posted by Zamo
I'm sure nobody wanted to extinguish your warm glow Louise. We were just having a little fun - my apologies if it got out of hand.

Agreed, it is fun to say things that we know will be deliberately inflammatory to others... that's why I would not want you to stop making your patronising, opinionated and misandrist postings (joke!).:lol: :lol:

If I can get away for a while tonight, I shall come to the SF bash and buy you a large one - we'll soon get that warm glow back!

awww.........thanks *blush* - hope you do anyway, want to hear how you have got on making contact with other Eagles fans

I want to know what other forum readers think about Gay people. Myself being gay, it is very interesting to see other peoples thoughts and opinions, perhaps sparking some debates.

Also why does society seem to accept lesbians more than gay men? Could it be help from the porn industry? Is it seen less hardcore? less explicit? Or perhaps its down to the general fantasy of straight men - girl on girl

Help me try and figure this out, or tell me if you think i'm wrong.

Originally posted by max
I'm with Louise on political correctness. Is it pc to stand up for people who cannot defend themselves, to protest when people use inappropriate language? I would have thought by now people would have got out of the habit of countering criticism by flinging accusations of political correctness around.
Correcting people for using "inappropriate language" is one thing but what about when fncky thingmajig (sorry I can't remember your name!) said it was a Kosovan who tried to rob his house? He later admitted his description of the would-be thief should have been of "Balken origin" but that wasn't good enough for some who implied it was some sort of "Freudian slip", proving he was racist!

To my mind his "accusers" were deliberately focusing on a political correctness misdemeanour to try win the argument - it had nothing to do with standing up for people who can't defend themselves.

I don't consider people's sexuality when I meet or talk to them and that includes male/female. People are people.

IMO the reason that homophobic people have more of a problem with male on male sex is, apart from the latent homosexuality debated on another thread, the penetrative implications involved. Another reason may be that in Victorian times one activity was criminalised and the other wasn't. If apocryphal stories are to be believed this was because the prime minister of the day could not include it in the statue as Queen Vic would not accept that the practice happened.

I think the reason lesbians are more accepted does have a lot to do with the porn industry. It's quite a big male fantasy to see two girls together, although the lesbian action you see on a porn film is way off the mark I'm sure. Generally porn is made by men for men, their idea of what lesbians do is no doubt totally untrue but men like to think of lesbians as the girls they see in the vids.

Society has allowed this distortion to go on for a very long time, making lesbians acceptable to men and also women, although I'm not sure women have as much prejudice against homosexuals anyway.

I think the reason gay men aren't viewed in the same light is because straight men aren't turned on by the thought of two men in bed and I don't think many women are either. Straight men and women don't tend to watch gay porn etc...and so it hasn't become accepted by society.

I'm sure the porn industry isn't the only reason for the double standard though.

As for Lesbians being accepted more i would say it's part fantasy and part a perceived threat to masculinity.

I think the BIG question about this subject is always going to be genetic or lifestyle? I firmly believe in genetic pre-disposition, but i have known many people (some being gay) who don not think so. I have met gay people who are angry when you suggest gay men are slightly different genetically than a hetro male. I think it's because homophobes use that and make it in to an argument for being gay being a genetic flaw, not sure.

'Victorian times one activity was criminalised and the other wasn't.'

Great point, but can we not trace it back even further? Like the bible, wern't these laws based on opinions created by the bible?

There is no talk of lesbianism in the bible to my knowlege.

Originally posted by Zamo
Correcting people for using "inappropriate language" is one thing but what about when fncky thingmajig (sorry I can't remember your name!) said it was a Kosovan who tried to rob his house? He later admitted his description of the would-be thief should have been of "Balken origin" but that wasn't good enough for some who implied it was some sort of "Freudian slip", proving he was racist!

To my mind his "accusers" were deliberately focusing on a political correctness misdemeanour to try win the argument - it had nothing to do with standing up for people who can't defend themselves.
I'm with Zamo on this one Max.

It seems that sometimes people use political correctness in an attempt to accuse another forum member as racist, just because he/she didn't use a term deemed 'more appropriate' by the government.

In the end, over political correctness causes more barriers between races than actaul racism itself.

Some people use the term black to discribe the colour of someone skin. Others use the term coloured. Coloured was uses for many many years, until it was deemed not PC and we should use black instead.

I actually prefer ther term black instead of coloured but I wouldn't call someone racist becuase they used 'coloured'!

Originally posted by Zamo
Correcting people for using "inappropriate language" is one thing but what about when fncky thingmajig (sorry I can't remember your name!) said it was a Kosovan who tried to rob his house? He later admitted his description of the would-be thief should have been of "Balken origin" but that wasn't good enough for some who implied it was some sort of "Freudian slip", proving he was racist!

To my mind his "accusers" were deliberately focusing on a political correctness misdemeanour to try win the argument - it had nothing to do with standing up for people who can't defend themselves.

This whole debate is based on standing up for people who cannot defend themselves. If that's political correctness then I'm guilty.

Nobody has answered my question about how do you distinguish people of Balkan origin fron people of neighbouring country origin. Probably because no-one can.

As for the other bit, fndky was accused of repeating racist views not of being a racist. Read the threads.

DB I wouldn't accuse anybody of being racist if they used the term coloured, neither would I expect them to accuse me of being politically correct for pointing out that it's a dated term no longer used.

I have straight, gay, lesbian and bisexual friends - we're all just people at the end of the day - who gives a toss about sexual orientation??? Seems to me the people who are against it are the ones who aren't content with themselves. Just my 2p.

There is no shortage of debates about gays and lesbians on here, believe me!

I have half a dozen male friends who are gay, I cant think of any lesbian friends, in fact I am not sure I know any.

That is either because I am unobservant, or there arent many in my circles.

I dont know that I would want to generalise really about how I feel about gay people. I like people, whatever their sexuality.

I suppose if I am absolutely honest I see it as being a piece of information on a par with which football team someone supports, what they do for a living and which town they were born in, it is a piece of information that added to other pieces, helps me to form a picture on this person.

That is probably insulting....if so I beg forgiveness.

(I will admit to occasionally being fed up when a fanciable bloke turns out to be gay, that is when it carries the most significance)

I agree with max.

Someone's sexuality is not of any of my concern when I meet another person. One of my good friends is a Gay man and I didn't know he was gay for at least the first 6 months of knowing him.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Why should it. You like who you like. So what!

Originally posted by LouiseB
... Today though, for the first ever time, I felt something changed and it got personal and I have felt crap reading what some people have said about me and my views...[/B]

If you air your views publicly - then you should have the grace to accept criticism. Surely, if so many people disagree with you, then it may suggest that you hold the wrong view.

As they say: 'If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen'. The wiles of women, when in some kind of distress, never fail to amaze me.

'but that wasn't good enough for some who implied it was some sort of "Freudian slip", proving he was racist!'


Sorry fella but that is not what happened at all. I think you owe me an apology now. Thats not why i was saying what he said could be read as being rasist at all! AND i made it very clear in the thread exactly why i made any form of link. But i didn't even call him rasist.

So rather than being PC, just try to be correct. And understand the difference between calling somebody something and saying what they said could be taken as being rasist.

I have no problem with anyones sexuality, as long as they dont enforce it on me or anyone else for that, just as the same for religion. I have no problem with any religion as long as people dont thrust it down my throat.

Everyone has a right to do whatever they like with there life and finding there sexuality forms part of it.

As for the lesbian thing and how its a mans fantasy, I believe this is a load of rubbish, its not mine, I think it mainly stems from hype and boyish peer pressure.

Seeing two lesbians or gays getting off does nothing for me.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
If you air your views publicly - then you should have the grace to accept criticism. Surely, if so many people disagree with you, then it may suggest that you hold the wrong view.

As they say: 'If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen'. The wiles of women, when in some kind of distress, never fail to amaze me.

Like the few people who disagreed with, and stood out against, the holocaust, perhaps?

And as for the dig about wiles of women, I would have expected better of you Carl.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
If you air your views publicly - then you should have the grace to accept criticism. Surely, if so many people disagree with you, then it may suggest that you hold the wrong view.

As they say: 'If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen'. The wiles of women, when in some kind of distress, never fail to amaze me.

I did accept criticism, four times I said I was sorry and conceded the argument, and that was before you put your boot in.

which means you are obviously a bully

Originally posted by back2basics
'but that wasn't good enough for some who implied it was some sort of "Freudian slip", proving he was racist!'


Sorry fella but that is not what happened at all. I think you owe me an apology now. Thats not why i was saying what he said could be read as being rasist at all! AND i made it very clear in the thread exactly why i made any form of link. But i didn't even call him rasist.

So rather than being PC, just try to be correct. And understand the difference between calling somebody something and saying what they said could be taken as being rasist.
Is this the post in question? (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&postid=33595#post33595)

And I quote:
Originally posted by back2basics
He could have been of Kosovo decent and born in England. The Genetics would still be Kosovo if both his parents were from Kosovo. There are a hundred different connotations to this. But the guy didn't WANT to think about the other options even if he did think it looked Kosovo... he CHOSE not to think about other options, and again that says quiet a bit. That TO ME is rasism.

Note the end saying... ''That TO ME is racism'' (spelt rasism).
This could be a reason for it B2B.

Just an observation!

Originally posted by back2basics
'but that wasn't good enough for some who implied it was some sort of "Freudian slip", proving he was racist!'


Sorry fella but that is not what happened at all. I think you owe me an apology now. Thats not why i was saying what he said could be read as being rasist at all! AND i made it very clear in the thread exactly why i was i mad any form of link. But i didn't even call him rasist.

So rather than being PC, just try to be correct. And understand the difference between calling somebody something and saying what they said could be taken as being rasist.

The phrase "splitting hairs" comes to mind. You said To be fair i didn't actually call you a racist. I said what you are doing is the kind of behaviour i would call racist. Too subtle a difference for me!

Originally posted by max
... And as for the dig about wiles of women, I would have expected better of you Carl. [/B]

I was simply getting a dig in to counter-balance the many anti-male statements that have appeared throughout this thread. But, I stand by my statement - and I am sure that it IS the experience of many men.

And, ask for 'getting a boot in' (I don't even wear them, except for Carl Warking), and 'being a bully' - what hyperbole.

As far as political correctness is concerned - I see it as a very dangerous attitude - as it stifles free speech and debate.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
I was simply getting a dig in to counter-balance the many anti-male statements that have appeared throughout this thread. But, I stand by my statement - and I am sure that it IS the experience of many men.

And, ask for 'getting a boot in' (I don't even wear them, except for Carl Warking), and 'being a bully' - what hyperbole.



You were getting a dig in as opposed to a boot in then

It is all the same to me

An unnecessary personal attack on someone you dont know from Eve and I am not anti-male, some of my best friends are male
LMAO

Originally posted by max
Nobody has answered my question about how do you distinguish people of Balkan origin fron people of neighbouring country origin. Probably because no-one can.
Come on Max who ya kidding? What, do all foreigners look the same to you?!?!

When you walk along the street are you honestly telling me you can't tell who is from the Balkans? What, you don't think they have different facial characteristics to their northern neighbours in Germany and Austria? No different from Turks or Greeks in the south? Admittedly, it's not easy to discribe the differences in words but that doesn't mean they don't exist!

Agreed, you can never be 100% certain that someone is an asylum seeker from the Balkan just by looking at them. That said, it doesn't mean fnkysknky was out of order saying the person trying to break into his house from from the Balkans. I'd guess it is probably 98% certain he is right because you CAN tell the difference. If "the balance of probability" is good enough to convict someone of a crime then surely 98% certain is good enough for a forum posting?

Originally posted by mikey
I have no problem with anyones sexuality, as long as they dont enforce it on me or anyone else for that, just as the same for religion. I have no problem with any religion as long as people dont thrust it down my throat.

Everyone has a right to do whatever they like with there life and finding there sexuality forms part of it.

Seeing two lesbians or gays getting off does nothing for me.

I feel the exact same way as you mikey :) on all counts.

Originally posted by Zamo
Come on Max who ya kidding? What, do all foreigners look the same to you?!?!

When you walk along the street are you honestly telling me you can't tell who is from the Balkans? What, you don't think they have different facial characteristics to their northern neighbours in Germany and Austria? No different from Turks or Greeks in the south? Admittedly, it's not easy to discribe the differences in words but that doesn't mean they don't exist!

Agreed, you can never be 100% certain that someone is an asylum seeker from the Balkan just by looking at them. That said, it doesn't mean fnkysknky was out of order saying the person trying to break into his house from from the Balkans. I'd guess it is probably 98% certain he is right because you CAN tell the difference. If "the balance of probability" is good enough to convict someone of a crime then surely 98% certain is good enough for a forum posting?

I defy anyone not from that area to tell the difference between a Macedonian and a Greek. They used to be the same nation but one is now considered in the Balkans.

Originally posted by RPG
I feel the exact same way as you mikey :) on all counts.
What? :? Even the bit about "it does nothing for me to see 2 lesbians getting off together"?

Originally posted by max
I defy anyone not from that area to tell the difference between a Macedonian and a Greek. They used to be the same nation but one is now considered in the Balkans.
Well that's helped. At least we can now be fairly certain the buglar probably wasn't from Macedonia!

Probably Kosovan then (joke!)!?!?!;) :)

Originally posted by LouiseB
You were getting a dig in as opposed to a boot in then

It is all the same to me

An unnecessary personal attack on someone you dont know from Eve and I am not anti-male, some of my best friends are male
LMAO

If you cannot distinguish between 'a personal attack' which I strongly deny - and ' a rebuttal of your statement(s)', then, sorry, but that is your problem - not mine.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
If you cannot distinguish between 'a personal attack' which I strongly deny - and ' a rebuttal of your statement(s)', then, sorry, but that is your problem - not mine.

You said in your own words that you were "getting a dig in"

That means it was personal

You didnt say you were rebutting my statements at the time. I hadnt made any statements for you to rebut. I had already apologised and conceded and rescinded, to the point of editing my own posts.

Strongly deny all you like

It was a personal attack

Originally posted by LouiseB
You said in your own words that you were "getting a dig in"

That means it was personal

You didnt say you were rebutting my statements at the time. I hadnt made any statements for you to rebut. I had already apologised and conceded and rescinded, to the point of editing my own posts.

Strongly deny all you like

It was a personal attack

Now you confuse a 'criticism' with a 'personal attack' - I say, again:'What hyperbole'.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
Now you confuse a 'criticism' with a 'personal attack' - I say, again:'What hyperbole'.

If it "feels" like a personal attack, then it is a personal attack

I am not exaggerating when I say it felt like a personal attack, I am stating a fact.

Entry: attack
Function: noun
Definition: verbal assault
Synonyms: abuse, aggression, belligerence, blame, calumny, censure, combativeness, criticism, denigration, denunciation, impugnment, libel, pugnacity, slander, vilification
Antonyms: defense
Concept: criticizing
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2003 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

Originally posted by LouiseB
If it "feels" like a personal attack, then it is a personal attack


Wow! The arguments of rebuttal to that statement, just within the realm of 'linguistic philosophy', are numerous - and, in other areas, such as psychology, well ... I'm in awe.

Originally posted by Carlwarker
I'm in awe.

Good, and I'm in my coat, will be at the Classic Rock in ten minutes

See you all later

Originally posted by LouiseB
Good, and I'm in my coat, will be at the Classic Rock in ten minutes ...

Sorry, but I’m going there, about 8pm, to meet people, not to carry on with, what has now become, unfortunately, personal debate.

Your protestations, and this is a personal criticism, not an attack, remind me of ‘the point’ in Edwin A. Abbott’s beautiful essay in multi-dimentional geometry: ‘Flatland: A romance of many dimensions’

http://www.alcyone.com/max/lit/flatland/

All it can say is ‘Me, me, me …’

Now it’s ‘shower’-time folks, to mis-quote Roy Scheider in ‘All That Jazz’..

Have to agree with carlworker here. LouiseB u seem able to 'dish it' but not 'take it'. You criticise people on here all the time because their views differ from your own, assuming that you are RIGHT and everyone else is wrong. Now that someone has dared to criticise you, you blow it out of all precaution and cry personal attack and abuse.

Originally posted by t020
Have to agree with carlworker here. LouiseB u seem able to 'dish it' but not 'take it'. You criticise people on here all the time because their views differ from your own, assuming that you are RIGHT and everyone else is wrong. Now that someone has dared to criticise you, you blow it out of all precaution and cry personal attack and abuse.


Hey, listen to the pot calling the kettle! LouiseB has apologised for her comment made at the start of this thread, but other posters have antagonised her throughout and ever since. There's only so much apologising a person can make and if continually nagged about something, a person is going to start to stick up for themselves.

I think that much of the general publics attitude to gay men stems from

a) AIDS as it is homosexual men who pass this on through their sexual activities rather than lesbians.

b) Gay men having a reputation for being promiscuous and the old backs against the wall attitude of straight men who think that all gay men will fancy them.

Me, I don't have a problem with anybody's sexuality. Hetro, homo,bi,curious or whatever so long as both agree.

As long as they don't display their.... 'affections' in public then I have no problem with them. I think the main problem that straight men have with gay men is the thought of putting it up where it doesn't belong. Thats the main problem I have. I know people will slate me for being a 'homophobe' etc etc, but at least I'm honest and I can honestly say the thought of it sickens and disgusts me.

Originally posted by t020
As long as they don't display their.... 'affections' in public then I have no problem with them. I think the main problem that straight men have with gay men is the thought of putting it up where it doesn't belong. Thats the main problem I have. I know people will slate me for being a 'homophobe' etc etc, but at least I'm honest and I can honestly say the thought of it sickens and disgusts me.

Funny how so many men desire anal sex with women though.....

I am almost positive this thread is about to be pulled

but for what it is worth

I think both T020 and Alchresearch or whatever your name is love, sorry I cant remember but know it when I see it....

are probably both talking about common experience

In my mind it just demonstrates what a weird world we live in

Cant believe you both got to say what you both got to say without an automatic text scanner pulling both messages

Wouldnt have happened on my site I dont think, not if my auto thingy was working anyway

LOL

Louise
x



PS......me, agree with T020? surely not?
No probably not, but having said that, it echoed what I already thought to be the case, even if I dont personally subscribe to that view.

No, we can't possibly criticise Queen Louse can we? Shes above and beyond that, and of course, shes free to dish it all out as she chooses.

Originally posted by t020
No, we can't possibly criticise Queen Louse can we? Shes above and beyond that, and of course, shes free to dish it all out as she chooses.

When you have had the guts to turn up at a Forum event and meet me and look me in the eye, then you can say your piece, until then laddy, you are entirely on your own and whistling into a very long and very dark tunnel

Otherwise translated as "When you are big enough" I am sure that you will have heard that phrase regularly at your prep school.

Okay?

I am not the queen and I do not dish it out and I always say when I am wrong

How unlike the life of our dear bigot

Oh I forgot

I am not supposed to use threads to carry out personal conversation

and neither are you

so you had better PM me

If your mummy and daddy will let you

Originally posted by LouiseB
I think both T020 and Alchresearch or whatever your name is love, sorry I cant remember but know it when I see it....

are probably both talking about common experience


Not experienced it either way (for want of a better phrase), but it gets regular coverage in FHM.

Thanks to the mods for not pulling or editing the thread. I wanted to word it better but couldn't really think how.

(PS It's 'Alch' or Andy!)

Originally posted by LouiseB
When you have had the guts to turn up at a Forum event and meet me and look me in the eye, then you can say your piece, until then laddy, you are entirely on your own and whistling into a very long and very dark tunnel

Otherwise translated as "When you are big enough" I am sure that you will have heard that phrase regularly at your prep school.

Okay?

I am not the queen and I do not dish it out and I always say when I am wrong

How unlike the life of our dear bigot

And I thought this was a forum. Nobody told me of a clause whereby you had to attend the meet ups to post, but if this is the case, say goodbye to over 1000 members.

Apologies on the somewhat harsh nature of the original post. I got wound up and allowed things to get to me, and offer you a wholehearted and sincere apology. My only wish is that you forgive me.

Originally posted by t020
Whos the one throwing insults like a baby though?

BOOHOO Louise, people dared to disagree with you. DEAL with it, get over it, you sanctimonious, patronising, condescending cow.

That is bang out of order.

Didn't you read this...

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/terms.php

I have quoted your offensive post before you can edit/delete it. What you have written violates the terms and conditions of this forum.

Sheessh somebody help me out here I don't have the words.....

A copy of this thread as it stood has been forwarded to geoff.

Well out of order there t020, and as you know, its not the first time (even in this very thread!)

I lost my temper and regret what I said. I have made apologies to the relevant parties. This will be my last post on this forum. Its been nice knowing you, goodbye and good luck. :(

Spare him his life from this monstrosity

I have made my peace with T020 and I would not want him to leave on my behalf

Last night I logged on when I had had a few glasses of wine, not a good idea and the first (and I hope last) time I shall

I said some really bitchy hardass things that deserved all the response I got back

It wasnt really T020 I was mad with, as those of you who know me will know

And we have kissed and made up, so Geoff and Mods if you are listening, if it is only down to me that you decide to discipline T020, dont do it on my behalf

I am penitent

I believe he is penitent

The grown up thing would be to let it go

.....from Small Corners
Louise
x