Recent government initiatives giving teachers 10% of their working time off for planning,preparation and assessment reduces their pupil contact even further.

What other job gets 13 weeks paid holiday per year, 5 extra days away from the classroom for training purposes, an approx working day of 6 hours (out of which breaktimes and lunch can then be subtracted)? Then minus all the days when it snows ans/or the boiler breaks down ;)

All this and then they are being given a further 10% off for PPA.

I know that teaching is a very demanding job but it is not exclusively so. With the working terms and conditions they already have are they being greedy wanting more? ;)

Your talking about the time spent actually teaching - what about marking, assessing, preparing lessons doing paperwork etc. etc etc.?

I have to say that during the time I spent as Chair of Governors some years ago the work load of teachers seemed pretty reasonable.

Whilst they do get the holidays, they're also expected to do stuff like lesson planning, etc. in that time as well as during term time.

I do feel that teacher's time isn't wisely used, however - link in the Police and Health Srevices there seems to be too much paper work done by teh front line practitioners that would probably better be done by clerks and support staff.

Joe

It's funny how no-one understands this.

The children are in school from 8.50am to 3pm. I can't speak for all teachers but I am in school from 7.45am until 5.30pm.

During breaktimes I manage to grab a cup of tea and I take it back to my classroom where I prepare for the next lesson. Lunchtimes, eat lunch as quickly as possible and prepare for the next lesson whilst dealing with any incidents that arise in the playground and making sure the children eat their dinner and are ok in general.

When I get home I work until 9pm marking, planning and making sure assessments are up to date.

I spend at least half my holidays working at home, then I go into my classroom to put up new displays and prepare it for the next half term.

I don't get PPA time and when I do I don't feel it will be that helpful to me, I will have to prepare a lessons for other people to teach - in more detail than I plan for myself, then I will have to talk that person through what I want to happen - I might as well teach it myself.

It is a really stressful job. I used to think like many non-teachers do. Its demanding on time and energy - by 3pm I am utterly exhausted but I do what I do because I love it and I want to make learning as exciting as accessible as I possibly can. I'm not complaining at all. I just want people to try and understand, but I guess you can't - unless you've been there.

Teachers need the holidays and so do the children. Some people need to appreciate what teachers do a little more.

Well said Starsar - I worked as an Admin Manager in a secondary school for nine years and I can fully appreciate everything that teachers do. I have nothing but admiration for them.

If it is such a easy job why is there a shortage of teachers???

Originally posted by starsar
It's funny how no-one understands this.

The children are in school from 8.50am to 3pm. I can't speak for all teachers but I am in school from 7.45am until 5.30pm.

During breaktimes I manage to grab a cup of tea and I take it back to my classroom where I prepare for the next lesson. Lunchtimes, eat lunch as quickly as possible and prepare for the next lesson whilst dealing with any incidents that arise in the playground and making sure the children eat their dinner and are ok in general.

When I get home I work until 9pm marking, planning and making sure assessments are up to date.

I spend at least half my holidays working at home, then I go into my classroom to put up new displays and prepare it for the next half term.

I don't get PPA time and when I do I don't feel it will be that helpful to me, I will have to prepare a lessons for other people to teach - in more detail than I plan for myself, then I will have to talk that person through what I want to happen - I might as well teach it myself.

It is a really stressful job. I used to think like many non-teachers do. Its demanding on time and energy - by 3pm I am utterly exhausted but I do what I do because I love it and I want to make learning as exciting as accessible as I possibly can. I'm not complaining at all. I just want people to try and understand, but I guess you can't - unless you've been there.

Teachers need the holidays and so do the children. Some people need to appreciate what teachers do a little more.

I would say that if you are actually in school for those hours then you are the exception to the rule.

Sorry but you are not expected to supervise children at lunchtime when dinnerladies and lunchtime support staff are employed to do just that.

You certainly shouldn't by now be putting up displays, I think that the NUT would be most upset at hearing that, as this is one of the functions that the teachers I know have been told NOT to do.

If your teaching assistant happens to be employed on a higher level grade then they can and will, in many cases be required to plan,present and mark the lesson so I think that you are over reacting somewhat.

I will concede that the job is bogged down with paperwork these days which hopefully after a change of government in May will alter.

Originally posted by Mo
I would say that if you are actually in school for those hours then you are the exception to the rule.


In my experience, the opposite is true. Most teachers are in school for those hours. Teaching is an extremely demanding job. My mum has been in school every day of the Easter break so far, completing marking, preparing new lessons and constructing displays (which, as far as I understand, are her responsibility). I won't add anymore except to say that Starsar's post seems reflective of a typical teacher's day to me. The job extends far beyond the hours of 9am til 3pm.

Originally posted by Cake
Well said Starsar - I worked as an Admin Manager in a secondary school for nine years and I can fully appreciate everything that teachers do. I have nothing but admiration for them.

If it is such a easy job why is there a shortage of teachers???

Thank you

Another point to think about.
People have a lot of sympaphy with the police as they are sometimes in confrontational situations. However , there's usually more than one of them when this happens and they can normally take some action to defend themselves , should the situation turn ugly.
Acting is another stressful job---especially if you're on stage all the time ! Will the audience understand me ? Will they like me ? Will they kill me !
Now a teacher is a bit of an actor and a bit of a policeman-----except he can't physically do very much , if attacked , and even has to be careful what he says-----ALL DAY ! Not just a few minutes here and there. Even if a class is not aggresive or violent , a bored class is awful to teach and this is where the "acting " part comes in------and ALWAYS ON "STAGE"--no nipping off to the dressing room !
Some unfortunate teachers have to suffer abuse of one type or another all day , every day , plus the threats of violence. Their room for manoevre is practically zero. Even the lucky ones are always under close scrutiny and sometimes don't have the support of the Head or Admin. who are scared of the parents or the DoEE.
On top of marking and preparation , what about all the pointless , boring meetings they have to attend ? No wonder a lot of teachers have stopped running clubs after school----and that was a great way to build up good relationships with the students.
No---not an easy job , at all.

I work in school.

I am a Teaching Assistant.

I work my butt off all day.

I know exactly what a teacher's job entails.

I get paid a lot less than the teachers.

Would I swap jobs? Not on your life! I would be jealous of teachers if the 'let's knock teachers' brigade were right. They're not right,........ far from it.

13 weeks paid holiday? Where did people get that from? Which school is this then?

It's such a simple job that people are queueing up for the job aren't they!!!

:rant:

Originally posted by TracieJC
I won't add anymore except to say that Starsar's post seems reflective of a typical teacher's day to me. The job extends far beyond the hours of 9am til 3pm.

One of my bestest buddies is a teacher at EdwardVII in Sheff, and I barely get to see him due to the workload he has.

No way is he underworked.

He does not seem to have much time for himself without spreading it out amongst friends.

I don't know if you noticed mo, but there was a piece in the news not that long ago about how much unpaid overtime different jobs do per week. Teachers at no.1 with 11hrs 36mins unpaid overtime per week.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4273169.stm

Teachers are definitely not under-worked. Anyone who thinks so in my opinion can have very little knowledge of how demanding, stressful and time consuming teaching is. The nominal working hours and holiday entitlements bear no relation to the number of hours actually worked. Anyone who thinks teaching simply involves turning up for classes and then going home is deluding themselves. Even when teachers have some free time, they often need to spend it recovering from the stress induced by having to deal with unruly and boisterous kids throughout the working day (and increasingly also aggressive, obnoxious and unreasonable parents also).

How can a teacher be under worked.? Just multiply an ordinary family of children by 12 . Which is roughly the amount of children in her care. How can this be easy?
Teacher's have to spend a great ceal of their teaching time trying to instill some sort of discipline into children that have been let run wild by their parents Lots of children nowdays do not know the word NO , and until they realise she means what she says, she cannot begin to teach.
Hazel

Id also agree with starsar. My mum was a teacher, and a couple of my friends are teachers too and the "average day" appears pretty close to their reality - I think the very fact that there is this "6hr day and 13 weeks off" perception just adds to the stress of the job.

Its not a cushy number - theres no way I could do it. Are there any teachers out there who DO think its an easy ride? Like cake said - if its such an easy job, why is there a shortage?

I dont think reducing contact time is the answer either - there needs to be a reduction in the paperwork, the relentless testing, and the enormous level of government interference in the way teaching is carried out. No other profession suffers from such obstructive central micromanagement (or does it ? ...)

Good points Hazel. teachers used to be respected both inside and outside the classroom. Social changes over the last generation or so have meant that teachers are often the easy targets of unruly and undisciplined kids who get little if any training in restrained or even civilised behaviour at home. Most of the disciplinary sanctions they used to have to keep order have been removed. In their place a rights culture has emerged which gives pupils and their parents opportunities to initiate complaints processes against teachers on even the most trivial of grounds. To survive as a teacher these days you need almost superhuman powers of restraint and tolerence, as well as the powers of a social worker and diplomat, plus a very thick skin and great stamina. The day by day drip of stress inevtiably takes its toll on teachers, which is why the majority seek early retirement - and why so many younger members of the profession leave it to do something else.

I think teachers get paid a fair wage for the amount of work they do. They get a lot of holidays but take a lot of work home with them which probably levels itself out.

People choose to teach and they will get a lot more job satisfaction and stress than the normal worker.

Unfortunately they are made to teach a narrow curriculum and there are a lot of bad teachers out there who are more interested in making kids copy out of a book than actually Interacting and stimulating thought and learning.

Teachers also get very good benefits (pensions etc)

Basically, I hate teachers whining all the time. You chose to teach and I think all in all you get a fair pay for the hours of work you do. I completely disagree with the natural curriculum (idiot teach_ but that is another issue. (As are SATS.)

I spent yrs working in reception class in an infant school in a good area and for the first 3/4 wks on entering school we spent the time making them civilised. Then they could start to learn.
Just a firm kind No we don't do that, we do this.
It's not amagic wand that teachers have it's just damd hard work that a lot of parent s are npt prepared to do.
hazel

robbie - I don't know many teachers who 'whine' about their job but it is really anoying to hear people go on and on about how 'easy' we have it. It's far from easy, as many people have commented on in this thread! The rewards just about balance the downside(s) and the days they outweigh them are priceless, thats why I do it. Teachers are overworked because you get out what you put in. There is far too much paperwork, too much to distract from the job you are meant to do and hopefully someone who can do something about this will realise that soon.

Originally posted by Mo


A: Recent government initiatives giving teachers 10% of their working time off for planning,preparation and assessment reduces their pupil contact even further.

B: What other job gets 13 weeks paid holiday per year, 5 extra days away from the classroom for training purposes, an approx working day of 6 hours (out of which breaktimes and lunch can then be subtracted)? Then minus all the days when it snows ans/or the boiler breaks down ;)

C: All this and then they are being given a further 10% off for PPA.

D: I know that teaching is a very demanding job but it is not exclusively so. With the working terms and conditions they already have are they being greedy wanting more? ;)

In answer to Mo's initial post....

A: How can being given 10% of your time to do other necessary tasks be construed as 'time off'? Reduces their pupil contact time even further than what?

B: Which school only opens for 6 hours a day and gives the teachers 13 weeks off, paid? Do you know any teachers who take long breaks for coffee and lunch?

C: Since when was PPA time off? Do you mean like when checkout girls are filling shelves....that kind of time off?

D: In that case, ALL employees are greedy for wanting more!

Maybe the teacher-knockers should shadow a teacher for a year, 24hrs, 7 days, or even TRY to do the job unaided. Then, and only then, would they know what they're talking about.

Originally posted by starsar
It's funny how no-one understands this.

The children are in school from 8.50am to 3pm. I can't speak for all teachers but I am in school from 7.45am until 5.30pm.

During breaktimes I manage to grab a cup of tea and I take it back to my classroom where I prepare for the next lesson. Lunchtimes, eat lunch as quickly as possible and prepare for the next lesson whilst dealing with any incidents that arise in the playground and making sure the children eat their dinner and are ok in general.

When I get home I work until 9pm marking, planning and making sure assessments are up to date.

I spend at least half my holidays working at home, then I go into my classroom to put up new displays and prepare it for the next half term.

I don't get PPA time and when I do I don't feel it will be that helpful to me, I will have to prepare a lessons for other people to teach - in more detail than I plan for myself, then I will have to talk that person through what I want to happen - I might as well teach it myself.

It is a really stressful job. I used to think like many non-teachers do. Its demanding on time and energy - by 3pm I am utterly exhausted but I do what I do because I love it and I want to make learning as exciting as accessible as I possibly can. I'm not complaining at all. I just want people to try and understand, but I guess you can't - unless you've been there.

Teachers need the holidays and so do the children. Some people need to appreciate what teachers do a little more. try digging ditches for a living at half your wages and putting fifty hours a week in,my mates wife teaches kids and gets paid £ 123 a day, in a warm enviornment,plus holidays and baker days, she earns three times the amount some folk get for working in all weathers to make sure she and the kids can get to school, people who take up teaching obviously know the hours involved but its not actually physical work,thats why they are out most evenings in the broomhill area chatting about what a hard day they,ve had,a proper days work would probably put them on the sick regester for a month

Originally posted by depoix
try digging ditches for a living at half your wages and putting fifty hours a week in,my mates wife teaches kids and gets paid £ 123 a day, in a warm enviornment,plus holidays and baker days, she earns three times the amount some folk get for working in all weathers to make sure she and the kids can get to school, people who take up teaching obviously know the hours involved but its not actually physical work,thats why they are out most evenings in the broomhill area chatting about what a hard day they,ve had,a proper days work would probably put them on the sick regester for a month

try working hard at school getting a decent education, doing a 3 year degree and a 1 year pgce then go and get a decent job instead of digging ditches.

Everyone thinks they are hard done too, it's human nature, we all want more, more recognition, more time at home, more pay, in fact we probably all believe that we deserve it. Hell, I know that I should get paid more and that my travel time should be stood by the company.

My twopenn'orth.

I'm training to be a teaching assistant and I work lunchtimes at the same school. I have seen first hand what a marvelous job teachers do and what had work it is.

At the end of a 1hr 20 min lunchtime shift, I am more often than not, glad to go home! Sorting out the "Miss he's done this and she's said that" is exhausting work. To have that combined with planning and delivering lessons, supervising the children, supervising the trainees, doing your stint on lunchtime/playtime duty, organising lunchtime clubs such as dance etc, etc etc is a bloody hard job.

I take my hat off to them I really do. And when you get a class of 30 8 year olds, 7 of whom really do need 1-1 attention for either behavoural or learning difficulties but you get no extra money in the school budget for this so you just have to manage the best you can, I sometimes wonder how they cope.

Where would we be without teachers?

All digging holes for a living!

Originally posted by depoix
my mates wife teaches kids and gets paid £123 a day, in a warm enviornment,plus holidays and baker days, she earns three times the amount some folk get ...thats why they are out most evenings in the broomhill area chatting about what a hard day they,ve had,a proper days work would probably put them on the sick regester for a month

Hmmm...interesting post.

What's the catch? Is she a substitute teacher; one of those contracted 'standby' teachers who can earn over £400 per week?

I'd be surprised if fulltime teachers were earning anything like that salary.

Originally posted by Abdul
Hmmm...interesting post.

What's the catch? Is she a substitute teacher; one of those contracted 'standby' teachers who can earn over £400 per week?

I'd be surprised if fulltime teachers were earning anything like that salary.

Assuming that it's pre tax, that's £32000 a year roughly. Is it really that much.
A head of department will be on that much, a deputy head or head on more.
Saying that someone teaches kids doesn't tell us much really.

Anyone who thinks teachers have it cushy should put themselves in our shoes for a while. We get snowed under with red tape and paper work. I agree with Saxon, where do these people get the idea that we have 13 weeks holiday a year?

Originally posted by stevie1957
Anyone who thinks teachers have it cushy should put themselves in our shoes for a while. We get snowed under with red tape and paper work. I agree with Saxon, where do these people get the idea that we have 13 weeks holiday a year?

playing devils advocate a little bit (only a tad) from the fact that schools are closed (your place of work) for the 13 weeks of the year when the kids are on holiday.

Originally posted by Cyclone
playing devils advocate a little bit (only a tad) from the fact that schools are closed (your place of work) for the 13 weeks of the year when the kids are on holiday.

That is a classic comment…….so when the kids aren’t at school all the work stops???? All the course development stops……all the marking gets done on its own. There’s no staff development…we all go home for 13 weeks……:(

Later on today...while some of you will be enjoying bank holiday Monday.... I'll be marking students work that has to be moderated the week after next …then if I have time, I have to trial the new desk top publishing booklets that we are hoping to bring online……not to mention look at the new criteria for the word-processing……..

Originally posted by Cyclone
try working hard at school getting a decent education, doing a 3 year degree and a 1 year pgce then go and get a decent job instead of digging ditches.

Everyone thinks they are hard done too, it's human nature, we all want more, more recognition, more time at home, more pay, in fact we probably all believe that we deserve it. Hell, I know that I should get paid more and that my travel time should be stood by the company. i was using " digging ditches" as a metaphor, to suggest that a lot of people work a lot harder than teachers for less money.

if teachers are not happy with their working loads why do they take on the job? surely they must have understood the work system,the hours involved and the pay before they took the decision to be a teacher.

and regarding digging ditches ( something i have not done ) without these people there would be no schools for any one as a ditch is the first thing that has to be done to lay the foundations of a building.

Originally posted by depoix
i was using " digging ditches" as a metaphor, to suggest that a lot of people work a lot harder than teachers for less money.

if teachers are not happy with their working loads why do they take on the job? surely they must have understood the work system,the hours involved and the pay before they took the decision to be a teacher.

and regarding digging ditches ( something i have not done ) without these people there would be no schools for any one as a ditch is the first thing that has to be done to lay the foundations of a building.

i was simply pointing out that digging ditches requires no qualifications whereas teaching requires at least 5 years more education. Thus justifying higher pay.
Anyway, this thread hasn't been started or used by teachers to whinge at the workload. It was started by someone saying that they didn't work very hard. If someone said that about my job i'd make the time to explain how wrong they were. And I get paid more for less physical effort than a ditch digger as well.

The amount of sweat involved bears little resembalance to the value of the work, so your comment is disingeneous.

I think Depoix is confusing two types of hard work . comparing them when they are completely different.
I became a teacher at the age of 42 , after 4 years training and before that I'd had loads of different jobs ----building sites , factories , offices , the lot !
The most back - breaking job I ever had was picking early potatoes on a hillside in Jersey and picking daffodils all day didn't do wonders for your back either.
However , some of the jobs I did on building sites were almost relaxing----you just got into the rhythm of the thing.
Teaching , on a good day , can be better than any clerical job , I reckon , but can be horrendous if you have a few bad classes and no moral support.
A lot of teachers went into teaching because they actually love to convey information in an interesting way but have since discovered that they are expected to be nannies , social workers and probation officers as well as teachers.
The teaching unions , more interested in their own prestige than teachers , have let teachers down time and time again ---by rolling over and accepting all the c**p successive governments have thrown at the profession.
I'm sure teachers would hardly mention money if they could actually teach , instead of filling in stupid forms , attending moronic meetings , worrying about pointless targets and could actually take some effective action against the louts.

Originally posted by Cyclone
It was started by someone saying that they didn't work very hard.

No it was started by somebody who wanted to initiate a debate about something that really matters (which is becoming rarer by the day on this board) and has already started to happen in schools. I wanted it to be something that couldn't get hijacked by the bnp and it's baiters.

Most of us have children, grand children, nieces, nephews etc and therefore have links with the education system one way or another and as such are likely to have an opinion.

I think that I am well qualified to have an opinion on this one. I have two children myself and spent 5 years training to be a teacher. I taught for many years before having my family and in some ways the job is more difficult nowadays but in others it is easier.

Class sizes today tend to be smaller and there is support in the classroom which there never used to be.

The curriculum is prescriptive and rigid, which from a teachers point of view may not be as interesting to deliver but much easier to plan. The advent of the internet has given the teacher limitless resources which just were not available a 15 years ago.

The job is more difficult in terms of classroom management with detriorating behaviour amongst the children. There is also far too much box ticking to be done.

But overall, it's still a decent job and it would be deceitful to pretend otherwise. Everybody is overworked these days (a GP puts in an average of 60 hrs per week) but not all are rewarded with 13 weeks away from the chalk face. I am in contact with many of my fellow students who are still in the job and it is noy uncommon for them to go abroad for the whole of the six weeks holiday.

Originally posted by depoix
i was using " digging ditches" as a metaphor, to suggest that a lot of people work a lot harder than teachers for less money.

if teachers are not happy with their working loads why do they take on the job? surely they must have understood the work system,the hours involved and the pay before they took the decision to be a teacher.

and regarding digging ditches ( something i have not done ) without these people there would be no schools for any one as a ditch is the first thing that has to be done to lay the foundations of a building.

I'm not complaining, it's about understanding! Understanding that holidays aren't holidays - for most of us - though I do know some teachers who get to fly off to exotic locations every half term, they are few and far between!

The job conditions aren't as great as everyone thinks, but they aren't horrific. If you don't like your job conditions you fight for change - thats what teachers are doing. If I stopped enjoying this job I'd leave and do something else. There's no point moaning about things you can't change, you have to change the things you CAN change.

Most people don't understand the working conditions before they decide to become a teacher, that much is evident from some of the replies in this thread.

Just out of interest I HAVE dug ditches for a living, literally and it was a lot easier than teaching I didn't take my work home with me (muddy clothes aside!), the pay was terrible but I enjoyed the job(s) for a while, when I stopped enjoying it I left and found something else to do.

As with all jobs, it very much depends on the specific circumstances. Some schools can be absolute hell holes whereas others can be overall very pleasant to teach in.

Originally posted by stevie1957
That is a classic comment…….so when the kids aren’t at school all the work stops???? All the course development stops……all the marking gets done on its own. There’s no staff development…we all go home for 13 weeks……:(

Later on today...while some of you will be enjoying bank holiday Monday.... I'll be marking students work that has to be moderated the week after next …then if I have time, I have to trial the new desk top publishing booklets that we are hoping to bring online……not to mention look at the new criteria for the word-processing……..

no offence but lots of teachers take paid marking jobs over summer to earn extra money. There is an overflow on the over holidays (Xmas/Ester but not to any real extent in summer (a week maybe)

Originally posted by robbie
no offence but lots of teachers take paid marking jobs over summer to earn extra money. There is an overflow on the over holidays (Xmas/Ester but not to any real extent in summer (a week maybe)

Robbie, there will always be some teachers who don’t have a very large workload and have the luxury of being able to take on extra paid (marking) work. Part-time teachers for example. But some of these people take on additional marking even though their workload is high and frequently burn the midnight oil. I know one person who is doing this to help put her grown up children through University.

Originally posted by Mo
Recent government initiatives giving teachers 10% of their working time off for planning,preparation and assessment reduces their pupil contact even further.

What other job gets 13 weeks paid holiday per year, 5 extra days away from the classroom for training purposes, an approx working day of 6 hours (out of which breaktimes and lunch can then be subtracted)? Then minus all the days when it snows ans/or the boiler breaks down ;)

All this and then they are being given a further 10% off for PPA.

I know that teaching is a very demanding job but it is not exclusively so. With the working terms and conditions they already have are they being greedy wanting more? ;)

I'm a secondary teacher, I get to work at 7:25am every morning, I normally leave about 4:30pm though this can be later twice a week due to meetings. That makes a 9 hour day, which I count as an average working for the majority of people. I have my tea then will do some more work (planning and marking) for an hour or so (making a ten hour day). I rarely get break times or proper dinner hours. I'm quite happy to do this as it means I can enjoy my holidays. The more done it term time the less I have to do in the holidays though I always pop in for a few days during the hols.

I would love to spend more time planning and could easily do so as I reckon my lessons would be much better if I had the time to plan them more thoroughly but there is only so many hours in the day!

As for teachers taking on extra marking for more money during the holidays, I guess that will soon be a thing of the past as I'm sure in the next ten years the majority of exams will be sat at a computer and automatically marked.

.... and the training days... we still have to set the work and mark it even if a £120+ a day supply comes in to 'baby sit'.

I don't think teachers are greedy wanting more..tell me any job that people would turn down better conditions /pay?

Doesnt some of this debate hinge on the teacher themself?
I guess, as in other jobs, a teacher who is efficient, on the ball and good at time management can plan their time so that where possible, the school holidays can be just that.
I know that teachers do have to do some extra work in the school holidays, but 6 weeks in the summer would be a fantastic bonus to those of us who get the bog standard 23 days a year plus bank holidays.
I have to take my holidays in school holidays and pay for the rest of holidays in childcare costs so teachers also save on not having to pay childcare, and at 20 quid per day, that does add up.
Being a teacher does not always present you with a stress free life as I know that children with difficulties are extremely demanding but there are perks to the job aswell.
teachers have to be committed.It is the nature of their work, but there are others who are just as committed and do not get recognised for what they do

Originally posted by espadrille
I have to take my holidays in school holidays and pay for the rest of holidays in childcare costs so teachers also save on not having to pay childcare, and at 20 quid per day, that does add up.


I agree with all you say apart from above. Teachers HAVE to take their holidays in the school holidays and are therefore ripped off, cost of holiday wise.

Alternatively, most parents take their children on nice, cheap foreign holidays, at a fraction of the cost, in term-time. ;) (I know that they shouldn't, but they do)

Not this parent.
i do not believe in taking my kids out of school.They have enough time off as it is and cannot afford to miss any lessons

Originally posted by espadrille
Not this parent.
i do not believe in taking my kids out of school.They have enough time off as it is and cannot afford to miss any lessons

Good on you, but we are in a small minority you know.

Originally posted by
Doesnt some of this debate hinge on the teacher themself?
I guess, as in other jobs, a teacher who is efficient, on the ball and good at time management can plan their time so that where possible, the school holidays can be just that.
I know that teachers do have to do some extra work in the school holidays, but 6 weeks in the summer would be a fantastic bonus to those of us who get the bog standard 23 days a year plus bank holidays.
I have to take my holidays in school holidays and pay for the rest of holidays in childcare costs so teachers also save on not having to pay childcare, and at 20 quid per day, that does add up.
Being a teacher does not always present you with a stress free life as I know that children with difficulties are extremely demanding but there are perks to the job aswell.
teachers have to be committed.It is the nature of their work, but there are others who are just as committed and do not get recognised for what they do

I don’t think espadrille would be making the above comments if he/she was in our shoes. According to espadrille we get 6 full weeks off in the summer now. We are as efficient, on the ball and good at time management as we can possibly be, despite increasing workloads, red tape and paperwork.

A lot of teachers have childcare issues….you are not the only one.

Of course we realise that there are others who are just committed to their professions as teachers, but do not get the recognition. Nurses for example. Why have you brought that into it?

I would like to say “well done” to all who have responded to this thread. The replies have been constructive and friendly. Far too often I’ve seen threads descend into rants. It’s good to see that people can put their points of view over, and sometimes disagree, without it turning nasty. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by saxon51
I work in school.

I am a Teaching Assistant.

I work my butt off all day.

I know exactly what a teacher's job entails.

I get paid a lot less than the teachers.

Would I swap jobs? Not on your life! I would be jealous of teachers if the 'let's knock teachers' brigade were right. They're not right,........ far from it.

13 weeks paid holiday? Where did people get that from? Which school is this then?

It's such a simple job that people are queueing up for the job aren't they!!!

:rant:

I too like Saxon am a teaching assistant in a secondary school. Until I worked in this environment I knocked the teachers and their 'cushy' life. I now have a very different perspective and know from first-hand experience that teaching is damn hard work. You have to have a VERY special way with the kids to even get their attention let alone teach them anything.

My job is hard work most days. I deal with a wide range of kids and problems from students with Asperger's syndrome, ADHD, ADD, Morfan Syndrome, Neurofibromatosis, Turner Syndrome, EBD, Dyslexia amongst other kids with a cart- load of other issues. I am at the bottom line. The kids these days know their rights and play it for all they can get. Most of them have no basic manners and it takes a strong individual to deal with that. One disruptive child can affect a whole class of 30 +.

Would I teach? NO:gag:

Originally posted by missb
My job is hard work most days. I deal with a wide range of kids and problems from students with Asperger's syndrome, ADHD, ADD, Morfan Syndrome, Neurofibromatosis, Turner Syndrome, EBD, Dyslexia amongst other kids with a cart- load of other issues. I am at the bottom line. The kids these days know their rights and play it for all they can get. Most of them have no basic manners and it takes a strong individual to deal with that. One disruptive child can affect a whole class of 30 +.

Would I teach? NO:gag:
I have a child with Aspergers,dyspraxia and epilepsy.
I work full time as an employment worker, a job that is very demanding as not only do I deal with predudice from employers about taking on people with disabilities but also with the overprotectiveness of some parents and the job can be rewarding,as can teachers,but also stressful.
There is no huge union to fight our battles when we do not like something, we have to try and sort things out for ourselves.
We have a contract of employment, but as a charity,this can be a very uncertain thing.Having said all that, I love my job and am thankful each day that I can make a difference to peoples lives, who do not get that from any other section of society.
Surely, teachers are priveledge to be able to teach and enrich childrens lives with their knowledge and be role models ,and that impression stays with some children forever.
I think that whatever job you do, be positive about it and learn good time management skills,pat yourself on the back when you do something good,even if your bossess do not.
Some people think that teachers have an easy life.I know that it is not easy,all that I am saying is that there are some perks which others in society do not get

Sorry, I tried to do the quote bit on the part of my thread at the top, but it looks odd as it has not worked.
Hope it makes sense!

Just checked, and it does make sense , so ignore my last post

Originally posted by Mo
Sorry but you are not expected to supervise children at lunchtime when dinnerladies and lunchtime support staff are employed to do just that.

You'll find these are now becoming a dying breed. Support staff do not have the same union support when it comes to incidents with children.

I have often wondered how teachers cope with the kids at Abbeydale Grange (I am not saying this school is any different from many others). For all I know, it may be a haven of pedagogic tranquillity. However, I have travelled on the 97 bus several times at about 3.30 when it tends to be filled with pupils of this establishment. The school has a big sign outside referring to its values of excellence, which for.all I know may well be true. Well, if my experience as a bus passenger is anything to go by, the pupils on the buses at this time certainly excel in inconsiderate, aggressive, loutish behaviour of one kind or another, including swearing, screaming and shrieking. Of course it may be all just youthful exuberance after a hard days study - I hope so. But if their behaviour inside is similar to their behaviour outside, I don't know how their teachers cope on a daily basis.

Originally posted by LordChaverly
I have often wondered how teachers cope with the kids at Abbeydale Grange (I am not saying this school is any different from many others). For all I know, it may be a haven of pedagogic tranquillity. However, I have travelled on the 97 bus several times at about 3.30 when it tends to be filled with pupils of this establishment. The school has a big sign outside referring to its values of excellence, which for.all I know may well be true. Well, if my experience as a bus passenger is anything to go by, the pupils on the buses at this time certainly excel in inconsiderate, aggressive, loutish behaviour of one kind or another, including swearing, screaming and shrieking. Of course it may be all just youthful exuberance after a hard days study - I hope so. But if their behaviour inside is similar to their behaviour outside, I don't know how their teachers cope on a daily basis.

Sad to say, but what you see is a fair reflection at home time in comps all across the region. I see Westfield and Eckington turn out every day and believe me some of the kids are only borderline human. :gag: