A friend of mine has it in his head that all women hate and dislike him ... he's a very honest and genuine guy ... but for whatever reason he's always found it hard talking to ladies he likes (which has been very frustrating for him).

He feels he's in a negative spiral:

Nervous and afraid of women ... therefore ...
Can't relax and be his natural self with them ...
So they just react with hostility and cruelty ...
Which in turn re-enforces his belief that all women hate him.

He feels very distressed and anxious about this state of affairs ... he's been single for a very long time and would like nothing more than to just get on with women and be relaxed and comfortable in their company ... he does feel that a lot of them are just cruel heartless b***hes though (esp pretty ones he likes).

He also feels he can't talk to anyone about this problem (apart from me of course) ... because there are a lot of cruel heartless sarcastic people about who like nothing more than to take the **** and feel smug and superior because other people have difficulties they don't.

I really want to help him but I don't really know what advice to give.

Any suggestions?

You're single aren't you and you are worried about admitting it...no need mate, i'm exactly the same in a funny kinda way (Not single but find it hard to approach women) but anyway, if he/you can't do it face to face then get on a chat room, that's how I met my missus...we talked for years and then one day I came up here and we met up. I went back home and we kept in touch and then it became a regular journey and we just hit it off...

Although it's not always advisable to meet it can help you build confidence in talking to women cos let's face it, women can be the most un-approachable things on the planet...lol

I have a suggestion, dont let him ever meet me because I've been feeling similar lately! lol

the only thing I can think of is maybe introduce him to a female friend of yours after maybe explaining to her that he's had a lot of bad bust-ups (whether thats true or not doesnt matter, he's feeling the same as a guy that has had some bad breakups) and to keep her cool with him... whether she's interested in him at the end of the night doesn't matter, if he can have a nice convosation with a nice lady and her not be bitchy to him it might give him a little more confidence and maybe realise all women aren't bitches!

although I'm still tending to agree that there are a lot of cold heartless bitches out there same as there are guys out there the same, finding those nice women proves difficult sometimes :( but my new personal plan is to drag my arse out the house more often to random bars and just actually chat some women up, because I really bother these days... so any young blokes up for a night out lemme know and I'll join ya ;)

maybe he should try making friends with a girl instead of trying to pull them or viewing them as a potential pull.
If he can accept a girl as part of a social group (doesn't have to be just him n her) then he'll get to see them interacting with other people and realise a) that they aren't all bitches, b) see which approaches they like and which they laugh at.

Joining some sort of club that has women members and a regular social life would probably be the ticket.

He needs to make women part of his everyday life - we make up 50% of the population so it can't be that hard!

I find it difficult to understand how anyone can just socialise with people of the same sex because I've always had mixed friends and never been in that situation. But I don't want to sound like a cruel heartless b**** so I'll try...!

Your friend needs to make some girl mates. Not people he's trying to pull at this stage, just mates. I'm guessing he doesn't have a sister or much contact with women at the moment.

Some suggestions...

1) Drinking in a mixed group in the pub. Any females will do, friends, friends-of-friends, sisters, mates' sisters, ect. ect.

2) Talking to women as he goes about his daily business. Even saying hello to the woman behind the counter in his local shop would be a start.

3) Smiling and being friendly to girls, whenever and wherever. He might get some bad reactions from girls who think he's on the pull, but I'm sure he'll get some possitive feedback too.

4) Chatting to girls on internet forums like this. Chat forums would be better than dating forums at the moment though - less pressure!

5) Making use of any female contacts he has, even if it's just saying good morning to the girls at work or offering his mum's friend a cup of tea.

Wish him luck. He'll find us less scarey once he gets going!

JBee's got some great suggestions there.

I would just add that it might help your friend if he remembered that women are just fellow human beings who happen to be female. We have similar fears, hang-ups, concerns, etc as men - the details might differ, but ultimately we're all trying to impress other people, and frightened we're going to make a right mess of it. Some are better at covering up their insecurities than others, that's all.

Perhaps if your friend could look at women as people who could potentially enhance his life and make it more fun, rather than as 'prey' to be hunted? That would also make women more relaxed around him.

Unfortunately, a lot of women are bitches, but loads aren't. And a lot of men are b*st*rds - but there are loads of lovely blokes as well. The nasty people really mess things up for ALL the decent people, male and female!

Hope you think this advice is worth passing onto your friend.

Best wishes to him,

StarSparkle :)

hi, as the other two have said, were all just people and we're all different, true some are cows but men can be as bad. they dont hold back if they find fault with a girl, my daughters been in tears after having "thunder thighs" bellowed at her in the middle of the street, how shallow is that? shes a size 12 by the way!
its a harsh world out there nowadays, and you have to be tough to get through it, a bit like a smartie, hard on the outside but melty and lovely inside lol, we're all scared of each other and being hurt, often the ones who seem hard are the most scared, theyre just putting on a tough front.
its a thin line between being friendly and approachable and seeming like a stalker/idiot!
he could do worse then wander round a supermarket/phone shop/meadowhall and trying the odd comment such as " have you tried this? is it any good etc, to likely looking girls/women not to a group though they can be harsh when theyre hunting in packs lol!
we all have to start somewhere, its like practicing till he feels comfortable.
often a nightclub is a bad place to meet women they're usually just out for a laugh with their mates and get a bit too full on.
were also well aware that a lot of blokes just want the old 'hows your father' and that has consequences too. theres a great website called faceparty.co.uk he can join that and be anyone/gab to anyone and everyone, some nutters on it but they're everywhere . both my daughters have met fellas on there and been fine, they have 'meets' and loads of people who have never seen each other before descend on a town stay in hotels and have a laugh.
good luck to him, it may be a modern hi-tech world but we all still need friendship.

Originally posted by StarSparkle
JBee's got some great suggestions there.

I would just add that it might help your friend if he remembered that women are just fellow human beings who happen to be female. We have similar fears, hang-ups, concerns, etc as men - the details might differ, but ultimately we're all trying to impress other people, and frightened we're going to make a right mess of it. Some are better at covering up their insecurities than others, that's all.

Perhaps if your friend could look at women as people who could potentially enhance his life and make it more fun, rather than as 'prey' to be hunted? That would also make women more relaxed around him.

Unfortunately, a lot of women are bitches, but loads aren't. And a lot of men are b*st*rds - but there are loads of lovely blokes as well. The nasty people really mess things up for ALL the decent people, male and female!

Hope you think this advice is worth passing onto your friend.

Best wishes to him,

StarSparkle :)

Sparkle Sparkle Sparkle. There's absolutely no similarlity between men and women!! Men are simple creatrues. Football, Beer, Cars, Sex. What order depends on day and time. Simple.

Women .... they think shopping is a sport for a start. They think aubergine is a colour. Now wheres the simplicity there?

Cyclone hit the nail on the head. Years ago a female friend had the same trouble I told her to talk to men like they were just friends the same as any female friend and not to look at them as a potential partner.

She did this and became extremely confident - infact she took it a bit too far and became a man-eating nympho!

Tell your friend if women think he is not really interested in them physically they will become more relaxed around him which in turn will make him more relaxed and help build his confidence up.

If he puts trying to find a girlfriend on hold and concentrates on friendships more, he will find girls more attracted to him as he won't appear to be desperate and will come across as a self assured, confident easy to talk to man.

I have passed on all your messages on to my friend (!) ... and he wanted to thank you all for your great comments and ideas.

He said that he doesn't expect to get a GF or even a **** and that he wishes he could just relax and connect more with people in a non-threatening and friendly way (esp. with girls).

He has it in his head that:

a) Most people are tw@ts and cannot be trusted (he's been burned a few times before).

b) Other people are the 'enemy' and there is no scope for being friendly with people cos they just wanna hurt / harm / abuse you.

c) He feels he's worthless.

d) He feels girls despise him.

He's a very sensetive kinda guy !!! ... and clearly has some very self debilitating basic beliefs about himself and other people.

I've suggested that it may be best for him to forget the GF and try to relax around people ... talk to them and get to know them and make friends.

Is it appropriate for him to discuss his feelings of anxiety with other people !?

I think a bloke should have the guts to admit truths to himself and not pretend there is a second party laying the questions out on the table :)

I think he could possibly do with seeing a councillor, sounds like he's suffering from a little depression.

the worlds full of assholes, the world also has plenty of nice people too... I mean check out Deej here! ace bloke, makes me laugh like hell!

sure there are evil women, but there are plenty of nice women out there, unfortunatly all the ones I know are either too good a friend or taken... which is why I'm single, but I know I'll meet one soon :)

Originally posted by Deejay
I think a bloke should have the guts to admit truths to himself and not pretend there is a second party laying the questions out on the table :)

Sure.

Admiting truths to oneself is easy Deejay. I for one have no problems doing that ... I admit and own all the horrible nasty truths about myself.

Making yourself an easy target for all the riff-raff and scum on here (ok, it is a minority and most of you are lovely) is another matter all together.

Thirdly, the second party thing is something of a fun / parody kinda thing.

Hope nobody minds ...

Would you rather me just say "look at me, wot a totaly loser" !? (which I'm not of course)

Originally posted by Deejay
I think a bloke should have the guts to admit truths to himself and not pretend there is a second party laying the questions out on the table :)

And I think that a gentleman should take on board what someone else says as the truth until proven otherwise.

Joe :)

i hope im not going too far when i say that perhaps a session of counselling would help him? it sounds like a bit of low self esteem to me, it might not be helpful for him to be looking for a partner whilst he's feeling so vulnerable, it would be hard work for him and his new partner.
whereas a councillor can 'help you find your way' as it were. ive had councelling and it changed my life, its not about being crazy etc, it just that we all have 'stuff' to sort out in our heads at some time or other and a counsellor can help you wade through the bulls**t and see a clear path.
hope your friend feels better about himself soon, were all only human and vulnerable.

Don't mind at all Jamie, I think it takes a lot of courage for a guy to openly say what you did in the beginning of this thread.. All to often the 'Macho' gene kicks in with a lot of blokes..

Right, thats me done, back in to hibernation now :suspect:

Originally posted by JoePritchard
And I think that a gentleman should take on board what someone else says as the truth until proven otherwise

Ok I admit I could have phrased that a little better but I was just getting my point across and I hope that I haven't offended Jamie in anyway..

I always go with the upfront and honesty policy.. Probably a little to honest lately for my own good!

Sorry for any offence caused :)

Originally posted by Deejay
Don't mind at all Jamie, I think it takes a lot of courage for a guy to openly say what you did in the beginning of this thread.. All to often the 'Macho' gene kicks in with a lot of blokes..

Right, thats me done, back in to hibernation now :suspect:

Well ... I'm sure my friend would appreciate you saying so !! ;)

mmm obviously im a slow typer lol. if your ready to admit your troubles your half way there, it can be painful but if you recognise that its time for a 'sort out' you will be the better man for it. dont waste time like i did, some things are beyond sorting yourself.
just look forward to the whole, happy, philosophical self that your gonna become ;0)
dont let 'em grind you down,
im a woman an im fab :0)
in fact i might start a poll= click on here if your fab.
I wonder if people would click on the ' I'm horrible' button? sorry im rambling now its past my feeding time .

Originally posted by suzyoo
sorry im rambling now its past my feeding time .

So what we eating :heyhey:

Sorry.. I'm going now.. :help:

the idea of counselling doesn't sound bad, it sounds like a bit of depression as someone already said.

But at the same time, joining some sort of group activity, preferably one that also has a social side would help out. Being made to feel part of a group and having the chance to socialise with the club outside the activity would probably do wonders for his self esteem, even if he was the quiet guy who sat at the table and didn't talk very much (every group has one to one extent or another).

Counselling is a good idea, although ideally I think anyone in this sort of situation would be better off seeking some sort of behavioural therapy - the problem with many forms of counselling and similar humanist therapies is you are encouraged to talk at length about your past experiences and feelings, with little or no input as to how to go about actually changing inappropriate core beliefs (such as 'all people are tw**s'). I don't want to knock counselling at all - in many cases even just being able to talk freely is enough to help someone make very positive changes in their lives, however severe depression does make it more difficult to draw useful conclusions from therapy and sometimes you need a little help :) Most NHS surgeries have huge waiting lists for behavioural therapy, but I would still pop along and see your doctor if you've been feeling like this a while :(

Post removed

Originally posted by 2thin2swim
Saw this one comin a mile off...

Care to explain this? What is it you're trying to say?

This thread has had over 400 viewings. I find that a little worrying :(

Originally posted by Cyclone
maybe he should try making friends with a girl instead of trying to pull them or viewing them as a potential pull.
If he can accept a girl as part of a social group (doesn't have to be just him n her) then he'll get to see them interacting with other people and realise a) that they aren't all bitches, b) see which approaches they like and which they laugh at.

Joining some sort of club that has women members and a regular social life would probably be the ticket.

Something like southyorkshire spice (PM sandra spice) would be good. It's not a singles club, and they do all sorts of different outings and activities.

It should be far easier for 'him' if the focus of activity isn't to chat somebody up, but to actually do something that really takes 'his' mind off it. The fact that everybody else in the group shares the same interest (or they wouldn't be there!) makes it all easier too :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Cyclone
maybe he should try making friends with a girl instead of trying to pull them or viewing them as a potential pull.
If he can accept a girl as part of a social group (doesn't have to be just him n her) then he'll get to see them interacting with other people and realise a) that they aren't all bitches, b) see which approaches they like and which they laugh at.

Joining some sort of club that has women members and a regular social life would probably be the ticket.

Doesn't sound far off the mark.

A little more self-confidence perhaps Jamie :thumbsup:

Originally posted by venger
Doesn't sound far off the mark.

A little more self-confidence perhaps Jamie :thumbsup:

He doesn't have a problem with self-confidence venger! He just (sometimes) finds it difficult to be relaxed and settled around women. He's seen all the great advice given on this thread and some of it must have soaked in to his thick head because he is definately making very good progress...

:thumbsup:

Sorry bud.

I hope your friend benefits from the advice that you offer him :)