Interested in paganism but not interested in existing moots/open rituals? Introduce yourself....

Now, why don't you introduce yourself which will allow us a better understanding of what you are after.
It is difficult to open up to a stranger.

I'm also a bit interested in understanding Paganism a bit more, but theres not all that much out there to read, so any advice where to start would be a big help :)

I'm a pagan (Wiccan) but don't quite understand your post... :confused:

Hiya im Pagan,
i must admit i dont understand your post either. it was a bit short and not very to explanatry but......... if its info your after or some such thing i have a Pagan Store you could nip in for a chat. i also run a Pagan moot every second wednesday of the month.

Blessings
Litha

Been a practising pagan for around 12 years now. Solitary with a capital S. Why do you ask?

paganism is the worship of false gods,
it is not a good idea to offend the true God Jehovah.
think about what you are doing, your eternal future depends on it

And what says the god Jehova is real?. to you ,he is, to us our Gods and Goddesses are real. And also, we are not judgemental about other pples religions, nor do we preach and tell people who they should or shouldn't worship. Respect is a great word.............why dont you use it??????.
Blessings
Destiny

Guess what, I have thought about it. It took me years of questioning, reading, searching and, yup, thinking, to reach the path I'm on now. I didn't just watch Buffy you know!
Do you seriously think that if I believed Jehovah was the 'one true god' and Christianity the only true faith I would be so deliberately disobediant? We aren't in it for the kicks or the shock factor you know :)

BTW Tim, judging by your response to the Dev Streakers thread I'm not sure you meant a word of that!!!

I thought all christian religions were Pagan?

NICE ONE SHEFETTE.......excellent answer!!!
Destiny x

Chritstians actually nicked alot of our religion.you only have to look at the Cathederal for instance to see Pagan symbols of the Green God, and other symbols are in churches. Another example:...Good Friday is on the first full moon after Spring Equinox, where do you think Spring Equinox derives from?......Paganism!. The Christians also said that our Horned God is the devil. This derives from Neandathrol times. The cave pple held rituals (to which there is scientific proof of this) before they went on a hunt for the stag.The stag was caught, therefore giving them food. The stag became an icon, known as our Horned One.The stag has horns, just like this so called devil. Christians didn't like Paganism, and said it was evil. So they nicked our Horned one and claimed he was the Devil.So, yup, alot of christianity is based and derives from Paganism.
Blessings
Destiny

Originally posted by xltim
paganism is the worship of false gods,
it is not a good idea to offend the true God Jehovah.
think about what you are doing, your eternal future depends on it Whos this Jehovah never heard of him does he do take aways.:hihi: :hihi:

Originally posted by Destiny
Chritstians actually nicked alot of our religion.you only have to look at the Cathederal for instance to see Pagan symbols of the Green God, and other symbols are in churches. Another example:...Good Friday is on the first full moon after Spring Equinox, where do you think Spring Equinox derives from?......Paganism!. The Christians also said that our Horned God is the devil. This derives from Neandathrol times. The cave pple held rituals (to which there is scientific proof of this) before they went on a hunt for the stag.The stag was caught, therefore giving them food. The stag became an icon, known as our Horned One.The stag has horns, just like this so called devil. Christians didn't like Paganism, and said it was evil. So they nicked our Horned one and claimed he was the Devil.So, yup, alot of christianity is based and derives from Paganism.
Blessings
Destiny
Oh my gawd! What planet you on? You really believe all that? Would be interested to know about scientific proof???? Is any of this really prooved by science? Christianity was born out of Paganism yes, it fulfills a need to believe in a greater good - missing from paganism. Thousands of people cant just be dismissed in this way but it is not a competition!

Originally posted by Bikertec
Whos this Jehovah never heard of him does he do take aways.:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

From the propaganda I have been peddled he's waiting to come back and dish out all the flash houses to the good people who are left when the world (as we know it) ends

yep but as always never delievers:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

i take it that making a joke about naked women means that i cannot be a christian.
i will become a pagan because anything goes, and there is no responsibility to a higher authority.
maybe that is the reason so many people like it.

Why not just let people choose their own religion and stop being so judgemental???

My personal reasons for choosing Wicca are because I feel it is right for ME. I don't really care what other people believe because they have to choose what is right for THEM. And that really is all there is to it. I don't think it is my place to say that my religion is better than any other religion or atheism for that matter. I just know what works for me ;)

Originally posted by Bikertec
Whos this Jehovah never heard of him does he do take aways.:hihi: :hihi: i would like to know who this man is also:loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

Its far better to believe in what you can see, or feel i.e.sun, moon, wind , trees, water,rocks etc. than in a cross and a few storys in a book which have caused more problems than it has solved. I am interested in wicca any info greatly appreciated by pm or otherwise.

Dragon

The idea of a supreme being up in the clouds looking over us all is a bit hard for me to take- so I would look to believe in things you can see/feel also.

Im fascinated by wicca and Paganism-
Can anyone tell me what the beliefs are in both of these?

For a start I don't know if everyone is joking about not knowing who jehovah is but I'll tell you anyway, he's God (christian and jew, to my knowledge)

I personally am an aethiest (sp) by definition, but I still need something to believe in, be it God, or whatever Pagans worship (sorry not clued up there). My problem is with people who try and force people to worship something, like tim for example telling us effectivly that our eternal future is not safe if we don't worship God, trying to scare someone like that is wrong.

To force your beliefs upon others is wrong, do you believe it will bring you closer to God to convince another to worship him? Even though it is their free will (which God supposedly gave them) to worship another

Originally posted by xltim
i take it that making a joke about naked women means that i cannot be a christian.
i will become a pagan because anything goes, and there is no responsibility to a higher authority.
maybe that is the reason so many people like it.

Perhaps I was just surprised that someone who seemed happy to make such a crack leapt up onto their moral high horse so quickly.
I don't know how much you actually know about paganism, the comment about responsibility suggest not a great deal. If you have any questions myself and the other pagans on here will be happy to answer them I'm sure. So ask away, we don't mind. But outright condemnation is seriously unhelpful.

Christians and Pagans are all the same to me. There is no real difference.

Its far better to believe in what you can see, or feel i.e.sun, moon, wind , trees, water,rocks etc.

That's a tad simplistic. Most of us believe in pebbles, but it is rather a large and baffling leap in faith (and intelligence) to believe it has a spirit, and to pay it homage.

I can understand belief in a higher intelligence given that the universe increasngly seems so manufactured and tuned, but why believe in the spirit of pebbles, mud banks and puddles?

Having said that, if you're happy to acknowledge the presence of a spirit living in a lump of sedimentary rock, who am I to argue?

Originally posted by Ant
That's a tad simplistic. Most of us believe in pebbles, but it is rather a large and baffling leap in faith (and intelligence) to believe it has a spirit, and to pay it homage.

I can understand belief in a higher intelligence given that the universe increasngly seems so manufactured and tuned, but why believe in the spirit of pebbles, mud banks and puddles?


Don't know about it being baffling, it's called Animism, the belief that everything has it's own spirit, even if it's inanimate, and it's one of the earliest religious beliefs :)

You could argue that if everything has a spirit, then it includes the TV and PC etc....how many people have been caught saying that their cars have their own personality? ;) :D

Eleri

Well I'm neither christian or pagan, but looking thru the previous posts, it seems that the pagans are way more tolerant and try to explain their beliefs but the christians come across as "you must not" believe in any other religion but theirs.

Originally posted by xltim
paganism is the worship of false gods,
it is not a good idea to offend the true God Jehovah.
think about what you are doing, your eternal future depends on it You're having a laugh...right?!?

Cannot believe you are all getting on your high horses about who is our God?????

Everyone is entitled to worship whoever they want. This is a free country.

Apparently when the bible was first transcribed, two books made into one, our god's name was Jehovah. Its just a name... like our first names Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.

God is not a human form but just made his son in the vision of man so we would relate to him.....

The reason why Religion is sooooooo misconstrewed is that too many people over the years have believed in the bible but have chose to ignore certain parts of it only believing in bits which are easy for them to adhere to.

I am guilty of picking and choosing what I do in life so its inherant in us all...

I also believe there is something really wrong with society today and its definately going down hill, moral, values, etc. If its not Armageddon...... then some day of reckoning will come and lets face it if your the wrong religion then it wont matter cause we'll all be gonners by then anyway.

Its good to have a faith it keeps us sane with some form of security/standing in life.

Well thats what I believe anyway.

:)

My other half is a Pagan (I think thats what she said)
But why people go without meat and fish is beyond me.

Originally posted by xltim
i take it that making a joke about naked women means that i cannot be a christian.
i will become a pagan because anything goes, and there is no responsibility to a higher authority.
maybe that is the reason so many people like it. Have you considered a career as a stand-up comedian?

This stuff is gold!

But seriously, I'm a solitary pagan and came to the religion after finding that there were so many questions that christianity failed to answer and shook a big stick at you if you thought for yourself about the important things in life.

There are rules in pagan belief, but the responsibility is to yourself rather than to an absent deity.

For me paganism holds meaning because it is rooted in the real world and informs my decisions in a practical way.

In the end we will all be judged on who we are and how we lived rather than what prescise definition of divinity we hold close to our hearts.

I like to follow the seasons although I don't think that necessarily makes you a pagan, marking the solstice seems to touch something quite deep in the mind and helps bridge the huge gap we have now living so removed from the wild. I go paragliding alot and we're always making little sacrifices to the wind gods for better weather.. the idea of a Mother Earth is much more appealing than a Father up in Heaven

Originally posted by bielby
I like to follow the seasons although I don't think that necessarily makes you a pagan, marking the solstice seems to touch something quite deep in the mind and helps bridge the huge gap we have now living so removed from the wild. I go paragliding alot and we're always making little sacrifices to the wind gods for better weather.. the idea of a Mother Earth is much more appealing than a Father up in Heaven Here here!

Don't know about it being baffling, it's called Animism, the belief that everything has it's own spirit, even if it's inanimate, and it's one of the earliest religious beliefs

Yes. I know. The fact that the most primitive of men believed that there are spirits in stones doesn't really lend much weight to the theory. The evidence for it is non-existant. The only reason I can think of that people sign up to this bilge is because they want to look alternative, green, hippy, and very very different to everyone else.

You could argue that if everything has a spirit, then it includes the TV and PC etc..
Well yes, you could. But there's not really that much substance to the animism argument, is there? Prehistoric man made massive blunders when they came to addressing the nature of the universe - they lacked even the most rudimentary scientific skills with which to apply to it. Today, we have no excuse.

I can't see much point in being born as The Spirit of the Chewing Gum Wrapper. There wouldn't be much of a learning curve to life? Emotions would be pointless, and influencing the outside world would be, well, a bit on the difficult side. It's all very, very silly.

Originally posted by Ant
Yes. I know. The fact that the most primitive of men believed that there are spirits in stones doesn't really lend much weight to the theory. The evidence for it is non-existant. The only reason I can think of that people sign up to this bilge is because they want to look alternative, green, hippy, and very very different to everyone else.


Well yes, you could. But there's not really that much substance to the animism argument, is there? Prehistoric man made massive blunders when they came to addressing the nature of the universe - they lacked even the most rudimentary scientific skills with which to apply to it. Today, we have no excuse.

I can't see much point in being born as The Spirit of the Chewing Gum Wrapper. There wouldn't be much of a learning curve to life? Emotions would be pointless, and influencing the outside world would be, well, a bit on the difficult side. It's all very, very silly.

I can see you have never really spoken to anybody who takes their belief in paganism seriously. I am not a "hippy" or "alternative" but I am a pagan. I don't tell many people I am pagan, I think only my best friends and my boyfriend know. I chose the religion because of all the religions I read about it seemed to make the most sense to me. It fufills my life and I am glad I chose that path. I can understand it is not for everybody, but I don't think you have any right to judge people based on what they believe. I would never be so narrow minded as to argue my religion is in any way superior to any other, or is superior to not having a religion. As far as I'm concerned believing in what I do is my personal business.

I don't think you have any right to judge people based on what they believe

Er, yes I do.

As far as I'm concerned believing in what I do is my personal business.

Damn right. I was commenting (it's a forum after all) on paganism, not you, Lucy_Smith. Live with it.

So you believe it is ok to judge people based on their religion? :loopy:

If so good luck. I think there is a lot worse I could believe in than a religion founded on a law of always thinking if your actions could harm anybody before doing them.

Ah, but that's not what you said. You said "do you think you have the right to judge people on what they believe". Rephrasing it with the emphasis on religion weighs it at a different end (leave out the :loopy:, that's rather infantile).

Would I be wrong to judge Hitler over his flawed beliefs? Of course I wouldn't, it's my right.

In case you hadn't noticed, I'll clarify what I posted earlier. My gripe was over the belief that pebbles, rocks, streams, wells etc. can have a spirit. It's utterly unsubstantiated, and based on a prehistoric under-educated society that lacked any scientific framework to their observations and philosophies on nature. What's your view on spirits in pebbles? Without using :loopy: :suspect: or :gag:.

Ok I see what you are saying. But I meant beliefs about religion.

And sorry for my :loopy: ;) ;) ;) hope they make up for it

Personally, and I doubt I would be speaking for all pagans here, but I believe there is energy all around us. I believe in energy in pebbles, streams etc. But I don't see that as being a very humanised "spirit" if you understand what I mean. Whereas a Christian has very "human" forms of God and the Devil as real beings, I worship more the life force of the earth and nature.

I understand this has no "scientific" evidence, but that is what faith is all about at the end of the day. Some people choose to have faith in religions that are not supported by science but they do this because it fufills their lives. Others however do not choose faith...it's all about how people chose to live their own personal lives.

You wont find many people disagreeing with you: there is indeed energy all around us, and in pebbles, streams etc. But this is where my scientific interpretation of energy and your generalised concept differ. The terms "energy", "higher vibrational plane", and possibly even "spirit" make it very difficult for me to hold a conversation on the same level as a pagan - I have the same difficulties with some of the nonsense many mediums waffle on about. It's all so wishy-washy and vague.

We both know that science is a million miles away from supporting the pagan outlook on nature, and I'm sure that paganism is an emotional security blanket for those who can't accept the true nature of the world. I'm not sure that it's wise to accept that faith should come into the equation, however. What are you actually placing your faith in? A set of dodgy books by some blokes in Wiltshire in the 60s and the odd one from a Californian hippy? Modern paganism, it seems to me, is a muddy chaotic mess of beliefs nailed together from dozens of different sources, followed by self-deluded different drummers. There's no wisdom in turning your back on science to adopt a pre-historic outlook on nature and the universe. We are evolving away from all of that superstitious drivel.

No offense meant, I just say it as I see it.

No offense taken...your are of course entitled to your opinion and it is good to debate this sort of thing.

I don't follow Wicca as being defined by Gardner or anybody else for that matter. I have read a lot about the religion and I have chosen to follow the parts I agree with. I call myself a pagan and a Wiccan because I agree with more of that particular religion than any other.

Interestingly do you have the same views about Christianity? There is of course no "scientific" evidence for the existance of God. Maybe people that choose to believe in a religion are self-deluded, in that it is easy to believe we are all just the pawns of a higher being, and that if we have faith we will be rewarded with "eternal life". To clarify however I don't belive that. I believe I am responsible for what I do and my life. I believe bad things are done by people, not the Devil. I also believe when I die that is it, my body will be recycled by the earth. I do not believe in eternal life, just that my energy will live on in some form. Be this in my children, in a job I have done, whatever. Science does say after all energy cannot be created or destroyed...merely transformed.

Oh, and I wouldn't take "mediums" to be representative of pagans. From my experience they know nothing about the religion and are merely looking to make a quick buck.

I have very similar views over Christianity. Though Jesus does seem to have been a historical character and the Gospels of the New Testament were written at the time of, or within living memory of, Jesus' life. This adds weight to the religion. There's a substantial amount of material in the Bible that could be used to support Jesus' words that we should have faith in him. It could be considered a little silly that pagans use the same argument.

I agree with you in that your energy will continue on "in some form" when you die. The difference is, I can tell you exactly how your energy will live on, and slap a hefty textbook on your lap to back it up. Your wishy-washy energy concept rears it's ugly head again.

I don't take mediums as representitive of pagans at all. I was highlighting the difficulty in having a constructive debate with them without them both warping the word "energy" in the same pseudo-scientific way.

It's also harsh to tar all mediums with the same brush. I've strong views on mediums myself, but I know that not all of them are out to make money.

I have a BNP friend of mine who is a pagan, she writes to the magazine called pagan news,I do admire her and what she beleives in.
She is very proud of the fact she is a pagan,and why not?:thumbsup:

That's great! Good luck to her, she sounds swell! :thumbsup:

I believe the "energy" I believe in is exactly the same as the scientific energy the physicists have written the laws about. So not entirely sure how I am being wishy-washy???

I do believe Jesus existed but what evidence is there that he was the son of God? So really Christianity has no more weight than paganism, Islam, Buddism...whatever. Religion is essentially all about faith. Some people choose to believe and others do not. But unfortunately paganism is not the only religion not supported by science.

I believe the "energy" I believe in is exactly the same as the scientific energy the physicists have written the laws about. So not entirely sure how I am being wishy-washy???

It's how you use the word. You "believe" that your energy will live on, in some form. Of course it will. The energy in your dead body exists as mass. When you die, your decomposing flesh rots into the soil where its mass will be converted into energy for other lifeforms. It's not complicated. However, when you start talking of your energy "living on" after your death, it's fairly obvious we're not talking about the same sort of energy. Mine is of the scientific sort that's measurable and fully accountable. Yours drifts off after death, sticking two fingers up at Einstein's grave as it wishy-washes it's way to a higher vibrationary plane.

I do believe Jesus existed but what evidence is there that he was the son of God? So really Christianity has no more weight than paganism, Islam, Buddism...whatever. Religion is essentially all about faith. Some people choose to believe and others do not. But unfortunately paganism is not the only religion not supported by science.

You've missed the point again. I'm not supporting Christianity. There is no evidence that he was the Son of God. There IS evidence that he actually existed, said the things he is reported to have said, and done many of the things that he is reported to have done, so science (history, archaeology etc) can be used to at least defend the existance of Jesus. Which is a good starting point - we have something to work with, don't we? My point is, in Christianity we have historical characters, contemporary accounts, and an apparent miracle-worker asking us to have faith in his preaching. Modern paganism, a prehistoric concept bolted together willy-nilly with other beliefs, wilts in shame by comparison.

It's so easy to fall back on the faith defence - nothing science can throw will stick to those who have faith. They're like Teflon. How long did it take to convince the world to abandon their faith that the world was round? Look what happened to Galileo when he set scientific observation against the Teflon Society. Faith is Ignorance under a different name.

I totally accept your arguement because I understand at the end of the day I have no "proof" that what I believe in is real. But for me that is fine, I like following my religion because it gives me a focus in my life. And I would say that was probably true of any religious person.

I understand you are not supporting Christianity and also see your point that the religion does seem to have more of a grounding, because of the very real existance of Jesus. Personally it wasn't for me, but I do understand it is for some people. My boyfriend is Catholic after all (you can just imagine the discussions in our house :lol: )

My overall point is however that your argument is not with paganism but with the concept of religion itself. I can totally see how faith can be seen as ignorance but you should be aware that there are millions of people accross the world who would disagree with you, certainly not just pagans.

Originally posted by Carmine


In the end we will all be judged on who we are and how we lived rather than what prescise definition of divinity we hold close to our hearts.

Who (or what) is doing this judging? Is there a pagan god whose doing the judging?

When I'm dead, I won't be in the least bit bothered about anyone (or anything) judging me on who I was and how I lived. I'll be dead. End of story.

My overall point is however that your argument is not with paganism but with the concept of religion itself. I can totally see how faith can be seen as ignorance but you should be aware that there are millions of people accross the world who would disagree with you, certainly not just pagans

My argument was that worshipping pebbles is pointless and silly. The faith issue arose because at some point common sense and rational thinking begins to have no effect in a discussion with those using faith as a defence. This is the point we have reached.

Originally posted by Ant
science (history, archaeology etc) can be used to at least defend the existance of Jesus.

(buts in)
History (and to a lesser degree archaeology) are by no means scientific forms of enquiry.

But, you know, not everyone holds 'science' in such high esteem as yourself, and I think it may do you good (or at least make you come across a little less arrogant and blinkered) to recognise that other beliefs are not stupid, illogical, or deluded, just different.

What do you have against pebbles, anyway? :D

Strongly disagree over the rejection of history and archaeology as valid scientific methodology. Also, those that don't hold science in high esteem are idiots. Nothing more.

I have nothing against pebbles, just the "different" people who worship their spirits. I still prefer the classifications of stupid, illogical and delusional, myself. If the cap fits.

No apologies for my arrogance - I speak my mind.

Why do people call themselves pagans?

The word pagan was used by the Romans to describe local religions of the people of countries they acquired.

Paganism is not a word to describe any particular religion, it can’t be used in the same context as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism etc ….

Originally posted by Ant
Strongly disagree over the rejection of history and archaeology as valid scientific methodology. Also, those that don't hold science in high esteem are idiots. Nothing more.

I have nothing against pebbles, just the "different" people who worship their spirits. I still prefer the classifications of stupid, illogical and delusional, myself. If the cap fits.

No apologies for my arrogance - I speak my mind.

ant: I agree with you completely, the bible was written by real people about real things that happened how much more evidence do we need. What we do or believe in after digesting that knowledge is up to the individual.

Also I dont really understand the pepple thing. although dont jump down my throat, that is MY opinion. Just as in the life of Brian, the shoe was the sign ..... lol..... sorry but it makes me laugh!!!

Seriously though we all have to respect each others religions even though Religion appears to be related to most of the world's upset, arguments and wars.....

Talk about Multi Cultural Society..... it has alot to answer to.

I know someone who claims to be a Pagan who shuns Christian rituals such as Christmas because it's not Pagan. He also is against marriage as he says it's a Christian ritual. Are Pagans against marriage?

Originally posted by redrobbo
Who (or what) is doing this judging? That depends on your point of view!

I never meant to suggest that there was a pagan god that'll judge you when you pop off, I'm a pagan and I don't believe that!

Only other human beings that survive will judge our memories in any way that we would understand...what happens (if anything) after we're dead is a bloody mystery.

Originally posted by serapis
Why do people call themselves pagans?

Paganism has become a broad term to describe an earth religion such as Wicca, Druidism etc. Personally I describe myself as a Wiccan but to be honest, what it's called doesn't really bother me, it's what I believe in that counts.

Classic Rock- some pagans have a handfasting ceremony although if this is going to stand legally it needs to be performed by somebody who is qualified to perform marriages. I personally think the idea that marriage is a Christian ritual silly, what about Hindu and Muslim marriages??? Also, there are plenty of ways of getting married in a completely non-denominational way nowadays.

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith



Oh, and I wouldn't take "mediums" to be representative of pagans. From my experience they know nothing about the religion and are merely looking to make a quick buck.
I am sorry by I take offense at this remark. Are not you yourself 'tarring everyone with the same brush' by saying this. I am a medium, but I also have other beliefs(not Christianity by the way).I can assure you making a 'fast buck' doesn't come into it, in fact I haven't got two'appenies to rub together. If I was out to make a fast buck with all the time and effort I put into my work there wouldn't be a bank big enough to hold all the money, instead I give loads and get next to nothing back. so please hold your judgement on other people as well.

Pebbles and streams.
The pebbles represent us (humans) and the stream represents what we allow to mould/shape us. Well that's another way of looking at things.

In the beginning (couldn't resist that one), didn't religion represent the laws within a society? Cultural beliefs would have had a direct influence on this so I suppose looking at where each religion originated would make sense.

Found something that may answer some questions.

http://www.paganlink.org/uk-info/local_info/yorkshire.html

Originally posted by sacredearth
I am sorry by I take offense at this remark. Are not you yourself 'tarring everyone with the same brush' by saying this. I am a medium, but I also have other beliefs(not Christianity by the way).I can assure you making a 'fast buck' doesn't come into it, in fact I haven't got two'appenies to rub together. If I was out to make a fast buck with all the time and effort I put into my work there wouldn't be a bank big enough to hold all the money, instead I give loads and get next to nothing back. so please hold your judgement on other people as well.

Ok I accept I was tarring all mediums with the same brush. Apologies and sorry if it caused offence.

What I really dislike however is how people assume mediums are pagan, it often gives paganism a bad name. I think you do have to accept that there are a great deal of so called mediums out there who completely abuse very vulnerable people, and feed them absolute rubbish in return for a hefty fee. This then results in bad opinions towards pagans because people assume mediums are pagan.

Good comment Lucy......but i have also noticed how much arguing and difference of opinions pple have over religion!. I wont argue about it, i just say what i believe in, and i also say that it is each to their own.........believe in wotever you want. I thought this thread was to ask about Paganism etc, not to flamin well argue over religion!!.and as for being judged when we die...........hmmmm!, an thats all i'm saying!
Destiny

Jehovah, Yehowah, Elohim, Jesu, Yesu, Agla, Addonia, blah, blah, blah!!!

Sorry... can't hear anything for the racket these bleedin' angels are making while rehearsing their hosannah's with those bloody awful harp's they play!!!

I guess the Jehovah's Witness forgot that they are nothing more than second-hand 3rd day adventists!!!

So what happened about the other 4 days? I suppose God had to go to the dentist after all the nashing of teeth he did, while his little sheep were arguing which version of Christianity was the righteous path to Ye Single Gawd... maybe the Christian Gawd should learn from the neo-Pagans, and Pagans, and too boot early Jewes.. and get himself a woman!!!

Might cause him to mellow out a bit and stop all the wars!!! In erm Christendom!!!

Sorry, I forgot Gawd had a son... well how did that happen?
The Virgin Mary... don't think so? Considering the name Mary is originally erm... Pagan... Celtic to be precise!!! It means Mother!!!

Oh... and what about Mary Magdalene... shouldn't we mention that she had children to Jesus!!!

Oh, and to boot... the name God was originally Anglo-Saxon... meaning (1) An Idol. (2) Divine sexual union (between a God and a Goddess).

Oh... and what about Jesus, another stolen deity... Jesus (Judeo-Chistian), Jesu (early-Jewish), Iesius (Romano-Greek), Mileius (Greek), Mithras (Persian).

OOOPPPSS!!! Sorry... I've let out the Christian's secret they're actually worshiping a Persian Pagan Military God-form!!!

I think our lil' JW friend needs to throw away his tampered version of the King James bible and read some of the early Christian Gnostic text and Apocryphal text from the Old testament!!!

Might open his/her eyes up a little!!!

All hail Lillith Adam's 1st wife!!! Goddess of Witches, Sorceror's and vampires!!!

FFF(F).

Herne's Magister.

All Pagan's are mediums...?

Not the last time I looked? But then I am too skinny to be a medium... and too tall to me a small?!?

Oh... and to boot I don't call myself a Pagan or a Neo-Pagan!!!

I'm just a "Wytche"... confused? Good!!!

FFF(F).

Herne's Magister.

Originally posted by Magister666
All Pagan's are mediums...?

Not the last time I looked? But then I am too skinny to be a medium... and too tall to me a small?!?

Oh... and to boot I don't call myself a Pagan or a Neo-Pagan!!!

I'm just a "Wytche"... confused? Good!!!

FFF(F).

Herne's Magister.

chill out hun.... your taking this thread a tad tooo serious!!! lol

...Often gives Paganism a bad name?

I thought Pagans already had a bad name?

After all wasn't the word Pagan originally from the Roman - Latin : Paganus & Pagus.

Which was a derogitary term for a country-dweller!!!

Just as Heathen means someone from the heaths!!!

Oh... and to boot all the bad press Christians gave Pagans... and the poor sheep of society believed it all... at least most of them!!!

But then they were forst to do so via torchure, and erm... hangings, and not to mention the odd burning at the stake in Scotland and mainland Europe!!!

And all for a religion that well... isn't really Christian...?

After all Christ was said to be a Jew!!!

And modern Christianity is based on the teaching of someone whom didn't even know Christ... St. Paul.

The only one of the apostles/disciples whom actually knew Christ well was St. John...

And St. John's writings were thrown out of the window by the early Vatican in favour of St. Paul.

Now where did I put my copy of the Divinci Code... oh, sorry I forgot I haven't bought a copy yet!!!

FFF(F).

Herne's Magister.

Originally posted by technophobe
chill out hun.... your taking this thread a tad tooo serious!!! lol

Already chilled!!! Thanks!!!

Just posting a few erm... theological truths!!! That probably most Christians and Pagans don't know!!!

FFF(F).

Herne's Magister.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spears of Tiw, I suppose? Stay off the coffee.

Whoever commented that the conversation was was off topic was right. Let's all leave it to you pagans for introductions. Perhaps a mod could split it and form a pagan discussion thread?

Although the funny thing is the original poster doesn't seem to have said anything more!!!

I think it went off topic when somebody mentioned Jehovah...lol...and then it all went downhill from there :lol:

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith
Although the funny thing is the original poster doesn't seem to have said anything more!!!

I think it went off topic when somebody mentioned Jehovah...lol...and then it all went downhill from there :lol:

Ah... but did you learn something by it?

I learnt not to over-use punctiation for dramatic effect. ;)

This thread is very interesting to me as religion is usually consisting of people who have very similar views, making a real big thing about tiny differences between their beliefs.
Like many people, I make my own religion up as I go along. I have my own beliefs, rituals etc.. But I enjoy the fact that other people enjoy following their own religions even if they are traditional prescribed religions.
What upsets me no end is the way people hate and even actively attack others who go by a different persuasion.
I have enjoyed christian religion and traditional religions like Paganism, and I believe that there is no reason why you can't take what works for you from a mixture of religions/beliefs.

I'm not sure that I've seen any hatred on here, just a heated debate. Questioning (and finding highly amusing) religion is no different from having the same approach to attitudes and behaviour. Pebble worshiping is funny. Feel free to feel the same way about my beliefs.

Actually muddy, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying. Are you saying it's wrong to apply rational thinking and scientific method to religion? Why is religion off-limits? Surely it's just as valid to question a man who worships a rock as it is to question a man who choses to walk everywhere on one leg? Both, to me, whatever the reason they have for doing it, are amusing and silly.

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith

Personally, and I doubt I would be speaking for all pagans here, but I believe there is energy all around us. I believe in energy in pebbles, streams etc.

I have a very nice pebble garden, but no matter how long I stare at the pebbles, I don't observe any energy. They never move, radiate heat or communicate with me. They just remain motionless. Am I doing this pagan thing wrong, or is it because someone keeps nicking the larger pebbles?

I've heard that if you're a good pebble, when you die, you go to The Rockery.

Originally posted by Ant
I've heard that if you're a good pebble, when you die, you go to The Rockery.

Or if your rockery's full of skimmers you'll spend half your after-life bouncing up and down on the surface of a firey-lake!

Originally posted by Ant
How long did it take to convince the world to abandon their faith that the world was round?

so the World IS actually carried through space on the back of a giant Turtle supported by four Elephants?

How could I have been so wrong for so many years ... the World isn't round? .... but I've seen pictures ... my entire existence seems so pointless now ... I may as well become a pebble ...

ruby

(yes I know it was a typo, but I just couldn't let it lie :D )

Originally posted by Destiny
Good comment Lucy......but i have also noticed how much arguing and difference of opinions pple have over religion!. I wont argue about it, i just say what i believe in, and i also say that it is each to their own.........believe in wotever you want. I thought this thread was to ask about Paganism etc, not to flamin well argue over religion!!.and as for being judged when we die...........hmmmm!, an thats all i'm saying!
Destiny

I totally agree with you Destiny. Too much arguing in this world these days. Religion ( whatever the beliefs) is a major cause of the world's troubles. We all have to have something to believe in, but surely the first objective is to believe in ourselves and to define the difference between good and bad. As for afterdeath, mmmmmmmm. Can't say anything cos won't be around !!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ANGELUS
[B]The idea of a supreme being up in the clouds looking over us all is a bit hard for me to take-
Me too. This has always been a problem for me, so now I don't have a religion because I find that religion and politics cause more problems than anything. If you want a heated debate discuss ANY form of religion, including paganism, and you will find everyone thinks that their way is right. -Don't get me wrong I ain't knocking paganism, I practice a bit of it myself, but I am just saying that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and religion without being ridiculed.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith
Ok I accept I was tarring all mediums with the same brush. Apologies and sorry if it caused offense.

What I really dislike however is how people assume mediums are pagan, it often gives paganism a bad name. I think you do have to accept that there are a great deal of so called mediums out there who completely abuse very vulnerable people, and feed them absolute rubbish in return for a hefty fee. This then results in bad opinions to wards pagans because people assume mediums are pagan.

You're doing it again being judgmental And why can't a medium be a pagan or a pagan be a medium (not all mediums are spiritualist you know) Yes I agree there probably are quite a few mediums out there who spin a load of yarns to vulnerable people, but I have come across people who call themselves pagans and witches and charge hundreds of pounds for spells that they say work miracles. I have also come across churches who take huge chunks of money from their congregations wage packets. So to my reckoning there are good and bad in all religions and beliefs so don't come across as pagans being so pure cos everyone at some time reaches a point where they do something not very nice:rolleyes:

If you want a heated debate discuss ANY form of religion, including paganism, and you will find everyone thinks that their way is right..... I am just saying that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and religion without being ridiculed.

I agree with your first observations Brenda, but I still claim my right to have judgements (whether other people label them as blinkered or not) over what other people believe in.

Me and Dave Allen sit on the same bench.

I can only repeat what I said earlier. Hitler (I'm not comparing anyone to him by the way, I'm just trying to give the clearest, most extreme example of what I'm referring to) had some very warped beliefs on the world around him. Am I not within my rights to criticise and even poke fun at the misguided idiocy of the man's distorted view of the world? Am I obliged to treat his views with respect? Of course not. Any views that - to me - are so outlandish, unscientific, and ill-thought out are setting themselves up for criticism. And I will not apologise or back down from my view that worshipping the spirit of a pebble is inherently hillarious and open to ridicule. It's not a sweeping generalisation, it's just the idea of inanimate objects having spirits is nonsensical.

And as I've said earlier, there's no rationalising with the believers. Belief and faith are not in themselves honourable attributes, as many posters to this thread are implying. "I'm a believer, I have faith. Leave me alone" doesn't wash - it's all too convenient to hide behind the defence that it's un-pc to criticise another person's beliefs. To me, belief and faith are redundant medieval abominations that are allowing their users to dwell in their own little (prehistoric in this case) fantasy worlds instead of having the courage to live in the world that is measurable and observable. I see a pebble, I don't see the Spirit of the Pebble. There is no logic and purpose to a static pebble having a spirit. Sorry all, but it's a very, very funny concept, and I have strong reservations over those that see the point in paying a static pebble homage.

Honour your neighbour, not the rockery.

Originally posted by sacredearth
You're doing it again being judgmental And why can't a medium be a pagan or a pagan be a medium (not all mediums are spiritualist you know) Yes I agree there probably are quite a few mediums out there who spin a load of yarns to vulnerable people, but I have come across people who call themselves pagans and witches and charge hundreds of pounds for spells that they say work miracles. I have also come across churches who take huge chunks of money from their congregations wage packets. So to my reckoning there are good and bad in all religions and beliefs so don't come across as pagans being so pure cos everyone at some time reaches a point where they do something not very nice:rolleyes:

Touche.... and its the not so nice things in life that make us appreciate the nice things even more!!! just because I was making people see the not so nice things in the religioniosity of mainstream spirituality doesn't mean that I was bashing Christians, I could do the same to Jewes/Jews, or even Pagans for that matter?

And the response would be exactly the same... people complaining because they think your having a go! When in reality they don't like to hear the truth? As Truths scare people!!!

When in reality they don't like to hear the truth? As Truths scare people!!!

What a load of over-generalised tripe. And do cut out on the !!!'s, your posts read like a religious pamphlet.

Originally posted by sacredearth
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ANGELUS
[B]The idea of a supreme being up in the clouds looking over us all is a bit hard for me to take-
Me too. This has always been a problem for me, so now I don't have a religion because I find that religion and politics cause more problems than anything. If you want a heated debate discuss ANY form of religion, including paganism, and you will find everyone thinks that their way is right. -Don't get me wrong I ain't knocking paganism, I practice a bit of it myself, but I am just saying that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and religion without being ridiculed.:rolleyes:

Erm... if you look beyond the nice fluffly all is love an light facade of the 101 & ABC Paganism that is being touted around the Pagan Commercial Public then you will see that the more publicly acceptible white washed version of Paganism that's probably been sold to you by some public money spinning capatalist still has many of the hang-ups of Chritianity!!!

After all they say ex-Catholic's make good Wiccans!!! And most Pagans whese days seem to have come from a previous Christian upbringing!!!

That in itself isn't nessecarily a bad thing! But be do tend to adopt the hang-ups of a previous religious crede and paint their new religion on the model of their old.

After all... look what Christians originally stole from the original Pagans... before Neo-Paganism was born out of the Occult revival of the late 19th century (Which on the main was based around Jewish Magickal Systems!).

Originally posted by Ant
What a load of over-generalised tripe. And do cut out on the !!!'s, your posts read like a religious pamphlet.

Spirituality contains Religious truths but Spirituality is not necessarily a Religions per say? As for the generalised tripe that is a matter of opinion and I guess our opinions differ! so I shall use as many !!!! as I feel like?

Perhaps you could explain what "Pagan Commercial Public" is?

Spirituality contains Religious truths but Spirituality is not necessarily a Religions per say?

No, you've lost me again. After trying to decifer "what a Religions" is, your comment came out of the blue and just sat there looking lonely and irrelevant, totally out of context to what was being discussed.

Originally posted by Magister666
Spirituality contains Religious truths but Spirituality is not necessarily a Religions per say? As for the generalised tripe that is a matter of opinion and I guess our opinions differ! so I shall use as many !!!! as I feel like?

And I thought we were having a debate about Spirituality and not general opinion... but I guess general opinion will invade when some one does not have a fixed spiritual belief or religious dogma to follow or model on? So criticism will intrude when the linear brain and scientific mode of think tries to intrude or invade on something which is not so linear towards plain seeing or understanding? As Spirituality is not so clear cut as some Psychologist would have us think? It cannot be judged with a scientific mind-frame but has to be judged with link mind-settings!!!

Example the person whom cannot see energy in the stone or peeble! But energy is there yes! scientifically energy created it, so energy has left it's mark so it is the conscious mark of that energy which is the spiritual memory or aspect of that peeble!

Different people will see that energy in a different light as we all view the world from different eyes!

Originally posted by Ant
Perhaps you could explain what "Pagan Commercial Public" is?

Try having a look at the bookshelves at some of the major bookstores and you will get my dirift... most long-standing Pagans, Witches, Druids, etc will know what I am talking about!

Originally posted by Ant
No, you've lost me again. After trying to decifer "what a Religions" is, your comment came out of the blue and just sat there looking lonely and irrelevant, totally out of context to what was being discussed.

I don't think it is out of context! After all is not the debate showing a trend of discussing how religious view have changed... from the original Paganism to the Patriarchal Christianity to the new primarily Matriarchal Neo-Paganism.

"Different people will see that energy in a different light as we all view the world from different eyes!"

- what are you saying? Are your eyes somehow superior to mine? It seems were back onto the wishy washy "energy" that only Those In The Know can see? That's you, right? You're One Of Them.

"But energy is there yes! scientifically energy created it, so energy has left it's mark so it is the conscious mark of that energy which is the spiritual memory or aspect of that peeble!"

I have now lost all interest in the thread. That's the worst example of pseudo-scientific drivel that makes a discussion over these sorts of issues doomed when dealing with jelly-minded thinkers such as yourself.

"So criticism will intrude when the linear brain and scientific mode of think tries to intrude or invade on something which is not so linear towards plain seeing or understanding? As Spirituality is not so clear cut as some Psychologist would have us think? It cannot be judged with a scientific mind-frame but has to be judged with link mind-settings!!!"

And there's the nail in the coffin. My friend, welcome to the forum, I look forward to meeting you in other discussions, but - and I mean this with the utmost repect - you make me very uneasy. I feel I'm forced to take my inferior linear brain elsewhere, as it's impossible to spread so wafer thin as to cope with a normal discussion with you.

Originally posted by Ant
"Different people will see that energy in a different light as we all view the world from different eyes!"

- what are you saying? Are your eyes somehow superior to mine? It seems were back onto the wishy washy "energy" that only Those In The Know can see? That's you, right? You're One Of Them.

"But energy is there yes! scientifically energy created it, so energy has left it's mark so it is the conscious mark of that energy which is the spiritual memory or aspect of that peeble!"

I have now lost all interest in the thread. That's the worst example of pseudo-scientific drivel that makes a discussion over these sorts of issues doomed when dealing with jelly-minded thinkers such as yourself.

"So criticism will intrude when the linear brain and scientific mode of think tries to intrude or invade on something which is not so linear towards plain seeing or understanding? As Spirituality is not so clear cut as some Psychologist would have us think? It cannot be judged with a scientific mind-frame but has to be judged with link mind-settings!!!"

And there's the nail in the coffin. My friend, welcome to the forum, I look forward to meeting you in other discussions, but - and I mean this with the utmost repect - you make me very uneasy. I feel I'm forced to take my inferior linear brain elsewhere, as it's impossible to spread so wafer thin as to cope with a normal discussion with you.

Wrong... I only know what is right for me! And what my own consciousness deems is necessary for me to hear!

Your view and opinions are right for you, and both our opinions will be totally wrong for some one-else, but may individually be on par with what someone else see's as right, it does not make either of us right or wrong!

Oh... and as for myself being pseudo-scientific? I have a very clear understanding of science... after all I have a degree in engineering! But personally I see Spirituality and Science as complimentary... they are two sides of a coin that make a whole, they are not opposites.

Oh... and I never said my eyes were superior to your own... they are not, your eyes are superior for yourself, just as mine are for myself! We are both individuals... your eyes would do me no good, just as mine would do no good for you!!!

I think esentially what Magister666 is saying is right. It's all about tolerance at the end of the day. It is amazing the debates religion causes, and although I agree with Ant and would say there is definitely no hatred from my end, is does get rather heated. But nobody is anymore right than each other...that's the problem. What is right for me isn't likely to be right for anybody else, but so what? I do what makes me happy and as long as I don't harm anybody I don't see the problem. Same with Ant...he's not harming anybody so I don't see the problem.

And they all lived happily ever after... :lol:

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith
I think esentially what Magister666 is saying is right. It's all about tolerance at the end of the day. It is amazing the debates religion causes, and although I agree with Ant and would say there is definitely no hatred from my end, is does get rather heated. But nobody is anymore right than each other...that's the problem. What is right for me isn't likely to be right for anybody else, but so what? I do what makes me happy and as long as I don't harm anybody I don't see the problem. Same with Ant...he's not harming anybody so I don't see the problem.

And they all lived happily ever after... :lol:

Exactly... too many people try to see wood when there are only trees, and trees when there is only wood!

And tend to forget that wood and trees make excellent sawdust, which make excellent paper, which makes excellent books... books mean knowledge and knowledge means a difference of opinion.

And, opinions are always going to be right or wrong on an individual level.

Boy am I glad I don't have a religion:rolleyes:

Originally posted by sacredearth
Boy am I glad I don't have a religion:rolleyes:

But I bet you are religious? Or to be exact Spiritually aware in your own way!

Otherwise why would you believe in the paranormal?

This has been an interesting debate, which I have followed with fascination. The final scores are -

Ant 8 points
Lucy_Smith 6 points
scaredearth 5 points
Magister666 4 points
richardbiker 1 point (who he? - go back to the original post!)
pebbles 0 points (nil points!)

I'd like to say some wise words at this point ... but I've forgot them all !!!

:P

Originally posted by redrobbo
This has been an interesting debate, which I have followed with fascination. The final scores are -

Ant 8 points
Lucy_Smith 6 points
scaredearth 5 points
Magister666 4 points
richardbiker 1 point (who he? - go back to the original post!)
pebbles 0 points (nil points!)

Whom said I was debating anything?

Just pointing out a few Spiritual and Theological Truths!!!

4 points... does that mean I can have a turtle for each of the cardinal points or is that elementary? Oh and a few rocks erm... pebbles won't go a miss Ether (sic).

Anyone for Quiddich?

Originally posted by Jamie
I'd like to say some wise words at this point ... but I've forgot them all !!!

:P

Wise words? Pass the beer and pringles!

Woo hoo I came second I rule!!! :D

Originally posted by Lucy_Smith
Woo hoo I came second I rule!!! :D

A true gentleman would let a lady come first!! :clap:

Originally posted by Jamie
A true gentleman would let a lady come first!! :clap:

Jamie you do suprise me all the time. :D

But I bet you are religious? Or to be exact Spiritually aware in your own way!

Otherwise why would you believe in the paranormal?
I am still looking for the ultimate proof. I can't say I believe or disbelieve I just seem to 'know' certain things

paganism is the worship of false gods,
it is not a good idea to offend the true God Jehovah.
think about what you are doing, your eternal future depends on it


:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

People worship their car but surely the credit for the car must go to the designer and builder, and even though looking to Mr. Ford isn't exactly inspirational he must have more intelligence than the car he created. By the same token the forces of nature that created the pebble must be infinitely more powerful than the pebble they created while at the same time they provide us with all we need for our sustenance. However, if there is a higher authority than the combined forces of nature then that’s the one for me. Here we have the ultimate power that deserves all the respect, worship and honour due to it and wherever and whatever form this ultimate power possesses it is the giver and provider of life and as such it must be worthy of honour by those who have been blessed with the gift of life.

Blessings.

to magiser666 - Hi Alan, not seen you for aaaages!
to Sacredeath and Bikertech- Waves!

Some folks know me, ive been around the Pagan circles in Sheffield for years.

I think the best way to decribe me is an ex coven witch, now pracitcing solitary (though I am still a pack animal deep down), I'm a practicing herbalist of 13 years, tribal drummer and folk musician.

Never mind religion, Magic(K) and Ritual, the only problem with human groups, social or otherwise fall, is because they just can't get along, deep down as a speices, we cannot just accept one another.

when you see to a person for the first time, you judge them on their appearance, not their faith or belief, just accept the fact that folks are individuals, they all have different feelings, they are all truely unique and just accept them as they are.

Life is to short to argue over such small matters. Learn to appreciate the uniqueness of humanity, not berrate each other for being different.

Tam.

to magiser666 -
the only problem with human groups, social or otherwise fall, is because they just can't get along, deep down as a speices, we cannot just accept one another.

when you see to a person for the first time, you judge them on their appearance, not their faith or belief, just accept the fact that folks are individuals, they all have different feelings, they are all truely unique and just accept them as they are.

Life is to short to argue over such small matters. Learn to appreciate the uniqueness of humanity, not berrate each other for being different.

Tam.
This is so true, i really hate when a thread degenerates in this way, there is no need for it and it solves nothing, and pursuades no one.

This is so true, i really hate when a thread degenerates in this way, there is no need for it and it solves nothing, and pursuades no one.
Well, if you want to worship pebbles:loopy:

Well, if you want to worship pebbles:loopy:
I don't remember even mentioning pebbles Grahame let alone that i worship them so i wonder how you came to that conclusion? perhaps it is you who are a bit :loopy:.

I don't remember even mentioning pebbles Grahame let alone that i worship them so i wonder how you came to that conclusion? perhaps it is you who are a bit :loopy:.
Ok I see what you are saying. But I meant beliefs about religion.

And sorry for my :loopy: ;) ;) ;) hope they make up for it

Personally, and I doubt I would be speaking for all pagans here, but I believe there is energy all around us. I believe in energy in pebbles, streams etc. But I don't see that as being a very humanised "spirit" if you understand what I mean. Whereas a Christian has very "human" forms of God and the Devil as real beings, I worship more the life force of the earth and nature.

I understand this has no "scientific" evidence, but that is what faith is all about at the end of the day. Some people choose to have faith in religions that are not supported by science but they do this because it fufills their lives. Others however do not choose faith...it's all about how people chose to live their own personal lives.


Pebbles and streams.
The pebbles represent us (humans) and the stream represents what we allow to mould/shape us. Well that's another way of looking at things.

In the beginning (couldn't resist that one), didn't religion represent the laws within a society? Cultural beliefs would have had a direct influence on this so I suppose looking at where each religion originated would make sense.

Found something that may answer some questions.

http://www.paganlink.org/uk-info/local_info/yorkshire.html

So pebbles have no place in paganism and wicca?

So pebbles have no place in paganism and wicca?
I don't remember saying i was pagan, wiccan, christian or any other religion, i merely pointed out that it is a shame people are so intolerant and rude as to take over the OP's thread by this pointless debating about the rights and wrongs of his/her religious beliefs.
Anyones religious beliefs are both personal and sacred, i just do not understand what people get out of riduculing and getting upset with others because of them. and that goes for both sides of the argument.
My mother used to say something that is very apt to this post " a man persuaded against his will is of the same opinion still" and that is most true in this case.

Here are some pagan people I know.

http://groups.msn.com/bossybishopsandnaughtynuns/secretsofthegrav.msnw?all_topics=1

Ok Grayham, we get that you are christian and for some reason feel a need to nit pic and debate with the pagans on here.

Wouldn't it just be easier to accept people's differences instead of trying to provoke a response?

Live and Let live.

I wish it were possible to live and let live, the trouble is they are into Robin Hood and there is no escaping them. They have given the Robin Hood legend a bad name. They say there is a vampire in his grave and they have upset the landowner. They keep trespasing and doing strange things when it is dark. It has caused a lot of trouble in the surrounding area.

There seems to be just a couple of main posters there, and i would like to bet they are not over 16 years old, surely you cannot tar everyone with the same brush as the owners of these adolescent rants.

There seems to be just a couple of main posters there, and i would like to bet they are not over 16 years old, surely you cannot tar everyone with the same brush as the owners of these adolescent rants.
Yes you are right, Catherine and Barbara. They have been banned from most forums. They have friends in London, I don't know if you have heard of the Highgate vampire and David Farrant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highgate_Vampire

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Hirudo/manchester.html

http://www.shroudeater.com/abeyondh.htm

http://www.insidepulse.com/article.php?contentid=36819

http://darkjourney.proboards18.com/index.cgi

There are lots more. The last board is run by Catherine Fearnly, David Farrants girl friend. By the way Barbara Green is 60 plus Catherine is 36 not really adolescents.

No i don't know anything about them and doubt i would want to to be honest, i am suprised at their ages, but i am sure they are not representative of the vast majority of pagans.
But this debate really is in the wrong place if you want to debate the right, wrongs and beliefs of paganism you should start a thread for the purpose of such and not use this one

No i don't know anything about them and doubt i would want to to be honest, i am suprised at their ages, but i am sure they are not representative of the vast majority of pagans.
But this debate really is in the wrong place if you want to debate the right, wrongs and beliefs of paganism you should start a thread for the purpose of such and not use this one
No, I'm not really bothered, but what they get up to is awful. They reckon to be some sort of national organisation and I thought you might be members that was all.

Thanks.

I may be way off here but i thought paganism was about not having a religon. I thought it was about cherishing the earth that we are given and and how it feeds us and takes care of us. The "rituals" were merely a way of showing respect and gratitude for the animal we had hunted, the trees and plants that had given us food and health etc. What are considered spells were people using what they had around them to cure ailments and illnesses. It was down to how these people lived that we know some much about our worlds natural way to take of us and how we should look after it. Alot of peoples stresses and exhaustion that we have now could be down to how out of sinc we are with nature. in the past we would have worked from first light in the morning till dark when we would eat a hearty meal. Then in the winter months less light meant stocking up and staying in the warmth. Come spring time we would have celebrated the warmer days and the new born animals. Anway i think i have waffled on and forgot my point somewhere. Basicly i dont worship the devil or any superiorer beings etc. I believe we should respect our world and look after it. even down to the tiny essential little bugs. I think we shoud be aware of how the seasons the months and the moons and everything else affect our bodies and how we live. I dont do "magic" but i make my kids cough medicine all be it with a kettle or cooker instead of a couldren. but then again our ansestors didnt have argos or a plug socket. I try to be a good person and help people anyway i can. Not because i believe i am a sinner if i dont but because i should and because i believe that my love and kindness keeps people strong as other peoples love does to me. If you do have a religon that is your right and nobody has the right to tell you its wrong unless you hurt someone else as a result of it. We all have faith in somthing wether that be god, jehovah or whoever else you chose. My faith is in my children and my family and my will to always be a good honest person. I wont be sacrificeing any cows but then again i only have to go down to netto for some rump. I do though have great respect for the cow that lost his life so me and my children could eat and hope that he had a wonderful life before.

crikey that got a bit long winded.

I'm a pagan. By that I mean that I express my spirituality through marking the seasons and the natural rhythms of the earth. I'm not here to argue that my way is the only way, just that it makes me happy.

looks like Grahame got riled, not by Pagans or Wiccans. Seemed to me the articles he linked to are to a bunch of would be self publicising Satanists or some other antichristian grouping.

Personally it was the pushing of religious views and intolerance that turned me off catholicism, despite having a aunt who's a nun and an uncle, who I think is now a 'monsignor'.

Like a lot, I've researched through Wicca, paganism, buddhism etc etc. Came to the conclusion that there are themes central to all. I practice some 'rituals', but I'm not Wiccan or pagan, I have a respect for the traditions of others and realise I don't know enough to claim that path as my own. I currently follow my own path.

well if thats not been enough to put you off our wiccan brethren nothing will. my advice is read, anything you're not sure about cross reference untill you're sure. practise solitary, a hedge witch is a happy witch and above all don't do anything you're not comfortable with. i'm a great advocate of the kitchen witch. blessed be and don't get mixed up in a religios debate because everybody involved has to be right.

Hi all you witches out there

I want some advice please, im desperate. What are your thoughts on love spells. I want to bring a long lost love back and need some help. All love spells welcome xx

you should never use spells to control any one's will. A spell should be used on yourself to make you more atractive to other people. Plus once a spell is cast its harder to retract it than it was to cast it.

there's pagan activity at thornseat lodge and around broomhead reservoir..

I thought all christian religions were Pagan?

As I understand it, the origin of the word Pagan meant any religion NOT Christian.

I have not read all the posts but have you tried airey fairy they have pagan events there. They might know where the pagans are.

I wish there was a like button on here.

paganism is the worship of false gods,
it is not a good idea to offend the true God Jehovah.
think about what you are doing, your eternal future depends on it

There is no god. When you die that's it, end of
:loopy:

Ok there might not be a god. But when you die that is not it. The memory of your life go on. Your essence(or life force) goes on. Your remains if buried feeds the earth. Everything comes from earth and returns to earth (simplified). Its called the cycle of life. :)

Pagans are a life and well and living in Circle of Friends. ;)

Ok there might not be a god. But when you die that is not it. The memory of your life go on. Your essence(or life force) goes on. Your remains if buried feeds the earth. Everything comes from earth and returns to earth (simplified). Its called the cycle of life. :)

Good analogy, i like this,:) better than believing in a spook.