The other night around 11pm I settled down to watch a bit of TV and found I had the following choice;

BBC2 - "Mad Men"; a bland, glossy US drama about advertising executives.
ITV - "Dexter"; a bland, glossy US drama about a serial killer.
C4 - "Dirty Sexy Money"; a bland, glossy US drama about lawyers.

And if I could get Channel 5 I would also have had the choice of watching "CSI Miami"; a bland, glossy US drama about...well, what ever a CSI is.

I thought this migth just be a bad night for TV, but if you look in the TV schedules, bland glossy US dramas are everywhere; "Desperate Housewives", "Lost", "Heroes", "Pushing Daisies", the list is endless!

And they all blur into one; every character is smart and beautiful but ultimately shallow and superficial, the plots are largely interchangeable, consisting of people backstabbing and double crossing each other in their insatiable search for money, status or sex. Yes, they're glossy and glamourous but they're all so bland and utterly utterly DULL!

I know that TV has dumbed down to the extent that even a slug would feel intellectually insulted by ITV's output for example, but can';t we do better than this? Can't British companies look beyond America and import programmes from other countries as well? Or is the idea that British television companies can actually buy (or even make) their own quality programmes such a ridiculous and outdated idea?

Have to say that I've got into Madmen and Dexter but I stopped watching Dirty Sexy Money. Shame they can't bring 6 feet Under back.

This is why I spent most of last night watching BBC4's medieval season. Every now and then the odd bit of gloss is OK, but I've got better things to do with my time.

I don't think Dexter is bland at all.

I normally can't be bothered with glossy, slick, American dramas, but "Dirty, Sexy Money" is shaping up really well. It seems to be a modern slick "Dallasty" on the surface - but it's actually potentially very subversive, I think.

I think the programme takes the line of what a disgrace it is that these dysfunctional people have so much power and money they simply don't know what to do with it. This one family has vaults throughout the city, crammed with money they just throw in there because they don't know what else to do with it.

Certainly, the 'children' of the family are figures of fun and ridicule in the programme more than anything else.

The central lawyer character is obviously so much morally superior to the lot of them put together - but you can see how gradually he's going to get pulled down into their web, despite himself. It'll be interesting to see if he does manage to find his answers without compromising his own sense of right and wrong, at least too greatly.

It's inevitable I think though, that the Family are going to pull him away from his feisty wife, whose integrity is equal to his, and who is already sickened by their world.

Peter Krause does seem to have a knack of taking on interesting roles in excellent series.

StarSparkle

PS btw, the best drama around is without question "Battlestar Galactica". If you want to see truly great drama - brilliant writing and excellent acting, that demands sheer, gripping involvement in the storyline, you genuinely can't beat it.

Mad Men is one of the greatest works of dramatic television I've seen in years, easily up there with the Sopranos. It may be glossy, but it certainly is not dull.

I don't personally see what all the fuss is about over Heroes, it's just an X Men rip off.

this is just one of the many reasons why i chucked my tv away years ago.

but to answer the OP, probly cos it's cheaper than writing / commissioning anything worth watching

And what bland British TV is on tonight 17th April loads i'll stick with House,Hero,The Kill Point.

Ah! But desperate housewives is good innit?

And what bland British TV is on tonight 17th April loads i'll stick with House,Hero,The Kill Point.I'll watch House as well. possibly the best thing on

I must say I have never watched all these. I have only recently sat through a whole episode of Friends! Never appealed! Always out really, and when I am not I couldn't be bothered to stay up as they seem to always be on late.

Although, I did watch a couple episodes of Ugly Betty.

And what bland British TV is on tonight 17th April loads i'll stick with House,Hero,The Kill Point.

Exactly. I've got the weekly TV guide in front of me and I'm having trouble finding anything I'd want to spend my time watching that wasn't made in America.

People watch America TV shows because generally British TV companies can't be bothered to make anything that is comparable and when they do try, 95% of the time the end product is truly awful.

I'll stick with watching HBO shows.

*wanders off to dig out Band Of Brothers*

I like Desperate Housewives but i cant get into anything else like that!

And doesnt Pushing Daisy's have that british lass in it? Anna Freil or someone?

OK...my guilty TV secrets.

I enjoy Dirty Sexy Money - it's so wonderfully OTT it's just great! And I'm eagerly looking forward to the return of Californication.

As for my liking of Battlestar Galactica - no guilt involved at all! :)

I'll watch House as well. possibly the best thing on

What amazes me about House is that, four seasons in, and I still think they have yet to make a bad episode. Every one of them is fantastic, whereas shows I have obsessed over in the past (Buffy, Angel) occasionally have stinkers of episodes.

I'll stick with watching HBO shows.

*wanders off to dig out Band Of Brothers*

So far I have agreed with almost every word of this thread, but BoB is the one exception to the rule. Possibly the greatest TV series ever made. I hear they are currently making another one all about the war in the pacific. Can't wait for that.

I have to say most of what I watch at the moment is "American Gloss" I really like
Dexter, Bones, CSI, Medium, Supernatural I watch them because they are far superior to the crap made by British TV most of the time all that just seems to be tat. The only thing worth watching at the moment is Waking The Dead.

http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=65993&in_page_id=2

I know that TV has dumbed down to the extent that even a slug would feel intellectually insulted by ITV's output for example, but can';t we do better than this?

We do good comedy and natural history, but the "drama" stuff is pretty rubbish, Eastenders, Corronation Street, The Bill, Holby City etc. etc. are just as dull as their US counterparts, with the added "bonus" that the same people are in all of them, they just move from one show to the other once they die.

The only US export I really watch (apart from the wrestling) is The Simpsons really, did you know that in Venesuala(sp?) several years ago, they cancelled The Simpsons from early morning kids' TV citing that it wasn't apt for youngsters, but apparently replaced it with Baywatch! :loopy:

I may be wrong, but Baywatch is even less apt for young kids IMO than Simpsons, because it features scantily clad lasses in smaller than small Bikinis! :shocked:

The only US export I really watch (apart from the wrestling) is The Simpsons really, did you know that in Venesuala(sp?) several years ago, they cancelled The Simpsons from early morning kids' TV citing that it wasn't apt for youngsters, but apparently replaced it with Baywatch! :loopy:

I may be wrong, but Baywatch is even less apt for young kids IMO than Simpsons, because it features scantily clad lasses in smaller than small Bikinis! :shocked:

But The Simpsons is totally subversive, while "Baywatch" - isn't :P

I think you'll find that's the explanation

StarSparkle

We do good comedy and natural history, but the "drama" stuff is pretty rubbish, Eastenders, Corronation Street, The Bill, Holby City etc. etc. are just as dull as their US counterparts, with the added "bonus" that the same people are in all of them, they just move from one show to the other once they die.

I would class all of the above (with the possible exception of the latest Holby spin off) as soaps, rather than dramas. How about Life on Mars, Waking the Dead, Silent Witness, Dr Who... Any of these are of equal quality to the stuff churned out on the other side o the Atlantic, usually with a much smaller budget.

What really drives me mad are the endless 'talent' shows that all the terrestrial channels seem to be throwing huge amounts of cash at. Who will be the next Oliver/Joseph/Nancy/Mary Poppins? Do I care? Nope.

I would class all of the above (with the possible exception of the latest Holby spin off) as soaps, rather than dramas. How about Life on Mars, Waking the Dead, Silent Witness, Dr Who... Any of these are of equal quality to the stuff churned out on the other side o the Atlantic, usually with a much smaller budget.


I don't actually agree with the original poster.

The UK schedules have always been populated by American shows, I grew up watching most of them!
I use to love watching cops shows like Starsky and Hutch, Hawii Five O, Kojak, Columbo, The Streets of San Fransisco, Cagney & Lacey, Hill St Blues.
If the UK schedules didn't include the US shows back then then we probably have nothing but Open university or the test card to watch.

Today is no different except there are more channels and therefore more American shows made available.
Not all the American shows are bland, Supernatural is a "must see" for me and I also like "Medium", precisely because they aren't bland!
The UK usually can't compete with the budget of many of the US shows and it tends to show.
The Bill is very dull and unexciting for a cop show, and Life on Mars never really pulled me in.
Again I never really got too into Silent witness.
The early series of Waking the dead use to be okay and Spooks appealed because it was a little more gritty than the usual British fayre.

Sure there are some bland US shows, but there are a fair number of British shows that are bland with no gloss!

I must say I have never watched all these. I have only recently sat through a whole episode of Friends! Never appealed! Always out really, and when I am not I couldn't be bothered to stay up as they seem to always be on late.

Although, I did watch a couple episodes of Ugly Betty.

I have not watched a full episode of any of the shows mentioned, not sure if i'm missing out on anything. You are brave watching a full episode of Friends however. Get well soon, hope it didn't do too much damage.

:D:D:D

But The Simpsons is totally subversive, while "Baywatch" - isn't :P

I think you'll find that's the explanation

StarSparkle

sadly, the simpsons isnt totally subversive - it helps make the murdochs even richer :(

Also the Simpsons seem to be immune from ageing process, after over 10 years, Bart's still an 8 year old, Lisa's still 6, and Maggie's still a baby! And Marge's blue hair hasn't gone grey! :lol:

sadly, the simpsons isnt totally subversive - it helps make the murdochs even richer :(

Clearly you don't pay enough attention to it if that's what you think

Starsparkle

Clearly you don't pay enough attention to it if that's what you think

Starsparkle

I believe it's still produced by FOX, ie part of News Corp. If so, it does, if not I'm wrong.

To be brutally honest they're cheap to purchase. An episode of prime time US telly will attract a price around the £400,000 per episode mark. To make an equivalent show here would cost significantly more. For example Waking the Dead comprising two one hour episodes will have a budget of around two to three million per story (2 episodes).

New television is extremely expensive. Thus Broadcasters look for others to take on the risk and then simply buy in from abroad. If a show is particularly well received a Broadcaster will often commision a similar show in the knowledge that they will be able to cover the productions costs.

As a slight side note I am very surprised that ITV1 have dropped the second episode of "Pushing Daisies" from their schedule to lack of space. For a show thats being broadcast at the time it is and for what it's cost them, both in terms of purchasing costs and advertising monies spent (excess of £2m), it seems odd for them to just drop an episode. It seems to say that the show has no continual narrative and that missing episodes will in no way alter the way the viewer consumes the programme. Hardly the idea ITV1 would want to put across you would hav thought they would have wanted to encourage people to watch all the episodes.

I believe it's still produced by FOX, ie part of News Corp. If so, it does, if not I'm wrong.

It is broadcast by Fox it is however produced by Phil Roman Inc. In the contract Fox have with Matt Groening it states that provided that all broadcasting regulations are adhered to, then Fox cannot ask for any of the content to be changed. It is to the best of my knowledge the only program in the US to have this clause. It is definitely the only show on Fox to have this.

The other night around 11pm I settled down to watch a bit of TV and found I had the following choice;

BBC2 - "Mad Men"; a bland, glossy US drama about advertising executives.
ITV - "Dexter"; a bland, glossy US drama about a serial killer.
C4 - "Dirty Sexy Money"; a bland, glossy US drama about lawyers.

And if I could get Channel 5 I would also have had the choice of watching "CSI Miami"; a bland, glossy US drama about...well, what ever a CSI is.

I thought this migth just be a bad night for TV, but if you look in the TV schedules, bland glossy US dramas are everywhere; "Desperate Housewives", "Lost", "Heroes", "Pushing Daisies", the list is endless!

And they all blur into one; every character is smart and beautiful but ultimately shallow and superficial, the plots are largely interchangeable, consisting of people backstabbing and double crossing each other in their insatiable search for money, status or sex. Yes, they're glossy and glamourous but they're all so bland and utterly utterly DULL!

I know that TV has dumbed down to the extent that even a slug would feel intellectually insulted by ITV's output for example, but can';t we do better than this? Can't British companies look beyond America and import programmes from other countries as well? Or is the idea that British television companies can actually buy (or even make) their own quality programmes such a ridiculous and outdated idea?

Isn't bland and glossy contradictory.
Either they are glossy, with high polish and shining attributes.
Or they are bland, dull, nothing to catch your interest.

The two things are opposites.

Also I think that you're generalisations about these shows are completely inaccurate. I find that the characters in some of them are well thought out and developed, the plots are engaging and they have a story arc running through any given series.
Given the choice between (for example) a US or UK production of effectively the same thing, I'd choose the US one every time, for example, Casualty Vs ER, there is simply no comparison in the quality of the show, the amount of drama and the interest it generates. Casualty is like watching my mum at work (she's a nurse) it's dull, real life is like that, but TV isn't supposed to be. ER I'm sure is nothing at all like an American emergency room, but that's not the point, it's got stuff going on, the characters are all flawed and imperfect in interesting ways and they certainly aren't all hollywood beautiful.

Since we seem to be doing lists I'm currently watching (in no particular order)

Terminator series
Heroes (well, when it starts Thursday)
My Name is Earl
Boston Legal
ER
Desperate Housewives
Property Ladder
Grand Designs

I have 24 series 6 to watch but not started yet

Currently waiting for
Greys Anatomy
Battlestar Galactica (I don't have sky one, stupid virgin)

I've scheduled
Moonlight - not convinced really, watched 2 episodes so far.

Don't believe theres a CSI series on at the moment, so not watching that.

I think Will and Grace is just fabulous. I have a few series on dvd.:)

The other night around 11pm I settled down to watch a bit of TV and found I had the following choice;

BBC2 - "Mad Men"; a bland, glossy US drama about advertising executives.
ITV - "Dexter"; a bland, glossy US drama about a serial killer.
C4 - "Dirty Sexy Money"; a bland, glossy US drama about lawyers.
So if Dexter & Mad Men are 'bland' and 'intellectually insulting' what kind of dramas do you consider worthy?

It is broadcast by Fox it is however produced by Phil Roman Inc. In the contract Fox have with Matt Groening it states that provided that all broadcasting regulations are adhered to, then Fox cannot ask for any of the content to be changed. It is to the best of my knowledge the only program in the US to have this clause. It is definitely the only show on Fox to have this.

ok, not produced. but according to the same wikipedia article that mentioned that contract clause, this is also true:

It (the movie) opened at the top of the international box office, taking $96 million from seventy-one overseas territories — including $27.8 million in the United Kingdom, making it Fox's second highest opening ever in that country.

so, the simpsons makes money for murdoch :mad:

Casualty is like watching my mum at work (she's a nurse) it's dull, real life is like that

I hear what you are saying ,and I agree generally the American programs beat their UK equivalents by being a little more glossy and extravagent and that makes them less bland than their UK counterparts.
Like I mentioned before which is going to be more exciting to watch the likes of Holby Blue and the Bill, or Hawii five O and The Streets of San Fransisco?
Not really much of a contest even though Hawaii five O and The Streets Of San Fransisco are at least 25 years older than Holby Blue or The Bill.

I do find Casualty really unrealistic though, I mean do all the patience that come into Holby city accident and emergency ward really blurt out their life history, and their long held secrets, and their troubles to total strangers, whilst bleeding all over the place! :roll:

ok, not produced. but according to the same wikipedia article that mentioned that contract clause, this is also true:



so, the simpsons makes money for murdoch :mad:

I never disputed the fact it made money for Murdoch. I merely argued that he, or Fox, had any say over it's content.

Isn't bland and glossy contradictory.
Either they are glossy, with high polish and shining attributes.
Or they are bland, dull, nothing to catch your interest.

The two things are opposites.


A fair point, but I would argue that the shows I mentioned in my first post are glossy insofar as that they all have a kind of surface sheen of glamour and style that is ultimately superficial, yet they're also bland in that the characters and plots are weak, predictable and two-dimensional.

As to who to blame for the lack of depth, maybe the writers lack the talent to write interesting multilayered scripts, maybe the actors lack the skills to do anything beyond pouting and shouting, or maybe the fault lies with the American psyche. The US viewing public is in general much more shallow and superficial than the British viewing public, hence maybe they don't want to be confronting with anything too demanding or intellectually-stimulating?

Ifor example, Casualty Vs ER, there is simply no comparison in the quality of the show, the amount of drama and the interest it generates. Casualty is like watching my mum at work (she's a nurse) it's dull, real life is like that, but TV isn't supposed to be. ER I'm sure is nothing at all like an American emergency room, but that's not the point, it's got stuff going on, the characters are all flawed and imperfect in interesting ways and they certainly aren't all hollywood beautiful.

I agress - although I think that the UK, and the BBC in particular can make some fantastic dramas on a limited budget, when it comes to medical dramas, the US beats us hands down. I have been a long term fan of ER, and even though it's not as good as it was in its glory days on Doug Ross, Mark Greene and Carter, it still knocks to socks of the likes of Casualty and Holby, which are full of cliched characters and dull storylines.
House, starring our very own Hugh Laurie is also a great example, though the character is so twisted and cynical I'm suprised that it's gone down so well in the States.

A fair point, but I would argue that the shows I mentioned in my first post are glossy insofar as that they all have a kind of surface sheen of glamour and style that is ultimately superficial, yet they're also bland in that the characters and plots are weak, predictable and two-dimensional.

As to who to blame for the lack of depth, maybe the writers lack the talent to write interesting multilayered scripts, maybe the actors lack the skills to do anything beyond pouting and shouting, or maybe the fault lies with the American psyche. The US viewing public is in general much more shallow and superficial than the British viewing public, hence maybe they don't want to be confronting with anything too demanding or intellectually-stimulating?

Other than your own preconceptions, what are you basing that on?

Face it, British TV has been in decline for years. When was the last time in this country we produced a programme that made you want to stay in of a night and watch it?

When was the last time we produced a decent drama that wasnt a rehash of some period piece that we have seen time and time and time again?

And while we are at it - what was the last truly funny mainstream comedy we made? My Hero?:gag: My Family?:gag::gag: Vicar of Dibley?:gag::gag::gag:

I know that American TV has more money throw at their programmes, but even without this, the US is leading the way in innovative Drama and Comedy (Can you imagine a British version of Lost? 24? Battlestar Galactica? or Curb Your Enthusiasm?). We, IMO, have nothing to compare.

Other than your own preconceptions, what are you basing that on?

Face it, British TV has been in decline for years. When was the last time in this country we produced a programme that made you want to stay in of a night and watch it?

When was the last time we produced a decent drama that wasnt a rehash of some period piece that we have seen time and time and time again?

And while we are at it - what was the last truly funny mainstream comedy we made? My Hero?:gag: My Family?:gag::gag: Vicar of Dibley?:gag::gag::gag:

I know that American TV has more money throw at their programmes, but even without this, the US is leading the way in innovative Drama and Comedy (Can you imagine a British version of Lost? 24? Battlestar Galactica? or Curb Your Enthusiasm?). We, IMO, have nothing to compare.

Well of course I have my own preconceptions, just like you have, but you’re missing the point; the question isn’t “Is US drama better than British drama”, it’s “Why is British TV obsessed with bland, glossy American dramas?”


I much prefer comedy to drama and would turn the question back on you and list some of the great British comedies; Yes Minister, Monty Python, The Fall & Rise Of Reginald Perrin, Fawlty Towers, One Foot In The Grave, Blackadder, The League Of Gentlemen, Alan Partridge, The Day Today….
Could you imagine a US company making anything in that league?
Indeed, much of what passes for US comedy is watered-down remakes of British comedy, such as the American version of The Office.

Furthermore, the purpose of American television is not to make intelligent, entertaining television, it’s purely to sell advertising space. There’s no state-funded channel to educate, therefore the schedules are driven almost totally by advertising revenue, hence anything that doesn;’t maximise ratings ‘cause it’s too “left-field” can be cancelled before it’s even finished its first series. There was a very clever UK comedy series called “Coupling” which suffered such a fate in the US, for example.

Unfortunately, nobody seems to be making decent comedy anymore, possibly because the “sitcom” slot in TV programming has been replaced by “reality” shows, comedy-dramas (which are neither funny nor dramatic) and yet more US imports! BBC2’s Thursday comedy night for example is this week replaced by, guess what, a bland glossy American drama called “Heroes”! Apparently it’s about some superheroes trying to save the world from destruction – over here, isn’t that sort of thing normally classed as a kids programme?

I rest my case!

I never disputed the fact it made money for Murdoch. I merely argued that he, or Fox, had any say over it's content.

but that was never my point. forums eh? :suspect:

Well of course I have my own preconceptions, just like you have, but you’re missing the point; the question isn’t “Is US drama better than British drama”, it’s “Why is British TV obsessed with bland, glossy American dramas?”

I much prefer comedy to drama and would turn the question back on you and list some of the great British comedies; Yes Minister, Monty Python, The Fall & Rise Of Reginald Perrin, Fawlty Towers, One Foot In The Grave, Blackadder, The League Of Gentlemen, Alan Partridge, The Day Today….
Could you imagine a US company making anything in that league?
Indeed, much of what passes for US comedy is watered-down remakes of British comedy, such as the American version of The Office.

But all the examples that you have given were made, for the most part, at least 10 years ago. Of course there was a time when British comedy ruled the waves - and most modern comedy owes a great deal to Monty Python. However, we haven’t produced anything nearing that quality in a while. The last TV comedy that neared those heights for me was 'Spaced' and that was what, 6 years ago, something like that? And even then, it wasn’t what you would call a mainstream comedy. We still do funny 'niche' programmes, but we have lost the knack of producing funny programmes that appeal to a mainstream audience. The Office and Extras went someway towards attaining that, but only after Gervais drew 'inspiration' from Larry David.

Furthermore, the purpose of American television is not to make intelligent, entertaining television, it’s purely to sell advertising space. There’s no state-funded channel to educate, therefore the schedules are driven almost totally by advertising revenue, hence anything that doesn;’t maximise ratings ‘cause it’s too “left-field” can be cancelled before it’s even finished its first series. There was a very clever UK comedy series called “Coupling” which suffered such a fate in the US, for example.

You mean Coupling, the British version of Friends? I'm sorry Bas but the facts don’t bare your theory out. Few programmes could be more leftfield than Lost surely? Yet that seems to do pretty well. Similarly Battlestar Galactica, although not a programme I care for, is none the less a very clever drama, which doesn’t patronise the audience in any way. Ditto Dexter. Good quality shows will always make it, there just seem to be more being made in America these days than the UK.

So, in answer to your original question, the reason British TV is obsessed with American drama at the minute is because the only place to see well made, innovative and thought provoking drama IS the US - and what’s more, there is clearly an appetite for these programmes in this country.

but that was never my point. forums eh? :suspect:

The point here is surely that a programme (Or program? never sure about that one!) which reinforces the status quo (ie, makes Murdoch bucketloads of cash) cannot be considered subversive?

On the other hand, a programme that manages to be commissioned by Fox despite mocking just about everything that capitalists hold dear must be doing something right!

The point here is surely that a programme (Or program? never sure about that one!) which reinforces the status quo (ie, makes Murdoch bucketloads of cash) cannot be considered subversive?

On the other hand, a programme that manages to be commissioned by Fox despite mocking just about everything that capitalists hold dear must be doing something right!

Oh thank God - someone else who understands what the "Simpsons" are really all about. I was beginning to lose hope there

StarSparkle

Well of course I have my own preconceptions, just like you have, but you’re missing the point; the question isn’t “Is US drama better than British drama”, it’s “Why is British TV obsessed with bland, glossy American dramas?”


I much prefer comedy to drama and would turn the question back on you and list some of the great British comedies; Yes Minister, Monty Python, The Fall & Rise Of Reginald Perrin, Fawlty Towers, One Foot In The Grave, Blackadder, The League Of Gentlemen, Alan Partridge, The Day Today….
Could you imagine a US company making anything in that league?
Indeed, much of what passes for US comedy is watered-down remakes of British comedy, such as the American version of The Office.

Furthermore, the purpose of American television is not to make intelligent, entertaining television, it’s purely to sell advertising space. There’s no state-funded channel to educate, therefore the schedules are driven almost totally by advertising revenue, hence anything that doesn;’t maximise ratings ‘cause it’s too “left-field” can be cancelled before it’s even finished its first series. There was a very clever UK comedy series called “Coupling” which suffered such a fate in the US, for example.

Unfortunately, nobody seems to be making decent comedy anymore, possibly because the “sitcom” slot in TV programming has been replaced by “reality” shows, comedy-dramas (which are neither funny nor dramatic) and yet more US imports! BBC2’s Thursday comedy night for example is this week replaced by, guess what, a bland glossy American drama called “Heroes”! Apparently it’s about some superheroes trying to save the world from destruction – over here, isn’t that sort of thing normally classed as a kids programme?

I rest my case!

I'd like to agree with you, Basil, but I really can't.

The great British comedies you refer to are all ancient history now - nothing approaching their level of cleverness or sheer comedic talent is being produced today. 'Comedy' today is a shell of what used to be produced - most of the time it's so unfunny it makes me want to weep rather than laugh.

Even Drama - where Britain used to excel - is made so much better in the US these days - apart from the odd rough diamond of sheer quality like "Shameless".

Vitually everything that is a must-see for me these days is American. I'm embarrassed to say it, but it's true. Britain has simply nothing to offer in opposition to programmes such as "Battlestar Galactica", "Lost", "The Lost Room", "ER", etc. It's not just a question of the Americans having more money to spend and therefore better special effects, or whatever - it's a question of British tv simply not having the quality of Ideas, Imagination, Excitement, Scripts, fantastic characterisation and viewer involvement that so much American drama now has.

Those things used to be Britain's forte - imagination and sheer bloody good writing. You couldn't move for it in the 60s and even the 70s. What's happened? It's all gone. Some would claim it's all ended up in the soaps and say that Britain heads the world there - but as I find most soap operas to be utterly mind-numbing, I don't tend to watch them. But I find it all rather sad.

It's all jobs for the boys (and their ex girlfriends), I'm afraid, in British tv today, and boy - does it show...

StarSparkle

The way comedy is written in the US and here is very different too, here it's often one person writing the entire series, if you don't like their style of jokes then the entire series will be unfunny for you, in the US they have several writers working at the same time, then they pick the best jokes from all of them, they have different styles and you're more likely to find something funny.

On the other hand, a programme that manages to be commissioned by Fox despite mocking just about everything that capitalists hold dear must be doing something right!

making Mat Groenig a multi millionare for one thing.

The thing I've never been able to understand is why we can’t produce a decent animated comedy show in this country?

I don’t think any comedy makes me laugh out loud these days the way that Family Guy and American Dad do, yet when we try something similar, they are almost always universally pants (with the exception of Monkey Trousers, but even that was hit and miss).

What makes it more frustrating is that we still do good, surreal off the wall comedy over here. Think Greenwing, Mighty Booch, Garth Marenghi, League of Gentlemen et al.

Oh thank God - someone else who understands what the "Simpsons" are really all about. I was beginning to lose hope there

StarSparkle

you dont think that maybe murdoch just laughs at all those "simpsons are soooooooooo subversive" types, as he takes their money and stuffs it in his own back pocket.

i'm beginning to despair at people not understanding those who's first love is money

The point here is surely that a programme (Or program? never sure about that one!) which reinforces the status quo (ie, makes Murdoch bucketloads of cash) cannot be considered subversive?

On the other hand, a programme that manages to be commissioned by Fox despite mocking just about everything that capitalists hold dear must be doing something right!

yes, it gives the armchair subversives something unreal to believe in

you dont think that maybe murdoch just laughs at all those "simpsons are soooooooooo subversive" types, as he takes their money and stuffs it in his own back pocket.

i'm beginning to despair at people not understanding those who's first love is money

I'm very glad to say I don't understand those whose first love is money - I would be worried about my own moral values if I suddenly started understanding such people

Life's not about money, you know

StarSparkle

I'm very glad to say I don't understand those whose first love is money - I would be worried about my own moral values if I suddenly started understanding such people

Life's not about money, you know

StarSparkle

it's certainly not my own view, but i do think that bearing others' POV in mind, even if you dont agree with it, is a very sensible, and in no way immoral, thing to do.

btw, i do enjoy the simpsons. but not enough to own a tv

Well of course I have my own preconceptions, just like you have, but you’re missing the point; the question isn’t “Is US drama better than British drama”, it’s “Why is British TV obsessed with bland, glossy American dramas?”


I much prefer comedy to drama and would turn the question back on you and list some of the great British comedies; Yes Minister, Monty Python, The Fall & Rise Of Reginald Perrin, Fawlty Towers, One Foot In The Grave, Blackadder, The League Of Gentlemen, Alan Partridge, The Day Today….
Could you imagine a US company making anything in that league?
Indeed, much of what passes for US comedy is watered-down remakes of British comedy, such as the American version of The Office.

Furthermore, the purpose of American television is not to make intelligent, entertaining television, it’s purely to sell advertising space. There’s no state-funded channel to educate, therefore the schedules are driven almost totally by advertising revenue, hence anything that doesn;’t maximise ratings ‘cause it’s too “left-field” can be cancelled before it’s even finished its first series. There was a very clever UK comedy series called “Coupling” which suffered such a fate in the US, for example.

Unfortunately, nobody seems to be making decent comedy anymore, possibly because the “sitcom” slot in TV programming has been replaced by “reality” shows, comedy-dramas (which are neither funny nor dramatic) and yet more US imports! BBC2’s Thursday comedy night for example is this week replaced by, guess what, a bland glossy American drama called “Heroes”! Apparently it’s about some superheroes trying to save the world from destruction – over here, isn’t that sort of thing normally classed as a kids programme?

I rest my case!

I wouldn't rest your case quite yet, all you've done is say that you prefer comedies from the 70's (apart from League of Gentlemen which is great) to dramas and then moan about the fact that the US makes the best drama.

So basically your point is that you don't like modern US drama and unfortunately lots of people do, so it gets shown a lot. Sorry, can't help you, I like it.
And maybe you should watch a programme before you critisize it as being a childs programme.

A fair point, but I would argue that the shows I mentioned in my first post are glossy insofar as that they all have a kind of surface sheen of glamour and style that is ultimately superficial, yet they're also bland in that the characters and plots are weak, predictable and two-dimensional.
Maybe you think this because you haven't actually watched them very closely and/or because you have admitted that you don't like dramas? The sort of comedies that you later list as great TV are hardly epics of characterisation and complex plot lines.

As to who to blame for the lack of depth, maybe the writers lack the talent to write interesting multilayered scripts, maybe the actors lack the skills to do anything beyond pouting and shouting, or maybe the fault lies with the American psyche. The US viewing public is in general much more shallow and superficial than the British viewing public, hence maybe they don't want to be confronting with anything too demanding or intellectually-stimulating?

That can't be true, the British public apparently can't get enough US drama, they love it, that's why it's on. Although I'd submit that it's a different demographic to those watching big bruvva or the latest chav reality show.

TV in general is pretty awful whichever side of the pond you're on.

More channels means more competition, and more competition means more ratings grabbing dross like season five of 'Find Andrew Lloyd Webber an Audience'...

The fact is, to see anything good you've got to pick through what few good shows slip through the net, British or American.

I love House and Firefly was fantastic while it lasted. I'm really enjoying Gavin and Stacey which is on BBC Three at the moment. Not forgetting american police drama The Wire, which was scandalously (but typically) shown only on the 'FX' channel in the UK, which in my opinion is the most brilliant piece of television ever broadcast (buy it on dvd - or acquire it by other means ;) - you will not be disappointed).

Standout shows like these are getting harder to find, with more channels and more tat being churned out, which is where community sites like this one are able to step in.

If you loved firefly you might want to look at this

http://www.fireflyseason2.com/

making Mat Groenig a multi millionare for one thing.

Who's Mat Groenig? :loopy:

Surely you mean Matt Groening don't you? :D

If you loved firefly you might want to look at this

http://www.fireflyseason2.com/

What a fascinating idea! I hope it all works out - that would be brilliant! If anyone can do it, it's Joss Whedon

StarSparkle

What a fascinating idea! I hope it all works out - that would be brilliant! If anyone can do it, it's Joss Whedon

StarSparkle

Oy! This thread is for people who don't like bland, glossy American dramas! If you do like them, start your own thread! :P

Oy! This thread is for people who don't like bland, glossy American dramas! If you do like them, start your own thread! :P

But they're NOT bland, honey, that's the POINT!!

StarSparkle

Who's Mat Groenig? :loopy:

Surely you mean Matt Groening don't you? :D

Are you e-stalking me ?

Oy! This thread is for people who don't like bland, glossy American dramas! If you do like them, start your own thread! :P

It was a thread where we explained that your opinion of them is just that, an opinion, and not shared by most people.

The other night around 11pm I settled down to watch a bit of TV and found I had the following choice;

BBC2 - "Mad Men"; a bland, glossy US drama about advertising executives.
ITV - "Dexter"; a bland, glossy US drama about a serial killer.
C4 - "Dirty Sexy Money"; a bland, glossy US drama about lawyers.

And if I could get Channel 5 I would also have had the choice of watching "CSI Miami"; a bland, glossy US drama about...well, what ever a CSI is.

I thought this migth just be a bad night for TV, but if you look in the TV schedules, bland glossy US dramas are everywhere; "Desperate Housewives", "Lost", "Heroes", "Pushing Daisies", the list is endless!

And they all blur into one; every character is smart and beautiful but ultimately shallow and superficial, the plots are largely interchangeable, consisting of people backstabbing and double crossing each other in their insatiable search for money, status or sex. Yes, they're glossy and glamourous but they're all so bland and utterly utterly DULL!

I know that TV has dumbed down to the extent that even a slug would feel intellectually insulted by ITV's output for example, but can';t we do better than this? Can't British companies look beyond America and import programmes from other countries as well? Or is the idea that British television companies can actually buy (or even make) their own quality programmes such a ridiculous and outdated idea?

I personally wasn't too enamoured with Pushing Daisies, but it's anything but bland. Did you actually watch it?

Andrew.

The US viewing public is in general much more shallow and superficial than the British viewing public, hence maybe they don't want to be confronting with anything too demanding or intellectually-stimulating?

And which British shows have been all that intellectually stimulating of late?

I can't think of too many.

Please enlighten me.