Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?

Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously time while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?

Apparently, The Walnut Club are doing a jazz night - NICE. Sounds just up your street Tony

Sounds like a blues band falling down some stairs.

i dont like jazz- what IS it? where is the pattern? where is the tune? its just a mess! my boyfriend has suddenly discovered a great liking for it. which is why its good we've just moved to a bigger house and can sit in seperate rooms!

Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?

I'm trying not to get on my high horse here. Jazz certainly sounds like a mess to the untrained ear, but then most jazz is not supposed to be "easy listening". Bare in mind most jazz is improvised, so the enjoyment of the music is more on the part of the experimentation, the journey away from the tonic, rather than melodic "hooks" and catchy harmonies that resolve digestibly.

Jazz is a huge genre, and it was the pop music of most of the early-mid 20thC, but this type of jazz was very digestible and tended to follow a formulaic pop convention.

The jazz you're most likely talking about is Free Jazz, which is not as immediately signified to the casual listener as the more MOR jazz would be.

I love jazz as much as I love extreme metal. It's just a form of communication at the end of the day, and you shouldn't try to make it something it's not.

i dont like jazz- what IS it? where is the pattern? where is the tune? its just a mess! my boyfriend has suddenly discovered a great liking for it. which is why its good we've just moved to a bigger house and can sit in seperate rooms!

You're attempting to listen to it in the same context as you would pop music, so no wonder it sounds like a mess. Again, I assume you're talking about free jazz rather than the more MOR stuff.

There IS melody and pattern in there if you listen... you just have to feel what the musician is trying to communicate. Don't expect a nice James Blunt-esque hook that has been rehashed for decades by pop songwriters.

You're attempting to listen to it in the same context as you would pop music, so no wonder it sounds like a mess. Again, I assume you're talking about free jazz rather than the more MOR stuff.

There IS melody and pattern in there if you listen... you just have to feel what the musician is trying to communicate. Don't expect a nice James Blunt-esque hook that has been rehashed for decades by pop songwriters.

i dont really know a lot about it to be honest, what ive heard i am not that keen on. please dont mistake me for a james blunt fan though!

i dont really know a lot about it to be honest, what ive heard i am not that keen on. please dont mistake me for a james blunt fan though!

Sorry, the James Blunt thing wasn't specifically aimed at you!

Like I said, jazz is a huge genre. Don't you like that mellow piano music you often hear in restaurants and hotel lobbies? That's jazz, just more easy listening and pre-composed.

I'm trying not to get on my high horse here. Jazz certainly sounds like a mess to the untrained ear, but then most jazz is not supposed to be "easy listening". Bare in mind most jazz is improvised, so the enjoyment of the music is more on the part of the experimentation, the journey away from the tonic, rather than melodic "hooks" and catchy harmonies that resolve digestibly.

Jazz is a huge genre, and it was the pop music of most of the early-mid 20thC, but this type of jazz was very digestible and tended to follow a formulaic pop convention.

The jazz you're most likely talking about is Free Jazz, which is not as immediately signified to the casual listener as the more MOR jazz would be.

I love jazz as much as I love extreme metal. It's just a form of communication at the end of the day, and you shouldn't try to make it something it's not.

Great post!

Much in the same way as liking death/black metal. It's not "nice" to listen to, but that's the beauty of it. You don't watch a horror film for the pleasant atmosphere of it, you watch it to test your willpower and guts. Whilst I may not like a lot of the free form jazz, I can see why people do as it is just a form of expression.

The nearest I get to it is The Mahavishnu Orchestra. They play quite a mix of rock/jazz/free form/fusion styles. Plus, John McLaughlin is from Yorkshire, so it's all good.

At the end of it all, not everybody likes what everybody else likes. I wouldn't worry.

Sorry, the James Blunt thing wasn't specifically aimed at you!

Like I said, jazz is a huge genre. Don't you like that mellow piano music you often hear in restaurants and hotel lobbies? That's jazz, just more easy listening and pre-composed.

i dont know, guess i just lump it all in together, i'll have a proper listen next time!

Jazz : The last refuge of the talentless. Just below the Channel Five News production team.

Jazz : The last refuge of the talentless. Just below the Channel Five News production team.

What an ignorant post! Talentless? Are you comparing the talent of the jazz greats to your musical talent?

What an ignorant post! Talentless? Are you comparing the talent of the jazz greats to your musical talent?

Typical!

They probably enjoy the mundane "talents" of Westlife or the easy listening of The Killers or summat. You know, artists who get by performing bland formulaic pop.

What an ignorant post! Talentless? Are you comparing the talent of the jazz greats to your musical talent?

To be fair the quote isn't mine its Tony Wilson's. But I have to say I agree with him. My own lack of musical talent has nothing to with my dislike of Jazz.

To be fair the quote isn't mine its Tony Wilson's. But I have to say I agree with him. My own lack of musical talent has nothing to with my dislike of Jazz.

Enlighten us as to what aural delights you pleaseure yourself with.

Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?

No you're not. My untrained ear just hears a cacophany of noise, and like snook says, "like a blues band falling down stairs" but still trying to play their instruments.
I had a couple of years working afternoons with radio Hallam blaring out this God forsaken racket on certain evenings. Oh! the bad old days :) (sorry Jane x)

Enlighten us as to what aural delights you pleaseure yourself with.

As a general rule I don't listen to music. For whatever reason it just doesn't connect with me.

i love jazz...i have loads on vinyl and cd

as has been said.jazz is a huuuuuge genre of mausic and spans from the 1900s (ragtime, scott joplin, the entertainer etc) right up to now and freenoise (which is big in sheffield at the minute i believe) where they take noise, metal, punk, techno etc and use a jazz style structure.

i haphazard a guess that the type of jazz moaned at here is the free / improvised jazz which can be classed as noise, but i love it...its great head**** music :D such as ornette coleman, sun ra, john zorn, pat methany etc.

jazz can be chilled tho...check out miles davis - kind of blue or sketches in spain...both excellent albums and so chilled out its unreal.
also you could go for some 1930s / 1940s / 1950s jazz - trad / be bop etc
stuff like duke ellingon, count basie, glenn miller CANNOT be classed as noisy :P

or a bit of billy holiday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs
this is a great jazz song and one of the finest anti racism songs ever.....very very sad and moving

It is understandable to me as to why people can be baffled by jazz. I am a jazz lover, and have sometimes played in a jazz band or even made straight music sound more jazz like to make it less bland.

As a musiscian I have frequently been bored by music which is the same as all other kinds of music, and Jazz often hits the spot with something extra which makes the world better again.

I would like to recommend Ken Clark's jazz greats programme which is currently on one lunchtime a week on BBC radio 4. He explains about the life and music of one of his jazz heroes. It is very informative and the Ex-Chancellor is a real expert.

We have had Billy Strayhorn, Bix Beiderbeck, Sonny Rollins, and many more.

I think jazz has a bad reputation, everyone seems to think of these scat singers or the fast show parody when jazz is mentioned, when jazz is as broad a spectrum as the term "rock", you have billy holiday, miles davies et all at one end of the spectrum to your likes of mahavishnu orchestra, then artists such as John Zorn, Mike Patton, Joey Baron,Shelley Hirsch etc. who are at the extreme edge of Jazz.

i love jazz...i have loads on vinyl and cd

i haphazard a guess that the type of jazz moaned at here is the free / improvised jazz which can be classed as noise, but i love it...its great head**** music :D such as ornette coleman, sun ra, john zorn, pat methany etc.



Glad someone mentioned Zorn, the guy is a genius, while some of his stuff is way out there and virtually unlistanable (a la some of the Cobra sessions), you have albums like The Gift, the Big Gundown and Taboo and Exile which are musical ecstasy.

To be honest the Free Jazz and John Zorn stuff mostly leaves me befuddled. But not all, as I said earlier I like the theme tunes (and Painkiller blows away the cob-webs :hihi: )

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue and In a Silent Way are my two favourite albums.

I really can't understand how anyone can ignore a whole genre of music, there is always stuff you will like and stuff you won't especially where the range of music classed as Jazz means there is something for everyone.

Jazz was the music my Mum went to see in the 50s as a teenager, Duke Ellington, Dave Brubeck etc.

....how can anyone not love Ella Fitzgerald's voice? Here with Louie Armstrong doing Summertime (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2944615283261560042&q=ella+fitzgerald&total=2423&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0).

Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?


You're not alone per se, but you are fairly isolated among those who appreciate the finer things in life.

There are many kinds of jazz, from bland cocktail bar muzak, to thunderous jazz fusion as popularised by John McLaughlin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra, with all kinds of wonderful music to be discovered inbetween.

Unless you're trolling, of course ;)

im now just listening to
pat methany and ornette coleman - song x
one of the "3 bands all playing different music at the same time" albums :D

thanks
this thread reminded me to listen to it

I'm sitting on the fence on this one.

However, howsabout 'jazz' mags?

That's an easier decision....,

I quite like some jazz...perhaps being into making music makes it a bit more accessible...?

Not a huge fan of the dead fast, dissonant jumble that is free jazz, although always got time for a bit of Miles. Who cares if its a cliche? The bloke did some very cool tunes.

Billy Cobham is also a bit of a legend too. That man's got some bonkers drum skills.

I quite like some jazz...perhaps being into making music makes it a bit more accessible...?

Not a huge fan of the dead fast, dissonant jumble that is free jazz, although always got time for a bit of Miles. Who cares if its a cliche? The bloke did some very cool tunes.

Billy Cobham is also a bit of a legend too. That man's got some bonkers drum skills.
also as drummers go you cant beat gene krupa
i also have an album by charlie watts thats jazzy
also buddy miles started off playing in his fathers jazz band

its like any other kind of music, there's great jazz, and theres ok jazz, theres mediocre jazz and there's downright abysmal jazz. when any kind of music becomes less about communication and more about showing off how technically wizard you are, million note solos, noodling, scat, it just becomes musical onanism, you're not giving anyone pleasure but yourself.

I'm sitting on the fence on this one.

However, howsabout 'jazz' mags?

That's an easier decision....,

Unless the pages are stuck together..... :hihi:

I hate Jazz with a passion. I will up and go if somewhere starts playing that tripe. I HATE it!

And before anyone starts with the snooty stuff about me not appreciating atonality and anything other than the standard pop song format, you are wrong. I'm a fan of The Fall. :D

Good to see this thread is has been successful in bringing White Van Man and all his relatives out of the woodwork ;)

The truth is, jazz is not really rubbish. It wouldn't have thrived for over 100 years if it was.

It's like most other types of music. Some of it is good, some of it is bad, some of it is mediocre. You just need a few reference points to find a way into it and sort the worthwhile stuff from the dross.

For example, I've never been able to get into classical music, but I feel that's my loss as it's obviously a great and important art form.

The same applies to jazz.

Sounds like a blues band falling down some stairs.

This made me laugh so much :hihi:

I really love Jazz though. :cool:

For those who are curious..., check out my good friend, Ms Guy's intrepretation of Jazz.

http://www.canstream.co.uk/sheffieldlive/index.php?cat=LateNightJazzSession

I don't hate it, but then again I don't own a Jazz cd/record and I wouldn't strive to buy one.

My housemate likes Jazz though, so I occasionally listen to it. In addition, I do seem to like a fair few artists that are influenced by Jazz but aren't considered to be the same genre.

freenoise (which is big in sheffield at the minute i believe) where they take noise, metal, punk, techno etc and use a jazz style structure.

There's a freenoise scene in Sheffield?!

Anyway, jazz is awesome. I'm somewhat of an oddity amongst my friends, as although we all share a lot of metal/various rock-based tastes in common, I'm the only one with a massive interest in jazz (damn fellow students). I have a feeling I probably share the same sorta approach as 'leviathan13', 'Mighty_Boosh', and 'epiphany' who all seem to like metal and free/avant-jazz.

I usually find that when trying to talk about jazz with people, they often have little clue about the genre. I find that people usually think it's either all:

- noisy structureless crap that meanders and goes nowhere.
- piano + voice mellow stuff, ala Jamie Cullum (*snore*)
- smooth jazz, ala Kenny G (*vomit*)
- music for pretentious retired old men, and hella boring.

Anyway, yeh, jazz is awesome, and some of the most exciting music I've ever heard. I love many different varieties of it; from really noisy free/avant stuff to more mellow jazz standards. To name just a few (and not name a loada really obscure things no-one'll ever have heard of); some of my favourites are artists like John Coltrane, Last Exit, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Zorn, Ornette Coleman, Keith Jarrett, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Charles Mingus, Pharoah Sanders, Hiromi Uehara; which are all often quite surprising in sound to most people who have a 'wrong' preconceived notion of what jazz is. I think it also often takes time for people to adjust to understanding trumpet/sax as emotive lead instruments too.

For anyone wanting to explore jazz for the first time, have a listen to these. John Coltrane's _A Love Supreme_ often tops 'best ever' charts (currently rated #7 of all-time, from all genres on this site (http://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time)). Anyway, someone on YouTube appears to have uploaded a live performance of the piece, though it's all in parts:
one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMrK7564Egs)
two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbqtA98eg9U)
three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXeACfmYhRU)
four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VehdVl3Ojw)
:)

No you're not. My untrained ear just hears a cacophany of noise, and like snook says, "like a blues band falling down stairs" but still trying to play their instruments.

Heh, you'd hate much music I love then, particularly the various noisy metal/drone things I like. Whee! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGzrL8J0t-c) :D

Well I love a bit of Jazz.

No you're not. My untrained ear just hears a cacophany of noise, and like snook says, "like a blues band falling down stairs" but still trying to play their instruments.
I had a couple of years working afternoons with radio Hallam blaring out this God forsaken racket on certain evenings. Oh! the bad old days :) (sorry Jane x)


Tsk. ;)

Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?Jazz is the only music i know that can make your ears bleed... eternal torture gets my vote!!

No you're not alone at all. My mate Johnny hates it.

Buy Jamie Cullum's albums... though that's probably like buying El Nino in the classical world.

Listened to Jazz FM on digital for an hour or so a week when Classic FM/Galaxy got too much. It closed down this month though.

Was looking forward to it being replaced by looped animal noises like it's sister rock digital station, which closed down earlier this year, has been replaced with Birdsong channel... it just dissapeared though.

How can you not love this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKKpoCy0a5Y

Beware, contains beards, sweaty fat men and double bass solos - the 2nd solo is particularly good.

Those who know me understand that I have a near pathological hatred of jazz.

We won't go near bars or restaurants that have it on and if four middle aged blokes start playing different tunes simultaneously while other middle aged men tap their toes and nod their heads... well we have to leave quickly

Am I alone?


niiiiiiiiiceeee

How can you not love this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKKpoCy0a5Y

Beware, contains beards, sweaty fat men and double bass solos - the 2nd solo is particularly good.

They never quite mastered air-conditioning when Oscar was playing. :hihi:

When watching double bass players playing alongside piano players, I can never quite grasp who is more talented..... :huh: the piano player (in this case Oscar Pete), who has fingers that move faster than Usain Bolt's legs - on speed, or the poor underpaid **** standing in the background with an over sized violin, sporting an unfashionable beard, who manages to not only keep up, but still manages play the right notes. :confused:

To answer the OP, I think I'll agree with koensinger, who summed it up quite well. :)

I'll tick 'Nice'.

I don't know anything about 'freeform', but I love the old jazz greats - especially the voice of Ella Fitzgerald - unique. Sammy Davis, Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Mel Torme, Lena Horne, Billy Holliday - mellow music of our youth.

My OH sang in several big bands up until the early 90s - lots of the dance music they played could be considered jazz/swing. One of the bands was resident at City Hall on Saturday nights some years ago, but it went the way of so much live music. Its much cheaper just to get either a disco or a bloke with a synth! :shakes: Also, anything thats not strict tempo really confuses the sequence dancers. :rolleyes: I'm glad some of it has made a revival - Harry Connick Jnr or Michael Buble anyone?

What Koenigsinger said sums it up for me.

Pat Martino & John Scofield - Sunny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2RRUVAD9Mc

Smooth

Pat Martino & John Scofield - Sunny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2RRUVAD9Mc

Smooth

Mmm, nice organ!

I just love all jazz, especially Latin American.

I like Jazz, I like the chaos and that what happens off beat is as important as on beat

I like Jazz, I like the chaos and that what happens off beat is as important as on beat

We seem to be finding a lot of common ground Disco.:thumbsup:

I'm not a big fan of Jazz either, but don't like to dismiss it completely as there is always an exception to the rule. I do like some of the instruments used in Jazz, but I dislike some of the stereotypical Jazz songs. Music is better when it doesn't conform to a genre or a set formula, because then it is more original. Too many artists replicate music from the past.

I'm not a big fan of Jazz either, but don't like to dismiss it completely as there is always an exception to the rule. I do like some of the instruments used in Jazz, but I dislike some of the stereotypical Jazz songs. Music is better when it doesn't conform to a genre or a set formula, because then it is more original. Too many artists replicate music from the past.

I can't agree entirely with this statement.

Even the most freeform of jazz still conforms to a "genre". It's called freeform.

I like a lot of music that "conforms" to a genre. I love the likes of Metallica, Slayer etc. that come under the banner of "thrash metal". It doesn't mean it's any less effective or moving, or intelligent even, it's just the name to describe a style of music.