What a disgrace yesterday, seeing 'professional football' once again in the gutter. Liverpool FC parading around like some anti social yobs, thinking they are beyond the laws of the game. Their attitude to this beautiful game once again undermines the efforts of those who uphold the virtues of team sport. They ought to look at the game of rugby and just compare the differences in player conduct. I just hope the FA stand up to the bullies and make a big impact with serious consequences.

The Guy (Masscherano) is an idiot,he had no need to get involved in the situation that lead to his red,The situation needs seriously looking at because its getting ridiculous
Personally i think only the Captain should be able to question the referee and anyone else who mutters 1 word in Anger to the ref should recieve automatic yellow
Any hand signals to ANY official= Yellow Card
Any Swear words to ANY official=Yellow Card

Personally i think only the Captain should be able to question the referee and anyone else who mutters 1 word in Anger to the ref should recieve automatic yellow
Any hand signals to ANY official= Yellow Card
Any Swear words to ANY official=Yellow Card


Nobody has the guts to do it; the argument trotted out is "it would spoil the game, because you'd have sides down to seven men each."

Well, you might, if the players really are that stupid ... but it wouldn't be the referee's fault. And it would only happen the first weekend; then they'd learn to shut the hell up and get on with playing football.

what about point deductions? dont know if it would work. definately the captain should be the only one to speak to the ref. its stupid when you even get the keeper running to the other end of the pitch to argue with the ref. definately should get a yellow if your not the captain and you argue with him. even if you do get loads of sending offs, it would only be the first weekend of it and they would learn you would think

The Guy (Masscherano) is an idiot,he had no need to get involved in the situation that lead to his red,The situation needs seriously looking at because its getting ridiculous
Personally i think only the Captain should be able to question the referee and anyone else who mutters 1 word in Anger to the ref should recieve automatic yellow
Any hand signals to ANY official= Yellow Card
Any Swear words to ANY official=Yellow Card

Using the 'captain only' method may not always be workable. It has always been the case in rugby union that that would happen, but most of the players are bunched, and the captain will generally be near the play. The play itself is also much more structured in definite phases, rather than how football flows.

To be sure, the captain may not question the referee in Union in any case, but is called by the referee to instill calm and proper play in his team. Should a player, captain or not, show dissent at a decision, then the referee is entitled to force the dissenting side to go back ten yards.

The problem with this in football is that the game isn't as territorial as rugby. Sometimes moving a free kick forward ten yards will actually aid the defending side and/or hinder the attacking side, depending on their tactics.

Dissent (arm waving/questioning a decision/surrounding the ref) is already potentially a red card offence, as is 'foul and abusive language', but as Graham Poll said (and it's spectacularly rare for me to agree with him) on Radio Five Live the other day, if a referee were to follow the letter of the law, all the headlines would be "Referee loses plot", rather than "Referee follows FIFA directive".

What the solution is, I don't know, apart from players actually bloody behaving themselves.

And yes, Mascherano was an eejit.

what about point deductions? dont know if it would work. definately the captain should be the only one to speak to the ref. its stupid when you even get the keeper running to the other end of the pitch to argue with the ref. definately should get a yellow if your not the captain and you argue with him. even if you do get loads of sending offs, it would only be the first weekend of it and they would learn you would think

What if the keeper's the captain?

I watched the rugby at the weekend. I heard the referee constantly talking to the players in an articulate way throuhout the game, never once did I see or hear any player questioning his decisions. Despite them trying to knock ten bells out of eachother. !!

As for point deductions, how many poor decisions have resulted in bookings (which can't be countered)? I mean that from both sides of the coin as well. Ashley Cole's challenge on Hutton was a straight red to me, but he only got a yellow. I remember Wayne Quinn getting a second yellow years ago in a Cup match v Notts County for kicking the ball against the hoarding to catch it to take our own throw in, instead of bending down to pick it up.

I don't know what should be done, but something should; I just don't think the "throw the book" approach is the right one.

I watched the rugby at the weekend. I heard the referee constantly talking to the players in an articulate way throuhout the game, never once did I see or hear any player questioning his decisions. Despite them trying to knock ten bells out of eachother. !!

Rugby is only a contact sport under the Laws if you have the ball, or are bound in a scrum, ruck or maul :thumbsup:

It's set in stone with rugby as well that the referee is God(TM). In all my playing days, I think I dissented four times, and was marched back ten for doing it, and the mauling and insults I got from my team mates was worse than owt.

And I had to get the first two rounds in. Each time.

What could be useful is for the referees in football, who are already 'miked up', to have their mikes broadcast over the PA, so that these thugs who seem to believe that bullying an official is the right and proper thing to do, are shown up to be the bullying chavs they are. Every word would be heard then by up to 75000 people at some matches, and could be reported.

I dont always agree with the ref!!! in fact alot of fans have opinions of refs!!!

BUT i do think a ref should go into both players dressing rooms and state the following -"Im the ref if for wot ever reason you dont agree with my decision Then ask your capt at the end of the match to come and see me,, I will not put with any abuse from players (ie liverpool/chelsea) it will be a instant yellow card if a player trys to"

This would let the players know where they stand!! in my opinion

What if the keeper's the captain?

If the keepers the Captain,then he can speak to the ref at half time like the managers do,not that it would make any difference,When was the last time you saw a referee back track on a decision during a game

If the keepers the Captain,then he can speak to the ref at half time like the managers do,not that it would make any difference,When was the last time you saw a referee back track on a decision during a game

But if the only player who can speak to the referee on the pitch is the captain, as in rugby, and if the ball is in the opponent's penalty area when an incident takes place, and the keeper's the captain, what happens then?

Rugby is only a contact sport under the Laws if you have the ball, or are bound in a scrum, ruck or maul :thumbsup:

It's set in stone with rugby as well that the referee is God(TM). In all my playing days, I think I dissented four times, and was marched back ten for doing it, and the mauling and insults I got from my team mates was worse than owt.

And I had to get the first two rounds in. Each time.

What could be useful is for the referees in football, who are already 'miked up', to have their mikes broadcast over the PA, so that these thugs who seem to believe that bullying an official is the right and proper thing to do, are shown up to be the bullying chavs they are. Every word would be heard then by up to 75000 people at some matches, and could be reported.

The clear miking up of the ref on televised rugby league matches is both informative for the viewer and also works wonderfully for keeping the players in check.

Quite how it became OK in the minds of the players and the tacit view of the FA for the refereeing staff on matches to be so abused I have no idea, but the solution has to start at the top too.

If the keepers the Captain,then he can speak to the ref at half time like the managers do,not that it would make any difference,When was the last time you saw a referee back track on a decision during a game

I think I've seen one or two decisions where the ref has changed his mind on the say so of the linesman, but other than that, you're right!

But if the only player who can speak to the referee on the pitch is the captain, as in rugby, and if the ball is in the opponent's penalty area when an incident takes place, and the keeper's the captain, what happens then?

Well then the keeper shouts to the refs assistant,who informs the ref

Well then the keeper shouts to the refs assistant,who informs the ref

So if there's a dispute 80 yards away, the keeper has make that trek to the ref, especially if there's argy bargy, because that won't be sorted out by radio.

Quick free kick, anyone?

Welcome to the Forum, by the way!

The clear miking up of the ref on televised rugby league matches is both informative for the viewer and also works wonderfully for keeping the players in check.

Indeed. Not that most rugby players needed to be kept in check, really, League or Union.

Quite how it became OK in the minds of the players and the tacit view of the FA for the refereeing staff on matches to be so abused I have no idea, but the solution has to start at the top too.

As soon as diving, and cheating in general became 'legitimate' tactics, I suppose. Twenty years ago, when in my early/mid teens, players "gave away" a penalty, which is how I see it. Now, and for the last decade at least, diving players are said to have "won" a penalty. Just those phrases say a lot to me.

Said it before, "Sin Bin". 10 mins off the field can change a game and if you want to be in whatever cup or league the next season then you learn fast.

Said it before, "Sin Bin". 10 mins off the field can change a game and if you want to be in whatever cup or league the next season then you learn fast.

Probably the simplest and most effective.

Said it before, "Sin Bin". 10 mins off the field can change a game and if you want to be in whatever cup or league the next season then you learn fast.

It would do a lot. The other thing that might've worked was the 10-yard rule, provided that any such infraction that moved the ball beyond the line of the penalty box, results in a penalty (even if the ball's out on the wing somewhere).

It would do a lot. The other thing that might've worked was the 10-yard rule, provided that any such infraction that moved the ball beyond the line of the penalty box, results in a penalty (even if the ball's out on the wing somewhere).

Well it was tried,wasn't it, but it hardly helped long-ball sides, or set pieces sides, and let's face it, it's up to them as to what tactics they use. As for the "18 yard foul line" idea, then what about a shove at the corner flag, followed by dissent?

Football isn't territorial, it's also not complex.

What we need is Boycott to be carrying a bat and threatening to take their bloody childish heads off.

Repeatedly.

As for the "18 yard foul line" idea, then what about a shove at the corner flag, followed by dissent?


If the punishment for said infraction was a penalty, how many players do you think would ever do it twice? (After getting lynched by their team-mates the first time...)

If the punishment for said infraction was a penalty, how many players do you think would ever do it twice? (After getting lynched by their team-mates the first time...)

But what would now be a bit of a tussle, miles away from the goal, could result in a penalty! You're effectively making the last 18 yards a penalty area. Would the keeper have the same handling opportunities?

All my natural inclinations say go for the video replays and give more of a role to to the **** who isn't good enough to run up and down getting offside wrong continually but and it is a big but they shouldn't as any rules brought into football has to apply to every level all the way down.

But what would now be a bit of a tussle, miles away from the goal, could result in a penalty!

Only if the defender is goddam stupid. In most sports, it wouldn't matter if the penalty for dissent was to be hung, drawn and quartered, because it does not happen. Players just aren't dumb enough to try and argue with the officials.

With so many americans becoming involved in football then there is no question that the video replay will be introduced to the premiership for penalty box issues and serious foul play. It will all add to the excitement of the game and no doubt stimulate even more media interest.

As a Chesterfiield supporter I still remember the goal ruled out by David Elleray in the semi final of the FA cup between Chesterfield and Middlesboro. It was only two metres of the line!!!! And you know what I don't even remember one chesterfield player complaining or chasing around the field like a madman.

As long as the flow of the game isn't disrupted for too long then I think it could be an interesting idea. Only for the premiership though!

I have read in the paper today that Mascapone still thinks he was completely innocent!

Another Argentinian act of god!

With so many americans becoming involved in football then there is no question that the video replay will be introduced to the premiership for penalty box issues and serious foul play. It will all add to the excitement of the game and no doubt stimulate even more media interest.

As a Chesterfiield supporter I still remember the goal ruled out by David Elleray in the semi final of the FA cup between Chesterfield and Middlesboro. It was only two metres of the line!!!! And you know what I don't even remember one chesterfield player complaining or chasing around the field like a madman.

As long as the flow of the game isn't disrupted for too long then I think it could be an interesting idea. Only for the premiership though!

I remember it very well as it got Bryan Robson a Wembley visit. It was such an outrageous decision, I don't think the Chesterfield players knew WHY it had been disallowed. Extremely costly!
Elleray, however, still out and about for his next match!

He wouldn't stand for these over paid prima donnas if he was still around these days. If I remember rightly he was a schoolmaster at ETon or Harrow.

So if there's a dispute 80 yards away, the keeper has make that trek to the ref, especially if there's argy bargy, because that won't be sorted out by radio.

Quick free kick, anyone?

Welcome to the Forum, by the way!

If there is "argy bargy" 80 yards from the keeper then i think the last thing on the refs mind will be an upset captain.
And anyway,how many goalies do you know who are capatin of their team?
Cant think of any off the top of mi head

Only if the defender is goddam stupid. In most sports, it wouldn't matter if the penalty for dissent was to be hung, drawn and quartered, because it does not happen. Players just aren't dumb enough to try and argue with the officials.

I wouldn't bet on it!

If there is "argy bargy" 80 yards from the keeper then i think the last thing on the refs mind will be an upset captain.
And anyway,how many goalies do you know who are capatin of their team?
Cant think of any off the top of mi head

Kahn,at Bayern Munich. Buffon at Juventus, ( when Del Piero is on bench ) and Shmichael when he was at Man Utd.

It's a bit like kids at school not respecting the teacher so parents get the blame. So I reckon the managers should sort the players out but then again who teaches the managers to respect the Ref?
It probably boils down to cash. Players on big wages think they can act clever.

If there is "argy bargy" 80 yards from the keeper then i think the last thing on the refs mind will be an upset captain.
And anyway,how many goalies do you know who are capatin of their team?
Cant think of any off the top of mi head

But if the captain is the only person who can speak to the referee, and he's 80 yards away, he's got to deal with an upset captain.

Quite a few keepers have been captains actually; Alan Kelly was United's captain for a time. I'm sure Pressman and Schmeichel were captains at times as well. Dino Zoff captained Italy to the World Cup. There'll have been loads of others as well. Not as many as midfielders though, granted ;)

To put a slightly more realistic slant on it, in the years from 1992-2000, United's preferred captain was either a centre-back or keeper for all but one of them*. What I'm getting at, is that if the captain is a defender/keeper, and if there is trouble during an attack, it's quite reasonable to say that he's likely to be in his own half, well away from the trouble.

*The exception was Mark Patterson, and for some the jury is still out as to whether he was a footballer, let alone a captain. Could have been worse though. Could have been Phil Starbuck.

But if the captain is the only person who can speak to the referee, and he's 80 yards away, he's got to deal with an upset captain.

Quite a few keepers have been captains actually; Alan Kelly was United's captain for a time. I'm sure Pressman and Schmeichel were captains at times as well. Dino Zoff captained Italy to the World Cup. There'll have been loads of others as well. Not as many as midfielders though, granted ;)

To put a slightly more realistic slant on it, in the years from 1992-2000, United's preferred captain was either a centre-back or keeper for all but one of them*. What I'm getting at, is that if the captain is a defender/keeper, and if there is trouble during an attack, it's quite reasonable to say that he's likely to be in his own half, well away from the trouble.

*The exception was Mark Patterson, and for some the jury is still out as to whether he was a footballer, let alone a captain. Could have been worse though. Could have been Phil Starbuck.

No mate
If there is Argy bargy and the keeper is 80 yards away,then by the time the Ref has sorted it out the Keeper will already have bolted upfield and be stood next to Ref
THEN the Ref has a word with Captain/Keeper and he has a word with his team

No mate
If there is Argy bargy and the keeper is 80 yards away,then by the time the Ref has sorted it out the Keeper will already have bolted upfield and be stood next to Ref
THEN the Ref has a word with Captain/Keeper and he has a word with his team

Point taken, but that would also slow the game down a hell of a lot. Quick free kicks would be a thing of the past for a start. One positive thing though, referees would have to clamp down on timewasting, which would hardly be a bad thing.

I don't think they will bring in video stuff in to football. There has been a trial recently that was successful but ruled out by FIFA.
The rules of football are the same from people playing in parks up to the premiership and beyond and any rule changes ( like the back pass rule for instance) have to be reflected at all levels of football. If they do bring in video replay evidence it will lead to two different games and I personally don't want that.
Where would the line be drawn about the use of video stuff? Premiership? the 4 main leagues? level 6 of the football pyramid.
It's not infallible either, there was an incident the other day in the current test against NZ where somebody was clearly run out, it was referred to the 3rd umpire who looked at all the replays and got the decision wrong. I've seen the same happen in both codes of Rugby.
I'm a Sheffield United fan and I know for certain the video evidence would have kept us up last season.

The referees IMO bring it upon them themselves. Take the wonderful Andy D'urso. He gives bizarre decisions time after time. Yes, respect the referee but the referee has to command respect.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/03/27/sfnhen127.xml

I normally agree with "Hendo" - can't disagree with much of what he writes here, but I remain critical of the officials who get far too many big decisions wrong. I read today that Riley has been 'dropped' to do a couple of Championship games but the PR spin says he hasn't?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/03/27/ufnrileyaxe.xml

On the passion issue - someone like Andy Gray seems to think that passion is a 21st Century term. Is he telling me that Dixie Dean and Tom Finney didn't play with passion? Neither did they or their generation see the need to jump into the crowd and remove a shirt!
A handshake sufficed then, could it not, now?

Andy Gray = part of the problem. Media tarts criticising refs in favour of their 'mates' who are still playing! What a walley - ruining the game that gives him his (overpriced) living.

Rob Styles? Respect? The two don't go together, his performances are far too sub-standard, risible in fact!

Respect the ref? Only if he earns it, says Blackwell. - The Star

Interesting piece in Saturdays Daily Telegraph interviewing Steve Coppell.

He is on record as saying that if footballers respected referees more, there would be a complete sea change in society and that al lot of anti social behaviour comes from watching so called "heros" in action.

He cites Rugby League as an example of good practice.

will look for the link & post

Respect the ref? Only if he earns it, says Blackwell. - The Star

That doesn't help for a start....

Brian clough had the right idea with the officials all his teams would just get on with the game sure the referees and linesmen drop some clangers but whats the point in players having a go thats the fans job.