Hi,

Just after some info.


I own a property and rent one of the rooms out to my brother who is the tenant.
Everything is legal ie tenancy agreement and rent book etc.

The only problem is that my brother has been made unemployed and is unable to pay his rent. He is currently on Job seekers Allowance.

The Housing benefit are refusing to pay his rent as he is a blood relative. Can they do this?????

Does anyone know the legalities re Relative and tenancies.


All help is much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know this won't help but - If you owned a shop, would they expect you to give him groceries for free, and reduce his income support accordingly?

I think not, somehow, but the rules are always conveniently stacked in their favour :mad:

At the same time as I was working to help with college, Mr Strix finished and signed on. He wasn't entitled to anything because I was over 16 hours. So I applied for my next year's grant based on us being a couple and would you believe it - I'm my father's dependant :suspect:

So, If Mr Strix is my dependant, and I'm my dad's dependant, that makes my dad financially responsible for somebody he's only met a handful of times :suspect: :rant:

Thanks Strix-

Like you said the rules are very much in favour of them.

If anything I am saving them money as the rent he is currently paying is far less than that he would be paying for a council flat/house. So they should be appreciative

Still looking for a way round their loopholes!!

Any more ideas

I'm sorry to say, but it would appear that this is not an arbitrary decision. The following statement appears in the FAQ section (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/benefits-information/guides-and-leaflets) of the council's webpages on benefit advice:

What happens if I live with a close relative and they charge me rent?
If you live with a close relative and they are also your Landlord you cannot claim Housing Benefit or Council Tax Benefit. A close relative is someone who is your parent, step-parent or parent-in-law; brother or sister; son, son-in-law, daughter, step-son, step-daughter, or partner of any of the previously mentioned people.

As sad as it may seem, he would probably better off, financially, by moving out as Council Tax Benefit is involved as well..

I'm sorry mate but it's the only way to combat housing benefit fraud.
With it being so difficult to determine the genuine cases from those just abusing the system, it's just one rule for all.

Firm yes, fair?... I personally think yes.

My advice would be to contact housing Aid (can be found in howden house - the councils "first point" thingy on union street - sorry don't know their phone number - they are independent of the council and really know their stuff) as quickly as possible. You only have one month to appeal the decision not to pay council tax and housing benefit and it is definitely worth appealing. My experience is that benefit is automatically refused in these circumstances but sometimes allowed on appeal. Often a higher level of proof of the rent being paid previously and both of your circumstances is needed but it is sometimes paid.

As hard as the system seems, it makes sense to me.

Ask yourself this....Would you kick your own relative out on the streets for non-payment of rent? If you answer yes, then I'm glad I'm no relation of yours!

Originally posted by neil26
Hi,

Just after some info.


I own a property and rent one of the rooms out to my brother who is the tenant.
Everything is legal ie tenancy agreement and rent book etc.

The only problem is that my brother has been made unemployed and is unable to pay his rent. He is currently on Job seekers Allowance.

The Housing benefit are refusing to pay his rent as he is a blood relative. Can they do this?????

Does anyone know the legalities re Relative and tenancies.


All help is much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I know you'll probably have heard this before,but get the phone number of your local citizens advice centre.These guys are brilliant.If it wan't for them i would have been up s**t creek without a paddle.It was a situation a bit different to yours,but at that time i was in a mess,and could't have sorted it out on my own.They took it up for me, and stayed with me until it was all sorted out (10 weeks in total ).I will allways be grateful to those people who helped me,i don't know what would have happened if it hadn't been for them.On another note,i don't see how it can make a difference because he's a blood relative.
Anyway,happy hunting,hope you get it sorted.

yeh the rules are ridiculous, I'm a student with a student loan, my boyfriend becomes unemployed - they take my student loan into account as income, say my boyfriend is dependent on me and give him £16 a week. I'm not entitled to job seekers allowance but they make us do a joint claim. Oh and for the student loan I'm dependent on my parents. Like Strix said, they make the rules as long as they suit them.

i actually work for the council, but its only taking council tax queries over the phone, and payments for parking fines and rent etc...but i dont actually know how you'd stand there...

L x

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HarrietStar
yeh the rules are ridiculous, I'm a student with a student loan, my boyfriend becomes unemployed - they take my student loan into account as income, say my boyfriend is dependent on me and give him £16 a week. I'm not entitled to job seekers allowance but they make us do a joint claim. Oh and for the student loan I'm dependent on my parents. Like Strix said, they make the rules as long as they suit them. [

I think theres something wrong here,i think you need to see someone at student services fo advice,if they can't help then you need to go to citizens advice as well.I'm pretty sure that they have got it wrong with you.
Student loans are meant to be used for educational things,not to live on.Check it out, youv'e got nothing to lose,if anything you might end up better off.

Thanks for all your help, it looks like the system does not benefit the people who really need it.

I think the rules are all in favour of the council and not the people.

What do we pay our taxes for!!!!!

In reply to my original posting I have 1month to appeal against their decision not to pay benefit.

Can a legal tenancy agreement override regulation 7 "A person who resides with the person to whom he is liable to make payments in respect of the dwelling and that person is a close relative or his or his partner"

Keep the replies coming in - they are very much appreciated.
All help is needed.

It's a bit, "rules are rules" I think, neil, unfortunately.

whether you have a legal tenancy agreement or no, the fact remains that your landlord is a close relative.

the thing is, the council have that rule, because it would mean all and sundry lodging with/ renting from a relative, would merely have to produce a "legal temnancy agreement" to circumvent the rules.

it is unfair, and it stinks, and I certainly do think that the council would be better served cracking down on landlords who are involved in scams, or the people who rent a place merely as a "giro -drop", rather than victimising someone who is above board.

PT

Housing benefit rules aren't made by the council - the rules are an Act of Parliament - mostly dating from the 1980's.

It is quite legal for you to let a property to a close relative - however he can't claim housing benefit to pay the rent.

Lots of info about Housing Benefit at www.hbinfo.org - although a lot is fairly technical for HB "specialists".

Also try www.welfarerights.net .

Can a legal tenancy agreement override regulation 7 "A person who resides with the person to whom he is liable to make payments in respect of the dwelling and that person is a close relative or his or his partner"

So, what did Housing Aid or the C.A.B say?

I'm not sure how they do it but i know that Housing aid have helped people get round these rules. They can only do this if you actually give them the oportunity to i.e your brother going to see them and giving them time within the appeals window!

i can't urge you enough to get some professional advice and assisance.

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
So, what did Housing Aid or the C.A.B say?

I'm not sure how they do it but i know that Housing aid have helped people get round these rules. They can only do this if you actually give them the oportunity to i.e your brother going to see them and giving them time within the appeals window!

i can't urge you enough to get some professional advice and assisance.

CAB won't be able to change anything because there is no discretion.

If it is just the two of them in the property then he can still apply for Second Adult Rebate, which provides a 25% discount.

People might think it's unfair but 99% of these cases are "contrived tenancies". Remember, money don't grow on trees! The more we pay out the more taxes they charge us!

If the rule wasn't there, I'm sure lots of families would start "charging" their kids £80 per week rent as soon as they reach 16 or 18, and getting it paid from housing benefit. Mind you, it would be an nice easy income if you had 2 or 3 kids!