Did anybody watch Crufts last night?

The beagle won the hound group :D

Well done Jill :clap:




Did anybody actually go?

I was rooting for the Deer Hound, but the Beagle was a good choice.

Can't wait to see the Utility Group tonight, always my favourite.

Wanted to watch the football but went to a Terry Pratchett play at the University.

Hmmm, the things i get myself roped into.

Tell us more here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31341&highlight=theatre) , Venger?

Did anybody tape it?

Nope...it always seems to creep up on me each year!

I thought the Norwich was the right choice for the Terrier Group, even though I love Staffys.

Shame they replaced Phillipa Forrester.

I liked Phillipa too, but I'm glad I didn't see that woman with the hair and paw print fleece this year :P

I like Claire on it. She talks to the dogs like they're people :D
A true 'dog person' :thumbsup: (Unlike Ms Pawprints - who treats them like accessories :mad: )

The presenters' reaction to Jill and Ryan's Gold was a bit odd though. Did anybody else think so? Was it just because they'd all been raving about Salukis?

Bayard Beagles Website (http://www.bayard0.demon.co.uk/index1.htm) with Ryan's Gold at the top of the gallery index :thumbsup:

I thought that the choice of presenters was refreshing in that neither seemed to be very up on the whle subject! The jokes that the guy was cracking were a welcome change and lightened the show up for me.

I think the reaction from the presenters was quite understandable as the sight hounds tend to (pardon the pun) catch the eye more than the scent hounds to someone new to the experience of a big time show like Crufts. The scent hounds hide their charms far better.

Originally posted by Carmine
The scent hounds hide their charms far better.
Yeah, I noticed the beagle had a different agenda to being interviewed :suspect:
A bit 'I've done my bit, I'm not supposed to sit on tables - and there's something to sniff over there, so I'll just go and have a look while you guys are talking... ' :D 110% beagle :rolleyes:

I could have sworn Jill called him 'Harry' though :confused:

Julie and I were really hoping the English Bull Terrier would get through, but they never do. I thought the Staffordshire Bull Terrier was the best specimen- no exaggerations, perfect frog-like head, pump handle tail and great, great movement.

It is so sad to hear that the Welsh, Manchester, Lakeland, and Kerry Blue terriers are all 'endangered'. They are all great, vintage dogs and deserve to be more popular.

One thing struck me. All the dogs shown have to be recognised by the Kennel Club. How ironic that two of Britain's most popular breeds; the Lurcher and the Jack Russell Terrier [the latter being the small, hunt terrier not to be confused with the longer-legged, 'show' Parson Russell Terrier] are not recognised and thus absent. Also absent are other great dogs which breed true to type; the Victorian Bulldog [an improvement on the unathletic, wheezing, hobbling KC- recognised Bulldog], the American Staffordshire Terrier ['show' version of APBT], The Plummer Terrier, The Fell Terrier, The Patterdale Terrier [smooth-coated, black version of the Fell] etc. Hopefully, one day the Kennel Club and Crufts will widen their scope. They are ignoring some cracking dogs...

Originally posted by timo
Julie and I were really hoping the English Bull Terrier would get through, but they never do.

Yay - another EBT lover?

We don't bother watching any more. Those Crufts types are breedist toward EBT's ! :cry:

Well it was the norfolk terrier that won.... Little coco did look sweet on the night.

I was hoping the beagle or the english setter won. (although I think the welsh spring spaniel should have been in the final cos he was cute!)

Anyways, - what do the rest of you think.... coco a worthy winner??

co-co a worthy winner , no way i,m biased ,i wanted the english setter to win boo hoo, as for ebt , yes why don't they ever seem to progress to the next round.
is it me or are the crufts type all stuck up with their noses in the air :P

Originally posted by LoopyLou
Anyways, - what do the rest of you think.... coco a worthy winner??
Our money was on the schnauzer (?).

Coco was an excellent choice.

I'm still confused about Jill baiting Harry. She told me off for doing it with Brude :confused: Harry looked spooked in the big ring, and this was his first champ certificate - but he's 3 yrs old :confused: I'm wondering how long she's had him, as she isn't his breeder :(

Must admit I love English Bull Terriers, we had them when I was a kid and they were great dogs. We stopped having them because their temprement went to pot, are they any better now.

We currently have a Glen of Imall Terrier and she is fantastic with the kids.

Ginner and Sanman,
Glad you both love English Bull Terriers. We're on to our second one- Tallie, a really tall heavyweight, brindle/white bitch bred by Chuck Wannop [Charishalee]. She is a superb dog, and I'm thinking of showing her at Northern Provincial Bull Terrier Club shows. Our first bitch, Betsie [white, with black brindle ears] died last May of kidney problems. She was half the size of the huge Tallie [short for Tallulah; blame my wife for the name!].

Re temperament; most breeders like to emphasise the improvement in temperament in view of the Dangerous Dogs Act, and the appalling persecution of bull breeds in general, on the continent, and particularly in Germany. The consensus appears to be that the breed as a whole has certainly improved since the 60s. However, the 'love of battle' will always lurk under the surface, and it is wise to keep EBT's out of trouble. Our first dog was, in truth, an absolutely ferocious guard and highly untrustworthy around other dogs. Tallie, our 'new' dog is so far 'laid back' and relaxed. I tend to think the breed are generally dog-aggressive still, and I will keep an eye on Tallie. We have to remember that, although they are now 'show dogs' bred for show points, they still retain the fighting instincts of their forebears to an extent. Don't believe any rubbish about the 'show' Stafford [not the 'Irish', sporting strains] being more aggressive. It depends on the individual dog, and certain lines [which I won't reveal] are seen as still retaining 'gameness' to an extent. Don't forget that a famous line of fighting dogs, the 'Stormer' line, descends from a 1980s cross between an EBT and an American Pitbull...

Hi Timo

Glad to see your enjoying owning a bullie. To be honest when we owned bull terriers in the 70's & 80's they were never entirely trustworthy with other dogs. We could put up with this but it got to a stage when the breed couldn't be trusted with people especially children, this is when we stopped having them. Can the breed be trusted with kids now, I know that it will be dependant on the dog so I'm talking about the breed in general.

Sanman,
The breed books are full of how trustworthy EBT's are with children, and breeders tend to fall over backwards in an attempt to convince prospective owners of the breed's 'humorous', 'lazy' side. A couple of years ago, I fired a broadside at a well known breeder in the breed column of Dog World for describing the dogs as if they are buffoons and 'coach potoatoes'. They are still one of the toughest breeds on earth, and a 'rogue' EBT would be an extremely dangerous animal indeed. Fortunately, these days few 'incidents' appear to occur. I do know people, however, whose dogs have attacked and [in one case killed] seriously hurt dogs like German Shepherds, Rottweilers etc.

I would not trust EBTs with children. Some breeders would be up in arms at this statement. For me, they play much 'too hard', and could easily accidentally hurt a child. Secondly, breeders are dishonest in my view if they fail to acknowledge the high prey drive under the surface. I have seen them 'blank off' in such situations, and I have heard the same from too many other Bullie owners to think this is coincidence. Vets too, seem to consider them more prone to tantrums than the Staffordshires. I am being honest here. EBTs are the least trouble of any breed, being generally quiet and inactive in the house, in the right hands. In the wrong hands, and in unsuitable circumstances they could be problematic. Hence the great numbers that end up in rescue centres, often bought on a whim as that 'piggy-eyed dog we saw on the telly' etc...

I'm still waiting for a Weimeraner to win.......greatest dogs in the world :clap:

I luv Staffies. Does anyone know if a Staffie has even won anything at Crufts? I know they were not recognised as a breed until fairly late and there is still seems to be a lot of snobbery against them. I read a stupid article recently by a snooty woman on the Daily Telegraph, to the effect that Staffies were unstable, nasty and vicious (apparently one had scared her own inbred little bundle of fluff in a London park). How wrong she is. I almost wrote a letter of refutation in reply, but remembered that you have to be a retired Colonel and live in Bournemouth to get a letter published in the DT.

Lord Chalverley,
As yet, no Stafford has won Crufts. However, in 1972 [I think], Violet Drummond-Dick's Abraxas Audacity, an English Bull Terrier, swept the board.

Re Staffords, I agree with you regarding their trustworthiness around people. I have owned a black and white dog of the breed in the 80s, and they can be tremendously affectionate, and great fun. The major difference between them and EBTs , in my view [for what it is worth] lies in the contrasting behaviour around the home. Both breeds are very affectionate; in the case of the Staff, both sexes equally so; in the case of the EBT, bitches tend to be more affectionate than the sometimes slightly aloof dogs. Both have great guarding capacities. However, I prefer the EBT, because of its legendary ability to relax around the home, to the point of resembling a stuffed animal. In common parlance, they can really "chill out". Staffords seem to be 'on the go' all day long. That is fine sometimes, but I like the peace and quiet EBTs bring to home life.

Have you ever thought of rescuing a Stafford or EBT? Both breeds are in dire need of help in this direction. Believe me, they won't mind if you are not a "retired Colonel", or that you don't live in Bournemouth....!

Sanman & timo,

Millie (white with black eye) is my first, and my g/f's 2nd, Bullie.

She's definately chilled out round the house, a trait I also welcome.

Around other dogs she's as daft as a brush. She falls to the floor and rolls over! I worry what would happen if another dog had a go at her. I don't want to see a full blown fight, and would do what I could to avoid it, but she's so 'submissive' I only hope she would look after herself if it came to it.

Having said that, I mostly avoid other owners and their dogs because I lost patience with the outwardly fearful/defensive attitude that many owners presented. My dog is on a strong leash and is always under control (unless by this point she's flopped to the floor and rolled over :blush: ). But that hardly constitutes threatening behaviour, so why do they look like they're walking past the devil incarnate?? :confused:

Ahh. That'd be because my dog's behaviour is obviously causing your little hairy mop of a dog to hysterically snarl, snap and strain on the end of your lead - thus causing your sense of unease. Sorry. Our fault. We'll be off then. :rant:

I digress. Rant over.

Originally posted by Timo
For me, they play much 'too hard', and could easily accidentally hurt a child.
Agreed. I play with Millie in a controlled manner (eg I was told not to get involved in tug-of-wars with EBT's - they never want to let go of things do they?) but there's been a number of occasions where there's been an accidental nip. Accidents happen, but a nip from an EBT is way different to a nip from most other breeds. I remember being told that Bullie's jaws don't lock when they bite (a common alarmist misconception). They're just so powerful that it appears as if they can't be opened.

Originally posted by Timo
I have seen them 'blank off' in such situations,
timo - what does that mean? Not heard that saying before.

My girlfried has talked about getting a 2nd Bullie, but I've read that they're not the easiest breed with which to introduce a pup to a mature (5 yrs old) adult. Is this right?

Ginner,
Sorry to take so long to reply to your charming email re the lovely-sounding Millie; work got in the way. Your EBT bitch sounds adorable! I would not underestimate her ability to defend herself. As my friend Bernard Lammas [he is the present bearer of the breed's original prefix- 'Brum'] always says, in a rich Birmingham accent, "Son, believe me, Bull Terriers know their capabilities". They appear to. Our first dog, Betsie would occasionally behave in a coy/cute fashion around other dogs, and usually at season time. However, she defended herself against a larger EBT bitch on Ainsdale Beach [near Southport] in a terrifying manner. I managed to pull her off the other dog, which she was dragging under water. I got bitten in the process. Fortunately, the other owner was a friend, and the bite marks in the neck were not too severe...

Re other owners overreacting. Just ignore it. The way some react to my dog in Southport [I

sorry- continued- , you would think that I was walking a Nile Crocodile! The best thing to do is to ignore any stupid comments etc. We are ambassadors for the breed, and let's face it, if a dogfight starts it is our dogs who will take the blame. In view of the Dangerous Dogs Act and the draconian action against Bull Breeds on the continent, we have to keep our dogs well out of trouble. Best regards.