at last brendan flynne and julie tankard notorious pushers of filth have been locked up 4 years 9 months each god knows how many kids lives have been ruined by these two and not to mention the trouble and grief it must have caused there familys

One of my sons got into heroin and his life is a mess now.
Our family went through a terrible time because of his stealing from us.
He's in prison now after we made a complaint. Turning your son over to the police is a very difficult thing to do.
I was able support him three times to get off drugs but each time he went back on. We couldn't go on like that any more.
It has got to the stage where I don't ever want to see him again.
It's a real shame, was is a lovely lad and inteligent.

I don't know of the two you mentioned and I don't hate drug sellers. They don't ruin other peoples lives; they just provide a means for them to ruin it themselves. At first I though my sons problem was caused by the sellers. My experience is that those who sell drugs are addicts themselves and end up loosing everything just like their customers do.
Drug treatment is hard to come by and is no easy solution. The limiting factor is the motivation of the addict to get free and stay off. Like I said, my son came off three times and went back every time.
If anyone is having doubts about a close friend or family member please PM me and I can tell you the heroin signs to look out for.

My little (25 yr old) brother has been on and off drugs more times than I can remember, I've now got to the point where I don't care what he does to his body anymore, he knows what he's doing every time he steals/sells stuff to get more drugs, and he knows what it does to my parents. They have given him chance after chance and are also at breaking point and have completely run out of patience. I worry about them!
He has been in prison at the age of 17 (mum has shopped him more than once - tho not on the occasion he got sent down) and had such a huge overdose at 20 that it technically killed him, he's only here now because of the quick actions of paramedics.

mrchinnery, I know exactly how you feel, I never want to see him again and I wish he'd stop calling my parents or turning up on their doorstep every time he gets himself into trouble.

I agree its not right to blame the dealers alone, they are just supplying what is demanded by people who know exactly what they are doing when they buy it.

Em

i hate smack n crack and all that,and i do think its the dealers fault for ever even thinking about selling that ****,but not all drugs are bad IMO,the majority of people who sell weed are people just trying to make that little bit extra cash,and have fun like everyone else

but i do feel sorry for all those people who's lives have been frigged up or people who have had to deal with people

Originally posted by THCAyle
i hate smack n crack and all that,and i do think its the dealers fault for ever even thinking about selling that ****,but not all drugs are bad IMO,the majority of people who sell weed are people just trying to make that little bit extra cash,and have fun like everyone else

but i do feel sorry for all those people who's lives have been frigged up or people who have had to deal with people



******** if you sell any drug be it cannibas crack whatever your still a scum bag

4 yrs 9 months is not enough for these rubbish,all drug dealers should go for a minimum of 10 yrs ,look at other countrys they do not mess about like our country,they stick them in jail for 25 yrs.They kill & destroy lives & get a few years it's a disgrace.Personally I would hang them for the deaths of all the lives they have took from family's.Tony Blair & Bush said they were going to bomb the fields which supply these evil drugs,what has he & bush done nothing as usual,all the talk after the murderous disaster in New York that they would target the country's supplying drugs to our country's, to stop them making millions to supply there terrorists with weapons.I cannot understand why at the time they were going to do it & nothing has happened,just a load of lies from a pair of idiots.

Originally posted by panda79
******** if you sell any drug be it cannibas crack whatever your still a scum bag


why, exactly?

and don't use the "slippery slope" argument that people are so happy to use without any evidence.


Cannabis and ecstasy are relatively harmless, "soft" drugs.

Anything else, you're in deep water.
Luckily the drug dealing population is kept low by themselves, as they tend to be very territorial.

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
why, exactly?

and don't use the "slippery slope" argument that people are so happy to use without any evidence.


Cannabis and ecstasy are relatively harmless, "soft" drugs.

Anything else, you're in deep water.
Luckily the drug dealing population is kept low by themselves, as they tend to be very territorial.


because its illegal thats why and nothing you can say will change my mind

not a a dealer are you lol

heh. oh yeah...I'll sell you anything...the works...
(dont arrest me mr. officer)


have you never broken a law in your life?

I could go into a long and drawn out explaination, but if your mind will not be changed your mind will not be changed.

Originally posted by panda79
because its illegal thats why and nothing you can say will change my mind

i think judging a substances' danger, based on it's legality is a very simplistic and mis-guided way of looking at this.

all chemical compounds / substances that you allow in to your body / system by whatever means will affect you in one way or another, so at what point does a substance become a 'drug'?

i would also argue that it's imposible NOT to change your mind, the very nature of mind is change.

i believe that all drugs should be legalised, taking it out of the black market and put under some kind of regulatory control.

prior to the criminalisation of such substances england was considered not to have/very low problem with drugs, this was until we were under pressure from america to tighten up and criminalise drugs. heroin addicts were known to their doctors who were able to provide them with a persciption and the patient was able to function perfectly well in society whilst upkeeping the job that they did.

following the legislation, it has forced the situation into the blackmarket where criminals have realised the money that can be made and have turned it into a highly lucrative illegal industry.

we now have absolutely no idea how wide spread the problem is. it does not appear that anyone in power has any idea of how to solve the problem either. the issue of illegal drugs is a great political tool that they are guarunteed to recieve media hype at its very mention.

it is clear that the legislation that we have is not working, and some politicians seem to think that by making it more punitive it will reduce the problem, it is unlikely that this will do anything more than increase the prison population.

i believe that legalising drugs will bring with it many benefits to society at large-

it will have the effect of taking the power out of the hands of the barons/dealers.

a legitimate industry can be built, where tax will be paid just as with alchol or cigarettes. (if everyone in the country stopped smoking the uk would be in trouble)

new jobs will be created

substances will have to comply with certain standards, people will be able to know exactly what they are taking thereby reducing the risk to the consumer.

There are many issues that i could go into, before i post this would like to point you to an interseting and informative website that i think that the sceptical among you should check out - www.tdpf.org.uk

Originally posted by panda79
******** if you sell any drug be it cannibas crack whatever your still a scum bag

I do hope that this thread is not going to be reduced to comments like the above, i would hat to see it closed down.

I know no-one will agree with this, but I think all drugs should be legal
If drugs were legal, the money made from taxes on them would go to good causes rather than keeping dealers in BMWs and guns. Also the drugs would be clean, meaning people wouldn't die from them as often.
I don't take drugs and if they were legal, I wouldn't start. If people want to be stupid and hurt THEMSELVES, not others, they should be allowed to and not be treated like criminals.

it will never happen.

what it comes down to is our countries history


alcohol is more dangerous than a fair few other drugs, but it is built deeply into our history/culture


as with smoking

look at the statistics on deaths from smoking. and how hugely addictive it is. but again its built into our culture

and the government make a nice little mint from both

I'm pretty sure if either substances (alcohol or nicotine) were discovered now they'd be criminalised and at class A

I mean look...alcohol quickly distorts vision, attention, focus, can induce loss of consciousness very quickly, causes aggresive and anti-social behaviour and destroys the liver.

but like I said it will never happen

I'm not even going to begin talking about "pharmaceutical" drugs...
anti depressants, mood stabilisers, tranqs, etc.
all pretty dangerous and with large lists of not very written up side effects.

ah - in the time it took me to write my piece, two other epople had written to say they agree with me. I'm pleased there are some sane people in Sheffield.
I agree it'll never happen, as long as Governments play to the hang em and flog em mentality of the majority.

The two dealers in question are low life scumbags.They've been at it for years,this is the first time they've both received a good stretch though.I don't live on Lowedges myself,but i do live in that area,and these two are well known.They don't care who they sell to,it could be a 15yr old kid,so long as they made enough money to keep them And be able toot their own herion for free,thats all they cared about.
They didn't give a damn about anything except themselves.

I agree, legalising all drugs would be a much more sensible way of doing things.

Just look at what happened in America during prohibition - it was a huge opportunity for criminal gangs to organise around control of drinking rackets; legalising alcohol denied them that chance. If the government legalised drugs, their sale could be state-controlled (and taxed) rather than in the hand of gangsta scumbags.

Speaking of legal/illegal drugs, what is with the current drive to criminalise (fresh) magic mushrooms? I really can't see the point.

see here for information on magic mushroom situation

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Policy_General_Mushrooms.htm

I also think we should take out the black market by legalising things or perhaps making alcohol illegal to at least make an even playing field for both vices.

Have stumbled across some quite high up dealers in my time but even these guys seem to keep blowing their money on gold chains, 'tins' and cars and live in crappy houses. add to this the constant threat of going inside and getting shot i can't see the attraction but i think some people love the adrenalin of it all as much as the drug of choice.

nice arguement there panda,well thought out,like usual you idiot.

i agree aswell,legalise it

Originally posted by meer
I know no-one will agree with this, but I think all drugs should be legal
If drugs were legal, the money made from taxes on them would go to good causes rather than keeping dealers in BMWs and guns. Also the drugs would be clean, meaning people wouldn't die from them as often.
I don't take drugs and if they were legal, I wouldn't start. If people want to be stupid and hurt THEMSELVES, not others, they should be allowed to and not be treated like criminals.

I agree totally. don't knwo if any one has read the ben elton book on it "High society". A lot of the problems with drugs stem from the fact that they are illegal, If it was out in main stream then probably no more people would use, the drugs would be cleaner and easier to police!

On the programme about the legalisation of drugs that was on BBC2 a bit ago they said (I may not have remebered this entirely accurately) that if drugs were legalised and taxed, the amount of money that the government would make through the taxation would cover the entire cost of existing prescription medicines on the NHS.

this thread wasent about legalising drugs in any way what it was about was drug dealers and the damage that those two people have caused,and by the way all of you that think ALL drugs should be legal want your heads seeing to, i dont think anyone of you will have had a very close member of your family on drugs try and think what it would be like to have your brother/sister on heroin/crack i just cant belive some people are so stupid as to say legalise all drugs

I agree with legalising them, you legalise it = you control it and you can get rid of the **** thats in these drugs i.e- brick dust in pills - my friend did his whole dissertation on this subject and he got a first!!

This current directive to make fresh mushrooms illegal is absolutly stupid tho i must say!!!

Whether you are for or against the legalisation of any drugs, you cannot dispute the fact that cigarettes and alcohol are responsible for more deaths, crime and drain more taxpayers money than problems arising from drugs.

Legalise all of them, and it can be taxed and get all the **** out of A's.

Originally posted by THCAyle
nice arguement there panda,well thought out,like usual you idiot.

i agree aswell,legalise it

hey i wonderd when you would appear on the scene graffiti and drug taking your mother must be so proud of you

legalising hard drugs if you think thats a solution to the drugs problem then i am sorry but you are a bit thick in that gap between your ears what next from these type of fools i know lets legalise guns................just popping down to the spar getting some .357 slugs for my magnum

Originally posted by tattoo
legalising hard drugs if you think thats a solution to the drugs problem then i am sorry but you are a bit thick in that gap between your ears what next from these type of fools i know lets legalise guns................just popping down to the spar getting some .357 slugs for my magnum

Don't mean to be offensive but guns ARE legal with the right paperwork.

so are drugs to doctors/hospitals you know what i meant,i mean how can legalising be the answer surley it would increase the problem many times

The fact that drugs are illegal obviously doesn't prevent the crime associated with it. If anything, the illegality feeds the crime and causes more problems.

Tattoo, when people suggest legalising drugs, I don't think they mean, let everyone go get messed up on crack. They are just looking at the deeper social problems of the current situation. There are more effective ways of controlling drug use and the crime caused by it than simply illegalising everything.

Also, let's not group all drugs together in one bracket. There is a whole world of difference between every variety of drug.

Originally posted by tattoo
legalising hard drugs if you think thats a solution to the drugs problem then i am sorry but you are a bit thick in that gap between your ears

Why should anyone be told what they can or cannot put inside THEIR body?

I'm not endorsing drug use. On the contrary, some of them are bloody dangerous. Heroin still doesn't cause anything like the number of problems alcohol does though.

But amphetamine/mdma based drugs used in moderation, what's the problem?

People will use them anyway, legal or not. Just look around the city centre on a friday or saturday in most clubs and you'll see what I mean. Think of all that potential revenue from tax....

Originally posted by tattoo
this thread wasent about legalising drugs in any way what it was about was drug dealers and the damage that those two people have caused,and by the way all of you that think ALL drugs should be legal want your heads seeing to, i dont think anyone of you will have had a very close member of your family on drugs try and think what it would be like to have your brother/sister on heroin/crack i just cant belive some people are so stupid as to say legalise all drugs

This thread was about getting rid of drug dealers, and if you legalised drugs there would be no more drug dealers left, just as by legalising alcohol America took the trade largely out of the hands of gangsters and into legal bars.

Of course it's not a perfect solution, and people would still get themselves screwed up on hard drugs, but it would place much greater control over quality (which causes most deaths with drugs such as heroin) and place more sensible limits on distribution, and most important of all it would get rid of the environment in which drug dealers flourish.

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
why, exactly?

and don't use the "slippery slope" argument that people are so happy to use without any evidence.


Cannabis and ecstasy are relatively harmless, "soft" drugs.

Anything else, you're in deep water.
Luckily the drug dealing population is kept low by themselves, as they tend to be very territorial.
Here we go Cannabis & Ecstacy are harmless try telling that to the family's who have lost there kids to these evil drugs.

Originally posted by tattoo
this thread wasent about legalising drugs in any way what it was about was drug dealers and the damage that those two people have caused,and by the way all of you that think ALL drugs should be legal want your heads seeing to, i dont think anyone of you will have had a very close member of your family on drugs try and think what it would be like to have your brother/sister on heroin/crack i just cant belive some people are so stupid as to say legalise all drugs
Totally agree Tattoo well said.

an example of parents loosing their children to these evil drugs who are in support of a reform of legislation

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,780580,00.html

and i'll post this link again... www.tdpf.org.uk

Has there ever, ever been a fatality as a result of using cannabis?

There has been a few ecstacy related deaths, but it is not the drug itself that kills.

Originally posted by onedizzybird
an example of parents loosing their children to these evil drugs who are in support of a reform of legislation

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,780580,00.html

and i'll post this link again... www.tdpf.org.uk

Good article.

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Has there ever, ever been a fatality as a result of using cannabis?

There has been a few ecstacy related deaths, but it is not the drug itself that kills.
There have been a few deaths come on,more than a few & remember that Cannibis causes mental problems & people who have suffered paranoa through this so called safe drug,sorry plant.Have hanged themselves & jumped off cliffs,flyovers.

we have got a few clubbers/ravers on the forum who persist in saying that , whizz,charlie,ecstacy are all ok because of the morons that take it just so they can say they have had it when out clubbing i would love to hear one of the legalise drugs parents when there son/daughter did a leah betts yes drugs are great i had 2 mates who only ever were going to smoke draw ,ps both dead heroin over doses say no more

yep and people who have drunk alchol have become desperate alcholics and people who smoke have died of cancer.

it is all about making an informed choice.

people can never be able to make a fully informed choice about what they put into their bodies whilst such things are illegal

legislation will bring with it regulation. under the regulation the government can set standards for the substances to meet, this will enable the consumer to know exactly what he/she is consuming.

the substances could come with warnings about all the health risks, it could also state clearly whether any long term effects are known or unknown.

in addition to the drugs carrying the relevant health warnings, they could also be sold with information about minimizeing the risks whilst on the drug.

it could also inform people of the likely effects of the substance and the duration and it could provide information about not driving or operating machinary.

hmm... i appricate opposeing opinions however, i truely believe just as the headline from the obsever article states-

'Legalising drugs will save lives'

do you think putting a health warning on certain drugs will work half the idiots that take them cant read i think we would be heading in the wrong direction if that ever happend, i have had a family member who got into drugs for about 5 yrs i have been through much more than i care to mention unless you experiance a close/family member or evan a close freind then all you out there that think its ok to legalise dont know what you are talking about ,i would like to bet that not one of you that wants drugs legalised have had a family member involved with heavy drugs addiction

Originally posted by tattoo
i would like to bet that not one of you that wants drugs legalised have had a family member involved with heavy drugs addiction

Wrong.

Originally posted by DanSumption
Wrong.

my apologies dan

and wrong again, you assume too much tatoo. drugs have destroyed many peoples lives i do not deny that although i do stand by my opinion.

how can we solve or deal with a problem when we do not even know the extent of which it exists and if people are going to do it anyway regardless of whether they be legal or not, surely it would be better that these people make fully informed choices and that they know the source/content of there substances.

if i ever had children and found out that they were doing drugs, given that i probably would not be able to force them to stop i would much prefer it if they were to do them responsibly, for them to know exactly what they were taking and to be educated in the potential consequences.

Originally posted by onedizzybird
if i ever had children and found out that they were doing drugs, given that i probably would not be able to force them to stop i would much prefer it if they were to do them responsibly, for them to know exactly what they were taking and to be educated in the potential consequences.

And for the drugs to be sold only from a registered outlet where presumably, being children, they wouldn't be allowed to buy them.

i have i brother that has a drug addiction and i to think thay should be legalised then thay wont be young kids starting it i once asked my bro what made him start taking this drug and why he took it and he told me it was when he was 13 he first tryed it cos this man gave him it he did not have to pay for it so he took it he said this happend a few times the man was giveing it away so my bro took it littel did he know that the man was giving it away cos he new that my bro would get addictad and go back to him for more and have to pay for it yes i know he should not have took it but at 13 years old and in this little gang of lads he wanted to look hard and now he is 23 and in jail and yes he is clean now but when he comes out he will be back on it and thats cos its there on every street corner so if it was legalised then it wont be given away to kids on street coners and it wont start them like it did my bro he was a lovaly lad and now he has nothing

Originally posted by tattoo
do you think putting a health warning on certain drugs will work half the idiots that take them cant read i think we would be heading in the wrong direction if that ever happend, i have had a family member who got into drugs for about 5 yrs i have been through much more than i care to mention unless you experiance a close/family member or evan a close freind then all you out there that think its ok to legalise dont know what you are talking about ,i would like to bet that not one of you that wants drugs legalised have had a family member involved with heavy drugs addiction

Right, the fact is: people will take drugs whether illegal or legal. As far as hard drugs go; you said yourself earlier that you don't blame the dealer. Rightly so. If someone wants to get messed up on any drug, then they will find a way. Law is irrelevant.

Please stop thinking that drugs are all the same. Yes some people get messed on cannabis, e, or speed, but generally these are not major problems compared to the amount of people that take them and live perfectly normal lives.

I have lost one family member and one good friend to alcohol related deaths. I still drink and I'm not about to start calling for alcohol to Be banned. People make their own choices.

To say that all people that take drugs are idiots just shows a lack of knowledge in the area. It's very easy to blame the drugs, but at the end of the day, it is the user that, makes the choice. If someone is self destructive then they will find a way to destroy themselves. This doesn't mean that everyone who drinks, smokes dope, takes e etc... are going to destroy themselves. To think it is that simple is just ridiculous.

The fact is that drugs will not be legalised, however, just baning them doesn't make the problem go away. If anything it just feeds more crime.

I've been reading this thread for a while and have so far not replied as i was interested in how peoples arguments would play out. I can see both sides points and at times find myself torn between opposing arguments. I'll try to summerise my thoughts.....

I don't think drugs should be legalised. Several reasons: first is availability for kids. When i was at school i started smoking cigs, even though you have to be 16 to buy them, it was easy enough to either look 16, know someone who did, or know a shop that didn't care. I knew a few people who smoked weed at school and loads who smoked cigs. If packs of pre-rolled spliffs, or even just bags of weed, were available, i think more school aged kids would have access to them, more would smoke them, and this would not be good for general education.

I think the legality as well as health/safety is a deterrant to a lot of people. I know it's a vague link, but look at the arguments people have for speeding. "It's wrong to drive down that road at any more than 30mph, because thats the law". My guess is that if the law said it was ok to drive at 40mph then more people would increase their speed. So decisions aren't just based on what's safe, or what's good for you, but also, what's legal.

Now about taxes and crime and safety etc. Moving onto harder drugs, heroin etc, if it were legal, taxed, tested etc. My guess is the price would rise. Addicts may not be breaking the law buying it, current dealers may be out of a job, but drug related crime such as burgalaries would still be an issue. And imagine the security needed at a place that legally sold heroin, i would imagine it might look quite attractive to an addict with not enough cash, or a previous dealer out of a job wanted to sell without the taxes etc...

But alcohol.... i can see why if discovered now it would be banned etc, which is where i'm torn.... don't know where to go on this one because i like it, use it regularly and function fine in normal society, which could be said for other drugs users too... My business is based on our love of alcohol, i even named it after the banning of the sale of it, but can also see the damage it can do. Tough one.

Well done if you carried on reading all the way to here, just a few thoughts of mine.

-PK-

been an interesting thread so far,some good views,i can see both sides,but am still for legalising it on the whole,as their will still be problems,i dont think there would be as many.But keeping them illegal also has some retaining factors

ps so what if i take drugs and do graffiti panda,its what i beleive in/like to do so ill do it

Originally posted by THCAyle
been an interesting thread so far,some good views,i can see both sides,but am still for legalising it on the whole,as their will still be problems,i dont think there would be as many.But keeping them illegal also has some retaining factors

ps so what if i take drugs and do graffiti panda,its what i beleive in/like to do so ill do it

ok then so dont you care how your acts affect others not having a go just intrested thats all

to be honest taking drugs doesnt affect anyone but me,and doing graffiti wouldnt if people just got used to it and accepted its going to happen legaly or illegaly

Just out of interest, what kind of area do you grafitti ie industrial, residential, city centre etc?

Originally posted by THCAyle
to be honest taking drugs doesnt affect anyone but me,and doing graffiti wouldnt if people just got used to it and accepted its going to happen legaly or illegaly

I've just been reading a book called "Dis/Connected: why our kids are turning their backs on everything we thought we knew". One of the topics covered in there is graffiti, and one of the viewpoints which I found quite interesting is that outdoor advertising is just graffiti done by companies who can afford to legitimise it.

Advertising is certainly more of an eyesore than graffiti.

Sorry, off topic I know, but I couldn't help mentioning it.

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
Cannabis and ecstasy are relatively harmless, "soft" drugs.

Anything else, you're in deep water.
Thats a dangerous generalisation to make, although I would agree with your general point.

Each drug must be considered in itself, and not as some general category of drugs, soft drugs, hard drugs etc.

The 1980 + amended Misuse of Drugs Act puts all drugs into three categories based on an index of harm.

Unfortunately it's total nonsense.

Some of the least dangerous drugs are in Class A, the most dangerous of them all is in Class B, and several that have been the root of nationwide addiction epidemics (tranquilisers) are in Class C.

Also, the 'harm' index of a drug, based on its physiological effects does not account for any positive effects - heroin is a devastating drug for many reasons, but it is a painkiller, and a very good one.

What is needed, in addition to the licencing and control of all drugs, is a thorough research program, both scientific and social, to study and track the effects of drugs and drug use on ourselves, including the use of currently legal drugs such as caffeine, refined sugar, nicotine, alcohol, pseudoephedrine, codeine, dextromethorphan hydrobromide, theobromine, salvinorum A&B etc.

Only then can we really understand drugs in the round.

As has been observed, prohibition of drugs merely serves to:

put any problems outside government control
inflate the cost to the user
expend valuable police time
Attract existing organised crime to the industry with incredible profits
lower the overall quality, purity and hence safety of products
stigmatise illegal drug users whilst exonerating legal drug users
enrich organised crime and terrorist enterprises
haemorrhage money out of communities
create tightly knit subcultures alienated from their surroundings


A continuation of the policy of prohibition only serves to deepen the problems caused by some drugs, and in the long term will never succeed except by a regression to totalitarian and authoritative measures.

I'm sorry but there is so much crap been written about this.

No one has ever dies from cannabis and there is NO LINK between cannabis and harder drugs like Heroin. If there was a link how come only 1/2 % of smokers go on to tak heroin. Which is about the same as alcohol users.

The difference is, you don't get offered heroin when you go for a pint.

And as for tattoos ridiculous claims that cannabis users want to fly or throw themselves off tall buildings, you must be getting your info from the 1930s, cos thatsa the kind of ****** they used to scare people into smoking a drug that no one had really even heard of. Oh, they also used racism as well, black men manipulating your white daughter etc.

Like Bill Hicks said about the guy that did acid and threw himself off a building to see if he could fly. What a tragedy???? No. What an idiot. Why didn't he try it from the ground first??? :-)

Education, not scaremongering, is what is needed so we can have a healthy society.

No one can tell me what I can and cannot put into my body.

agent gypo -- pretty much anywhere i see a good wall

i have tried so hard NOT to take part in this discussion but BHUNABOY .......

Puff...Blow..call it what you want
in my experience does link to harder drug taking

not all cannabis users smoke it ..they bake little cakes etc

there are hospital wards,community care homes full of paranoid people who have ( ONLY) smoked/eaten cannabis
the mental health problems/side effects of using this "social drug" are well known

talking to toooooo many heroin users over the years,there is but a handfull who did not start on cannabis, then tried a bit of speed, then hit the heroin
my findings are still going on in 2005 and sadly showing a move onto 'Crack Cocaine'

perhaps BHUNABOY you are talking about your personal surroundings/area
i am talking from suffolk/lancashire/yorkshire/ayrshire
the UN reported only this week that the UK had the biggest drug problem in Europe

there are no points for being right or wrong when discussing this problem
i would gladly let you prove me wrong if it would stop the devastation and heartbreak families are suffering

Scotia, I'm not disputing your findings, but what you have proved is that taking one illegal drug can lead on to taking another illegal drug. You cannot generalise from this to say that if cannibis were legal, people using it would still graduate on to take heroin/crack cocaine/whatever.

Also, have you studied what proportion of heroin users had previously used cigarettes and/or alcohol? I'd guess you'd find the figure to be 100% or near as dammit. You can't draw any inferences from only talking to cannabis users who did go on to take harder drugs, for a scientific study you'd also have to find out what proportion didn't.

Well let's face it prohibition doesn't work. Never has done, never will. The war on drugs is a farce and a waste of money.

So...what is the alternative? I'm not sure myself.

Bhunaboy has a good point - there is a lot of misinformation that flies around about drugs. In both directions - cannabis isn't gonna make you throw yourself off a building, however no drug is benign.

So it comes down to education. Personally, I believe that all people have the right to make their minds up for themselves - if you are going to take drugs, then you need to know what the possible detrimental effects are. For example, mental health issues. However, I believe that the decision must rest with the individual - i.e. take make responsible and well informed decisions. Legality - as long as your actions don't impact on anyone else, I don't see this as an issue.

However...when it comes to dealers pushing drugs to kids. This is criminal behaviour where people profit from the harm they know they will cause. I'm glad they got locked up. Therefore legalisation would surely be a useful way of making sure that drugs cannot get into the hands of people before they are at the age when they can make a proper, well informed adult decision.

Also perhaps if drug education in schools actually dealt with the issues in a more informative here are the facts sort of way instead of saying "all drugs are bad m'kay" then kids might not be so naive and as easily expoliatable.

Finally cannabis being a gateway drug into other things. This is a statement I've never found any evidence for but is always trumpeted by your moral guardians and such like. Guess what - loads of people smoke canabis and never go on to anything harder, hold down decent jobs and are respectable members of society and never touch anything else. How many heroin addicts tried alcohol before heroin I wonder - doesn't mean there is any causal link.

My 2p

Ed

Originally posted by THCAyle
agent gypo -- pretty much anywhere i see a good wall

why dont you treat the forum to a viewing of your so called art we wont call the police:D

i agree with you Dan and thank you

you are right i am pretty biased in my findings and didnt realise it until i read your comment

i have seen so much of the drug life perhaps too much really, i walked into the lions den with my eyes shut and came out completely shattered,physically,mentally and emotionally
over a period of 9yrs i have witnessed ie: a beautiful looking young 18yrs lass, lovely personality,educated,turn into a skeleton protituting for her 'crack cocaine'
she lost her children they were taken into care/adopted
her partner was on heroin,still is in fact

yes comments made on this forum help widen the views(can only be good)

Yes people can/do take heroin,snort cocaine, smoke cannabis and live 'normal' lives

as i said i wasnt going to comment,there are so many side aspects to this discussion
i am not sorry i did comment on the contrary

tc all

Thank you scotia, good that you have an open mind, and your experience and comments have added to the debate.

alright then panda,how about next weekend down at the sharrow basketball courts,call the police if you want,ide love to watch them getting more and more ****** off as they realise they cant arrest me....you can have a front row seat,bring the whole forum :D

Originally posted by THCAyle
alright then panda,how about next weekend down at the sharrow basketball courts,call the police if you want,ide love to watch them getting more and more ****** off as they realise they cant arrest me....you can have a front row seat,bring the whole forum :D

are you high on drugs today young yoof sounds like it to me:)

no,why do you ask,think im joking aswell,if you want a show of my art, ill give you one

Originally posted by THCAyle
no,why do you ask,think im joking aswell,if you want a show of my art, ill give you one

i might take you up on that offer as long as you and your yoof chums and your good self dont chase me into the sunset with your hooded tops on:loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

panda,stop being a stereotyping presuming *******

you see graffiti artists as mindless vandals who rob people,beat people up and be general dicks.were not,you have to realise that we are just like everyone else,apart from we illegaly spray paint things,GET THIS INTO YOUR HEAD

Originally posted by THCAyle
panda,stop being a stereotyping presuming ********

you see graffiti artists as mindless vandals who rob people,beat people up and be general dicks.were not,you have to realise that we are just like everyone else,apart from we illegaly spray paint things,GET THIS INTO YOUR HEAD


all you just said proves your just a foul mouthed yob who cant express thereselves without using foul language the sooner you learn to express yourself in a adult manner the better your life will be

innit:P

Originally posted by scotia
i have tried so hard NOT to take part in this discussion but BHUNABOY .......

Puff...Blow..call it what you want
in my experience does link to harder drug taking

not all cannabis users smoke it ..they bake little cakes etc

there are hospital wards,community care homes full of paranoid people who have ( ONLY) smoked/eaten cannabis
the mental health problems/side effects of using this "social drug" are well known

talking to toooooo many heroin users over the years,there is but a handfull who did not start on cannabis, then tried a bit of speed, then hit the heroin
my findings are still going on in 2005 and sadly showing a move onto 'Crack Cocaine'

perhaps BHUNABOY you are talking about your personal surroundings/area
i am talking from suffolk/lancashire/yorkshire/ayrshire
the UN reported only this week that the UK had the biggest drug problem in Europe

there are no points for being right or wrong when discussing this problem
i would gladly let you prove me wrong if it would stop the devastation and heartbreak families are suffering
Whata great piece you have written scotia,I totally agree with every word,my son took Cannabis & ended up suffering terrible paranoia, he suffered from Compulsive drug Disorder & Clinical Depression,I have seen this happen so no one can tell me they are all safe & you are right in sayoing about all the stupid names that have been given to these Life Destroying Drugs.Once again good piece.

because i swear im a yob....right,your great at juding people arent you panda(sarcasm incase your to stupid and take it as a compliment)i could express myself without using swear words but when all i do is type whats in my head.deal with it,and dont judge someone before you learn alittle bit about them,other than they do graffiti

Originally posted by THCAyle
because i swear I'm a yob....right,your great at juding people arent you panda(sarcasm incase your to stupid and take it as a compliment)i could express myself without using swear words but when all i do is type whats in my head.deal with it,and dont judge someone before you learn alittle bit about them,other than they do graffiti

hey i mince no words you are a yob you openly admit to comitting crimminal actsi suggest you learn to live with the laws of the land instead of turning areas \with your crappy art into ghettos

moving back to the orignal thread ill ask you this do you think the sentence given to the 2 drug dealers was fair do you think they should have been jailed for longer or maybe they should have been let off ?

jalied for life i think....all i was saying that not -all- drug dealers are bad,but heroin and crack dealers are scum

i am not a yob,and if i beleive in something i will do it,laws are made to be broken,and because there is paint on a wall does not turn something into a ghetto..ignorant fool

Originally posted by THCAyle
jalied for life i think....all i was saying that not -all- drug dealers are bad,but heroin and crack dealers are scum

i am not a yob,and if i beleive in something i will do it,laws are made to be broken,and because there is paint on a wall does not turn something into a ghetto..ignorant fool

im not ignorant and im not a fool if you are destroying private and public property for your own selfish needs you are breaking the law and in my eyes that makes you a fool

anyway im sure the law will catch up with you eventually i really hope when your in the dock you will be saying its my right etc then im sure you will be able to have a nice holiday paid for by the goverment:)

to many ninja skills to get caught,havnt been yet,and dont intend to

and IMO im not destroying property im improving it,but thats my opinion,and obviously not yours

Originally posted by THCAyle
to many ninja skills to get caught,havnt been yet,and dont intend to

and IMO im not destroying property im improving it,but thats my opinion,and obviously not yours

ninja skills the teenage mutant hero ones i reckon:D :D :D

"alcohol is more dangerous than a fair few other drugs..."

I'll drink to that! lol

because its illegal thats why and nothing you can say will change my mind

Out of interest Panda, if you were on holiday in a country where drugs were not illegal would they no longer be bad? Would people selling them in shops all be scum? What about drugs that are currently legal in this country? Are they OK? Do they suddenly become bad when criminalized??

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Out of interest Panda, if you were on holiday in a country where drugs were not illegal would they no longer be bad? Would people selling them in shops all be scum? What about drugs that are currently legal in this country? Are they OK? Do they suddenly become bad when criminalized??

if drugs are on prescription there ok but if your saying crack etc should be allowed to be sold then it will have to be a big no

do you really think that if tomorrow all banned drugs where made legal do you really think all the scummy dealers would stop selling it ? not on your life they wouldnt

if drugs are on prescription there ok but if your saying crack etc should be allowed to be sold then it will have to be a big no


Errr, where did I say that? There really is no hope for you, if I type it slowly will that make it easier? I don't recal saying anything about prescription drugs or making crack legal! Re-read my thread a bit slower and try to think before you answer.. I can't be bothered to explain.

pruned - no more tête a têtes please

I'm sorry that some people on here have relatives or friends that have had bad experiences with drugs, and I do know that they can destroy lives, some in my family have had bad expereinces.

But does that mean that I cannot enjoy a smoke with my mates? I have smoked for 15 years and I have absolutely no desire to 'try' heroin. So the claim that cannabis use leads on to harder drugs is false. Yes, some will elevate to harder drugs, but most wont. And if you asked heroin users is they had eaten cornflakes before they tried heroin, the majority will say yes.

Another point. The UK has the highest percentage of young drug users in Europe. You know who has one of the lowest??

Holland.

You couldn't make this **** up.

Originally posted by bhunaboy
Another point. The UK has the highest percentage of young drug users in Europe. You know who has one of the lowest??

Holland.

You couldn't make this **** up.

:clap:

tis true,just cus its legal dont mean everyone uses it

Originally posted by bhunaboy
I'm sorry that some people on here have relatives or friends that have had bad experiences with drugs, and I do know that they can destroy lives, some in my family have had bad expereinces.

But does that mean that I cannot enjoy a smoke with my mates? I have smoked for 15 years and I have absolutely no desire to 'try' heroin. So the claim that cannabis use leads on to harder drugs is false. Yes, some will elevate to harder drugs, but most wont. And if you asked heroin users is they had eaten cornflakes before they tried heroin, the majority will say yes.

Another point. The UK has the highest percentage of young drug users in Europe. You know who has one of the lowest??

Holland.

You couldn't make this **** up.
The claim that Cannabis use leads to harder drugs is false(Yes some will elevate to harder drugs)Make your mind up mate.I have no objection to any individual taking whatever,its up to the person taking a drug to see what harm it can do,but my son suffered terrible paranoia & clinical depression, his phsychiatrist said that Cannabis caused the symptons he was getting.The drug effects people in different ways,like any prescription drug does not suit some people,but does another.All I say to people who take whatever,be careful as you are not invincible.

Tosh13,

I think you're delibrately msunderstanding bhuna here.

As i read it, what he is saying is that the claim that cannabis leads on to harder drugs is not necessarily true - a claim that i can back up from my own experiences. Whilst some people may well progress from cannabis to harder drugs like heroin i think that they are the exceptions.

In my eyes, if the use of cannabis was legal then user of cannabis would not come into contact with people who may try to push harder drugs upon them. However, in my own experience, i have never gone to buy weed and been offered heroin or crack.

As far as i can see, the use of cannabis by somebody that has a propensity to paranoia/clinical depression/any other sort of mental illness can be an aggrevating factor in their illness - ie. people who tend towards paranoia and smoke cannabis may find their paranoia worsening - but for those people who don't have that sort of tendency i dont think it will induce paranoia/mental illness.

I think that the real dangers from drugs is ignorance - and a 'just say no' attitude to drugs doesn't do anything to combat this. My drugs education in school involved been shown a video of terrible things that happened to people on drugs and being told never to touch them. If more balanced information was available about the possible effects of drugs (including some of the good points of drugs) then maybe people could make an informed choice.

basshedz

Originally posted by THCAyle
tis true,just cus its legal dont mean everyone uses it

Street Drugs are illegal in Holland. People still get busted.

Originally posted by basshedz2
Tosh13,

I think you're delibrately msunderstanding bhuna here.

As i read it, what he is saying is that the claim that cannabis leads on to harder drugs is not necessarily true - a claim that i can back up from my own experiences. Whilst some people may well progress from cannabis to harder drugs like heroin i think that they are the exceptions.

In my eyes, if the use of cannabis was legal then user of cannabis would not come into contact with people who may try to push harder drugs upon them. However, in my own experience, i have never gone to buy weed and been offered heroin or crack.

As far as i can see, the use of cannabis by somebody that has a propensity to paranoia/clinical depression/any other sort of mental illness can be an aggrevating factor in their illness - ie. people who tend towards paranoia and smoke cannabis may find their paranoia worsening - but for those people who don't have that sort of tendency i dont think it will induce paranoia/mental illness.

I think that the real dangers from drugs is ignorance - and a 'just say no' attitude to drugs doesn't do anything to combat this. My drugs education in school involved been shown a video of terrible things that happened to people on drugs and being told never to touch them. If more balanced information was available about the possible effects of drugs (including some of the good points of drugs) then maybe people could make an informed choice.

basshedz
My son went to see a expert in his field & he said that the main factor in my son's clinical depression was caused by Cannabis & My drugs education was seeing my son suffer every day ,he smoked Cannabis heavily over the weekend july 2001 & smoked some heroin,he never injected,the compulsive drug disorder meant he could go months without anything & then feel really bad & take too much ,which he did in the early hours of July 4th 2001 he went into a coma & died at the age of 24.Cause at his hearing was a large amount of Cannabis smoked ,causing his blood pressure to drop & the small amount of heroin sent him into a coma & his body shut down.So I think my education is a little bit more hands on & been there seen it.

i agree with Tosh here

my friends son only had a wee shot at smoking Pot

he suffers from all sorts of mental health problems now and lives under the care in community programme in a dorm like house cared for by social workers etc as does his 11 ( in-mates)
there are 4 other houses in the complex in Blackpool(it is not the only complex)

of course my friend didnt get to find out for years what had caused his problems as he was protected by the patient confidentiality rules

she was gob-smacked when she found out as most of the young ones in her area smoke cannabis

i know i offered my tuppence worth and have put my hand up yes probably most cannabis smokers do not go on to harder drugs

but will add that the heroin users i have spoken to started on cannabis whether there is a link or not would have to be reseached fully before i personally will be completely convinced

i do think cannabis users should be made aware of the dangers of using this so called soft social drug especially the wee 8yrs old boy who was smoking a spliff at moonshine lane shops
when i tried to talk to him he told me to fuff off or should that have been puff off ......not being flippant...he even offered me a draw...tell me what are you meant to do eh!!

Originally posted by tosh13
My son went to see a expert in his field & he said that the main factor in my son's clinical depression was caused by Cannabis & My drugs education was seeing my son suffer every day ,he smoked Cannabis heavily over the weekend july 2001 & smoked some heroin,he never injected,the compulsive drug disorder meant he could go months without anything & then feel really bad & take too much ,which he did in the early hours of July 4th 2001 he went into a coma & died at the age of 24.Cause at his hearing was a large amount of Cannabis smoked ,causing his blood pressure to drop & the small amount of heroin sent him into a coma & his body shut down.So I think my education is a little bit more hands on & been there seen it.


This tells me eveything i need to know.


And my best wishes to you Tosh.
.

IMO Cannabis doesn't make you paranoid. It amplifies your thoughts, swamping the brain with the little thoughts that don't usually reach the surface. So if you are already a paranoid or unhappy person don't smoke. However if you want to enjoy music, nature, crap tv, partying, pondering or even the housework then occasional Cannabis use is great.

Same goes for Alchohol, it doesn't make you violent - it disinhibits you, and if you are a nasty violent person on the inside it might bring it out.

Originally posted by Norbert
IMO Cannabis doesn't make you paranoid. It amplifies your thoughts, swamping the brain with the little thoughts that don't usually reach the surface. So if you are already a paranoid or unhappy person don't smoke. However if you want to enjoy music, nature, crap tv, partying, pondering or even the housework then occasional Cannabis use is great.

Same goes for Alchohol, it doesn't make you violent - it disinhibits you, and if you are a nasty violent person on the inside it might bring it out.
Doesn't it my son's physchatrist said it does ,I would rather believe an expert.

at long last the Goverment have found out what some of us have known for years

WTG TOSH

I agree with Tosh
I work with people with mental health problems
A lot of them have taken cannabis,some harder drugs.

We have a lot of training from someone who works on the frontline ,working with people who come out of the acute hospital wards,so I guess they see it as it is.

The use of cannabis obviously alters they way that the brain works.If it didnt, there would be no point in taking it would there?.
It is a slippery slope,especially for people who have a propensity to addiction.It is hard to say where you draw the line.
Some people use cannabis at night/weekends and they say that they can manage and cope well with this.Some people drink and smoke lots over the same period and say they can also cope.
Anything that affects your personality to a degree where it prevents you from functioning properly and leading a healthy life,then why do it?Surely your own health and wellbeing is more important than the thrill you get from taking a drug
Why do you think that so many drug users/alchoholics end up with psychiatrists?
I see it al the time.The only way is to say No in the first pllace and the education has to begin from a very early age,developing kids self esteem and praising them when they act responsibly.
How would we survive if there were no illegal drugs in the world.Would everyone be walking around with withdrawal symptoms?

LONDON (Reuters) - The government says it has asked for an assessment of its decision to ease the rules on cannabis after studies showed the drug's use may be linked to mental health problems.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke, a year after his predecessor controversially reclassified the drug, has written to the Advisory Council for the Misuse of Drugs, a statutory and non-executive public body, asking them to review the downgrade to a relatively low risk C category.

The move put cannabis on a level with tranquilisers and anabolic steroids.

That meant adults caught in possession of a small amount of cannabis could still be arrested, but the maximum penalty was cut to two years' in jail from five.

Clarke said there was no indication that the use of cannabis had increased since the downgrade but added that studies had shown up dangers.

He mentioned a Maastricht University study which concluded that "cannabis use moderately increases the risk of psychotic symptoms in young people but has a much stronger effect in those with evidence of predisposition of psychosis".

"I think there is merit in the Advisory Council assessing whether their position is at all changed by the emerging evidence," Clarke wrote.

Opposition parties said the letter showed the government had recognised it had been wrong to downgrade cannabis.

"The downgrading of cannabis was a dreadful decision which sends out mixed messages about the dangers of drugs," David Davies, the shadow home secretary, said in a statement
Well it takes a big man to admit his mistake,what Blunkett did was wrong,but I think this should have been looked at before downgrading the drug,but they say better late than never.

Originally posted by tosh13
LONDON (Reuters) - The government says it has asked for an assessment of its decision to ease the rules on cannabis after studies showed the drug's use may be linked to mental health problems.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke, a year after his predecessor controversially reclassified the drug, has written to the Advisory Council for the Misuse of Drugs, a statutory and non-executive public body, asking them to review the downgrade to a relatively low risk C category.

The move put cannabis on a level with tranquilisers and anabolic steroids.

That meant adults caught in possession of a small amount of cannabis could still be arrested, but the maximum penalty was cut to two years' in jail from five.

Clarke said there was no indication that the use of cannabis had increased since the downgrade but added that studies had shown up dangers.

He mentioned a Maastricht University study which concluded that "cannabis use moderately increases the risk of psychotic symptoms in young people but has a much stronger effect in those with evidence of predisposition of psychosis".

"I think there is merit in the Advisory Council assessing whether their position is at all changed by the emerging evidence," Clarke wrote.

Opposition parties said the letter showed the government had recognised it had been wrong to downgrade cannabis.

"The downgrading of cannabis was a dreadful decision which sends out mixed messages about the dangers of drugs," David Davies, the shadow home secretary, said in a statement
Well it takes a big man to admit his mistake,what Blunkett did was wrong,but I think this should have been looked at before downgrading the drug,but they say better late than never.

So Tosh,does that mean they will review it now?

Two petty drug dealers near to the Merrie Monk pub Manor Park have recently been busted again. They are both whinging and whining and pointing the finger of blame at all and sundry.

Don’t these people realise that once they have a long record for being drug dealers the police will keep an eye on them, and will crack (no pun intended) down on them from time to time.
:loopy:

Originally posted by espadrille
So Tosh,does that mean they will review it now?
Looks like it.What Blunket did was stupid in the 1st place.

Scotia, psychiatric wards, community care homes etc. aren't full of paranoid people who became that way through smoking/eating cannabis. They are full of people with a variety of mental health problems caused by an even bigger variety of factors. Yes, sometimes cannabis can exacerbate or trigger underlying symptoms but sometimes it can help alleviate them too. Mental health wards have a significant number of people whose problems have been caused by or worsened by alcohol however. I have yet to meet anyone who has become 'mad' through ingesting THC

A lot of the recent confusion about cannabis started when the police in Lambeth thought that the efforts put into nicking drug dealers and drug possessors [cannabis] in Lambeth would be better deployed chasing heroin and crack dealers. When they did it for one borough , no doubt there were outcries from other areas , to be given the same status.
This led to all sorts of complications and misunderstandings. The interesting thing , however , is why the police in Lambeth wanted to give up the struggle , when soft drugs were practically being sold openly ? Surely it wouldn't have been difficult to nick a few drug dealers in that area ?
I wonder why they didn't ? Can you think of a reason ?

Originally posted by Carl_Malibu
Cannabis and ecstasy are relatively harmless, "soft" drugs.

Thats arguable - there plenty of evidence emerging that cannabis can cause considerable psychological harm (provoking paraoia and schizophrenia amoungst others!) and as an amphetamine derivative I can't imagine that ecstacy is entirely benign.

Aside from that theres the fact that you don't know what it is you are buying - do you really want some unknown and probably impure substance screwing up your body?

Originally posted by evildrneil

Aside from that theres the fact that you don't know what it is you are buying - do you really want some unknown and probably impure substance screwing up your body?

another reason for legalising most illegal substances.


mind you i find it quite ironic that heroin was used to get people of methodone years gone by

Originally posted by Gordie OS1
another reason for legalising most illegal substances.


mind you i find it quite ironic that heroin was used to get people of methodone years gone by

erm

Morphine to cure opium addiction
Heroin to cure morphine addiction
Methadone to cure heroin addiction

Not sure what they've got lined up for methadone addicts.

All drug dealers should be executed.

Ask any druggie or ex-druggie. They all started on cannabis.

Take a leaf out of the countries in the 'golden triangle'.


These people grow the stuff and sell the stuff.

So there is no middleman.

Legalising is crap. Since when did a drunkard rob or murder for their next pint of bitter ?

Originally posted by petebarker
All drug dealers should be executed.

Ask any druggie or ex-druggie. They all started on cannabis.

Take a leaf out of the countries in the 'golden triangle'.


These people grow the stuff and sell the stuff.

So there is no middleman.

Legalising is crap. Since when did a drunkard rob or murder for their next pint of bitter ?

How very very naive and misinformed.
cannabis is not the gateway drug the "sun reader" types say it is
bbc info (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2538065.stm)


legalising is the way forward, since when did a stoner beat the living daylights out of someone to look hard in front of his mates?

alcohol is, and always will be the cause of most crime, serious injurys and death

Originally posted by petebarker

Take a leaf out of the countries in the 'golden triangle'.


That counts as drug trafficking I believe........

STONE HIM!


:P

Originally posted by petebarker
All drug dealers should be executed.

Ask any druggie or ex-druggie. They all started on cannabis.

Take a leaf out of the countries in the 'golden triangle'.


These people grow the stuff and sell the stuff.

So there is no middleman.

Legalising is crap. Since when did a drunkard rob or murder for their next pint of bitter ?

Im a druggie, in that I smoke alot of cannabis - and have never been tempted to rob anyone, kill anyone, fight anyone, sell to anyone, try other drugs other than booze - I have been this way for many years and cant see myself changing into a crook. I have a good job, good relationship, am not a mental wreck or scourge of society. Im a very happy person.
I dont go ******* or throwing up in the street when stoned, i dont start fights, scare people or randomly vandalise things for a laugh.

Oh - maybe people dont murder anyone for their next pint, but plenty of people murder because of or with the help of their last pint.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Lucky for them our country is slacker than others! Imagine if they would have been caught in Thailand :| (Read the book "Damage done".. THAT'S what you call punishment).

It's even more naive to suggest that crime in the UK is not fuelled by drugs.

Ask any copper. They will tell you .

Over 80% of crime is drug related.

Oh, for the 1950's and before !

Originally posted by panda79
because its illegal thats why and nothing you can say will change my mind

not a a dealer are you lol

so if drugs were legal itd be ok then?

hmm

people always seem to get on the soapbox about drugs, and the topic comes up time and time again.

you can put all dealers in the same bracket, yes a lot are scum, BUT some only sell a bit to friends, family and friends of friends (is that really bad? its only like lending them a cd or a tenner or something)
And no most do not sell outside the school gates........well unless the dealer is a pupil of the school.
and not all people on drugs are smack adled granny muggers, its not all black and white, there is degrees of usage, the majority just smoke a bit of weed or drop a couple of es a weekend just like youd go for a couple of pints.

booze, gambling, shopping and fags etc screw up lives, should the dealers of these also be called scum and locked up?

Originally posted by petebarker
It's even more naive to suggest that crime in the UK is not fuelled by drugs.

Ask any copper. They will tell you .

Over 80% of crime is drug related.

Oh, for the 1950's and before !

theres always been drugs AND crime

including before the 1950s.

was still a dangerous time (what ive read :P)

I too was all for legalising all drugs until i mentioned it to my mate who's a police officer, he argued that with every dealer thats caught and the drugs flushed, there's someone above them waiting for payment, someone above that person etc etc slowly one by one they all get killed because they can't afford to pay the person above and they got caught with the drugs.

His other good point was if they legalised hard drugs then a lot of people would find it the easy way out of work, get smashed off their faces day in day out, never have to work or do anything themselves. Free housing, free money, free drugs, how tempting would that sound to a lot of people, plus if you think about it, they'd have to limit the amount that they gave each person but there'd always be someone wanting more so therefore burglaries would still happen, dealing would still happen, there would be no change except probably more addicts.

The only way we can curb the drug problem is to stop the dealers dealing, most people won't grass them up because of fear though, its sad to think that the countries drug problem is getting worse and there's nothing really anyone can do about it.

Originally posted by tinkabel


The only way we can curb the drug problem is to stop the dealers dealing, most people won't grass them up because of fear though, its sad to think that the countries drug problem is getting worse and there's nothing really anyone can do about it. [/B]

but as youve already stated in your opening statement.........theres always somebody above....you can also say everytime theres a dealer caught and out of the game theres always another 3 (or whatever) willing to take his place........it is a never ending cycle and i just dont think there is a way to win like that

Originally posted by Agent Gypo
Has there ever, ever been a fatality as a result of using cannabis?

There has been a few ecstacy related deaths, but it is not the drug itself that kills.

yes my lovely - somewhat indirectly though..... I know someone who was totally sane before getting into skunk - started smoking it day in day out and then the voices and paranoia started.... Killed himself and badly harmed someone else in the end..... everyone, including his family said it was due to the skunk. Bright outgoing friendly person before he started doing weed.

Originally posted by Juicyb125
yes my lovely - somewhat indirectly though..... I know someone who was totally sane before getting into skunk - started smoking it day in day out and then the voices and paranoia started.... Killed himself and badly harmed someone else in the end..... everyone, including his family said it was due to the skunk. Bright outgoing friendly person before he started doing weed.

This happened to a friend of mine, he stabbed himself repeatedly in the chest until he died.

Only difference was he wasn't taking cannabis at the time, he was taking seroxhat. Never touched cannabis in his life.

And you can't count the number of tragedies that haven't happened because people have self medicated with cannabis.

Juicy B125 ,
Well , no doubt , we have all come across beer drinkers who , quite happily have a few pints a day with no ill-effects and perhaps we also know the odd alcoholic who is killing him/her self on a couple of bottles of whiskey a day ,
So what ? What does it prove , other than some people can handle mild drugs , without going any further , and others can't ? Big deal ! What are we supposed to do ? Stop all artificial stimulants and drugs because a minority can't cope ?

Decided I had said too much - anyone who read my previous outpouring.

Apologies...:blush:

Melthe ball ,

You must truly live in , "cloud Cuckoo Land " , if you think the 1950's resembles the present day , re----crime and drugs !
Obviously drug related crime existed in the 1950's and probably existed in Roman times -------or before.
But , you're missing the whole point , and that is why , on every indication [not to mention common -sense observation ] , not only has crime increased dramatically since the '50's but also drug addiction has too. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there may be a connection somewhere ! I.E. A young boy wants to buy expensive drugs , He's unemployed and /or skint . How to get some money ? Doh ! You've got it at last !
He doesn't have to nip over to Columbia to buy it , does he ? Or the West Indies ?

Originally posted by Fareast
Melthe ball ,

You must truly live in , "cloud Cuckoo Land " , if you think the 1950's resembles the present day , re----crime and drugs !
Obviously drug related crime existed in the 1950's and probably existed in Roman times -------or before.
But , you're missing the whole point , and that is why , on every indication [not to mention common -sense observation ] , not only has crime increased dramatically since the '50's but also drug addiction has too. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that there may be a connection somewhere ! I.E. A young boy wants to buy expensive drugs , He's unemployed and /or skint . How to get some money ? Doh ! You've got it at last !
He doesn't have to nip over to Columbia to buy it , does he ? Or the West Indies ?

i never said theres no link to drugs and crime, I KNOW THERE IS, ive hung about with enough druggies in my time, also winos, glue sniffers.

all i said was theres always been crime AND drugs so its no use being rose tinted......maybe not as bad in one way but i bet it was dodgy in other ways.

Melthebell ,

Well , I honestly took your comment to imply that the 1950's in Britain , as regards crime and drugs , was not much different from today.
I think there IS a very big difference , not just in absolute , bare , numbers but in the intensity of the violence used today.
One interesting thing to do , if you get the chance , is to have a look at the old , "Stars " in the library , from the 1950's and look at the crimes being committed then. Even the smallest crime was often reported in detail. These days a common-or garden shooting barely makes the front page !
Guns were very rarely used in the 50's and 60's , compared with today. I'll not mention any names , for obvious reasons but round about 1961 a Sheffield man and his pal from London were convicted of a series of crimes involving guns but they hadn't killed anybody. One got 21 years and the other 19 years -----and there was no parole in those days . If you were , "lucky" you got out after doing 2/3 rds. of your sentence. The case caused a sensation in Sheffield. Today ? It would be one amongst many ------and the sentence? Anyone's guess but I bet it wouldn't run to double figures , in practice.
No , the '50's were very different and I'm sure people FELT a lot safer and WERE a lot safer than today.

Drugs are alien to British society.


I don't care if some get a cheap thrill from some drugs in the UK.


Any dealers at all, should be given the 'death sentence'.

Dealers should be brought to account for the lives they ruin,they prey on the vunrable,turn them into living wrecks & destroy not only the user but the familes of the said user.The sad thing is many people seem to think taking drugs such as cannabis etc does not & cannot lead to the user taking stronger drugs & I for know this to be rubbish,I have said in other posts about losing my son to drugs & the scum who peddle them are still walking about.I have said enough on this subject & I would ask anyone who feels any different to say in a post & not PM me thanks & goodbye

Originally posted by petebarker
Drugs are alien to British society.




LOL

Drugs have been a part of british "society" for centuries, most of the victorian writers were taking opium

Originally posted by melthebell
LOL

Drugs have been a part of british "society" for centuries, most of the victorian writers were taking opium

Writers?

tsch, half the well-to-do babies in the land were on Godfrey's Cordial at the time.

over 10,000 people in the sheffield area are prescribed Prozac (or the generic equivalent fluoxetine) a drug not dissimilar to MDMA (ecstasy, e).

But there isn't much of a living shamanic tradition in the UK that involves indigenous psychoactives, and despite searches, little evidence for early mushroom use.

The most common indigenous drugs of yore are the tropane alkaloids as found in nightshade, henbane & wolfsbane and a number of other British plants.

Tropane alkaloids aren't a great deal of fun, as an effective dose is not far from a lethal one. Tropane alkaloids, also found in laburnum seeds, include scopolamine - an early truth drug (and anti-travel sickness medication).

But the notion that "drugs are alien to british culture" is obviously hogwash, when you consider the opium wars, coffee houses, gin joints and ale houses the country has had in its time.

Anyone wondering why people become drug dealers in the first place should have a look at this report (http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,1521501,00.html) which the government refused to publish. Better profit margins that Louis Vuitton and Gucci? I'm having some of that!

The second half of that leaked report revealed that 'Heavy LSD users' spend £15 a week on their preferred drug.

Makes you wonder about the quality of the research really......

That sounds about right, I think that's more-or-less what I was spending for the entire month-or-so that I was a heavy LSD user (i.e. took it every weekend).

That's kind of what I was thinking - your experience of heavy LSD use is pretty stereotypical (in a nice way) i.e. unsustained.

They may spend £15 a week, but most 'heavy users' aren't spending much more than £60-£100 a year

I wonder how many 'heavy users' of LSD there are.

Might actually have to start a thread on the report once I've read all 105 pages of it.

Fascinating reading - I wonder why the government tried to make it disappear?

hi and whats wrong with people just sayin NO to drugs and gettin a life you dont need drugs and drink to have a good time and remember what u did im no tea totaler but i dont believe in taking drugs and never will and the dealers deserve all they get when caught

Originally posted by maggyirene
hi and whats wrong with people just sayin NO to drugs and gettin a life you dont need drugs and drink to have a good time and remember what u did im no tea totaler but i dont believe in taking drugs and never will and the dealers deserve all they get when caught
But the question is, do they deserve all they get when they're not caught, i.e. lifestyles of the rich & famous, or should the government be doing something to make drug-dealing less profitable (for example, by legalising it) rather than making life misery for 20% of dealers and luxury for the other 80%?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Fascinating reading - I wonder why the government tried to make it disappear?

Perhaps because "The suppressed pages say that the drugs supply market into Britain is sophisticated and attempts to intervene have not resulted in sustainable disruption to the market at any level."

Aren't the govt. supposed to be being 'tough on the causes of crime' ? :)

To shut down a trafficker, because their profits are so high, you need to intercept 60% of their product to make it financially not worth it.

If you accept there are over 200,000,000 drug users in the word (latest figures) then keeping drugs illegal is the best way to extract £210,000,000,000 out of those 200,000,000 and give it, tax free, to criminals and repressive militias all over the world.

Also by keeping drugs illegal, you artificially inflate the prices. Heroin rises by 1000% in cost if it crosses a national boundary. In comparison, coffee increases by 18%.

When you force a high price for extremely addictive susbtances, you get property crime to support a habit that may cost upwards of £500 a week (heavy crack user).

Drug Motivated property crime (theft/robbery to fund a habit) costs this country £19,000,000,000 a year.

That's nineteen billion quid of your money and mine, because the price of crack and smack is 100 times what it should be.

Originally posted by maggyirene
hi and whats wrong with people just sayin NO to drugs and gettin a life you dont need drugs and drink to have a good time and remember what u did im no tea totaler but i dont believe in taking drugs and never will and the dealers deserve all they get when caught

theres nothing wrong with anybody saying no.............i dont force anybody to do drugs.

but i will tell people there is positive aspects aswell as the negatives and i believe its a persons right to put whatever in their bodies.........just as much as keep stuff out of their bodies :)

Originally posted by panda79
******** if you sell any drug be it cannibas crack whatever your still a scum bag
Does that list include the poison called alcohol, or sugar that rots teeth make you fat and helps you on your way to a heart attack?

I take illegal drugs for inspiration (http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/telegraphdrugs.htm)

Phanerothyme you make a very good point.

The one major problem with the legalisation of drugs was outlined by none other than Bill Bailey

and how the people that know why drugs should be legalised are too busy getting stoned to ever get it anywhere

I think the classification of magic mushrooms is one of the stupidest things the government has done in recent times.
Mushrooms were always the "soft" hallucinagen, they are not damaging long term and they keep people away from hard drugs

now that theyre class A, people who have been taking them regularly or even people who have wanted to take them will now see no trouble taking other class A drugs (pills, HEROIN, CRACK, lsd, etc.)
Now, I'm not sure how many psychoactive drug users we have on the forum but as far as I know mushrooms have never ever ever ever been on the same level as these.

Originally posted by RUBBER
Does that list include the poison called alcohol, or sugar that rots teeth make you fat and helps you on your way to a heart attack?

no it doesnt as far as i no alcohol or bags of sugar are not sold on steet corners by dubious persons:confused:

So that's the problem then! All we have to do is sell heroin out of a shop-front and it will be OK. Thanks for clearing that one up.

Originally posted by DanSumption
So that's the problem then! All we have to do is sell heroin out of a shop-front and it will be OK. Thanks for clearing that one up.

eh

i didnt in anyway say that drugs should be sold in shops

You said that if you sell cannibas [sic: I'm gonna whup your cannibass] crack whatever you are a scum bag.

But you said that drugs which are not sold on street corners, such as alcohol and sugar, are OK.

So by your logic, drugs sold in shops are OK. Put heroin in a shop and suddenly it's not a problem.

Genius!

Originally posted by DanSumption
You said that if you sell cannibas [sic: I'm gonna whup your cannibass] crack whatever you are a scum bag.

But you said that drugs which are not sold on street corners, such as alcohol and sugar, are OK.

So by your logic, drugs sold in shops are OK. Put heroin in a shop and suddenly it's not a problem.

Genius!

i was pointing out that you cant compare sugar and alchohol to heroin or crack or whatever thats all ,

hope that clears that one up

Originally posted by meer
I know no-one will agree with this, but I think all drugs should be legal
If drugs were legal, the money made from taxes on them would go to good causes rather than keeping dealers in BMWs and guns. Also the drugs would be clean, meaning people wouldn't die from them as often.
I don't take drugs and if they were legal, I wouldn't start. If people want to be stupid and hurt THEMSELVES, not others, they should be allowed to and not be treated like criminals.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

well said, just because alcohol and ciggarettes are legal doesn't mean thaat I have to drink or smoke!!

It's all about choice

Originally posted by panda79
i was pointing out that you cant compare sugar and alchohol to heroin or crack or whatever thats all ,

hope that clears that one up
But you can: several people on here already have.

Originally posted by DanSumption
But you can: several people on here already have.

well thats there opinion ive got my views on the subject and im sticking to it

anyway when was the last time you heard about anyone breaking into a house for a 2lb bag of tate and lyle

Originally posted by panda79
well thats there opinion ive got my views on the subject and im sticking to it

anyway when was the last time you heard about anyone breaking into a house for a 2lb bag of tate and lyle
When sugar is criminalised, only criminals will eat sugar!

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Originally posted by DanSumption
When sugar is criminalised, only criminals will eat sugar!

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

all this is totally lost on me i guess ill leave the druggies on this thread to have some nice wacky backy or puff so they can chill out:)

I've only read about 3 pages of this, because theres so many replies.
So i'll just put my 2 pence worth.
the phrase, 'he/she's on drugs' annoys me so much.
Theres a world of difference between Cannabis and 'hard stuff' (crack and heroin).
Smoking a spliff is far safer than alcohol/ciggys (sweeping statement but my opinion).
All this, 'cannabis is start of the slippery slope', complete rubbish- having your first few drinks or a few ciggys is a far slippier slope.
Putting Ecstacy in the same classification as Heroin and Crack Cocaine is ludicrous. If you go to a club which is predominately Ecsatcy users, theres no trouble, unlike alcohol fuelled clubs. And none of them feel the necessity to break into houses to pay for the pills.
I'm sorry to any readers of this, whos friends/relatives have got hooked on s**t like Heroin. I knew someone whose life was ruined by that. People who push this stuff cheaply onto vunerable people to get them hooked, should be shot in my world, but the profit is so high, they dont care.

gotta go, in need of another beer.
:confused:

Originally posted by djash1000
I've only read about 3 pages of this, because theres so many replies.
So i'll just put my 2 pence worth.
the phrase, 'he/she's on drugs' annoys me so much.
Theres a world of difference between Cannabis and 'hard stuff' (crack and heroin).
Smoking a spliff is far safer than alcohol/ciggys (sweeping statement but my opinion).
All this, 'cannabis is start of the slippery slope', complete rubbish- having your first few drinks or a few ciggys is a far slippier slope.
Putting Ecstacy in the same classification as Heroin and Crack Cocaine is ludicrous. If you go to a club which is predominately Ecsatcy users, theres no trouble, unlike alcohol fuelled clubs. And none of them feel the necessity to break into houses to pay for the pills.
I'm sorry to any readers of this, whos friends/relatives have got hooked on s**t like Heroin. I knew someone whose life was ruined by that. People who push this stuff cheaply onto vunerable people to get them hooked, should be shot in my world, but the profit is so high, they dont care.

gotta go, in need of another beer.
:confused:


The people that use drugs that are classified as Illegal substances or abuse prescription medication they are not authorised to posess are criminals, and should be dealt with as such treatment dosent work so lock them up for as long as is necessary that will reduce a hell of a lot of the associated crime too.

Originally posted by redhawk
The people that use drugs that are classified as Illegal substances or abuse prescription medication they are not authorised to posess are criminals, and should be dealt with as such treatment dosent work so lock them up for as long as is necessary that will reduce a hell of a lot of the associated crime too.

I dont get your meaning. Im not saying 'its right' to use illegal drugs, i just dont agree with the classification of certain drugs, and i dont agree with people opinions that 'all drugs are the same and as bad as each other'

lock em up, and throw away the key's

I also think we should take out the black market by legalising things or perhaps making alcohol illegal to at least make an even playing field for both vices.

Have stumbled across some quite high up dealers in my time but even these guys seem to keep blowing their money on gold chains, 'tins' and cars and live in crappy houses. add to this the constant threat of going inside and getting shot i can't see the attraction but i think some people love the adrenalin of it all as much as the drug of choice.

Maybe they do it because its a job you don't really need brain cells for ,let alone GCSEs. All you need to be able to do is maths at an 8 year olds level and maybe have a form of transport. I agree the majority of drugs should be legal, but I think highly addictive ones should not. IMO if cigarettes are legal then why not cannabis, they're both relatively harmful probably about the same as each other:confused: .

i hate it when people who are obssesed with weed and then diss other drugs down like crack or drink. skunk is just as strong.

so are drugs to doctors/hospitals you know what i meant,i mean how can legalising be the answer surley it would increase the problem many times
why would it. one of the reasons why there is so much crime surrounding the sale of illegal drugs is that they are sold by criminals.

so naive panda sooo very naive. are they gollywogs on your avatar by the way? that's not cool.