Evening All,

Does anyone on here use the CrossCountry Train Service between Sheffield and Leeds on a daily basis, in particular the 4 peak time services (0712, 0821 Sheffield -Leeds, and the 1710, 1810 Leeds -Sheffield) and have you noticed the severe overcrowding on these trains and also the amount of times these services are late curtailed, cancelled.

Or do you use the Northern Rail services at peak times (0649, 0704, 0714, 0751 Sheffield -Leeds, and the 1648, 1716, 1734, 1748 Leeds - Sheffield) and fed up of the same overcrowding, late trains and cancellations.

Myself and a group of likeminded commuters who use these trains on a daily basis, are trying to get CrossCountry and Northern to improve the services and get some answers as to why commuters are treated so badly on there services, yet we are the same people who pay up front for upwards of 7days to use there services and get a decent quality of service for all passengers.

We would like all commuters to email CrossCountry's customer relations team if you use these services, and those who use the Northern Rail services please contact there customer relations team.

We would also like those who catch these services to add there comments to our blog at crapcountrytrains_blogspot_com

Hopefully this way we can start to make CrossCountry and Northern improve their services.

If you have any ideas, on any other action we can take, then let me know.

Thanks for reading
Andy

My husband and I have just become pensioners and travel to Leeds once a week fortunately we travel free on our passes. We enjoy this service, but must say if we had to pay we might be singing a different tune. Good Luck.............

I do a Sheffield to Leeds 1st class return about once a week always on the “fast” Cross Country train. Any train after 15:10 will have passengers standing I was on the 16:10 today luckily I got a seat but 1st class was full of people standing. I have spent many journeys standing or sitting on the floor next to the toilet! I can’t always book a seat as I often travel at short notice – I’m happy to sit in standard but there are no seats there either. Sometime the train is so overcrowded I also have safety concerns.

The train companies know there is a problem with overcrowding, the trains used simply do not have enough carriages, and this is the same if not worse on the Sheffield to Birmingham route. When I have tried to book seats a number of times I’ve not been able to because every seat in first class is booked already!

I’ve tried complaining but all I have got is some token refund which is no good what I want is a seat and the train to run on time - so options are put up with it, change job or go by car – the train companies are not interested in customer service just profit!

If you want me to add my protest to yours I’m happy to do so although I’m a regular user rather than a daily commuter.

I left my job in leeds. Really loved the job, but the commute on the trains was horrendous and I couldn't take it any more. You could never guarantee when they would turn up and when they did turn up they were rammed.

I used to use it and it was terrible. What used to frustrate me most is that when the cross country trains were particularly overcrowded they would put out an announcement at Leeds station that people for Wakefield and Sheffield shouldn't board the Virgin trains - but they still stopped at Sheffield and Wakefield?????

Loads of people from the virgin trains would try and get onto the local services so they would have to start turning people away ten minutes before the train was due to leave. It was chaotic and awful and the prices were unbelievable.

Good luck with your campaign.

I'm not certain if this makes a difference or not on the Sheffield to Leeds service. The main reason there aren't more carriages on the peak Sheffield to Manchester routes is that the platforms stopped at are too small for anymore than the carriages used.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I was on a service that didn't stop at Dore as there were too many carriages, so all the people who wanted to get off there had to come to Sheffield, and then get a train half an hour later back out again.

It was health and safety that dictated these people couldn't get off as someone might try to 'jump' from a door where there was no platform, the rail company aren't aloud to take that risk!

I would think this might affect the slow stopping service between Sheffield and Leeds, but not the faster service?

Evening All,

Does anyone on here use the CrossCountry Train Service between Sheffield and Leeds on a daily basis, in particular the 4 peak time services (0712, 0821 Sheffield -Leeds, and the 1710, 1810 Leeds -Sheffield) and have you noticed the severe overcrowding on these trains and also the amount of times these services are late curtailed, cancelled.

Or do you use the Northern Rail services at peak times (0649, 0704, 0714, 0751 Sheffield -Leeds, and the 1648, 1716, 1734, 1748 Leeds - Sheffield) and fed up of the same overcrowding, late trains and cancellations.

Myself and a group of likeminded commuters who use these trains on a daily basis, are trying to get CrossCountry and Northern to improve the services and get some answers as to why commuters are treated so badly on there services, yet we are the same people who pay up front for upwards of 7days to use there services and get a decent quality of service for all passengers.

We would like all commuters to email CrossCountry's customer relations team if you use these services, and those who use the Northern Rail services please contact there customer relations team.

We would also like those who catch these services to add there comments to our blog at crapcountrytrains_blogspot_com

Hopefully this way we can start to make CrossCountry and Northern improve their services.

If you have any ideas, on any other action we can take, then let me know.

Thanks for reading
Andy

That's a good idea for a blog but I'd recommend toning down the sarcastic and insulting comments against CrossCountry. It undermines your case.

If you were to state the delays and overcrowding in an objective way and include photos, that'd be sufficient to show the poor service of the franchise. It doesn't require additional colour commentary.

:)

I'm not certain if this makes a difference or not on the Sheffield to Leeds service. The main reason there aren't more carriages on the peak Sheffield to Manchester routes is that the platforms stopped at are too small for anymore than the carriages used.

As ridiculous as it sounds, I was on a service that didn't stop at Dore as there were too many carriages, so all the people who wanted to get off there had to come to Sheffield, and then get a train half an hour later back out again.

It was health and safety that dictated these people couldn't get off as someone might try to 'jump' from a door where there was no platform, the rail company aren't aloud to take that risk!

I would think this might affect the slow stopping service between Sheffield and Leeds, but not the faster service?

Really? That's shocking - normally they only open the doors that are on the platform and tell you to go to the carriage! When I emailed East Midlands and asked them why the only put 3 carriages on the main rush hour service that runs Norwich through Liverpool Lime Street and back, I was told they inherited lots of unworthy carriages that had to be taken out of service... guess they didn't feel the need to replace them. Now they wack a first class carriage from SW trains on the service, not many seats in it, doesn't exactely help the severe overcrowding.

Dore is big enough for 6 carriages I think, (I'm sure swordfish will correct me if I'm wrong), there's no excuse for a 3 carriage train. That said the TPE Cleethorpes service is equally as rammed at rush hour but at least that one has the good grace to turn up on time 95% of the time, more than I can say for East Midlands terrible service.

I've not used Northern Services regularly, I just recall there being zero leg room unless you're 10 years old!

I'm afraid I endure this route on a daily basis as well but at least I escape at Wakefield. That does mean though that I have to force my way on to the train at Wakefield on the way back to Sheffield. After a pretty good run over the last few weeks - good meaning stood up, but at least with room to stand - tonight was back to the worst.

I complained to CrossCountry "customer relations" before Christmas and got a pitiful cut and paste response. A couple of weeks ago I wrote to the managing director and got a brief reply telling me that there would be five carriages on the peak trains (Monday to Thursday) and eight - nine carriages on Fridays. That's obviously still not enough as shown tonight crammed in like cattle.

I've endured nearly two years of travelling on this route now and to be honest (and I never thought I'd say it) but things seemed to be better with Virgin Trains.

I'm more than happy to add to the campaign.

That's a good idea for a blog but I'd recommend toning down the sarcastic and insulting comments against CrossCountry. It undermines your case.

If you were to state the delays and overcrowding in an objective way and include photos, that'd be sufficient to show the poor service of the franchise. It doesn't require additional colour commentary.

:)

Thanks for your comments on the blog, its much appreciated and all comments are welcome.

The intention of the blog is not to be insulting to CrossCountry, but to be a commentary of mine and my colleagues commutes to work.

Trust me sometimes, theres no room for you to get a camera, or my phone out its that bad.

I used to use it and it was terrible. What used to frustrate me most is that when the cross country trains were particularly overcrowded they would put out an announcement at Leeds station that people for Wakefield and Sheffield shouldn't board the Virgin trains - but they still stopped at Sheffield and Wakefield?????

Loads of people from the virgin trains would try and get onto the local services so they would have to start turning people away ten minutes before the train was due to leave. It was chaotic and awful and the prices were unbelievable.

Good luck with your campaign.

Hi sallylalala,

Trust me it hasnt got any better, as we now get announcements on the train blaming commuters for travelling at rush hour and causing the overcrowding, who should use the other fast yet woefully short formed train.

Andy

This might help back up your arguments:-

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Rail-links-39not-fit-for.3827135.jp

I go by train mon-fri at peak times. I think the trains are generally on time and i havent noticed many cancellations recently. My main gripe is the price and antique trains they (Northern Rail) use- theyre a joke! You never see trains like that down south- there all clean, shiny and new with heating / air con and wireless. Northern Rails look like they pulled them from a breakers yard. Even the conductors sometimes mock them during their welcome announcements. Sometimes we get one with old vinyl bus style bench seats

On the 0751 service there are generally no seats left for people getting on at Barnsley and Wakefield.
On the 1810 cross country service from leeds you have to fight for a seat virtually every day

I cant work out how to get on that blog by the way

It is a woefully inadequate service to Leeds. I know two people who gave the train a serious chance (it should be a good seamless link from here at Malin Bridge to their offices in the centre of Leeds), but found it to be such a horrdendous experience they gave up. My girlfriend didn't just turn her back on the public transport we're continually being told to use, but actually went and bought a car for her commute. She'd dearly love to not have to drive to Leeds every day, and green issues are a concern, but until a train service that provides value for the high fares charged is in place (rather than the third-worldesque current link to Leeds), she'll be on the road.

Complaining to the Arriva Cross Country and Northern Rail won't do any good. You need your MP to raise this with the DFT who set the franchise agreements.

Northern Rail have made no secret of the fact the subsidy they recieve to run what is effectively a loss making network includes no provision for new trains let alone more new carriages for the full length of the franchise. The trains used on Northern are old but still acceptable for the routes they perform on but I doubt you could build carriages to fit them now.

As for Arriva Cross Country they plan to add extra refurbished Intercity 125 trains to their services but as the Intercity 125 replacement programme is still in the bidding phase there are only so many spare 125's to be had.

Trains take along time to build and a fortune to procure so understandable the DFT will want to squeeze the most out of the current stock to ensure taxpayer value.

The trains used on Northern are old but still acceptable for the routes they perform on but I doubt you could build carriages to fit them now.

.

They might be acceptable to you! They were acceptable in the 70's. I want better for £250 month

I have often heard the excuse "stuck behind a local service" when the train has actually left Leeds on time. This can cause delays of 20+ mins for a supposed 42 minute journey back to Sheffield. Surely a timetabling issue?

I don't know about the Leeds routes but I've been caught out by the "stuck behind a slow train" thing more than once going to Manchester. The problem there is that there's nowhere between Sheffield and Chinley where one train can overtake another, so they have to timetable the slow train to leave Sheffield just a few minutes after the fast one, otherwise the following fast one (half an hour later) would catch up with it. But then if the first fast train is more than a couple of minutes late it gets stuck. You can't win.

The campaign im sorry to say is not going to change anything. Why? Because both companies KNOW there is serious overcrowding issues, and are in fact doing things about it.
Crosscountry are getting 5 new trains to supplement their woefully inadequate 'voyagers' which are currently in use. They will be bigger than the current ones and will be in for the Dec 08 timetable change.
Northern have already negotiated a deal whereby some of their horrible old trains are put into storage and newer (but still old,) bigger ones are now on some routes, including 3 car trains which we did not used to have.

Both companies will just apologise and emphasise the fact that they're already doing something about the overcrowding, which they are.

If you really want to blame someone, blame the DFT because it is them who said that the new northern franchise would not be allowed to lease/buy new trains until the current franchise runs out and we therefore have to make do with what we already have and what we have managed to scrounge off other companies. We are doing our best with what we have!

What a ludicrous state of affairs! A business that's not allowed to meet the demand for its services? They should grow some balls and try to start the tender process of actually ordering rolling stock. The publicity exercise of shaming the DFT alone would do wonders for their image and might actually stop people deserting the train network.

What a ludicrous state of affairs! A business that's not allowed to meet the demand for its services? They should grow some balls and try to start the tender process of actually ordering rolling stock. The publicity exercise of shaming the DFT alone would do wonders for their image and might actually stop people deserting the train network.

Why do you think we got the contract? We cant afford new trains! The companies are in it for the money, investing heavily in new trains will not reap short term profits, and since franchises in their very nature are too short, there is no chance of a company buying new trains (or leasing them at a higher cost) unless the DaFT tells them to as part of the franchise agreement. Its bonkers I know, but true.

I don't think that really stands up - if the worry is that they can't be paid for in the franchise period, then two obvious solutions are a) win the next franchise b) lease the rolling stock to the next franchisee (they will presumably need some rolling stock unless they propose to REALLY slash services).
Like I say, the management shouldn't settle for being told they can't buy more trains. That's not right. Of course, the cynical would say the DFT argument you've mentioned is just an excuse to fail to provide a satisfactory service but instead maximise profits.

I know it is a long way off but any ideas what the DEC 08 timetable changes are going to be?

I don't think that really stands up - if the worry is that they can't be paid for in the franchise period, then two obvious solutions are a) win the next franchise b) lease the rolling stock to the next franchisee (they will presumably need some rolling stock unless they propose to REALLY slash services).
Like I say, the management shouldn't settle for being told they can't buy more trains. That's not right. Of course, the cynical would say the DFT argument you've mentioned is just an excuse to fail to provide a satisfactory service but instead maximise profits.

But why should we buy new trains only to have them taken off us at the next franchise changeover? Look what happened to Branson, losing crosscountry was the biggest dis-incentive needed for any train company NOT to purchase new trains. Virgin took that route and turned it from an unreliable, unknown network into one of the most recognised brands in the country. The result? Sorry Mr B, not good enough. Let Arriva have a go instead. The entire system is a joke. What the DFT need to do (which they wont) is to say "Buy new trains, or come to a lease agreement to get new ones, and we will extend your franchise by 10 years."

The whole rail industry is full of bizarre rulings. The trains used to provide the service are no exception.

When a train operator wins a franchise, they have to stick to the terms of their franchise/bid. This could, and clearly does, include the trains or rolling stock they use. So Northern can't just say "bugger you DfT, we're buying more trains", they actually aren't allowed to or they could lose their licence to operate, as ludicrous as that sounds.

The other issue with buying new stock IS the cost. The prices and figures quoted are made up just to highlight how it works, but if a set of new trains cost £100m, it may take the company making that investment say 15 years to see a return on that investment. If their franchise is only 10 years, why would a private, for-profit company spend all that money in the first place given that there is no guarantee the company investing £100m will win the next franchise when the current one expires and therefore stand to lose out on their £100m. As already quoted, look at Virgin Cross Country which lost out to Arriva. National Express/Midland Mainline lost out to Stagecoach. The bidding process is done "blind" so each company has no idea what the others company is offering.

Oh, one other issue with rolling stock is the owners of that stock. Every passenger train in the UK is owned by a bank (or subsiduary of). These include HSBC, Abbey and I think Royal Bank of Scotland. They charge HUGE premiums for the use of their trains. Combine this with the massive costs that TOCs would pay for buying new stock and you have one hell of an expense on your hands - which then comes back to franchise life and all that!

This is just one of the convoluted, bizarre and expensive policies of the privatised railway. Bring back BR and run the railways for the passengers, not the shareholders.

/-\/=/\/\/\/-=

I got fed up with the train and started getting the coach to Leeds. Guaranteed a seat, it is more relaxing and doesn't take that much longer really. The only way to make a real difference is to vote with your feet!!

Can't get on your blog at the moment, but good luck, it's a journey I try to do off peak if possible.

Here's the info on what is planned from Dec http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/AboutCrossCountry/TimetableChanges.aspx
I think there was a report last year that said this line was more overcrowded than most into London. So govt decided to spend money on new lines in....London.

Speaking of which, how about a campaign to improve the service to London.

This was my first week of using the service to comute to Leeds and it was shocking!

Inspired by this post I've sent my complaint by email this morning!

I got fed up with the train and started getting the coach to Leeds. Guaranteed a seat, it is more relaxing and doesn't take that much longer really. The only way to make a real difference is to vote with your feet!!


Is the bus OK? I'm going to give it a go on Monday. Also is there any kind of Season ticket you can buy for the bus?

Is the bus OK? I'm going to give it a go on Monday. Also is there any kind of Season ticket you can buy for the bus?

I think so. I got the 9 o'clock one, which got me in to Leeds just after 10. You are guaranteed a seat, it isn't too busy and is a bit more relaxing than the train. It is also cheaper. I used to book in advance over the internet.

Not sure about season tickets. I would imagine so though.

What a ludicrous state of affairs! A business that's not allowed to meet the demand for its services? They should grow some balls and try to start the tender process of actually ordering rolling stock. The publicity exercise of shaming the DFT alone would do wonders for their image and might actually stop people deserting the train network.


buying stock that they couldn't actually use brilliant ...


the state of the national rail networek is thanks to the abject failure of the last 10 plus years of comrade blairs glorious revolution

I think so. I got the 9 o'clock one, which got me in to Leeds just after 10. You are guaranteed a seat, it isn't too busy and is a bit more relaxing than the train. It is also cheaper. I used to book in advance over the internet.

Not sure about season tickets. I would imagine so though.

Thanks I'm getting the 7.15 one on Monday so I'll post up what it was like!

Thanks for all your comments, its good to see that its not just us that have had enough of the train services, provided to all.

andy

a couple of people have mentioned they can't get onto the OP's site, so here is the link.
http://crapcountrytrains.blogspot.com/

So things haven't got any better then? I had to endure Virgin trains for 6 months when I worked in Leeds. the commute was bad enough, but every single day they were late, cancelled anad overcrowded, and the toilets stank. They never had enough carriages on Fridays either, and as well as passengers having to stand, there were heavy suitcases etc in the way - definitely a breach of health and safety I'd say.

i'd be happy to join any complaints procedures you start. I kept a complaints book in the end!

I was happy to hear that customers on a southern service refused to pay their tickets in protest at the shoddy service a few weeks ago. Why don't you do that, and get it mentioned on national radio.

I was happy to hear that customers on a southern service refused to pay their tickets in protest at the shoddy service a few weeks ago. Why don't you do that, and get it mentioned on national radio.

I'd not advocate this to be honest. In the case of the FGW fare strike, it was decided to let this happen once. I've read that anyone doing this in the future will be treated as fare dodgers and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I do know of a couple of forums that have had suggestions of this taken off, due to it being encouraging law breaking.

Fair point. but would they prosecute everyone? If they improved their services there would be no need for protest. Plus they wouldn't want the bad publicity.

I'd not advocate this to be honest. In the case of the FGW fare strike, it was decided to let this happen once. I've read that anyone doing this in the future will be treated as fare dodgers and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I do know of a couple of forums that have had suggestions of this taken off, due to it being encouraging law breaking.

but would they really prosecuter hundreds of people for this? Surely it would be a PR disaster for the rail company!

but would they really prosecuter hundreds of people for this? Surely it would be a PR disaster for the rail company!


I'll be honest, I have no idea.
I'm just repeating what I read. They granted a one-off day for the strike and informed their guards not to call the Police for that day only.
If you notice, there hasn't been another fare strike in that area, so I'm guessing that it is being taken fairly seriously that they will prosecute.


Oh, and even though I work for a train company, I'm not saying I'm not in favour of public protest. I'm a firm believer in getting the service you pay for, and not a shoddy second rate service.

So things haven't got any better then? I had to endure Virgin trains for 6 months when I worked in Leeds. the commute was bad enough, but every single day they were late, cancelled anad overcrowded, and the toilets stank. They never had enough carriages on Fridays either, and as well as passengers having to stand, there were heavy suitcases etc in the way - definitely a breach of health and safety I'd say.

i'd be happy to join any complaints procedures you start. I kept a complaints book in the end!

I was happy to hear that customers on a southern service refused to pay their tickets in protest at the shoddy service a few weeks ago. Why don't you do that, and get it mentioned on national radio.

The FGW strike action did get the required response in the end, with the government forcing First Great Western to invest in new rolling stock, to the tune of £29m, and the issuing of remedial and breach notices, so in this instance passenger power worked.

However the only problem with a fare strike between Sheffield and Leeds and vice versa, is the ticket barriers at Leeds and the number of train operators that come into Leeds.

We have thought about asking the BBC etc to come down and take a look at the appalling conditions that we endure every day, and is something we are considering.

Regards
Andy

Well I've got the bus all week and to be honest it's been much more reliable and comfortable than the train. It's been late getting into Leeds most days but on time getting back to sheffield.

Biggest advantage is that you get a seat and people aren't pushing past you constantly to get into position to get off or grab the next available seat. If they could sort out the outward journey it would win hands down! It's also a lot cheaper!

Try catching the 1721 train back to Leeds, Jesus your lucky to be able to get on the train never mind find a seat!!!

I've given up trying to catch that train. I have a choice, either try and attempt to catch that train and hope to be able to get on, I know full well if I get on I will be stood for the entire journey. Or I can go to the pub for an hour, and get the later train, guess which option I choose.

As for the Northern rail services, I gave up using them a long time ago. Sometimes I get off at Wakefield cos I have had enough of people standing on your feet, asking you to move when you have nowhere to move to etc

The level of service and number of trains available to the franchisee for the fast services are specified by the Goverment's Department for Transort. The local service is specified and funded by South Yorkshire PTE and West Yorkshire PTE.

Perhaps you should complain to those organisations?

The good news is that from the December timetable change a new Nottingham-Leeds service is to be introduced by Northern, calling at Langley Mill, Alfreton, Chesterfield, Dronfield, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate.

This will mean that the Northern Express to Leeds via Barnsley will be half hourly, add Cross Country's long distance service and that will be three expresses and hour, plus the two local trains - meaning in total 5 trains per hour between Sheffield and Leeds - I would guess that equates to nearly 900 seats per hour!

The level of service and number of trains available to the franchisee for the fast services are specified by the Goverment's Department for Transort. The local service is specified and funded by South Yorkshire PTE and West Yorkshire PTE.

Perhaps you should complain to those organisations?

The good news is that from the December timetable change a new Nottingham-Leeds service is to be introduced by Northern, calling at Langley Mill, Alfreton, Chesterfield, Dronfield, Sheffield, Meadowhall, Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate.

This will mean that the Northern Express to Leeds via Barnsley will be half hourly, add Cross Country's long distance service and that will be three expresses and hour, plus the two local trains - meaning in total 5 trains per hour between Sheffield and Leeds - I would guess that equates to nearly 900 seats per hour!


They were planning this to be added in the new timetable that has just come out, but it never happened apparently down to not enough rolling stock. Hope it does happen this time

If comfort is more important to you than journey time, you may want to consider going from Leeds to Sheffield via Doncaster. Rather than risk the hell that is the 17.11 Leeds-Sheffield voyager, I've started taking the 17.05 NX to Doncaster, which arrives at 17.34 and ties in with the 17.42 TPE to Sheffield, which arrives in Meadowhall at 18.00 or Sheffield at 18.07.
A longer journey, maybe, but you almost always get a seat and the trains are much more comfortable.

However, you can only do this if your season ticket is routed "ANY PERMITTED". The standard Sheffield-Leeds season ticket is routed "NOT DONCASTER", but the "ANY PERMITTED" one only costs a few quid more annually and it's worth it for the increased options.

However the only problem with a fare strike between Sheffield and Leeds and vice versa, is the ticket barriers at Leeds and the number of train operators that come into Leeds.

Ticket barriers would not be a problem, it wrked at Bristol and they have them

This will mean that the Northern Express to Leeds via Barnsley will be half hourly, add Cross Country's long distance service and that will be three expresses and hour, plus the two local trains - meaning in total 5 trains per hour between Sheffield and Leeds - I would guess that equates to nearly 900 seats per hour!

Even if the Northern Express was every ten minutes most people travelling sheffied - leeds - sheffield will still attempt to get the long distance train due to the shorter journey time.

Well a new low was reached tonight. Only four carriages. People having to force themselves on at Wakefield. Crammed in face to face with no room to move along all the aisles and in the vestibules. It culminated in a pregnant woman fainting 10 minutes from Sheffield. Did the onboard staff do anything? Of course not. It was fellow passengers helping her out, giving her water and fanning her. It was an a appalling journey made worse by a 20 minutes delay with no explanation for the delay until just outside Sheffield and no apology for the severe overcrowding. I took photos which I'm about to email to CrossCountry. Other people were emailing from the train. To be honest a fare strike seems like a sensible approach. My previous emails and letters of complaint have had no effect. What else is there to do?

Well a new low was reached tonight. Only four carriages. People having to force themselves on at Wakefield. Crammed in face to face with no room to move along all the aisles and in the vestibules. It culminated in a pregnant woman fainting 10 minutes from Sheffield. Did the onboard staff do anything? Of course not. It was fellow passengers helping her out, giving her water and fanning her. It was an a appalling journey made worse by a 20 minutes delay with no explanation for the delay until just outside Sheffield and no apology for the severe overcrowding. I took photos which I'm about to email to CrossCountry. Other people were emailing from the train. To be honest a fare strike seems like a sensible approach. My previous emails and letters of complaint have had no effect. What else is there to do?

I have already said, your protest will achieve nothing. They are aware of the serious overcrowding issues and are already investing in new trains which will be active come December this year. There is nothing they can do until then, so you may as well grin and bear it and save your time and effort

I've put in a complaint about Cross country, this weekened.

I was livid, absolutely steaming.

I was travelling back from l**ds, I'd booked assistance (ramps etc)

firstly it was a crowded nightmare, suitcases in the way of the wheelchair area, etc.

Got back to Sheffield and there was no-one meeting me with the ramps. there was barely time for the passengers getting off and the ones getting on to do so.

The next thing I know, the doors are closing, my companion is stood on the platform, the other side of the door, looking horrorstruck... and there I am, stuck on the train, carried on to Derby!

I managed to summon the train staff, and alert them to the fact that I'd been left on the train.

I'm unceremoniously bundled off the train in Derby, and rushed through the underpass, onto the train that's about to leave, back to Sheffield.
this train was even more crowded than the previous one, as well as the access to the wheelchair area being crammed with luggage. I spent the entire journey holding onto someone's suitcase which was on the table in the wheelchair area, threatening to fall on me.

I finally arrived back in Sheffield approx an hour-and-a-half later than originally scheduled, feeling very ill, and tired.

I've played pop with the train company. It was a total nightmare. (and my companion was utterly freaked out, and terrified, about me being left behind)

The 18.10 was cancelled at short notice and the delayed 19.10 is late and overcrowded...

I have already said, your protest will achieve nothing. They are aware of the serious overcrowding issues and are already investing in new trains which will be active come December this year. There is nothing they can do until then, so you may as well grin and bear it and save your time and effort

I know. I know but at least it helps me vent some of my anger.

I agree with all your comments about the major shortfalls in the franchising system and know that there are no incentives for companies to invest in rolling stock (or invest in leasing it). I never thought I'd say it but I look back to the times of Virgin trains wistfully. They were crowded but never as bad as this. They generally had more carriages on, often ran double units and for a period leased old Midland Mainline rolling stock (which though old had more seating). Am I right in thinking that when Virgin lost this franchise they took some of the stock with them to the West Coast Line?

I've put in my complaint to CrossCountry. I know its futile but at least it feels like I'm doing something.

Let me just check if there was anything in the Budget about increasing investment in the railways..
...
...
...
No can't find anything.

Think you need to get it in the Daily Mail - that's where the Govt looks for its agenda.

I think so. I got the 9 o'clock one, which got me in to Leeds just after 10. You are guaranteed a seat, it isn't too busy and is a bit more relaxing than the train. It is also cheaper. I used to book in advance over the internet.

Not sure about season tickets. I would imagine so though.

If you book your ticket in advance over the internet for the Cross Country Train you get a reserved seat.

However with the coaches, if it's full and you haven't a reservation, you aren't allowed on. Same situation on the train and you have the option of standing.

The coach would be quieter at 9am, that's after most people have to be at work!

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It's their own fault then. If they choose to be like sheep and all squeeze onto an allready overcrowded train when there's a perfectly acceptable train with seats available a few minutes behind then what can you do?

Perhaps a mandatory reservations policy would solve it?

Am I naive to think that I should be able travel on a train when it best suits me and the circumstances on that day? So if I want to work late I should be able to get a later train. If I want to leave early I should be able to get an earlier one. Do I have to plan a week ahead and then stick rigidly to that, despite any other last minutes changes I want to make? I suppose I'm naive to want a integrated transport system that is for the benefit of passengers that is affordable, convenient and pleasant. I've done this route for two years now I doubt I'll make it to three, maybe not even 2 and a 1/2.

I don't just travel on the CrossCountry route. This morning I got the 8.14 Northern Train. It took longer to get to Wakefield but at least I had a seat (plus the 8.23 was late). I've got the Express Train before to Wakefield Kirkgate. A relatively quick journey let down by the fact it goes to Wakefield Kirkgate - one of the worst stations I've ever been to. Why do we make train travel so difficult and unpleasant in this country. There are some many disincentives to travel on public transport it makes you wonder why people still do it.

Hmm, on a day when an emergency timetable was in operation due to severe weather and people advised not to travel unless absolutely neccessary...

As far as I'm aware that referred to the services operated by National Express and not CrossCountry. I checked this morning before I left and throughout the day. I'll stand corrected but as far as I'm aware this didn't apply to this route. There is no reference to it on the CrossCountry website, the Northern Rail website and the National Rail site referred to the National Express East Coast.

I've been stranded by the trains before due to the weather. If I'm advised not to travel I don't but from what I could see today the warnings didn't cover the route I was travelling on. The 8.14 Northern train seemed to run to time this morning and there were no problems this morning.

If you book your ticket in advance over the internet for the Cross Country Train you get a reserved seat.

However with the coaches, if it's full and you haven't a reservation, you aren't allowed on. Same situation on the train and you have the option of standing.

The coach would be quieter at 9am, that's after most people have to be at work!

You're not a coach fan then!!

I think the thread title is wrong here! Is the problem the overcrowding rather than performance? Us tram users have to contend with packed trams at peak times, equivalent journeys to going to Leeds in terms of time travelling - maybe we should all stop paying in protest too? Don't get me wrong I do sympathise to some extent given the cost of travelling to Leeds vs a tram fare but improvements are on the way. Perhaps railways are following the roads and perhaps there will never be enough investment and capacity for everyone?? More roads, more traffic. More trains, more passengers?!

Just on a separate note, those of you that long for the days of Virgin Cross Country: Arriva Cross Country is staffed, run and managed by the same people and uses the same trains as when it WAS Virgin, just new directors now. So in fairness to XC I don't think they're any better or worse than Virgin, not in my experience so far at least.

Apologies for not posting for a few days but only been in Leeds 1day this week, as ive had a week in Sheffield.

All us commuters are asking for from both Northern and XC is a service fit for purpose, which at present it is not. We have to suffer constant delays, cattle class travel conditions, and staff who blame passengers for overcrowding.. especially commuters:confused:

Ive been on the train before, where people have felt unwell been stood for 1hr+ and its not a good sign, and trust me it'll get worse in the summer, as the aircon stops and the trains become a traveling sauna.

The new trains are due to enter service in December, yet they are not new trains but refurbished 25+ yo trains similar to the ones operated by East Midlands Trains, and from experience of the past 2 years when Virgin Trains had the franchise, you'll be stood up on these as well.

I agree with the idea of a fare strike, although you would have a problem at Leeds Station due to the ticket barriers.

Thankfully ive got another 2 weeks away from our wonderful train system as im working abroad in a civilised country....

Good luck to all those braving the xc service for the next couple of weeks.

Andy

[QUOTE=Eagle_20;3245467] People having to force themselves on at Wakefield. Crammed in face to face with no room to move along all the aisles and in the vestibules.

Ahem... people having to force themselves one?? They choose to do this if the train is arrived and packed don't they??

Again crammed in face to face with no room?? again a choice they made when the train arrived and was obviously full.but THEY still decided to get on..then doubtless moan complain whinge etc.

The same People day in, day out chose to do this, cos they can't, or won't wait for a later/earlier service.That's the problem with a 9-5 working day.. the vast majority of the people turn out at the same time wanting the same train.They know the Cross country service will be packed but still head for it and cram their way on,they choose to travel this way for their own selfish reasons cos they know this service is slightly quicker than the Northern ones

Yes it's a problem that needs sorting agreed,and rail companies need to take their share of the responsibilities but no matter how many extra carriages where put on they'd still be packed, cos once word got round that there were seats to be had and space avilable more people would end up using it then back to square one

This is NOT a unique problem, it happens in rush hours all around the world.London underground anyone??

My other half commutes to Nottingham everyday - nightmare! Two ancient carriages to go all the way from Liverpool to Norwich. I'm submitting some Freedom of Information Act requests about overcrowding on routes - anyone had any bad experiences on particular routes?

Northern Rail services from Barnsley to Sheffield are CRAP, CRAP, CRAP. The so-called fast train gets delayed one morning in five, so the train from Huddersfield gets to Barnsley first, then fills up with passengers who would otherwise be on the fast train from Leeds, resulting in the train being rammed by the time it reaches Elsecar. How many people at Chapeltown have been unable to get on the train to work through it being packed?

My other half commutes to Nottingham everyday - nightmare! Two ancient carriages to go all the way from Liverpool to Norwich. I'm submitting some Freedom of Information Act requests about overcrowding on routes - anyone had any bad experiences on particular routes?

I don't think the FOIA applies to private businesses, although you could try submitting a request to the DfT.

Northern Rail services from Barnsley to Sheffield are CRAP, CRAP, CRAP. The so-called fast train gets delayed one morning in five, so the train from Huddersfield gets to Barnsley first, then fills up with passengers who would otherwise be on the fast train from Leeds, resulting in the train being rammed by the time it reaches Elsecar. How many people at Chapeltown have been unable to get on the train to work through it being packed?

Well, our wonderful SYPTE specifies the service level and funding for this route. It'll be even more fun when the goverment replaces the Huddersfield trains with trams!

Everyone move to your specific destinations where you work? that would save a lot a hassle and also all your poorly little fingers from typing so much!

G.

Everyone move to your specific destinations where you work? that would save a lot a hassle and also all your poorly little fingers from typing so much! Yes, that's the answer. Well done. :loopy: Why did no one else think of that? Another one for the 'ignore' button :D

Yes, that's the answer. Well done. :loopy: Why did no one else think of that? Another one for the 'ignore' button :D

You got enough room on yours? :hihi:

I've not read through this whole thread, but i'm gonna add my rant to it anyway.

I catch the train there and back once a month (yes I know, not that often really). It seems to be the same every time! The journey there is relatively painless (apart from always having to stand in an overcrowded corridor) but the journey back always seems to be the same. I catch the 4.10 usually (not exactly rush hour) and it seems every time I get there and the train is always delayed by 5 mins, then 10 mins, the 15 mins etc. They usually turn up about 20 odd mins late, and never to have enough seats. It seems they always have a carriage missing for one reason or another. I hate to think what it's like at proper rush hour! (Even if I catch an earlier train I rarely get a seat!)

What we need is a fast commuter service straight from Sheffield to Leeds! No stopping, no 1 hour 30 mins journey, or short trains etc. However I'm afraid I have no clue how to go about getting this to happen.

u wont change diddley squat, so just give up trying! thats the truth im afraid. harsh but true?

G.