It has been announced in the local paper today that bus fares are going to rise again with possible cuts in services in the evening.

Unbelieveable! :rant:

Ugh, bus companies are retarded.

Fare increases and service cuts? Will this will get people out of their cars and onto buses?

Hmmm, the plan could still work, and yes...I think that is a pig flying past my window...

I know First Mainline are taking the South Yorkshire public for a ride (literally) but this is going too far.

Read why First Mainline are doing it, and what the response of City Councillors is here.

Fares up as buses axed (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=963044). The article is reprinted below:

BUS fares are to go up in South Yorkshire again - at the same time as transport bosses draw up new plans to slash services.

Managers at First, the county's largest operator, are preparing to announce that the price of single fares is to rise in the next few weeks.

But the fare hikes are to be accompanied by "fairly significant" changes to dozens of services throughout the network, with night services hardest hit.

The plans have provoked anger from councillors who say the cuts are being introduced at short notice.

First is keeping details of the service changes under wraps but The Star understands that around 50 services will be affected in Sheffield, Rotherham and Doncaster.

Around 10 of these will involve buses finishing their run at 9pm, leaving some areas without a late night service. The number 51 service is understood is be on the hit list.

The firm wants to introduce the cuts from April 23 - but councillors are demanding they delay them for several months to try to find an alternative.

Gary Nolan, managing director of First South Yorkshire, told a meeting of the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority the cuts in services were being made because the firm was simply "carting fresh air around" on evening services with no more than a handful of passengers each.

He said: "We have explained that it is not about us trying to get more money out of the system, but trying to free up more resources.

"We have drivers at night who are carrying two or three people on a 90 minute journey. If we continue to do this we are not in a position to operate during the day more reliably."

He added the routes under threat were "not a significant number of services" and said the firm's costs had "risen dramatically" recently.

But councillors expressed widespread unease at the planned price increases and service cuts, with some fearing it could lead to an increase in drink driving as no alternative night buses would be available.

Sheffield Council leader Jan Wilson said: "These changes are being sprung on us. What exactly are we being asked? Increased costs and reduced services?

"The public will find this hard to understand. It will be difficult for us to explain when, having said that we are trying to promote better services, there are less buses instead."

The row comes just weeks after Sheffield Council issued an ultimatum to bus companies to improve services or face the prospect of having their licence to run them taken away from them.

A showdown meeting is due to take place today between the two sides, with managers at First adamant the changes need to be introduced as soon as possible.

Councillors want them to wait until July at least.

SYPTA chiefs say protecting the threatened services would cost around £500,000 in public subsidy - cash they do not have.

Yeah, the Council's and the Government are always banging on about how they want people to use buses more instead of taking cars into City Centres, how the **** are you expected to do this when they keep putting the fares up and making pointless changes to bus timetables?!

WTF are the Council etc smoking here?

Originally posted by Rich
Yeah, the Council's and the Government are always banging on about how they want people to use buses more instead of taking cars into City Centres, how the **** are you expected to do this when they keep putting the fares up and making pointless changes to bus timetables?!

WTF are the Council etc smoking here?

Did you actually read the article? It's not the council who are making these changes, it's First Mainline. The council are objecting to the changes.

Now I just hope that the council make their bite match their bark and revoke First's operating licence, and give our bus services to a more reliable and cheaper operator such as stagecoach.

would handing over the contract to stagecoach mean that they can integrate the tram and bus service and start to get back (FINALLY) to the integrated transport policy we used to have in the 80's till that woman thatcher (spit) destroyed it

if so then roll on the demise of first

dave

Originally posted by ptigga
Did you actually read the article? It's not the council who are making these changes, it's First Mainline. The council are objecting to the changes.

Now I just hope that the council make their bite match their bark and revoke First's operating licence, and give our bus services to a more reliable and cheaper operator such as stagecoach.

No, I missed last night's Star cos we don't subscribe any more :(

I hope they print their revised timetables promptly and give plenty of notice as to which fares are to be increased.

Originally posted by Rich
No, I missed last night's Star cos we don't subscribe any more :(

Neither do I, but I read Abdul's reprint which is ealier on in the thread.

First buses ae a bunch of money grabbing b*stards.

Has anyone else noticed that they have stopped washing the buses as well. So much so that you cannot actually see out of some of the bus windows to see where to get off. Bunch of knob jockeys

Originally posted by d71146
It has been announced in the local paper today that bus fares are going to rise again with possible cuts in services in the evening.

as firstline lose about 100 customers a week due to inconsiderate rude grumpy drivers somehow they have to recover the lost revenue......

Looking back through the article...

Gary Nolan, managing director of First South Yorkshire, told a meeting of the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Authority the cuts in services were being made because the firm was simply "carting fresh air around" on evening services with no more than a handful of passengers each.

He said: "We have explained that it is not about us trying to get more money out of the system, but trying to free up more resources.

"We have drivers at night who are carrying two or three people on a 90 minute journey. If we continue to do this we are not in a position to operate during the day more reliably."

I've just had a thought...does this mean the 52 service will no longer run every 2 minutes :heyhey:

And I've had another thought too.. (wow, two in a single afternoon...)


Sheffield Council leader Jan Wilson said: "Increased costs and reduced services?

"The public will find this hard to understand. It will be difficult for us to explain when, having said that we are trying to promote better services, there are less buses instead."

Will this throw a spanner in the works of the City Councils' little-publicised plan to impose a congestion charge on the city, once the inner relief road completes a neat circle around the city centre? No wonder she's angry with First :suspect:

Originally posted by ptigga
Did you actually read the article? It's not the council who are making these changes, it's First Mainline. The council are objecting to the changes.

Now I just hope that the council make their bite match their bark and revoke First's operating licence, and give our bus services to a more reliable and cheaper operator such as stagecoach.

I thought stagecoach were the same as first, same money, same owners. A change in livery doesn't mean that they won't pull the services too. What we need is (whisper it) regulation.

Oh, and here are some more things we need:

flat fare of 50p for all journeys, so you know what to expect

parking at bus stops to be made illegal, all offenders towed. Then buses won't stop in the middle of the road and wind you drivers up. You make the problems.

bus passes available from post offices/supermarkets and NOT on the buses. So we don't wait for five minutes while the driver wrestles with laminated pouches.

In fact we need conductors at rush hour. You don't pay the train driver when you get on. He's too busy driving the train.

the only bus passes available are for all buses, and kept at a low price by the council

oblige first to change their drivers at the journeys end/bus station. Not mid journey.

a tram network.

what do you think?

Originally posted by tom_common
...here are some more things we need:

flat fare of 50p for all journeys, so you know what to expect

bus passes available from post offices/supermarkets and NOT on the buses. So we don't wait for five minutes while the driver wrestles with laminated pouches.

In fact we need conductors at rush hour. You don't pay the train driver when you get on. He's too busy driving the train.

what do you think?

Great ideas, but lowering fares and paying both driver and conductor for the work currently done by driver alone would seriously hit shareholders returns ;)

I like the idea of towing away the cars of drivers who park in bus lanes. Perhaps this could become self-financing ie, fines pay for the service of removal?

Again, the tram network is a good idea, but S10 don't want it and S5 can't have it :mad:

Originally posted by Abdul


Again, the tram network is a good idea, but S10 don't want it and S5 can't have it :mad:

Lets take the things that are good about trams and apply them to busses. Then we can have pseudo trams. that don't need tracks

Why trams are better than busses

1. Conductors.
2. Regular services on all routes.
3. Reliable: They stick to the timetables.
4. Scheduled trams don't go missing.
5. Conductors always have change for a £20 note.
6. Can get off and on the tram at 4 doors, not just one, means that tram queues aren't as daft as bus queues.
7. Can carry a lot more people than a bus can, and those people can still get to the door when the tram is crowded
8. Weekly tram passes are value for money. Weekly bus passes are not.
9. Full timetables and full fare information at every single tram stop
10. Trams run off the road for part of their route so that they don't get stuck in traffic.

Can we design a bus that provides these ten things? I don't see why not.

Originally posted by ptigga

Why trams are better than busses



You missed out the most important:

Traffic lights greatly favour the trams :rant:

Originally posted by Abdul
You missed out the most important:

Traffic lights greatly favour the trams :rant:

Yup. And the busses are getting similar treatment now, at least on the major routes.

Originally posted by Abdul

Will this throw a spanner in the works of the City Councils' little-publicised plan to impose a congestion charge on the city, once the inner relief road completes a neat circle around the city centre? No wonder she's angry with First :suspect:

What little publicised plan is this? It is so little publicised that none of the councillors are aware of it, least of all the cabinet member for transport. Plus, it has been categorically, and publically, stated, by councillors and officers, that congestion charges would not work in Sheffield and would not be introduced.

Originally posted by max
What little publicised plan is this? It is so little publicised that none of the councillors are aware of it, least of all the cabinet member for transport. Plus, it has been categorically, and publically, stated, by councillors and officers, that congestion charges would not work in Sheffield and would not be introduced.

Here we are, Max. Please check out my post and the supplied link

Link to post (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=220873#post220873)

Link to Sheffield Star article (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=895448)

A MINISTER in Sheffield to start a new road scheme delivered a double whammy to the city's drivers - warning they may face two separate charges to use their cars in future

Max, I hope you are right that Sheffield will not impose a congestion charge, but given the rate at which Council Tax keeps rising, I suspect our Council would jump at the chance of imposing a charge (or two) to increase revenue.

Customers are advised of the following planned service changes scheduled for 25th April 2005

Please note services marked with an asterix are subject to change following further discussion with the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive

SHEFFIELD
Service 1 Will operate Jordanthorpe-Hilsborough, every 30/60 mins. Certain journeys operate to/from City centre, to replace services 701 & 702 (see below). Also change to route, will operate via Norton Avenue. Interworking arrangement with extended ser. 33 (below) to maintain present links Mon-Sat daytime.

Service 2 Withdraw service.

Service 4* Sat-Withdraw 0637 City-Millhouses 0705 Millhouses-City.

Service 7 Timetable change.

Service 12 Mon-Sat-Revised timetable.

Service 20 Timetable change

Service 21 Mon-Fri- Timetable change to revise peak time service.

Service 22* Daily- Withdraw service after 2100 journeys.

Service 28 Minor timetable change and route change, to operate via Weedon Street, Meadowhall Drive and Meadowhall Way.

Service 30 Timetable and route change, to operate via Commercial Street (to Crystal Peaks).

Service 31* Withdraw service.

Service 33 To extend hourly from Norton Lees via Chancet Wood to Jordanthorpe. Journeys to be introduced evenings and Sundays over this section to replace service 1.

Services 44,46 Withdraw services.

Services 45,63 Withdraw services.

Services 47,48 Timetable and route change. Service 47 to operate via Gleadless Road through Heeley and via Shoreham Street.

Service 50 Mon-Fri-Minor timetable change.

Service 51 Daily-Reduce to every 30 mins. after 2100.

Service 57,58* Mon-Sat-Withdraw 2130, 2200 Stocksbridge-City. Sun- Withdraw non-supported journeys.

Service 60 Mon-Fri-Minor timetable change.

Service 80* Mon-Fri-Withdraw 2030 City-High Green-City.

Service 95 To operate Walkley-Birley/ Dyke Vale Rd. (not to Beighton see service 96 below). Birley journeys to terminate on Birley Lane in layby adjacent to tram terminus.

Service 96 New service, City-Beighton (Spinkhill evenings and Sun.)

Service 701 Withdraw service.

Service 702 Withdraw service.

Services 723,732 Timetable and route change, via Queens Road, Heeley Bank Road, East Bank Road, Eastern Avenue and City Road.

Tonight I'm going to buy my £2.80 return ticket which gets me to town and back, last bus back being 12:35am. Town is 11 miles from my house so as you can see the fair is cheap! Oh and it takes only 25 minutes to complete this epic journey. I will be greeted by a friendly upbeat driver who has pointed out the cheapest ticket options for me previously having asked for single fare tickets. The bus will be clean and tidy and will be no more than 2 or 3 minutes late. Why? Because the bus company is Trent Barton, who's senor management should be paid to come and teach that money grabing bunch of scum with it's fleet of rude grumpy drivers how to run the shower of ****e in Sheffield. It beggers beleif that if I move back to my parents (relationship is on the rocks) in nether edge a simple two mile journey will cost only 50p less at best, and be unavailable after 9pm when I can get a bus from Derby to Heanor at 12:35am! Oh and the busses they run on the 22 service appear to be somewhat delapidated since they chose to route them to Wybourn....... I could go on and on and on.....

Originally posted by Andy C


Services 44,46 Withdraw services.


Nice one, that means that here at the other end of Hackenthorpe have lost our last link to Crystal Peaks.

I say the council just don't bother letting Mainline have a chance to sort out the service so they can keep their license, because they're obviously not going to get any better even if they try.

Originally posted by kirky
as firstline lose about 100 customers a week due to inconsiderate rude grumpy drivers somehow they have to recover the lost revenue......

make that 101 because i passed my driving test today!!

I think, we should stand united as Sheffieldders, and do two things:
- Boycott First wherever possible (car or other operators).
- Man hunt. I don't mind returning to the darker ages, and walk around town with a bow and arrows, and fire on sight :p

I think I will have to inform my family that I can no longer go and see them on the weekend, and I will be switching bus company to go to Town, Yorkshire Terrier in mind.

apparently the j later busses only have 3 or 4 people on them? not the 95 or 52 people.

what is this.

What a joke.......

yes all because of the strike last year jo public loses out again fares going up again after they already put up day and weekly passes up services been cut but it doesnt matter to the travlling public cos they have to keep the shareholders happy i own a bus which is preseved and a mate owns 7 presved buses think mite have to get them up to the required standards and apply for a licence to run them

Originally posted by 5_HATS
First buses ae a bunch of money grabbing b*stards.

Has anyone else noticed that they have stopped washing the buses as well. So much so that you cannot actually see out of some of the bus windows to see where to get off. Bunch of knob jockeys


Actually buses are washed every day(night).

Dont know whay you are all bitching about,after all it wasnt too long ago you were all banging on about how you want First off the roads.
Well if this comes off you almost have your wish,all the services that would be cut are services that people dont use,it makes sense to get rid of them.


Enjoy your walk.

Originally posted by tango2
Actually buses are washed every day(night).

somehow I doubt that, have you seent the state of some of them, i find it hard to believe that they can get that grubby over a day...

... or did you mean they wash two or three buses every day?

or maybe you were referring to the insides?

Originally posted by Andy C
Customers are advised of the following planned service changes scheduled for 25th April 2005

Please note services marked with an asterix are subject to change following further discussion with the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive

SHEFFIELD
Service 1 Will operate Jordanthorpe-Hilsborough, every 30/60 mins. Certain journeys operate to/from City centre, to replace services 701 & 702 (see below). Also change to route, will operate via Norton Avenue. Interworking arrangement with extended ser. 33 (below) to maintain present links Mon-Sat daytime.

Service 2 Withdraw service.

Service 4* Sat-Withdraw 0637 City-Millhouses 0705 Millhouses-City.

Service 7 Timetable change.

Service 12 Mon-Sat-Revised timetable.

Service 20 Timetable change

Service 21 Mon-Fri- Timetable change to revise peak time service.

Service 22* Daily- Withdraw service after 2100 journeys.

Service 28 Minor timetable change and route change, to operate via Weedon Street, Meadowhall Drive and Meadowhall Way.

Service 30 Timetable and route change, to operate via Commercial Street (to Crystal Peaks).

Service 31* Withdraw service.

Service 33 To extend hourly from Norton Lees via Chancet Wood to Jordanthorpe. Journeys to be introduced evenings and Sundays over this section to replace service 1.

Services 44,46 Withdraw services.

Services 45,63 Withdraw services.

Services 47,48 Timetable and route change. Service 47 to operate via Gleadless Road through Heeley and via Shoreham Street.

Service 50 Mon-Fri-Minor timetable change.

Service 51 Daily-Reduce to every 30 mins. after 2100.

Service 57,58* Mon-Sat-Withdraw 2130, 2200 Stocksbridge-City. Sun- Withdraw non-supported journeys.

Service 60 Mon-Fri-Minor timetable change.

Service 80* Mon-Fri-Withdraw 2030 City-High Green-City.

Service 95 To operate Walkley-Birley/ Dyke Vale Rd. (not to Beighton see service 96 below). Birley journeys to terminate on Birley Lane in layby adjacent to tram terminus.

Service 96 New service, City-Beighton (Spinkhill evenings and Sun.)

Service 701 Withdraw service.

Service 702 Withdraw service.

Services 723,732 Timetable and route change, via Queens Road, Heeley Bank Road, East Bank Road, Eastern Avenue and City Road.
Is there any info about any cuts in the Rotherham operating area?

Originally posted by tango2
Dont know whay you are all bitching about,after all it wasnt too long ago you were all banging on about how you want First off the roads.
Well if this comes off you almost have your wish,all the services that would be cut are services that people dont use,it makes sense to get rid of them.


Enjoy your walk.

The majority of services running around Sheffield in the evening carry hardly anyone and are not worth running coupled with the fact that buses are damaged and windows smashed nightly costing a fortune to repair a complete revamp of public transport in Sheffield is badly needed.

Damn that means I'll have to walk into work more and get fitter, contributing less revenue to them, thus causing them to cut services even more, causing more people to walk into work/drive, contributing less revenue to them .......

Originally posted by Abdul
Here we are, Max. Please check out my post and the supplied link

Link to post (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=220873#post220873)

Link to Sheffield Star article (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=895448)

A MINISTER in Sheffield to start a new road scheme delivered a double whammy to the city's drivers - warning they may face two separate charges to use their cars in future

Max, I hope you are right that Sheffield will not impose a congestion charge, but given the rate at which Council Tax keeps rising, I suspect our Council would jump at the chance of imposing a charge (or two) to increase revenue.

If you read the article you'll see this quote from the minister:

"However a decision on that is entirely a matter for Sheffield, it will not be imposed by the Government."

and it's already been in The Star that there will be no congestion charges in Sheffield. As for raising more revenue this year's council tax rise will be the lowest ever so there doesn't seem to be a need for extra revenue raising for the foerseeable future.

tango2 you live in cloud cuckoo land the buses are washed every nite no way

the last time i went on the 17 it smelt just like a mobile public convenience they are always filthy in and out.

dont forget folks that first is not the only company in sheffield and also the terrier have clean buses polite drivers and i think in most cases cheaper fares.

regarding the fare increases i reckon it will be the same as usual we might get 3 days if we are lucky.

take care all john

I don't see the point of the alterations to the number 3, (City-Millhouses-City, via Psalter Lane and Ecclesall)

The number 3 is only an hourly service.

There is one bus, allocated to the number 3 (and it's sister route, the number 4) route, daily. This single bus trawls from the city, to millhouses, and back, all day, until the end of service, at night.

Anyone who lives on the route and who has to get to work early, will have to trek a good half-hour walk, uphill to the number eighties routes at ecclesall, or a similar up-to 30-40 minute walk down the hill to the abbeydale road corridor.

Either that, or they will have to go back to using a car, which defeats the object of having public transport.

I am also aghast at the proposals for withdrawal of the service 22, after 2100. What are the bosses at first thinking of?

How will the folks who live higher up the hill along the nether edge corridor mange? Especially the elderly who live in the developments of pensioner flats, up near the old hospital.

Again. it involves a long trek, down the hill. and then the return fight, all the way back up to and from the abbeydale road corridor, which is a good15/20 minute trek from the upper part of nether edge, where I live.

also, what hapens when the local residents want to go into the city centre of an evening, to meet friends, go to the theatre or see a film, have a meal etc...?

Do they meet their friends at, say 7.30 pm, and then, at 8.45 have to say "sorry, I have to leave... I have to catch the last bus at 9pm..." or do they ask the theatre to ensure that the performance , scheduled to end about 9.30/ 10.00 pm finishes for 8.45?

Same thing with the cinema. You'd have to arrange to go to the cinema straight from work, catching the 6pm/ 6.30pm showing in order to have watched an hour and a half/ two hour film and be away to the bus stop before the last bus.

Brandon Jones, of First was at the nether edge/ sharrow/ broomhill area panel meeting on the 6th January, this year.

He was assuring the concerned residents of this area that we were going to get acessible buses back on the 22 route, before the end of this year.

What a crock of *** these promises appear to be.

isn't it weird, folks, that these drastic cuts come so soon on the heels of the alterations to services that we had to endure after the bus strike last year?

It is my belief that the changes last year were designed to cause maximum disruption and make services untenable, in order that First could justify these cutbacks/ withdrawal of the services.

It's totally ridiculous.

If the bus company are complaining about under-use....

What the heck are they doing with the money they recieve as a subsidy from the Passenger Transport Executive, to support services in deprived, or isolated areas, and "under-used" services?

the whole point of the subsidies are to KEEP THESE SERVICES RUNNING. (pt begins beating her head against a wall)

I know I have focused on the 2 routes nearest me. That's because I have first-hand knowledge of those routes.

I am sure that the situation is going to be identical in other affected areas.

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
I don't see the point of the alterations to the number 3, (City-Millhouses-City, via Psalter Lane and Ecclesall)

The number 3 is only an hourly service.

There is one bus, allocated to the number 3 (and it's sister route, the number 4) route, daily. This single bus trawls from the city, to millhouses, and back, all day, until the end of service, at night.

Anyone who lives on the route and who has to get to work early, will have to trek a good half-hour walk, uphill to the number eighties routes at ecclesall, or a similar up-to 30-40 minute walk down the hill to the abbeydale road corridor.

Either that, or they will have to go back to using a car, which defeats the object of having public transport.

I am also aghast at the proposals for withdrawal of the service 22, after 2100. What are the bosses at first thinking of?

How will the folks who live higher up the hill along the nether edge corridor mange? Especially the elderly who live in the developments of pensioner flats, up near the old hospital.

Again. it involves a long trek, down the hill. and then the return fight, all the way back up to and from the abbeydale road corridor, which is a good15/20 minute trek from the upper part of nether edge, where I live.

also, what hapens when the local residents want to go into the city centre of an evening, to meet friends, go to the theatre or see a film, have a meal etc...?

Do they meet their friends at, say 7.30 pm, and then, at 8.45 have to say "sorry, I have to leave... I have to catch the last bus at 9pm..." or do they ask the theatre to ensure that the performance , scheduled to end about 9.30/ 10.00 pm finishes for 8.45?

Same thing with the cinema. You'd have to arrange to go to the cinema straight from work, catching the 6pm/ 6.30pm showing in order to have watched an hour and a half/ two hour film and be away to the bus stop before the last bus.

Brandon Jones, of First was at the nether edge/ sharrow/ broomhill area panel meeting on the 6th January, this year.

He was assuring the concerned residents of this area that we were going to get acessible buses back on the 22 route, before the end of this year.

What a crock of *** these promises appear to be.

isn't it weird, folks, that these drastic cuts come so soon on the heels of the alterations to services that we had to endure after the bus strike last year?

It is my belief that the changes last year were designed to cause maximum disruption and make services untenable, in order that First could justify these cutbacks/ withdrawal of the services.

It's totally ridiculous.

If the bus company are complaining about under-use....

What the heck are they doing with the money they recieve as a subsidy from the Passenger Transport Executive, to support services in deprived, or isolated areas, and "under-used" services?

the whole point of the subsidies are to KEEP THESE SERVICES RUNNING. (pt begins beating her head against a wall)

I know I have focused on the 2 routes nearest me. That's because I have first-hand knowledge of those routes.

I am sure that the situation is going to be identical in other affected areas.

PT

Yes the no 22 is a very important service - I often use it to go into/out of town of an evening - it serves an area of nether edge to town that no other bus does - stopping it after 9pm this is madness and must be stopped - opens up more people to dangers of assaults etc at night when walking home - we cant all afford inflated taxi prices !

Patrick.

I totally agree with you about the increased risk of assault etc, if people (especially females, the elderly or diabled) have to trek even further to engage with bus services/ routes.

The street-lighting in this area is not great, especially where the older housing is.

I already have to make plans for expeditions when I wish to go out, as there are no accessible services in my area (I live by psalter lane). so I have to wheel my chair past the number 3/ 4 bus route, down the hill, past the number 22 route, and onto the abbeydale road / london road corridor. which takes me over 20 minutes, till i can engage with a bus that has wheelchair ramps on it.

that, as I said, is a 20 minute journey.

It only takes me 25 minutes, to wheel directly down Cemetery road round by Waitrose, to Moorfoot. or to where I work. near Devonshire Green, it's illogical.

I have to freeze, half to death, in weather like this, because I cant access an inclusive bus service. it's not so bad, in the summer, as the weather makes it a pleasant little "walk". It's not as pleasant, when its driving rain, snowing, or bitter cold.

what we need is

a frequent, reliable, and most of all, an inclusive (Ie accessible), public transport network

which will reduce pollution, and encourage people out of their cars.

PT

If you read the entry for route 22 closely, you will see First are trying to get SYPTE to subsidise them to continue running the 22 after 9pm. It's a blatant wheezey scam to get the tax payer to make them more profitable!

First have pulled the same stunt on some routes into Derbyshire, where Derbyshire County Council have had to step in to pay for replacement buses to avoid areas getting cut off - although on principle Derbyshire always give the gig to a different operator.

SYPTE have said they simply don't have the money.

Originally posted by d71146
Is there any info about any cuts in the Rotherham operating area?

Here is the Rotherham information, which includes the 69 Rotherham-Sheffield no longer running at all on Sundays.

ROTHERHAM
Service 7* Cancellation of Sunday service from 2030 hrs

Service 10* Cancellation of all journeys from 2115 Mon-Fri

Service 11 12* Cancellation of 2 journeys Sat am

Service 13A Re-time sole journey by 5 minutes.

Service 16 Reduction in am peak

Service 29* Cancellation of Sat 0728 C/Peaks-Roth & 0838 Swallownest-Roth.

Service 34 Reduction in M-F interpeak frequency from 15 to 20 minutes. Withdrawal of link to Whiston village.

Service 66* Cancel the following: M-Sat 2147 2247 ex Roth; Sat all commercial journeys prior to 0800; Sun all commercial journeys. M-F 1715 & 1725 journeys replaced by one at 1720

Service 69* Saturday frequency reduction 0800-1000. Cancellation of entire Sunday service.

Service 106 107 New commercial services to Rawmarsh

i wish people would read the full posting on the first web site it says

*Subject to change following further discussion with the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive

this * is before most route numbers


some of the changes might not happen

as for the cleaning of buses yes the are washed out side every night the insides are cleaned on a monthly system i think dont forget they have over 400 buses in one garage
if you think i bus is smelly or unclean ring first and tell them
on 01709566000 im sure they will do something if you tell them as they dont listen to the drivers

Originally posted by shefflad
i wish people would read the full posting on the first web site it says

*Subject to change following further discussion with the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive

this * is before most route numbers


some of the changes might not happen

In the unlikely event that First con the Transport Executive to start paying a subsidy for an existing commercial service to continue...

If First wish to swing the axe on these services it will have to give details to the VOSA by mid March if the timetable changes are to start by the end of April. ( i.e 42days notice required).

The only thing First seem to have learnt is that has given the customer some advance notice of its plans for a change.

First seem to have no new ideas of marketing its product(bus services/price offers) has it looked at sponsers? mail every house with details of the services etc. if it wants NEW customers it has to be pro active and not just leave it to the PTE to pick up the bill.

My own view is that It should bring back LIMITED STOP EXPRESS services on key routes and supplement this with connecting Neighbourhood Services. For Example In the North of Sheffield it could operate an Express service (Every 15 mins daytime/30 min evening)to Stockbridge with stops only at City Centre/Hillsborough/Oughtibridge then all stops to Stocksbridge. At Hillsborough you would have services waiting for the Express service to arrive then serve the various areas of S5 and S6.At Morning/Evening Peak direct Neighbourhood services would operate to City
Also have Local Brand names for these EXPRESS SERVICES like the Porter Express/Sheaf Express/Mosborough Flyer.

I have a guess that a bus requires around 15/20 customers(£15/£20) per hour to break even. My rough costings are £7/£9 per hour for driver with several years service the other £8 to £11 covering fuel/road tax/RRE/Garage services/Office overheads and of course a profit margin.

Originally posted by silverknight
If First wish to swing the axe on these services it will have to give details to the VOSA by mid March if the timetable changes are to start by the end of April. ( i.e 42days notice required).

The only thing First seem to have learnt is that has given the customer some advance notice of its plans for a change.

First seem to have no new ideas of marketing its product(bus services/price offers) has it looked at sponsers? mail every house with details of the services etc. if it wants NEW customers it has to be pro active and not just leave it to the PTE to pick up the bill.

My own view is that It should bring back LIMITED STOP EXPRESS services on key routes and supplement this with connecting Neighbourhood Services. For Example In the North of Sheffield it could operate an Express service (Every 15 mins daytime/30 min evening)to Stockbridge with stops only at City Centre/Hillsborough/Oughtibridge then all stops to Stocksbridge. At Hillsborough you would have services waiting for the Express service to arrive then serve the various areas of S5 and S6.At Morning/Evening Peak direct Neighbourhood services would operate to City
Also have Local Brand names for these EXPRESS SERVICES like the Porter Express/Sheaf Express/Mosborough Flyer.

I have a guess that a bus requires around 15/20 customers(£15/£20) per hour to break even. My rough costings are £7/£9 per hour for driver with several years service the other £8 to £11 covering fuel/road tax/RRE/Garage services/Office overheads and of course a profit margin.

New ideas would cost them money they dont like spending money.

Originally posted by silverknight
If First wish to swing the axe on these services it will have to give details to the VOSA by mid March if the timetable changes are to start by the end of April. ( i.e 42days notice required).

The only thing First seem to have learnt is that has given the customer some advance notice of its plans for a change.

First seem to have no new ideas of marketing its product(bus services/price offers) has it looked at sponsers? mail every house with details of the services etc. if it wants NEW customers it has to be pro active and not just leave it to the PTE to pick up the bill.

My own view is that It should bring back LIMITED STOP EXPRESS services on key routes and supplement this with connecting Neighbourhood Services. For Example In the North of Sheffield it could operate an Express service (Every 15 mins daytime/30 min evening)to Stockbridge with stops only at City Centre/Hillsborough/Oughtibridge then all stops to Stocksbridge. At Hillsborough you would have services waiting for the Express service to arrive then serve the various areas of S5 and S6.At Morning/Evening Peak direct Neighbourhood services would operate to City
Also have Local Brand names for these EXPRESS SERVICES like the Porter Express/Sheaf Express/Mosborough Flyer.

I have a guess that a bus requires around 15/20 customers(£15/£20) per hour to break even. My rough costings are £7/£9 per hour for driver with several years service the other £8 to £11 covering fuel/road tax/RRE/Garage services/Office overheads and of course a profit margin. dont forget there used to be a express service to stocksbridge it was the x66/67 it ran stopping only at certain stops as far as stockarth lane then all stops to stocksbridgealso there where other express services which where branded under the fasline name with daul purpose buses that used to run eslewhere from sheffield

hat's right, sammy

There were fastline services to Mosborough (halfway) which i think was the X29 and/or X 30...

the other ones i can remember are:-

Harthill and Spinkhill also had fastline routes. (x 27?)

doncaster to sheffield, via rotherham used to be the X77 & X 78.

(there were out-of town routes to leeds/ bradford, though these were not necesarily mainline routes, which were the x32/x33)

PT

Ah happy days of Fastline Express services. I am sure Stocksbridge people would rather have the old x66/67 then the current replacement 58 which diverts at Oughtibridge and goes around Worrall then back to Hillsborough before into city! Hardly attractive to New customers.
Maybe time to set up a Buswatch passenger group to represent us paying customers at BOSSY ( bus operaters serving South Yorkshire)meetings. Is it worth doing a poll on the Forum .... Would you like LIMITED STOP/EXPRESS services back? YES or NO

I didn't realise that the 58 served the old 65 route around oughtibridge, I had heard that teh x66/7 had been changed, but not living out at Stocksbridge, for the longest time, Ihavent used them.

the 58 used to follow the 57 route as far as the town centre of Stocksbridge, then turned off up toward the garden village and sports centre as per the old X66.

so isn't there a bus that serves the village of Bolsterstone, now?

The X67 used to go up to "the Stoo-unne" (the 'stone) once an hour between about 0830 and 1800. The X66 ran, from 0745, from Stocksbridge to Sheffield. The last one back from Sheffield to Stocksbridge, was at 2150, neither of which start/ finish times were any good to those of us who were on shifts.

Indeed, I barely used to make it to work for 0900 when I lived out there, the 0745 rarely got into sheffield before 0900/ 0915. It was a nightmare.

I think I have mentioned before, on here; the journey on the 381 "tracky bus" between Stocksbridge and Barnsley ran the same distance as the route to Sheffield, approx 10 miles, yet could get to barnsley in 45 mins over the tops through penistone etc. Iif you chose the Sheffield bus, it took about 55 mins to an hour, into Sheffield even when the roads were clear, so, often, i would go to Barnsley, in preference to Sheffield, to shop because of the shorter journey times.

PT

Bolsterstone is now provided with the daytime hourly 201 service with just 2 morning/afternoon peaktime journeys of diverted 58's showing 58A which don't operate via Worrall.The journey is allocated 51 minutes and the 201 is allocated 62 minutes.

When the X66/X67 were withdrawn by First a couple of years ago the Stocksbridge and Deepcar Estates were divided between rerouted 57/58's

Originally posted by matthewluck
somehow I doubt that, have you seent the state of some of them, i find it hard to believe that they can get that grubby over a day...

... or did you mean they wash two or three buses every day?

or maybe you were referring to the insides?

I know this to be fact,,,so doubt all you like and yes in the current weather conditions they do get that grubby during the day.

At night the driver parks the vehicle up and then its taken through the wash and filled with fuel for the next day.

Originally posted by jmrweb
tango2 you live in cloud cuckoo land the buses are washed every nite no way

the last time i went on the 17 it smelt just like a mobile public convenience they are always filthy in and out.

dont forget folks that first is not the only company in sheffield and also the terrier have clean buses polite drivers and i think in most cases cheaper fares.

regarding the fare increases i reckon it will be the same as usual we might get 3 days if we are lucky.

take care all john

Stop talking out of the top of your head,,,I repeat they are washed every night at olive grove,,,go there and see for your self then come back and wind your neck in,,,moron

04/03/2005 Fare Change

Customers are advised that First are currently considering an annual change to adult single fares only this Spring.

As you can see it states that they are considering the rise,and not that its all doom and gloom like The Star makes out.

After all print the true facts and people wont have anything good to read.

However I think the day savers should be scrapped and fares replaced with a flat fare system like that of the centro.

One fare no matter how far you travel.

Originally posted by tango2
04/03/2005 Fare Change

Customers are advised that First are currently considering an annual change to adult single fares only this Spring.

As you can see it states that they are considering the rise,and not that its all doom and gloom like The Star makes out.

After all print the true facts and people wont have anything good to read.

However I think the day savers should be scrapped and fares replaced with a flat fare system like that of the centro.

One fare no matter how far you travel.

I would be much happier with the fares as they stand if the weekly and monthy passes were cheaper. The weekly tram passes are priced fairly. The weekly bus passes are extortionate.

I'm moving to a new job in a month's time and I'll be using the busses instead of the tram. The distance to be travelled is about the same, but I'll be paying more per week for a less reliable and less frequent and less convenient service.

Originally posted by ptigga
I would be much happier with the fares as they stand if the weekly and monthy passes were cheaper. The weekly tram passes are priced fairly. The weekly bus passes are extortionate.

I'm moving to a new job in a month's time and I'll be using the busses instead of the tram. The distance to be travelled is about the same, but I'll be paying more per week for a less reliable and less frequent and less convenient service.


Independent reliability monitoring data by SYPTE shows First well above the national average achieving over 90% of journeys being no more than 1 minute early or 5 minutes late (5485 observations in last 8 months)



So its not all as bad as people say.

Originally posted by tango2
Independent reliability monitoring data by SYPTE shows First well above the national average achieving over 90% of journeys being no more than 1 minute early or 5 minutes late (5485 observations in last 8 months)



So its not all as bad as people say.

Maybe the independent monitors don't monitor the busses during the moring or afternoon rush hours.

The Last rise on standard single fares was 27th March 2004 so is due for annual review.Where First make make the mistake is apply a different annual review on weekly/monthly tickets so gives the impression to none regular bus users that fares go up more regular i.e you get headlines fare increase again. By the way Yorkshire Terrier are increasing its day ticket To £2.20 and weekly to £8.50 from next week

Regarding Flat Fares system those that travel short distances complain that its expensive compared to those travelling long distance. However First could always try a six month trail on Flat Fare systems or a zonal fare system i.e travel within one zone is say £1 travel and travel between two is £1.50. I think if the weekly ticket was £10 it would be better as it would save drivers looking for either £3 change if given £15 or £8 if given £20 on the current fare of £12.

I'm glad the fares are going up and that there will be fewer buses clogging up the roads - lets us motorists get our roads back !!!

Not all bad news then :)

The budget is only weeks away so your motoring taxes may increase.We await your moans then!!!

Originally posted by NJMUK
Tonight I'm going to buy my £2.80 return ticket which gets me to town and back, last bus back being 12:35am. Town is 11 miles from my house so as you can see the fair is cheap! Oh and it takes only 25 minutes to complete this epic journey. I will be greeted by a friendly upbeat driver who has pointed out the cheapest ticket options for me previously having asked for single fare tickets. The bus will be clean and tidy and will be no more than 2 or 3 minutes late. Why? Because the bus company is Trent Barton, who's senor management should be paid to come and teach that money grabing bunch of scum with it's fleet of rude grumpy drivers how to run the shower of ****e in Sheffield. It beggers beleif that if I move back to my parents (relationship is on the rocks) in nether edge a simple two mile journey will cost only 50p less at best, and be unavailable after 9pm when I can get a bus from Derby to Heanor at 12:35am! Oh and the busses they run on the 22 service appear to be somewhat delapidated since they chose to route them to Wybourn....... I could go on and on and on.....

£2.80 return being cheap? FirstDay is £2.50

Originally posted by ptigga
Maybe the independent monitors don't monitor the busses during the moring or afternoon rush hours.

Rush hour traffic cannot be timetabled for, its too uneconomical and impractical - i would assume this is where most of the 90% of journeys comes from.

Originally posted by Alex C.
Rush hour traffic cannot be timetabled for, its too uneconomical and impractical - i would assume this is where most of the 90% of journeys comes from.

Why not? The rush hours happen every single day. It's not a freak occurance. Yet every day in the morning rush hour three 95 busses will follow each other nose-to-tail down the road into town. Even a 5 year old could think of some solutions to this problem. Why can't First?

Originally posted by Alex C.
£2.80 return being cheap? FirstDay is £2.50

A Firstday is £3.00, reduced to £2.50 after 9am. This is the cost on First for a return journey from Nether Edge to Sheffield City Centre, a distance of only about 2 miles.

The Trent Barton £2.80 return is for Heanor to Derby City Centre, a distance of 11 miles.

So if you divide those prices by 2 for the single leg, and work out the price per mile:
Trent Barton = 12.75p per mile
First = 62.5p per mile off peak, 75p per mile peak time.

Originally posted by Andy C
A Firstday is £3.00, reduced to £2.50 after 9am. This is the cost on First for a return journey from Nether Edge to Sheffield City Centre, a distance of only about 2 miles.

The Trent Barton £2.80 return is for Heanor to Derby City Centre, a distance of 11 miles.

So if you divide those prices by 2 for the single leg, and work out the price per mile:
Trent Barton = 12.75p per mile
First = 62.5p per mile off peak, 75p per mile peak time.


But on the same note,you can board a First Bus with the very same £2.50 Off peak saver in....lets say Dore and travel all the way to Doncaster and back to Dore.
You can undertake this Journey as many times as you wished during the day.

Originally posted by ptigga
Why not? The rush hours happen every single day. It's not a freak occurance. Yet every day in the morning rush hour three 95 busses will follow each other nose-to-tail down the road into town. Even a 5 year old could think of some solutions to this problem. Why can't First?

Yes the solution is simple....the rush hour will still be there,so get rid of two of the 95s leaving one on the route,cram all the people from the three 95s onto one.
This will free up two vehicles to get stuck somewhere else in the city,but there will be a close sense of community on the 95.

If the lead bus is late due to traffic its obvious that following vehicles will at some point catch it up.


Its not as simple as saying First this and First that,First only provide the services,they dont provide the rest of the traffic or the roads.

Originally posted by tango2
Yes the solution is simple....the rush hour will still be there,so get rid of two of the 95s leaving one on the route,cram all the people from the three 95s onto one.
This will free up two vehicles to get stuck somewhere else in the city,but there will be a close sense of community on the 95.

If the lead bus is late due to traffic its obvious that following vehicles will at some point catch it up.


Its not as simple as saying First this and First that,First only provide the services,they dont provide the rest of the traffic or the roads.

As for what you say about cramming everyone from the 95's onto one bus; that's what does happen. You get one full bus and two empty busses following it.

OK, Here's a simple solution: When the three 95s inevitably get stuck together at the end of their run to walkley, they don't all set off together on the return leg, but instead wait for 15 minutes between each bus, that way you don't get three busses together and then none for the next 45 minutes.

It's worth noting that you can almost always rely on the Yorkshire Terriers (123) to turn up when scheduled. They manage to keep to their 1 every 20 minutes schedule even in the rush hour.

There's many other solutions, such as First putting extra busses on in the rush hour and introducing conductors at peak times to speed up loading. First aren't interested because this cuts into their profits. If there were significant financial penalties for running late services then they may be encouraged to look at measures to improve them.

Stagecoach seem to be spot on. Rush hour trams carry 2 or 3 conductors (instead of just 1) to help collect all the fares. Yes that's more staff to pay, but it's also more fares collected.

Originally posted by Alex C.
£2.80 return being cheap? FirstDay is £2.50

For 1 22 mile round journey!!

Originally posted by Andy C
A Firstday is £3.00, reduced to £2.50 after 9am. This is the cost on First for a return journey from Nether Edge to Sheffield City Centre, a distance of only about 2 miles.

The Trent Barton £2.80 return is for Heanor to Derby City Centre, a distance of 11 miles.

So if you divide those prices by 2 for the single leg, and work out the price per mile:
Trent Barton = 12.75p per mile
First = 62.5p per mile off peak, 75p per mile peak time.

Trent Bartons DayRider is £3.50

Which proves what exactly? That is a two mile journey... may be the usual for you but I travel nearly 8 miles a day on one bus, usually followed by a 10 mile return trip on the 17 - total... 36 miles... working out to around 3p per mile. or 4p off-peak

Not that i'm too fussed, I use my £9 travelmaster to travel on trains, trams and buses all week long...

Originally posted by tango2
Stop talking out of the top of your head,,,I repeat they are washed every night at olive grove,,,go there and see for your self then come back and wind your neck in,,,moron

I can confirm also that the buses are washed every night,but when the weather is cold then the wash is not used due to the fact it ices up,just like when you take your car to a car wash!

Originally posted by tango2
But on the same note,you can board a First Bus with the very same £2.50 Off peak saver in....lets say Dore and travel all the way to Doncaster and back to Dore.
You can undertake this Journey as many times as you wished during the day.

Yes, but who in Dore would want to travel all the way to Doncaster? They just want to go into town, whether for work, shopping or a night out. There should be a reasonably priced return ticket for these journeys.

In the Nether Edge to City example, anyone buying a Firstday ticket is actually being ripped off, as 2 singles are cheaper!

Originally posted by Alex C.
Trent Bartons DayRider is £3.50

Which proves what exactly? That is a two mile journey... may be the usual for you but I travel nearly 8 miles a day on one bus, usually followed by a 10 mile return trip on the 17 - total... 36 miles... working out to around 3p per mile. or 4p off-peak

Not that i'm too fussed, I use my £9 travelmaster to travel on trains, trams and buses all week long...

In the Trent Barton example, we are not talking about an all day rider - we are talking about a return ticket, for one journey into town and one back again.

In Sheffield you are forced to buy an all day ticket since First withdrew returns, which effectively put the fares up by at least 50%.

I repeat what i said before the buses are filthy inside not just one but 99% of them on the 17.
but tango2 if you read my message properly i said the 17 and they aint from olive grove there from the rotherham depot so read before you start calling people morons.

its now about time that another company started running against first in this town and then maybe services may get better.

john

Originally posted by ptigga
As for what you say about cramming everyone from the 95's onto one bus; that's what does happen. You get one full bus and two empty busses following it.

OK, Here's a simple solution: When the three 95s inevitably get stuck together at the end of their run to walkley, they don't all set off together on the return leg, but instead wait for 15 minutes between each bus, that way you don't get three busses together and then none for the next 45 minutes.

It's worth noting that you can almost always rely on the Yorkshire Terriers (123) to turn up when scheduled. They manage to keep to their 1 every 20 minutes schedule even in the rush hour.

There's many other solutions, such as First putting extra busses on in the rush hour and introducing conductors at peak times to speed up loading. First aren't interested because this cuts into their profits. If there were significant financial penalties for running late services then they may be encouraged to look at measures to improve them.

Stagecoach seem to be spot on. Rush hour trams carry 2 or 3 conductors (instead of just 1) to help collect all the fares. Yes that's more staff to pay, but it's also more fares collected.

Regarding you simple solution here is the problem with your little plan,As the 95's serves Dyke Vale Road,Birley and Beighton at the other end of the city,i do not think that the passengers waiting in town to catch their bus to these destinations will be impressed if they are told that they are waiting for 15 minutes up at walkley so not to upset people at Walkley by running together. And also what if the driver is due to come off for his break,if he waiting at Walkley for 15 minutes so not to upset you then he will be late for his break then he will have to have an adjustment on his first trip after his break which means you may find a 95 missing.

Regarding putting on conductors where are these people coming from to fill the positions,considering they can not get enough drivers and even the all mighty Tram can not fill all their vacancies.

As for the can do no wrong Yorkshire Terrier i dont see many of them around of a night time and all day on a Sunday. And come April when First cancel a lot of services at night time,before you slag them off think to yourself will Yorkshire Terrier run them instead? I doubt it,if it does not make money.

At the end of the day First is a commercial company which is in the business of making money for its shareholders just like alot of the peoples employers on this forum are.If anyone is to blame for the current state of the buses there are plenty of people to blame

1 Tories for introducing the system.
2 Labour for keeping it.
3 Sheffield City Council(gives priorty to the Trams at lights etc but sod the bus).
4 Car drivers for parking in Bus Stops and driving down Bus lanes.
5 Passengers not having correct fare ready(when they have been waiting at the stop long enough apparently!!)
6 If a First service does not make a profit then the SYPTE should fund it,if they say they can not afford it,then they should spend less on Staff(have you seen how many walk around the Bus Station doing sod all!)
7 Tell kids to stop putting windows through which is highly dangerous but seams to be excepted by the police and nothing gets done to sort the problem out.I bet a fare proportion on cancellations at night are due to windows being put through.

Regarding the Tram i caught it twice at rush hour last week,both times i had to stand all the way to Gleadless,not once did i see a conductor and a Chystal Peaks we had to get off and catch the one behind on both Wednesday and Thursday,so I have started to catch the 41 instead,at least you get a seat and dont get chucked off half way through the journey!

Regarding the 95 ask yourself this question would you prefer to see three 95's together with Birley,Dyke Vale Road and Beighton on their destination boards running late,Or would you prefer to see one with one of the said destinations on it and the other two with the words'Sorry not in service' i think i know what the answer would be!

Life is not Black and White.

Originally posted by Andy C
Yes, but who in Dore would want to travel all the way to Doncaster? They just want to go into town, whether for work, shopping or a night out. There should be a reasonably priced return ticket for these journeys.

In the Nether Edge to City example, anyone buying a Firstday ticket is actually being ripped off, as 2 singles are cheaper!

I would'nt say you are being ripped off as they are not forcing you to buy one.If you are try the Trading Standards Dept at the Council.

Originally posted by jmrweb
I repeat what i said before the buses are filthy inside not just one but 99% of them on the 17.
but tango2 if you read my message properly i said the 17 and they aint from olive grove there from the rotherham depot so read before you start calling people morons.

its now about time that another company started running against first in this town and then maybe services may get better.

john

There is another company it's called Yorkshire Terrier.

And all Buses are washed everynight except when the weather is icy for obvious reasons like it has been for the last few weeks.

Black ice in a bus depot not good!Health and safety issue.

Originally posted by Andy C
Customers are advised of the following planned service changes scheduled for 25th April 2005

Please note services marked with an asterix are subject to change following further discussion with the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive

Service 20 Timetable change





Andy C - can you confirm what is meant by timetable change? The 20 replaced the 34 route. The 34 used to be every 20mins during the day (when it bothered to turn up) and then only 1 an hour after 6pm ish. The 20, was a much improved service with a bus every 10 mins during the day and 1 every half hour in the evening.
Does timetable change mean very slight amendments, more frequent, or going back to less frequent?
If you know this info please let me know.

Cheers.

Originally posted by unners
There is another company it's called Yorkshire Terrier.

And all Buses are washed everynight except when the weather is icy for obvious reasons like it has been for the last few weeks.

Black ice in a bus depot not good!Health and safety issue.

I can confirm that all Rotherham buses out of the Midland Road Garage are washed and swept out EVERY night without fail with regards to the 17 the interiors do get rather untidy at times but if the public were not so untidy and use the bus as somewhere to just throw down their old rubbish the problem would to a certain degree stop.

Originally posted by unners
I would'nt say you are being ripped off as they are not forcing you to buy one.If you are try the Trading Standards Dept at the Council.

That fact that there is no competition implies mostly the opposite for most that don't have their own transport.

As for the trent barton example. Most people in Heanor and such places need to travel a long way to work. Most people in Sheffield / Docaster and Rotherham do not. If they do bonus the prices can reflect good value but 90% of people only travel a few miles so as far as representing the majority of consumers, it'll be said again- RIP OFF!

Originally posted by Foxxx
Andy C - can you confirm what is meant by timetable change? The 20 replaced the 34 route. The 34 used to be every 20mins during the day (when it bothered to turn up) and then only 1 an hour after 6pm ish. The 20, was a much improved service with a bus every 10 mins during the day and 1 every half hour in the evening.
Does timetable change mean very slight amendments, more frequent, or going back to less frequent?
If you know this info please let me know.

Cheers.

Sorry - all the information I posted was copied off the First website!

Originally posted by unners
I would'nt say you are being ripped off as they are not forcing you to buy one.If you are try the Trading Standards Dept at the Council.

OK, get on the bus and ask for a return to town and see what you get sold!

Went for a 53 this morning (these buses are scheduled to run every 10 mins) and ended up waiting for 40 mins. Guess what followed the 53 when it eventually did turn up?

Yup - 2 more of 'em. About 4 people on the 2nd 53 (2 of these First Mainline staff) and no one on the 3rd 53.

I'm a Broadcast Journalism student at the university and I'm doing a feature on the bus service. I've just interviewed Jan Wilson and someone from First Buses, but I'd like to speak to a representative from a passenger group. I'm wondering if there is such a thing? Have any of you heard of a Sheffield/south yorkshire passenger group?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by Andy C
Yes, but who in Dore would want to travel all the way to Doncaster? They just want to go into town, whether for work, shopping or a night out. There should be a reasonably priced return ticket for these journeys.

In the Nether Edge to City example, anyone buying a Firstday ticket is actually being ripped off, as 2 singles are cheaper!

Well yes I agree with the fact that there should be return tickets again.

Originally posted by ptigga
As for what you say about cramming everyone from the 95's onto one bus; that's what does happen. You get one full bus and two empty busses following it.

OK, Here's a simple solution: When the three 95s inevitably get stuck together at the end of their run to walkley, they don't all set off together on the return leg, but instead wait for 15 minutes between each bus, that way you don't get three busses together and then none for the next 45 minutes.

It's worth noting that you can almost always rely on the Yorkshire Terriers (123) to turn up when scheduled. They manage to keep to their 1 every 20 minutes schedule even in the rush hour.

There's many other solutions, such as First putting extra busses on in the rush hour and introducing conductors at peak times to speed up loading. First aren't interested because this cuts into their profits. If there were significant financial penalties for running late services then they may be encouraged to look at measures to improve them.

Stagecoach seem to be spot on. Rush hour trams carry 2 or 3 conductors (instead of just 1) to help collect all the fares. Yes that's more staff to pay, but it's also more fares collected.

Yes extra buses and conductors would provide a solution,but this would result in a rise in the fares to pay for it all so we would be back to the start of this thread.

Originally posted by jmrweb
I repeat what i said before the buses are filthy inside not just one but 99% of them on the 17.
but tango2 if you read my message properly i said the 17 and they aint from olive grove there from the rotherham depot so read before you start calling people morons.

its now about time that another company started running against first in this town and then maybe services may get better.

john


You Said "tango2 you live in cloud cuckoo land the buses are washed every nite no way

the last time i went on the 17 it smelt just like a mobile public convenience they are always filthy in and out.

dont forget folks that first is not the only company in sheffield and also the terrier have clean buses polite drivers and i think in most cases cheaper fares."



See the word SHEFFIELD,or did you forget putting that in?.
I fail to see the word Rotherham,at least try and remember what you posted.

How can you repeat what you said when what you have posted here is totaly different.
Nowhere in your post did you state that 99% of no 17s were filthy.

well tango2 according to your post you know something about first
when you saw the 17 you should have known that they are serviced by rotherham and also i put in my post that they are always filthy.

Originally posted by tango2
Well yes I agree with the fact that there should be return tickets again.

Glad you agree on that!

The All day tickets are good value if you are travelling on multi-leg journeys, or a long distance, but not for the more common trip into town.

The thing about First is they are really sneaky, and get people paying a lot more over time by moving people between ticket types.

For example, from Bradway to town most people used to buy singles, but they were persuaded to buy returns that committed them to using First bus after they put the singles up and kept the returns reasonable - it was £1.30 single or £1.80 return.

They then withdrew returns and made people buy FirstDay tickets instead, at £2.50 compared to £1.80.

Since then the Firstday tickets at peak time has gone up to £3.00, meaning it is now cheaper to buy two singles at £1.45 a piece, so everyone has moved back to singles.

And guess what - singles are going up now!

So whilst individual fares have gone up only once a year and by a justifiable amount, the reality for the passenger is different.

Originally posted by jmrweb
well tango2 according to your post you know something about first
when you saw the 17 you should have known that they are serviced by rotherham and also i put in my post that they are always filthy.

Yes I know this,,but you said Sheffield not Rotherham.
So by saying there are other bus companies in Sheffield with clean buses,you were making a reference to Sheffield buses.

Originally posted by Andy C
Glad you agree on that!

The All day tickets are good value if you are travelling on multi-leg journeys, or a long distance, but not for the more common trip into town.

The thing about First is they are really sneaky, and get people paying a lot more over time by moving people between ticket types.

For example, from Bradway to town most people used to buy singles, but they were persuaded to buy returns that committed them to using First bus after they put the singles up and kept the returns reasonable - it was £1.30 single or £1.80 return.

They then withdrew returns and made people buy FirstDay tickets instead, at £2.50 compared to £1.80.

Since then the Firstday tickets at peak time has gone up to £3.00, meaning it is now cheaper to buy two singles at £1.45 a piece, so everyone has moved back to singles.

And guess what - singles are going up now!

So whilst individual fares have gone up only once a year and by a justifiable amount, the reality for the passenger is different.

The trouble is they have not yet stated how much the singles will rise by.
I saw a post earlier in relation to Zonal fares,this would be a better idea for example town area 30p as is now town to hillsborough £1.00 then when in the area addopt the same centro fare and so on.

Originally posted by tiffy
Went for a 53 this morning (these buses are scheduled to run every 10 mins) and ended up waiting for 40 mins. Guess what followed the 53 when it eventually did turn up?

Yup - 2 more of 'em. About 4 people on the 2nd 53 (2 of these First Mainline staff) and no one on the 3rd 53.

this happened from PX at around 10-30am today

I was on the one with the two staff at the front (one was driver-training methinks) - but the wait was absolutely ridiculous, i've lost £30 EMA because of it.

Originally posted by Alex C.
this happened from PX at around 10-30am today

I was on the one with the two staff at the front (one was driver-training methinks) - but the wait was absolutely ridiculous, i've lost £30 EMA because of it.

EMA?

Originally posted by ptigga
EMA?

Money I get for going to college - I couldn't get to the lesson on time so I lost it for this week

Originally posted by Andy C
Glad you agree on that!

The All day tickets are good value if you are travelling on multi-leg journeys, or a long distance, but not for the more common trip into town.

The thing about First is they are really sneaky, and get people paying a lot more over time by moving people between ticket types.

For example, from Bradway to town most people used to buy singles, but they were persuaded to buy returns that committed them to using First bus after they put the singles up and kept the returns reasonable - it was £1.30 single or £1.80 return.

They then withdrew returns and made people buy FirstDay tickets instead, at £2.50 compared to £1.80.

Since then the Firstday tickets at peak time has gone up to £3.00, meaning it is now cheaper to buy two singles at £1.45 a piece, so everyone has moved back to singles.

And guess what - singles are going up now!

So whilst individual fares have gone up only once a year and by a justifiable amount, the reality for the passenger is different.

As you say, the all day tickets don't even net you a saving on your commutes. It's cheaper to buy a single there and single back. Even if you buy the weekly tickets (£12) then it's still cheaper to get single fares for those ten journeys a week. Contrast that to Stagecoach where I can buy a weekly ticket for £8 (which is less than one single fair a day) Singles are £1.30) and I can use the tram as much as I like all week. I'm even lazy enough to use it to get to my favourite sandwich shop at lunchtime because it doesn't cost me any more.

I agree that the First busses cover a bigger area than the tram and have more routes, but there's only so many I can use in a day. The tram is also far more convenient for the routes that it does cover.

if its mainline buses i am not suprised at that as they used to run buses in dronfield but charged a lot more than the other companys so no one used them and as a result the withdrew there buses so if you want to send them a message then use a different bus company

Originally posted by bruciej
I'm a Broadcast Journalism student at the university and I'm doing a feature on the bus service. I've just interviewed Jan Wilson and someone from First Buses, but I'd like to speak to a representative from a passenger group. I'm wondering if there is such a thing? Have any of you heard of a Sheffield/south yorkshire passenger group?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. As far as suggestions go, you'll find everything we commoners want (and we will get it or First will go the way of the dinosaurs).

Originally posted by d71146
The majority of services running around Sheffield in the evening carry hardly anyone and are not worth running coupled with the fact that buses are damaged and windows smashed nightly costing a fortune to repair a complete revamp of public transport in Sheffield is badly needed. I bed your pardon.
There might not be many people on those buses, but those who are reeeeaaally need them.
Buses are a public ammenity, not a private mode of transportation. we pay for it to run with few people who rely on them. First don't get that and think they can make big bucks everwhere when you cannot with bus services and they'll run a a deficit which is fine as it is doing the job we're paying for.

That or we have a car, which I don't

I find it difficult to believe no-one is using the 22 at night. Perhaps it might be more appropriate to carry on running evening services but at a lower frequency and with smaller buses.

As long as they don't touch the 81 or the 82 I'll be pleased... Those services are unreliable as it is without further bastardisation by First.

I think generally bus services in Sheffield are pretty good considering the circumstances.

I get the bus to and from work almost every day, usually 2 buses each way, and I generally don't have too many problems.

I can see room for improvements, but I know the limitations, like I know if I try and go to work for 9am or leave at 5pm its going to be horrendous traffic, so I get up early and finish early.

Yes, first are a greedy nasty company, but show me a big company that isn't.....

Perhaps route 3 evening journeys could be re-routed via Nether Edge to replace the 22?

Perhaps route X78 could be diverted via Attercliffe on Sundays to replace 69?

Are any alternatives being considered to replace those areas cut off?

Originally posted by Yodameister
Yes, first are a greedy nasty company, but show me a big company that isn't.....

First seem to be running the business into the ground.

Most big companies would be looking at ways of growing the business as well as keeping costs under control.

First are doing a lot of pruning but no growing.

What are First doing to grow passenger numbers, therefore grown revenue? Any innovations or inititiaves? New routes to tap into demand not yet catered for? Any changes to bus routes to make them more attractive?

An interesting start was the Bradway route - in the evenings and Sundays they got rid of a 25A running every 30 minutes and replaced it with a 53 running every 20 minutes, with a later last bus, and through journeys to the good pubs and leisure facilities in the Kelham Island and Hillsborough areas. This as well as improving operational efficiencies is bringing passenger benefits, and if it went into the City Centre proper rather than the Interchange would attract many more passengers.

They should be looking at this sort of thing in other areas.

If they cannot justify a dedicated bus for Nether Edge after 9pm, divert another route through the area. How about after 9pm the 97A becomes the 97B and goes via route 22 to Nether Edges then drops back down onto Abbeydale - the 97A is duplicated by the 75/76 on this section of Abbeydale Rd anyway.

Had a thought about it and decided that First are a bad company - I still disagree with comments about their drivers, but the company in general seems bad.

Anyway, three questions have come to mind recently regarding buses in Sheffield.

1) Why is it that if I wait for the 53 on Queens Road (opposite McD's) going into town, there is always (in a year of waiting at that stop) a bus coming from town first... there is usually a bus after 15-20 minutes, but not another one behind it. Every other stop i've ever used for 53 seems reliable, but this one seems Jinxed. Is traffic worse in the south of the city? I usually catch it from stops north.

2) Thinking about bus bunching, it makes sense why it happens. Bus A runs late, has more passengers to pick up slows down, Bus B runs to time, has the same number of passengers, and eventually bus A falls back to start playing leapfrog with it, Bus C has no passengers to pick up because of this and zoooooms away until he meets the other two buses in front.

If for example in this situation, Bus A was 'Xpressed' to town, meaning it stopped to drop people off only, would this result in complaints? i'd be annoyed if the X53 passed me and I then had to wait 15 mins for the next 53 (that would be picking up two loads of passengers at this point)

Any other solutions to the problem? I can't really think of any

3) I went on the perfect bus journey on Friday night. Caught the 53 from town to parson cross. Timetabled time: 30 minutes. Time taken: 27 minutes. Never left a stop late, and did a steady 15 mph for the journey. In contrast, a few days before, it made the run in 12 minutes.. getting me home 15 minutes earlier. Would you rather buses were fast or reliable?

Maybe more later... my viewpoints slightly changing after the ridiulousness of the last few days.

Alex

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
I bed your pardon.
There might not be many people on those buses, but those who are reeeeaaally need them.
Buses are a public ammenity, not a private mode of transportation. we pay for it to run with few people who rely on them. First don't get that and think they can make big bucks everwhere when you cannot with bus services and they'll run a a deficit which is fine as it is doing the job we're paying for.

That or we have a car, which I don't

Yes, they are a public service, but you cant argue against fare rises and then say that those services are paid for by the general public. They are now a private business, a bad decision, but one that has to be worked around.

Further to Abdul's (much) early post, I've driven from town up to Broomhill today and seen no fewer than eight 52 buses on my journey. The sum total of passengers I counted was 29. Admittedly, there may have been some very short passengers or maybe some people lying down who I couldn't see. I still think there are WAY too many 52s running off-peak.

If First are telling us the evening useage is that bad would services after say 1900hrs be better if we had a evening network something along the lines of the old 901-917 nightliner network era? These were mainly several daytime routes combined to form a circlular route.

Originally posted by silverknight
If First are telling us the evening useage is that bad would services after say 1900hrs be better if we had a evening network something along the lines of the old 901-917 nightliner network era? These were mainly several daytime routes combined to form a circlular route.

And have the running until 3am on Friday and Saturday nights.... like they used to!

Originally posted by Yodameister
I think generally bus services in Sheffield are pretty good considering the circumstances.

I get the bus to and from work almost every day, usually 2 buses each way, and I generally don't have too many problems.

I can see room for improvements, but I know the limitations, like I know if I try and go to work for 9am or leave at 5pm its going to be horrendous traffic, so I get up early and finish early.

Yes, first are a greedy nasty company, but show me a big company that isn't.....

couldnt have put it better myself.

In this day and age,buy a TV and get ripped off,but some clothes and get ripped off,do your food shopping get ripped off,car tax,fuel,rent,mortgages,loans,council tax,income tax.

This list could be endless,every minute of every day of your life,guess what?,you are being ripped off.
The strangest thing is we put up with it,money is what motivates the world we live in,the more we have the more we want and the more we have the more others want it from us.
They will dangle whatever carrot they can in front of us to draw us in,the sad fact is that it works.
We all follow like lemmings and go along with it....Why?,because they know we will,they know we are weak and envy others that have what we dont.

So isnt the cost of Bus Fares somewhat trivial?.

One of the things lacking her is understanding of the system in hand.
As passengers most just spend a short time on a Bus,a snap shot of the bigger picture if you like.

Surveys,forums,questionaires are all well and good for the sake of arguments.
Maybe the forum would provide some voulenteers to spend a full day on a bus to gain a true picture of what actualy goes on out there.

Maybe time for Gary Nolan First SY to come on the Forum Interview pages to hear our ideas and questions.

Originally posted by silverknight
Maybe time for Gary Nolan First SY to come on the Forum Interview pages to hear our ideas and questions.

Thats a good idea but can't see that happening though.

Originally posted by d71146
Thats a good idea but can't see that happening though.

I cant either

And no 22 bus will cease after 9.00pm. GREAT!

I'm a student. I recently went to visit my friend in Manchester. It was £2.00 for a weekly ticket. I cried.

First have confirmed that Single Fares will increase on Saturday 19th March 2005. The following are the current Single with the NEW PRICES IN BRACKETS 80p ( 85p) ; £1.10 (£1.20) : £1.40 (£1.50) ; £1.70 (£1.80) £2.00 (£2.10) Travel Adda 80p (85p) The 60 minute SWITCHA £1.80 (£1.90). NO CHANGE to other fares like First Hop or Centro ticket or first Day. first week.

Will be interesting to see if the other bus operators follow suit...

my £1.10 (now £1.20) fare used to cost 80 pence a few years ago. It is getting silly.

Firsts website says that adult fares are to rise from Saturday 19th March.
80p will be rising by 5p
Anything over a £1 will be going up by 10p

I am so glad I don't drive these things around and take the flack for First shareholders any more.

a 10% increase for anything over £1 - thats scandilous!!!!

WTF?! :rant:

First are moronic retards.

Council - "lets get people out of there cars and onto buses"

Yeah right -while they permit first to keep on doing this they are never going to get people out of there cars!!!

This was confirmed on the other topic thread Bus fares going up soon last week!

Its stupid, why are the always going up?.....can any1 remeber wen they went on strike?...and when they came bake to normall service they lowered all there all day savers to £2 - did they get scared that no one was going to use busses anymore?

Well I suppose it's official now. I'll definitely be driving my 4x4 into the city centre everyday now.... and with only me in it. Fools at the Council delivering foolish policies. I might go and buy some shares in First though!

Well this hasn't persuaded me to give up the car.. Its actually cheaper for me to drive in and keep the advantage of discount parking :D

Good on Ya First... Keep the customers happy :suspect:

It doesn't appear to affect me. From what I read on the other thread it's only single fares that are going up. The First Day remains the same price :)

I decided when I became a student again that I'd go in to uni on the bus instead of being lazy and taking my car... however, I soon worked out that at no less than £2.50 a day busfare it was cheaper to take the car, its quicker, costs less and I can park near to uni for free :D
busfares going up again just means they are pushing me more to the car and less towards public transport, keep going, i love my lil car :p

My first thought when I read that thread title was "what, AGAIN?!" I love travelling on the bus and the tram but if I get the bus to work it costs me the wages of about 20 minutes work.

You'll not see an increase in your £2.50 a day bus fare according to Silverknight Em

Here's the link (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31302&perpage=15&highlight=bus%20fares&pagenumber=8)

& for those who hadn't spotted it before:

First page of the thread on bus fares (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31302&highlight=bus+fares)

If you are a student in the Sheffield Area you can get big discounts on fares if you buy a student weekly ticket or even bigger savings if you buy a terms worth of travel. For details check the web site www.firstgroup.com and look under students. If you are travelling daily it could work out at just over a £1 a day on a term ticket.

Originally posted by Siân
You'll not see an increase in your £2.50 a day bus fare according to Silverknight Em

Here's the link (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31302&perpage=15&highlight=bus%20fares&pagenumber=8)

& for those who hadn't spotted it before:

First page of the thread on bus fares (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31302&highlight=bus+fares)

give it about 3 weeks and they will go up

Its already above £2.50 if i want to travel before 9am, which i do have to, i also don't travel in every day so it makes the weekly ticket just as bad. For the price of a day saver ticket I can get 30 miles in my car.... what would you do????

In your costings have you added up everything ?(tax,insurance,parking.repairs etc.)as on the AA website a typical cost for a user up to 5000 miles a year works out at 51p per mile and a 30000 mile user is 22p per mile.Most companies use the AA motoring costs table when paying employees use of their own car during work time.

I considered the fact that whether I used the bus or not I'd be paying the same amount of road tax and the same amount of insurance on my car, I also park in free places so there is no extra cost there. There may be a little more wear and tear on my car at the end of the day, but I consider it worth it when I gain usually at least an hour every day (I have to leave myself an hour to get into uni by bus, by car I only need half an hour) and as a student, an extra hour's study time a day is a valuable thing!!
It was a very considered decision and I did take a while to weigh up how much I would be paying week by week, in the end the car won!
Em

Originally posted by em3978
I considered the fact that whether I used the bus or not I'd be paying the same amount of road tax and the same amount of insurance on my car, I also park in free places so there is no extra cost there. There may be a little more wear and tear on my car at the end of the day, but I consider it worth it when I gain usually at least an hour every day (I have to leave myself an hour to get into uni by bus, by car I only need half an hour) and as a student, an extra hour's study time a day is a valuable thing!!
It was a very considered decision and I did take a while to weigh up how much I would be paying week by week, in the end the car won!
Em

I don't blame you. I suspect that it's this problem with First's ridiculous ticket prices that is causing most people to stay in their cars.

Out of interest, where are you driving into uni from, and which uni and which campus are you driving to?

I'm driving from Parson Cross (Barnsley road/Ecclesfield end of Parson Cross) to the city centre as I'm at the archaeology dept on West Street.

Takes me 10 mins to drive thru to city centre, the spare 20 mins is for parking and walking down to West Street. The bus (75 or 76) takes a minimum 30 mins in good traffic and I still have to walk about the same distance as I would from my car.

Em

Between Dore and Sheffield City Centre the train is much cheaper than the bus and also much quicker - take a look!

BUS FARE (new prices)

Single £1.50
First day, peak time £3.00
First day, off-peak £2.50

TRAIN FARE (went up to current prices in January)

Single £1.40 (10p cheaper than bus)
Day return, peak time £2.20 (80p cheaper than bus)
Day return, off peak £1.50 (£1.00 cheaper than bus)

JOURNEY TIME
Bus: 20-40 minutes
Train: 7-10 minutes.

Just a shame the trains aren't more frequent.....

Originally posted by tango2
Actually buses are washed every day(night).

they are at halfway garage not at olive grove due to the new washes down at olive grove where it takes at least 4 mins to wash 1 bus,they don't have the time to wash all buses

Update on the First SY cuts to services. Tonight 18/03/05 I have looked the VOSA web site and First have registered all the listed services in its press release. So unless the PTE step in during the next couple of weeks the cut backs will happen w/c 25th April.

i cant believe that they are raising them again.there fleecing us enough.they wont even let children on the busses for 40p without a bus pass.ad now there raising them again.they have already raised them from 35p.how much do they want to take of us:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

Originally posted by cheeky_gee
i cant believe that they are raising them again.there fleecing us enough.they wont even let children on the busses for 40p without a bus pass.ad now there raising them again.they have already raised them from 35p.how much do they want to take of us:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

40p is peanuts, has to be subsidised MASSIVELY by us taxpayers, so it is only right that you prove you are entitled to it!

Anyway, the concessionary fare isn't going up.

I think it's time Stagecoach started filling the gaps and putting pressure on.

How about a new Stagecoach service that goes from Rotherham to Sheffield via route 69, then Sheffield to Nether Edge via route 22, continuing down onto Abbeydale Road and perhaps via route 293 to Bradway and Dronfield.

Rotherham-Magna-Meadowhall-Arena/Stadium-Attercliffe-Sheffield City Centre-Nether Edge-Abbeydale-Millhouses-Beauchief-Greenhill-Bradway-Dronfield Woodhouse-Dronfield

running every 30 minutes during the daytime 6am to 6pm, then hourly up to midnight.

It would compete with First during the day, and provide people with the only bus service in the evening and on Sundays.

Dronfield would also be handy for Stagecoaches Chesterfield depot.

Originally posted by JonJParr
Well I suppose it's official now. I'll definitely be driving my 4x4 into the city centre everyday now.... and with only me in it. Fools at the Council delivering foolish policies. I might go and buy some shares in First though!

It was Maggie Thatcher that deregulated the bus services. Remember? The council doesn't operate the buses. The council recently did a bus consultation exercise 'Have Your Say' with the travelling public. This highlighted considerable dissatisfaction with cuts in services, price increases, unreliable services, buses failing to turn up, etc.

So JohnJParr, please get your facts right before carping on about the council "delivering foolish policies".....and maybe you'll acknowledge that the council is on the side of the travelling public.

Woodseats to City Centre Stagecoach charge 90p. On the new fares First are now charging £1.20.

Stagecoach routes 43,44,253,747 operate through Woodseats, down Chesterfield Road, Bramall Lane, Eyre Street into Sheffield Interchange.

So use these instead of First and save 30p every time!

If you live in Mosborough you also have a Stagecoach alternative - the 50 & 53.

Also you can buy a Stagecoach dayrider ticket that includes the tram for £2.70, or a weekly Megarider costs £9.

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/chesterfield/

The £1.10p single from Nether Edge into town is now gone up to £1.20 - this is absolutely scandalous !!

And you have no alternative from Nether Edge either - other than walk down to Abbeydale Road for a Yorkshire Terrier or TM Travel bus!

From Darnall the train is now quite competitive with First bus now, in terms of speed and price:

Journey time from Darnall to Sheffield is 9 minutes.

Return fare:

peak time £2.30 (before 09:30 mon-fri)
Off peak time £1.60 (all other times)

Single fare is £1.50.

Woodhouse to Sheffield by train is reasonable too:

Journey time: 14 minutes

Peak time return fare £2.80
Off peak return fare £2.00

Single fare £1.80.

From Chapeltown to Sheffield the train fares aren't much better than the buses, but the journey is faster:

Journey time: 16 minutes

Peak return fare £3.10
Off peak return fare £2.20

Single fare £2.00

Note also from Chapeltown there are other bus companies operating such as Stagecoach and Yorkshire Traction.

Read the news in early March that First will rise the single fares. Has it rised already? How much they increased the fare?

Mod: threads merged.

I see that Yorkshire Terrier and Supertram have put up notices this week informing us of an increase in fares... so back to square one.