The news story can be found here (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030920/80/e8z3t.html).

A US solider kills a bengal tiger because it mauled another solider. The fact that the soliders were having a party at the zoo and decided it would be fun to hand feed a wild beast.

I strongly urge everyone to complain to the US Government by clicking 'contact' here (http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact.shtml)

I suppose it makes a change from killing their own people.

Or killing ours

Or Iraqi policemen.....

Someone on another forum made the interesting point that this could be seen as a metaphor for the US behaviour around the world...

This is very symbolic and that is why it gets news and discussed endlessly. A bound animal lashes out at American soldier when it feels threatened by the unfamiliar and misunderstood encroachment of the soldier, who was playing "look at the dumb purty animal." After it lashes out, soldier's brother in arms react swiftly and decisively to end the situation. And tensions and resentments rise. This is a metaphor for some of the typical problems of occupation, with occupiers acting condescendingly to the locals who misunderstand heavy handed but naively good hearted actions as a threat and lash out, only to find themselves on the working end of an M16 when things get out of hand. The fact that this was an endangered animal born in the zoo who couldn't get out of Iraq or the war zone no matter how much he wanted merely adds another nice layer to the metaphor.

Most of these cats were Uday's. He probably liked the feeling of power granted to him by his big deadly pets, sort of like the guy who must own a pit bull in the states. How different were the motivations of the soldiers wanting to drink and party in the presence of the rare Bengal Tiger? Knowing how the military views such blunders of decorum that get made hopelessly public, I bet the fellas will truly be sorry this ever happened.

And people have the cheek to criticise out football hooligans! US troops are just the same but with guns - and less brains.

Complaint made!

What exactly is it that your complaining about though? is it the fact that a tiger was killed or is it the fact that the soldier was stupid enough and allowed by his superiors to get this close to them?

It's hard to tell what exactly happened from that report. If my buddy was been torn apart by a tiger I would have shot the tiger also to save their life.

Clearly whoever is in command is not carrying out their responsibilities by letting these kind of incidents happen, in which case this needs looking at.

My complaint was that the American military cannot display professionalism and respect while on active duty.

This is obviously evident by the fact that they are in a zoo after it has close to have a 'party' and the fact that soldier is attempting to feed the tiger when i'm sure it against the rules anyway.

Also the tiger is doing what is gut instinct, and that is to attack the food source. The soldier is 100% to blam IMHO.

Hence, I have complained!

The point is the Americans should not be in Iraq, not to mention in the zoo at night.

How much longer is the world going to tolerate them as the 'worlds policemen'? Our country's siding with America has put us very high in the list of top terror spots. I don't see Germany, Ireland or France in that list. Blair is needlessly putting our lives at risk all because of an outdated 'friendship'.

Operation Telic - the occupation of Iraq - is supposedly a short term operation, yet the plans are to occupy Iraq for years.

I am not an Iraqi and I despite the American occupation - how do the Iraqi feel when the US are shooting their tigers and policemen and civillians?

I sympathise with the victims of 9/11 but with things like this happening, the US only have themselves to blame when they are despised and attacked.

:x shoot the ****ing solider who did this i would :evil: People won't be happy until all the tigers in the world are gone :cry:

Originally posted by alchresearch
The point is the Americans should not be in Iraq, not to mention in the zoo at night.

How much longer is the world going to tolerate them as the 'worlds policemen'? Our country's siding with America has put us very high in the list of top terror spots. I don't see Germany, Ireland or France in that list. Blair is needlessly putting our lives at risk all because of an outdated 'friendship'.

Operation Telic - the occupation of Iraq - is supposedly a short term operation, yet the plans are to occupy Iraq for years.

I am not an Iraqi and I despite the American occupation - how do the Iraqi feel when the US are shooting their tigers and policemen and civillians?

I sympathise with the victims of 9/11 but with things like this happening, the US only have themselves to blame when they are despised and attacked.

It's going to be years. It's a bit late to think about pulling out now considering the state the country is in.

The trouble with the middle east is that the fundamentalists see themselves as one nation and not individualistic as we see ourselves.

By going it alone the UK/USA isolated themselves and left themselves vulnerable if things went wrong.

If only the rhetoric was not so harsh pre war with their prolonged attacks on both the UN and France/Germany then the asking the UN for help would be so much easier.

As it is IMO, the Bush administration want UN help but do not want to be seen to be saying they were wrong and so are doing it half cocked.

The aftermath planning by the UK and the USA was pathetic.

In 4 months hospitals have still not got full running power/fuel is in desperate supply if you are iraqi the country has completly been looted of all its resources by themselves.

A lot of Iraqis are disatisfied with what is happening resulting in many soldiers dying.

Now it seems many arabic terroists have moved into Iraq and seem intent on escalating the attacks.

I have no solutions to this myself as if a clamp down is enforced then more attacks by Iraqis will be the result, and if a more tolerant policy is adopted then outsiders will have a free hand to instigate more attacks.

Lack of training in the aftermath by soldiers trained for war but not peacekeeping is to blame.

I know the American military would never allow it but I feel British officers who have had years of experience in Northern Ireland would be much more use in commanding operations and instructing US troops. Soldiers are taking flak through something they cannot respond to with full force and it is them who I feel sorry for and blame the politicians of both UK and USA for putting them in that position while covering there own backsides non stop.

Perhaps you might want to consider this when you come face to face with Blair in the voting booth?

Originally posted by Lickszz

By going it alone the UK/USA isolated themselves and left themselves vulnerable if things went wrong.

Perhaps you might want to consider this when you come face to face with Blair in the voting booth?

Put Australia up there with them, as Howard jumped in with both feet, eyes closed, and with no regard for the consequences. Mind you, I saw it, on his part, as a political stunt to take the electorate's mind off the stuff-ups he is making at home. But isn't that the politicians' way - the Romans used circuses, now we use wars.

When a chemical or nuclear or aircraft attack hits London and kills thousands and people then ask 'why', I only hope they remember all the pro-war propaganda "The Sun" was peddling and how our elected leader decided to stand in this situation.

We are fighting a war against an enemy we cannot see, an enemy who has no home country.

It's exactly why I hate Americans as a group of people!! Complaint made!

Originally posted by Agent Dan
It's exactly why I hate Americans as a group of people!! Complaint made!

Which is one of the worst forms of bias. The fact is that hundreds of thousands of Americans demonstrated against the war, and many still are. Blaming the whole group for the actions of a few is not exactly intelligent reasoning.

My cousin lives in Colarado and my godparents live in Manhatten so I'm not speaking about all americans - just that they seem to be particularly stupid when in large groups!! There's a psych theory called 'groupthink' which means people feel invincible in groups which have had lots of previous success. The american military programme (and some of their schooling) adds to this tremendously, and is often cited as the cause of such random acts of unecessary violence - the bay of pigs disaster is a classic.

So you're right - it is a terrible form of bias, AND illogical reasoning - but until they change their [political] world view, and start to "give a damn" about other countries and people, I'm not going to change my mind!!

(rant over!)

*Beware: blatantly unamerican, bad-tempered rant. Avoid if possible*

America is the Kevin the Teenager of the world: 'young, dumb and full of c*m.'
It combines immature ideals and a giant sense of self-importance with guns and a mission to *save the world*.
It's youth are brainwashed into believing in the absolute rightness of anything America does. Many of them are taught that the rest of the world is a dangerous place packed with Hitlers and other scary monsters waiting to steal their precious "freedom". Yet they don't have a clue what freedom means - from the day they are born they are made to repeat their Pledge of Allegiance daily, they are fed by a media of fear and xenophobia rather than of knowledge, many are taught that to stand up for 'alternative' or unconservative ideals may well be anti-American. And there can be no worse crime to an American - not even genocide.
It isn't surprising at all that they behave with such a blatant disregard for any other interests than their own. They literally do not have/ have not gained the grown-up skills of diplomacy, co-operation and tolerance.
They are the teenagers of the world, but they have an arsenal, and the rest of the world is watching helplessly as they wave their guns around like the bullies they've grown into.
We (the rest of the world) have to watch because we've given them permission to behave like this for so long that we've suddenly realised they're too big for a good smack on the a*se. Which is a pity cos they're clearly flailing about at the moment, in over their heads, and at a total loss. But like all ineffectual parents, all we have left to do in the end is stand about and tut and say where did it all go wrong.
What a tragedy.
_________________

:lol: Wouldn't be the same if I didn't take up the chance to have a pop at americans.

:banana: (applause)

Glad someone agrees with me - eloquently put!!

Sounds like much of the youth in the UK, except for the pledge of allegience, which in the UK is to some football club instead of a flag.

Exactly! Only america has military power and nuclear weapons!:o

Sorry, I'd have to disagree. Britain does not have the luxury of existing in a vaccuum. Much as we might call ourselves xenophobic and short-sighted, we are still forced to live surrounded by the rest of the world. And they are constantly banging on the door to borrow sugar or making too much noise on the other side of a thin wall.
America is isolated, and isolates itself very effectively. You cannot have an idea of the real meaning of the word 'insular' until you've experienced that for yourself.

Originally posted by Agent Dan
Exactly! Only america has military power and nuclear weapons!:o

And, of course, we don't? But it avoids my contention that blaming (hating etc) a group for the actions of some of it's members is responsible for so much of the bias, racism and violence in this world. A person should be 'judged' by his/her behaviour, not by the actions of other members of the group. We had the Jew haters (and still do) - and we know what that produced in the 20th century.

But as a political power we do not behave like children... I do see where you're coming from, and try very hard not to 'categorise' people in that way, but there are so many cases of America jumping in without due care and attention that it becomes difficult... although not impossible, admittedly! As a culture, though, they are perhaps some of the most guilty of stereotyping people themselves!

I just wish they had as much concern for other people as they do for their own citizens.

Originally posted by Agent Dan

I just wish they had as much concern for other people as they do for their own citizens. [/B]

Tell that to the thousands jailed and/shot/or beaten for demonstrating during the last fifty or so years (including the war in Iraq).

And as for not behaving like children - what, then, is this 'poodling' up to Bush and his cohorts (against the wishes of much of the electorate, and lying into the bargain) - the action of responsible adults?

Sorry, reckon my biases are totally ingrained after spending half my life there, immersed in the very culture about which I am complaining.:lol:

As for the way Blair is sticking his nose up the a*se of Bush...couldn't make me sicker. But at least we're free to condemn it.

I agree! There's no excuse for brown nosing - take margaret thatcher and ronald reagan as another classic example - but I think tony-tone the hip pm believed he had no choice, as to anger the great american was to invite trouble if we ever need bailing out of some (equally stupid) conflict!!

So the electorate in this country don't count. There is no excuse for Blair supporting Bush AGAINST the UN.

At the moment it doesn't feel like we count much.

And no, there's no excuse for America just bopping along over the heads of the UN - they are pledged like the rest of us to take their problems with other nations to a higher court, as it were. Of course it did help to highlight the fact that America believes it is more important than anyone else and also has the right to set aside laws it has signed up to in the past and has demanded others sign up to - eg human rights laws (Camp x-ray, anyone).

Personally, I have no time for governments. Especially, those of the UK and USA (which seem to affect me, and the rest of the world most during the last 50 or so years). Both, under Blair and Bush, have become virtual dictatorships - and in the name of democracy.

I wonder how long it will be before Blair decides to let the US store it's planes and nuclear missiles here, just like with Greenham Common in the 80's.

Isn't it ironic how the US kicked up a fuss and almost went to Nuclear War when Russia put missiles in Cuba. But it's ok for the US to do it in Britain.

Originally posted by alchresearch
I wonder how long it will be before Blair decides to let the US store it's planes and nuclear missiles here, just like with Greenham Common in the 80's.

Isn't it ironic how the US kicked up a fuss and almost went to Nuclear War when Russia put missiles in Cuba. But it's ok for the US to do it in Britain.

Hypocritical maybe, but not ironic.

There seems to be one rule for the US and one for the rest of the world. As I've stated, I have no time for the US government, but having lived on the North American continent for about twenty-four years, I've found that people are people all over the world - some good, some bad, most in-between - but ask for governments - most are BAD.

Originally posted by alchresearch
the US only have themselves to blame when they are despised and attacked.

Lets try looking at it from another point of view. Ever since 9/11, the US has launched an attack on terror. They are now sat in Iraq. Yes, they are losing several soldiers a day etc, but I feel they are comfortable with this amount. In other words, these are minimal losses. What are they achieving? Well, you could say that since 9/11 there has been no other attacks in America, why not? well, beause they have taken the fight to their enemies garden so to speak. Fundamentalist terrorists, Al Qaeda etc are now forced to go to Iraq and fight. The US are now sat in between 2 nations renown for terrorists (Iran & Syria) and are basically saying 'what you going to do about it?' If you step out of line we will over throw your government, take over all of your businesses etc.

Originally posted by Lickszz
The US are now sat in between 2 nations renown for terrorists (Iran & Syria) and are basically saying 'what you going to do about it?'

Iran and Syria as terrorist nations? Can we have some facts please?

I think you've overdosed on right-wing opinion

Originally posted by alchresearch
The news story can be found here (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030920/80/e8z3t.html).

A US solider kills a bengal tiger because it mauled another solider. The fact that the soliders were having a party at the zoo and decided it would be fun to hand feed a wild beast.

I strongly urge everyone to complain to the US Government by clicking 'contact' here (http://www.firstgov.gov/Contact.shtml)


They did a very foolish thing!!!

Originally posted by Lickszz
Lets try looking at it from another point of view. Ever since 9/11, the US has launched an attack on terror.

They'd do better launching an attack on their own flab and rising gun crime.

Perhaps if Hollywood didn't rewrite history in movies in such an arrogant way they wouldn't be hated as much globally?

Originally posted by alchresearch
They'd do better launching an attack on their own flab and rising gun crime.

Perhaps if Hollywood didn't rewrite history in movies in such an arrogant way they wouldn't be hated as much globally?

Perhaps your right. I certainly don't hate them. I am in fact quite grateful for what they have done for us over the years. What do you think might have happened if they had not won the cold war?

Originally posted by Abby
Iran and Syria as terrorist nations? Can we have some facts please?

I think you've overdosed on right-wing opinion


Abby, Can we have some facts that those countries are terrorist free please?

I never said that they were terrorist nations. Perhaps you read what you wanted to? I said they are renown for terrorists, whether that be hiding out there or based there is entirely up to you.

Lickszz, you're not a born again Republican are you?

The US "won" the cold war? How did they do that? I thought the "end" to the cold war came about because of the radical changes in the USSR - remember glasnost and perestroika?

As for the theory that the war or terrorism has worked, because since 9/11 there have been no further attacks on the US, this is just wishful thinking. The terrorists may be "keeping their heads down" for a while but isn't that what you'd do? It is only a matter of time.

The US government is controlled by extremists who pose a far greater threat to world peace than any two bit terrorist group. Before thanking them, have a look at this Democrates website in the US... it is most enlightening.

http://democrats.com/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=911

Originally posted by Zamo
Lickszz, you're not a born again Republican are you?

The US "won" the cold war? How did they do that? I thought the "end" to the cold war came about because of the radical changes in the USSR - remember glasnost and perestroika?



http://democrats.com/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=911
I disagree my friend. You see, it's like a game of poker. Whoever has the most money will always win. US won the race with better missiles/better planes etc. and threw more money behind it. In the end USSR economy could not keep up and they collapsed and basically said sod it.

ps - I am not sure why you post that link, hardly seems relevant. I don't expect the truth about 9/11 to ever come out, so people can speculate all they wish.

Lickszz, you obviously don't play poker! In my experience people who try to "buy" the game nearly always lose.

You are probably right that the whole "truth" about 9/11 or the war will never come out. Apart from anything so much depends on your point of view.

Originally posted by Lickszz
Perhaps your right. I certainly don't hate them. I am in fact quite grateful for what they have done for us over the years. What do you think might have happened if they had not won the cold war?

There are some really interesting points made about the Cold War in Michael Moore's book "stupid white men", such as how the US deliberately prolonged the cold war in order to make the Soviet economy collapse.

Originally posted by alchresearch
There are some really interesting points made about the Cold War in Michael Moore's book "stupid white men", such as how the US deliberately prolonged the cold war in order to make the Soviet economy collapse.

veering OT here-
Those were very much the terms of combat in a cold war. It was an amazing disservice that both these monoliths did to the future of mankind, by spending 50 years sucking up human and natural resources and funnelling them into producing WMD.

Of course it is impossible to unpick the reasons for it all happening, and it goes right back to the first world war and before, but The Soviet Union was not unfairly characterised as the Evil Empire, although The More Evil Empire fits better.

The USA ended up with an economy that is still largely reliant on government defence contracts to produce weapons and weapons technology. This makes them the most well armed nation state ever, both conventionally and with WMD. The trouble is that the economy requires an annual defence budget that dwarfs all others for it to function.

The broad net result of all this is that War is good business for the USA, whereas peace is not. The same holds true for the UK on a smaller scale.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
The broad net result of all this is that War is good business for the USA, whereas peace is not. The same holds true for the UK on a smaller scale.

Perhaps we could go to war with the US - I'd certainly enlist!

I'd be even safer too, the US can't hit an enemy wearing a military uniform. But, put on civillian clothing, a coppers uniform or dress up as a tiger and you're history!

Originally posted by alchresearch
Perhaps we could go to war with the US


Might be a bit difficult with no Coal or Steel Industry. :)

We could take down steel gates and fences and build Spitfires!

Originally posted by alchresearch
Perhaps we could go to war with the US - I'd certainly enlist!
We'd need to build a few more Ballistic Missile Subs first, ay maybe another 20 or so, then fit them out with ERW MIRVS and then rain neutron bombs down over the whole country at thanksgiving.

Might be a bit hard to defend in parliament the next day, plus we'd get a pasting from their 8 carrier groups in short order.

The US needs to learn, as a political entity, to take the long view.

Chairman Mao, when asked of his opinion of the French Revolution is reputed to have said something like:
"I cannot say, it is too early to tell".

Originally posted by alchresearch
We could take down steel gates and fences and build Spitfires!

True, and perhaps Hal could put on his white silk scarf once again! :lol: