Sheffield Steam Sheds Article in Steam Day Magazine [Archive]

CHAIRBOY

14-02-2008, 21:01

Oh - the Harwich boat train: I can see it now - about 11 corridor-stock coaches with wooden boards LIVERPOOL - PARKSTONE QUAY. The Britannia (off Stratford shed) brought the train into Victoria station and handed it over to an electric, then waited at Darnall for the afternoon return trip. On the odd occasion when they put a B1 on the working it was quite a let-down. If you sat on the wall on Bernard Road you could see both the Midland and ex-G.C. lines. Happy days.

Spot-on. I understood all your colloquial expressions in your earlier piece. The boat train then returned to East Anglia about 3.15/30pm. I seem to recall the Master Cutler being in at that time too. That left from Victoria for London in those days. If the boat train wasn't a Britannia, a Sandringham sometimes headed it - but agree, B1's were a let down. Lurking around Victoria/Bernard Road, those "Director" class eg Marne, Ypres, Jutland etc.
Ian Allen's "Trains Illustrated"
There once was a Sheffield Locospotters' Club headed by a man called Charlie Foster who lived at Gleadless. You'd get a coach from the LMS station at Saturday midnight say, for Wiltshire and then on the Sunday, do Swindon works and sheds and maybe Bristol Temple Meads 82A. Another trip was to Nine Elms, Hither Green, Old Oak Common, Bricklayers Arms etc. in London.
Just after diesels arrived, about the age of 16, I drew stumps but I spent hours on stations, combining it with watching football and autograph hunting till about 11pm on London stations. I booked my own holiday to Scotland when I was 15, touring with a rail rover and having authentic passes to visit MPDs!
Haymarket 64B and St.Margarets 64A were two of my usual haunts when in Edinburgh.

hillsbro

15-02-2008, 09:24

A few memories there, CHAIRBOY! I don't actually remember a Sheffield Locospotters' Club; apart from day trips (and a 3-day trip to Scotland in 1966) with the Warwickshire Railway Society I used to visit sheds unofficially and organise my own excursions like you. The Sheffield area sheds were fairly easy, as were others within cycling distance such as Doncaster, Hasland and Ardsley (though I once got thrown out of Canklow). Leeds Holbeck had a sympathetic foreman, but it was well-known that Colwick was almost impossible (though I managed to bunk it all the same). Later, there was T.W. Ward's scrap line at Beighton - I copped 60118 Archibald Sturrock there. In 1957 I went with hy mum and grandma to London for the day on the Master Cutler. It was always an A3, and we had 60102 Sir Frederick Banbury. It wasn't the same after the diesels arrived, but for a time in about 1966-68, the new Brush Type 4 No D1500 was the regular loco on the Master Cutler. This was when it was made up of Pullman stock and went via Retford, instead of down the old Great Central line. I once went to Retford on it, just to be able to say that I had travelled Pullman. The boat train did indeed leave for Harwich at about 3-15 to 3-30. In fact at "home" in Wadsley I have an old Sheffield bus guide for 1954 with a list of departures from Victoria and Midland stations. It makes interesting reading, with trains shown as stopping at long-gone stations such as Dunford Bridge, Stockport (Tiviot Dale), Dogdyke and Heath - some of them pulled by those ex-Great Central "Director" 4-4-0's with names evoking First World War battles...

CHAIRBOY

15-02-2008, 10:12

Dogdyke? I wasn't an angler but on Sunday morning at about 5am when getting back from a Wednesday game in the south, the Victoria station approach was thronged with fishermen going to catch their trains.
I used to catch the 5.42pm from Victoria to Retford when a London team had played in Sheffield to travel on their London train and get autographs. Ron Springett used to travel on this train.
We used to visit Canklow, Barrow Hill and Rowsley on our bikes. The return half-fare to Doncaster was 1s 8d but I've cycled there as a teenager with the sole purpose of climbing up the paint shop wall at Doncaster plant. My last A1 was in the window, Kingfisher (despite my time in Edinburgh). Do you remember ever going over North Bridge at Doncaster to near a canal that overlooked the back of the plant? St.James's Bridge was brilliant for spotting. If we went the other way, it was 4/6d half return to Manchester London Road and then a further 3/6d to Crewe - that was big stuff! Crewe 5A was very difficult but Crewe South and Gresty Lane not so busy. In Sheffield, Archer Road steps, by Guylee's, was my usual haunt - unless word got round something special was on the GC line but I have been to the Bernard Road location with bino's.

hillsbro

15-02-2008, 12:56

More memories here, of course. I'd forgotten the 1/8d day return to Doncaster but you're quite right. I never completed my A1s or A4s (Kingfisher was an A4) even after two trips to Scotland but I was a regular at Doncaster. I do remember going over the North Bridge at Doncaster to see the back of the Plant, and a bike was useful for peering over the wall into the paint shop. In 1966-67 I was at college in Doncaster and my landlady's garden in Sprotborough Road backed on to the freight avoiding line - even then there was the occasional steam loco, usually a WD. The "rarest" engine I ever saw in the Plant in c. 1959 was a K1 from Scotland, 61997 McCailin Mor. I went to Crewe several times in 1961-64 but maybe you were going there a bit earlier than me, as I remember the total of the two day returns was 8/3d rather than 8 bob. I once went via Derby and copped some useful stuff around Uttoxeter etc. Barrow Hill was quite good - in 1965 the newly-built Clayton Type 1 diesels (D85xx) were stored there; they didn't last long apparently. Crewe South was indeed very easy, also Gresty Lane. I was in Crewe a few years ago and found that there is a breakfast cereal factory on/near the site of Gresty Lane shed. And where we used to sit on the wall at Bernard Road is now somewhere in mid-air above the Parkway. How times change...

CHAIRBOY

15-02-2008, 16:18

A4s indeed - "streak" would be the cry on St.James's Bridge! I have corrected it - just a blip - Kittiwake was an A1. Talking of factories near stations; Warrington Bank Quay was famous for the soap aromas coming from the Lever factory and Wigan Low Level was much better "Uncle Joe's Mint Balls"! On the low level at Wigan, you could see the Preston- London line over a bridge - a bit like Tamworth. I went to Wigan, one day, needing four Coronations for a full book - I copped three of the four just leaving 46235 City of Birmingham outstanding on my retirement! What's
3d to us? It was about the same time as yourself. I remember bending the knees at the ticket office to get a 'half'.
Those Scottish engines were just a dream - MacLeod of MacLeod - etc. only seen in T.I. pictures. Even with my time in Scotland, I was east coast and never made those Highland lines.

hillsbro

15-02-2008, 17:14

My goodness, CHAIRBOY, we could continue this "conversation" for ages. Maybe we should meet for a pint in in the Boilermaker's Arms or some other suitable watering-place! Somewhere I have a 1961 photo of a Coronation pulling the "Royal Scot", taken at Warrington Bank Quay with Lever Bros. huge tanks as a backdrop. It would be funny if it were "City of Birmingham" - I'll have a look when I am "home" on Sunday. I never went to Wigan, but Wolverhampton was another place where you could position yourself on the Low Level station and see trains at both levels, likewise Tamworth. Only rarely did Scottish engines such as 61997 venture south, except for major repairs at Doncaster etc. We did use to see the loco for the "night Scotsman" at Millhouses shed on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays. It was usually a Polmadie engine, and more often than not a Clan. I copped Clan Stewart and Clan MacKenzie there. One one occasion we were surprised to find a Jubilee rostered for the train, but it was a good one - 45697 Achilles, off Carlisle Kingmoor. I also used to pore over my Ian Allan books at the exotic-sounding names of locos that hauled trains on obscure, scenic branches in the Far North. Names such as Edie Ochiltree, Luckie Mucklebackit, Lord of the Isles, Laird of Balmawhapple and Lady of the Lake. Memories...

CHAIRBOY

15-02-2008, 17:47

Absolutely, the distinctive feature of those Carlisle "Jubilees" was that they had larger numbers. Millhouses used to be hectic on a Sunday morning if there was a 'Clan' on the sleeper.
A person on the go then, I have seen talking about Sheffield Transport issues on TV, is called Peter Fox - we called him 'Foxy' but 45 years on, he hasn't changed.
The link line by Bernard Road was called The Nunnery Line, wasn't it? I always tried to go to Wolverhampton from Snow Hill station - I loved those Western engines.
One other point of note was when there was a cup-tie, say Sheffield W v Bournemouth, you might get a surprise engine pulling the football excursion train. Do you remember those excursion plates on the front of the boiler.
Trainspotting is oft derided but when you look at today's alternatives it was wonderful and had knock-on educational benefits and disciplines. I am amazed today when bright pupils haven't a clue in which counties towns lie - or the name of stations, airports etc, plus the planning of trips etc.

hillsbro

15-02-2008, 18:55

Yes, the line under the Bernard Road wall was the nunnery line, named after the former Nunnery Colliery that was nearby. After trains to Darnall, Woodhouse etc. changed to Midland Station, the line was relaid and re-aligned to make it into a convenient spur connecting the Midland and G.C. lines. The junction where it leaves the G.C. line is still called Nunnery Junction. From the wall on Bernard Road, as you looked down to your left you could also see the huge stone wall (under which the main lines went) which had behind it a tunnel - there were air-holes in the wall. Until c. 1960 you would occasionally see smoke emerging from the holes and hear the sound of a steam loco pulling a goods train in or out of the Blast Lane goods depot. Access from this to the main G.C. line was near Nunnery Junction. In 1958 I went with my older brother to Wolverhampton, and we took a train from Birmingham Snow Hill - the only time I've been pulled by an ex-G.W.R. engine (I think it was a Hall). I well remember the excursion plates on the smokebox door, also special headboards, such as when I went with the cubs on a "special" to the Jubilee Jamboree at Sutton Coldfield in 1957. Transpotting was certainly educational and encouraged kids to travel and see the country. Also the disciplines were important, as you rightly say. You knew the do's and don'ts, and seeing classes of engines in the Ian Allan books, and carefully underlining them is, I think, what encouraged in me a sense of "orderliness" which perhaps helped with a career on the fringes of I.T. But the main thing is that they were happy days.

CHAIRBOY

15-02-2008, 20:00

The Pullman coaches were also educational - I'm sure I've called Persephone (Percy-fone) until I knew better. I would have quit about 1964. The Peak diesels and the D800 "Warships"? Sir Brian Robertson were the first stages of disenchantment. Even with a name, there just wasn't the same magic.
Did you ever get a speck of coal dust in your eye, looking through the window (leather sash belts) with your hand cupped round your eye like a blinker? Do you recall the 2d platform ticket? I also remember the four lines at Millhouses, two main lines and the other pair "up and down Manx". On Sundays, you'd get a tank coming down tender first from Chinley with all the hikers. No corridors in those trains so heavens knows what folk got up to?
What about the stove-pipe chimneys on those Patriots which we may have seen at Crewe? Another thrill was on Doncaster station when the Flying Scotsman went by on the fast line. Guess that was even better at Retford. You could get to Crewe via Derby but I always went via Manchester and past Jodrell Bank.
I am fairly certain that I went to Newcastle as a student (well before Quayside nightlife) as a result of an earlier visit to see the Owls and was so taken by the entrance over the bridges and the station itself. 52A Heaton and 52B Gateshead Bowes Bridge, correct? Then those sub sheds eg Percy Main.

hillsbro

15-02-2008, 20:31

Oh, the leather sash belts on the windows. It's the first thing I recognise when riding on a preserved line such as the K & WVR. The names of engines were often something of a mystery. I mean, one of the Darnall locos was BUTLER-HENDERSON, but who was he? For me, one of the uses of the Internet in recent years has been to learn about such people as Archibald Sturrock, Sir Frederick Banbury, Lord Rowallan, Fitzherbert Wright and Andrew K. McCosh. I well remember the 2d. platform tickets (issued by those red machines - see http://railticketsillustrated.digimig.co.uk/p47743787.html) The last such ticket I bought was at Kings Cross in 1979, by which time the price was 4p. The machines might be "born again" if the Midland Station acquires barriers, as per a different thread. The Hope Valley line trains sometimes had no lighting, as well as no corridors, so going through Totley Tunnel could be scary or enjoyable, depending on whom you were with. Retford or Newark were the places to go to, if you wanted to see steam-hauled expresses at full speed. Actually, 52A was Gateshead and 52B Heaton. In 1966 I went on a coach trip with the Warwickshire R.S. to the Tyneside sheds, including Percy Main (52E) where I copped loads of J27s 0-6-0s. I saw one of them again on the North York Moors Railway - 65894, I think. Memories...

CHAIRBOY

15-02-2008, 21:08

Yes, that's the platform ticket machine. There did come a time when one was no guarantee to the platform. There was a particularly difficult ticket snipper at Midland Station called Norman Manley who wouldn't let spotters through the barrier.
Crewe was an art in remaining on the station, even with a rail ticket.
I went to the ceremony at Midland station when Gold Coast 45610 became Ghana and this was a further facet of education with those names put forth in your previous link.
You had the Western 'County' class and then there were some LNER locos 627--? Banffshire etc which did trips up the East Riding to Scarborough etc. Then there was the Sandringham class from which football clubs bagged the nameplates though they weren't all soccer clubs. I also took photographs but not to any great standard, just private collections but I no longer have them.
I was a one-time teaching colleague of a chap called Ian Wright who retired from Myers Grove to concentrate on his Railway Memorabilia business-aparently thriving!
I'm not into that, in fact I hardly give railways a second thought but remember vividly the happy days experienced in the above as a lower teenager.

hillsbro

15-02-2008, 21:38

I didn't know that Gold Coast was renamed Ghana at the Midland Station. I guess that would have been in 1957 or soon afterwards.

Yes - Banffshire was 62717, with Kinross-shire 62718. It's amazing how many of these names/numbers are still stored in the old grey matter. As you say, other members of the D49 class were named after football teams, and recently I picked up a small aluminium replica of the SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY nameplate (complete with miniature football under the arc) at the St Luke's charity shop at Crookes.

I knew Ian Wright when he also organised postcard fairs at Myers Grove (I collect early postcards showing the Trans-Siberian Railway and wrote some books about them - see for example http://www.bsrp.org/books/cards/siberia.html). I don't think Ian is still in the railwayana business but his auction firm is still going strong under new management - http://www.sheffrail.f9.co.uk/ Three or four years ago Ian was interviewed on TV about the forthcoming sale of the nameplate COCK O' THE NORTH in one of his auctions - it made over £50,000. In 1965 I bought from the British Rail stores department (for £1) the numberplate 61249 (Fitzherbert Wright). A few years later I was hard up and sold it to the "B1 Preservation Society" for £5. I wonder where it is now...

CHAIRBOY

16-02-2008, 07:29

It's amazing all this. I have written on other threads about 'must haves' in the Christmas stocking viz. football annuals but another must was the Ian Allen Combined volume of numbers - £1 2s 6d?
You spent all Christmas day copying up your book. This brought in another quality of trainspotting - honesty! What was the point of deluding yourself? I can't do it now but at the time, I would liked to have been able to say where I saw x at a given time.
I also had the loco-shed book which gave directions, transport etc. to all the MPDs.
I used to like the orange station livery of the North East and the light blue of what now is termed Scotrail. You'll remember the destination board on the sides of trains. Most of the main trains through Sheffield were London-Bradford and Newcastle-Bristol, given the odd extension here and there, like the one a day to Poole and Parkestone Quay OR to Glasgow St. Enoch - one of the then four Glasgow stations to add to Central, Queen St (from Edinburgh) and Buchanan Street. That's going back to the days when Third Lanark existed!
"What were on t'Temmy"? - I bet you know that vernacular? What engine was pulling the Thames-Clyde express. This was a popular and full service and I'd guess left Midland station about 12.20pm? It got to Millhouses about 12.30 and was usually Jubilee hauled. It was great to watch it from the Woodseats Road bridge heading up to Archer Road - it was quite a gradient up to Totley cutting (another vantage point) and it had to work very hard. It was an important train and how many times have you "wished I was on that"?
The Newcastle-Cardiff train was just after 11am. If Newcastle or Sunderland were playing Cardiff or Swansea on the Saturday, they'd pass through Sheffield on the Friday on this train.
You'd look for those white reservation labels that they put on the windows. Then you could pass your annuals/pictures for signing through those two top windows which pulled apart!
Another memory is the White Rose express which left Doncaster just after 4pm. There was often an A1 on that with a double chimney and it made a lovely sound as the steam wafted around. This, too, was popular. There was often a lot of fuss on the platform as a wedding party was not too far away!
I loved those names: The Palatine, The Northumbrian, Elder- Dempster Line (?) Fred Olsen Line.
In the case of the Thames-Clyde express, we'd probably miss out in Sheffield as a Kingmoor Jubilee would probably bring it to Leeds and then go to Holbeck - whereupon we'd see the usual 55A engine we'd seen many times. It was waiting for the unexpected that made it - and when it happened people thought you were winding them up!

Can I add - other people can join us in this discussion.

hillsbro

16-02-2008, 09:05

Yes - I think others could join in. There must be a number of former trainspotters out there, to whom this seems all too familiar.
The "Temmy" was well known to always have a fine-looking Holbeck "Jube" in charge; how much nicer to have seen the Kingmoor loco that would have brought it over the Settle-Carlisle sector. There was also the "Wav"(erley) that went from St Pancras to Edinburgh via Carlisle and back. We would finish school (King Edward's) at 4-10 and get a No 60 bus to the station, just in time to see the up train. We didn't even need a platform ticket; you could see it through the gate on Sheaf Street. And then there was the Devonian that ran from Bradford to Paignton.
My first "combined" was the winter 1958-59 edition and cost 10/6d from Andrews in Holly Street; I still have it, with all the numbers truthfully underlined.
The Locoshed book (by the way, a 1950s edition has been reprinted; I have the reprint) actually gave only the shed allocations. It was the "Shed Directory" that told you how to find the sheds ... "The shed is on the east side of the line, 1 mile south of the station. The yard is visible from the line. Take a No 34 bus from outside the station and get off at ..."
In regard to named expresses, Victoria Station offered the Master Cutler with its A3, but also the South Yorkshireman which ran from London Marylebone to Sheffield and then via Penistone and Huddersfield to Bradford.
I remember cabbing 61010 Wildebeeste on Platform 2 at the Midland Station in 1957. The kindly driver asked me "what is a steam lomomotive?" As I stammered a bit he told me, and I wrote down his definition in the back of my notebook: "A mechanical contraption for utilising the expansive power of steam".
Today's children and young teens have interests of their own, and no doubt in 40-50 years time they will look back with nostalgia at their Ipods , Xboxes etc. But the oft-mocked trainspotter of four or five decades ago got out into the fresh air, travelled the country (and often abroad), learned about lots of related subjects etc. etc. I can name a dozen or more species of antelope and I'm familiar with the names of stately homes, characters in Sir Walter Scott's novels, highly decorated patriots and Royal Navy admirals...

cat631

16-02-2008, 11:18

Join it.....I can't see it for smoke!!!

CHAIRBOY

16-02-2008, 11:31

I couldn't agree more - Marmion and Abbotsford sprang immediately to mind. In fact when I did my General Paper, one of the arts questions asked: "What determines the beauty of a city?" Having witnessed the Clyde outside of Glasgow Central in the 60's it was easy to eulogise about the backcloth of Edinburgh from Waverley steps.
There was also plenty of mathematical content with braking systems (Westinghouse etc) , mechanical advantages, even tenders' water capacities and I acquainted myself with the word "austerity" through those said locos on Doncaster shed.
Thank you for correcting me on the two publications - I had both but the mind is ageing! I had also forgotten about the trains "The Waverley" and "The Devonian" but certainly remember the Sheaf Street gate. "The Queen of Scots" went through Doncaster and "The Red Rose" could be seen through Crewe.
Something I forgot to say in the "Combined" annual and 10/6d seems to ring a bell (I remember a red cover for a year about '62), was that we used to rule a rectangular box around a photograph if we'd seen it.
You mentioned railways abroad, I've travelled extensively on the old Deutsche Bundesbahn and Nederlandse Spoorwegen, though with little interest other than punctuality. However, I mentioned the visual effect of my first journey into Newcastle and I can better that with the southern entrance into Stockholm Central. You emerge from a tunnel and there's the City Hall, bridges, water - a wonderful vista. I've flown in every time since then but if one travels within Sweden northbound, it's an unforgetable first time experience.

hillsbro

16-02-2008, 11:35

Yes indeed. I also learned the word "austerity" by courtesy of Ian Allan. And when I was doing 'A' level applied maths, an erudite article in Modern Railways entitled "The mechanics of train running" proved to be useful background knowledge.
I've travelled by train worldwide; whenever I am not in a hurry it's the best form of transport. I've done the Trans-Siberian (three times, including the extension to Beijing), the Indian Pacific (Perth-Sydney), the Tranzalpine (New Zealand), AMTRAK's California Zephyr, Capitol Limited and Lakeshore Limited etc. The Blue Train was too expensive but you get the same Johannesburg-to-Cape Town view from the Trans-Karoo (£45 one-way in 1995, including sleeper). I've never travelled to Stockholm by train but the approach by rail to Cape Town, with Table Mountain on the left, Signal Hill ahead and the harbour with Robben Island on the right takes some beating.
The Deutsche Bundesbahn's "Tourenkarte" (rail-rover) was such a bargain in 1981 that I bought a first-class, 9-day ticket and hobnobbed with well-heeled businessmen as I sampled Das Rheingold.
But wherever I go in the world, the memories of copping Scots and Jubilees at Sheffield Midland, and the 1957 journey with Mum and Grandma to London on the Master Cutler will stay with me.
As for the smoke, "cat631", it had a fragrance all of its own....

CHAIRBOY

16-02-2008, 13:29

Amazing! I spent six of the seven weeks summer holiday of 1980 in West Germany and sorry, trumped you! I had a nine-day and then a sixteen-day DB railcard, both first-class, it was such good value as you say. It also gave you half-price on the boats Am Bodensee. I planned it such there was a gap betwen them when I was based in a large city, eg Munich. I think I got my money's worth on the Hamburg to Munich journey. I was familiar with Das Rheingold and certainly travelled on "Albrecht Durer" - a Nuremburg train.
In 1981 I bought the 28-day, first-class, Nord-Rail pass which took me all over Scandinavia and on boats. I went for six weeks and extended the pass by going to Denmark and paying for that bit of travel to Odense and Aarhus. I'd planned to miss the Royal wedding but the Danish TV seemed very interested?
The girls at Woodcocks, then on Fulwood Road, let me have an expired Thomas Cook European timetable guide for which I was extremely grateful. It was indispensible, and once again, an educational exercise in forward planning.
As for the smoke.... most welcome on cold days as you snook up to an engine for a warm to generate life into frost-bitten fingers. The braziers on platforms were also welcome.
A further beautiful journey is the Oslo to Bergen rail line - beautiful. Unfortunately, I went west on the midnight sleeper and had a boil in my ear on the return trip.
Often wondered how snow poses them few problems yet any adverse conditions here and it's mayhem?

hillsbro

16-02-2008, 14:26

Well, of course, the problem on our railways is that it's always the wrong kind of snow. And whenever the mercury falles below zero, or we have more than an inch of rain, or those dreaded sycamore trees are shedding their leaves, our trains seem to grind to a halt.
The German "Tourenkarte" also allowed cut-price travel to Berlin, with a free city tour thrown in, and so in 1981 my friend and I had a view of The Wall.
Rail-rover tickets in Britain seem to be a thing of the past, but they were good value. I had a 7-day ticket in 1978, and apart from using sleepers to go to Penzance and Inverness, and on one of the days taking the Royal Scot from London to Glasgow and the Flying Scotsman back, I even paid a bit more and went to Ireland. I took the sleeper from Euston to Stranraer, then the morning boat to Larne and on by train to Belfast. Then it was the Enterprise Express to Dublin, an evening boat train to Dun Laoghaire, steamer to Holyhead and another sleeper back to Euston. I must have been mad. I've also had rail-rover equivalents in France, Hungary and Finland. Hungary in 1983 still had steam-hauled passenger trains on some branches (such as Vámosgyörk to Gyöngyös) but by 1990 the lines had been electrified. The Finnish ticket took my friend and me just north of the Arctic Circle at Kemijärvi, and as it was June (1988 ) we saw the midnight sun. The Cook's European Timetable was invaluable (as was their Overseas Timetable for outside Europe).
And this love of travelling, especially by rail, was partially inspired decades ago by standing on Sheffield's Victoria or Midland stations, bunking Millhouses or Darnall shed and poring over those Ian Allan books. Ian Allan himself was still going strong, the last I heard. Some years ago I sent him a 70th birthday card and got a nice postcard back (with a picture of a fine loco, of course).

CHAIRBOY

16-02-2008, 15:15

Yes, I did the East Berlin - Severin & Kuhns - coach trip. Far from memorable apart from talking to a couple of Dutch lads on the trip. Passports checked, handed back in an ungracious manner -taken to the Russian cemetery, the Pergammon Museum and a cafe to exchange one's DMarks at a derisory rate (scam)!
My Finnish travel was included in the NordRail pass but felt a long way from home. Although I have knowledge of Germanic languages
(Swedish), Finnish is something else. Three days in Helsinki, two in Tampere and then I headed for Vaasa to the boat for Umea. From there, I headed north, stayed at Gallivare and then made it to Narvik. Decided to thumb and hit lucky - a lift from Narvik in a Golf to the Youth Hostel in Trondheim with an Oslo guy who even paid for two short ferries - no strings! From Trondheim, a long journey by train for more Stockholm before the Oslo-Bergen part.
I still have my Ian Allen metal badge - circular with a red ring round a silver centre (loco). I'm trying to think of Sheffield-related trips but think I have exhausted them.
When you mentioned Dogdyke, weren't Torksey and Tattersalls also in that fishing vicinity?
With sheds, roundhouses were easier to collect numbers from the centre but you were well exposed. Old Oak Common had four massive roundhouses. Millhouses - we usually entered round the back but the obvious door was just that - and when something special eg Clan, was there, it was thronged with spotters and a keen foreman!
I was chased out of two sheds Tyseley and Stirling but ran like billy and got on a nearby train at the station.

hillsbro

16-02-2008, 16:18

Your travels in Scandinavia sound tempting - my brother and his wife go to Sweden every year and always enjoy their holidays there. Berlin has certainly changed since the early 1980s; I was there again in 1999 and there was no comparison. After several trips to Finland I can get by, or bluff my way in the (highly inflected) language. I am fairly fluent in German, thanks to innumerable visits there (my godfather was a p.o.w. in Lodge Moor camp!)
The article in "Steam Days" that began this thread is excellent. It could perhaps be extended to cover, say, Barrow Hill and Canklow, for the benefit of old timers like us. Neepsend shed was before my time. Honest it was. I hadn't realised that Grimesthorpe shed dates from 1860, or that Darnall was only built 20-odd years before I first sneaked round it. The author of the article clearly isn't local - he refers to the old Wicker station being near "Pital Hill" and falls for the common mis-spelling "Eccleshall".
I always remember Dogdyke station because, after it closed in c. 1962, the station porter's maroon-painted wooden barrow found its way to Sheffield Midland where it remained in use for some years - the words "Dogdyke Station, E.R." hand-lettered in yellow on the handle. Dogdyke station was indeed near Tattersall on the Lincoln-Boston line; Woodhall Junction was where the line diverged from the Lincoln-Firsby-Skegness route. Torksey (another location popular with fishermen) was on the long-abandoned direct route between Retford and Lincoln.
I bunked Old Oak Common shortly before I gave up trainspotting in 1966, but I had forgotten the roundhouses. I think Willesden shed was very near; the information on how to get there having come from my trusty shed directory...

CHAIRBOY

16-02-2008, 18:00

Old Oak Common V Willesden? Old Oak Common serves Paddington - you'll remember Ladbroke Grove etc - the line which goes out west to Reading. Willesden isn't far away but going from Marylebone turns right northbound to Wembley and Amersham etc.
"Eccleshall" was mis-spelt on Multi-map - don't know if it has been amended since I told them? I like books to be accurate or I soon become uneasy with what to believe.
I wasn't around in the war but spent three months in Lodge Moor hospital in 1993 following a medical blunder and am now in a wheelchair. There are some positives but the thing I miss most are my trips to the Netherlands which were based on an NS Kaart and hopping from train to tram to bus and metro!
I've been back through Schiphol but only once to visit friends. The IC trains have steep steps and you have to log 24 hours notice which is very restrictive. Stockholm is easy for me, fly to Arlanda, airport train into Central Station and then a lift up to the hotel from out of the station. Stockholm is my favourite destination. I've never heard anyone not liking Cape Town but I am under review for skin cancer and have a snake phobia!

hillsbro

16-02-2008, 18:39

Well, I'm sure that Old Oak Common and Willesden sheds weren't too far apart. I'll have a look in my shed directory when I'm "home" tomorrow, but I remember taking the tube to Willesden Junction station, and then walking to both sheds. The lines out of Euston and Paddington run westwards, parallel with each other and about half a mile apart, just north of Wormwood Scrubs. I am not quite sure where the sheds were, but "Old Oak Lane" is nearby. Anyway I'll check tomorrow.
My wife's mother also spent some time in Lodge Moor hospital following a medical blunder (undiagnosed broken neck in an RTA) and was then wheelchair-bound. A sad story all round.
Train to tram to bus etc. sounds a bit like Germany (though the ticket rules and regulations were worked out with Teutonic attention to detail, and can be quite inscrutable). Maybe in Sheffield we'll eventually have one ticket for all the buses and trams - or maybe that's hoping for too much. Anyway I get my bus pass in April...
I think that better use could be made of some of Sheffield's closed or neglected railways. Apart from a possible Supertram line to Dore & Totley (using the full width of the trackbed, as it used to be), maybe one day they will revive (for trains or trams) the old line through Neepsend to Wadsley Bridge etc. They have been talking about a renewed Woodhead route (using the perfectly good tunnel) but otherwise a Supertram line to the northwest suburbs seems a good idea.
I wish I'd had a camera when bunking Millhouses shed, but I have seen some fine photos taken by others, and there are some good ones in the Steam Days article and other printed sources.
Your comment "I like books to be accurate" strikes a chord with me. In 1986 I was advising on a Trans-Siberian travel guide. I told them that the loco scrapyard given as being at Elansk was actually hundreds of miles away at Ilansk. Despite several reminders the error was repeated in as many editions. I can just imagine enthusiasts peering into the virgin forest near Elansk.
I don't exactly have a snake phobia but I told my friend to be careful as he was poking (with a short stick) and photographing a pretty snake we found in a country road in South Africa. It turned out to be a puff adder...

CHAIRBOY

16-02-2008, 18:56

Regarding the bus passes in April, I've had clarification from Nick Clegg and a man from SPTE that Sheffield's rules will apply in April ie 9am all day, rather than the proposed 9.30am to 11pm elsewhere. For disabled pass holders - all day. I had feared moving one step forward and then two back!

hillsbro

16-02-2008, 19:04

Thanks for this. I will turn up at the appropriate office on 6 April with my birth certificate, mugshot etc. In fact (as I will begrudge paying £1.70 to get into town on my 60th birthday) I might walk down to the Hillsborough office...
In the days when bus fares were 10p or less (in 1986 they trebled overnight) a bus pass wasn't so much of a perk. But now the 61 year-old Mrs hillsbro and I will be making good use of buses and trams when we are in Sheffield. Her ticket is Lincolnshire-based, but of course from April we'll be able to use the tickets anywhere. In fact, with a bit of determined local-bus timetable work, we might manage to go in short stages to visit our friends in Devon on the cheap...

mikeG

16-02-2008, 22:25

By Gum. I can't beat you pair but I did train spot at Dore and Totley cutting in the late 50's. Jubes and Derbyshire Yeomanry the best you could get, I think. Spent some Saturdays on Leeds City with Clans and Scots added to the usual tally. Other Sats at Manchester London Road. Two trips to Crewe. Summer holidays at my grandparents in Sandy Cove, just outside Rhyl on the Towyn side. August Bank Holiday Saturdays saw an amazing number of specials to Llandudno from Bradford, Manchester, Birmingham. Got the occasional B1 and a few stray Jubes, Scots, Pats and Brits. A great era.

CHAIRBOY

17-02-2008, 07:18

Hi Mike, Whatever the scale, they are fond memories to you and sure you'll agree with Hillsbro's summation of what a useful hobby it was, contrary to popular belief.
I remember wth Sheffield LSC going on a Sunday trip and 'doing' Wrexham and Croes Newydd sheds, almost certainly Chester as well, that must have been about 45 years ago.
More recently, we fly regularly to Dublin but a few years ago - when the Holyhead-Dublin boat service was launched, I won a competition (dubious pleasure) because the train was a journey from hell in both directions after Manchester.
Two happier memories were that we went through Llan...........goch? Secondly, and I have genuinely forgotten the name of the bridge with those large stone lions at the entrance?
I'll let you remind me but it was one often seen in TI pictures with the 'mail' train crossing it - very imposing. I seem to recall Lord Rowallan being one such engine? I was very pleased as it struck me at the time - you may think I've been everywhere but I hadn't been over that before and now I have, many years on from those halcyon days of steam!

hillsbro

17-02-2008, 08:27

Yes indeed, CHAIRBOY, it's nice to hear from MikeG. Dore and Totley was a good place for spotting, and you could play an impromptu game of football on the piece of scrubland within the triangle, while keeping an eye on both main lines.
I never went to Leeds before the "Scots" began to run through Sheffield, but I remember my older brother telling me about copping Scots and Clans there. When the Scots began to be displaced by diesels on the West Coast main line etc., we used to see them in Sheffield, and the "Steam Days" article confirms that five Scots were allocated to Millhouses during 1961, the last year when the shed was open.
I can imagine the variety of locos. that would find their way to Llandudno in summer, likewise Blackpool. Occasionally, these summer excursions would have unusual motive power such as the odd 9F. A great era, as you say, and a useful hobby. It was many years after I began to wear long trousers that I realised how character-forming an interest in railways could be - bringing out qualities of honesty, a sense of adventure, discipline, teenage self-sufficiency when travelling, record-keeping etc.
CHAIRBOY - it's the Britannia Bridge, across the Menai Strait, that has the stone lions guarding each end. And yes - the Irish Mail was a crack express. I would see it when spotting at Crewe, and the "Brit" No 70045 Lord Rowallan often pulled it - here's a photo http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/6gparttwo/coltas004fin.jpg. And that station in Anglesey with the long name is Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch. I still have one of the (long) 3d. platform tickets, and the ability to say the name of the place is my Welsh "party piece"...

CHAIRBOY

17-02-2008, 10:09

Thank you, Britannia Bridge, how appropriate that a 'Brit' should be at the head! I couldn't get Royal Border Bridge out of my head, which I well know that whereabouts, especially when Berwick has been at the forefront of discussions this week. I trust they aren't the stone lions from the City Hall? To your list of admirable qualities, I think photography skills could be added as an attribute for learning?
I had forgotten Mold Junction from the North Wales trip and I'm sure the package also involved Birkenhead (GWR).
Talking of the "Combined" annual, there was always a picture of a means of transport that served Immingham Docks - a tram I believe? I saw the pictures but never witnessed it live. Why would that qualify in the locomotive annual?

mikeG

17-02-2008, 16:38

I found myself on Exeter St. Davids station on an August Saturday, 1959. Holiday specials were steaming in from the North, the Midlands and London. Loads of Halls, Manors, Castles, Kings, 9Fs, a few Black 5's plus Standard 73 and 75 thousanders. Also Battle of Brittain and Merchant Navy's some on their way to Ilfracombe. I had a few boating holidays on the Thames in the late 50's and it was easy to moor up for the night within easy reach of the GWR. We used to moor near a bridge on the Oxford branch of the line. Battle of Britains would take trains from Southampton/ Bournemouth to Manchester/Newcastle (I think) as far as Oxford. Doesn't seem like 50 years ago but it is. Took my Dad on the Welshpool to Llanfair steam line last August on his 90th birthtday. He's a member of the Welsh Highland Railway - had a couple of trips on that.

hillsbro

17-02-2008, 17:26

I had almost forgotten the Immingham trams... In the Ian Allan books they were described as "Grimby-Immingham Electric Trams" and were numbered 1 to 33 (I just had a look in my carefully-preserved " combined" - it's the winter 1958-59 edition). On being withdrawn, the wooden bodies were sold off for garden sheds etc. and there used to be one in a field at Loxley. Another one was on the east side of the line, just south of Clay Cross station. It was there at least until the 1980s, waiting for some enthusiast to restore it, but in the end it rotted away, I guess. Sic transit gloria...
I didn't take many photos in the 1960s, but here's a photo that evokes a former age at Sheffield Midland: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/45273.jpg Taken on 18 September 1965, it shows the "Black Five" 45273 about to leave Platform 6 with empty stock for Heeley. And here are two more shots that will seem familiar to ex-spotters “of a certain age”:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/ABCs.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/Ticket.jpg
For a spotter from up North, Exeter St David's must have seemed like paradise on a busy summer's day in 1959. I'll be there on 11 March; maybe if I close my eyes I'll be able to imagine a streamlined Bulleid Pacific coming into the station with a rake of spotlessly-clean coaches. Then I'll be brought to my senses with a start when I hear over the tannoy "We regret...."
I hope that we'll all celebrate our 90th birthdays with a ride on a good old train, MikeG!

CHAIRBOY

17-02-2008, 17:53

I think you were hiding a light.....Mike. You seem to have seen plenty. I was always envious, from a spotting perspective, when school chums on SW holidays were copping SR and GWR engines - me having to make do with a trip to Preston for LMR stock.
Black Five is the correct term as per photo but we often called them "Mickeys" in Sheffield?
Your pics are great and that 10/6 combined was the one I alluded to as being 'red' - I had that one. Great material.

Texas

17-02-2008, 18:24

Sweetcheeks

17-02-2008, 19:42

Once, in my firing days, I fired a 'Wessie' to Gowholes from Grimesthorpe. Wasn't I the lucky one? I remember it clearly. Thirty two Mineral (Coal) we had. I especially remember the 'blowing off'' through Sheffield Station, and apart from the labour going up the bank, the lurching about when going down the other side, everything on it was in apposition to every other engine on the railway. A G2 freight from the LNWR, wheel arrangment 0-8-0. Killers they were. A mechanical contraption for utilizing the expansive power of steam indeed.
I would have loved to have travelled in the brake van on that trip Texas. Although the Flying Scotsman is beautiful in full flight, I always adored watching the worn out, dirty freight engines struggled slowly up the goods line with a long rake of mineral wagons. Magnificent sights and sounds that live in the memory for ever.

Runningman

17-02-2008, 21:26

Many thanks to all contributors to this thread, what memories !

I worked with a guy, ex BR fireman, who commented that it was normal for many drivers to have drunk a few more glasses than they should have done before commencing their shift !
When returning north towards Sheffield, especially during hours of darkness, the crew would attempt to wind the loco up to 100 mph as they were coming through Chesterfield, in order to attack the gradient up to Dronfield and beyond before the descent to Sheffield.
Can someone add weight to that story or is it simply not true ?

Some special memories - The sight of a Beyer Garratt passing through Totley cutting pulling what seemed like a mile of trucks.

Donny station and those streaks coming through on the middle running lines.

Football specials coming into Sheffield Victoria from London and the expectation of the sight of an A4

Going to Crewe via Manchester London Road and seeing the Coronation Class loco's. Were they really as big as they looked.

Saturday mornings in Millhouses Park and the sight of a York based V2 travelling light up to the cutting to turn round.

Oh boy !! if my Mom and Dad had ever found out that one Sunday morning, me and 3 other lads went round Mexbro' and Donny sheds and the plant.

CHAIRBOY

18-02-2008, 06:06

I remember the Beyer Garratts but don't think they were a common sight in Sheffield. There were some locos, that unless you travelled, you never saw and I mention this story to prove that point.
I mention another trip organised by Sheffield LSC. It most likely incorporated about half a dozen shed visits and I recall Toton, Stapleford & Sandiacre (just one), Coalville and Wellingborough (15A). The rarity at Wellingborough was a large number of engines called "Crosties" because they were fitted with "Crosti" boilers and looked very distinctive.
The question I raise is, what was the reason this type of engine, was located to Northamptonshire? I know most things have a reason and wonder if this type of boiler allowed them to do specific freight work in that area? Their five-digits began with a 9----.

bus man

18-02-2008, 08:03

Iron ore trains rings a bell but not sure

mikeG

18-02-2008, 08:37

My Ian Allan 1957/58 tells me I copped 2 Beyer-Garratts - only place I saw them was Dore and Totley cutting. Numbers 47968 and 47994.

hillsbro

18-02-2008, 10:22

My goodness, what memories! I'd almost forgotten that we called Black Fives "Mickeys" (from "mixed traffic", I think). None of my school pals were posh enough to go very far on holidays, such as to resorts outside the E.R. and L.M.R. At least, not until 1963 when my pal John Hissett came back from Weston-super-Mare with a book full of exotic numbers that turned us all green with envy. I went there in 1966 but I think that steam had finished on the W.R. by that time - at least, I don’t recall seeing much apart from some rare diesel-hydraulics.
Sweetcheeks is quite right - nowadays we can see locos hauling specials (and in November for example, Mrs hillsbro and I went on the "Cheshireman" from Scunthorpe to Chester and back behind 60009 Union of South Africa) but there's nothing quite like seeing a heavy freight loco hauling a long train up a gradient. I had a taste of this, two decades after steam finished in Britain when I went to China. Our "Yorkshire Tours" group leader was a steam fan, and so when taking his tourists, say, from the Ming Tombs to the Marco Polo Bridge near Beijing the coach would "accidentally" pass a major junction where we would stop to see huge (and I mean HUGE) steam locos hauling heavy coal trains. The best we can do now is to watch films or listen to "Transacord" recordings of this sort of activity.
Beyer-Garratts were just a bit before my time, but I once worked with an ex-fireman who had fired 69999 on the Penistone-Wath line before it was electrified. Here’s a photo of the loco in LNER days, as No 2395: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thewoodheadsite.org.uk/MotivePower/Garratt.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thewoodheadsite.org.uk/MotivePower/BeyerGarratt.htm&h=320&w=500&sz=33&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=suzxzwKTUt0SbM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D69999%2Bbeyer%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cr %3DcountryUK%257CcountryGB%26sa%3DN%26ie%3DUTF-8 There were more Beyer-Garratts on the Midland Region, as MikeG notes - the class of 29 were shedded at 18A Toton and 18C Hasland. All had gone by 1958 as my "combined" confirms, as had 69999 - this would have been redundant after the line was electrified in 1954.
The Coronations were indeed big, Runningman, in particular they were long - here’s a photo of City of Sheffield without its windshields (it was never streamlined): http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/6249CityofSheffield.jpg
I hadn’t realised that A4s came into Sheffield Victoria from London - presumably the football specials went via Retford, as A4 drivers wouldn’t know the ex-G.C. line. I remember, in c. 1957, my older brother Roy telling me that he’d heard that an A4 would "definitely" be pulling the Master Cutler the next (Saturday) morning. I told our dad, and Roy rather sheepishly backed me up. Dad and I got up early and went on his motorbike to the station, bought platform tickets from the machine - and saw … an A3. It was a leg-pull, and Roy got a good telling off from both dad and me (especially as I hadn't even copped the A3 - Sir Frederick Banbury).
The V2s were a class apart. At Bernard Road you could always tell when a V2 was about to emerge from the cutting - they had a distinctive exhaust sound, with blasts in groups of 3 (my sister, who once went with us and was bored stiff most of the time except when we produced the Tizer, sandwiches and a bun, said it sounded like "a waltz rather than a quick-step").
I well remember the Crosti-boilered 9Fs, CHAIRBOY, but didn’t often see them. My 1958-59 "combined" confirms that they were numbered 92020 to 92029 and they were all allocated to 15A Wellingborough. Perhaps the Crosti boilers required special maintenance skills, so they were all put in the same area where suitable skills were available, or maybe the Crosti boilers made them suitable for a particular type of working. I imagine they would have been used to haul heavy trains up the Sharnbrook etc gradients. For a photo, go to this page and scroll down to "Great Britain" near the bottom: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/francocrosti/class741.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/francocrosti/francocrosti.htm&h=259&w=600&sz=22&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=TC3BdDulqzAczM:&tbnh=58&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522crosti%2Bboiler%2522%2B9f%26um%3 D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ie%3DUTF-8
The iron ore trains that bus_man is thinking of might be the ones on Tyneside. I remember seeing a note that some 9Fs were “fitted with air pumps for working Tyne Dock - Consett iron ore trains”. A Google search produced this page, which includes the statement (under '1965') that the "ten dedicated 9F's had also required Westinghouse Air pumps prior to taking over this run from the NER Q7 0-8-0's": http://www.derbysulzers.com/24102.html
Memories…

CHAIRBOY

18-02-2008, 10:53

Cor H, caused you some work there by mentioning the Crosti's! You brought back memories of the Tyne Dock engines, Consett, Pelaw etc. Thanks for all the links.
We've done Immingham, Tyne etc. - I recall there was something different at Fleetwood but can't remember what? Glad you remember the term "Mickeys", do you remember the Jinty?
Regarding the link of the publications, I remember buying a plastic Ian Allen cover (bit like a cheque book cover) which slipped round the combined. We had to cover our school books, why not the cherished Combined?
V2's - was that the class that had a few named eg Green Arrows (?) Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, Green Howards, Durham Light Infantry etc?
Talking of gradients - Lickey Incline near Bromsgrove - often double headed? Only last night did I check out Beattock summit and found a Coronation at the helm - possibly Duchess of Bucchleuch.
Shap was another snappers' pradise.

CHAIRBOY

18-02-2008, 12:33

Today's Look North news is featuring steam engines No.51218, 41241 and 90733.
40th anniversary of the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway - some weak feature about "The Railway Children".

hillsbro

18-02-2008, 15:12

Glad you remember the term "Mickeys", do you remember the Jinty?
Indeed - my Tri-ang OO gauge train set included a model Jinty. The number was 47606 - see for example http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.modelfair.com/acatalog/tr100519.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.modelfair.com/acatalog/Modelfair_Triang_British_Outline_Locomotives__104. html&h=187&w=250&sz=5&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=on77vT6lPThbXM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtri-ang%2B47606%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ie%3DUTF-8 and scroll down.

Regarding the link of the publications, I remember buying a plastic Ian Allen cover (bit like a cheque book cover) which slipped round the combined.

It would have looked like this: http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/Cover.jpg

This cover was extra long to wrap around the "combined"; the others were smaller for individual ABC books. I think you could get different colours for the different regions. My older sister worked in art & design and she was able to emboss my name on the front; you can just see the original inscription "Ian Allan / ABC BINDER / COMBINED"

Yes - Green Arrow was the first (now preserved) member of the V2 class. What intrigued me about this class was the fact that although few engines were named, they made up for it by having such long names, such as "The Green Howard, Alexandra, Princess of Wales’s Own Yorkshire Regiment".

I had wondered if the Beyer-Garratts worked as banking engines on the Lickey incline, but a web search didn’t find any mention of this. They certainly used very heavy locos which could often be seen waiting for "business" at Bromsgrove.

CHAIRBOY

18-02-2008, 17:46

Brilliant Hillsbro, thanks for those. My cover was the precise colour as in the link. I didn't find the Jinty very remarkable but I guess we all liked different things. LMR was all too familiar and I guess we yearned for the unobtainable - SR, GWR and perhaps Scottish.

johnpm

18-02-2008, 18:42

I have just picked up this thread and there has obviously been a lot said already.
I started my interest in trainspotting on the wall of Holywell Rd ( not far from my grandma's on Rothay Rd) adjacent to Brightside Station near where in those days there was a Gas Plant ( which smelled something awful!).
Great times we had there with the "Thames Clyde Express" being the highlight I always wanted to see. I remember great delight the first time I travelled on it on a trip to Leeds.
A little older and my horizons extended to Retford where I seemed to live on some Saturdays. I recall winter days spent in the waiting room there with snow piling down outside playing shove hapenny to while away the time. The sight of an A4 rocking across the cross tracks there was a sight to behold . It wasn't unknown for them to come off !!!
Older again and off to Warrington many times - train to Manchester, then across to the other station for the train to Warrington - I felt really grown up - and the sight of large LMS Pacifics hurtling along the west coast main line was wonderful.
Great memories and friendships - Ah - nostalgia.
And yes, I still have my Ian Allen Combined book from 1960 !
John

Texas

18-02-2008, 18:51

Really Runningman, a hundred miles an hour? There is an element of truth regarding trying to get a run at the bank from Chesterfield, but usually the bobby brought you to a stand at the station starter. We relieved a football special at Chesterfield one time. The fireman had managed to lose his shovel in the firebox at Kettering and had used a platelayers shovel all the way to Chesterfield. What a performance, as Jimmy Jewel once said, I hadn't got time to complain or anything and had to carry on, up the bank, with this stupid number twelve. Needless to say we lost time, the fire a mess, a total disaster, the driver didn't help with his moaning, George 'Grandad' Taylor his name was. Never forget that.
I once was on relief turn and with a passed fireman, took a Garret, light engine to Canklow.
Interesting trip.

hillsbro

18-02-2008, 21:53

A little older and my horizons extended to Retford where I seemed to live on some Saturdays. I recall winter days spent in the waiting room there with snow piling down outside playing shove hapenny to while away the time.

Aha - so maybe it was YOU who carved the shove ha'penny goal "posts" on the table in the waiting room at Retford station! My school pal Trevor, my brother Roy and I went there one autumn Sunday in c. 1958. The trouble was that all the main line trains had been diverted due to engineering work (we all know The Dreaded Railway Sunday). I think they were going via Lincoln and Gainsborough. It wasn't much fun watching the slow trains go the other way over the crossing, so we did a couple of hours' conkering in a wood nearby and spent the rest of the time playing shove ha'penny in the waiting room...

I wonder how many other ageing spotters keep a special place on their bookshelves for their Ian Allan ABC "combined"...

hillsbro

19-02-2008, 17:26

... and here's another photo to remind former spotters of steam in Sheffield - it is ex-Holbeck Standard 5MT 73053 at Sheffield Midland on 3 June 1957. This loco had begun its working life on the G.C. line at Woodford Halse shed, but soon moved to Holbeck.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/73053.jpg

Texas

19-02-2008, 17:56

Talking about wanting to ride in a brakevan Sweetcheeks, I should think the ultimate would've been the early morning 'fish' from Grimsby to London. It used to pass G'thorpe in the early hours of the morning, A Midland compound, one fish van, and the brake. Now that moved fast, always had priority, it had special headlamps, blue, set in express combination,one over each buffer. Sometimes they had a black 5 on there, imagine, the engine was longer than the train.

Sweetcheeks

19-02-2008, 19:25

I would love to have ridden in a brake van, leaning on the "verandah", behind a loose coupled coal train on a long slow journey. One which frequently pulled into a passing loop in order to watch all the steam workings pass by. Travelling at speed is fine, but I like to look at everything en route and prefer to crawl at a snailspace! I have travelled in the cab of an 08 diesel shunter around Darnall and did some shunting on some sidings nearby...great fun as a youngster.

Runningman

21-02-2008, 20:12

Did any of you ' Anoracks ' ever go spotting to Bakewell.
Around 1957/8 I went with 2 lads, Howard and Ivo on a single decker from Sheffield. I remember as we approached Bakewell, we had sight behind a row of houses of the Jubilee
' Blake ' Our intention was to spend the day on Bakewell station, but we were instantly cleared off. Then made our way on the south side to a bridge approx 200 yds from the station where we spent the day in some lovely sunshine watching I remember a mixture of traffic.

The first sight I had of that line between Derby and Manchester was from Monsal Head.
What a view and what a surprise the first time of seeing. I still look over that valley, especially when I am out cycling. Simple words like Blimey and Wow spring to mind.
The view from the viaduct in Millers Dale is also quite spectacular. Wonder if the Navvies constructing the line had similar thoughts, probably not.

Anyone remember the Merrymakers trip from Sheffield to Dundee and passing over the Forth Bridge ?

hillsbro

21-02-2008, 21:38

Yes - I did a bit of spotting at or near Bakewell in the late 1950s. Some family friends lived at Great Longstone, and I would walk down to Hassop station. That's where I saw my first Scot - 46164 The Artists Rifleman - we didn't get Scots in Sheffield until after 1960. I saw my first "big" diesel (other than a shunter) there as well - I think it was D8402.
I'm only sorry that I never travelled along the line north of Matlock; it must have been a lovely run.

JFS305

23-02-2008, 11:45

Anyone remember the Merrymakers trip from Sheffield to Dundee and passing over the Forth Bridge ?[/QUOTE]

To Runningman

Yes I remember it well. I went on the Sheffield to Dundee trip with my Brother-in-law. It would be nice to get back to those days.
Have been reading this thread with great interest. Has brought back many memories, especially Millhouses shed and tanker 82

athy

23-02-2008, 12:10

Butler-Henderson, as the name of the loco class suggests, was a director of the Great Central Railway. The family still exists: I taught two Butler-Hendersons, great-grandchildren of the great man I think, at a prep school in Sussex a few years ago. That loco, which I remember seeing at Victoria Station shortly before its withdrawal, is now preserved, and I remember the excitement with which Ben and Jason B-H (the two boys whom I taught) told me one Monday that over the weekend they had been to see "their" engine. I think it's on the Great Central's preserved stretch at Loughborough. The family has noble connections: the boys' aunt has the hereditary title of Lady Butler.
There used to be a quaint tramway round these parts: the Wisbech & Upwell Tramway. It closed many years before I moved to these oarts, but you can still see part of the track bed, and at least one of its little station buildings survives, in use as a garden shed behind a house on a new road called Tramways!

hillsbro

23-02-2008, 13:52

Oh – the Wisbech & Upwell Tramway… Somewhere I have two books about the line, which I remember seeing in 1960 when I was on a fishing holiday with a much-loved great-uncle. The line’s main raison d’être seems to have been transporting fruit and potatoes away from the area, and coal in the opposite direction. With limited opportunities for carrying other kinds of freight, and in a fairly sparsely-inhabited district, it could never be very profitable in its own right (despite "feeding" goods and passengers into and from the main lines) and passenger services were withdrawn in 1927. The line survived the first round of Beeching cuts but closed in 1966. In 1953, one of its passenger coaches had been used for filming the Ealing comedy The Titfield Thunderbolt.
It’s interesting to know about Butler-Henderson, and that the loco. has been preserved; it was often seen on light passenger duties at Victoria Station, along with stablemates Mons, Zeebrugge etc. I seem to remember seeing a mention of someone with the surname Butler-Henderson but I can't remember where or when.

Cliffhanger

23-02-2008, 13:53

You're right Athy. And of course Vicky Butler-Henderson the car programme presenter is also related I beleive.

CHAIRBOY

23-02-2008, 14:31

http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/locos/e506.htm

I knew it was a "director" but this link tells me he was a director of the railway.

bus man

23-02-2008, 17:01

Towards the end the W&UT used diesel shunters with metal skirts fitted the lines were at the side of the road and there were no fences.

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisbech_and_Upwell_Tramway

Some nice photos
http://www.lner.info/co/GER/wisbech/stock.shtml

hillsbro

23-02-2008, 17:27

Yes, bus man, it was one of the diesel shunters that I saw in my schooldays, pulling three or four wagons. I would love to have seen one of the old engines - to this day I've only ever seen film of steam tram engines working. All the same, my train-spotting pals were quite envious of the "rare" shunter number that I'd underlined in my book. Also during my 1960 holiday, Uncle Joe took my brother and me for a day's fishing at Stonea, between March and Ely, in the "sixteen-foot drain". The March-Ely main line crosses the water where we were fishing, so naturally I positioned myself within easy spotting distance of the bridge. I only caught tiddlers that day, but my brother caught a three-pound bream and I copped 70012 John of Gaunt on the Harwich boat train! Happy days.

hillsbro

25-02-2008, 13:49

Non-spotters used to say that I seemed to be speaking in a foreign language. Here’s a short version of a 1950s train-spotting glossary (all additions welcome!)

Austerity A heavy freight loco built by the Ministry of Supply during wartime
Banker A heavy loco that helped goods trains up inclines
Black 5 An ex-LMS mixed traffic loco, cf. "Mickey"
Brit A BR passenger loco, "Britannia" class
Bug car Diesel multiple unit
to bunk to sneak round a shed without the foreman seeing you
to cab To be invited on to the footplate of a loco in steam
to cabbage To underline the number of a loco that you hadn't seen
Combined the combined volume of "British Railways Locomotives" published by Ian Allan
Compound An ex-LMS 3-cylinder compound loco
to cop to see a loco that you hadn't seen before
Crab An ex-LMS mixed traffic loco
Director An ex-GCR 4-4-0 passenger loco of the "Large Director" type, some named after directors of the railway
double header two engines pulling a train
Jinty An ex-LMS Fowler 0-6-0 tank engine
Jube An ex-LMS passenger loco of the "Jubilee" class
marking off underlining numbers in your book of engines you had seen
Mickey An ex-LMS mixed traffic loco, cf. "Black 5"
Namer A named locomotive
Nine F The large, 2-10-0 freight locos that were the only ones with the 9F power classification
Pate An ex-LMS passenger loco "Patriot" class
the Plant Doncaster locomotive works
Sandringham An ex-LNER Class B17 loco
Scot An ex-LMS passenger loco of the "Royal Scot" class
Streak An ex-LNER Gresley A4 Pacific (that is, a big, fast passenger loco to the uninitiated)
Unnamed streak No 60700, an experimental LNER class W1 loco, formerly numbered 10100. It was shamelessly scrapped.
Wessie The LNWR or one of its locos

mikeG

25-02-2008, 14:17

Consul - ex LMS 2-8-0 goods loco

Arfer Mo

25-02-2008, 15:01

Hey you Railway nuts, let's hear it for Grimesthorpe(19A). That's where all the real graft was.
Hi Did you ever use the canteen at grimey sheds' lworked there for a while, and there was always a brag or pontoon school going on one the end table near the fire, lost all my spends every week till l left, by the way l'm talking shortly after the Blitz, so a long time ago, Cheers ARTHUR.

Arfer Mo

25-02-2008, 15:10

bus man

25-02-2008, 17:03

Texas

25-02-2008, 18:19

hillsbro

25-02-2008, 18:35

Yes, the "Crabs" had a parallel boiler. Their BR numbers were in the 427xx and 428xx range; here's a picture of one: http://www.krm.org.uk/myster18.jpg
I wasn't familiar with rocker bars or, I suspect, many other "technical terms" used by train crews. On a recent steam excursion (60009 Union of South Africa on a run from Lincolnshire to Chester and back), Mrs hillsbro and I met a dyed-in-the-wool railwayman who had fired steam locos and driven diesels - it was fascinating to hear his recollections and to see how they compared with mine as an ex-spotter.

Runningman

25-02-2008, 20:54

Do any of you ex BR lads who have contributed to this thread or those of you who have just been ' Piking ' remember a Ray Stevenson who was a Fireman at Darnall and worked previously at Neepsend. He left BR in 1951 and went to work for Dan Bradbury Motor Cycles on London Road

mikeG

26-02-2008, 14:03

bus man

26-02-2008, 21:09

The 'Steam Days' mag is very interesting. Thanks Bus Man. Just been reading about the North Devon Line. I stayed in Ilfracombe a few times in the 50's but always travelled in Dad's car. I'm sure a trip from Exeter behind a Merchant Navy class would have been good fun. Bit late now.

You naughty boy you were supposed to be reading the article on Sheffield Sheds not devon - stand in the naughty corner.

I am so pleased that so many of you have enjoyed the articel and have contributed to this thread soem of the memories coming out are amasing.

Just as an aside I passed millhouses shed today on the train most of the brick work as been demolished and jsut the frame is left
RIP

Texas

27-02-2008, 17:51

Runningman mentions Neepsend shed. I dont suppose for one minute there's anything left of that. My grandfather took me for a look around, it must've been about 1937. I was about 4 years old. He used to work from there, being a driver at the time. I know it's been closed for years. If I remember right it was just straight roads over pits, I cant remember if there was a turntable outside or not.

Arfer Mo

27-02-2008, 21:32

Yes Arfur, I too played three and nine card brag in the canteen. I was there in '51 for a few weeks as a cleaner, then the Army. When I came out I was registered and went more or less straight into firing. I think you said you were a steam raiser, didn't you?
I packed it in after about 3 years, although I loved the job it, didn't do anything for my social life. Being not quite stable in those days I went as a Guard for a couple of years, which, you'll agree, was just the same, hours wise. What did my head in was being on PM's one week, at 11/59, and AMs the following week at a minute past midnight.
I like your list Hillsboro. Crabs, they had a cylindrical boiler didn't they? Not tapered like a Black 5. Do you remember the British Railway's class 2 and 4F's? We called them rocker bars, owing to the design of the bars in the firebox. They could be operated by a leaver on the front, (that's the footplate) but we'll not go into that.
Hi Texas No l said l was a bar lad only lasted 3mths me and my mate had done our quota and went down the line on to a loco getting up steam out of the way of THE foremanTHINK HIS NAME WAS JACK RAWLINGS pulled over the blackout cover whichwas used during the war A MISTAKE Jack was curious why the cover was on , caught us fast asleep , the boss gave us a no;1 form and suspension for three days, which gave me a chance to find a new job, my mate went on to be a cleaner ,his name Jack Watson did you ever come across him . Cheers Arthur.

hillsbro

07-03-2008, 20:24

Here's an image that will awaken a few memories among ex-trainspotters; a page from a 1954 bus guide showing departures from Sheffield Victoria. Included are the Liverpool-Harwich boat train (both directions) and trains stopping at long-gone stations such as Oughty Bridge, Kilnhurst Central, Torksey, Scawby and Staveley Central.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/1954Timteable-1.jpg

KIWI

09-03-2008, 06:19

Hi Did you ever use the canteen at grimey sheds' lworked there for a while, and there was always a brag or pontoon school going on one the end table near the fire, lost all my spends every week till l left, by the way l'm talking shortly after the Blitz, so a long time ago, Cheers ARTHUR.

Hi Arthur, I used to work at Grimesthorp and as you said i spent many hours in the canteen playing cards mainly solo,this was about 1950. there was two very large ladies, (sisters in fact) running the canteen then and they were there years before me their names were Mary and Lucy, perhaps you remember them? I was a boilersmith there at the time making and repairing these steam engines so these train spotters could enjoy their pastimes(good on them)

Texas

09-03-2008, 18:23

And BIG girls too.

manaman

12-03-2008, 01:15

shawsimo1

19-03-2008, 21:14

Hi There, please could you tell me what you mean by Guylees was your usual haunt. I am trying to seek informatiom about my grandfather, who ran a factory in Sheffield, they made chucks, I think Jacbos bought them out.. Is that what you where refurring too?

Dogdyke? I wasn't an angler but on Sunday morning at about 5am when getting back from a Wednesday game in the south, the Victoria station approach was thronged with fishermen going to catch their trains.
I used to catch the 5.42pm from Victoria to Retford when a London team had played in Sheffield to travel on their London train and get autographs. Ron Springett used to travel on this train.
We used to visit Canklow, Barrow Hill and Rowsley on our bikes. The return half-fare to Doncaster was 1s 8d but I've cycled there as a teenager with the sole purpose of climbing up the paint shop wall at Doncaster plant. My last A1 was in the window, Kingfisher (despite my time in Edinburgh). Do you remember ever going over North Bridge at Doncaster to near a canal that overlooked the back of the plant? St.James's Bridge was brilliant for spotting. If we went the other way, it was 4/6d half return to Manchester London Road and then a further 3/6d to Crewe - that was big stuff! Crewe 5A was very difficult but Crewe South and Gresty Lane not so busy. In Sheffield, Archer Road steps, by Guylee's, was my usual haunt - unless word got round something special was on the GC line but I have been to the Bernard Road location with bino's.

CHAIRBOY

19-03-2008, 21:24

Adjacent to the railway steps which led to the MPD (sheds) was Guylee's factory which, as you say, I believe became Jacobs. The trainspotters used to stand either on the steps or the path (which was fenced off from the railway) - although this was technically British Rail property. The alternative was to stand at one corner of the bridge so you could get the numbers or take photos from a wider angle. The factory was immediately behind as we faced the four rail tracks.

I should add this was up to 1964 at most!

bus man

19-03-2008, 21:28

Guylees / Jacobs is now known as the the south west centre, the railings are still there and I think the steps are but I will have alook

hillsbro

20-03-2008, 19:45

Hi Hillsbro',
The Liverpool-Harwich boat train brings back many happy memories. We used to catch this train on the first Saturday of the school summer holidays in the early 50's. It was usually pulled by a B1. We would get off at Spalding, and then catch the tank hauled two coach non-corridor local train running on the single line between Spalding and Kings Lynn. We used to get off at Long Sutton to stay with relatives for a whole six weeks.
It was nice to breathe unpolluted air. At the end of the holiday we would do the journey in reverse.
Happy Days.

Indeed it was nice to breath the unpolluted air in rural Norfolk. I only caught the boat train once, in 1960 when a much-loved bachelor great-uncle (Joe Betts, 1906-1985) took my brother and me for a fishing holiday. We took the boat train to March, where we stayed in a B & B (bowl & jug for getting washed, earth privy across the yard, friendly landlady, superb breakfast). The train was pulled by 70042 Lord Roberts - by the late 1950s the boat train was normally pulled by a Brit from Stratford shed, though they substituted a B1 from time to time. The last time I caught the "descendant" of the boat train it was a 2-car DMU that started at Manchester. Times change.

bus man

20-03-2008, 21:16

Thought some of you old gricers (bet you wernt called that in the 50's) make like to know that a steam special will be in the area on saturday.

Unfortunatley it wont be on the mainline through sheffield as it will go back line ( and the people reading this thread will know what I mean ) you may find the link usefull as it lists steam workings in the uk

I am very please that the above thread - which I started - as proved so popular.

Dutchess of sutherland will be in the area on Saturday(22nd March) working a leicester - york train

Chesterfield Stn 1013 (1746)
Barrow Hill N Jn 1022-1042 (1717-1740) water
Aldwarke Jn 1106 (1657)

York 1214 -16oo

Times in brakcetgs ( ) are for the south bound journey times without brackets are for the north bound journey

http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t08/t0322d.htm

johnpm

21-03-2008, 06:17

hillsbro

21-03-2008, 07:18

johnpm

21-03-2008, 08:08

manaman

22-03-2008, 01:12

Here are the relevant pages from the Midland Station departures. The Devonian left at 11-19 am and the up Thames-Clyde Express at 3-47 pm (it's hard to see due to tight binding).
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/1954Midlandtimetable1.jpg
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/1954Midlandtimetable2.jpg

Hi Hillsbro,
This also brings back memories of the 50's. We used to rush to get dried off and dressed after the school swimming lessons at the Heeley Baths. The object was to try and "cop" the Thames-Clyde Express as it passed through Heeley. It was usually headed by a Jubilee in those days.
More Happy Days.

hillsbro

22-03-2008, 06:04

Indeed, the Jubilees were the "cream" of the express passenger locos that we saw in Sheffield until about 1961 when some Scots and Patriots were displaced by diesels on the West Coast main line etc. There was also the "Waverley" which in the early 1960s we used to see after school. It ran from Edinburgh to London via Carlisle, and the up train must have called at Sheffield between about 4-30 and 5 pm, but there is no mention of it in the 1954 timetable - maybe it didn't begin to run until later.

mozzie

03-07-2008, 14:12

These Were A Common Sight On The Ex Lms Line To Sheffield Which Went Between Eckington And Renishaw. I Spent Many Hours During My Childhood Alternating Between This Line And The Ex Gc Line To Marylebone. I Always Used To Watch The Master Cutler On Its Way To London In The Morning Usually Headed By An A3.

hillsbro

03-07-2008, 14:30

Welcome to the forum, mozzie! Indeed the LMS line near Eckington was a good place for spotting locos. Old-time railwaymen used to refer to it as the "Old Road" as it was the route of the North Midland line from Derby to Leeds, before Bradway Tunnel allowed LMS services to pass through Sheffield. The Master Cutler was usually an A3 (60102 Sir Frederick Banbury was a "regular" on the service). Very occasionally they would turn out a V2 or even a B1. Living in Hillsborough I only rarely ventured to the Eckington/Renishaw/Killamarsh area, but I do remember one summer Saturday in 1962 when I went by train to stay with relatives in Lincoln. The route via Retford must have been very busy, as the B1-hauled train went via Killamarsh and then on to Warsop and Edwinstowe, crossing the Trent at Tuxford and then into Lincoln via Skellingthorpe. Within a few years, most of this route was closed.

bus man

03-07-2008, 17:21

Sorry this isnt a jubillee :

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/COMPACT1426.jpg

thought you would enjoy it , it was taken last sunday evening at around 2130 hours so there wasnt a lot of light. It was working Keighley - Stockport vie hope valley to celebrate the 40th aniversary of the K.W.V.R.

SORRY TECHNICAL PROBLEM CANT PROVIDE LINK

bus man

03-07-2008, 17:25

Sorry that this is not a jubillee

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/COMPACT1426.jpg
However, thought some of you may enjoy it , it was last sunday at heelly loop the light was a low as it was around 930am and the loco was slipping like hell.

bus man

03-07-2008, 17:29

Sorry I couldnt resist this shot

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/COMPACT1428.jpg

How many of you went down these steps and returned up with a clip round the ear from the shed forman !!!

hillsbro

03-07-2008, 19:48

Nice pictures, bus man! I might well have copped the Black 5... I remember those steps very well; somehow I usually only went down them - my departure from the shed was normally past the coaling plant and along the track to Millhouses & Ecclesall station, often with an irate foreman in hot pursuit...

I'm only sorry I didn't have a camera in those days, but the memories are crystal clear - copping Clan Stewart and Achilles (both ex-Polmadie) on the Night Scotsman, cabbing 43032 in steam thanks to a friendly driver, watching 41209 have a minor overhaul and being given the technical details by the fitter, etc. etc.

bus man

03-07-2008, 20:20

If the trees hadnt been so bad you would have actully seen the black 5 through the railings but my arty shot didnt work

Runningman

06-07-2008, 19:23

Very enjoyable reading this thread. I often ask myself why I spent so much time on those steps at Archer Road, even on very warm summer days in the 6 weeks holiday. Use to catch the tram up from Highfields, probably 1 or 2 old pence.
4 tracks then, up and down Mancs, up and down London. Semaphore signals and no continuous welded rails. Always plenty of activity and the expectation of seeing a loco away from its usual locations. On some very rare occasions a Beyer Garratt would come through and they were a very impressive looking machine. I would go up to the shop on the corner of Archer Rd and Ulverston Rd for a penny lolly, or climb over the wall where the metal steps go down the bank on the Sheaf Valley Walk and swing on a tree rope fastened up by the local kids.
There is an S&T pole still in situ at the top of those steps, which will probably fall over before someone decides to remove it.
The only names I remember from those days ( late 50's ) would be Howard Alcock and a lad with the surname Hawksworth. Eh, what garbage we store in the depths of our mind.

CHAIRBOY

06-07-2008, 19:39

That name Alcock has a ring to it. I can remember Peter Fox who now has a transport role, I believe. There was a lad called Scholey who like myself also collected autographs. Howard Roney of the butchers was a collector. One of my mates with bikes was Lance Bridge who sadly died a few years ago. Then there were two other lads; Megson, a Wednesdayite who went to Rowlinson and Wild of Abbeydale Boys.
I honestly wouldn't have recognised the steps of about 45 years ago when Guylee's was adjacent to them. If it rained, we went under the steps.
Archer Road and St. James's Bridge at Doncaster - what thrills!

bus man

06-07-2008, 19:46

My next job : photograph the pole - well officer I was reading sheffield forum you see ...........................................

Runningman

06-07-2008, 19:51

Hi Chairboy and thanks for the reply. I only remember Howard Alcock, because we once went on the bus to Bakewell for a days spotting, along with a lad called Ivo. In later years, Howard played at bowls for Millhouses. He lived on either Plymouth or Lynmouth Rd. The other lad, Hawksworth had some connection in later years with either St Johns or the Red Cross. I don't suppose the names of all those lads that frequented the steps was of any consequence to us all, unless of course he was a close friend. I don't think I am exagerating, when I say at busy times, there could be around 30 / 40 lads all armed with pens / pencils, notepads and an Ian Allan book. ' Eh, look at him, he's gorra combined edition ' Occasionally the railway police appeared, cleared us all away. We watched from a distance and then went back.

hillsbro

06-07-2008, 19:55

One of my mates with bikes was Lance Bridge who sadly died a few years ago. ... If it rained, we went under the steps.
Archer Road and St. James's Bridge at Doncaster - what thrills!

Yes - Lance Bridge, I had almost forgotten but now I remember him and his bike. Indeed, he died about five years ago; I saw it in the Star, he was only 58. Archer Road, Bernard Road, St James' Bridge - all regular haunts. I remember a couple of years ago, someone on BBC's "Look North" programme said that "Doncaster has only ever had one railway station...". Goodness knows how many phone calls and emails they had about that. I think St James's Bridge was mainly used for specials during race meetings but it might have had the odd scheduled service.

CHAIRBOY

06-07-2008, 20:01

Yep, I tend to agree with that. It wasn't very often the railway police came. We either stood on the steps on on the path at the bottom where you weren't on he lines as the wooden fence was there. There was no mischief, it was banter, deliberation as to what was due and what might be pulling it? The chat was what was on Darnall shed or waiting to take the boat train back to East Anglia.
I found the London bound trains the best as they powered up the hill. The acceleration between the bridges of Woodseats Road and Archer Road and the destination boards on the train. Glasgow St.Enoch - London. Coming before the widespread use of air travel, you just yearned to be on-board those trains - even though they were packed with people standing in those corridors outside the compartments. On cold days, it was something to warm the cockles!

hillsbro

06-07-2008, 20:15

I just saw a lovely old photo on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Railway-Loco-Postcard-LNER-C4-Atlantic-5262-SHEFFIELD_W0QQitemZ130236589259QQcmdZViewItem?hash =item130236589259&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C65%3A10&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

My guess is that it's a pre-war photo and the C4 is on a stopping service to Nottingham Victoria.

Texas

02-08-2008, 18:43

Nice to see the 'Tornado' A1 Pacific up and going. Does the heart and soul good to see something like this nowadays.

CHAIRBOY

04-08-2008, 18:26

Blue Peter and Barrow Hill
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Railway-shed-steams-on-to.4331647.jp

60532 Blue Peter - more memories
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=60532+blue+peter&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7;

CHAIRBOY

13-10-2008, 16:56

Nice to see the 'Tornado' A1 Pacific up and going. Does the heart and soul good to see something like this nowadays.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southyorkshire/content/articles/2008/10/09/absolutely_chuffed_steam_engine_tom_ingall_feature .shtml

Cliffhanger

13-10-2008, 17:25

I was on the first passenger trip at the Great Central. Pleased to have put some money in the project to help make it happen.

Texas

17-10-2008, 18:29

Thanks Chairboy, for the tip-off about the NEW A1. It was good to see something uplifting for a change. The only jarring note would probably be the boiler being made in Germany, but then again beggers can't be choosers. They did a brilliant job, and it looks magnificent.

Runningman

17-10-2008, 21:28

CHAIRBOY

17-10-2008, 21:40

Good evening fellow ' Anoraks '

Now tell me please, where can my Grandson take me to see Tornado during the forthcoming half term holiday.
I have sharpened my pencil, note pad is ready, shall have to find somewhere that sells Tizer. Must find my old leather satchel to carry my jam sandwiches.

The weather's turning. Methinks the thermos should replace the Tizer! Don't forget yer hanky to remove the coal dust from your eyes.
I think half-term holiday is pushing it! I heard it had got to go to the Paint Shop for the livery. Cycle to Donny and climb on your crossbar to get up the Plant wall! Seriously, I think it was heading to York for such.

hillsbro

17-10-2008, 22:27

Must find my old leather satchel to carry my jam sandwiches.

If you can't find it, I'll lend you my duffel bag...

bus man

18-10-2008, 06:54

It is currently at GCR at Loughborough it got there by road - a A1 on the A1 - there are sugestions it will move to York via rail however, I suspect this will be a hush hush move as the A1 steam trust and BTP are very very concerned that if the press get hold of the times then it be become a free for all with non anoracks on the tracks with a possible repeat of the Millhouses incident.

I will try and let you know whats happening but i may not know myself

The millhouses incident took place around 10 -16 years ago the times of a steam train were published by local media so there were lots of people a photo appeared in the enthusiast press of a woman in a pink dress stood with camera on the up line

bus man

18-10-2008, 06:56

Good evening fellow ' Anoracks '

Now tell me please, where can my Grandson take me to see Tornado during the forthcoming half term holiday.
I have sharpened my pencil, note pad is ready, shall have to find somewhere that sells Tizer. Must find my old leather satchel to carry my jam sandwiches.

Bit worried about above post you should be taking your Grandson not the other way round but the most worrying thing is you havnt mentioned your ABC or your short trousers

bus man

18-10-2008, 07:09

hillsbro

18-10-2008, 10:14

That's good to know, bus man - I just found this photo on the museum's website: http://www.tramway.co.uk/images/Tram%20Fleet/14.jpg Note the old BR "lion over wheel" logo.

Cliffhanger

18-10-2008, 11:54

Good evening fellow ' Anoracks '

Now tell me please, where can my Grandson take me to see Tornado during the forthcoming half term holiday.
I have sharpened my pencil, note pad is ready, shall have to find somewhere that sells Tizer. Must find my old leather satchel to carry my jam sandwiches.

You can try the A1 website A1steam.com. IIRC it's now on its way to York NRM to take centre stage in an exhibition followed by main line trials and painting into LNER green.

bus man

18-10-2008, 17:40

Someone said that tornado was due to go to york end of november.

Due to bradway tunnell been shut I went to chesterfield from sheffield today via beighton. Interesting journey some one as stollen : nunnery sidings, woodburn is no longer a triangle, station buildings at darnall, some sidings at woodhouse lots or sidings to the old orgreave coaking plant, plus sidings at barrow hill - very intersting journey its amasing how much green there is fields etc as soon as you reach darnall

Runningman

19-10-2008, 20:15

Good evening CHAIRBOY, hillsbro, bus man and Cliffhanger

CHAIRBOY

Thanks for the advice re taking the Thermos, but do you know I could never stomach flask tea and the brew always seemed to be tainted and cold when I eventually got round to drinking it. Never seemed to remember a hanky years ago. Keep quiet, the H&S crew could make the carrying of such an item a legal necessity whilst hanging out of the window of a steam hauled train.
Never went to Donny on the bike. Used to catch the tram down into the Wicker, climb the steps, pay 1s 8d for a return to Donny and look forward to a day of unbelievable sights and sounds.

hillsbro

Duffel bags were a b----y nuisance. Would never stay on your shoulder, so you placed the cord around your neck where it got on your nerves all day !

bus man

Thanks for your advice on the possible location, looks like my idea of taking him ( sorry , him taking me ) may be a non starter.
Now I am 62, so I want someone young and active to look after me and at 5 year old my grandson fits the bill !
Todays kids have never experienced the delights of short trousers, especially on a cold winters day sat on the Bridge at ' Jimmys '

Cliffhanger

Thanks for the advice re the location of Tornado

Mom and Dad would have gone beserk if they had known about that Sunday when we caught the train to Mexborough, went round the shed, then caught the bus to Donny.
First around the shed, then over to the Plant, where a climb over the wall gave us access, then back over the wall and home on the train and tram. Had a good day son ? Great Mom, can I go again next week ?

hillsbro

19-10-2008, 21:01

CHAIRBOY

20-10-2008, 06:12

My final A4 was from the paint shop wall/window, Kingfisher, with that oval badge on the side of orange and light blue of the bird. I remember the 1s 8d fare as clearly as the 4s 6d to Manchester London Road, dash to the ticket office and buy a 3s 6d return to Crewe.
I had a school satchel which had to remain for that purpose so I had an Army Stores' haversack, although I did possess a duffel bag as well as the coat!
Doncaster sheds was up towards Balby Road, I think, just beyond the left-hand curve visible at the south end from St.James's Bridge. The front line often disappointed with a line of "austerites" but it was always worth the visit, if only for the chat. There was a wire-netting fence which allowed you to view. Many years later, I saw a pupil's book with wire-netting spelt (yanetin)!
I have raised this point before and am surprised with such avid spotters on board, nobody has substantiated it. There was a Sheffield Locospotters' Club run by a man called Charlie Foster who lived at Gleadless. Can't remember the subs but it was fantastic value. A coach would leave LMS at midnight on the Saturday and you'd arrive at your destination early Sunday morning ready to 'do' the London sheds or Bristol area etc./Swindon Works. Even more local trips around Notts and Coalville areas were done. It was great value and the 'underlining' took well into the following week!
Hillsbro has made well this point before about a discipline this instilled and it certainly enriched my UK geography. Nine Elms, Hither Green, Temple Meads started to mean something and I am amazed at the poor level of knowledge some pupils/students have of their own country. It may be dismissed as trivia but allied with a knowledge of football venues, I was soon able to form a mental picture of counties and capital county towns, eg Trowbridge.
On sporting trips to London on Saturdays, the evenings were spent on stations, either autograph hunting or spotting - or even doing a shed - Old Oak Common for one, four massive roundhouses in one!
When there was the Paddington disaster of 2004, that trip to 81A ensured I knew the surrounding area of Ladbroke Grove and could identify with the Sky News story. Then there was the excitement of the monthly TI being bought on the way to school, dying for break in order to glimpse it.
As hillsbro said, there were many positives to come from trainspotting and I haven't mentioned photography yet.

hillsbro

20-10-2008, 07:38

... Doncaster sheds was up towards Balby Road, I think, just beyond the left-hand curve visible at the south end from St.James's Bridge.

That's right, CHAIRBOY, and to judge from "multimap" there is still a small depot there, with heavy freight locos. and a scrap line with older ones - see http://www.multimap.com/maps/?hloc=GB|sheffield#map=53.50893,-1.13306|19|256&be=7684517|East&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:53.38308:-1.46487:14|sheffield|Sheffield,%20Norton,%20South% 20Yorkshire,%20England,%20S1%202

It's only when we grow up that we realise what we learned from trainspotting. A knowledge of geography certainly, and the experience of travelling aound seeing other parts of the country and abroad. But even the names of the engines taught us something, whether it be the names of Commonwealth countries or characters in literature, or famous people, regiments, football teams or Derby winners. And when last year I was in the Karoo National Park, looking at Kudu and Klipspringer, Mrs hillsbro noticed that I went all misty-eyed...

CHAIRBOY

20-10-2008, 08:19

And pronunciations - MacLeod of MacLeod, Duchess of Buccleuch et al.
There's a whole gamut of knowledge lurking behind the locos' names. The then, four mainline Glasgow stations and the areas they served. The London Underground lines and network. Fascinating knowledge and never forgotten thereafter.

hillsbro

20-10-2008, 08:35

And pronunciations - MacLeod of MacLeod, Duchess of Buccleuch et al.

Quite right, though I still don't know how to pronounce Alycidon (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kalyr.com/pictures/YorkAlycidon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kalyr.com/weblog/2004/05/&h=300&w=400&sz=37&hl=en&start=3&um=1&usg=__2I0YsjDIy1xoKvw_1cXL_mwSuGQ=&tbnid=GI09lIsn4QFOPM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalycidon%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN% 26ie%3DUTF-8)

It looks like ALIS-EYE-DON but a racing buff at school pronounced it AL-SEED...:?

CHAIRBOY

20-10-2008, 09:49

Quite right, though I still don't know how to pronounce Alycidon (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kalyr.com/pictures/YorkAlycidon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kalyr.com/weblog/2004/05/&h=300&w=400&sz=37&hl=en&start=3&um=1&usg=__2I0YsjDIy1xoKvw_1cXL_mwSuGQ=&tbnid=GI09lIsn4QFOPM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dalycidon%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN% 26ie%3DUTF-8)

It looks like ALIS-EYE-DON but a racing buff at school pronounced it AL-SEED...:?

Got to dash but I would have said Alis-i-don but never given it any thought. Never sure when it doesn't relate to a language.

biker

20-10-2008, 15:07

Oh that's right, a half-fare (under 14) day return to Donny was 1s 8d in the late 1950s. The train would be 5 or 6 elderly coaches pulled by a Darnall B1. Usually there would be someone with a bike by the paint shop wall and so you could see what was in there. This is how I copped a rarity - 61997 McCaillin Mor on a rare visit from Scotland for a major overhaul. Does anyone remember the scrapyard near St James' Bridge with ex-WW2 tanks? If there was nothing doing on the main line you could climb in and out of the turrets. My first visit to Donny was also on a Sunday, in the summer of 1958. Copped my first streak - 60010 Dominion of Canada, complete with bell. Happy days...

We used to go to the Doncaster Plant in our pre teens.I remember being pushed up the wall to see inside the workshops when I unfortunately dislodged a house brick onto one of my friends head.The local chemist patched him up (thanks again!!).We were caught cabbing there and our names were taken by the railway police!!!!!.Another memory is being at Retford station when a streak came through at speed.We were on the wrong platform and dashed through to the other platform as it flew through.This gave a massive impression of speed.We often went on those holiday express holiday weeks from the Midland station for our family holidays and I saw a lot of trains then.I,ve still got my Ian Allen book somewhere.What innocent pre vandal days they were.

Rowlinson

20-10-2008, 20:21

Saw McCailin Mor there in 61 - it was awaiting scrapping as a non standard engine. nothing left of that end of the works now - only the old wagon shops opposite the station. Started spotting on the wall at Dore & Totley in 1959 and reached Millhouses shed steps in early 61. I think the last loco to leave Millhouses was V2 parked under repair at the bottom of No 1 road in late December 61. The shed closed on 1st Jan 62. I ended up very lucky - passed out as an engine driver on a narrow gauge line 18 months ago.

hillsbro

24-10-2008, 17:11

Preparing for a house move I found my notebook from a 9-day trip to Scotland in September 1973. A few excerpts might interest railway-oriented forummers:

Sheffield - York: unusual route - to Normanton then via Castleford and Church Fenton. D2326 scrapped beside line near Bolton-on-Dearne.

Sleeper to Aberdeen; shared a compartment with a posh Gordonstoun boy returning to school. The Aberdonian left at 10:40 - 12 coaches pulled by a Brush Type 4.

Sunday
Aberdeen - Inverness - sat at the back of the dmu and could see speedometer - train was on time all the way but always travelling 5-10 mph faster than the speed limit, so timetable requires driver to exceed limit. Touched 78 mph approaching Elgin.

Tuesday
Royal Train at Inverness, pulled by two English Electric Type 4s - Prince Andrew starting school; Queen & Duke arrived from Gordonstoun in a Range Rover.

Wednesday
Inverness - Thurso: unscheduled stop at Alness - station just reopened. Dreary landscape approaching Caithness. Train divided at Georgemas Junction.

Friday
Mallaig - Fort William: the 14:05 Glasgow train only went as far as Glenfinnan due to a viaduct being repaired - bus from there to Fort William.

Monday
Left Glasgow on the Royal Scot - nice new air-conditioned coaches. Saw an Electric loco north of Carlisle. Arrived in Carlisle early - not surprising with 5,400 h.p. Overhead wires not completed between Lancaster and Preston.

CHAIRBOY

24-10-2008, 17:42

Great memories hillsboro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_K4
I've put the whole link so that readers can focus on what appeals but I was looking at the named locos like Loch Long. Somewhere along the line, I seem to remember an Earl of Ochiltree? My youth in Scotland was a stone's throw away from Haymarket (64B) and I never made it to north of Glasgow on the West. Was very much east-coast biased and made it to Ferryhill and Kittybrewster in Aberdeen. The backcloth of those Highland shots was breathtaking and the names memorable but I had to rely on T.I. to see them.
We'll be 'doing' Caledonian MacBrayne boats next!

hillsbro

24-10-2008, 18:06

Somewhere along the line, I seem to remember an Earl of Ochiltree?

This would be 62677 Edie Ochiltree (named after a Sir Walter Scott character). It was a D11, along with other splendidly-named locos such as Luckie Mucklebackit, Bailie MacWheeble, Laird o' Balmawhapple and Wandering Willie - the last one rather appropriate for a locomotive....

I remember visiting Aberdeen in 1966 and hoping to see streaks in service, but there were none at Ferryhill and the Aberdeen-Glasgow train was diesel-hauled. But on the same day (it was a Sunday) there was an A4 in steam at Perth shed - I can't remember which one.

CHAIRBOY

24-10-2008, 18:12

This would be 62677 Edie Ochiltree (named after a Sir Walter Scott character). It was a D11, along with other splendidly-named locos such as Luckie Mucklebackit, Bailie MacWheeble, Laird o' Balmawhapple and Wandering Willie - the last rather appropriate for a locomotive....

I remember visiting Aberdeen in 1966 and hoping to see streaks in service, but there were none at Ferryhill and the Aberdeen-Glasgow train was diesel-hauled. But on the same day (it was a Sunday) there was an A4 in steam at Perth shed - I can't remember which one.

Yes, that's it - The Antiquary. What a great set of names.

Senior moment over!! Kyle of Lochalsh has just come into mind. Please remind me of the others in that class?
http://www.lochalsh.com/steam_train_kyle/
http://www.lochalsh.com/
http://www.railbrit.co.uk/Kyle_of_Lochalsh_Extension_Railway/frame.htm

CHAIRBOY

24-10-2008, 19:22

Searching for LORD OF THE ISLES and came up with this link. Click on the locos to enlarge.
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/steam/LNER/K1/pix.html

and at Mallaig http://shop.rexfeatures.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=626408

Rowlinson

24-10-2008, 19:47

Yes, that's it - The Antiquary. What a great set of names.

Senior moment over!! Kyle of Lochalsh has just come into mind. Please remind me of the others in that class?
http://www.lochalsh.com/steam_train_kyle/
http://www.lochalsh.com/
http://www.railbrit.co.uk/Kyle_of_Lochalsh_Extension_Railway/frame.htm

The Dougal Cratur; The Pirate; Jingling Geordie;Kettledrummie;Black Duncan;
Cuddie Headrigg;Jeanie Deans;Rob Roy.

hillsbro

24-10-2008, 19:59

CHAIRBOY

24-10-2008, 20:09

... and Dumbiedykes, Hal o' the Wynd, Laird o' Monkbarns, The Abbot, Peter Poundtext, The Pirate, Wizard of the Moor, Dandie Dinmont, Meg Merrilies (this was also an A1, 60115), The Great Marquess...

Apart from McCailin Mor at Doncaster, I never saw any of them as I didn't get to Scotland until February 1966, by which time most or all had been scrapped. But I remember being fascinated by the names as I looked through my Ian Allan book, and I made their acquantaince again later, as a student reading Scott novels.

Recognised Hal o' the Wynd as an A1 and it followed Meg Merrilies.
http://www.leytransport.i12.com/locolist.htm

Thanks Rowlinson - just looked up the names of the class you gave and the one I remember best was QUENTIN DURWARD

hillsbro

24-10-2008, 20:24

I'm backing Captain Gragiengelt and Kettledrummie in the Royal Scott stakes....:)

Sweetcheeks

24-10-2008, 20:35

CHAIRBOY

24-10-2008, 20:44

Also; Baron of Bradwardine, Evan Dhu, Flora MacIvor, Colonel Gardiner, Jonathan Oldbuck, Edie Ochiltree, Lord Glenallan, Lucy Ashton, Captain Craigengelt, Haystoun of Bucklaw, Hobbie Elliott, Wizard of the Moor, Malcolm Graeme, The Fiery Cross, Lord James of Douglas, Ellen Douglas, Maid of Lorn, The Lady of the Lake, Allan-Bane, Roderick Dhu, and James Fitzjames. All D11/2 and based in Scotland.

Yes - I had them in the above link, thanks http://www.leytransport.i12.com/locolist.htm
but "Lucy Ashton" caught my attention, fancy naming a loco after a journalist at The Star - Joe's daughter! :thumbsup:

An idea for a new class (I may have been beaten to it?)
Newspaper class - Stoke Sentinel, Dundee Courier, Dublin Herald, Kent Messenger, The Yorkshire Post?

hillsbro

24-10-2008, 21:09

How about Night Mail?.:P

CHAIRBOY

24-10-2008, 21:12

How about Night Mail?.:P

Indeed - what about The Irish Mail heading over Britannia Bridge?

http://www.steamtraingalleries.co.uk/irish_mail.html

hillsbro

24-10-2008, 22:48

Yes - a sort of daily express...

Dickie B

25-10-2008, 13:30

Hey you Railway nuts, let's hear it for Grimesthorpe(19A). That's where all the real graft was.

sure was graft, I started at Grimesthorpe, as a cleaner in 1948

Texas

25-10-2008, 17:27

I started as a cleaner in '51 just before I went in the military, so I didn't start properly until 1953. Do you remember any of these drivers: Colin Trippet, 'Cupid' Bannister, 'Nodder' Harper, one called 'Custard'(and you'll remember what that meant), Sid Green, 'Grandad' Taylor, 'Cock' Sheldon. They all had a nickname but I can't remember anymore. I only fired for about three years and then packed it in and went back as a Goods guard for a while. I liked the job but it played havoc with my social life.

hillsbro

25-10-2008, 18:00

I remember Colin Trippett well; he was an old friend of my father's from when they both had motorbikes in the early 1930s. And strangely enough they both died in the same month (March 1986) though Colin was older, being then 81. Colin's father, Ernest Trippett, had been a driver on the Midland Railway.

bus man

25-10-2008, 19:39

As Bradway tunnel is closed for engineering work and will remain so till early Decemember I decided to go to chesterfield from sheffield by rail last saturday .

The train went "Old Road " via darnal, beighton and barrow hill to Chesterfield, I had forgotten how steep the incline up to nunnery siding is from Midland even for me (a child of the 60s) I was sadened by what had gone : Nunnery siding , Darnal shed building at Darnal, siding everywhere especailly beighton and barrow hill, however , what did surprise me was the amount of greenery (fields etc ) between darnal and woodhouse !

Rowlinson

25-10-2008, 20:10

Yes - I had them in the above link, thanks http://www.leytransport.i12.com/locolist.htm
but "Lucy Ashton" caught my attention, fancy naming a loco after a journalist at The Star - Joe's daughter! :thumbsup:

An idea for a new class (I may have been beaten to it?)
Newspaper class - Stoke Sentinel, Dundee Courier, Dublin Herald, Kent Messenger, The Yorkshire Post?

The Green Un' might seem a bit odd.

CHAIRBOY

25-10-2008, 20:48

The Green Un' might seem a bit odd.

If I may be permitted to tell a story when the Green Un' seemed a bit odd to Londoners? Following a Wednesday game in London in the 60's, I had agreed to sell Green Un's for a paper seller called Vic Ward - who sold papers at both Sheffield grounds and was known as "Bootsie" as he had bit "10 to 2" feet.
The Green Uns were put on the 5.42pm from Sheffield Victoria to King's Cross where I was to meet them.
Bemused - the Cockey's wanted the Standard "Pink" and after a while, a PC came to ask questions. I was led to the stationmaster's office and I was let off with a wigging after providing a truthful explanation.

manaman

25-10-2008, 20:48

The Green Un' might seem a bit odd.

But the Thunderer would be most apt!

CHAIRBOY

26-10-2008, 13:52

"DOWN THE LINE" - BBC1 4.25PM Sunday 26. this is a 30 minute feature looking at line closures of the 60's. There may be variations around Yorkshire regions so if you can get digital it may pay to check. Beverley to York is one line under discussion so that may be on the E.Yorks transmitter.
I merely draw your attention to the programme.

Texas

26-10-2008, 17:19

Texas

26-10-2008, 17:25

bus man, can Woodhouse Mill sidings still be seen? They were just past a lumber yard, and they'd be on your right going toward Chesterfield.

hillsbro

26-10-2008, 17:35

Smallish world hillsbro no? I was Colin's regular mate for a while back about '54. I can't remember what link we were in but we'd get to Gowholes in the Chinley/New Mills area quite often, football specials, light engines from sheds in the Manchester area etc. We didn't have a lot to say to each other, just got on with the job. He had a dry sense of humor if I remember right. Thinking about it he could be quite funny.

A dry sense of humour - that sounds like the Colin I remember! He could be a "man of few words" but if you got him talking about something he was interested in, it was surprising how much he knew about all kinds of subjects. He was a contemporary of our neighbour Reggie Binks and they knew each other, though Reggie was an ex-LNER driver from Darnall shed.

Runningman

26-10-2008, 21:07

Evening anoracks

Anyone with up to date information on the location of A1 Tornado this week.

CHAIRBOY

27-10-2008, 06:18

Evening anoraks

Anyone with up to date information on the location of A1 Tornado this week.

http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=123

Runningman

27-10-2008, 18:06

Good evening Chairboy and thanks for that !

CHAIRBOY

27-10-2008, 19:48

Good evening Chairboy and thanks for that !

No problem Sir but I point out that my interest in railways finished 44 years ago! I love the nostalgia but that's as far as it goes. Spent most of my life working in 'communications' so pleased to be of help.

Steelyblade

31-10-2008, 10:07

Charlie Foster from Gleadless ran The Hallamshire Railway Society. In 1962 I wrote a letter applying to join, and one evening there was a knock at my front door - it was Charlie and Raymond Jackson, they’d come to vet me! Charlie is currently in a rest home in Gleadless, Sheffield.
An earlier thread mentions travelling from Sheffield to Bakewell on a bus and spending the day trainspotting on a nearby bridge on a hot sunny summer day with friends Howard & Ivo. I remember doing that and my name is Howard, so maybe that was me. I can’t recall who I went with though. I do remember the sole reason for going there was to see the Co-Bo Metrovic diesels on the special workings they had on that line, we did see a couple, and I remember being singularly unimpressed.
I lived a mile from Millhouses shed, and spent a great deal of my time by the lineside. I’m glad someone else refers to Black 5s as ‘mickeys’, I’ve never heard the name used outside the area.
Unusual locos I saw at Millhouses were V2 60835 Green Howards and A2 60516 Hycilla presumably off trains from the north east where they were based. Most unusual was another NE one, streamlined A4 60018 Sparrow Hawk passing Millhouses Park light engine, very strange as the park was south of the shed so it wasn’t as if it had come in from Doncaster. I do recall it was on a Saturday morning because I’d just got my grandma to take me, for the first time, to see a white haired old man who we knew around junior school as Mr Knight and who sold wild birds eggs from his house on Abbeydale Road South, just across from the park. That must have been 1957/58.
A couple of years later when the Royal Scots, Rebuilt Patriots and Britannias arrived on the Midland Main Line life was great. To see a Scot working hard on the 1/100 gradiant out of Sheffield, coming round the curve at Norton Hammer and into view from the Archer Road bridge, with its distinctive curved smoke deflectors, is a sight I’ll never forget.
In the twilight of steam, in 1965 I travelled to Scotland for three days armed with sandwiches, a 35mm SLR and an 8mm cine camera. I spent the first night on Carlisle station and the second night keeping toasty warm in the cab of ‘Union of South Africa’ on Aberdeen Ferryhill shed, the A4 was being prepared for the 7.30am 3-hour express to Glasgow! Now you tell that to the kids of today............

CHAIRBOY

31-10-2008, 10:53

Good call Steelyblade. Wouldn't be a bit surprised if our paths crossed in the early 60s? I remember seeing "Green Howards" at Millhouses. I am delighted that someone also recalls Charlie Foster and glad to hear he is still with us. I think that man deserves a lot of praise for his organising of trips and giving much pleasure to the youth of then, via his well-managed society. I forget to say in an earlier thread that some members journeyed down from Glasgow to be part of the Society leaving LMS station at midnight for a Southern foray! I wonder how many hours were spent at Archer Road by Guylees or under the steps when it was raining?
When we played football in Millhouses Park, the game stopped as soon as a rumble was heard in the distance.

CHAIRBOY

31-10-2008, 16:41

These are some of the names I remember from Millhouses sheds/park.
Fox, Scholey, Roney, Marsh, Judson, Hoiles twins, Bridge, Wild, Megson, Fields brothers, Gomersall.... must be many others.

bus man

01-11-2008, 19:13

The following site deals with railway signalling but should be of interest

http://www.railsigns.co.uk/home.html

CHAIRBOY

06-11-2008, 17:53

The Politics Show on Sunday 9th Nov BBC 1 may be of interest? It's not a new problem to us of the 50's and 60's but spotters in more recent weeks have been hassled by railway police and staff, merely for standing on platforms taking down numbers and photographing railway stock. One had a hand put over his lens on Leeds station, probably why it was on Look North!
However, the issue has now moved into the House of Commons, hence Sunday's feature.

bus man

06-11-2008, 18:06

This is not just hassle while I do not know the circumstances of the above incident the problem has been that the police are using the terrorist act to stop and search people on railway stations when it is obvious they are enthusiasts

The other problem is the huge grown in security staff and other railway employees including British transport police - allegedly are totally ignoring the agreed procedures for railway enthusiasts .

Admittedly sometimes the enthusiasts them selves don’t help by there attitude.

The most annoying thing about all this is as soon as there is a terrorist incident the first thing the police and security forces ask for is the photographs from enthusiasts

CHAIRBOY

06-11-2008, 18:14

TORNADO - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7712796.stm

CHAIRBOY

06-11-2008, 18:17

bus man

06-11-2008, 22:08

Bet this one isnt in your ABC's !

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/?action=view&current=COMPACT3126.jpg

Sheffield Midland station 6th November 2008 on way to barrow hill on loaded test run

Runningman

07-11-2008, 09:05

Good morning ' Anoracks ' and a big thank you to bus man for his info re ' Tornado ' arriving in Sheffield last night. Amazed at the number of folks there, yes, nostalgia is still alive and lets hope it continues.

What a stirring sight that was of a magnificent looking beast of a steam loco coming into platform 1 ! An initial smile at the sight of a web address on the side of a loco tender.
The sound of the whistle and those blasts of steam, what memories.

From memory I can't remember an A1 ever coming into the Midland. Confirmation please from someone. I saw a number of V2's coming off the York - Bristol, which then went light engine up to Totley Cutting for reversal.

Had the wife with me and couldn't get her to understand that after arrival at Barrow Hill, the engine would be taken off to proceed out front first !

A question please which arose when I was explaining to the wife how the Tornado would get from the Midland to Barrow Hill and then back towards Rotherham.

Is the curve still in situ from the Sheffield - Rotherham line onto the Old Road and if so is it still in use ?

bus man

07-11-2008, 09:11

Iam in the office at the moment so dont have the books with me but

sheffield mid - nennery darnal - woodhouse - beighton junction - barrowhill sidings

loco comes off goes into depot serviced (NOT TURNED) comes back onto the REAR of the train - but as the loco was running tender first from sheffield it is now facing right way (as the train is a test run it was permitted to run tender first)

Triain then goes back to beighton junction but then instead of turning left (for sheffield ) carries straight on and ends up at masborugh

When I get home ill give you the exact junctions etc

bus man

07-11-2008, 09:12

The num,ber of folks there was amasing (around 100) when you consider that the times were kept under wraps.

Even though there was only 100 out some did disgrace themselfes by putting tripods too near platform and endge and ignoreing requests to move them

Texas

07-11-2008, 18:19

hillsbro

07-11-2008, 18:38

Is the curve still in situ from the Sheffield - Rotherham line onto the Old Road and if so is it still in use ?

The curve just south of the old Masbrough station, which formed a short spur linking the Sheffield-Rotherham line with the Old Road is not there any more. The "new" connection to the re-born Rotherham Central station leaves the Sheffield line at about the same point where the old spur left it.

Incidentally, many years ago when Bradway Tunnel was under repair (often on winter Sundays) the diverted trains northbound from Chesterfield didn't always leave the Old Road at Woodhouse Mill and approach Nunnery from Darnall as they do now. They would go further north before turning west along the old Sheffield District Railway, passing Tinsley yard. A third way for them to leave the Old Road was of course the spur at Rotherham.

I remember one occasion when some young lads from Treeton realised that the diverted train was near to where they lived, and as it was travelling slowly they opened a carriage door and jumped out. Unfortunately one of them rolled back and lost both his legs under the train wheels...

Runningman

08-11-2008, 11:46

Hi Hillsbro and thanks for that information.

The removal of the Sheffield District Railway spur was a distinct lack of foresight.
There is a network of track in Sheffield long removed which would have contributed immensly to solving the chaos on our roads.

bus man

10-11-2008, 20:32

For The Record:

From platform 1 to down main , Nunnery Main Line Jn, Nunnery Curve then up worksop line: woodburn junction, darnall station, woodhouse station, woodhouse jn beighton engineering sidings, Beighton Station Jn, Beighton Jn (now known as up barrow hill) , junction to bolsover , barrow hill sidings

Return to
Beighton Jn , under the beighton to worksop line, woodhouse mill jn , treeton jn - removed was access to tinsley , treeton north jn remoeved, under M1, Masborough sorting sidings, ickles viaduct , over freight line to rotherham central, over holmes curve, over access to cf booth, through masborugh station - closed access to main line

Records from quail track diagrams 2 eastern

Runningman

10-11-2008, 22:38

Well described bus man ! Must find time to have a walk around the Beighton area and observe the layout myself.

Steelyblade

13-11-2008, 11:06

There was a colour slide of an A1 at Sheffield Midland in BR days for sale on ebay about a year ago, it was on a stopping train from Nottingham and the photographer had travelled on the train, circa 1962.

A4s were rare visitors too. Modern Railways (previously Trains Illustrated) has a picture of A4 60021 Wild Swan entering the station on a Newcastle-Bristol train on October 9 1963, it reportedly worked as far as Derby (vol. Dec. 1963 p.421/3). They described the event as 'unprecedented'.

I saw A4 Sparrow Hawk passing Millhouses Park light engine in the late fifties - so thanks for the mention of NE based locos going up to the triangle at Dore & Totley to turn, that explains the sighting, a mystery solved!

Rowlinson

13-11-2008, 19:34

After Millhouses shed closed in December 1961 quite few A1s and A3s worked through Sheffield on North East to South West trains. I presume they usually changed locos at Derby although there were some reports of them working through to Birmingham New St. The bad winter of 62/63 produced quite a number of these workings.Good morning ' Anoracks ' and a big thank you to bus man for his info re ' Tornado ' arriving in Sheffield last night. Amazed at the number of folks there, yes, nostalgia is still alive and lets hope it continues.

What a stirring sight that was of a magnificent looking beast of a steam loco coming into platform 1 ! An initial smile at the sight of a web address on the side of a loco tender.
The sound of the whistle and those blasts of steam, what memories.

From memory I can't remember an A1 ever coming into the Midland. Confirmation please from someone. I saw a number of V2's coming off the York - Bristol, which then went light engine up to Totley Cutting for reversal.

Had the wife with me and couldn't get her to understand that after arrival at Barrow Hill, the engine would be taken off to proceed out front first !

A question please which arose when I was explaining to the wife how the Tornado would get from the Midland to Barrow Hill and then back towards Rotherham.

Is the curve still in situ from the Sheffield - Rotherham line onto the Old Road and if so is it still in use ?

bus man

16-11-2008, 16:22

Evening anoraks the following pictures will almost certainly cause some of you to spill your dandelion and burdock out and possibly choke on your spangles or drop your ABC into a puddle

PHOTO A
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/?action=view&current=COMPACT3182.jpg

PHOTO B
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/?action=view&current=COMPACT3184.jpg

PHOTO C
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/?action=view&current=COMPACT3190.jpg

PHOTO D
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/?action=view&current=COMPACT3186.jpg

PHOTO E
http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o24/TRAMMANN/?action=view&current=COMPACT3173.jpg

Suspect you will be able to caption the photos as you will know what the bits are photo E is next to the steps from the south end of archer road next to guylees old building

hillsbro

16-11-2008, 18:35

My goodness - it's enough to make you cry into your Lyons fruit pie (they cost 8d from the "refreshment rooms" and made a good dessert after your mum's egg sandwiches were retrieved from the duffel bag). As it happens, this afternoon Mrs hillsbro and I walked from Sainsbury's along Archer Road to Abbeydale Road, and I was explaining to her about the old Millhouses & Ecclesall station, and where the shed was. She seemed to be interested (bless her; she's a good lass) but I was in a different world, where an ex-L.M.S. tank engine on a local train from Chinley would arrive at Platform 1 at the station and three or four boys in short trousers (fresh from copping a "Clan" on the "Night Sleeper" working) would climb into one of the ex-London surburban coaches for their 3d. ride into Sheffield Midland...

Runningman

16-11-2008, 20:23

Evening Anoracks, the memories keep flowing.

I can laugh about it now. As a youngster, used to go to Archer Rd on a Sunday and wonder why on earth nothing ran on the up and down London, then someone told little innocent me that engineering work on Sundays diverted traffic on to the Old Road.

Amazing how word got round on a Sunday morning about the appearance of a Clan or whatever from the night sleeper on Millhouses Shed.

Loved to see a Beyer Garrat on the Totley cutting, pulling what seemed like a mile of trucks.

Vaguely remember seeing what must have been green coloured Southern stock at the Victoria and where on earth did those strange loco names such as Mons and Zeebrugge come from.

The magic of Crewe, all those what seemed like giant locos and by heck one of them was called City of Sheffield.

Spotting at Blast lane with a choice of locos from 2 regions.

Catching the train from Heeley with my Dad to see the Blades play at Barnsley and Huddersfield.

Coming home from Bolton after seeing the Blades win in the cup and delayed at Manchester for 2 hours whilst they changed from steam to electric.

Going to Bury to see the Blades and delayed for an hour at Totley. When we got to Bury, everyone running through the streets and we still missed most of the first half.

Come on lads, some memories from what I have just mentioned.

CHAIRBOY

16-11-2008, 21:15

"Vaguely remember seeing what must have been green coloured Southern stock at the Victoria and where on earth did those strange loco names such as Mons and Zeebrugge come from?" - Asks Runningman.

Somme, Jutland, Ypres, Marne et al - WW1 sites methinks.

hillsbro

16-11-2008, 21:15

...and where on earth did those strange loco names such as Mons and Zeebrugge come from.

First World War battles. Who said trainspotting isn't educational...?

mikeG

17-11-2008, 08:42

Used to go to the Totley triangle some Saturdays. Saw Patriot Derbyshire Yeomanry there as well as the Garretts. To see Clans, Scots, Brits we'd go to Leeds City or get the electric to Manchester London Rd. Couple of trips to Crewe. Grandparents lived just outside Rhyl. Not far from the main line. On a summer Saturday the excursion trains from Yorkshire, Lancashire and the Midlands used to stream up - maybe 12-15 an hour. Mostly LMR engines but occasionally a B1. There was a 'land cruise' train which went from Rhyl through Rhuddlan, Bala, to the coast then back to Rhyl via Afonwen, Conway. Used to see GWR locos on these trains. To vary things we'd have a Saturday trip to Donny or Retford. Great days.

Bishop

18-11-2008, 18:08

I am currently building a model railway, and I am interested in any photos available of the Darnall engine shed. I have a few but I still need more.
Can anyone help please?

bus man

18-11-2008, 18:54

Sorry I dont have any

Bassman62

18-11-2008, 19:06

I have an LNER pencil (unsharpend) that belonged to my maternal Grandfather who was a driver at Darnall loco sheds.
I also have mt Great Uncle's 1878 birth certificate, under occupation of father it said 'Engine Driver'.
Both my Grandfathers and two of my uncles were drivers, my uncle Stan drove A4s through Retford I believe.

hillsbro

18-11-2008, 20:55

I am currently building a model railway, and I am interested in any photos available of the Darnall engine shed. I have a few but I still need more.
Can anyone help please?

I imagine you have seen the photo on the picturesheffield.com site, but here's a link anyway: http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=v01886

Bishop

19-11-2008, 11:18

[QUOTE=hillsbro;4323357]I imagine you have seen the photo on the picturesheffield.com site, but here's a link anyway: [QUOTE]

I have that one thankyou plus a couple of others that I got off the web, but I would still like to get more.
Thanks

Bishop

19-11-2008, 11:22

[QUOTE=Bassman62;4322804]I have an LNER pencil (unsharpend) that belonged to my maternal Grandfather who was a driver at Darnall loco sheds.
[QUOTE]
My grandfather used to live very close to the sheds and my sister and I used to go and watch the trains from the driveway into the sheds per the photo that "HILLSBRO" sent a link to. Many times the men who worked in the sheds used to take us in and show us around. Have a lot of fond memories about my train spotting days as a young lad in Darnall.

crookes

20-11-2008, 00:53

The back copy of Steam Days Magazine (March 2008 - £3-75p) has a 16 page article on Sheffield railway sheds. Don't know anything more than that.

bus man

20-11-2008, 17:37

The back copy of Steam Days Magazine (March 2008 - £3-75p) has a 16 page article on Sheffield railway sheds. Don't know anything more than that.

Thank you very much for that however , if you look at the title of the this thread ...................

P.Johnson

21-11-2008, 19:55

Having recently come across this thread and reading through all 190 entries to date I am prompted to bore everyone else with my spotting reminiscences from the early sixties.
I was introduced to train spotting in the summer of 1959, when I was invited by a friend to join him on a trip to the Midland station. Having purchased platform tickets we went onto platform 1 where a down express was waiting, headed by Jubilee 45609 "Gilbert and Ellis Islands". I absorbed the vision of the green loco and its nameplate and was hooked. I had bought my first ABC before we went home and was back on the station the next day. I soon learnt the routine of a day's spotting at the Midland Station. The morning session ended after the passage of the southbound (up?) Devonian (12.00) on platform 8 and the down Waverley (12.33) on platform 1.
It was then time for a brisk walk to Victoria Station where we would wait by the railings at the top of the Wicker lift for the arrival of the Brit hauled boat train (12.49pm). My 1958 shed book suggests that all the East Anglian Brits were allocated to Norwich (none at Stratford) except for 70035 Rudyard Kipling which was shedded at that time at March. I suspect they may have later dispersed to other sheds as I would have thought that the boat train,originating at Harwich (Parkestone Quay) would have been an Ipswich working.
After the boat train we had the choice of waiting for the 2.15pm arrival of the Sheffield Pullman (midday return working of the Master Cutler stock) from Kings Cross behind an EE Type 4 (D200 series), a novelty at that time, or a quick return to the Midland for the up Thames Clyde at 1.30pm. The afternoon, which might include a quick trip to Millhouses to bunk the shed (some times armed only with a platform ticket :nono:)culminated in the up workings of the Thames Clyde (3.36pm) and Waverley (4.38pm) and finally the arrival of the Devonian in Platform 1 at 4.48pm (if it wasn't late making us late home for tea) on its northbound working. (The timings are courtesy of a winter 1959/60 ER timetable, not my memory.)
In between these titled expresses of course there was a steady diet of black fives, Jubilees, Patriots, rebuilt and unrebuilt, and Scots throughout the day along with the lesser classes (as we then thought) on the locals to Barnsley, Leeds and the Hope Valley so we were kept well entertained through the day.

I have in pride of place on my study wall a print of a painting by the late Sheffield artist Peter Owen Jones titled "Back to Work" depicting Jubilee 45685 Barfleur, viewed from Sheaf Street, departing from platform 1 past Sheffield North Junction signal box on the northbound working of the Devonian, the station clock showing the correct departure time of 4.54. It must have been mid week! A couple are walking along Sheaf Street carrying a case and looking as if they are returning from their holidays -back to work!
An Ivatt class 2 2-6-2 tank sits in platform 3 at the head of what must be the 5.28pm to Cudworth. What memories this picture evokes.
Before I finish I'll jump forward in time to 1963 when the Carlisle Clans visited Millhouses on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays. As I remember it this was due to the diversion of an overnight Glasgow - London sleeper from the West Coast main line during electrificatioon works. As this train had no station stops on the Midland division, it by-passed Leeds station where Carlisle locos were normally replaced by Midland division locos, so the Carlisle Clan or sometimes a Jubilee with its large cab side numerals worked through to a point on the "backline"from Rotherham to Chesterfiled near Beighton, where it was replaced by a Millhouses loco. The Carlisle loco spent the day on Millhouses shed and was sometimes used on the 4.30pm from Midland to Chinley (and the appropriate return), before working back to Carlisle on the return sleeper that night. I'm sure somewhat out there knows a lot more detail than this. The spotting fraternity at High Storrs school received intelligence from a lad who lived in Millhouses and went home for lunch, as to which loco was on the working, so at 4.10, on release from lessons we made our way (rapidly) downhill to Millhouses to bunk the shed. If the loco wasn't there we would check the roster board to confirm that it was on the 4.30 Chinley and then wait on the shed path to watch it climbing the bank for its 4.40 pause at Millhouses station. I appear to have copped 72006/7 and 8 (Clans Mackenzie,Mackintosh and Macleod) on this working together with at least one Carlisle Jubilee (probably 45728 Defiance).
Thats enough rambling on for now. I'll have another go later if any one's interested.

hillsbro

21-11-2008, 20:34

....Thats enough rambling on for now. I'll have another go later if any one's interested.

Yes indeed - more reminiscences will be welcome I'm sure!

I well remember the "Clans" at Millhouses between overnight sleeper workings, though living at the other end of town I didn't go there regularly. I didn't know the details of the WCML diversion and how this led to the Carlisle loco being stabled at Millhouses (incidentally, it was a little earlier than 1963 - Millhouses shed closed in January 1962, and I think it was late 1961 when I copped three Carlisle locos. on the night sleeper). Two of those I copped were just a little disappointing - on one occasion it was a Jubilee (45697 Achilles) and on the other occasion it was Clan Stewart. I was a slightly disappointed that the name of the clan didn't begin with "Mac"! But Clan Mackenzie made up for this the following week.

I was always under the impression that the Harwich boat train was pulled by a Stratford loco, but I cannot be sure. I do have a note of seeing 70012 John of Gaunt on this working in June 1960.

"Scots" and "Patriots" were hardly ever seen in Sheffield until they began to be displaced by diesels on the West Coast Main Line around 1960. I remember seeing my first "Scot" at Matlock Bath in 1958 - it was 46164 The Artists Rifleman. I had seen my first main-line diesels on a day-trip to Crewe in 1958 - the brand-new D5 Cross Fell and D6 Whernside, running in tandem on a siding by the works and visible from the north end of Platform 4.

Memories....

oldrowley

24-11-2008, 08:42

Splendid thread chaps; bring on the egg sandwiches and Tizer. There is a nice site for Jubilee aficianados here
http://www.jubilees.co.uk/photos/45609b.html

hillsbro

24-11-2008, 12:08

mikeG

24-11-2008, 12:23

The last time I went spotting was the school summer hols in 1959. So, unfortunately I missed out on the appearance of Clans, Scots and Pats. Apart from (as I mentioned in an earlier thread) Pat Derbyshire Yeomanry which I think was shedded at Derby.By February, I was working for Barclays Bank in Hillsborough so I couldn't really leave early to go in search of the 4.30 the Chinley. I may have seen a black 5 on the Chinley line but it was mainly Consuls and standard tanks. Maybe the odd compound. Saw Beyer Garretts in the cutting and maybe 9Fs. I doesn't seem 50 years ago but it certainly is.

CHAIRBOY

24-11-2008, 12:48

I seem to recall a tank 41209 doing a lot of work on the Chinley line and often being coupled "the wrong way" as it came past Millhouses on the "Down Manx".
I didn't invent the term "Shaggers' Specials" but I heard the trains to the Peak District called that because of the rolling stock used, especially on the Sundays. I'm TOLD the reason was, that the carriages just had two doors, no corridors, such that if a couple got that six-berth to themselves at Chinley, they could be 'lucky' before it got to the next stop!

oldrowley

24-11-2008, 17:26

Hi, oldrowley - that's an excellent photo of "Gilbert and Lettuce" as we used to call it! It must surely have been taken at Millhouses. The rest of the Jubilee photos are also first-class. When Millhouses shed closed, part of my childhood died with it, but I remained a keen trainspotter until after I left school in 1966, and for years afterwards I used to gaze wistfully out of the window on train journeys. I still have my duffel bag somewhere...

Hi Hillsbro , Looking at the Steam Days article which of course is the subject of this thread I see that the superb colour picture of 45609 is in fact in the magazine also and the location is confirmed as Millhouses shed in March 1958. Incidentally, we didn't call it Gilbert and Lettuce Islands cos I was at King Ted's!

hillsbro

24-11-2008, 17:27

Yes - Ivatt tank engines 41209, 41245 and 41246 were shedded at Millhouses and often worked Hope Valley line trains. 41209 was regularly seen doing odd shunting operations at the Midland Station.

Hope Valley line locals typically consisted of three or four ex-London suburban coaches with no corridors, and apart from the "opportunities" that such coaches presented, they were a lot more comfortable than the noisy, boneshaking railcars that replaced them.

CHAIRBOY

24-11-2008, 17:47

Hope Valley line locals typically consisted of three or four ex-London suburban coaches with no corridors, and apart from the "opportunities" that such coaches presented, they were a lot more comfortable than the noisy, boneshaking railcars that replaced them.

Those coaches were also used on the football trains from Manchester Central to Old Trafford - people really packed in like cattle wagons - but it was only for five minutes or so. Do you remember the leather straps with holes in that opened or adjusted the windows - like the straps at the barbers!?

hillsbro

24-11-2008, 18:00

CHAIRBOY

24-11-2008, 18:23

Yes - those leather straps. You can see them on a dozen preserved lines up and down the country. Release the strap, let the window fall down a few holes on the strap, lean out and smell the smoke! But watch out for tunnels...

Bitte nicht hinauslehnen! I remember arching my hand, like a cupped blinker, to have a peep down the line. When you got a speck in your eye, it felt like a lump. It seems that we've all been there?

CHAIRBOY

24-11-2008, 18:58

Runningman

24-11-2008, 19:27

hillsbro

24-11-2008, 19:35

Bitte nicht hinauslehnen! I remember arching my hand, like a cupped blinker, to have a peep down the line. When you got a speck in your eye, it felt like a lump. It seems that we've all been there?

... and "Ne pas se pencher au dehors", "E pericoloso sporgersi..." - yes, we've all been there! To say nothing of "no drinking water" - this slightly-incorrect English form, a too-direct translation of Kein Trinkwasser, survived for several decades on post-war German trains.

I did sometimes lean out of a window in a tunnel (Woodhead for example) but, in this regard, it's a good thing I can read French. Travelling from Brive-la-Gaillarde to Limoges in September 1977, I took the trouble to read a notice chalked (in ultra-polite terms, addressing Messieurs les voyageurs...) on a board at Brive station. It warned passengers not to lean out of the window when going through the tunnel just south of Limoges station. I found out why when my train entered the tunnel - I gingerly peered through an open window and saw something like steel scaffolding lining the tunnel, which seemed to come within a few inches of the train.

Nowadays we ride in sealed trains in air-conditioned comfort (assuming the air-conditioning is working). Leaning out of the window was a form of mischief that was part of a trainspotting trip in the 1950s/60s. Also, you could see the signals and maybe analyse what had gone wrong if the train was delayed.

The old days...

hillsbro

24-11-2008, 19:39

Not sure if this has previously been touched upon? Seeing 45609 Gilbert and Ellice Islands reminded me of 45610 Gold Coast which had its named changed to Ghana at Midland Station, one Saturday morning about 11am if I recall correctly? Did anybody else go to that ceremony? Year anyone?

See post #18. If they were prompt in renaming 45610, the year would have been 1957. At least, that is when the Gold Coast became independent as Ghana (as any stamp collector knows!)

P.Johnson

24-11-2008, 19:55

On a DMU heading for a days spotting at Doncaster, driving rain. See who can stand it longest went the challenge. I finally gave up to find the others, dry as a bone standing behind me laughing. Still, past Conisborough and we'll soon be looking for the first siting of the "stand by" and a day's real spotting. A4s,1s,2 and 3s, V2s and all the other classes. Oh, and the original Deltic. A visit to the works gate a climb on someone's bike to peer over the wall. A while on Jimmy's bridge and bunk the shed. The Elizabethan, The Flying Scotsman, Talisman, Tees Tyne Pullman, Queen of Scots, Yorkshire Pullman, Fred Olsen Lines, Anglo Scottish Car Carrier,the plant stream. Those were the days! My first streak 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley, my second 60030 Golden Fleece(I still have my Hornbytwo rail model from the Talisman set). The last streak I copped, 60004 William Whitelaw, ex-works on a running in turn arriving from Leeds and later to haul me back to Victoria on the evening Hull- Liverpool.
Memories!
I also saw a streak in Midland on the York- Bristol working one evening. I sure it wasn't Wild Swan, my memory suggest 60010 Dominion of Canada or 60012 Commonwealth of Australia.
The Scots started to appear in Sheffield soon after I had started spotting, but there were some unrebuilt Pats working from Bristol prior to this and were regularly seen, often double heading with Black Fives or Jubs on the heavy summer trains from the South West. 45504 Royal Signals, 45506 The Royal Pioneer Corps and 45519 Lady Godiva were at Bristol Barrow Rd in 1958.
Thanks for the Jubilee link Oldrowley, I have printed a copy of the Millhouses photo of Gilbert and Ellis Islands and it now pinned on my notice board.

oldrowley

24-11-2008, 20:07

Na den oldrowley !

Came on the PC tonight to do some work and finished up spending ages looking at those marvellous Jubilee photos !!

Thanks for that, what memories.

Interested to see that Galatea is being restored. Looks a long way off completion, anyone with knowledge of what is happening to her and when she is likely to be in steam again.

Glad you enjoyed the pictures Runningman. If you go to the following link relating to the West Coast Railway open day at Carnforth this year and scroll down, you will come to some pics of Galatea under restoration (These may well be the same ones as on the Jubilee site). The photographer suggests it will be two years at least before steams again. There are other superb photos of the open day to look at of course.
http://john-robinson.fotopic.net/c1551456.html

CHAIRBOY

24-11-2008, 20:22

On a DMU heading for a days spotting at Doncaster, driving rain. See who can stand it longest went the challenge. I finally gave up to find the others, dry as a bone standing behind me laughing. Still, past Conisborough and we'll soon be looking for the first siting of the "stand by" and a day's real spotting. A4s,1s,2 and 3s, V2s and all the other classes. Oh, and the original Deltic. A visit to the works gate a climb on someone's bike to peer over the wall. A while on Jimmy's bridge and bunk the shed. The Elizabethan, The Flying Scotsman, Talisman, Tees Tyne Pullman, Queen of Scots, Yorkshire Pullman, Fred Olsen Lines, Anglo Scottish Car Carrier,the plant stream. Those were the days! My first streak 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley, my second 60030 Golden Fleece(I still have my Hornbytwo rail model from the Talisman set). The last streak I copped, 60004 William Whitelaw, ex-works on a running in turn arriving from Leeds and later to haul me back to Victoria on the evening Hull- Liverpool.
Memories!

"Stand by", I'd forgotten about that. Two other trains to add to your list, The Aberdonian and The White Rose. The latter departed from Doncaster, southbound, about fifteen minutes before the Sheffield train and it was always chaotic on the platform with wedding parties showering confetti.
I think the Aberdonian hurtled down the middle line - no stopping.

hillsbro

24-11-2008, 20:51

... we didn't call it Gilbert and Lettuce Islands cos I was at King Ted's!

My pals (Chris Gilson, Paul Jeffries, Irving Smith) and I were at King Ted's as well. I'm sure we lowered the tone of this distinguished institution...

oldrowley

24-11-2008, 21:58

My pals (Chris Gilson, Paul Jeffries, Irving Smith) and I were at King Ted's as well. I'm sure we lowered the tone of this distinguished institution...

You guys would be 1959 intake then? We are well represented - Michael G would be 1954 I think and I was 1953.Was Fat Nat still in charge in your day?

Please excuse 'off topic' subject folks.

hillsbro

25-11-2008, 08:12

Whilst repeating an apology for being "off topic" - yes, we were in the 1959 intake. Fat Nat was still in charge, but in poor health (though he could still wield a cane with gusto). He retired in 1965 and died in 1967, aged 63.

There was quite a clique of trainspotters at King Ted's (we called ourselves ferro-equologists) and we would often be planning our next trip to Doncaster or Crewe when we were supposed to be listening to Bert Towers explaining the wonders of igneous rocks, or Twiff going through the intricacies of French verbs...

There was even an informal K.E.S. trainspotting "club" but it was derailed when some of its members became more interested in girls (cf. Totley tunnel and ex-L.M.S. suburban stock...)

Bassman62

25-11-2008, 08:56

CHAIRBOY

25-11-2008, 09:20

You guys would be 1959 intake then? We are well represented - Michael G would be 1954 I think and I was 1953.Was Fat Nat still in charge in your day?

Please excuse 'off topic' subject folks.

http://oldedwardians.org.uk/nlc/photos/54.1(1).html

Front row, this has to be Ian Wright of Railway Memorabilia fame?

Hopman

25-11-2008, 10:28

http://oldedwardians.org.uk/nlc/photos/54.1(1).html

Front row, this has to be Ian Wright of Railway Memorabilia fame?

I'm sure it is Ian Wright. I remember him teaching me at school.

Hopman

26-11-2008, 09:48

There was quite a clique of trainspotters at King Ted's (we called ourselves ferro-equologists)

I thought the word was ferroequinologist.

mikeG

26-11-2008, 12:15

There's 4 from Lydgate Lane in the 1954 1(1) input.I'm on front row in the 1(2) input which I'd put on here if I could.

hillsbro

26-11-2008, 12:46

I thought the word was ferroequinologist.

Quite right - many people refer to ferroequinologists, but thereby hangs a tale.... We decided that, as the suffix -ology refers to "a study of", it was more logical to study a noun rather than an adjective, that is a "ferro-equus" rather than a "ferro-equinus", the latter term being somewhat adjectival...:P....I seem to recall that someone (it was probably "Tich" Taylor) opined that, as there is more to trainspotting than "iron horses", it might be better to us an all-encompassing, adjectival form. We didn't talk to him all the way to York and most of the way back... Someone actually thought of asking the venerable Dr Jameson about this, but we knew only too well that he didn't approve of adding Greek suffixes to Latin roots. We also remembered only too well his lengthy assertion that, according to the rules of classical Greek, a stamp collector should be an atelophilist rather than a philatelist...

hillsbro

26-11-2008, 13:02

There's 4 from Lydgate Lane in the 1954 1(1) input.I'm on front row in the 1(2) input which I'd put on here if I could.

Maybe here: http://nlc.oldedwardians.org.uk/photos/54.1(2).html

mikeG

26-11-2008, 15:54

Well done. There's just 2 of us from Lydgate Lane on this. I'm third from the left on front row. No doubt my quiff was brylcreemed.

P.Johnson

27-11-2008, 19:00

Sorry to butt in on you King Ted's chaps, being a High Storrs OB, but Irving Smith and his brother Robert were fellow members of St. Mary's Walkley church choir. Their dad Roy was assistant organist and as an auditor for BR and thus eligible for free travel would sometimes accompany us on trips to York. We formed St Mary's Railway Enthusiasts Society, members Irving ,Robert, myself, John Staley and John Laver, solely for the purpose of applying for permits. I recall trips to Crewe works and Doncaster plant.
We also had a society at High Storrs and managed to arrange a couple of trips, one to all the main London area sheds (that was a long day - the M1 ended south of Leicester) and one to the Leeds area - I recall the coach just scraping under a low bridge approaching Farnley, almost losing its air horns off the roof. An other marathon trip we arranged unofficially using the school society to obtain the permits. It was by minibus to the Newcastle area, setting off from Fitzalan Square very early in the morning and returning just in time to catch the "whistle buses" home at midnight. The last shed visit that day (Thornaby) was completed after dark and all with just one driver!

hillsbro

27-11-2008, 21:23

That was a good idea - forming a society so as to apply for permits. Some of us at King Ted's were members of the Warwickshire Railway Society, which offered some good shed tours - I remember a trip to the South Wales sheds (Canton, Radyr, Ebbw Junction, Pontypool Road, Severn Tunnel Junction etc.) in November 1965 and a long weekend to Scotland in 1966, staying two nights in a fleapit in Glasgow (but it was handy for Pollockshields East station).

I remember that individuals could "do" Crewe Works by applying in advance and making a small donation to the Crewe Railway Charity Fund. I know Irving Smith well; apart from being in the same form at KES we are both HSBC retirees and he lives near me in Wadsley. I remember one memorable day trip to Crewe in 1961 - Irving Smith, Alan Siddall, Tich Taylor and me. Lots of good locos; the only one that all four of us copped was 46230 Duchess of Buccleuch on the down Royal Scot. Wonderful.

P.Johnson

28-11-2008, 11:00

Another tour I went on with John Laver was, a Clan hauled tour organised by one of the national societies (probably SLS) visiting Wolverhampton, Stafford and Crewe, double headed with a Hall for part of the trip. I have somewhere a photo of a line of Kings in store at Stafford Road. Someone else may remember more detail, but I do recall that we were shuttled from Midland to Rotherham Masborough by DMU and the tour took the back road direct to Chesterfield, the only time I have travelled that route in its entirety. The name Alan Siddall rings a bell, I think he probably joined us at St Mary's. Did he join the Merchant Navy?

hillsbro

28-11-2008, 12:13

Sorry - it was Ian Siddall; I had confused him with Alan Taylor, another trainspotter, but it was Ian who went with us to Crewe. He is third from the left on the back row here: http://oldedwardians.org.uk/nlc/photos/62.4GL.html

bus man

28-11-2008, 12:15

Ive looked at

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/

from 1950 - 1968 at all the SLS tours but cant find one to match the above if anyone else want to try then please do so the site doesnt have as far as i can see a search facility which is a pity..

The tour around the 27th Sep 1963 to the north east looks interersting

Hopman

28-11-2008, 14:42

Quite right - many people refer to ferroequinologists, but thereby hangs a tale.... We decided that, as the suffix -ology refers to "a study of", it was more logical to study a noun rather than an adjective, that is a "ferro-equus" rather than a "ferro-equinus", the latter term being somewhat adjectival...:P....I seem to recall that someone (it was probably "Tich" Taylor) opined that, as there is more to trainspotting than "iron horses", it might be better to us an all-encompassing, adjectival form. We didn't talk to him all the way to York and most of the way back... Someone actually thought of asking the venerable Dr Jameson about this, but we knew only too well that he didn't approve of adding Greek suffixes to Latin roots. We also remembered only too well his lengthy assertion that, according to the rules of classical Greek, a stamp collector should be an atelophilist rather than a philatelist...

I suppose to be strictly faithful to Latin, the term ferroequindiscipulus might be used.
It's almost as long as the station sign at Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobyllllantisilog ogogoch.

hillsbro

28-11-2008, 16:27

I suppose to be strictly faithful to Latin, the term ferroequindiscipulus might be used.
It's almost as long as the station sign at Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobyllllantisilog ogogoch.
Yes indeed! It's a pity that there isn't a station at Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapiki maungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu (that's my "party piece" when in the Antipodes...).:)

I just learned that the Forum has a limit of 50 letters per word (hence the unintentioned space after "...tisilog"* and "...piki") You live and learn!.:cool:

* at risk of being ultra-pedantic, it should be "...tisiliog"

P.Johnson

28-11-2008, 16:41

Thanks Bus Man you pointed me in the right direction. The tour in question was in fact the 24th March 1963, Derbyshire Railway Society, Clan - King - Hall Railtour

Having been postponed from 27th January 1963 Kings were no longer available so the itinery was:-

Loco(s) Route
72008 Leeds City - Rotherham - Sheffield (omitted) - Derby - Bordesley Jn - Tyseley
7929 + 72008 Tyseley - Oxley (2)
7929 +? 72008 Oxley - ?Wellington - Market Drayton - Nantwich? - Crewe
47??? Crewe - Crewe Works
??? Crewe Works - Crewe
72008 Crewe - Derby - Rotherham - Leeds City

bus man

01-12-2008, 18:19

GENTLEMEN

the following link

http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=4951&st=0&#entry28610

takes you into the sheffield history fourm and shows a photo which shows two lads trainspotting at what they believe is nunnery .

Unfortunatley to see the photo you will have to register with sheffield forum however, it could bring back some memories to some of you. You never know it may be someone on here

oldrowley

01-12-2008, 20:19

[QUOTE=bus man;4371511]GENTLEMEN

the following link

http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=4951&st=0&#entry28610

takes you into the sheffield history fourm and shows a photo which shows two lads trainspotting at what they believe is nunnery .

Unfortunatley to see the photo you will have to register with sheffield forum however, it could bring back some memories to some of you. You never know it may be someone on here[/QUOTE

Hi Busman,
The link direct is
http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/cgi-bin/zoom.pl?picture=http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/v01883.jpg

(I am told we should use the link rather than the photo for copyright reasons)

bus man

01-12-2008, 20:25

Right ok doesnt matter how you get too it but have a look

hillsbro

04-12-2008, 16:06

Whilst scouring the depths of my hard drive I found this picture of Millhouses & Ecclesall station:

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/twigmore/MillhousesStation.jpg

I don't remember where I found it, but it is evidently an early postcard view. The photo perhaps dates from the 1920s/30s. As far as I remember, the station hadn't changed much by the late 1950s when my spotter pals and I, having "bunked" Millhouses shed, used to buy a 3d. ticket at the booking office and then catch a local service (from Chinley via the Hope Valley line) from the platform at the far right to the Midland Station, stopping at Heeley on the way. I do remember the clock on the side of the rather nicely-designed building housing the booking office etc., and the PASSENGERS MUST CROSS THE LINE BY THE BRIDGE sign.

bus man

04-12-2008, 16:16

Might be earlier if my eyes arnt decieving me there are white dots on the home signals as obosed to the white line , when did the dot get replaced by the line ?

Think Ive seen that view before see if i can find the book and read the caption , any way its a good photo

THANKS

Isnt it strange to think that the telegraph pole on our right used to link with further down the line at the next bridge all these years latter the other poll is still there gaurding the entrance to shed to stop you lot getting in he he he

(See post # 177 photo E for photo)

hillsbro

04-12-2008, 16:54

It could well be an earlier view. It dates from after about 1902 (?) when the station was enlarged. Often it's possible to judge the age of a photo by the style of clothing worn by people in the photo, but I suppose that in the pre-war period, railway uniforms didn't change as much as fashions generally.

At the far right of the photo you can just see the end of the canopy over a platform building - presumably a waiting room; I had forgotten this, though I imagine there would have been a platform waiting room at a station that must have been quite busy in the first half of the 20th century.

Oh - the telegraph pole. Even these belong to a past age, in these days of fibre-optic cables and satellite communications. How times change...

A rather nice, early view of the Midland Station is on offer at eBay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MIDLAND-STATION-SHEFFIELD-RARE-UNUSED-FINE-CONDITION_W0QQitemZ250336934221QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ UK_Collectables_Postcards_MJ?hash=item250336934221&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

bus man

04-12-2008, 17:47

This is a shot of a pencil that belonged to my Maternal Grandfather who died in 1950, he worked out of Darnall Loco sheds until his death at the age of 56.
I know it's slightly off topic; just thought it may be of interest to you railway buffs.

http://i36.tinypic.com/105pglg.jpg

As the op this is not off topic : Iam very pleased that the thread as opened up to produce a very very good thread wonder if it will get to being a year old ?

Texas

04-12-2008, 17:54

CHAIRBOY

04-12-2008, 18:18

NEWS ITEM from Sheffield page. http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=428626

bus man

04-12-2008, 18:24

Please be aware that this loco - the class 40 - is in a odd livery its large logo livery ie BR blue but with the massive BR double arrow and large loco numbers - that would have helped you when you were trying to see the numbers through the railings

Bassman62

04-12-2008, 19:17

As the op this is not off topic : Iam very pleased that the thread as opened up to produce a very very good thread wonder if it will get to being a year old ?

Thanks for that, I've taken the liberty of attaching a shot from my 'Great Uncles' birth certificate showing that my Great grandfather was an engine driver in 1878 both on my Grandfathers were drivers as were two of my uncles, my paternal Grandfather was brought out of retirement to drive during WWII.

Sorry about the shot quality but as you can see I'm no David Bailey

http://i38.tinypic.com/ancy0z.jpg

PS wonder if the Queen Vic Stamp is worth anything?

hillsbro

04-12-2008, 19:23

Regarding the starter signal in your photo hillsboro, the arm is lowered. On later signals the arm was raised. And what is the signal on the downside, a signal to go into a side road perhaps? Later maneuvers would have used a 'dolly'. I don't remember the backboards either, but I remember the clock.

Quite right - in more recent times, "lower quadrant" signals were unusual on the L.M.S., though they were retained by the G.W.R. The signal on the down main line, behind the bridge, might be an ordinary section signal for the main line, though access to the shed would of course have been behind the photographer, to the right-hand side. Maybe there was a side-road from the main line into the shed yard, as well as from the "slow" down line on the far right.

Runningman

04-12-2008, 19:29

Mention has been made of the S&T pole still in situ at the top of the steps leading to 19b.
A little known fact for all you Anoracks, to which I expressed surprise upon hearing it.

Unlike the GPO and BT where all their wooden poles are subject to a cycle of testing for decay, I was told by a BR lad that their poles were never tested for decay. When you stick a piece of wood in the ground it will most definetly after a number of years decay and possibly fall down, especially when somebody is attempting to climb it. Do I presume that the ground into which all the S&T poles were inserted must have been extremely well drained ??

Remember once being on the Archer Road steps and their was an engineer aloft that pole, feeding copper wire through from wherever to wherever. He was there for what seemed hours and the length of copper provided must have been some distance.

Visited the Main Line Trust at Loughborough possibly 30 years ago to see a friend who was involved with the railway there. When they heard of my experience with the GPO they asked if I could assist in recreating the S&T network, that is wooden poles and copper wire.
Just give me a call I said, but alas nothing came of it.