Has anyone had a rogue dialer, run up a bill by diverting their internet without their permission?

I had £22 added by this con and my phone company NTL say they will not refund or do anything about it as its my responsibility, i have firewalls and virus checkers etc, but it still did not stop the 'rogue dialer' redialing its premium rate number without my permission.
It is a company in Pananma that is benefiting from this scam
i was told by NTL but they cannot do anything about it they say.
Does anyone have any advise where i stand or what to do?

Thanks in advance....i hope

Somebody I know got stung for much more on a BT line and BT ISP.

They always unplug the phone line now when they're not connected. It used to switch the computer on in the middle of the night and connect itself, whilst they were watching TV

My understanding is that there is very little you can do about it; just be careful what kind of sites you look on in future! :suspect: :thumbsup:

Welcome to the forum by the way!

K x

Would i be right in thinking that Broadband users are not susceptible to rogue diallers?.

I'm sure i read it somewhere!

Originally posted by vidster
Would i be right in thinking that Broadband users are not susceptible to rogue diallers?.

I'm sure i read it somewhere!

I would imagine so. Definately if through Telewest as that's not connected to phone line at all!

K x

There is a thread on this sort of thing here :

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14723&highlight=dialer

one of my posts has links to BT's site which offers some good advice :thumbsup:

Course best way round the dialer is to go to broadband :P

It cost me 200 pounds back in November :(
I was using a BT isp and BT phoneline, nothing they could do about it.

No idea how it got on my PC.

Ive got free broadband now so no risk :)

matt

A friend of mine who knows a lot more about computers than I do managed to disable a rogue dialer that got at my machine so as soon as it connected it disconnected. However for the couple of seconds it did manage to connect over a month it still cost me several pounds. Absolutely infuriated with the pesky thing as it was proving a pain to remove I went on to Broadband and so no more problem. When I was a broadband customer I scanned my machine and found four things with the 'search and destroy' that hadn't shown up before, I can only assume I had a very sneaky rogue dialer.

Originally posted by matthewluck
It cost me 200 pounds back in November :(
I was using a BT isp and BT phoneline, nothing they could do about it.

No idea how it got on my PC.

Ive got free broadband now so no risk :)

matt

It's unbelievably easy to install diallers, Malware and viruses.
One example:
The pop-up windows most people get.....You just press the red box in the corner to close the window, right?....WRONG!!!
I read that some people can actually hide a statement behind the picture in the pop-up ad. This statement states that by clicking the red button you are accepting their terms and conditions. Then the dialler etc... is installed on your system and there is nothing you can do about it because you have accepted their terms and conditions.

Whether this is true or not i don't know but if i have to close a window now i use Ctrl+W ! ;).

Originally posted by vidster
It's unbelievably easy to install diallers, Malware and viruses.
One example:
The pop-up windows most people get.....You just press the red box in the corner to close the window, right?....WRONG!!!
I read that some people can actually hide a statement behind the picture in the pop-up ad. This statement states that by clicking the red button you are accepting their terms and conditions. Then the dialler etc... is installed on your system and there is nothing you can do about it because you have accepted their terms and conditions.

Whether this is true or not i don't know but if i have to close a window now i use Ctrl+W ! ;).

that would clearly not be legally binding. But good luck taking a company in paraguay to court.

The easiest thing you can do is ask your phone provider to block premium rate numbers. This will stop you dialling them yourself, but for most people I doubt that's an issue.

Originally posted by vidster
.....You just press the red box in the corner to close the window, right?....WRONG!!!

Whether this is true or not i don't know but if i have to close a window now i use Ctrl+W ! ;).
I have seen lots of pop ups where they have an additional close button in the middle which could invoke some code and install a dialler.

I have this in my files. I think it came from a Sunday Times article.

HOW TO FIGHT DIAL UP SCAMS
First write to your telephone company (sample letter is below). For those who have already paid a disputed phone bill to a telephone provider, forms are available on-line at: www.dca.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/menus/ forms.htm. If you believe you have been defrauded by a dialler scam, and if your telephone company has forced you to pay a disputed charge, and if that charge is under £5,000, then download form N 1, follow the instructions on Notes for Claimant (N1A), get all your documentation together. and file a claim at your local county court.
Be sure to note: '1 am demanding this repayment because my telephone company, _______. plus its subcontractors, are in violation of crimes under UK law (including the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, sections 327. 328 and 329) and that, therefore, levying these charges against me, and collecting this money from me is illegal.'
Enclose all your documentation.
If you pay your telephone bill by direct debit, before filing a claim in county court, send a copy of that claim and all your documentation to your bank's branch manager.
In your covering letter, state: 'The debit charged to my account in the amount of £________, dated ________, includes illegally accumulated charges due to dialler fraud. I am asking that as required by statutes governing direct debits in the UK. you immediately reimburse these charges to me and charge back the telephone company for them.'
Because banks are already very aware of the UK money-laundering regulations. and their increased responsibilities to the Financial Services Authority. the better ones will refund the disputed amount post haste. That could lead to BT and others suing them - a messy business at best, turning the banks into national heroes for protecting their customers, while exposing BT and the others to even greater reputation at risk. If the bank refuses, you still have the county-court-claim option.


Dear Sirs/Madams
The charges on my telephone bill, enclosed, amounting to £____ are the result of an illegal use of my computer and constitute the proceeds of fraudulent activity by an unknown party. Your insistence on collecting this money may amount to an attempt to obtain property by deception, which is a violation of section 18 of the Theft Act 1968. It is additionally illegal for you, under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, to handle, transfer or arrange assets derived from
criminal conduct. By doing so, you may be in violation of sections 327 (Concealing etc), 328 (Arrangements) and 329 (Acquisition, Use and Possession) of criminal property. If you do not immediately cancel these charges levied against me, and instead insist on proceeding with trying to collect the proceeds of a criminal act, I will not only resist payment. but will file a formal complaint with my local police. A Copy of this letter, along with the necessary
documentation to support my claim, Is also being forwarded to my member of parliament.

Yours etc

Here's a little tip. Turn on the sound from your modem and learn to recognise the tone when its dialling your ISP.

Here's another tip. Patch Windows. Install (maintain and frequently run) virus and spyware scanners. Make sure your firewall is on and working. Be responsible with your machine in the same way that you're responsible with your car.

The best tip is to switch to a browser like Firefox or Opera. These are so far immune from the techniques that fraudulent websites use to install dialers.

Prevention is far better than cure.

Another way to avoid this is to go into the modem settings in control panel, and change the options for accessing an outside line to dial the first part of your ISP number. Then take that bit off the dial up configuration for your ISP.

That way, any rogue diallers dial something like 0845 0898 xxxxxxx

Worth a try I guess - I'm on broadband, and dont have a modem in my PC, so I'm not at risk from this particular nasty.

If you do have broadband please make sure your dialup modem still isn't plugged in like that pillock in the paper a few months back.....

This is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about here:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=300353#post300353

When most people said free compulsary training through leaflets or something was a bad idea.

...........and how right they were!

So everyone should learn the hard way about rogue dialers? trojans? spyware? wireless security? OK makes sense. hmm

I really cant see why all computers shouldn't come with a basic training leaflet that explained all these things and how to avoid the problems. As well as other important stuff. Rather than just a technical manual and a useless warranty.


edit-

I'll expain it again for people who don't understand.

A person buys PC, gets given leaflet, told must read as it will stop bad things happening, rogue dialers etc...

keep all your anti virus stuff updated,
i use adaware se,and if anything unusual happens/shows up then go onto one of their support forums and post a log of the scan,
its a fact of life im afraid,these scammers are scum ,and they know it,
JJ..

I got stung to the tune of £44.00 back in April 2004 when I was on the net without a firewall (what a wally...)

At the time, I remember my internet connection being disconnected and then reconnected but didn't think much of it. Checked my phone bill a few days later and there it was, 3 calls.

The phone company didn't want to know and told me to contact ICTIS, the telephone watchdog, so I sent off a complaint. And this was back in April.

When the rogue company finally got investigated and fined, it was near christmas. So from the details on the ICTIS website, I sent off a letter to the rogue company 'politely' asking for my money back. It was nice surprise to receive a cheque back for £51.00, 3 weeks later !!

The moral of the story is never to go on the net without a firewall !!

I unplug my computer each time I leave the house because of this. It happened to my friend as since NTL cust service was being so rude to him he used RegisteredCall.com to get some compensation for how rude and unhelpful the staf were - only 25quid but worth it.

Thanks for the replies so far, seems i can do little, but
its good to know people are writing in letting me know about rogue dialers and offering advise


THANKS

Having unlimited free broadband still means you are succeptable. The rogue dialers disconect and then dial another number.

Use firefox, use Adaware. Use Zonealarm, or try this hijack this (http://www.hijackthis.de)

Originally posted by robbie
Having unlimited free broadband still means you are succeptable. The rogue dialers disconect and then dial another number.

Use firefox, use Adaware. Use Zonealarm, or try this hijack this (http://www.hijackthis.de)

But be VERY careful what you delete using HijackThis ;)

Originally posted by robbie
Having unlimited free broadband still means you are succeptable. The rogue dialers disconect and then dial another number.

Use firefox, use Adaware. Use Zonealarm, or try this hijack this (http://www.hijackthis.de)

broadband doesn't use a dial up line.

A bit late for some, but BT will be doing sommat about rogue diallers in future - see here :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4351073.stm

An investigation is under way into whether British Telecom is legally allowed to make customers who have been victims of a multi-million-pound internet fraud pay their bill.

The Crown Prosecution Service is considering whether or not BT is in breach of the Proceeds of Crime Act by demanding payment from customers caught by "rogue diallers" - software installed by hackers on to computers which then dials up premium rate numbers.

Article in
Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/06/nbt06.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/04/06/ixhome.html) .